crazy relatives
September 10, 2005 3:16 AM Subscribe
How do you deal with extremely difficult (if not mentally unstable), chemically dependent relatives who you still want to maintain a relationship with?
The relative in question seems to exhibit symptoms of borderline personality disorder/narcissism. Cutting them off is not an option because they control access to other relatives I very much want to stay in contact with. No physical abuse is involved, but lots of screaming, paranoid accusations, extreme self-centeredness, etc. At this point, I am pretty much uninterested in creating a "good" relationship with the unstable relative, but I need to learn how not to aggravate them.
The relative in question seems to exhibit symptoms of borderline personality disorder/narcissism. Cutting them off is not an option because they control access to other relatives I very much want to stay in contact with. No physical abuse is involved, but lots of screaming, paranoid accusations, extreme self-centeredness, etc. At this point, I am pretty much uninterested in creating a "good" relationship with the unstable relative, but I need to learn how not to aggravate them.
My Father had a similar problem. The best advice is either you, or the responsible personforf this relative, must seek medical assistance. If not the problem will not go away and will be prolonged. I know what you are going through.
posted by Mckoan1 at 5:42 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by Mckoan1 at 5:42 AM on September 10, 2005
Um...the poster wants to know how to deal with this person and how not to aggravate them.
It's a little difficult to advise definitively. When people exhibit irrational and self-centred behaviour you've got to judge it on the spot. That said I think it's important to be consistent and anemotive as far as possible in both your facial/body language and tone of speech when they have an outburst.
Try to speak calmly if you're going to engage them and choose words that are non-limiting eg. "I understand what you're saying but maybe John will get upset if you take the car"; rather than- "No. You can't take the car. It's not yours." -- kind of thing. A moderate non-confrontational approach gently emphasizing important points. (Using words such as : maybe, perhaps, supposing, possibly) In this way the calmness you project is more likely to influence the other person's behaviour - particularly if these outbursts are themselves reactions to people/environment. [Not a bad approach to typing in the blue and grey of MeFi actually.]
And because this person is your connection to others whom you care about, perhaps you could subtly mention how much you like these others/want to see them whenever you interact with the irrational person. A bit of reinforcement. Hopefully if you're nice to them, that's how they'll regard you and they won't reject you or be a barrier to you connecting with the others.
If the dependency is a monetary burden then I suppose you need to be consistent in deflecting any manipulative attempts to fleece you. Lie if you have to but maintain a gentle wall against any approaches.
On review...I suppose the above leans more towards establishing a good relationship that you don't particularly want. In which case I'd suggest the calm voice, the unreactive face/body language are of primary importance rather than jumping in to communicate with them so much. Smile lightly but sincerely.
posted by peacay at 7:19 AM on September 10, 2005
It's a little difficult to advise definitively. When people exhibit irrational and self-centred behaviour you've got to judge it on the spot. That said I think it's important to be consistent and anemotive as far as possible in both your facial/body language and tone of speech when they have an outburst.
Try to speak calmly if you're going to engage them and choose words that are non-limiting eg. "I understand what you're saying but maybe John will get upset if you take the car"; rather than- "No. You can't take the car. It's not yours." -- kind of thing. A moderate non-confrontational approach gently emphasizing important points. (Using words such as : maybe, perhaps, supposing, possibly) In this way the calmness you project is more likely to influence the other person's behaviour - particularly if these outbursts are themselves reactions to people/environment. [Not a bad approach to typing in the blue and grey of MeFi actually.]
And because this person is your connection to others whom you care about, perhaps you could subtly mention how much you like these others/want to see them whenever you interact with the irrational person. A bit of reinforcement. Hopefully if you're nice to them, that's how they'll regard you and they won't reject you or be a barrier to you connecting with the others.
If the dependency is a monetary burden then I suppose you need to be consistent in deflecting any manipulative attempts to fleece you. Lie if you have to but maintain a gentle wall against any approaches.
On review...I suppose the above leans more towards establishing a good relationship that you don't particularly want. In which case I'd suggest the calm voice, the unreactive face/body language are of primary importance rather than jumping in to communicate with them so much. Smile lightly but sincerely.
posted by peacay at 7:19 AM on September 10, 2005
Are the other relatives to whom you want access underage children? Be as supportive of them as you can; let them know that the adult's behavior is not their fault and make sure that they know that they can come to you, the school nurse, a favorite teacher or the like if they need help. Verbal and emotional abuse is just as bad as physical.
posted by brujita at 7:46 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by brujita at 7:46 AM on September 10, 2005
I strongly urge you to read "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me," by Jerold J. Kreisman, M.D. My mother had BPD and that book helped me see that I wasn't the cause of all her troubles, even though she insisted I was.
posted by Carol Anne at 7:49 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by Carol Anne at 7:49 AM on September 10, 2005
Along with all of the above, try to limit contact to times when the person is not under the influence, if possible.
From 445supermag's wife.
posted by 445supermag at 8:40 AM on September 10, 2005
From 445supermag's wife.
posted by 445supermag at 8:40 AM on September 10, 2005
Second Carol Anne's recommendation...and have you thought of seeing a counselor yourself? BPD/NPD can be tough to deal with -- even if you don't have it yourself. A good counselor can give you more strategies on dealing with the person in question.
posted by Vidiot at 9:00 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by Vidiot at 9:00 AM on September 10, 2005
My grandfather (who I really did love dearly, but he was a difficult man to love at times!) might have been bipolar, BPD, and/or NPD; of course, we'll never really have an answer, but whatever it was, in some ways it became the defining trauma/dynamic in my family for three generations (my sister still won't talk about the time he took us to Disneyland -- from Colorado! -- without our parents' permission, and then tried to hold up the plane with a spork). So I strongly second Vidiot's suggestion you to talk with a counselor yourself -- I know how extremely (and chronically) stressful it can be on family members to deal with, and so insight from a professional in terms of coping mechanisms, etc. could be very helpful for you.
My own experience in dealing with my grandfather may not be terribly instructive, because in many ways I (as the youngest in the family) was the least-frequent target of his "states" -- he tended to act out at my grandmother, my mother, my father, other relatives/friends, random strangers, and even my sister, but he was almost never directly angry at me. (He'd be in a rage around me, but he never directed it at me.) I developed over the years the ability to stay (reasonably) calm and disengaged around him at those moments, so that our rapport when he was being lucid/stable remained relatively unscathed. (There was a point at which I think I might have been the only person in the family outside my grandmother who was even in steady contact with him.) So our situations sound fairly different, but feel free to email me (anonymity assured) if I can answer any specific questions.
posted by scody at 10:12 AM on September 10, 2005
My own experience in dealing with my grandfather may not be terribly instructive, because in many ways I (as the youngest in the family) was the least-frequent target of his "states" -- he tended to act out at my grandmother, my mother, my father, other relatives/friends, random strangers, and even my sister, but he was almost never directly angry at me. (He'd be in a rage around me, but he never directed it at me.) I developed over the years the ability to stay (reasonably) calm and disengaged around him at those moments, so that our rapport when he was being lucid/stable remained relatively unscathed. (There was a point at which I think I might have been the only person in the family outside my grandmother who was even in steady contact with him.) So our situations sound fairly different, but feel free to email me (anonymity assured) if I can answer any specific questions.
posted by scody at 10:12 AM on September 10, 2005
The largest difficulty in dealing with people with borderline personality disorder is that they see the world as black and white, but mainly just black. Often this is due to some childhood betrayal, such as abuse, in which a loved one who seemed to be good committed unspeakable acts against them.
The most important thing for you to remember is a little thing called boundaries. Set them and enforce them. The binary thought model leads to a pattern of behavior where a borderline person will tend to test relationships that seem to be going too well, as if to sabotage them. Thus, you might find the person seemingly intentionally trying to aggravate or hurt you, and then when you respond in a way that isn't "perfect" to them, you immediately shift over to the "evil" category, and their test has confirmed that the world is an altogether evil place. The way around this is to never let yourself be pigenholed into a good or evil category. Don't let boundary violations, no matter how small, slide by. Otherwise, the person may begin to test your boundaries further. Eventually, you will break, and will more than likely respond in a less-than-rational way. If you're firm but reasonable from the start, it usually never gets to that point.
There is another aspect to the behavior that is attention-seeking. Outrageous behavior, such as self injurious behavior or frequent trips to the hospital, is common among borderlines as a way of getting attention. The way around it is to refuse to reward the behavior. For example, in treatment settings, there is sometimes a "24-hour rule," where a borderline patient's therapist and other caregivers will refuse to give all non-essential attention (such as medical care) for 24-hours following a self injurious behavioral incident. The behavior is usually not so obvious as cutting, however. It requires a watchful eye to spot unhealthy attempts to get attention. Storming off is one of these techniques. Let them go (don't "go after her" like in the movies) and realize that you probably didn't do anything to warrant the response. Don't get upset about it, but spend the time the person is away, waiting for you to come running after them, thinking about how you can more effectively communicate when they return.
Keep in mind that it won't be easy, but your best efforts will only help you and your relatives become better people and better friends. Don't stick around if things become unhealthy for you, however.
Hope this helps!
posted by dsword at 8:39 PM on September 10, 2005 [1 favorite]
The most important thing for you to remember is a little thing called boundaries. Set them and enforce them. The binary thought model leads to a pattern of behavior where a borderline person will tend to test relationships that seem to be going too well, as if to sabotage them. Thus, you might find the person seemingly intentionally trying to aggravate or hurt you, and then when you respond in a way that isn't "perfect" to them, you immediately shift over to the "evil" category, and their test has confirmed that the world is an altogether evil place. The way around this is to never let yourself be pigenholed into a good or evil category. Don't let boundary violations, no matter how small, slide by. Otherwise, the person may begin to test your boundaries further. Eventually, you will break, and will more than likely respond in a less-than-rational way. If you're firm but reasonable from the start, it usually never gets to that point.
There is another aspect to the behavior that is attention-seeking. Outrageous behavior, such as self injurious behavior or frequent trips to the hospital, is common among borderlines as a way of getting attention. The way around it is to refuse to reward the behavior. For example, in treatment settings, there is sometimes a "24-hour rule," where a borderline patient's therapist and other caregivers will refuse to give all non-essential attention (such as medical care) for 24-hours following a self injurious behavioral incident. The behavior is usually not so obvious as cutting, however. It requires a watchful eye to spot unhealthy attempts to get attention. Storming off is one of these techniques. Let them go (don't "go after her" like in the movies) and realize that you probably didn't do anything to warrant the response. Don't get upset about it, but spend the time the person is away, waiting for you to come running after them, thinking about how you can more effectively communicate when they return.
Keep in mind that it won't be easy, but your best efforts will only help you and your relatives become better people and better friends. Don't stick around if things become unhealthy for you, however.
Hope this helps!
posted by dsword at 8:39 PM on September 10, 2005 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Ken McE at 5:05 AM on September 10, 2005