Can My Passive Aggressive Partner Change Enough For Me?
December 19, 2012 12:25 PM Subscribe
Can my passive aggressive partner change? Breaking up is hard to do.
I am so worn out by not being loved. He does not show me affection, only perhaps a hug when asked for. There is no physical intimacy. I understand this to part of the syndrome of passive aggressive personality. Witholding.
There is also controlling behavior.
I have stopped letting him inform me what I'm thinking or feeling or what I should be doing, because this feels like he's attempting to control me verbally. There are lots of other ways to communicate, but he tells me that I am trying to shut him up and keep him from expressing himself. He accuses me of controlling him in this way.
He accuses me of being passive aggressive, so I suggest that we both read a book on being passive aggressive and discuss it. He agrees to a night to discuss it. He is drunk when it comes time, but insists that we discuss the book (just a little bit- he hasn't read the whole thing). He resists going and getting his book to talk about it when I ask where it is.
I myself haven't come up with a lesson plan, lol, but I am just leafing through my book, looking for topics. He finally gets the book when I insist we should be approaching the discussion equally, both of us looking for things to discuss. He won't open the book, insists that I begin, all by myself, and he will respond (apparently without cracking his book). When I say I want us both actively participating with the discussion, that it should not be automatically assumed that I should lead the discussion, he accuses me of trying to control him. I walk away.
Sometimes, he compares me suddenly to people we both hate, apropos of nothing and insists that I'm just like them.
He gives me primers on basic human behavior like "Let me give you a primer. People get their feelings hurt when you don't listen when they are speaking." I am insulted being told I don't know something that most children know and tell him so. He insists that he really did believe that I didn't know this. Is say bullsh*t. He starts crying and shaking and hides away for two days.
He has not so far delved into his childhood for clues about present day experiences and behavior. He places the blame for nearly all his behavior and feelings outside of himself, largely on me. Nearly every argument turns into the supposedly bad things I did a year ago, two years ago, three, that he just hasn't been able to get over.
He says he can't get over the past because I have never listened to him the right way and so he must bring it up over and over. I know he is just trying to get control of the argument. He loves to demand apologies. I think he wants to "bring me to heal."
He is basically treating me like his mother, IMHO, who makes some unreasonable demands on his father. He doesn't resist me like an adult, directly, but like a powerless child, saying yes meaning no, etc. He was also a part of a pretty stringent religious sect growing up that made serious demands on him from the time he was a small child.
Everyone thinks my partner is so sweet and polite, that we must have such a sweet and tender relationship ourselves.
I have been deeply committed to this relationship, I love his family, I love the idea of what he could be and the idea of what our relationship could be.
Right now, all I have is the dream. The reality pretty much sucks. Is there hope for someone like this changing? I know that underneath all of this nonsense is someone who feels powerless and is scared to death of being close, but I also know that no one changes without introspection and taking responsibility.
Is there anything I can do to encourage change?
I am so worn out by not being loved. He does not show me affection, only perhaps a hug when asked for. There is no physical intimacy. I understand this to part of the syndrome of passive aggressive personality. Witholding.
There is also controlling behavior.
I have stopped letting him inform me what I'm thinking or feeling or what I should be doing, because this feels like he's attempting to control me verbally. There are lots of other ways to communicate, but he tells me that I am trying to shut him up and keep him from expressing himself. He accuses me of controlling him in this way.
He accuses me of being passive aggressive, so I suggest that we both read a book on being passive aggressive and discuss it. He agrees to a night to discuss it. He is drunk when it comes time, but insists that we discuss the book (just a little bit- he hasn't read the whole thing). He resists going and getting his book to talk about it when I ask where it is.
I myself haven't come up with a lesson plan, lol, but I am just leafing through my book, looking for topics. He finally gets the book when I insist we should be approaching the discussion equally, both of us looking for things to discuss. He won't open the book, insists that I begin, all by myself, and he will respond (apparently without cracking his book). When I say I want us both actively participating with the discussion, that it should not be automatically assumed that I should lead the discussion, he accuses me of trying to control him. I walk away.
Sometimes, he compares me suddenly to people we both hate, apropos of nothing and insists that I'm just like them.
He gives me primers on basic human behavior like "Let me give you a primer. People get their feelings hurt when you don't listen when they are speaking." I am insulted being told I don't know something that most children know and tell him so. He insists that he really did believe that I didn't know this. Is say bullsh*t. He starts crying and shaking and hides away for two days.
He has not so far delved into his childhood for clues about present day experiences and behavior. He places the blame for nearly all his behavior and feelings outside of himself, largely on me. Nearly every argument turns into the supposedly bad things I did a year ago, two years ago, three, that he just hasn't been able to get over.
He says he can't get over the past because I have never listened to him the right way and so he must bring it up over and over. I know he is just trying to get control of the argument. He loves to demand apologies. I think he wants to "bring me to heal."
He is basically treating me like his mother, IMHO, who makes some unreasonable demands on his father. He doesn't resist me like an adult, directly, but like a powerless child, saying yes meaning no, etc. He was also a part of a pretty stringent religious sect growing up that made serious demands on him from the time he was a small child.
Everyone thinks my partner is so sweet and polite, that we must have such a sweet and tender relationship ourselves.
I have been deeply committed to this relationship, I love his family, I love the idea of what he could be and the idea of what our relationship could be.
Right now, all I have is the dream. The reality pretty much sucks. Is there hope for someone like this changing? I know that underneath all of this nonsense is someone who feels powerless and is scared to death of being close, but I also know that no one changes without introspection and taking responsibility.
Is there anything I can do to encourage change?
Of course he can change. People change all the time. But the key is: they have to want to, and then work really hard at it. You can't will someone into being a better person, and it doesn't sound like this guy has any interest in trying to change his behavior at all. It's not going to just happen someday by magic; he's going to have to take initiative and put work into changing these behaviors which are, frankly, pretty repellent. If I were you I'd quit wasting my time waiting around for it to get better.
posted by something something at 12:30 PM on December 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by something something at 12:30 PM on December 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
There is a problem here, and it's not helped by the attempts on either side to get into armchair psychoanalysis. You'd both be happier separately.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 12:30 PM on December 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 12:30 PM on December 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
Is there hope for someone like this changing?
Not without therapy and the sincere desire to change. Even then, it will be gradual and it'll take a long, long time.
Is there anything I can do to encourage change?
Tell him that he treats you with contempt and disrespect and that the two of you need to be a team or the two of you cannot be anything at all. Plan to make an appointment with a couples therapist.
That's all you can do. Truthfully, it sounds like things are so far gone into resentment that there isn't a lot of hope. I don't think he really is in a place where he'll hear you without it passing through his mental filter.
If he won't go into couples therapy and he won't go into therapy for himself, you may want to consider leaving. It sucks and it will be hard but your relationship would only keep getting worse.
Good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:32 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Not without therapy and the sincere desire to change. Even then, it will be gradual and it'll take a long, long time.
Is there anything I can do to encourage change?
Tell him that he treats you with contempt and disrespect and that the two of you need to be a team or the two of you cannot be anything at all. Plan to make an appointment with a couples therapist.
That's all you can do. Truthfully, it sounds like things are so far gone into resentment that there isn't a lot of hope. I don't think he really is in a place where he'll hear you without it passing through his mental filter.
If he won't go into couples therapy and he won't go into therapy for himself, you may want to consider leaving. It sucks and it will be hard but your relationship would only keep getting worse.
Good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:32 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Your relationship sounds awful. Why would you want to be with a drunk, insulting, passive-aggressive who wants to keep having the same arguement?
We love to recommend therapy, and I love to recommend it times three when it's called for. I'm TOTES suggesting that you get on the couch. From what you are saying, you're letting this guy lead you around by the nose because of how great he would be, if only he would live up to the idea of him you have in your head.
There are two lives.
1. The real one, in 3-d, right in front of you.
2. The life you live in your head. That's the one where those pewter, Loubiton heels makes sense, you need shrimp forks and where all relationships are awesome, if only.
I hate to tell you but you've been chasing your tail on this one for X years, and it's not getting better.
Now, I see that you've read a book about relationships, but I don't see that it's getting you anywhere.
Here's your plan for the new year:
1. If you are co-habitating with this yutz, get a new place and move there.
2. Find a good therapist who will teach you how to value yourself so you don't fall for another one of these.
3. DTMFA
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:33 PM on December 19, 2012 [22 favorites]
We love to recommend therapy, and I love to recommend it times three when it's called for. I'm TOTES suggesting that you get on the couch. From what you are saying, you're letting this guy lead you around by the nose because of how great he would be, if only he would live up to the idea of him you have in your head.
There are two lives.
1. The real one, in 3-d, right in front of you.
2. The life you live in your head. That's the one where those pewter, Loubiton heels makes sense, you need shrimp forks and where all relationships are awesome, if only.
I hate to tell you but you've been chasing your tail on this one for X years, and it's not getting better.
Now, I see that you've read a book about relationships, but I don't see that it's getting you anywhere.
Here's your plan for the new year:
1. If you are co-habitating with this yutz, get a new place and move there.
2. Find a good therapist who will teach you how to value yourself so you don't fall for another one of these.
3. DTMFA
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:33 PM on December 19, 2012 [22 favorites]
Sorry, but this guy sounds objectively terrible. Since you asked if it's possible he could change I'd say it's possible, but not at all probable. While you're loving the idea of what he could be, you've having to live with someone very far from that image. Don't settle for a possibility that's unlikely to come true.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:35 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:35 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: LOL, Ruthless bunny. I loved the shrimp forks bit. I am taking myself to the therapist and considering all my options, even those that are very sad in the short to medium term.
posted by KoiPond at 12:37 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by KoiPond at 12:37 PM on December 19, 2012
OK, we only have your side of things, but go back and read your side of things. Imagine a friend is telling you that about their relationship. Would your advice be more like "stay; it's true love!" or "run, very far and very fast?" I am betting on the latter.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:41 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:41 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
He could change, but not for you. Don't wait. Don't settle. Extricate yourself and block all contact.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2012
Response by poster: Maybe this is a silly question to ask right here. I'm 33. I don't how hard it is to find a solid guy at my age, provided I'm a mostly together girl. Hard? Was thinking I want a kid before my ovaries age out? Who is out there? I only ask because MetaFilter is so wise.
posted by KoiPond at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by KoiPond at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2012
I'm 33 young
Who is out there a shit ton of people
Your expectations on the options (for women especially) at your age have been manipulated by the media etc. You have no kids so if there's a time to get out it's now
posted by MangyCarface at 12:47 PM on December 19, 2012 [17 favorites]
Who is out there a shit ton of people
Your expectations on the options (for women especially) at your age have been manipulated by the media etc. You have no kids so if there's a time to get out it's now
posted by MangyCarface at 12:47 PM on December 19, 2012 [17 favorites]
Is there anything I can do to encourage change?
Sure, if you focus the change on you changing your relationship by leaving this one and starting one with a better person.
posted by davejay at 12:47 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Sure, if you focus the change on you changing your relationship by leaving this one and starting one with a better person.
posted by davejay at 12:47 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Quite frankly, regardless of your age, THIS guy is not someone I would consider responsible or father material in the least. You are only doing yourself (and sure, your ovaries) a disservice to stay with a guy who is emotionally manipulative and treats you like garbage. You're right, you aren't getting any younger and it doesn't sound like this guy is getting any better.
It's only hard to find a guy if you're stuck on trying to change another. You've done it before and you can do it again.
posted by Flamingo at 12:47 PM on December 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
It's only hard to find a guy if you're stuck on trying to change another. You've done it before and you can do it again.
posted by Flamingo at 12:47 PM on December 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Here's the thing: being alone is not worse than being in a bad relationship; it's better. Seriously. It can be challenging if you're not used to it, but it is so much better.
Once you're out of this for a while, you'll be amazed that you put up with it so long.
You don't need to worry about new guy/kids right now; that's just another way of living in a dream/maybe-world, and it's not helping you.
There is a very good chance that you will find someone else, but that is not the only thing that will make you happy. You can't put all your happiness on that. Or on kids. Or you will end up making bargains to stay with a terrible dude like this one because you can't conceive of anything better, and that would be a damn shame and a total waste.
If you want permission from a bunch of internet strangers to leave a shitty relationship for a chance at a better life, you have it! The rest is up to you.
posted by emjaybee at 12:50 PM on December 19, 2012 [15 favorites]
Once you're out of this for a while, you'll be amazed that you put up with it so long.
You don't need to worry about new guy/kids right now; that's just another way of living in a dream/maybe-world, and it's not helping you.
There is a very good chance that you will find someone else, but that is not the only thing that will make you happy. You can't put all your happiness on that. Or on kids. Or you will end up making bargains to stay with a terrible dude like this one because you can't conceive of anything better, and that would be a damn shame and a total waste.
If you want permission from a bunch of internet strangers to leave a shitty relationship for a chance at a better life, you have it! The rest is up to you.
posted by emjaybee at 12:50 PM on December 19, 2012 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: One good thing about my parter is that is is absolutely phenomenal with kids and very sweet with animals. Not that he would make a good husband and partner, but just to give a fuller picture.
posted by KoiPond at 12:52 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by KoiPond at 12:52 PM on December 19, 2012
Maybe this is a silly question to ask right here. I'm 33. I don't how hard it is to find a solid guy at my age, provided I'm a mostly together girl.
Nope, not silly. Husbunny and I met when I was 38. We married when I was 39. We've been married for over 10 years now.
It's WORTH it to wait for the absolute right guy. There are days when you wonder if you're growing cobwebs in your cooch, but trust and believe, when you're with the right person, it's absolute magic.
Imagine a life where your partner, instead of draining your energy, refreshes you. Where you have someone who is 100% in your corner. Who loves you distractedly, who cleans the cat box, who reads to you while you drive during long car trips.
You'll never settle, if you only know how good it can be.
I promise.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:53 PM on December 19, 2012 [14 favorites]
Nope, not silly. Husbunny and I met when I was 38. We married when I was 39. We've been married for over 10 years now.
It's WORTH it to wait for the absolute right guy. There are days when you wonder if you're growing cobwebs in your cooch, but trust and believe, when you're with the right person, it's absolute magic.
Imagine a life where your partner, instead of draining your energy, refreshes you. Where you have someone who is 100% in your corner. Who loves you distractedly, who cleans the cat box, who reads to you while you drive during long car trips.
You'll never settle, if you only know how good it can be.
I promise.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:53 PM on December 19, 2012 [14 favorites]
I don't how hard it is to find a solid guy at my age
You don't have a solid guy NOW. You have a miserable excuse for a verbally abusive manchild, and you're not even getting laid.
And guess what? Every minute you spend with this man is a minute you will absolutely NOT be meeting a solid guy, because you're taken. By the least solid guy ever.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:53 PM on December 19, 2012 [31 favorites]
You don't have a solid guy NOW. You have a miserable excuse for a verbally abusive manchild, and you're not even getting laid.
And guess what? Every minute you spend with this man is a minute you will absolutely NOT be meeting a solid guy, because you're taken. By the least solid guy ever.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:53 PM on December 19, 2012 [31 favorites]
One good thing about my parter is that is is absolutely phenomenal with kids and very sweet with animals. Not that he would make a good husband and partner, but just to give a fuller picture.
Who cares? That has NOTHING to do with anything. Life in your head. Life in your head.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:54 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Who cares? That has NOTHING to do with anything. Life in your head. Life in your head.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:54 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I do have the sense that being alone is better than being in a bad relationship. I am actually very good at entertaining myself.
posted by KoiPond at 12:54 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by KoiPond at 12:54 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
One good thing about my parter is that is is absolutely phenomenal with kids and very sweet with animals.
You think so? Well, according to you, everyone thinks my partner is so sweet and polite, that we must have such a sweet and tender relationship ourselves. For all you know, when he is alone with children and animals, he treats them with just as little respect and consideration as he treats you.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
You think so? Well, according to you, everyone thinks my partner is so sweet and polite, that we must have such a sweet and tender relationship ourselves. For all you know, when he is alone with children and animals, he treats them with just as little respect and consideration as he treats you.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh, Ruthless Bunny. Thank you. What a nice picture.
posted by KoiPond at 12:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by KoiPond at 12:55 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: "You don't have a solid guy NOW. You have a miserable excuse for a verbally abusive manchild, and you're not even getting laid."
And, thank YOU, Showbiz Liz!
posted by KoiPond at 12:57 PM on December 19, 2012
And, thank YOU, Showbiz Liz!
posted by KoiPond at 12:57 PM on December 19, 2012
I met a really amazing guy after 33. Currently working on Baby Stardust at 35. If you really want to have kids, extricate yourself now from this lead weight and start looking for someone who will be a full participant in a relationship with you.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:07 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:07 PM on December 19, 2012
Mod note: Heya, KoiPond, we need you to not use this too much like a chat space. Followups to clarify/add info is fine as necessary, but try to keep it to that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on December 19, 2012
"One good thing about my parter is that is is absolutely phenomenal with kids and very sweet with animals."
ZOMG DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HIM OR HE WILL PASSIVELY AGGRESS AGAINST YOU FOREVER EVEN IF YOU DO LEAVE.
He may even start to become actively aggressive.
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on December 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
ZOMG DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HIM OR HE WILL PASSIVELY AGGRESS AGAINST YOU FOREVER EVEN IF YOU DO LEAVE.
He may even start to become actively aggressive.
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on December 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
One good thing about my parter is that is is absolutely phenomenal with kids and very sweet with animals.
To expand on what showbiz_liz just added, it is very likely that he only treats people poorly when he is very close to them. Less close people get the pleasant face, but intimates such as girlfriends, wives, children etc. will get the same awful treatment you get. Would you tell your sister or best friend or imaginary future daughter to stay in this relationship? Treat yourself kindly, there is so much more out there.
posted by fermezporte at 1:14 PM on December 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
To expand on what showbiz_liz just added, it is very likely that he only treats people poorly when he is very close to them. Less close people get the pleasant face, but intimates such as girlfriends, wives, children etc. will get the same awful treatment you get. Would you tell your sister or best friend or imaginary future daughter to stay in this relationship? Treat yourself kindly, there is so much more out there.
posted by fermezporte at 1:14 PM on December 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
very sweet with animals.
Whatevs, I bet Stalin was really nice to his cat. Get the hell away from this schmuck and LOVE THYSELF, brosephine.
posted by elizardbits at 1:30 PM on December 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
Whatevs, I bet Stalin was really nice to his cat. Get the hell away from this schmuck and LOVE THYSELF, brosephine.
posted by elizardbits at 1:30 PM on December 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
@Koipond: Glad to hear you're still here, and OK. I've been so worried about you since this post about feeling manipulated by your partner. I am glad you're still seeking help and outside opinions. And I hope you can find the strength to leave. You deserve so much more. You deserve to feel like you're on a team with your partner, and not fighting against your partner.
Also? He's an alcoholic. That never gets better. Please trust me.
I was in a very similar, very bad relationship with a manipulative alcoholic that ended when I was 33. (I tried to get him to read books too — he did exactly the same thing! Agree to read it. Skim two pages. Talk to me drunk about it). That is not a real effort. He is doing the bare minimum he can to keep you around.
I was heartbroken when I realized the dream was just a dream, and that the love and future I imagined was just a mirage I had leaned on too hard to get through tough days. After the breakup, it took a tough year to rebuild myself, but then I met an amazing man who is totally loving, healthy, and ready to have kids together. Don't stay with Mr. Manipulator because you want to be a mom. You can absolutely find a loving partner who will want to be the father of your children past age 33.
But remember — the sooner you get out of this, the more time you have to find the right guy and be a mom. Don't wait. Please.
posted by amoeba at 1:37 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Also? He's an alcoholic. That never gets better. Please trust me.
I was in a very similar, very bad relationship with a manipulative alcoholic that ended when I was 33. (I tried to get him to read books too — he did exactly the same thing! Agree to read it. Skim two pages. Talk to me drunk about it). That is not a real effort. He is doing the bare minimum he can to keep you around.
I was heartbroken when I realized the dream was just a dream, and that the love and future I imagined was just a mirage I had leaned on too hard to get through tough days. After the breakup, it took a tough year to rebuild myself, but then I met an amazing man who is totally loving, healthy, and ready to have kids together. Don't stay with Mr. Manipulator because you want to be a mom. You can absolutely find a loving partner who will want to be the father of your children past age 33.
But remember — the sooner you get out of this, the more time you have to find the right guy and be a mom. Don't wait. Please.
posted by amoeba at 1:37 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
One good thing about my parter is that is is absolutely phenomenal with kids and very sweet with animals. Not that he would make a good husband and partner, but just to give a fuller picture.
But you're not a child nor a gerbil, so I'm not sure why this detail is relevant to his relationship with you.
I'm sorry you're going through this; but the way he's treating you is really disrespectful. And so far you've been letting him get away with it; you remind yourself that he's good with kids or sweet in public or whatever, but none of that matters as much as how he treats you personally.
Make his actions towards you have real consequences, and leave.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:42 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
But you're not a child nor a gerbil, so I'm not sure why this detail is relevant to his relationship with you.
I'm sorry you're going through this; but the way he's treating you is really disrespectful. And so far you've been letting him get away with it; you remind yourself that he's good with kids or sweet in public or whatever, but none of that matters as much as how he treats you personally.
Make his actions towards you have real consequences, and leave.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:42 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Dude's a dick. Bail.
posted by nacho fries at 1:43 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by nacho fries at 1:43 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
KoiPond. Do you remember saying this?
"Ok, reading The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and there we are, the both of us, abused and abuser. Good book. Very illuminating. -posted by KoiPond at 12:03 AM on October 12"
I know you want to fix this, and it's even commendable that you wanted to try, but you really, really can't. It isn't possible. Your relationship is not fixable because your boyfriend is abusive. And you know this. Or you did in October.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:44 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Ok, reading The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and there we are, the both of us, abused and abuser. Good book. Very illuminating. -posted by KoiPond at 12:03 AM on October 12"
I know you want to fix this, and it's even commendable that you wanted to try, but you really, really can't. It isn't possible. Your relationship is not fixable because your boyfriend is abusive. And you know this. Or you did in October.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:44 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I love the idea of what he could be and the idea of what our relationship could be.
And I love the idea of being married to Brad Pitt, but it ain't gonna happen.
If you're worried about finding new love at 33 why not leave now and get started on finding someone now so that you're not having this exact same conversation with yourself when you're 34 or 40 or 45.
And certainly don't even consider having children with someone who is not suited to you just because, well, they're there.
posted by heyjude at 1:56 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
And I love the idea of being married to Brad Pitt, but it ain't gonna happen.
If you're worried about finding new love at 33 why not leave now and get started on finding someone now so that you're not having this exact same conversation with yourself when you're 34 or 40 or 45.
And certainly don't even consider having children with someone who is not suited to you just because, well, they're there.
posted by heyjude at 1:56 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I did know this in October. It has become more and more clear over the past year in fact. Hope is strong. I met my parter after a really horrible time in my life. Like more than a decade of awful. Everyday was a kick in the head. Seemingly inescapable.
Before we got extremely close, he was sweet with me and extremely comforting and reassuring. I felt he had come to save me and everything would be ok. And everything got much more ok for me, genuinely, but then I started having independent growth of my own and that is when he checked out and pushed me away.
I guess it's really hard to let go of what seemingly was and what might have been. I'm pretty sad. There's grieving I have to do. It's been a process of discovery and a process of moving away and finding myself. Thanks for bearing with me. I don't know why there are so many awesome folks on MetaFilter, but there are.
posted by KoiPond at 1:57 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Before we got extremely close, he was sweet with me and extremely comforting and reassuring. I felt he had come to save me and everything would be ok. And everything got much more ok for me, genuinely, but then I started having independent growth of my own and that is when he checked out and pushed me away.
I guess it's really hard to let go of what seemingly was and what might have been. I'm pretty sad. There's grieving I have to do. It's been a process of discovery and a process of moving away and finding myself. Thanks for bearing with me. I don't know why there are so many awesome folks on MetaFilter, but there are.
posted by KoiPond at 1:57 PM on December 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
I don't know why there are so many awesome folks on MetaFilter, but there are.
There are so many awesome folks on Metafilter because there are so many awesome folks in the world in general. Really, there are lots.
Which is making it all the more heartbreaking for us to watch you stay with this guy. I understand you wanting to let go and grieve for what you wish he was; in fact, that's perfectly natural.
But please, do that grieving after breaking up with him first. Don't let that grief keep you there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:59 PM on December 19, 2012 [12 favorites]
There are so many awesome folks on Metafilter because there are so many awesome folks in the world in general. Really, there are lots.
Which is making it all the more heartbreaking for us to watch you stay with this guy. I understand you wanting to let go and grieve for what you wish he was; in fact, that's perfectly natural.
But please, do that grieving after breaking up with him first. Don't let that grief keep you there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:59 PM on December 19, 2012 [12 favorites]
Why would you stay with a guy who treats you like this?
posted by OmieWise at 2:05 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 2:05 PM on December 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't have time for a full response at the moment but it bears repeating:
Do not DOOOOOO NOTTTTT have kids. Don't. Don't don't don't. This can not possibly be repeated enough.
Can he change? Maybe. Maybe not. If he does, it will take years and years and tears and therapy and quitting therapy and going back to therapy, and more years of tears, and little breaks of okay-ness in the middle to give you hope. And maybe someday in 10 years the relationship will be tolerable and he'll be sweet and mature. Or not. You can't really know.
This is realistic. Dead realistic, hon. BEST CASE scenario, he improves, and it takes years, because people don't change fucked-up mentalities overnight, even when they want to. Are you okay with staying exactly the way you are today for 5 more years waiting to find out if he gets better? With a high chance that he won't, after all?
Your options, at 33, are not bad. At all. Get out before they get worse.
posted by celtalitha at 2:18 PM on December 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
Do not DOOOOOO NOTTTTT have kids. Don't. Don't don't don't. This can not possibly be repeated enough.
Can he change? Maybe. Maybe not. If he does, it will take years and years and tears and therapy and quitting therapy and going back to therapy, and more years of tears, and little breaks of okay-ness in the middle to give you hope. And maybe someday in 10 years the relationship will be tolerable and he'll be sweet and mature. Or not. You can't really know.
This is realistic. Dead realistic, hon. BEST CASE scenario, he improves, and it takes years, because people don't change fucked-up mentalities overnight, even when they want to. Are you okay with staying exactly the way you are today for 5 more years waiting to find out if he gets better? With a high chance that he won't, after all?
Your options, at 33, are not bad. At all. Get out before they get worse.
posted by celtalitha at 2:18 PM on December 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
It can be better but not if he isn't willing to do the work. Some people are amazing as friends but when you get close to them they just push away. Maybe there's something in his childhood that causing that, you don't know and you can't know if he isn't willing to explore and work on his issues.
Also, how do you feel about him right now? You talk about how he was in the past and how you felt the relationship was in the past. But what about now? It sounds like you don't really think highly of him.
As for encouraging change, I would tell him that if he isn't willing to work on this together, as a couple, then you'll have to leave him. And then stick to it. And if he tries for a little while but goes back to how he is now, leave. (And if you're worried about finding someone to have children with, it's probably best to leave now than stay when you're uncertain if he'll actually change or not.)
posted by Autumn at 2:22 PM on December 19, 2012
Also, how do you feel about him right now? You talk about how he was in the past and how you felt the relationship was in the past. But what about now? It sounds like you don't really think highly of him.
As for encouraging change, I would tell him that if he isn't willing to work on this together, as a couple, then you'll have to leave him. And then stick to it. And if he tries for a little while but goes back to how he is now, leave. (And if you're worried about finding someone to have children with, it's probably best to leave now than stay when you're uncertain if he'll actually change or not.)
posted by Autumn at 2:22 PM on December 19, 2012
"It's really hard to let go of what seemingly was and what might have been."
If there's one thing I've learned through seven years of semi-abusive, screwed up relationships, it is there is no such thing as "what might have been." Doesn't exist. If it were differently, it would involve different people, and with the people you guys are it's not. So quit thinking like that. Look at it big picture: yes, you have had good moments, they are few and far between, and they are going to STAY few and far between because that's who he is right now. We like to delude ourselves into thinking that the "sweet" moments are the "real" him, and that if only XYZ then he would be like that all the time. This is flat out logically false. He's not a sweet guy who is acting shitty because of (blah blah blah). He's a fucked up shitty guy who sometimes acts sweet because he's human. But you don't need to stick around for all of it.
posted by celtalitha at 2:23 PM on December 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
If there's one thing I've learned through seven years of semi-abusive, screwed up relationships, it is there is no such thing as "what might have been." Doesn't exist. If it were differently, it would involve different people, and with the people you guys are it's not. So quit thinking like that. Look at it big picture: yes, you have had good moments, they are few and far between, and they are going to STAY few and far between because that's who he is right now. We like to delude ourselves into thinking that the "sweet" moments are the "real" him, and that if only XYZ then he would be like that all the time. This is flat out logically false. He's not a sweet guy who is acting shitty because of (blah blah blah). He's a fucked up shitty guy who sometimes acts sweet because he's human. But you don't need to stick around for all of it.
posted by celtalitha at 2:23 PM on December 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
Oh my goodness, I identified so much with your post. I dated a passive-aggressive man on and off for four years. He was my first boyfriend. I wanted to marry him and have lots of babies. He exhibited a lot of the same behaviors your boyfriend does. He was just generally nasty, would call me a "martyr" and demand apologies from me all the time, etc. It was exhausting and terrifying.
The good news: we are now both 1,000x happier.. in different relationships. He got married last summer and I just celebrated one year with my current boyfriend. I would imagine (hope!) that he has changed and he does not treat his wife this way. I tried every trick in the book to get him to change. I did a ton of reading, tried suggestions on the web, tricked myself into thinking it would better. It didn't.
The tough part is that I tried for so hard and for so long that I really did a number on my self-esteem and the way that I feel about relationships. Even today, in a happy, healthy relationship more than five years since I started dating my ex, I find that there are still things that I do or don't do in a relationship based on my ex's triggers. It's frustrating that it took me so long to extricate myself from that relationship that it still has an impact on me.
Please do yourself a favor and break up with this guy now. It will be extraordinarily painful and sad. You will question yourself a thousand times. But you will also be so much happier in the long run and open yourself up to meet someone who does not act like your boyfriend. Much love.
posted by anotheraccount at 2:48 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
The good news: we are now both 1,000x happier.. in different relationships. He got married last summer and I just celebrated one year with my current boyfriend. I would imagine (hope!) that he has changed and he does not treat his wife this way. I tried every trick in the book to get him to change. I did a ton of reading, tried suggestions on the web, tricked myself into thinking it would better. It didn't.
The tough part is that I tried for so hard and for so long that I really did a number on my self-esteem and the way that I feel about relationships. Even today, in a happy, healthy relationship more than five years since I started dating my ex, I find that there are still things that I do or don't do in a relationship based on my ex's triggers. It's frustrating that it took me so long to extricate myself from that relationship that it still has an impact on me.
Please do yourself a favor and break up with this guy now. It will be extraordinarily painful and sad. You will question yourself a thousand times. But you will also be so much happier in the long run and open yourself up to meet someone who does not act like your boyfriend. Much love.
posted by anotheraccount at 2:48 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
If you have children with this man, you will have created a life from your own body and stuck that life into the middle of a very bad and emotionally destroying relationship. Babies make everything harder, not easier. He's not going to skip home from the hospital a new man, he'll get tired and cranky and his bad behaviour will intensify.
I imagine if you want and love children that you are envisioning having a creature in your arms you love more then your own life, I can't understand why you are then thinking you want to put that life under the guardianship of this man who treats you so horribly. Even if he manages to treat his child with love and care, watching your father treat your mother like he treats you would be a one way ticket to years of therapy.
You deserve better! Your future child sure as hell deserves better too!
posted by Dynex at 3:07 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I imagine if you want and love children that you are envisioning having a creature in your arms you love more then your own life, I can't understand why you are then thinking you want to put that life under the guardianship of this man who treats you so horribly. Even if he manages to treat his child with love and care, watching your father treat your mother like he treats you would be a one way ticket to years of therapy.
You deserve better! Your future child sure as hell deserves better too!
posted by Dynex at 3:07 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I once read a perplexed blog post by a neuroscientist about why, just why???? do people abuse their partners?
Yes, all that stuff in Why Does He Do That? [a recommended book, spoiler: abusers abuse because they're mean], but why though? What do they get out of being mean? [spoiler: their own way, feeling of being powerful by having someone in a one-down position, etc.]
Yes but why????
It's a variation on the theme of "they're mean".
We all like sex, right? But we don't go around in public trying to hump everyone we feel like. That would be socially unacceptable. We keep an intimate partner at home to have sex with.
Mean people like being mean, right? But they don't go around in public trying to be mean to everyone they feel like. That would be socially unacceptable. They keep an intimate partner at home to be mean to.
You are in his life for him to be mean to. He is mean. He won't stop being mean to you as long as you're with him, because you are there for him to be mean to.
Sorry, it sucks. The only cure is to leave, and then you will not be in the presence of someone who is mean to you. Bonus points if you later find another partner who is not mean. Would you believe... kind?
posted by tel3path at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2012 [21 favorites]
Yes, all that stuff in Why Does He Do That? [a recommended book, spoiler: abusers abuse because they're mean], but why though? What do they get out of being mean? [spoiler: their own way, feeling of being powerful by having someone in a one-down position, etc.]
Yes but why????
It's a variation on the theme of "they're mean".
We all like sex, right? But we don't go around in public trying to hump everyone we feel like. That would be socially unacceptable. We keep an intimate partner at home to have sex with.
Mean people like being mean, right? But they don't go around in public trying to be mean to everyone they feel like. That would be socially unacceptable. They keep an intimate partner at home to be mean to.
You are in his life for him to be mean to. He is mean. He won't stop being mean to you as long as you're with him, because you are there for him to be mean to.
Sorry, it sucks. The only cure is to leave, and then you will not be in the presence of someone who is mean to you. Bonus points if you later find another partner who is not mean. Would you believe... kind?
posted by tel3path at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2012 [21 favorites]
Mod note: OP, please don't threadsit, this is a place to ask questions and get answers not to have an ongoing discussion about your topic. Thanks. Please let us know if you have questions.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:13 PM on December 19, 2012
I broke up with my last boyfriend in June. He was passive aggressive, encouraged me to drink when I told him I was trying not to because it made me nuts. He pushed me away when I tried to initiate sex... exploited me financially, and a million other things that I can't remember now but made me pretty nutty.
Things my best friend told me:
-Your days of domestic bliss are.over.
-start making plans
-he is just a blip
- the difference between you is that you don't like yourself when you drink, he doesn't like himself when he ISN'T drinking
-you'll be fine
- Everyone dates someone like this at some point
-you're going to get over this break-up really crazy fast
-you can do better.
SHE WAS SO RIGHT. That was in June. My new boyfriend is a super sweet, handsome man, with a rocking body- who flies me around in his airplane and goes out of his way to get me a chai latte if he ever passes a coffee shop. We eat loads of vegetables and work out together.
I laugh when I think back to how afraid I was to break up...
posted by misspony at 3:23 PM on December 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
Things my best friend told me:
-Your days of domestic bliss are.over.
-start making plans
-he is just a blip
- the difference between you is that you don't like yourself when you drink, he doesn't like himself when he ISN'T drinking
-you'll be fine
- Everyone dates someone like this at some point
-you're going to get over this break-up really crazy fast
-you can do better.
SHE WAS SO RIGHT. That was in June. My new boyfriend is a super sweet, handsome man, with a rocking body- who flies me around in his airplane and goes out of his way to get me a chai latte if he ever passes a coffee shop. We eat loads of vegetables and work out together.
I laugh when I think back to how afraid I was to break up...
posted by misspony at 3:23 PM on December 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
He places the blame for nearly all his behavior and feelings outside of himself, largely on me. Nearly every argument turns into the supposedly bad things I did a year ago, two years ago, three, that he just hasn't been able to get over.
He says he can't get over the past because I have never listened to him the right way and so he must bring it up over and over. I know he is just trying to get control of the argument. He loves to demand apologies. I think he wants to "bring me to heal."
This right here should be your signal to get the hell out.
I can assure you with this behavior, your boyfriend will not be a good father. This relationship is very dysfunctional. He's being very weird and your'e begging him to acknowledge you. Bringing up the past, never letting go, placing blame on you. That's scary stuff right there and it will probably only get worse. Does he drink a lot? Abuse alcohol? Even scarier. Does he accept any personal responsibility? It doesn't sound like it.
People get into relationships with the wrong guy all of the time. It sounds like your self-esteem was lacking when you got together with this guy. I think it would be very wise to get away from this person and work on yourself before you get into another relationship. 33 is so young and even if it wasn't, who wants to live like this?
posted by Fairchild at 3:32 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
He says he can't get over the past because I have never listened to him the right way and so he must bring it up over and over. I know he is just trying to get control of the argument. He loves to demand apologies. I think he wants to "bring me to heal."
This right here should be your signal to get the hell out.
I can assure you with this behavior, your boyfriend will not be a good father. This relationship is very dysfunctional. He's being very weird and your'e begging him to acknowledge you. Bringing up the past, never letting go, placing blame on you. That's scary stuff right there and it will probably only get worse. Does he drink a lot? Abuse alcohol? Even scarier. Does he accept any personal responsibility? It doesn't sound like it.
People get into relationships with the wrong guy all of the time. It sounds like your self-esteem was lacking when you got together with this guy. I think it would be very wise to get away from this person and work on yourself before you get into another relationship. 33 is so young and even if it wasn't, who wants to live like this?
posted by Fairchild at 3:32 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
What you're describing is classic manipulative behavior. I think you deserve better, and getting out of this relationship will enable you to find a better partner. This guy is never going to get your point of view, no matter what. You can't win these interactions. You need to leave.
posted by tuesdayschild at 3:58 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by tuesdayschild at 3:58 PM on December 19, 2012
It can be even harder to end a bad relationship than a so-so one. You've tried so hard for so long, always looking for hope. It's very difficult to let go of that hope. You might go through a tough period of mourning, as well as just having to get used to a huge change in your life. If you put the same effort into pursuing things that are important to you as you put into the relationship, you'll soon start to like being yourself again with nobody blaming you or expecting apologies. I really wish you well.
posted by wryly at 4:29 PM on December 19, 2012
posted by wryly at 4:29 PM on December 19, 2012
Can my passive aggressive partner change?
I doubt it
Breaking up is hard to do.
Yes, no that's not a reason not to. You describe a manipulative dickhead.
posted by mattoxic at 4:33 PM on December 19, 2012
I doubt it
Breaking up is hard to do.
Yes, no that's not a reason not to. You describe a manipulative dickhead.
posted by mattoxic at 4:33 PM on December 19, 2012
Sounds like you have a darth Vader boyfriend.
posted by foxjacket at 5:25 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by foxjacket at 5:25 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
One time I was at a friend's house with my significant other. My friend said we were having (insert name of pasta here) and I said "That really looks more like (insert name of actual pasta here)." Significant other immediately chimed in and said NO, that's definitely (insert name of Pasta my friend had said here).
The argument was fettuccine vs. linguine, and that part really wasn't important. The important part was that it was part of a pattern. I learned that the friend knew nothing about pasta, and that not only did significant other know nothing about pasta, but was willing to back up a (then to him) stranger instead of his boyfriend. I was upset, and significant other couldn't understand!
I said all that to say this: I'm still not over it. I was right, friend was wrong, and significant other without any sufficient knowledge of the subject didn't back me.
And I said all that to say this: I have no idea what your guy is trying to say. But he's trying to say something. And I don't want to jump the gun and say DTMFA. But be careful of yourself, treat him with as much respect as you can in the end, and maybe admit that IT WAS F*ING LINGUINE AND NOT FETTUCCINE!!!!! (that last part may be my issue...)
posted by one4themoment at 5:27 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
The argument was fettuccine vs. linguine, and that part really wasn't important. The important part was that it was part of a pattern. I learned that the friend knew nothing about pasta, and that not only did significant other know nothing about pasta, but was willing to back up a (then to him) stranger instead of his boyfriend. I was upset, and significant other couldn't understand!
I said all that to say this: I'm still not over it. I was right, friend was wrong, and significant other without any sufficient knowledge of the subject didn't back me.
And I said all that to say this: I have no idea what your guy is trying to say. But he's trying to say something. And I don't want to jump the gun and say DTMFA. But be careful of yourself, treat him with as much respect as you can in the end, and maybe admit that IT WAS F*ING LINGUINE AND NOT FETTUCCINE!!!!! (that last part may be my issue...)
posted by one4themoment at 5:27 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I am so worn out by not being loved.
It might be too late to salvage anything. It may not be possible at all.
Stop trying to fix him. You have successfully communicated the problems and your needs. Instead of using the information in a loving or reasonable way, he is just able to manipulate you more successfully.
Behave the way you want to be. Do not tolerate crappy behavior from him. Don't argue or negotiate. Label bad behavior, and demand the treatment you want and deserve.
You're just like (some horrid person).
"That's unkind, hurtful and untrue." Then remove yourself from him. Go to another room, hang up the phone, whatever it takes.
You're passive-aggressive.
"I'd be willing to discuss this with you and a therapist. "
teasing me in barbed ways in front of other people
"We've talked about this, and you know I find this sort of teasing mean. Stop it." If it continues, leave.
I say this because my passive-aggressive ex- behaved a lot better with his next wife because she just plain didn't tolerate his crap, didn't argue, just didn't accept it. I was sincere, loving and far too tolerant, because I believed that he loved me and would be willing to change in easy ways, to make the relationship better for both of us. I was wrong. He is the best Dad he can be, but was a manipulative jerk as a co-parent. I believe you will be a lot better off and a lot happier if you move on.
posted by theora55 at 7:03 PM on December 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
It might be too late to salvage anything. It may not be possible at all.
Stop trying to fix him. You have successfully communicated the problems and your needs. Instead of using the information in a loving or reasonable way, he is just able to manipulate you more successfully.
Behave the way you want to be. Do not tolerate crappy behavior from him. Don't argue or negotiate. Label bad behavior, and demand the treatment you want and deserve.
You're just like (some horrid person).
"That's unkind, hurtful and untrue." Then remove yourself from him. Go to another room, hang up the phone, whatever it takes.
You're passive-aggressive.
"I'd be willing to discuss this with you and a therapist. "
teasing me in barbed ways in front of other people
"We've talked about this, and you know I find this sort of teasing mean. Stop it." If it continues, leave.
I say this because my passive-aggressive ex- behaved a lot better with his next wife because she just plain didn't tolerate his crap, didn't argue, just didn't accept it. I was sincere, loving and far too tolerant, because I believed that he loved me and would be willing to change in easy ways, to make the relationship better for both of us. I was wrong. He is the best Dad he can be, but was a manipulative jerk as a co-parent. I believe you will be a lot better off and a lot happier if you move on.
posted by theora55 at 7:03 PM on December 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Honestly, you can't do better than your boyfriend.
Right now, anyway.
After you dump the loser, take care of yourself for a few months, get a smile back on your lips and a spring in your step, you will then have the ability to attract the man you want.
But at the moment, your boyfriend has you so broken down that the man you really want would walk right by you. The sooner you move on from the dead weight dragging you down, the sooner you move on to what you really dream of.
And as long as your dreams are reasonable, yeah, you can achieve them, even at the ripe old age of 33.
posted by Monday at 7:25 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Right now, anyway.
After you dump the loser, take care of yourself for a few months, get a smile back on your lips and a spring in your step, you will then have the ability to attract the man you want.
But at the moment, your boyfriend has you so broken down that the man you really want would walk right by you. The sooner you move on from the dead weight dragging you down, the sooner you move on to what you really dream of.
And as long as your dreams are reasonable, yeah, you can achieve them, even at the ripe old age of 33.
posted by Monday at 7:25 PM on December 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
This sounds exactly, EXACTLY like my ex-husband. Do any of the following sound remotely familiar?
--"I'm only putting my arm around you to save space on the bus."
--"You're embarrassing me by not having your wallet out within two seconds of arriving at the cash register."
--"I actually preferred having a separate living room to seeing you every time I leave my cave to get a snack, because I'd prefer not to see you."
--"I play video games all night in my cave, which happens to be our bedroom, so you can't come in here."
--"I don't think I want to have kids. I feel like I've done enough parenting of you."
--"You having big breasts turns me on and I can't control it. That makes me angry. You need to be less sexy. THEN maybe we can do things in a more normal way." Combined with "I know we haven't had sex in five years. It's your fault for being so neurotic. I can get hard any time I want to."
--(in response to "I'm really unhappy.") "Well, I'm not, so I don't see what the problem is."
--(in response to "We might actually get divorced.") "No, we can't. Because I love you."
--(in couples therapy) "Yeah, you have a ton of problems. You should really get some help. (She has a lot of problems, eh?)"
--"After we split up, don't have sex with anyone until the divorce is finalized. I don't want the first person to have sex with you during our marriage to be someone other than me."
If you see any of your partner's behavior in these statements, congratulations! You've seen that this is a completely abnormal, disrespectful, gallingly awful way to live.
If you're horrified at what that might say about you? Don't be. You've created a "new normal" for yourself that tries to make sense out of an abnormal situation. It's natural. You're just trying to protect yourself and maintain stability. It's just that you've concentrated so hard that the things that brought you together have slipped away while the things you never had in common quietly take their place. It happens to so many of us, and we only want things to run more smoothly.
There is ALWAYS time and space to try something better.
I am here to tell you, again and again and again, that you have NO IDEA what amazing things lie in store for you once you leave this relationship. Once you find someone who loves and appreciates you for who you are and doesn't hold you up to some imaginary standard (seriously, what point is there in ridiculing you for not doing what they want? It's their standards; they should know better than to pick on someone who never exemplified them in the first place), you will find out how truly amazing life can be.
The gratitude that my new husband and I share for being together and not being stuck in awful, disrespectful past marriages? It knows no bounds. We are better people to ourselves and each other because of it. And my husband was 33 when we met :)
posted by Madamina at 8:51 PM on December 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
--"I'm only putting my arm around you to save space on the bus."
--"You're embarrassing me by not having your wallet out within two seconds of arriving at the cash register."
--"I actually preferred having a separate living room to seeing you every time I leave my cave to get a snack, because I'd prefer not to see you."
--"I play video games all night in my cave, which happens to be our bedroom, so you can't come in here."
--"I don't think I want to have kids. I feel like I've done enough parenting of you."
--"You having big breasts turns me on and I can't control it. That makes me angry. You need to be less sexy. THEN maybe we can do things in a more normal way." Combined with "I know we haven't had sex in five years. It's your fault for being so neurotic. I can get hard any time I want to."
--(in response to "I'm really unhappy.") "Well, I'm not, so I don't see what the problem is."
--(in response to "We might actually get divorced.") "No, we can't. Because I love you."
--(in couples therapy) "Yeah, you have a ton of problems. You should really get some help. (She has a lot of problems, eh?)"
--"After we split up, don't have sex with anyone until the divorce is finalized. I don't want the first person to have sex with you during our marriage to be someone other than me."
If you see any of your partner's behavior in these statements, congratulations! You've seen that this is a completely abnormal, disrespectful, gallingly awful way to live.
If you're horrified at what that might say about you? Don't be. You've created a "new normal" for yourself that tries to make sense out of an abnormal situation. It's natural. You're just trying to protect yourself and maintain stability. It's just that you've concentrated so hard that the things that brought you together have slipped away while the things you never had in common quietly take their place. It happens to so many of us, and we only want things to run more smoothly.
There is ALWAYS time and space to try something better.
I am here to tell you, again and again and again, that you have NO IDEA what amazing things lie in store for you once you leave this relationship. Once you find someone who loves and appreciates you for who you are and doesn't hold you up to some imaginary standard (seriously, what point is there in ridiculing you for not doing what they want? It's their standards; they should know better than to pick on someone who never exemplified them in the first place), you will find out how truly amazing life can be.
The gratitude that my new husband and I share for being together and not being stuck in awful, disrespectful past marriages? It knows no bounds. We are better people to ourselves and each other because of it. And my husband was 33 when we met :)
posted by Madamina at 8:51 PM on December 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Maybe this is a silly question to ask right here. I'm 33. I don't how hard it is to find a solid guy at my age, provided I'm a mostly together girl. Hard? Was thinking I want a kid before my ovaries age out? Who is out there? I only ask because MetaFilter is so wise.
I met a good friend of mine about 2 1/2 years ago. She was 34 and single (professional, cute, well traveled etc.). About six months after I met her, I was crashing at her place for the night and hanging out with her cats while she went on a date with some guy she met off Match.com. Today she's been married to said guy for 1+ year and the baby is one month old. Anything can happen. Anything.
(And anything that happens with the current guy is NOT going to be healthy or happy, is not something you should subject a child to!)
posted by jrobin276 at 1:09 AM on December 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
I met a good friend of mine about 2 1/2 years ago. She was 34 and single (professional, cute, well traveled etc.). About six months after I met her, I was crashing at her place for the night and hanging out with her cats while she went on a date with some guy she met off Match.com. Today she's been married to said guy for 1+ year and the baby is one month old. Anything can happen. Anything.
(And anything that happens with the current guy is NOT going to be healthy or happy, is not something you should subject a child to!)
posted by jrobin276 at 1:09 AM on December 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
The answer is "nope."
I just got out of a lousy relationship with a passive-aggressive, depressive jerk in September, and I will happily echo the refrain of "You'll be much happier when all this is over." WAY happier.
My ex's behavior? Sounds awfully similar to what you describe. Shall I count the ways....
Second-guessing me. Making me feel as if my memory was somehow inadequate when I didn't recall things with pitch-perfect accuracy—although I know darn well that it isn't. Publicly undermining me and my talents. Small, cutting comments designed to get right at my insecurities. Making everything about him and his feelings—and dismissing all my problems and fears as piddling and minor in relation to his Real Important Problems.
Walking on eggshells, afraid that my most innocent comment or observation would send him into a downward spiral of suck, or at least a tantrum better suited to a toddler than a Grown-Ass Man. Being just a tiny bit afraid of him, because although he'd never laid a hand on me, he savagely destroyed inanimate objects on a regular basis—and sometimes I wondered how much we were actually "playing" when we wrestled, something we both (used) to like to do.
You get the picture. It sucked!
And now I'm free of the wanker. I am right now: gallivanting around Asia, living my career dreams, and generally being a happy-go-lucky 24-year-old dork with much time to date far more awesome men. Who will actually, shockingly enough, be nice to me for prolonged periods. This is REALLY not too much to ask.
You also have oodles of time. And I can confirm that there are many, many dudes in this world who will be kind to you. Dudes who will go out of their way to make you happy, instead of merely tolerating your presence.
Life is too damn short to be spent with a man who, if he is all you have described, is the spitting image of an oozing douchebag. This much I know.
So much awaits.
posted by cheberet at 12:51 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just got out of a lousy relationship with a passive-aggressive, depressive jerk in September, and I will happily echo the refrain of "You'll be much happier when all this is over." WAY happier.
My ex's behavior? Sounds awfully similar to what you describe. Shall I count the ways....
Second-guessing me. Making me feel as if my memory was somehow inadequate when I didn't recall things with pitch-perfect accuracy—although I know darn well that it isn't. Publicly undermining me and my talents. Small, cutting comments designed to get right at my insecurities. Making everything about him and his feelings—and dismissing all my problems and fears as piddling and minor in relation to his Real Important Problems.
Walking on eggshells, afraid that my most innocent comment or observation would send him into a downward spiral of suck, or at least a tantrum better suited to a toddler than a Grown-Ass Man. Being just a tiny bit afraid of him, because although he'd never laid a hand on me, he savagely destroyed inanimate objects on a regular basis—and sometimes I wondered how much we were actually "playing" when we wrestled, something we both (used) to like to do.
You get the picture. It sucked!
And now I'm free of the wanker. I am right now: gallivanting around Asia, living my career dreams, and generally being a happy-go-lucky 24-year-old dork with much time to date far more awesome men. Who will actually, shockingly enough, be nice to me for prolonged periods. This is REALLY not too much to ask.
You also have oodles of time. And I can confirm that there are many, many dudes in this world who will be kind to you. Dudes who will go out of their way to make you happy, instead of merely tolerating your presence.
Life is too damn short to be spent with a man who, if he is all you have described, is the spitting image of an oozing douchebag. This much I know.
So much awaits.
posted by cheberet at 12:51 PM on December 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Reading Cheberet's post, I now realize that my ex-husband was not only passive aggressive and emotionally abusive, he was also apparently a bigamist.
My ex-husband would say things to me like "You know (wistful sigh), my ex-girlfriend has the most beautiful breasts I've ever seen. Before or since." And this comment was made not in response to my question, "Hey, ex-husband, what do you think of your ex's breasts, because I really want to know!" It was made totally out of the blue, like when we were eating Spaghettios or something.
When I'd say, very directly but also fairly calmly, "Gee, you know, it hurts my feelings and makes me feel sort of insecure when you say that," he would look very offended and say, "Well! I was just trying to speak frankly and truthfully about all things."
After I left him, he wrote to my mother to tell her how mentally unbalanced I am. He told her, "Months before staggering knew you were coming to visit, she would begin manipulating me into being cruel to her, so that I'd make her cry. Then you (my mother) would see staggering crying and encourage her to leave me. This is the extent to which your daughter victimized me!"
Recently, I got a bill from my daughter's school cafeteria for money she'd spent while staying at her dad's. I asked him to pay the bill, since the charges happened when she was with him. He wrote me a very nasty response about how this was another example of me trying to "enrich myself."
I wrote back saying, "If you are going to be this much of a jerk about this, then I am going to need you to pay the lunch bill and your half of the dentist's bill. I had planned on paying the whole dentists bill myself, since I know you are struggling with money right now, but if you are going to be this nasty then forget it, I'm no longer going to do you any favors at all."
The hilarious thing is, he insists that I am the one who is passive agressive (me manipulating him into being cruel to me is used as evidence). Sure, if I were in a healthy relationship and did someone a favor (like paying a bill) and then silently held that favor against them, it would be passive aggressive. But in this case, I think I was aggressive aggressive. "I was going to pay that bill for you but since you are being such a dick, forget it."
Anyway, I am saying all this both to vent, and also to let you know that you will be making a terrible mistake if you get further enmeshed with is fellow. Children, home ownership, all the complexities of daily life will make these traits worse, not better, and could lead you to have to interact wi him for the rest of your life. Sure, I guess you could devote your entire life and all of your energy into fixing HIS problems, but, my god, why? Why is HE so special that he deserves all that focus, when the rest of us just have to suck it up and learn how not to be assholes?
Finally, I am married to someone now who is night and day different from my ex. We married when I was 41, and I have to stop writing this now because my 14-month-old just woke up.
There is always hope, you. Don't settle.
posted by staggering termagant at 11:39 AM on February 9, 2013
My ex-husband would say things to me like "You know (wistful sigh), my ex-girlfriend has the most beautiful breasts I've ever seen. Before or since." And this comment was made not in response to my question, "Hey, ex-husband, what do you think of your ex's breasts, because I really want to know!" It was made totally out of the blue, like when we were eating Spaghettios or something.
When I'd say, very directly but also fairly calmly, "Gee, you know, it hurts my feelings and makes me feel sort of insecure when you say that," he would look very offended and say, "Well! I was just trying to speak frankly and truthfully about all things."
After I left him, he wrote to my mother to tell her how mentally unbalanced I am. He told her, "Months before staggering knew you were coming to visit, she would begin manipulating me into being cruel to her, so that I'd make her cry. Then you (my mother) would see staggering crying and encourage her to leave me. This is the extent to which your daughter victimized me!"
Recently, I got a bill from my daughter's school cafeteria for money she'd spent while staying at her dad's. I asked him to pay the bill, since the charges happened when she was with him. He wrote me a very nasty response about how this was another example of me trying to "enrich myself."
I wrote back saying, "If you are going to be this much of a jerk about this, then I am going to need you to pay the lunch bill and your half of the dentist's bill. I had planned on paying the whole dentists bill myself, since I know you are struggling with money right now, but if you are going to be this nasty then forget it, I'm no longer going to do you any favors at all."
The hilarious thing is, he insists that I am the one who is passive agressive (me manipulating him into being cruel to me is used as evidence). Sure, if I were in a healthy relationship and did someone a favor (like paying a bill) and then silently held that favor against them, it would be passive aggressive. But in this case, I think I was aggressive aggressive. "I was going to pay that bill for you but since you are being such a dick, forget it."
Anyway, I am saying all this both to vent, and also to let you know that you will be making a terrible mistake if you get further enmeshed with is fellow. Children, home ownership, all the complexities of daily life will make these traits worse, not better, and could lead you to have to interact wi him for the rest of your life. Sure, I guess you could devote your entire life and all of your energy into fixing HIS problems, but, my god, why? Why is HE so special that he deserves all that focus, when the rest of us just have to suck it up and learn how not to be assholes?
Finally, I am married to someone now who is night and day different from my ex. We married when I was 41, and I have to stop writing this now because my 14-month-old just woke up.
There is always hope, you. Don't settle.
posted by staggering termagant at 11:39 AM on February 9, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
Generally speaking, stop thinking about what he could be, and what your relationship could be, in the future. Focus on the now. Right now your relationship is terrible. Full stop.
Do you have kids together? Do you live together? Have you been together for many years? All of those details might color your answer, but based on the description you've given, I wouldn't want to stay in it. Your opinion may be different.
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:29 PM on December 19, 2012 [3 favorites]