Flag burning = ok?

August 25, 2005 11:10 AM

Help make a Canadian Understand America-filter. Is burning actually one of the preferred ways of disposing of old American flag?

A story on CNN (http://us.cnn.com/2005/US/08/25/flag.burned.ap/index.html) about the owner of the US flag that flew at the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001 burning the flag because authenticity could not be obtained got me thinking. If this has been an acceptable way of disposing of an old flag in the past (and in the present if the Boy Scout manual is current) where did the whole "flag-burning = bad?" issue come from?

Is burning the flag in protest considered "different" to burning the flag to remove it from circulation? Why?

posted by elkerette to Law & Government (10 answers total)

The U.S. Flag Code (4 US Code 1), section 8(k) says: "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

Sounds definitive to me.
posted by Plutor at 11:20 AM on August 25, 2005

Best answer: Yes, flags that are to be disposed of are burned, although it's done in a respectful ceremony. This page details the rules regarding the flag, and there are quite a few.

The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning
posted by borkencode at 11:21 AM on August 25, 2005

It's kinda the difference in dignified cremation and torching a murder victim.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:24 AM on August 25, 2005

The difference between flag-burning-as-desecration and flag-burning-as-funeral is definitely just that of intent. The description of the flag burning in that CNN article is very coordinated and dignified. It is, in fact, quite similar to a funeral.

The best I can do by way of metaphor is the difference between smashing a champagne bottle on the side of a boat to christen it and hucking bottles at it to damage it.
posted by Plutor at 11:25 AM on August 25, 2005

I went to a flag burning ceremony when I was younger, there's a lot to it, it's like a mini-funeral for the flag.
posted by drezdn at 11:51 AM on August 25, 2005

It's not just Americans that cremate their flags (scroll all the way to the bottom).

Also, there are about two hundred violations of that code that I see every day. Does no one respect flag etiquette anymore???
posted by loquax at 1:48 PM on August 25, 2005

Does no one respect flag etiquette anymore???

Yes. No one does. The two hundred per day that you see now is down a lot from when all those momentary patriots had plastic flags clipped onto their cars. (Until the flags blew off to lie forlornly in the gutter, testament to the righteousness of the American Way.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:32 PM on August 25, 2005

True. There is no respect for flag etiquette any more.

For those who do not wish to read extensively, the subtle difference is that when the flag is disposed of properly, one cuts the field of stars from the stripes. At that point, it becomes no longer a flag, and may be burned respectfully.

If you have a flag that has outlived its usefulness, you may give it to many organizations that will take care of it properly, the VFW being one of the more notable. Most of these organizations have a ceremony once or twice a year.
posted by unrepentanthippie at 7:10 PM on August 25, 2005

Caveat: I am very old, and this is the old way of doing it properly. I have seen other ways in various reference materials, and I have seen pictures of ceremonies in which the flag was burned whole. I cringed when I saw them. It shows respect for all the flag stands for, and those who gave their lives for that flag, to do the job right.
posted by unrepentanthippie at 7:17 PM on August 25, 2005

The American Legion, of all people, gets to define our flag etiquette; and they haven't updated the code in, what, half a century? It's ridiculously out of touch. It would be much easier for people to follow a code of respect if it were simplified greatly and rewritten with a "good faith" understanding that most people mean no harm by their violations -- for instance, we hang a flag off our front porch 24/7. I don't consider it a real disrespect, and it's quite common. With modern synthetic fabrics that last, does it still make sense to forbid that? Technically many things, like the little plastic flags people fly from their car doors, or magnetic decals, or many things sewn into clothing, are violations of the code. As it is nobody really knows what the rules are except the D.A.R.

I think in light of the flag-burning amendment debate -- one of the more ridiculous things we seem to be worrying about lately -- a distinction also needs to be made between flag burning as protest and flag burning as provocation.

An Arab demonstrating against America burns a flag to show that he wants to destroy America (or at least see it destroyed). Usually the lefty protesters in America who burn it are making a statement that the America they believed in has already been destroyed.

It might be more symbolically correct in those cases to burn a copy of the Constitution, but of course there is also an element of provocation in such things. The more that righty wingnuts get incensed about it, the mroe lefty wackjobs enjoy getting them incensed. Like my niece and nephew who have spent the summer vacation sitting around the kitchen table finding ways to annoy each other.
posted by dhartung at 10:59 PM on September 2, 2005