Am I a bad person trying to control my partner?
February 6, 2013 6:44 AM Subscribe
Am I a terrible person? My partner and I have been dating for 3.5 years, living together for one. In that time, he's cut off contact with two of his friends who were also significant exes.
I know from AskMe and otherwise how much of a red flag it is when you stop talking to friends as a result of a relationship, and I'm concerned that I'm unintentionally being controlling.
The first ex was The One Who Got Away. They were never technically a couple in their 15 years of acquaintance, but always promised each other the future and shared closer intimacy than many of his actual relationships. They had a falling out a few years ago and broke up without explicitly saying so, and AFAIK continued to email and just ignored it. (They've never lived in the same place.)
For a long time I felt like I was secondary to her, and that he was just waiting around for her. This was exacerbated by the fact that we were long distance for some time, so how was emailing me different from emailing her? After a year of LDR it came out randomly that he never told her about being in a relationship because it "wasn't relevant" (although it turns out that she'd known all along via mutual friends). I let him know that was unacceptable, he admitted that I was right that he'd had her on a pedestal, and promised to do better.
Anyway, they continued talking by email and chat almost every day. It didn't help that she was "uninterested in relationships" and had few others in her life. Even after we moved in together, pretty much the only recurring fight we had was about her. I wasn't worried about an emotional affair at all, but he had a pretty severe case of mentionitis and hung on her word and approval in a way that made me really uncomfortable.
About six months ago, she said something that was a little too presumptuous in her right to comment on his life right after another big fight we'd had, and he decided harmony in our relationship was more important than continuing to talk to her, so they stopped communicating.
The other ex was his first significant girlfriend and the impetus for a decision that shaped much of his adult life. I have no problem with their friendship and like her a fair bit, and she's always been friendly to me and supportive of the relationship. They started IMing regularly again around the same time that he stopped talking to the first ex, and chat a fair bit during the work day and occasionally on the weekends.
Last week, I glanced at his laptop when I brought him a snack, and saw a message to her that was...not inappropriate as in cheating, but something you don't send another woman if you have a girlfriend. I called him out, he went from "what did I do?" to "holy shit what have I done" in about a half second, I left to clear my head, and when I got back he told me that they had mutually decided to stop talking for a while. He admitted that they had become more familiar than was appropriate, that he was absolutely in the wrong, and that he had blurred boundaries because he's known her for so long he thought of them more as two girlfriends. (She is apparently also furious at him, because she assumed that I'd been cleared about their kind of chatter.)
So now he's stopped talking to two of his best friends as a result of dating me, and I feel awful even though I also don't think I'm particularly in the wrong. I want him to have people he can confide in and I encourage him to reach out to friends, but I'd (selfishly) like those friendships to not come at the cost of my peace of mind. He's been closer with female friends (who are exes) than with male friends all his life, and I know one of the reasons he leans on far-away friends is because he doesn't have a great support network locally.
We've talked a lot about this, and he says that these are compromises that he is willing to make for the relationship and he doesn't expect to start resenting me for it. I've told him I would be okay if he wanted to keep talking to the second ex, but he says he doesn't want to deal with that. I know he hates making me upset, and I worry that my anxiety (which I am taking meds for and which he's been very supportive of) is making him suppress...something.
I'm the first girlfriend to move in with him, we love each other immensely, have fantastic chemistry, communicate well otherwise, laugh about everything, and spend 24/7 together without getting on each other's nerves. I want to think these two incidents are unique incidents that don't constitute a bigger problem pattern. I guess I'm asking for a sanity check that I'm not being super unreasonable or controlling. If I am, halp, how do I stop? Otherwise, how do I stop feeling guilty?
I know from AskMe and otherwise how much of a red flag it is when you stop talking to friends as a result of a relationship, and I'm concerned that I'm unintentionally being controlling.
The first ex was The One Who Got Away. They were never technically a couple in their 15 years of acquaintance, but always promised each other the future and shared closer intimacy than many of his actual relationships. They had a falling out a few years ago and broke up without explicitly saying so, and AFAIK continued to email and just ignored it. (They've never lived in the same place.)
For a long time I felt like I was secondary to her, and that he was just waiting around for her. This was exacerbated by the fact that we were long distance for some time, so how was emailing me different from emailing her? After a year of LDR it came out randomly that he never told her about being in a relationship because it "wasn't relevant" (although it turns out that she'd known all along via mutual friends). I let him know that was unacceptable, he admitted that I was right that he'd had her on a pedestal, and promised to do better.
Anyway, they continued talking by email and chat almost every day. It didn't help that she was "uninterested in relationships" and had few others in her life. Even after we moved in together, pretty much the only recurring fight we had was about her. I wasn't worried about an emotional affair at all, but he had a pretty severe case of mentionitis and hung on her word and approval in a way that made me really uncomfortable.
About six months ago, she said something that was a little too presumptuous in her right to comment on his life right after another big fight we'd had, and he decided harmony in our relationship was more important than continuing to talk to her, so they stopped communicating.
The other ex was his first significant girlfriend and the impetus for a decision that shaped much of his adult life. I have no problem with their friendship and like her a fair bit, and she's always been friendly to me and supportive of the relationship. They started IMing regularly again around the same time that he stopped talking to the first ex, and chat a fair bit during the work day and occasionally on the weekends.
Last week, I glanced at his laptop when I brought him a snack, and saw a message to her that was...not inappropriate as in cheating, but something you don't send another woman if you have a girlfriend. I called him out, he went from "what did I do?" to "holy shit what have I done" in about a half second, I left to clear my head, and when I got back he told me that they had mutually decided to stop talking for a while. He admitted that they had become more familiar than was appropriate, that he was absolutely in the wrong, and that he had blurred boundaries because he's known her for so long he thought of them more as two girlfriends. (She is apparently also furious at him, because she assumed that I'd been cleared about their kind of chatter.)
So now he's stopped talking to two of his best friends as a result of dating me, and I feel awful even though I also don't think I'm particularly in the wrong. I want him to have people he can confide in and I encourage him to reach out to friends, but I'd (selfishly) like those friendships to not come at the cost of my peace of mind. He's been closer with female friends (who are exes) than with male friends all his life, and I know one of the reasons he leans on far-away friends is because he doesn't have a great support network locally.
We've talked a lot about this, and he says that these are compromises that he is willing to make for the relationship and he doesn't expect to start resenting me for it. I've told him I would be okay if he wanted to keep talking to the second ex, but he says he doesn't want to deal with that. I know he hates making me upset, and I worry that my anxiety (which I am taking meds for and which he's been very supportive of) is making him suppress...something.
I'm the first girlfriend to move in with him, we love each other immensely, have fantastic chemistry, communicate well otherwise, laugh about everything, and spend 24/7 together without getting on each other's nerves. I want to think these two incidents are unique incidents that don't constitute a bigger problem pattern. I guess I'm asking for a sanity check that I'm not being super unreasonable or controlling. If I am, halp, how do I stop? Otherwise, how do I stop feeling guilty?
It sounds like this guy has been accustomed to one mode of relationship with his girlfriends for a long while, and hasn't quite learned what's appropriate now that he has, well, a girlfriend.
It's hard to know if you are overreacting without knowing what the content of his conversations were, but these excommunications are all self-imposed. As long as you make it clear that you are okay with him having friendships with these women provided that there are boundaries, I don't see you as being too controlling.
That said, he may be scared off of any friendships for awhile, so be sure you help him out and seek out friends outside of your relationship so he doesn't become isolated.
posted by Think_Long at 6:51 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's hard to know if you are overreacting without knowing what the content of his conversations were, but these excommunications are all self-imposed. As long as you make it clear that you are okay with him having friendships with these women provided that there are boundaries, I don't see you as being too controlling.
That said, he may be scared off of any friendships for awhile, so be sure you help him out and seek out friends outside of your relationship so he doesn't become isolated.
posted by Think_Long at 6:51 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't know. You talk about your bf and his interactions with these people but don't much talk about your interactions with your bf.
posted by munchingzombie at 6:58 AM on February 6, 2013
posted by munchingzombie at 6:58 AM on February 6, 2013
I think that people who are being unreasonable and controlling rarely ask themselves (or AskMeFi) if they are being unreasonable and controlling. I also think that people who are being unreasonable and controlling rarely have discussions with their partners about their concerns about being unreasonable and controlling.
I think you're doing exactly what you should be doing.
posted by Betelgeuse at 6:59 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think you're doing exactly what you should be doing.
posted by Betelgeuse at 6:59 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
I want to think these two incidents are unique incidents that don't constitute a bigger problem pattern.
Of course you want to think that. Anyone would. But this is how the guy operates. As soon as one intimate female penpal was off-limits, he immediately took up with another. In both cases he kept you in the dark about it and downgraded your relationship in his conversations.
I let him know that was unacceptable, he admitted that I was right that he'd had her on a pedestal, and promised to do better.
Although I cringe at the promise to "do better," (you're not his mother), it doesn't appear that he's fulfilled that promise.
posted by headnsouth at 6:59 AM on February 6, 2013 [23 favorites]
Of course you want to think that. Anyone would. But this is how the guy operates. As soon as one intimate female penpal was off-limits, he immediately took up with another. In both cases he kept you in the dark about it and downgraded your relationship in his conversations.
I let him know that was unacceptable, he admitted that I was right that he'd had her on a pedestal, and promised to do better.
Although I cringe at the promise to "do better," (you're not his mother), it doesn't appear that he's fulfilled that promise.
posted by headnsouth at 6:59 AM on February 6, 2013 [23 favorites]
I want to think these two incidents are unique incidents that don't constitute a bigger problem pattern.
There is no such thing as a two identical unique incidents. The man has a big problem with boundaries and setting expectations. I would not be surprised if he's been talking to both on the DL.
Keep an eye on him.
posted by inturnaround at 7:04 AM on February 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
There is no such thing as a two identical unique incidents. The man has a big problem with boundaries and setting expectations. I would not be surprised if he's been talking to both on the DL.
Keep an eye on him.
posted by inturnaround at 7:04 AM on February 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
So, most straight people have pretty high "fences" around what is "appropriate"; they like to build these walls. There's range of behaviors, from looking at other people, to talking to exes, to being "flirty," etc., that are usually considered "out of bounds."
There's a reasoning behind that, by the way! The reasoning being that people cheat on each other all the time.
However... I feel like this kind of jealousness and scrutiny and hyper-observancy of boundaries is exhausting. My whole thing with marriage is: we are adults. If he is going to cheat on me or whatever, he is going to find a way. And it won't be something dumb and obvious like girlfriendy chatting on IM with an ex.
So he is allowed to have private conversations. His email box is private; I will not look at it. His iPhone is private. What he uses it for is none of my business. His job is to respect our agreements, and I am not the supervisor of that job.
As well, he needs to be able to complain about me to SOMEONE WHO IS NOT ME. (Because I don't want to hear it! I just want to hear the end of that conversation, not the whole torturous thing.) If he needs to blow off steam, or just have an escape, or do whatever, if he needs to talk frankly to people who know him very well, he ABSOLUTELY should. I will benefit from this.
And you note quite rightly that isolation is deathly for relationships. I don't think you're a bad person. But I do worry that he's being boxed up for minor infractions. That being said, your boundaries will differ from all the rest of ours, and what matters is the agreements and sense made in your relationship, so, follow your heart and talk it out.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:16 AM on February 6, 2013 [31 favorites]
There's a reasoning behind that, by the way! The reasoning being that people cheat on each other all the time.
However... I feel like this kind of jealousness and scrutiny and hyper-observancy of boundaries is exhausting. My whole thing with marriage is: we are adults. If he is going to cheat on me or whatever, he is going to find a way. And it won't be something dumb and obvious like girlfriendy chatting on IM with an ex.
So he is allowed to have private conversations. His email box is private; I will not look at it. His iPhone is private. What he uses it for is none of my business. His job is to respect our agreements, and I am not the supervisor of that job.
As well, he needs to be able to complain about me to SOMEONE WHO IS NOT ME. (Because I don't want to hear it! I just want to hear the end of that conversation, not the whole torturous thing.) If he needs to blow off steam, or just have an escape, or do whatever, if he needs to talk frankly to people who know him very well, he ABSOLUTELY should. I will benefit from this.
And you note quite rightly that isolation is deathly for relationships. I don't think you're a bad person. But I do worry that he's being boxed up for minor infractions. That being said, your boundaries will differ from all the rest of ours, and what matters is the agreements and sense made in your relationship, so, follow your heart and talk it out.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:16 AM on February 6, 2013 [31 favorites]
Everyone I know in successful long term relationships eventually had to give up having any sort of intimate, although still platonic, relationship they had with an ex. It might have taken a year or two, but they all did it. It sucked and it hurt, but it was necessary. Seriously, I don't know one person who has maintained a close friendship with a *significant* ex once they had been in a new relationship for over a year or two. I myself have been dropped like a hot potato by an ex who I was close friends with for far longer than we dated and who had maintained a close friendship with for a year after breaking up. It sucked, but I understood and while it still hurts I think it was necessary for both of us to move on.
I think the term "emotional affair" is really overused and inflammatory. I don't think it is the same as "cheating" but it's still a problem. I've just never seen someone have this level of sustained closeness with an ex and it not interfere with their new relationship.
I eventually came to realize that one should stay friends with their ex in the sense of hey it's a mutual friend's wedding and I should be able to go to that without it being horribly awkward and upsetting for everyone involved. Or even hey it's Saturday night and 20 of my closest friends are going to a bar, including the ex, and that is not an automatic deal breaker. However, even this last one is a pretty high bar for most people.
I don't think people should go around telling their significant other to ditch their exes as friends, but I do think most people need to make that hard decision for themselves. Maybe not immediately upon entering a new relationship, but eventually. So yeah I don't think you did anything wrong. You didn't demand he end these friendship, you demanded these friendships have appropriate boundaries. When he realized he wasn't capable of maintaining these boundaries, he made the decision to drastically scale back the friendships, which was really the only reliable option he had left. It's a far less extreme version of hey I do stupid stuff and get out of control when I'm drinking so I have to give up drinking. He can't maintain the delicate balance of having these women as friends, while still keeping them at an appropriate distance, so he can't continue with them at all. For what it's worth I haven't know anyone else that's been able to do it either, so I wouldn't been too concerned that he can't.
It's funny I actually almost think of this as a milestone in a lot of people's relationships. A real sign of commitment. I had one friend that wouldn't drop an ex as a close friend for awhile and when she finally did it was very clearly because she had decided this relationship was the real deal. In a roundabout way she said that she wasn't willing to burn bridges with the ex until she was in a relationship that would lead to marriage and then she finally did and got engaged and married not too long after.
posted by whoaali at 7:21 AM on February 6, 2013 [14 favorites]
I think the term "emotional affair" is really overused and inflammatory. I don't think it is the same as "cheating" but it's still a problem. I've just never seen someone have this level of sustained closeness with an ex and it not interfere with their new relationship.
I eventually came to realize that one should stay friends with their ex in the sense of hey it's a mutual friend's wedding and I should be able to go to that without it being horribly awkward and upsetting for everyone involved. Or even hey it's Saturday night and 20 of my closest friends are going to a bar, including the ex, and that is not an automatic deal breaker. However, even this last one is a pretty high bar for most people.
I don't think people should go around telling their significant other to ditch their exes as friends, but I do think most people need to make that hard decision for themselves. Maybe not immediately upon entering a new relationship, but eventually. So yeah I don't think you did anything wrong. You didn't demand he end these friendship, you demanded these friendships have appropriate boundaries. When he realized he wasn't capable of maintaining these boundaries, he made the decision to drastically scale back the friendships, which was really the only reliable option he had left. It's a far less extreme version of hey I do stupid stuff and get out of control when I'm drinking so I have to give up drinking. He can't maintain the delicate balance of having these women as friends, while still keeping them at an appropriate distance, so he can't continue with them at all. For what it's worth I haven't know anyone else that's been able to do it either, so I wouldn't been too concerned that he can't.
It's funny I actually almost think of this as a milestone in a lot of people's relationships. A real sign of commitment. I had one friend that wouldn't drop an ex as a close friend for awhile and when she finally did it was very clearly because she had decided this relationship was the real deal. In a roundabout way she said that she wasn't willing to burn bridges with the ex until she was in a relationship that would lead to marriage and then she finally did and got engaged and married not too long after.
posted by whoaali at 7:21 AM on February 6, 2013 [14 favorites]
I think you guys need to talk this out and get to the root of it. He needs to really hear that he's harming your feelings of security and behaving in an untrustworthy way. He needs to examine why he needs these boundary blurring relationships with these women. It sure is flattering to have this attention from "girlfriends" but since he's got the real deal in front of him, which he could lose with this behavior, why does he need it?
Write off these women. You can't make him re-friend them appropriately and I don't know why you'd want to test your own patience by encouraging him to get back in touch. Just let these relationships lie for now and work on re-establishing your relationship. Tell him you are not his mother and have no interest in monitoring his relationships and if he treats you that way, you two are not going to work out.
Best of luck.
posted by amanda at 7:22 AM on February 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
Write off these women. You can't make him re-friend them appropriately and I don't know why you'd want to test your own patience by encouraging him to get back in touch. Just let these relationships lie for now and work on re-establishing your relationship. Tell him you are not his mother and have no interest in monitoring his relationships and if he treats you that way, you two are not going to work out.
Best of luck.
posted by amanda at 7:22 AM on February 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
From what I can tell, it doesn't sound like you're being controlling. It sounds like you've called your boyfriend's attention to moments when he's being inappropriate in a way that bothers you and he's aware of his own tendencies and is removing himself from harm's way. If you were asking him to cut people out of his life, that would be another thing.
I'd be more concerned if his response to your raised concerns was more along the lines of, "fuck you, you can't tell me what to do," but it sounds like the discussions have mostly been relatively level-headed.
He's a guy who enjoys attention from women, and maybe that will go to a bad place and maybe it won't. It's possible he just hasn't yet gotten it through his head that your best, most intimate friends should probably not be people you want to sleep with (if you have no intention of acting on that) - it's asking for drama. Not cheating, necessarily, but drama.
The answer to your question is that you are not being unreasonable or controlling in these requests, as presented.
Having said that, the fact that he's keeping his relationship a secret from these women is a huge klaxon. It doesn't mean he's planning anything, necessarily, but it does mean he's being kind of an idiot about all this. If you had made the exact same post but he had been up front with these women about you, I'd probably be suggesting you give the dude some privacy. But he wasn't, and that's a concern. I'm not saying you should bug out, just keep your eyes open.
As far as how to stop feeling guilty: We aren't privy to your moment-by-moment interactions with this guy so I have no idea what his tone is like or how your conversations go. What I'm saying is that, for all I know, he's totally chill and you're just generally super anxious; or for all I know, you're raising concerns in a calm way and he's passive-aggressively playing the martyr and guilt-tripping you. No idea. If it's the former, communication and medication seem the best route; if it's the latter, just save yourself the trouble and walk away. But it could be any one of a million things in between, so it's really hard to say.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:26 AM on February 6, 2013 [7 favorites]
I'd be more concerned if his response to your raised concerns was more along the lines of, "fuck you, you can't tell me what to do," but it sounds like the discussions have mostly been relatively level-headed.
He's a guy who enjoys attention from women, and maybe that will go to a bad place and maybe it won't. It's possible he just hasn't yet gotten it through his head that your best, most intimate friends should probably not be people you want to sleep with (if you have no intention of acting on that) - it's asking for drama. Not cheating, necessarily, but drama.
The answer to your question is that you are not being unreasonable or controlling in these requests, as presented.
Having said that, the fact that he's keeping his relationship a secret from these women is a huge klaxon. It doesn't mean he's planning anything, necessarily, but it does mean he's being kind of an idiot about all this. If you had made the exact same post but he had been up front with these women about you, I'd probably be suggesting you give the dude some privacy. But he wasn't, and that's a concern. I'm not saying you should bug out, just keep your eyes open.
As far as how to stop feeling guilty: We aren't privy to your moment-by-moment interactions with this guy so I have no idea what his tone is like or how your conversations go. What I'm saying is that, for all I know, he's totally chill and you're just generally super anxious; or for all I know, you're raising concerns in a calm way and he's passive-aggressively playing the martyr and guilt-tripping you. No idea. If it's the former, communication and medication seem the best route; if it's the latter, just save yourself the trouble and walk away. But it could be any one of a million things in between, so it's really hard to say.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:26 AM on February 6, 2013 [7 favorites]
hey: it doesn't have to be this way. when it's good you don't wonder who else he's emailing, or IMing, and you have no doubt that his friends know about you because he's either proudly introducing you to them in person or proudly mentioning you in correspondence, "latest news from my life is that i moved in with [GF] this month..." etc. when i get into a relationship, that's not "irrelevant" to my close friends - if anything they are the ones i want to share the news with.
sounds like you love a man you do not trust, and for good reason. but since you're really interested in staying with him, stop looking at the IM screen, stop thinking about his exes, and realize you're the one he chose. don't tell him to get back in touch with them. when he does something that makes you feel threatened or betrayed call him out and ask why he won't put up a boundary.
if anything, make meeting more people in your area a goal, then he can make more local (male? platonic!!) friends and develop a stronger support network.
i also wonder what he got out of those friendships and staying in touch in this particular way, what need it fulfilled. you guys should talk about it.
tl;dr, you're not being unreasonable and controlling and you shouldn't feel guilty.
posted by zdravo at 7:28 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
sounds like you love a man you do not trust, and for good reason. but since you're really interested in staying with him, stop looking at the IM screen, stop thinking about his exes, and realize you're the one he chose. don't tell him to get back in touch with them. when he does something that makes you feel threatened or betrayed call him out and ask why he won't put up a boundary.
if anything, make meeting more people in your area a goal, then he can make more local (male? platonic!!) friends and develop a stronger support network.
i also wonder what he got out of those friendships and staying in touch in this particular way, what need it fulfilled. you guys should talk about it.
tl;dr, you're not being unreasonable and controlling and you shouldn't feel guilty.
posted by zdravo at 7:28 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
The unease you're feeling isn't guilt; it's anticipation of another slip-up on his part.
I'd (selfishly) like those friendships to not come at the cost of my peace of mind.
Come on, you know you haven't been selfish. But you have had to be rationally self interested, and that's what's eating you -- the fact that you had to be the one to make those calls, because without you stepping in, the boundaries would have continued to be breached. And you're wondering what other ones will be breached in the future and cause you to have to step in and be the bad mommy, which is a bummer role to be thrust into.
The good news is, it sounds like he's agreed to improve both times. Nobody's perfect. Maybe there won't be a third time. People do learn, and it sounds like he loves and respects you and wants to do the right thing.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:35 AM on February 6, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'd (selfishly) like those friendships to not come at the cost of my peace of mind.
Come on, you know you haven't been selfish. But you have had to be rationally self interested, and that's what's eating you -- the fact that you had to be the one to make those calls, because without you stepping in, the boundaries would have continued to be breached. And you're wondering what other ones will be breached in the future and cause you to have to step in and be the bad mommy, which is a bummer role to be thrust into.
The good news is, it sounds like he's agreed to improve both times. Nobody's perfect. Maybe there won't be a third time. People do learn, and it sounds like he loves and respects you and wants to do the right thing.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:35 AM on February 6, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'm gonna go against the grain a little here and suggest that you two really need to have a conversation about boundaries and expectations, where you both honestly share what it means to you to be in a long-term relationship in terms of the kinds of interactions you have with other people in your circle. It may be that his nature is to be flirtatious with his friends, and has no intention of 'taking things further.' This may be more of an incompatibility that will need to be reconciled than a devastating betrayal. Given his response, it certainly seems like he thought it would be no big deal.
However, the more worrisome part of your question, to me, is that you make no mention of your feelings for him or your relationship, positive or otherwise. Do you really really love him and want to address some of the aspects that may make you both uncomfortable? Or are you there and he's doing something that you don't like and hurts your feelings so blah.
You don't seem to talk about your relationship at all, in a question about your relationship.
Also, nthing RJ Reynolds that private conversations should default to being private (if that's how you both want it). However, boundaries are something to be explicitly discussed.
posted by softlord at 7:41 AM on February 6, 2013
However, the more worrisome part of your question, to me, is that you make no mention of your feelings for him or your relationship, positive or otherwise. Do you really really love him and want to address some of the aspects that may make you both uncomfortable? Or are you there and he's doing something that you don't like and hurts your feelings so blah.
You don't seem to talk about your relationship at all, in a question about your relationship.
Also, nthing RJ Reynolds that private conversations should default to being private (if that's how you both want it). However, boundaries are something to be explicitly discussed.
posted by softlord at 7:41 AM on February 6, 2013
Uh, newsflash. These women aren't friends. They're his other girlfriends. You aren't in a monogamous relationship with this guy if he's still doing the email/chat thing with other women.
It would be different if they were coming over, hanging out, going out to dinner--with the both of you. But they're not.
Does he have male friends? Sure, sometimes they go off to see movies, or have beers, or whatever, but it's usually 50% dude-time and 50% them coming over to do gaming or watch a game on TV. In other words, friends.
Here's the difference: Friends are usually involved in the couple. Paramours are kept private.
Your boyfriend is immature and not in the same relationship that you're in. You really need to talk about this because it's undermining your confidence and making you question yourself.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:41 AM on February 6, 2013 [26 favorites]
It would be different if they were coming over, hanging out, going out to dinner--with the both of you. But they're not.
Does he have male friends? Sure, sometimes they go off to see movies, or have beers, or whatever, but it's usually 50% dude-time and 50% them coming over to do gaming or watch a game on TV. In other words, friends.
Here's the difference: Friends are usually involved in the couple. Paramours are kept private.
Your boyfriend is immature and not in the same relationship that you're in. You really need to talk about this because it's undermining your confidence and making you question yourself.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:41 AM on February 6, 2013 [26 favorites]
"Controlling" would be if you had told him "You are no longer allowed to talk to your exes ever and I will take away your computer if you do so."
You didn't do anything CLOSE to that. All you did was say "Hon, I'm a little uncomfortable about how close it seems you are with these particular ex-girlfriends." You have the right to do that. It is up to him to decide on his actions based on you stating how you feel - he could have come up with other things to do. He chose to not talk to those two people so much because he loves you and he values you.
Again, it is very important for you to understand that he chose to do this. And since it is his choice, this is not an example of you being "controlling" in any way.
I hate to break it to you, but you are in a healthy relationship. :-)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:44 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
You didn't do anything CLOSE to that. All you did was say "Hon, I'm a little uncomfortable about how close it seems you are with these particular ex-girlfriends." You have the right to do that. It is up to him to decide on his actions based on you stating how you feel - he could have come up with other things to do. He chose to not talk to those two people so much because he loves you and he values you.
Again, it is very important for you to understand that he chose to do this. And since it is his choice, this is not an example of you being "controlling" in any way.
I hate to break it to you, but you are in a healthy relationship. :-)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:44 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
> "Everyone I know in successful long term relationships eventually had to give up having any sort of intimate, although still platonic, relationship they had with an ex."
I am in the 11th year of my relationship, and I am still friends with several exes. As is my girlfriend. In fact, as it happens, over the holidays we invited one of her exes over for a dinner at my girlfriend's parents' house, and the next day the two of us dropped by to have brunch with one of my exes. So this comment strikes me as bizarre.
That being said, in response to the question, only you and your boyfriend can define what the boundaries of your relationship are. Without being in it, it is very difficult for an outsider to determine whether your boyfriend has been behaving inappropriately, or whether you have been making a big deal over very little.
But from your description, it doesn't sound like you've been pressuring him a lot. If true, that's a good sign that you're not being overly controlling.
posted by kyrademon at 7:52 AM on February 6, 2013 [9 favorites]
I am in the 11th year of my relationship, and I am still friends with several exes. As is my girlfriend. In fact, as it happens, over the holidays we invited one of her exes over for a dinner at my girlfriend's parents' house, and the next day the two of us dropped by to have brunch with one of my exes. So this comment strikes me as bizarre.
That being said, in response to the question, only you and your boyfriend can define what the boundaries of your relationship are. Without being in it, it is very difficult for an outsider to determine whether your boyfriend has been behaving inappropriately, or whether you have been making a big deal over very little.
But from your description, it doesn't sound like you've been pressuring him a lot. If true, that's a good sign that you're not being overly controlling.
posted by kyrademon at 7:52 AM on February 6, 2013 [9 favorites]
You don't sound too controlling to me. You sound just right - present, aware, engaged, but very cognizant about not suffocating him. That seems like a very reasonable and appropriate balance.
posted by Dansaman at 8:11 AM on February 6, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 8:11 AM on February 6, 2013
is making him suppress...something.
Only based on what you've written, it seems like you're suppressing some things. Namely, your feelings. You've written your question in such a way that the only emotion you mention feeling is guilt. That seems a little weird to me! It is okay to be mad at him. Are you suspicious of him? Step one to figuring this situation out is to be honest with yourself about how all of this has made you feel. It's clear it is affecting you.
posted by Katine at 8:25 AM on February 6, 2013 [5 favorites]
Only based on what you've written, it seems like you're suppressing some things. Namely, your feelings. You've written your question in such a way that the only emotion you mention feeling is guilt. That seems a little weird to me! It is okay to be mad at him. Are you suspicious of him? Step one to figuring this situation out is to be honest with yourself about how all of this has made you feel. It's clear it is affecting you.
posted by Katine at 8:25 AM on February 6, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yeah... I don't think you're being controlling, but I think you should watch out for signs that you can't trust him in the future. As in, you start to dislike the warden role that's been imposed on you by his immaturity and failure to think about his actions in relation to you. Losing trust can be really damaging to a relationship. When I've been in situations like this, I've always assumed the other person would resent me for "making a big deal" out of nothing or making them change, but it actually turned out that they'd be happy for the second chance and I'd get really resentful thinking about the lengths to which I'd have to go to manage the relationship (by myself) and feel heard.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:27 AM on February 6, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 8:27 AM on February 6, 2013 [7 favorites]
I think you should be focusing less on whether you're being controlling (you're not) and whether you're willing to stay with someone who acts like this unchecked. I'm not saying you should necessarily break up with him, but right now you need to be switching gears from worrying about your own behavior to collecting as much information as you can so you can come to a sober decision about this relationship. Have a conversation with him and pay very close attention to his responses both in content and tone.
I've never much seen the point in trying to police someone from cheating. If they have the impulse to cheat they aren't suitable partners, end of story. Why try to control their behavior? If they want to cheat, they will, and trying to police them will just make their behavior harder to detect. Better leave them to their own devices and take notes.
posted by timsneezed at 8:40 AM on February 6, 2013 [10 favorites]
I've never much seen the point in trying to police someone from cheating. If they have the impulse to cheat they aren't suitable partners, end of story. Why try to control their behavior? If they want to cheat, they will, and trying to police them will just make their behavior harder to detect. Better leave them to their own devices and take notes.
posted by timsneezed at 8:40 AM on February 6, 2013 [10 favorites]
I dated a guy just like this! Right down to the not being honest about his relationship status because it "wasn't relevant". Oh god the fights we had. I was a jealous insecure mess. He would swear up and down things had changed and then a month later I'd find out he was back to it again, just like you are.
I'm really sad to say this, but the only thing that fixed matters was to end the relationship. I have never, not a single time, been worried about a boyfriend's ex since. The guy I dated after had three good friends who were ex's he'd hang out with regularly and I was never once concerned. I'm not a jealous person. Those feelings were showing up because the person I was dating was inappropriate. You can't do anything about a person who doesn't think your existence is relevant when you are supposed to be one of their main supports.
I figured out later, from speaking to mutual friends, that all his ex's had gotten a touch crazy. He managed an excellent storm of devotion and caring balanced with that "it's not relevant" that just got people going. Sounds like your guy might have a few pages from that handbook.
posted by Dynex at 8:44 AM on February 6, 2013 [13 favorites]
I'm really sad to say this, but the only thing that fixed matters was to end the relationship. I have never, not a single time, been worried about a boyfriend's ex since. The guy I dated after had three good friends who were ex's he'd hang out with regularly and I was never once concerned. I'm not a jealous person. Those feelings were showing up because the person I was dating was inappropriate. You can't do anything about a person who doesn't think your existence is relevant when you are supposed to be one of their main supports.
I figured out later, from speaking to mutual friends, that all his ex's had gotten a touch crazy. He managed an excellent storm of devotion and caring balanced with that "it's not relevant" that just got people going. Sounds like your guy might have a few pages from that handbook.
posted by Dynex at 8:44 AM on February 6, 2013 [13 favorites]
Husband and I each have close friendships with one longtime ex and are friendly with some others (like, lunch once or twice a year friendly). But the close friends who are exes have a relationship with both of us now, and it's coo.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:05 AM on February 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:05 AM on February 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Having long, intimate, and continual chats with someone who (a) you hold long-term romantic hopes for, and (b) does not know about your real-life girlfriend because you purposely haven't mentioned you have one... Good Grief!!!
Dropping that intimacy when your irl girlfriend finds out what you are up to, but immediately replacing that intimate contact with a different ex? Not good.
I agree he sounds immature and that this is a pattern.
You live with him, right? Start making other plans just in case. This way, the next "slip up" won't feel dire, because you'll have an exit plan.
Yes, try talking to him in the meantime and such. It might be helpful for him if he could shift whatever needs these women were fulfilling into something less sneaky, but usually for men like this, being "sneaky" is the crux of the need. It's likely something left over from childhood where he snuck around and got a thrill from getting over on authority figures -- but do you really want to be in the role of "authority figure" with this guy for the rest of your life? Yuck!
To me, the fact that both times he immediately copped to the transgression within moments of being confronted with direct proof tells me he knows better, but does it anyway. If I were you, I'd have a hard time squaring this and remaining happy with him.
In short, you have nothing to feel guilty about.
posted by jbenben at 9:21 AM on February 6, 2013 [8 favorites]
Dropping that intimacy when your irl girlfriend finds out what you are up to, but immediately replacing that intimate contact with a different ex? Not good.
I agree he sounds immature and that this is a pattern.
You live with him, right? Start making other plans just in case. This way, the next "slip up" won't feel dire, because you'll have an exit plan.
Yes, try talking to him in the meantime and such. It might be helpful for him if he could shift whatever needs these women were fulfilling into something less sneaky, but usually for men like this, being "sneaky" is the crux of the need. It's likely something left over from childhood where he snuck around and got a thrill from getting over on authority figures -- but do you really want to be in the role of "authority figure" with this guy for the rest of your life? Yuck!
To me, the fact that both times he immediately copped to the transgression within moments of being confronted with direct proof tells me he knows better, but does it anyway. If I were you, I'd have a hard time squaring this and remaining happy with him.
In short, you have nothing to feel guilty about.
posted by jbenben at 9:21 AM on February 6, 2013 [8 favorites]
I don't think you did anything wrong, but I also strongly disagree with the people who are telling you that you can't trust him. It seems like you've had a problem crop up in your relationship that affects lots of relationships - the issue of boundaries with exes - and that you both handled it in a mature, respectful way. You can't expect not to ever have these kinds of problems, the best you can hope for is a relationship where you can handle them well. It looks like you've found that.
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:33 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:33 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
Last week, I glanced at his laptop when I brought him a snack, and saw a message to her that was...not inappropriate as in cheating, but something you don't send another woman if you have a girlfriend.
What exactly? If it wasn't cheating why was it inappropriate? It's important to know -- because everybody here is projecting their own experiences into your description.
I'm sorry, but my projection is that he said something like "We had great time together, hadn't we?", then you went crazy and then he said whatever you wanted to hear just to keep you calm. But that's just my projection.
posted by przepla at 9:35 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
What exactly? If it wasn't cheating why was it inappropriate? It's important to know -- because everybody here is projecting their own experiences into your description.
I'm sorry, but my projection is that he said something like "We had great time together, hadn't we?", then you went crazy and then he said whatever you wanted to hear just to keep you calm. But that's just my projection.
posted by przepla at 9:35 AM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
"If he is going to cheat on me or whatever, he is going to find a way. And it won't be something dumb and obvious like girlfriendy chatting on IM with an ex."
Well, actually, that is exactly how my kid's dad started cheating on me. Started with the chatting, and progressed to the web cam. While I was in the next room 8 months pregnant with his kid. I wasn't the jealous type either, then. Now I am.
I think your boundaries as you've stated them are absolutely perfectly fucking reasonable and I can not stand when someone accuses a woman of being controlling and mom-ish because she doesn't put up with your inappropriate bullshit. The problem isn't you, it's that he's immature and sneaky.
posted by celtalitha at 9:52 AM on February 6, 2013 [16 favorites]
Well, actually, that is exactly how my kid's dad started cheating on me. Started with the chatting, and progressed to the web cam. While I was in the next room 8 months pregnant with his kid. I wasn't the jealous type either, then. Now I am.
I think your boundaries as you've stated them are absolutely perfectly fucking reasonable and I can not stand when someone accuses a woman of being controlling and mom-ish because she doesn't put up with your inappropriate bullshit. The problem isn't you, it's that he's immature and sneaky.
posted by celtalitha at 9:52 AM on February 6, 2013 [16 favorites]
I'm so sorry to tell you this, but I've seen this so many times that I think I know what's going on. It's not good.
My gut tells me that your so called boyfriend is using you as a placeholder. This isn't about who he's talking to. It's about sussing out whether he's in the relationship 100%.
He's not. The "one that got away" is the woman he pines for and you're a default until the timing is right to have the real relationship with her, the one where he's all in. The reason he's with you is because he likes being with a girlfriend who feels guilty for asking him to participate. You second guess having insecure feelings (which you should) and he can basically do whatever he wants, get intimacy and support and love, while not having to be 100% in. He's waiting for another relationship to hatch, probably with the girl who doesn't know about you. He didn't want to tell her just in case she might be available.
You didn't do anything wrong. He's wrong. The feeling you have is the tension between the bad feeling/gut check and your love and hope for the relationship. You want to take the blame because you love him and it's easier to feel guilty than feel the pain of not being loved the way you want to be loved. And cohabitation is a big investment.
posted by discopolo at 11:07 AM on February 6, 2013 [15 favorites]
My gut tells me that your so called boyfriend is using you as a placeholder. This isn't about who he's talking to. It's about sussing out whether he's in the relationship 100%.
He's not. The "one that got away" is the woman he pines for and you're a default until the timing is right to have the real relationship with her, the one where he's all in. The reason he's with you is because he likes being with a girlfriend who feels guilty for asking him to participate. You second guess having insecure feelings (which you should) and he can basically do whatever he wants, get intimacy and support and love, while not having to be 100% in. He's waiting for another relationship to hatch, probably with the girl who doesn't know about you. He didn't want to tell her just in case she might be available.
You didn't do anything wrong. He's wrong. The feeling you have is the tension between the bad feeling/gut check and your love and hope for the relationship. You want to take the blame because you love him and it's easier to feel guilty than feel the pain of not being loved the way you want to be loved. And cohabitation is a big investment.
posted by discopolo at 11:07 AM on February 6, 2013 [15 favorites]
Followup from the OP:
Hey everyone, I really appreciate all your responses here. I honestly kind of dreaded posting this question because AskMe can be a bit liberal with the tough love, heh, but everyone has been super kind and thoughtful. I wanted to leave a few notes of clarification about things that have kept cropping up:posted by LobsterMitten at 1:08 PM on February 6, 2013
1. I didn't go details about my feelings because my god, the question was getting long. Seriously, the first draft was 1,200 words, and once we bring my feels into it...well, see below.
What the rest of the relationship is like: I love him. A lot. He's the first person I want to tell new things to and the person I want to fall asleep with. We can be silly, we can sit in silence while we do our own thing, but we also have SRS DISCUSHUNS about politics and education and encroachment of executive power or whatever. We have a system in place for checking in and raising issues with each other (a conversation that more often than not ends up being "Everything good?" "Yep!"). We go on road trips and spend the entire 4 hours in the car chatting. He's been super supportive of me getting my shit together in terms of mental health, and with my career ambitions, and he's very appreciative that I'm helping him work through a bunch of his own (unrelated) issues.
In other words, things are absolutely fab in other ways, which contributes to why this nags at me, because it seems like such a dumb fly in an otherwise great ointment (and what if I'M the one ruining the ointment etc etc).
2. The second ex has known about me from the beginning, and thinks I'm excellent for him. The first ex was the one from whom I was kept secret by omission. There's lots of baggage about what she symbolized in his life, and they apparently also just don't talk about their personal lives, period (which I also think is weird but whatever). He apparently did start mentioning me more near the end and she knew when I moved in. I'm probably never going to be fully okay with her, and I'm starting to come to terms with that.
In addition, apart from the (rather glaring) first year, I've always known about his correspondence with both women.
He is super open about me otherwise, to coworkers, friends, new people we meet, etc. His family adores me as well. I'm not being hidden (again, apart from that first year, with the ex #1).
3. I genuinely believe I would react differently if the women lived near us and could just come over for dinner or something. Like I said, the reason I'm cool with the second ex even now is that she's always been friendly to me and she's a known entity. He's offered to introduce me to the first ex via email, but by then I just didn't want to get involved.
4. I'm by nature a jealous person (which I am also working on!), so I don't think it's as simple as "this is a bad fit for you". I do really need everyone to believe me that no, he is not boning these other women (or trying to). I don't even think ex #1 wants a relationship, just that they've had weird boundaries for so long that they didn't know how to adjust.
I also don't have any doubts about his intentions to make a long-term relationship with me work out. I'm anxious and have trust issues about a lot of things, but that is not one of them. As some of you have suggested, I think it's much more likely to be a case of him 1) not being used to being in a relationship that is Serious Business In A Concrete Way and 2) yeah, he probably does like the attention. I've mentioned point #2 obliquely, but maybe it's worth talking about again in context.
5. Private correspondence is absolutely private for both of us (except for bills, which I handle).
I think that's everything. See, this is what happens when I let myself ramble. Again, I'm very grateful to everyone for chiming in.
I do really need everyone to believe me that no, he is not boning these other women (or trying to).
You seem to be drawing a firm distinction between an emotional affair and a physical one. Secrets and lies happen with both.
Your question was about whether you were being controlling in the face of these betrayals and although the majority of responses were "no you're not controlling, he's crossing the line" your followup backtracks fully from seeing your partner in the wrong at all and paints him in the most positive possible light.
By contrast, you paint yourself in the most negative (by nature a jealous person, what if I'M the one ruining the ointment, this is what happens when I let myself ramble)... You are not at fault for feeling uncomfortable when your partner lies to you, carries on emotional affairs, and pretends you don't even exist to other people.
posted by headnsouth at 1:39 PM on February 6, 2013 [6 favorites]
You seem to be drawing a firm distinction between an emotional affair and a physical one. Secrets and lies happen with both.
Your question was about whether you were being controlling in the face of these betrayals and although the majority of responses were "no you're not controlling, he's crossing the line" your followup backtracks fully from seeing your partner in the wrong at all and paints him in the most positive possible light.
By contrast, you paint yourself in the most negative (by nature a jealous person, what if I'M the one ruining the ointment, this is what happens when I let myself ramble)... You are not at fault for feeling uncomfortable when your partner lies to you, carries on emotional affairs, and pretends you don't even exist to other people.
posted by headnsouth at 1:39 PM on February 6, 2013 [6 favorites]
About six months ago, she said something that was a little too presumptuous in her right to comment on his life right after another big fight we'd had, and he decided harmony in our relationship was more important than continuing to talk to her, so they stopped communicating.
I'm going to buck the grain and say that actually, it does sound like you may be a bit controlling, without more details to go on.
What does "She said something that was too presumptuous in her right to comment on his life" mean? I can't even imagine what it would possibly be that would justify you essentially making it a dealbreaker if he still talked to her. It sounds, from here, that she said he should leave you or something like that and you pitched a fit.
I also am really curious about what this second one said that was "girlfriendy." Right now, I think people are taking your impressions of these statements, but without details, it's really hard to be accurate in said reassurance.
For perspective, I tend to maintain good friendships with my exes, and it doesn't mean that we're sexing if we have "intimate" conversations. For me, when people insist that their partners can't talk to their exes, it's a major Red Flag of super-controlling. If I were girl #1, and you had been having those kinds of fights, I would warn my buddy that you might be kind of controlling and he might want to think about getting out. It wouldn't mean I wanted him for myself.
A question: are you the kind of person who thinks that men don't have emotional female friends, only girlfriends?
posted by corb at 1:44 PM on February 6, 2013
I'm going to buck the grain and say that actually, it does sound like you may be a bit controlling, without more details to go on.
What does "She said something that was too presumptuous in her right to comment on his life" mean? I can't even imagine what it would possibly be that would justify you essentially making it a dealbreaker if he still talked to her. It sounds, from here, that she said he should leave you or something like that and you pitched a fit.
I also am really curious about what this second one said that was "girlfriendy." Right now, I think people are taking your impressions of these statements, but without details, it's really hard to be accurate in said reassurance.
For perspective, I tend to maintain good friendships with my exes, and it doesn't mean that we're sexing if we have "intimate" conversations. For me, when people insist that their partners can't talk to their exes, it's a major Red Flag of super-controlling. If I were girl #1, and you had been having those kinds of fights, I would warn my buddy that you might be kind of controlling and he might want to think about getting out. It wouldn't mean I wanted him for myself.
A question: are you the kind of person who thinks that men don't have emotional female friends, only girlfriends?
posted by corb at 1:44 PM on February 6, 2013
I'm still squicked about the other girlfriends.
The second ex, who knows about you and about whom you know, not really a huge issue, it's that first one that's a doozy.
He's holding a torch for her and he lied about you to her. Rather than bring it all out into the open, introduce you two, etc, he chose to stop contacting her. Why? Is it that he can't have her be a friend, but only a prospective lover?
I know Husbunny's ex. I've never been formally introduced, but I know she's on his Facebook, and once he said, "Hey, a friend of T's is doing comedy in town, want to go?" (We did and had a blast!) Basically, she knows we're married, I know she exists and occasionally our worlds will overlap. But if Husbunny were IMing with her, emailing her and pretending that I didn't exist with her...that would be a problem. A huge, motherfucking problem!
It's your life, I'm just a stranger on the interwebs, but I gotta say, I stand by my assessment. You two are not in the same relationship.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:03 PM on February 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
The second ex, who knows about you and about whom you know, not really a huge issue, it's that first one that's a doozy.
He's holding a torch for her and he lied about you to her. Rather than bring it all out into the open, introduce you two, etc, he chose to stop contacting her. Why? Is it that he can't have her be a friend, but only a prospective lover?
I know Husbunny's ex. I've never been formally introduced, but I know she's on his Facebook, and once he said, "Hey, a friend of T's is doing comedy in town, want to go?" (We did and had a blast!) Basically, she knows we're married, I know she exists and occasionally our worlds will overlap. But if Husbunny were IMing with her, emailing her and pretending that I didn't exist with her...that would be a problem. A huge, motherfucking problem!
It's your life, I'm just a stranger on the interwebs, but I gotta say, I stand by my assessment. You two are not in the same relationship.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:03 PM on February 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'd just like to say that the guy I dated who did similar things was a wonderful and caring person and we got along like wildfire. What I realized was that he could not change, and he tried! He really really tried, but he didn't fully understand what the problem was and we'd have arguments about how this wasn't anything like last time because the sun isn't at a 75 degree angle and he's not wearing plaid. (Well, not that bad, but you get the idea.)
He just didn't. get. it.
And I needed someone who got it. Turns out the majority of people do get it.
posted by Dynex at 2:18 PM on February 6, 2013 [8 favorites]
He just didn't. get. it.
And I needed someone who got it. Turns out the majority of people do get it.
posted by Dynex at 2:18 PM on February 6, 2013 [8 favorites]
So what's your plan if/when this happens again?
I didn't see anything about that in your update, although you could be considering your options there, I don't know.
Hon. He may be lovely in other areas, but so far, he seems to always need an emotional affair going on the side. You need to talk to him about this, because it is a deal breaker. You deserve someone who is 100% committed to you. Especially if you've been together 3 years and live together.
It's not that he's mildly social with his exes, it's that he's overly emotionally involved with them.
Talk to him.
(And always always always trust your gut, especially with stuff like this.)
posted by jbenben at 3:35 PM on February 6, 2013 [6 favorites]
I didn't see anything about that in your update, although you could be considering your options there, I don't know.
Hon. He may be lovely in other areas, but so far, he seems to always need an emotional affair going on the side. You need to talk to him about this, because it is a deal breaker. You deserve someone who is 100% committed to you. Especially if you've been together 3 years and live together.
It's not that he's mildly social with his exes, it's that he's overly emotionally involved with them.
Talk to him.
(And always always always trust your gut, especially with stuff like this.)
posted by jbenben at 3:35 PM on February 6, 2013 [6 favorites]
He may be lovely in other areas, but so far, he seems to always need an emotional affair going on the side.
Yeah, I was thinking this too. Your account reminded me of a guy I dated who frequently mentioned this woman who he'd dated before. One time he had a phone conversation with her in front of me that gave me a bad feeling. (I could hear more of what she was saying than he thought, and he was pretending he was alone.) Shortly before dumping him I said, "Do you always have some sort of triangle situation going on with two women?" and he said, "Pretty much."
posted by BibiRose at 4:25 PM on February 6, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I was thinking this too. Your account reminded me of a guy I dated who frequently mentioned this woman who he'd dated before. One time he had a phone conversation with her in front of me that gave me a bad feeling. (I could hear more of what she was saying than he thought, and he was pretending he was alone.) Shortly before dumping him I said, "Do you always have some sort of triangle situation going on with two women?" and he said, "Pretty much."
posted by BibiRose at 4:25 PM on February 6, 2013 [3 favorites]
I was also with a guy who was like this, although the girls in question were not his exes. I caught him having inappropriate sexual chats with the first one, and he immediately cut off all contact with her. Then straight away he took up with someone else. He didn't chat in a sexual way with the second one, but their contact was way more frequent and way more intimate than I was comfortable with. They would chat for hours each day, and it got to the point where she was his first port of call for any conversation he had. Like, a funny observation from his day, or an interesting idea - he would always tell her first. Time was, I was the person that he would turn to for that sort of thing (and in a long-term committed relationship where you live together, your partner should generally be that person).
To me the question is not even whether or not he is cheating or looking to cheat on you, but that the intimacy with these other people is taking away from the intimacy in your relationship. That, and as others have said, that he's putting you in the position of relationship caretaker where you have to police his activities and do the work of keeping the relationship afloat by yourself.
I recently read over a forum post (not MeFi) that I wrote about this time in my life, and my god - after everyone gave me advice, my follow-up post sounds exactly like yours does. I backed him up, talked about how wonderful he was, and blamed myself for being too insecure and controlling.
Looking back now I know that I wasn't facing the reality of the situation, because I didn't want to believe that my relationship with him wasn't what I thought it was.
(I came to my senses and broke up with him a few months later).
posted by RubyScarlet at 4:48 PM on February 6, 2013 [5 favorites]
To me the question is not even whether or not he is cheating or looking to cheat on you, but that the intimacy with these other people is taking away from the intimacy in your relationship. That, and as others have said, that he's putting you in the position of relationship caretaker where you have to police his activities and do the work of keeping the relationship afloat by yourself.
I recently read over a forum post (not MeFi) that I wrote about this time in my life, and my god - after everyone gave me advice, my follow-up post sounds exactly like yours does. I backed him up, talked about how wonderful he was, and blamed myself for being too insecure and controlling.
Looking back now I know that I wasn't facing the reality of the situation, because I didn't want to believe that my relationship with him wasn't what I thought it was.
(I came to my senses and broke up with him a few months later).
posted by RubyScarlet at 4:48 PM on February 6, 2013 [5 favorites]
Also, whether or not he is physically cheating is not the issue. These chats alone are undermining your security in the relationship, making you feel guilty and insecure, and causing you to second-guess your decisions and behavior.
It's not about whether these conversations represent a future risk of him cheating on you or leaving you. It's about how they make you feel right now, and right now you don't feel good.
posted by RubyScarlet at 4:53 PM on February 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's not about whether these conversations represent a future risk of him cheating on you or leaving you. It's about how they make you feel right now, and right now you don't feel good.
posted by RubyScarlet at 4:53 PM on February 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
What bothers me about your question is that in both cases, this overstepping of (your) boundaries was made apparent to you not by your boyfriend, but by your finding out some other way (in the second case, it sounds mildly like snooping). And his response seems to be more one of "damage control" than "I understand and respect her boundaries." Also, the fact that you say that you are friendly with ex number 2 but haven't talked to her about this recent incident (although "apparently" she feels some kind of way about it), but are willing to overlook it so that he can keep the friendship, makes no sense to me.
It's not for me to say whether your boundaries are compatible with the relationship you are in, but if most of his good friends are exes and he has a history of having more intimate (whether emotional or otherwise) relationships with them than you feel comfortable with, you may be in the wrong relationship.
Your "emotionalabuse" tag is really throwing me off here, though. Whether you are being controlling (in the opinion of this internet stranger) depends a great deal on the nature of these fights/interactions/resolutions between you and your BF.
posted by sm1tten at 5:05 PM on February 6, 2013
It's not for me to say whether your boundaries are compatible with the relationship you are in, but if most of his good friends are exes and he has a history of having more intimate (whether emotional or otherwise) relationships with them than you feel comfortable with, you may be in the wrong relationship.
Your "emotionalabuse" tag is really throwing me off here, though. Whether you are being controlling (in the opinion of this internet stranger) depends a great deal on the nature of these fights/interactions/resolutions between you and your BF.
posted by sm1tten at 5:05 PM on February 6, 2013
He's been super supportive of me getting my shit together in terms of mental health
I can't escape the feeling that this is an element of your uncertainty. having been in a similar position with that, it can lead to second guessing many of your thoughts and feelings about the relationship.
It's almost a form of self induced gaslighting, wondering whether your feelings about certain aspects, events, and actions by the other person are truly valid, whether you're "overreacting", etc.
It just really troubles me whenever i see someone going through that process of questioning the legitimacy of their own feelings about something.
That said, on reading your update i really get the feeling that you're just trying to justify to yourself that you really should be stomping these feelings out, and ignoring that this bothers you. the fact that it bothered you enough to post it on here says something.
Obviously, i can't see some master map of this relationship and examples of your interactions with each other, but it really makes me wonder how much of this is him saying you're "over reacting", and how much of it is you convincing yourself that you are. Dynex's post really comes to mind here, because reading these posts i can't really tell how much of that "sun not at a 75 degree angle" stuff would be coming from him, or just from yourself.
Definitely something to reflect on. I really think your doubts as to the legitimacy of this boundary crossing will be more personally troubling than setting the actual boundaries(which, as many people have said, are completely reasonable and fine) ever was.
posted by emptythought at 3:59 AM on February 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
I can't escape the feeling that this is an element of your uncertainty. having been in a similar position with that, it can lead to second guessing many of your thoughts and feelings about the relationship.
It's almost a form of self induced gaslighting, wondering whether your feelings about certain aspects, events, and actions by the other person are truly valid, whether you're "overreacting", etc.
It just really troubles me whenever i see someone going through that process of questioning the legitimacy of their own feelings about something.
That said, on reading your update i really get the feeling that you're just trying to justify to yourself that you really should be stomping these feelings out, and ignoring that this bothers you. the fact that it bothered you enough to post it on here says something.
Obviously, i can't see some master map of this relationship and examples of your interactions with each other, but it really makes me wonder how much of this is him saying you're "over reacting", and how much of it is you convincing yourself that you are. Dynex's post really comes to mind here, because reading these posts i can't really tell how much of that "sun not at a 75 degree angle" stuff would be coming from him, or just from yourself.
Definitely something to reflect on. I really think your doubts as to the legitimacy of this boundary crossing will be more personally troubling than setting the actual boundaries(which, as many people have said, are completely reasonable and fine) ever was.
posted by emptythought at 3:59 AM on February 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Area Man at 6:50 AM on February 6, 2013 [34 favorites]