Need advice - Taking care of my mother.
April 8, 2013 9:41 PM   Subscribe

What should I do about my mother? I don't get along with her or like her, nor can I afford to have her live with me. Yet she has nowhere to go. I'm in Canada. What are my options?

My mom is 63 and still able to work. She has a hard time finding jobs - she's been a live-in caregiver/nanny for a few years now. Most people don't want to hire someone at this age.

She's made terrible decisions all of her life and squandered money that she's mooched off of every family member possible. As soon as I started working she depended on me for paying maintainance fees at our old apartment which she still destroyed via neglect. I moved out ASAP. She is following me around my whole life and she moves in whenever she's between jobs. I can't stand it, she is strange and has strange habits and all of my landlords have hated her (I rent a basement at the moment). My current place isn't meant for two people, either. I can only afford to take care of myself at the moment. I wouldn't mind having her live in the basement if I owned a house but until then, no!!! I am almost certain she will get me kicked out of my current rental arrangement and destroy my life.

So I don't like her, but she's my mother and I can't just leave her on the street. She refuses to accept Ontario Works or any other service. What is a moral way out of this that doesn't destroy either of our lives?

Thanks for any help - I've run out of ideas here!
posted by j1sh to Human Relations (38 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Assuming social services are available to keep her off the street, I suggest

"Mom, I love you, but I can't invite you into my house. However, I am totally ready to help you apply for Ontario Works so you can afford a place of your own. Want to do that together Tuesday night?"

Then stick to it.
posted by feets at 9:54 PM on April 8, 2013 [13 favorites]


She will tear down all you have done to help yourself maintain a life.

Don't let her in the door. "Mom, I'll help you all I can with social services. No you cannot live with me."

Keep repeating this.

She put herself in this position through the choices she made in her life. There are services available. It's her decision to avail herself of them or not. If she prefers the street, abide by her decision.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:22 PM on April 8, 2013 [9 favorites]


You live in Canada, I say you thrown her to the mercy of the government. She'll be OK, presumably, there? Don't let her in to your place. If you have to, move and don't tell her where you went, or better yet move, change your number and avoid all contact for 6 months to a year in order to force her to take care of herself.

In the US you'd be stuck with her so comfort yourself with that thought when you get the urge to scream.
posted by fshgrl at 10:28 PM on April 8, 2013 [1 favorite]


fshgrl: "In the US you'd be stuck with her so comfort yourself with that thought when you get the urge to scream."

What? In the US you would not be stuck with her. You have no legal obligation to take in your 63 year old mother.

I am in the US and here is what I would do in North America. Tell her outright that moving in with you simply is not an option. Offer to help her find alternative accommodations and navigate the red tape of social services. If you let her in the door, you will not be able to get her out. She will stay. It sucks you are in this position, but the most important part is the not letting her in in the first place.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:36 PM on April 8, 2013 [1 favorite]


I bet it would work better if you could get a third person in on this conversation: a social worker who could advise you and your mother of financial options available to you both. If you paint this as her becoming independent of you, she might be more willing to try Ontario Works. And the social worker may have other options you don't know about.
posted by pracowity at 10:52 PM on April 8, 2013 [1 favorite]


[One comment deleted; what would happen in the US is not relevant to the OP's situation, so let's let that discussion drop.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:57 PM on April 8, 2013


She doesn't want to use social services because its easier to sponge off you. If you make it utterly clear that this is not going to happen, and she is on her own, financially, then I'm pretty sure she will change her mind. This might involve you having to stay strong while she threatens you about how she will be sleeping on the street if you don't take her in. Stay strong. She needs to take responsibility for herself and use the social net that is thankfully there for her. More importantly though, you need to take responsibility for yourself and your well-being, by not letting her move in and derail your life. Good luck and stay strong.
posted by Joh at 11:39 PM on April 8, 2013 [1 favorite]


You can get therapy for free, ask your doctor for a referral. Because you need to develop assertiveness. You are unhealthily passive; you live independently and hold down a job yet can't seem able to say no to your mother. She doesn't just move in, nor force you to pay her maintenance fees - you are choosing to do those things knowing they are harming yourself and not really helping her. She appears to have taught you that you are the parent in your relationship; is there anyone else in your family that can act as a buffer between you? Since you have such a dysfunctional relationship, I agree with the idea of just dropping out if her life while you work on yourself - don't give her any contact information, refuse to answer your door etc. Once you break the patterns the two of you are stuck in you will be able to find stability in your own life. Meanwhile, in Ontario, there is plenty of help available for her. She can even start to draw a pension if she doesn't want Ontario works and the subsidised elders housing is very nice. Good luck; it may feel selfish to focus on yourself and your needs but it is actually the healthiest thing you can do for both of you.
posted by saucysault at 1:49 AM on April 9, 2013 [5 favorites]


You do not have any moral or legal obligation to take care of your mother. Let me repeat that: YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY MORAL OR LEGAL OBLIGATION TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR MOTHER: especially since you already know that, if you were to let her into your home, it would probably end up with you too losing your home. Provide her with contact information for the various social service agencies, provide sympathy if you wish, but nothing else.

There is NOTHING --- nothing beyond her own attempts to guilt-trip you, that is --- that says you have to provide her with money or housing: the word 'mother' is not magic, and having given birth to you does not mean you are chained to a known leach for life.

(If you were some rich multimillionaire then it might, stress MIGHT, be different, in that it would be easy for you to support her so why not?, but you're not that mythical multimillionaire, and you already know your limited resources won't stretch to cover the bills for both of you.)
posted by easily confused at 2:26 AM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


In the US you would not be stuck with her. You have no legal obligation to take in your 63 year old mother.

Fortunately we haven't quite put in place the "don't get old, and if you do, die quickly" policy yet. In the U.S. she would be on the brink of monthly Social Security payments and Medicare health coverage.

It sounds like saucysault has some key advice here - find out the details of drawing a pension and subsidized housing and help her fill out any applications she needs and getting any other needed paperwork in order. Down here in New England a relative had to be on a waiting list for years before he was able to get a subsidized apartment but once he got it, it was fabulous: private albeit small, very affordable for his income, and a real load off our minds that he has a stable and guaranteed place to live somewhere that's accustomed to accomodating older tenants.

And besides doing it for her her sake, you want to be involved in all that stuff so that you know what her options are - so you know, when she asks you for something, if it's something she should be able to get from her pension benefits or from other programs.
posted by XMLicious at 2:32 AM on April 9, 2013


What they said. Waiting lists for senior housing very from immediate occupancy to a couple if years, but you have to realize that you are NOT her only option. She's acting like a beat by refusing to accept social services. Just be strong, say NO, and offer to help her with paperwork.

Heck, start calling around and get her name on some lists now if you can. What is her current living situation? You may be able to expedite things if she's truly on the verge of homelessness.
posted by checkitnice at 3:32 AM on April 9, 2013


You live in Canada, I say you thrown her to the mercy of the government. She'll be OK, presumably, there?

It's Canada, not a magical socialist wonderland. There absolutely is homelessness in Canada, and it's a particularly severe problem in cities like Toronto. Straight-forward inability to pay rent (rather than things like abuse or mental health problems) is the leading cause of homelessnesses. There is not a magic bandaid for that in the Canadian social care system, and it is very likely that the OP's mother would not just be "OK" somehow.

j1sh, you can go down to Service Canada with her and they can tell you if she meets the requirements for Canada Pension Plan (CPP), which she can collect at her age if she wants to. It's not a lot of money, but she can top it up with OAS or GIS if she is eligible. (I found Service Canada in person to be really helpful, FWIW.)

In my experience trying to house an ill and ageing parent in Toronto, it's a nightmare. There are 160,000 people on the waiting list. The wait can be a decade. There should be a centralised housing clearinghouse like Housing Connections in your province and they may be able to assist you with specialised senior housing.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:28 AM on April 9, 2013 [5 favorites]


Nthing every call for a social worker or a counsellor. It sounds like there's a lot more going in in your mother's life than housing. Finding some help for her with this and other things seems like it would be a good move now and in the long run.

Good luck.
posted by raena at 4:29 AM on April 9, 2013


You do not have any moral or legal obligation to take care of your mother.

I'm sorry, but this is not only wrong, but cruel - we do have a moral obligation to fellow human beings, including our mothers.

Social services in Canada have seen such situations before, and they can help assign community caregivers - specifically to help you help her. That will get help alleviate your stress and the weight you may shoulder. Look into this at the earliest.
posted by Kruger5 at 5:32 AM on April 9, 2013 [5 favorites]


we do have a moral obligation to fellow human beings, including our mothers.

Kruger, I don't think anyone is saying that the OP doesn't have a moral obligation to help her mother at all, only that she doesn't have a moral obligation to help her mother in a specific way.

Enlisting the help of a social services counselor does count as helping one's mother. And taking care of your own self is a way you can preserve your ability TO help your mother - and if one way of taking care of your own self is eliminating "let mom move in with me" as a possible solution to the problem, so be it. There are other solutions.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:53 AM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


Some excellent advice here, thank you all so much. I believe when I get home tonight I will propose to help her enroll in Ontario Works. She is already staying over unfortunately, even though I knew it would affect me this way. I am too nice, I guess.

At this point though it's either her or me, and it's not going to be me. So she has to leave but I will help her apply to OW first. Would they help her find community housing or something along those lines as well? Otherwise, I vote that she collects OW and then perhaps finds like-minded individuals to share an apartment/house with.
posted by j1sh at 6:01 AM on April 9, 2013


Your mom has made terrible choices in her life, don't repeat her mistakes.

Let her know NOW that moving in with you isn't an option. "Mom, I'm not able to let you move in with me. You MUST find some way of solving your problems that doesn't involve that."

Or, one thing you could do is let her know how you feel, "Mom, for years I've helped you out, for years you've taken advantage and caused me all sorts of problems, you've sucked me dry both financially and emotionally. At this point I don't have anything left to give you. I need to live my life for myself, and at this time in order for me to have some peace, I am cutting off all ties to you. I wish you well."

It's VERY hard, but in your case I think it will be such a relief that it will be worth it. If you can, get into therapy if only to have an impartial party confirm what you know, that children should not have the responsibility of rearing their parents. You've done it long enough.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:03 AM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


I see you're in Ontario, but I'm not sure you're in Toronto. You might want to use a resource like Nellie's, not so much for the shelter (though it's good to be in their system if it comes to that) but for their resources, counseling and programs. They can possibly help both of you through the process of applying for what will help her.

You also might want to make sure you get POA if she's amenable to that, and that she has a Health Care Directive in order too, just because it will help in dire circumstances. Can you make it conditional to helping her either financially or with living arrangements?

But at any rate, this is a conversation I had to have with my own parents, and I based it on "The way the world works these days..." which took some of the sting away. It's not exactly me saying no - it's legalities and processes and procedures. "The way the world works these days, Mom, is that you can't move in my basement apartment with me. It's in my lease. Sorry. Let's figure out something for you."

Finding a balance you can live with will help. In my case, I consider it was maybe not cool for my parents to adopt a daughter with a strong consideration being having someone to care for them in their old age (and because they believed the purpose of marriage was procreation.) The "Don't put me in a home!" warning from my mother echoed throughout my childhood and I felt the burden of it, until a few years ago I sat them down and walked them through the realities of caring for them without help or any financial means in today's world, considering everything from our young child, to a house with stairs and no main-floor bathroom to the fact that I live in a different country and they can't immigrate and I can't sponsor them. Laying out the practicalities (you'll have no friends; you can't walk or drive; you're assuming Dad will go first because he's unhealthy but he's lived 25 years already like that...) was what helped her to see the light. I drew boundaries: "Mom, if you're set up this way, I can do this and this and this. If I have to do X, then I can't do Y and Q and R and so on."

AskMetafilter is a big fan of using"That's simply not possible" and variations thereof - but it's a great tool, covers a lot of truths, and it works. You have to figure out what is possible, and offer her ONLY that. But find some support services to help both of you know what works for you two. Good luck.
posted by peagood at 6:04 AM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


[Please limit your contributions to answering the question, and please resist the temptation to turn this into a discussion. Thank you.]
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 6:17 AM on April 9, 2013


Ontario works is pretty clear about what they offer: money for food and housing costs, and job assistance. They do not help with housing and the housing that's available for anyone to help with in terms of low income or senior housing has long waiting lists.

You need to look at the rates. Best case scenario it's around $1K a month in a region where average rent on a 1BR is $980. If she makes less than the minimum of I believe 15K, she can also get the Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS) I linked to above to bring her up to the minimum income level.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:27 AM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


She is already staying over unfortunately, even though I knew it would affect me this way. I am too nice, I guess.

This is part of the mindset that is creating this problem for you. Letting your mother move in with you under these circumstances isn't "nice", it's easy. Avoiding conflict and being more concerned about your mother's reaction to your boundaries then your own welfare aren't "nice" traits, and reframing that in your own mind will help you stand up for yourself.
posted by Dynex at 6:54 AM on April 9, 2013 [8 favorites]


I am sorry you are going through this, and would absolutely agree that getting therapy for yourself would be an excellent idea; just having to deal with this is traumatic.

Is your mother mentally ill; has she been diagnosed at any time? Does she have a substance abuse problem? I ask because her behavior is so over the top. Some people are just really selfish or shortsighted of course, and maybe that's her category. (This is also the kind of thing a therapist can help you with; finding a way to understand, without enabling, your mom's behavior).

I also ask because if she has an actual mental illness, she might have different programs and options open to her, and to you.

Is there anyone else in the family who can help you? Not to pay her bills, but to make arrangements or otherwise offer you moral support? You sound very isolated and that makes it easier for you to be manipulated and also harder to find solutions. Reach out to anyone you can talk to or lean on.
posted by emjaybee at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


No other family, believe me I would have asked them but she severed all ties to everyone else by basically being weird. This happened when I was much younger, about 18 or so so I have also lost connections with those family members.

I'm thinking a combination of helping her apply to OW and also helping her find some housing with people in similar situations. If she refuses that then she can do whatever she wants. She cannot live with me regardless, I need to maintain my life. I plan to go tell her tonight.
posted by j1sh at 7:12 AM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


If you have no other family, do you have friends? Not to take your mother in, but to offer you a support system? This is something you badly need right now. Please do whatever you can to shore up your friendship network.

You might want to look into a support group such as Co-Dependents Anonymous or AlAnon.

I know this sounds heartless, but if all else fails, once you've done what you can to get her into the social service system, just move and leave no forwarding information so she can't find you. The much-stated advice about putting on your own oxygen mask applies here. She could live another 20 or 30 years, by which time you yourself are under-or-unemployed, friendless, and basically in the same position as she is. You don't want to be in your 60's and trying to scrape up housing and money from Social Services yourself. Don't let your mom be the millstone that drags you down. Even if you feel obligated in some way to care for your mother, you must - repeat, MUST - make sure your own life is stable. You talk about moving from place to place a lot. If you're still in your 20's that is normal, but if you're past 30 you want to start thinking about your own future. Don't give up your own opportunities for employment, your own family, whatever you want, just for your mother.

Get your mom in contact with social services and they can get her in with group housing, but don't forget your own oxygen mask.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:51 AM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just because she cut off ties to your family doesn't mean you have to. Google up some names and see who you find on FaceBook etc. You need support, if only to talk on the telephone with people that can commiserate with how she still hasn't changed. People from "normal" families don't always understand how frustrating a dysfunctional parent can be. If she gets OW and is still living with you then make sure you get the shelter money from her cheque and that she is contributing to groceries etc. It will help you build up a little reserve of money/pay for the increased costs of her living with you. Alternatively, If all else fails when you tell her to leave tell the landlord she won't leave, see if they will change the locks for you (if she has a key) and call the police if she is knocking on your door at 3am.

I wouldn't even help her find her own accommodation as you said - what can you do that she can't do for herself? It once again puts the responsibility for her life (and her failures) on you. You need to have new expectations for her: "you are adult and can find a way to support yourself and get a room like all other adults do, if you aren't capable of such a basic thing then you should be admitted to hospital (like CAMH) to be assessed because you are unable to function as an adult. I need you to be out of my home by Saturday at noon (or immediately, whatever is best for you)." You have tried to help and for whatever reason, she isn't able to help herself but will drag you down along with her. It is sad, but these are the choices she is making.

If you feel comfortable naming your regional municipality we may be able to direct you to specific service agencies you can print out and give her.
posted by saucysault at 8:38 AM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


It's about learning to say No to her. No, there is not room in this small apartment for you. I can help you with alternatives, but you must be out by tomorrow. Do not respond or argue, just stick to it. She will manipulate and take advantage of you as long as you allow it. Read the Shamu story, praise her whenever she works or takes care of herself. I can tell you from experience that the process of getting out from under manipulation is difficult and unpleasant, and totally Worth It. You will be able to be much happier when she is in different housing, manipulating somebody else.
posted by theora55 at 9:21 AM on April 9, 2013


Here is a recent related thread, in which I recommended a book called Coping with your Difficult Older Parent: a Guide for Stressed-Out Children. I just read it and found it helpful. It doesn't tell you what your parents' options for not ending up on the street are, but does give you ideas about how to have conversations with them without wanting to bang your (or their) head against the wall.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:25 AM on April 9, 2013


If she's so weird, she might have a diagnosable mental illness which might qualify her for ODSP which is a lot closer to being a livable amount of money.

Get a list of women's shelters and if she guilt trips you with life on the streets, hand it to her.
posted by windykites at 10:54 AM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'd imagine that getting her to get diagnosed is a 'nother kettle of fish.
posted by small_ruminant at 11:27 AM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Confirming DarlingBri on the horrifically long waiting lists in TO, Peel, Ottawa and Hamilton. If you open the Waiting Lists Survey (pdf) on this page, you can see if any of the cities with shorter lists (Dufferin, even Waterloo or Windsor) might be possibilities. I know that's a longshot, and it would mean doing a lot of persuading. Also, not sure what other kinds of services are available in some of those smaller places.

Your mom can be on several lists at once. Someone will have to check in with the process every now and then, from a single address to which mail etc will be sent, or she could be considered a drop-out. I have read that depending on the region, seniors (so, your mom in two years) might fall into the high-priority placement category (with survivors of domestic abuse, and families), which increases the odds of being placed slightly sooner than the 8 years. (Average time was ~2-3 years for seniors, last I checked.) Single non-seniors are not considered high-priority. But it's worth putting her on a few lists to at least get the process started. If she got into subsidized housing, your mom would only have to pay 30% of her income [pension] toward rent. I think DarlingBri's solution - find her a little place somewhere cheap until then - is your best option.

Re other support - if your mom has early onset age-related mental health issues, her GP could refer her to a psychogeriatric program, such as the one offered by St Joseph's (Hamilton) & Trillium before she turns 65. Catchment area is from Etobicoke to Burlington-ish. Here's a list of seniors resources for Toronto. Again the whole catch-22 is, your mom has to be a willing and active participant.
posted by nelljie at 11:52 AM on April 9, 2013


I've told her how it is, that I will help her with Ontario Works but she needs to be out of here soon whether she takes my offer or not.

If she makes another poor decision right now in the face of this I can't be held responsible. She's been here a week and already got the landlord furious and causing me a total lack of sleep and to be unfocused at work.

It's certainly hard to say the words but she knows that once this is over, we are done, she can't ruin my life. I know I would take care of her if I was in a position to, but I am simply not at that point in my life.

She lived in a motel for three years living off of money left by my grandmother when she died. Not once did she try to take care of herself and make some kind of life. Money ran out, she moved in. I helped her find jobs, she left, now she's come back to me since those jobs ended.

Before that, she destroyed our old apartment by allowing it to flood and the carpets and walls grew mold. She knew the washing machine caused it and wouldn't get it fixed and continued to use it every day. That's when I moved out, at about 18. I hear that apartment was demolished and rebuilt after she left it, though it didn't surprise me one bit. I pleaded with her and pleaded and pleaded some more to sort out her life but she never took any advice.

Fast forward 8 years later she is trying to guilt trip me that she'll be out on the streets again - well you know I did what I could. Couldn't even save up money as a kid because I spent it on her damn apartment she destroyed.

I live in Brampton, for those who were asking.

I am amazed at all the heartfelt replies here, simply amazed. Thank you all so much for your insight and I will be posting as this progresses.
posted by j1sh at 6:07 PM on April 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


Good for you. I am proud of you, really.

Brampton is pretty bad for subsidized housing but great for basement apartments. I believe there is more availability for older residents though rather than just "adult" ones. If she doesn't have a job she also doesn't need to stay in Brampton. She can get to 10 Peel Centre Drive easily as it is beside the Bramalea Bus Teminal. The staff there are fantastic and have truly seen it all. She may find talking to someone really helpful. Meanwhile, hop over to the online application of Ontario Works. It asks about family members etc; keep in mind you have already decided she is not living with you so do not fill out the form as though she is. If I were you, I would do the form without her without saving it to give yourself a test run before sitting down with her and dealing with stress from her AND the application.
posted by saucysault at 6:58 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sorry, I just realized I dropped a word that makes my sentence a bit silly. I meant there were more subsidised apartments for elders, not that there were more basement apartments for elders.
posted by saucysault at 7:56 PM on April 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sounds great, I will inform her of this location. As for Ontario Works, do I really need to be providing all of my income and information so she can fill it out for herself? I really want her out of my life, not more involved.
posted by j1sh at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2013


No, do not provide your information. I just meant you should run through the application yourself so you won't be surprised by any questions on it when you are helping her (most "difficult" people will use the rationalization that the form is too hard/don't know the answer as a reason to give up on applying - I'm just suggesting ways to head that off at the pass). She applies as an independent adult with no children dependent on her and no fixed address.
posted by saucysault at 8:57 PM on April 9, 2013 [3 favorites]


Agreed with saucysault: do not provide your information. Adding your info to her application might actually slow or even prevent her getting assistance, because then social services might consider YOUR income as HER income, and think that she doesn't need nearly as much assistance as she actually does.

Also: you wrote that you've told her she has to be out of your apartment 'soon'; I think you need to change that to a solid specific DATE she has to be out of there, rather than that open-ended 'soon'. Someone above compared your situation to using an oxygen mask, and they're absolutely right; airlines insist you put on your own oxygen mask BEFORE you try to put one on someone else, because it's not going to do anyone any good if you pass out too: put yours on first, protect yourself before you try to help other people. In your own situation, you need to protect yourself and your home before you help your mother: she's already homeless, it's certainly not going to help either of you if you also end up losing your home.

Perhaps when things settle down a little, consider getting some therapy for yourself; you sound really stressed out by this. Really, it's okay if you want her out of your life, whether that means just out of your home and your wallet or totally no-contact or somewhere inbetween. And finally, your extended family: consider reconnecting with them --- not for help with dealing with your mother, but just for yourself, for that feeling of *family*.
posted by easily confused at 2:30 AM on April 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


I don't know if you are planning on going to 10 Centre Peel Drive with her but it might be a good idea just to make sure the caseworker really gets the message that she is not living with you. Your mother may hear her option (shelter beds) and convince the case worker that you will probably let you stay a bit longer despite what you said. Appeal to authority: "my landlord has said if she is not out by Saturday they will begin eviction proceedings against me because I am violation of my lease by letting her stay. Her personal habits routinely cause major physical damage and destruction to property including my own." The first thing a case worker will do is try to get your mother housed with family members (you) so you have to be firm that you are not the solution and not to waste any time pursuing that as an option. You say she is weird, is she weird enough that the case worker will pick up on that in the first meeting and look for a more supportive environment for her instead of the independent living she clearly is not capable of? Good luck.
posted by saucysault at 8:12 AM on April 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


You might also want to reach out to Elder Help Peel, their mandate is a bit different but they may have something to offer you. And again, get help for yourself, this all sounds very stressful for you. There is free/low cost therapy available in Brampton. Often the names of the agencies indicate the source of their funding (Catholic, Newcomers) but for almost all agencies they provide help to people regardless of religion, ethnicity etc. The public library can also provide sources of help including reading materials to let you know you aren't alone in facing this.
posted by saucysault at 8:20 AM on April 10, 2013


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