Oral contract definition
August 18, 2005 4:15 PM Subscribe
What is the definition of an oral contract?
Scenario is thus: I ordered a local phone service for one month from a company. This was provided, and the service was terminated as agreed. Now the company claims I owe a disconnect fee which has accrued interest over the past 4 years. When I asked for a document to back up their collection claim, I was sent a blank "telephone service order" which states that the disconnect fee is collectable; however, I never signed a copy of this order nor can the company produce anything saying I agreed to this. Would my request for service which was made verbally constitute an oral contract? I'm in Washington state if it makes a difference and my powers of Google are woeful. Washington state has a statute of limitations of 3 years for oral contracts and 6 for written ones, hence the question.
Scenario is thus: I ordered a local phone service for one month from a company. This was provided, and the service was terminated as agreed. Now the company claims I owe a disconnect fee which has accrued interest over the past 4 years. When I asked for a document to back up their collection claim, I was sent a blank "telephone service order" which states that the disconnect fee is collectable; however, I never signed a copy of this order nor can the company produce anything saying I agreed to this. Would my request for service which was made verbally constitute an oral contract? I'm in Washington state if it makes a difference and my powers of Google are woeful. Washington state has a statute of limitations of 3 years for oral contracts and 6 for written ones, hence the question.
Just because it's not signed doesn't mean it's not a written contract. This is something that's going to be determined by your state's laws or more likely caselaw if the exact distinction isn't clear from the text.
You need to be clear if you're being contacted by the original telco or a collection agency on behalf of the telco or a junk debt buyer. Differentiating can be hard but it's important. Collectors sometimes have to be licensed and have additional obligations about how they contact you and what documentation they have to provide. Original creditors are more or less free to harass the shit out of you.
Go over to Art of Credit and look at the info on how to deal with collectors. There will also be info on determining what kind of contract something is, what documentation they'll have to produce and why the 9th circuit (which WA is in) sucks. Don't dawdle - 9th cir requires you to do certain things within 30 days of collection agency contact to preserve your rights. (Which is why is sucks)
posted by phearlez at 5:25 PM on August 18, 2005
You need to be clear if you're being contacted by the original telco or a collection agency on behalf of the telco or a junk debt buyer. Differentiating can be hard but it's important. Collectors sometimes have to be licensed and have additional obligations about how they contact you and what documentation they have to provide. Original creditors are more or less free to harass the shit out of you.
Go over to Art of Credit and look at the info on how to deal with collectors. There will also be info on determining what kind of contract something is, what documentation they'll have to produce and why the 9th circuit (which WA is in) sucks. Don't dawdle - 9th cir requires you to do certain things within 30 days of collection agency contact to preserve your rights. (Which is why is sucks)
posted by phearlez at 5:25 PM on August 18, 2005
Whoopsie - premature submission. All the good info on Art of Credit is in the forums.
posted by phearlez at 5:26 PM on August 18, 2005
posted by phearlez at 5:26 PM on August 18, 2005
If they don't have your signature on something, I think they're hosed. However, if push came to shove, they might be able to dredge up your signature on a check you used to pay the bill or something like that. It'd be a stretch, but it's probably not a slam dunk either way.
As it is, I suspect the telephone company sold your "bad debt" to a collection agency, which is now trying to get the money from you. The agency probably doesn't have anything to prove the debt besides the blank order they sent you. This is good for you.
If I was you, I'd send the agency (or whomever you've been dealing with) a registered/return-receipt letter that says, in effect:
Good luck. (BTW, IAAL, but IANYL. I'm not a Washington lawyer, either. This is just what I'd do if I was you.)
posted by spacewrench at 5:33 PM on August 18, 2005
As it is, I suspect the telephone company sold your "bad debt" to a collection agency, which is now trying to get the money from you. The agency probably doesn't have anything to prove the debt besides the blank order they sent you. This is good for you.
If I was you, I'd send the agency (or whomever you've been dealing with) a registered/return-receipt letter that says, in effect:
You have placed information in my credit report that I believe to be false. The information is [blah blah blah]. When I inquired about the source of this alleged debt, you sent me a blank service order (of which I have attached a copy). This does not seem to evidence an enforceable contract.Keep a copy of the letter (of course) and the reply post card. You can call to follow up in a week or so. If/when you speak to them by phone, always write down whom you spoke to, the date, and notes of your conversation. Send them a follow-up letter that says "thank you for calling, we discussed XYZ, you agreed to do Q."
I hereby request that you provide some evidence of the alleged debt or remove it from my credit report immediately. If you fail to do so, I will be forced to pursue alternate remedies under state or Federal law.
Please do not contact me by telephone regarding this matter. Instead, please send any evidence or other information to my attention at the following U.S. Mail address:
[etc]
Good luck. (BTW, IAAL, but IANYL. I'm not a Washington lawyer, either. This is just what I'd do if I was you.)
posted by spacewrench at 5:33 PM on August 18, 2005
When I read your question, one point two salacious smart-ass answers flitted across my mind, but I'm going to respond to my better angels and treat your question like an adult.
A contract is simply an agreement between two people to do something. An oral contract is one in which the agreement was arrived at verbally.
In order for it to be a "contract," the agreement must involve responsibilites by both parties (often called an "offer," and an "acceptance."). For example, if you said "I'll help you move to your new house next weekend," there is no contract, because the offer was one sided. But if you said: "I'll help you move to your new house next weekend for five dollars," and I said "Okay, great!" we have a contract: we have made a set of reciprocal obligations to one another.
Oral contracts are usually not legal for exchanges of real property (i.e. houses and real estate). And a contract is never binding if it involves agreeing to perform an unlawful action. But otherwise, any agreement between two or more parties that meed the criteria described above is legally binding on both parties.
posted by curtm at 5:37 PM on August 18, 2005
A contract is simply an agreement between two people to do something. An oral contract is one in which the agreement was arrived at verbally.
In order for it to be a "contract," the agreement must involve responsibilites by both parties (often called an "offer," and an "acceptance."). For example, if you said "I'll help you move to your new house next weekend," there is no contract, because the offer was one sided. But if you said: "I'll help you move to your new house next weekend for five dollars," and I said "Okay, great!" we have a contract: we have made a set of reciprocal obligations to one another.
Oral contracts are usually not legal for exchanges of real property (i.e. houses and real estate). And a contract is never binding if it involves agreeing to perform an unlawful action. But otherwise, any agreement between two or more parties that meed the criteria described above is legally binding on both parties.
posted by curtm at 5:37 PM on August 18, 2005
I am neitehr American, nor a lawyer, so I don't know squat that's relevant. I would imagine though, in Australia, that the power is with you and they're dreaming.
The real weapon they may have is an attack on your credit rating with the relevant registered agencies. I don't know how you can ensure this doesn't happen, other posters will I'm sure point you in the right direction.
The total amount they're claiming mustn't be very much, surely?
posted by wilful at 6:14 PM on August 18, 2005
The real weapon they may have is an attack on your credit rating with the relevant registered agencies. I don't know how you can ensure this doesn't happen, other posters will I'm sure point you in the right direction.
The total amount they're claiming mustn't be very much, surely?
posted by wilful at 6:14 PM on August 18, 2005
If I were you I'd do a little background on the company; check them out with the Better Business Bureau and see if there have been any complaints about misleading practices.
posted by stefanie at 6:38 PM on August 18, 2005
posted by stefanie at 6:38 PM on August 18, 2005
I'd be jumping on the 'provide actual evidence of my agreement' bandwagon. Logic (to me) requires that the offer and agreement be recorded, particularly when it's a business transaction. When I've worked in office jobs and I discuss something on the phone I always send a letter confirming the contents of the conversation. On occasion I've produced a copy of the letter to prove that something was agreed (I would often use the letter instead of making a handwritten note). Though IANAL (nor American) I've had Judges confirm something as fact by virtue of such notation (letter) in addition to my testimony. Logic also tells me that they can't rely upon their having a blanket 'company policy' of obtaining an agreement in the initial conversation. That's not proof. And a 'telephone service order' sounds like a computer generated document - that seems really dodgy as evidence of a contractual agreement too. But I otherwise like what spacewrench said.
posted by peacay at 7:46 AM on August 19, 2005
posted by peacay at 7:46 AM on August 19, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 4:40 PM on August 18, 2005