Clothing recommendations for -16C Toronto
February 25, 2013 11:43 AM   Subscribe

I live in London. I am going to Toronto on Sunday where, according to the weather forecast, there will be lows of -16C. I have literally never *been* in weather like that before, and do not own, or know where I should purchase, clothing which will deal with it. Special circumstance to note: I am a large person. I'm a woman, but men's XXXL does well by me .

(I don't specially care about the sleeves being too long. I care about my limbs not freezing and falling off.) Men's XXL is likely to be too small to fasten in front. Let's not even bother getting into clothing-intended-for-women unless you have some special knowledge that this exists.

So. Long johns? Thermal vests, gloves, socks? What boots/shoes? And, even more importantly, where can I get them in *appropriate sizes*?
posted by acalthla to Travel & Transportation (37 answers total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
You're in luck! its only going to feel like -14!

How much walking around outside are you going to do realistically? Where are you staying/visiting? Because its entirely possible to get around parts of downtown toronto underground or by taking the subway or cabs. Most people run from inside to inside.

A warm coat (wool pea coat will do) and layers under that or a down coat. Scarf, gloves and hat are helpful (wool and fleece are best though some people use cheaper acrylic stuff) Boots, well it depends on the snow level really.

Honestly I found the weather in Vancouver (0-5C similar to london I think) to be chillier than Toronto because its really damp there. In Toronto its a lot dryer, but its the wind that can really bite.
posted by captaincrouton at 11:50 AM on February 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

I live in Chicago. It gets cold in Chicago. Rarely that cold, but frequently very cold. I grew up someplace where it was always warm and sunny. I can't give you specific clothing/brand recommendations, but I can tell you what I've learned.

-THICK socks. You want to get some high-quality, thick wool socks (like smartwool or similar). If they are not sufficiently thick, consider wearing two pairs.

-If you will be outside in weather (snow/slush) for any length of time, you'll want boots.

-Layering is very important. I don't have any long underwear, but I have a ton of knit tights and leggings. When it gets very cold, I always wear a layer of something under my pants. If I'm wearing a skirt, I will occasionally don double leggings.

-I have found that the type of gloves, so long as I'm wearing some, don't really matter much to me, as I keep my fists balled in my coat pockets 99% of the time I'm outside.

-Scarf. You'll probably want two. One for your neck/collarbone area, and another to wrap around your face. The best thing you can do in weather this cold is keep all of your skin covered.

-HAT. Make sure you have something that completely covers your ears. Either an ushanka-type thing or a toque sufficiently large and thick enough to come down over your ears and keep the wind out.

-For a coat, you will want something that comes down far enough to cover your butt and thighs.

Honestly, though, unless you'll be spending significant amounts of time outside, you'll be happy as long as you keep your skin covered. As captaincruton says, most folks this time of year just dart from building to building and spend pretty minimal time outdoors.
posted by phunniemee at 11:58 AM on February 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

Londoner here, moved to Toronto three years ago. Long johns are the way to go for under -10C. and layer layer layer.

Are you intending on shopping for warm clothing when you get here, or in London.

But captain crouton is right in saying you don't have to go outside often, depending on what you're doing. And it is a different kind of cold, too -- it gets in your bones much less than from that damp northern European island.
posted by randomination at 11:59 AM on February 25, 2013

Montrealer here. I really would not recommend a wool coat. Below -10C I would not go out without a parka. I save my wool coat for single negative digits.

You'll want something on your legs. Long johns and jeans at a minimum, or flannel-lined pants. Generally below -10C I throw on a pair of snow pants.

It depends on your philosophy. If you plan to bear the cold while you dash from car to door, you could theoretically get away with a wool coat and long johns. If you want to be able to walk outside admire the city, a parka and ski pants will enable you to enjoy the experience.

You can get the right clothes at online retailers like Lands End and LL Bean. They'll give you the cold ratings for your parka, and you can also buy a layered parka that has options, i.e. the lining comes out for warmer cold weather.

Bear in mind that -16C is a low. It will probably hit around 5 in the morning. If you're out in the late evening, or during the day, it won't be nearly so cold, I imagine.

"There is no bad weather, only bad clothes."
posted by musofire at 11:59 AM on February 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

Toronto weather is hovering at Freezing, but that's no big deal. A good woolen, winter coat is fine.

How much time do you plan on being outdoors?

IRRC Toronto has some nice underground tunnels so that you don't have to be out in the cold. But it just isn't THAT cold. (Unless you plan on waiting for a bus at midnight, even then stay in the pub until it's scheduled to appear.)

You need a coat. Or a Cape. I had a great Swiss Army Cape, so you might try a military surplus place.

Gloves, coat, hat and scarf are all that you should need.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:00 PM on February 25, 2013

Best answer: When it's that cold the main thing you want to do is stay indoors. When you can't do that, covering skin up is super important, as is keeping your core warm. I live in VT and we usually have about a week of that cold.

So, dress in layers with the general rule of thumb to have something that can wick sweat away closest to your skin and then layers above that which can trap warm air. REI explains this. A lot of people have warm-weather boots and then swap out indoor shoes when they are inside.

What I wear when it's that cold

- cotton socks with wool or Smartwool socks over them
- cotton tank top and polypropylene longjohns
- polypro or some other long sleeved shirt up top, maybe a t-shirt over that f I'm going to be out a long time
- wool sweater
- wool trousers if I can get them but if not, just whatever is likely to be less permeable to wind. I have snowpants for outdoor exercising
- jacket that goes past my butt - again something that is impermeable to wind. I have a down parka that I like.
- wrist covers
- gloves (some say mittens are warmer because your fingers are friendly and keep each other warm - I'd look for something that is warm when a little wet/snowy)
- wool scarf that you can wrap around your mouth and neck
- hat that will cover your ears
- sunglasses to keep wind out of your eyes

You should be mostly fine. Stay hydrated. Minimize outside time. If oyu have clothes that have gotten sweaty (especially socks) change them when you get indoors. Enjoy your visit.
posted by jessamyn at 12:04 PM on February 25, 2013

I like to hike in the winter, and this is what I wear. Agreed that if you're going to be taking advantage of convenient transport options and not hanging around outside much, you don't need to be as bundled, but since it's not specified...

Head: fuzzy hat, preferably also earwarmers.
Neck/face: as big a scarf as possible, for protecting the lower half of your face as well unless you want to invest in a balaclava.
Torso: thin knit long-sleeved shirt, topped by a thin wool sweater or cardigan or two, topped by a long-sleeved fleece jacket, topped by either an insulated or heavy wool coat, preferably one that is longer than hip length. If it has a hood, even better.
Legs: tights covered by long johns covered by preferably wool pants.
Feet: socks over the tights, sturdy shoes or boots with good traction.
Hands: thin wool or lined leather gloves under heavier insulated gloves.

Also, brief lukewarm showers plus a heavy but non-irritating moisturizer all over your body will help your skin from feeling miserable. A layer of petroleum jelly is nice if you're going to be out for a while in brutally cold wind.
posted by notquitemaryann at 12:05 PM on February 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

It actually looks like the lows are -6 or -8 --- and that's at night. During the day it'll be warmer. I actually think it makes a difference, as -4 is 'cold' but doesn't require the same degree of bundling up.

Let us know what kind of time you'll be spending outdoors. My suggestions would be very different if you're there for meetings (and dashing between the hotel and taxis) vs. ambling about the city.
posted by barnone at 12:10 PM on February 25, 2013

Best answer: I'm a Canadian. I speak from experience. -16 is not the end of the world. A warm coat is good, but frankly I wouldn't worry excessively. A couple of years ago I got through a whole winter with just polar fleece hoodie type thing that I put over various other sweaters. If you have a fairly good coat now just wear a thick sweater underneath it. Layers layers layers. You may find -16 isn't as cold as you're imagining it is (unless there is mega windchill, in which case you're fucked). Wear layers so that you can adjust to match how warm/cold you feel. if you start to get too hot and start sweating you are going to et HELLA cold if you aren't able to change out of them, believe me. This definitely counts for socks. Doubling up on socks (bonus if you can get some smart socks) is the way to go. Definitely pay attention to your head. Get a nice warm toque that either has ear flaps or goes down past your ears. A nice thick scarf is awesome too. Mittens/gloves are important. Make sure they are thick enough so that the wind doesn't shoot right through them. Fluffy lined leather ones are generally best.

But seriously, check the weather and make sure it is really going to be as cold as you're dreading. It is nearing springtime and temps are rising. Going nuts on an expensive -60 degree certified parka is going to be a total waste of money if it is only -3 and just a sweater under your coat would have been fine.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:13 PM on February 25, 2013 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Wow, thanks everyone for these answers already! The truth is, I don't really *know* what I'll be doing. I'm there for work, and much of that will be indoors. But mine is the kind of work where I might be expected to smile and show an interest when someone wants to take me for a two-hour stroll around their exciting wildlife park or something? What I mean is, I don't necessarily get to make my own schedule. (Although my schedule will be made by Torontonians who presumably understand the weather.)

I'm not going to be doing winter sports particularly. But I don't want to have to completely wuss out if someone goes "hey, let's walk through the [nature park renowned for its winter scenery]" because I don't have the right gear.
posted by acalthla at 12:17 PM on February 25, 2013

Daytime temps are predicted to be about -5C for the most chilly days -- so perhaps not parka-weather, but yes, cold. If you are shopping when you get here -- these are the stores you can visit: Pennington's and Addition Elle. My only worry would be that they will not have very many winter coats at all and perhaps none in your size left -- the stores are full of spring items now. But as other noted, you will need a good hat, scarf and gloves...that will help a lot.

Enjoy your visit.
posted by Lescha at 12:18 PM on February 25, 2013

Unless you're going to be out for hours you really don't need to worry much about this. Just cover most of your skin - hat, mitts, scarf etc and wear layers. Jeans and a sweater with a half-decent coat will be fine. A parka would be nice but not required unless you're outside for a long time and not moving around much. Similarly, I don't bother wearing long johns when it's warmer than -20C or so, unless again you expect to be standing around outside for a long time.

And yeah as other people have mentioned it's likely to be warmer than -16C in the daytime anyway, and you're not likely to be loitering outside at night for very long, I'd guess.

Shoes: depending what activities you're doing and the condition of the sidewalks (snow? slush?), you might want to avoid heels/expensive shoes so you don't have to worry too much about slipping on ice or getting your feet soaked or getting your shoes destroyed by the salt everywhere. Most decent winter boots won't look very "professional" though, unfortunately.
posted by randomnity at 12:21 PM on February 25, 2013

Best answer: So for US people, that's 5 degrees Fahrenheit as a low.

Layering, minimizing skin exposure, minimizing time outdoors. When it's 5 F/-15 C, I usually wear something similar to what jessamyn described, with an added neck gaiter because my chin gets cold, and that's fine for my usual 30-minute walk, even though I run cold by nature and it's been worse since my illness.

You don't need a new overcoat; the overcoat you wear when it's 0 C in England will suffice. What you do need is a warm underlayer and two sweaters (or one sweater or fleece) layered over it, with the understanding that you'll remove the outer sweater or fleece when you're indoors.

You'll be fine. You're not going to get frostbite at that temperature while going about your business in a city, I promise. It's an unpleasant temperature, but not health-endangering unless you're out in the wild.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:25 PM on February 25, 2013

Best answer: Nobody's going to suggest a two-hour walk if it's -5 C. That's uncomfortable for ambling around a park, even to the hardiest of Torontonians.

Make sure you have a warm hat and gloves, you'll be fine.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:29 PM on February 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

A good hat that covers your ears, mitts, and scarf will make up for a lot of sins. You can layer tights under pants instead of long johns. If you don't want to pick these things up before you get here, there will be lots to choose from in the city. You can get fine winter gear in'll pay very little for it. Or pick it up at WalMart, or Kensington Market.

The thing about T.O. is you're often shielded from the wind by the tall buildings here. Also, we don't really have a wilderness park nearby, so nobody's going to rope you into dogsledding. Just be careful of black ice. Walk like a penguin! It really helps you keep your traction.

And -15 is basically just "uncomfortably cold," not freeze your face off cold. That's -45.
posted by Bluestocking_Puppet at 12:29 PM on February 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

Also welcome to our city! I think we're all trying to save you money and a shopping trip.
If it looks like its going to snow and you already own some hiking boots or rain boots, you can wear those with wooly socks and then change to flats once in an office. That's pretty normal.

It would be rather un-canadian of your hosts to expect you to clomp around in the slush without prior notice, but I suppose its possible. Toronto is pretty urban with a large chunk of the population actively avoiding the great outdoors.

If you want to spend money we can recommend the latest in parka wear, cashmere and merino wool and elk-hide sorrels as well.
posted by captaincrouton at 12:33 PM on February 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

Agreeing with everyone else; I can't speak to women's fashion or clothing stores, but I'm downtown in Toronto right now so here are my two cents (not that we use pennies anymore):

The forecast isn't that bad; the currently predicted low for Sunday is only -7C, daytime just below freezing. There's a storm coming between now and the weekend, but it's still uncertain whether it will be rain or snow since the forecasted temperature keeps crossing the freezing line. If it does snow, there might not even be any left when you get here; the snow from the big storm a few weeks ago has all melted away already.

Assuming that you're only going about normal business in the city, all you have to do is minimize exposed skin. I'm comfortable outdoors for up to an hour in just jeans, t-shirt & sweater, a peacoat, scarf, gloves, and a toque. Today I wouldn't even bother with the hat and gloves. Pick footwear that would still be grippy enough to walk across slushy sidewalk, in case it snows. You don't need to get an expensive polar fleece coat or arctic gear unless you plan on heading a day further north and camping in Algonquin Park. Dress for daytime temperatures just below the freezing point and you'll be fine.

I'm half tempted to snap a quick candid shot of the crowds of people in the shopping district to send you; the current weather is mild compared to the depths of a cold Canadian winter. Noone here starts thinking of frostbite until it's like -20 or -30C.
posted by ceribus peribus at 12:35 PM on February 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

Warm feet! Wooly socks and good boots are really important. For the rest of you, just layer, like everyone is saying.
posted by mumimor at 12:38 PM on February 25, 2013

Response by poster: A new thing I have learned from this thread already: the word "toque". Now I want one.

And, ceribus peribus, I would genuinely love a snapshot of what it looks like over there. This whole conversation is *extremely comforting*.
posted by acalthla at 12:39 PM on February 25, 2013

On preview: Now I'm confused. How long are you going to be in Toronto? You've mentioned weather on just one day, but do you expect to be here longer? The advice below is for a medium-cold day as you have described, but would be overkill for milder days (which are coming!)

Temperatures and wind: The forecast low is -9C, the forecast high is -6C. If you're going to be out in the day and not the evening, I'd take -6C as the best estimate. The wind is from the north at 20 km/hour, so I'd guesstimate it would feel like -10C when you're exposed to that wind during the day, as low as the stated -14C if you're out at night.

Surfaces: We often have dry winters, but there's snow and slush on the ground now, with some more accumulation heading our way and temps too low to melt it. Expect some muck and ice. (Walk like a penguin on ice.)


1) Legs and feet: Keep these warm but not suffocated, and you'll be happy.
- If you expect to be out when it's coldest and windiest, wear comfy long underwear, or even basic cotton winter tights, under your trousers. It doesn't have to be super-thick and arctic rated unless you really expected to be walking for 20 minutes or more when it's coldest. If you're wearing a skirt, try tights + long underwear.
- Try skipping the long underwear once the temperature reaches 0. That's a good transition point for someone getting acclimatized to our weather.
- WOOL socks when it's subzero. Accept no substitutions. Even thin wool socks to go over tights can be quite warm.
- Waterproof boots with a good tread that are comfy to walk in and that will fit whatever combo of tights and socks you will wear.

2) Hands and head: Cover exposed skin as needed.
- Lined gloves or mitts of any style you like. On Sunday, you can get away with knitted unlined gloves if you're ready to shove your hands into your pockets when you're walking, but lined is best.
- Any hat or hat/scarf combo that will cover your ears when it's coldest and windiest. I have a cheap, long acrylic scarf that I often use instead of a hat: it works well at this level of cold.

3) Torso: If you already have a winter jacket that works for British winters, you'll be fine.
- LAYERS. In weather like this, I wear a cotton t-shirt, a hoodie or cardigan, and a short jacket over all. I can zip and unzip strategically for the temps and my level of activity.

If you're short of anything you need, Mark's Work Wearhouse has outlets all over Toronto. It has both men's and women's clothes, so you can choose whatever fits and looks good. They have spring stuff in now, so you should be able to find winter clothes on deep sale. I got my sturdy, stomping winter boots from there.
posted by maudlin at 12:40 PM on February 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

When it was really cold recently, I just found myself adding to the clothes I was already wearing - two pairs of socks, leggings under pants, two sweaters, two pairs of gloves (or gloves under mittens). If you have no idea when you may be asked to walk around outside, you can keep these items in a bag on your person. Do you have a fleece? If you throw that on under your coat, that should help.

That said, Toronto has a lot of covered walkways. I wouldn't worry too much. If those that you're visiting have had guests before, they may have extra supplies to share.
posted by kat518 at 12:41 PM on February 25, 2013

I assume that you're NOT visiting from London, Ontario (a small city about an hour from Toronto).

I'm from Toronto and I've lived in the UK for a few years. I wear the similar winter clothes in Toronto that I did in the UK, only I wear more layers and I make sure that I have a hat. The big difference is the coat: in the UK, I could get away with a jumper and a light coat, in Toronto I wear a jumper and a full winter coat (a long wool one - not as warm as a parka, but sufficient for Toronto with a jumper).

If you're not going to be here long, you can probably get away without buying new clothes. I would use heavy layering of your existing clothes (eg undershirt, shirt, jumper, maybe a second jumper) under your regular winter coat, even if it's only a trench coat or lighter. If you're worried about your legs, wear leggings or stockings under your skirt/trousers (I like BHS 70 denier tights, myself - I stocked up before I moved).

But you absolutely do need to wear a hat, scarf and gloves/mittens.
posted by jb at 12:44 PM on February 25, 2013

Yeah - fellow Canadian, currently living in places where it gets down to about -50. Your big concern in -15 or so is being dry. Waterproof and high-ish boots. With a good sole - if it snows and the sidewalks aren't super-plowed, walking is uncomfortable due to the slipping and gripping you do (like it tires my feet out). Nothing that hurts your feet.

Wool socks are good. Agreed on the toque, gloves are key, and scarves are always nice, depends on the coat you have. Realistically I have just been wearing my coat (sort of like that) all winter with a dress shirt and undershirt and been fine for 5-6 km at a time. But I am a crazy person, you may want a bit more, not being used to the weather.

Jeans/Khakis by themselves do get cold on the bad days, so bring some leggings or something.

Don't worry too much, Toronto is very pretty in the winter!
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:46 PM on February 25, 2013

Also: I've been walking around Toronto this winter in a pair of Doc Marten shoes even when it's freezing. When it's wet, I've worn wellies with extra socks. It's not ideal, but if you don't want to buy specialized foot gear you could probably get away with similar.

If you do want to buy winter gear, Toronto will be cheaper than London, UK. I second the recommendation for Mark's Work Wearhouse , or Mark's (as they are trying to rebrand to). Just plain old Sears is fine for boots.
posted by jb at 12:49 PM on February 25, 2013

Do keep in mind that the interiors of buildings in Canada/the northern US tend to be very well-heated, and generally well-insulated in winter, which is another reason to wear layers so you can adjust accordingly.

I in fact sometimes find that buildings are over-heated, especially as we move into this "shoulder season" of early springtime, which is more prone to wild temperature swings.
posted by andrewesque at 12:53 PM on February 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

If you do opt for long underwear as one of your layers, I'm a big fan of silk (mens, womens). They're lightweight but warm and don't end up stinky like some of the synthetics do. I have pairs in both black and ivory which can aid in versatility.

I also have a couple of light-weight Smartwool tops (short sleeve and long sleeve) that work great.
posted by hapax_legomenon at 1:05 PM on February 25, 2013

Response by poster: Oh, in answer to "how long am I there?". Sunday to Thursday. And then the following week for a day. And then two weeks after that for a couple of days. I travel a lot, and this is a North America trip.
posted by acalthla at 1:26 PM on February 25, 2013

Oh, so if you're going to be here for just a few days, just layer whatever clothing you have on hand under your existing winter wear and only buy what you really need -- a cute toque, good boots, lined gloves, wool socks, long underwear if you don't have tights. That should all keep you warm enough for the remains of the cold.

Plus, there's a decent chance that your second visit could find us above 10C. Of course, it will get cold again, but your layers, good boots, etc. should suffice.
posted by maudlin at 1:46 PM on February 25, 2013

So, admittedly I'm the guy that's not wearing a coat or jacket today in Buffalo when it's 4-5C outside.

But still... unless your trip involves long walks at 4AM, you'll be fine with whatever coat or jacket you have already and, if you don't have them, a toque and decently-insulating gloves
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:57 PM on February 25, 2013

Best answer: Torontonian here. That -12 C is what it feels like in the wind, and it's biting in those moments but not all the time. Currently, it's hovering around freezing so I was out this afternoon with wool coat & wool socks but uninsulated boots & jeans with no long johns. If Saturday's forecast comes to pass: long johns, long sleeves, sweater, gloves, hat, scarf, insulated boots & wool coat.

As a plus-sized woman living in Toronto, I find Marks Work Wearhouse a disappointment. Additionelle has just opened a new (convenient) location at Yonge & Dundas, next to the Eaton Center. There will be a tiny selection of winter coats available.

However, I will be shocked if anyone from your business suggests you stand around in the cold in unsuitable clothing.

I think insulated footwear is the most important thing, and will lend you something if necessary/possible.

If you don't have long johns, leggings will help.

Layering is really key to staying warm.
posted by Heart_on_Sleeve at 2:47 PM on February 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

If you're going to be inside for most of the day, don't wear long johns under your regular pants. You'll be way too hot. Bring them with you, and if someone suggests a leisurely walk through the cold, just go to the restroom and put them on. Seriously, being hot in an overheated conference room is worse than being a tiny bit cold while you get from the hotel to the office building!
posted by barnone at 2:56 PM on February 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

One key insight that made winter a LOT better for me - make sure your feet are warm and dry at all times. Thick woolen socks, possibly with under-socks, and waterproof footwear to walk through slush. There's nothing worse than stepping into slush on your way into a meeting and then sitting through an important thing with your feet slowly going numb.

And yes, what everyone else said - layer, avoid cotton, minimize skin exposure, stay indoors as much as possible.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:26 PM on February 25, 2013

I'm just adding to the chorus of longish wool coat + sweater(s) + warm scarf + hat. I lived in Toronto for three years and never needed anything more than that.
posted by pravit at 4:45 PM on February 25, 2013

If you're planning on buying what you need when you get here, and would be happy to just get a bunch of cheap stuff to layer, a good place to go is the west side of spadina between dundas and college - there's a number of clothing stores with pretty much everything out on the sidewalk on racks, and it's all very inexpensive. Hats, gloves, scarves, hoodies, pashminas, socks, tights, all for a couple bucks. I even saw winter jackets with fuzzy hoods for $14. It's in chinatown, so go for dumplings or pho while you're there.

A big pashmina scarf is particularly good; weather in Toronto is very changeable, so an accessory that can be worn lots of different ways is great. Warm day - wear it with a sweater, be happy you don't have to lug around a coat. Medium day - drape it around your shoulders outside the coat, feel elegant and european. Cold day - wrap it around your neck tucked into your coat - look hip and trendy. Really stinking freezing day - wrap it around your head and neck babooska style, and who cares how it looks.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:50 PM on February 25, 2013

Also, sunglasses! Toronto is cold but very sunny! You'll especially need them if the snow stays on the ground!
posted by typewriter at 5:36 AM on February 26, 2013

I might be expected to smile and show an interest when someone wants to take me for a two-hour stroll around their exciting wildlife park or something

The snow (possibly melted and refrozen into ice) will still be covering said park this weekend. Most parkland in the city doesn't have winter maintenance. Nobody's going to ask you to go for a walk through that.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:14 AM on February 26, 2013

Memail sent.
posted by ceribus peribus at 3:34 PM on February 26, 2013

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