Small liberal arts in Portland: What say you?
August 14, 2012 9:41 AM Subscribe
Reed College, Lewis And Clark: Do you go there? Did you go there? Do you know people who went there? Did you live near and/or deal with students from there?
My daughter got to interview at these two colleges recently as a prospective student. These schools are significantly different than her other choices, all University of California schools. While Portland is a fine place, I know near nothing about these schools other than the nuts and bolts, like tuition, size, etc. and the long, sunless rainy season. What to expect from these places? Reputations? Quirks? Perceptions from outsiders? Good and bad, please. In need of different perspectives.
My daughter got to interview at these two colleges recently as a prospective student. These schools are significantly different than her other choices, all University of California schools. While Portland is a fine place, I know near nothing about these schools other than the nuts and bolts, like tuition, size, etc. and the long, sunless rainy season. What to expect from these places? Reputations? Quirks? Perceptions from outsiders? Good and bad, please. In need of different perspectives.
I live in Portland. When I was applying for colleges about 10 years, Reed had a reputation as a very hippy-ish and intense school. The joke going around my high school was that if you didn't ever want to take showers, Reed was the place for you. I also know that a year or two ago, several students at Reed were arrested on marajuana related charges, which sparked protests among the student body, though I didn't follow the news closely and I don't know how that situation resolved. Beyond that, both have good reputations as far as academia goes. I don't know as much about Lewis and Clark. I think both would good choices for a liberal arts education, maybe less so for business related stuff. I believe Reed has a very good engineering program with a small nuclear reactor on campus.
Portland is a great town to live in, and if she's not planning on working during the school year, she'd have a blast going to school here. Jobs, however, are kind of scarce on the ground, so if she wants a part time job she'd probably have a hard time finding anything that wasn't a barrista, server, or cashier type position.
posted by Caduceus at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2012
Portland is a great town to live in, and if she's not planning on working during the school year, she'd have a blast going to school here. Jobs, however, are kind of scarce on the ground, so if she wants a part time job she'd probably have a hard time finding anything that wasn't a barrista, server, or cashier type position.
posted by Caduceus at 9:56 AM on August 14, 2012
I'm a Clarkie ('96) who worked at Reed for 7 years (2004 - 2011). Having spent a ton of time at both schools, with folks from both schools, and living in Portland for 20 years now, I'd choose Reed. Hands down.
On preview: Reed doesn't have an engineering program. They do have a reactor, but it's not part of any course of study. Reed has a surprisingly narrow range of choices in terms of majors-- folks who go there are often passionate about the classics, and all students have to take Hum 110 their first semester, which is deeply classics-based. The math curriculum is also considered very unconventional, but quite challenging. Reed offers a more structured course of study than LC, with the last year spent writing a senior thesis.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my time at LC and it's a good school, but Reed is steeped in a kind of tradition and even lore that I wish I'd had as a college student. Reedies often feel very connected to one another because of this and, for better or worse, it's an insular place.
posted by hollisimo at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
On preview: Reed doesn't have an engineering program. They do have a reactor, but it's not part of any course of study. Reed has a surprisingly narrow range of choices in terms of majors-- folks who go there are often passionate about the classics, and all students have to take Hum 110 their first semester, which is deeply classics-based. The math curriculum is also considered very unconventional, but quite challenging. Reed offers a more structured course of study than LC, with the last year spent writing a senior thesis.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my time at LC and it's a good school, but Reed is steeped in a kind of tradition and even lore that I wish I'd had as a college student. Reedies often feel very connected to one another because of this and, for better or worse, it's an insular place.
posted by hollisimo at 10:02 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I lived in PDX for most of my life, and my wife went to Lewis and Clark for her masters...I've known many people from both schools however. I won't mention the actual academics, as I didn't go to either school, but I am very aware of each schools reputation.
Reed is kind of an insane place. Most of the students I know who went there would take 8 years or so to complete a degree, because they would go for a year, burn out, take a year or term off. Then start the whole process over again. It also has a fairly extensive, nearly institutionalized drug problem. At times, having an article about an OD on the Reed campus was a monthly staple in the Oregonian. This ebbs and flows, but is always kind of there.
And no offense to Pickypicky, but the vas majority of the Reed Alumni I've known have had incredibly huge egos, and lord their (well earned, mind you) education over the rest of the populace (at least while they're at Reed). I just met a friend of a friend who rubbed me quite the wrong way, and I told my wife later "If we were in Portland, This kid would have gone to Reed" Turns out dude graduated from there a few years back. It's hard to describe, but most Reedies seem to fit a very specific type.
The campus is goddamn beautiful too.
Lewis and Clark doesn't really have a reputation that way...it's just another college campus. Their job placement program is garbage though, so look out for that come graduation day.
Their campus is also super gorgeous, albiet a bit more inconvenient to get to from most of the city. It's a smidge hard to get there by bus from anywhere but downtown, or SW Portland.
I'll echo what Caduceus said: Portland is the best. It's my favorite city of all time, but the job market there has a glut of service industry jobs, and a nice stratta of jobs that you could live off of, but nothing in the middle. It's a really, REALLY polarized city in that regard. We actually had to move because finding mid-level work and starting a career in that city is the most insane, difficult, maddening thing to do, even for a lifelong resident.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Reed is kind of an insane place. Most of the students I know who went there would take 8 years or so to complete a degree, because they would go for a year, burn out, take a year or term off. Then start the whole process over again. It also has a fairly extensive, nearly institutionalized drug problem. At times, having an article about an OD on the Reed campus was a monthly staple in the Oregonian. This ebbs and flows, but is always kind of there.
And no offense to Pickypicky, but the vas majority of the Reed Alumni I've known have had incredibly huge egos, and lord their (well earned, mind you) education over the rest of the populace (at least while they're at Reed). I just met a friend of a friend who rubbed me quite the wrong way, and I told my wife later "If we were in Portland, This kid would have gone to Reed" Turns out dude graduated from there a few years back. It's hard to describe, but most Reedies seem to fit a very specific type.
The campus is goddamn beautiful too.
Lewis and Clark doesn't really have a reputation that way...it's just another college campus. Their job placement program is garbage though, so look out for that come graduation day.
Their campus is also super gorgeous, albiet a bit more inconvenient to get to from most of the city. It's a smidge hard to get there by bus from anywhere but downtown, or SW Portland.
I'll echo what Caduceus said: Portland is the best. It's my favorite city of all time, but the job market there has a glut of service industry jobs, and a nice stratta of jobs that you could live off of, but nothing in the middle. It's a really, REALLY polarized city in that regard. We actually had to move because finding mid-level work and starting a career in that city is the most insane, difficult, maddening thing to do, even for a lifelong resident.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Everyone I know who graduated from Reed went on to get at least one graduate degree. Everyone I know who graduated from Lewis and Clark didn't.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:03 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can speak to philosophy departments.
Reed has a stellar reputation among philosophy grad schools. Their program is academically intense and very rewarding for a student who wants that. In philosophy anyway, they are doing grad-level work by their senior year.
Reed's reputation of study hard, party hard (or, do various substances) was true of people there in the '90s, for sure, and I don't know how much it continues today -- your daughter will need some alone time with current students to ask them candidly and observe for herself.
Lewis and Clark has less of a national profile among grad schools but I know some of the philosophy faculty there and they're great.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2012
Reed has a stellar reputation among philosophy grad schools. Their program is academically intense and very rewarding for a student who wants that. In philosophy anyway, they are doing grad-level work by their senior year.
Reed's reputation of study hard, party hard (or, do various substances) was true of people there in the '90s, for sure, and I don't know how much it continues today -- your daughter will need some alone time with current students to ask them candidly and observe for herself.
Lewis and Clark has less of a national profile among grad schools but I know some of the philosophy faculty there and they're great.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:11 AM on August 14, 2012
I graduated from Lewis & Clark ('97). I had a great time there and think I got a good education. (and I have a phd now, so.) My sense is that Lewis & Clark is a very well-regarded regional liberal arts school.
Reed has a much better reputation.
Portland is awesome.
posted by leahwrenn at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2012
Reed has a much better reputation.
Portland is awesome.
posted by leahwrenn at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2012
And I will say the people I've known from Reed - who all graduated a while ago - did not have big egos.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2012
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2012
Furnace.heart- I've definitely met some of those people, the egotistical and rude. Generally, I've found them to be the second tier members of their programs, who feel that they have to prove their superiority to others but don't have the actual flour to thicken the soup, so to speak.
I'm still friends with different kinds of people, whose love of their studies has grown more profound and humble as they have developed professionally.
I wish you the best in improving the cross section of Reedies that you meet!
posted by pickypicky at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2012
I'm still friends with different kinds of people, whose love of their studies has grown more profound and humble as they have developed professionally.
I wish you the best in improving the cross section of Reedies that you meet!
posted by pickypicky at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2012
I went to Reed, class of '94. I keep up with the school. I still love Reed and enthusiastically recommend it for the right kind of student. This post is long because the place means so much to me. If you want even more info, feel free to MeMail me.
Reed's an excellent college and has only gotten better in the past ten years. The education (and cost) is comparable to any of the top tier liberal arts schools. So is its reputation in academic circles; it's an excellent springboard for graduate school. It's not a great school for resume padding, a lot of folks in the business world haven't heard of Reed compared to, say, Harvard. But when people have heard of it it's pretty much always positive.
Above all Reed is intensely intellectual, students go there to study and to learn. No one sees anything strange about staying up late discussing some fine point of a Greek poet's approach to love of knowledge, or stressing over a bio lab bench completing an experiment, or debating whether Tarantino films are sexist, feminist, or both. Reed embodies the idea of "life of the mind" in a completely unapologetic and unironic way. I think it's wonderful, exactly what a liberal arts college should be like. Sometime's it's a bit egotistical and over-earnest, no doubt, but it's also terrific.
Definitely a liberal arts school; you go to learn academic stuff, not applied job skills. I was a weird fit in that I knew I wanted to program computers. Reed still has no computer science program. But I'm really glad I didn't get a CS engineering degree. I did math instead which was an excellent education, but I most cherish the courses I took in Music, Linguistics, Philosophy, other topics I never would have been exposed to. I'm a big believer in the value of a liberal arts education.
Reed also has a reputation for being a hippy / druggy / alternative school. There's definitely some truth to it. But it's also overblown, out of perspective. Some students there smoke some pot, fairly openly. And there have been a few tragic cases of students with drug problems. But it's not like everyone's wandering around high all the time. Students are there to learn, to study, and that takes up most of their time. It's not a party school in the usual sense. The just-leaving president Colin Diver had a lot to do with reigning in some of the excesses. I'm particularly impressed with how the graduation rate has greatly improved in the years he was president.
I also want to highlight the fact that Reed is a teaching college, without a real graduate program. That's a great thing; it means professors come to Reed to teach undergraduates, that is all they do, they are not distracted by chasing research grants and trying to publish major papers. Your daughter will be taught by professors, not grad student TAs. On the flip side the professors do have side research projects working with undergrads, and in some departments like Biology are well regarded.
I don't know as much about Lewis & Clark; we never interacted, opposite side of town. It's a good school but I think is considered a lower tier than Reed. You mentioned UC schools: another obvious difference is school size. Reed's like 1400 people, you kind of know everyone. I liked that a lot.
posted by Nelson at 10:25 AM on August 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Reed's an excellent college and has only gotten better in the past ten years. The education (and cost) is comparable to any of the top tier liberal arts schools. So is its reputation in academic circles; it's an excellent springboard for graduate school. It's not a great school for resume padding, a lot of folks in the business world haven't heard of Reed compared to, say, Harvard. But when people have heard of it it's pretty much always positive.
Above all Reed is intensely intellectual, students go there to study and to learn. No one sees anything strange about staying up late discussing some fine point of a Greek poet's approach to love of knowledge, or stressing over a bio lab bench completing an experiment, or debating whether Tarantino films are sexist, feminist, or both. Reed embodies the idea of "life of the mind" in a completely unapologetic and unironic way. I think it's wonderful, exactly what a liberal arts college should be like. Sometime's it's a bit egotistical and over-earnest, no doubt, but it's also terrific.
Definitely a liberal arts school; you go to learn academic stuff, not applied job skills. I was a weird fit in that I knew I wanted to program computers. Reed still has no computer science program. But I'm really glad I didn't get a CS engineering degree. I did math instead which was an excellent education, but I most cherish the courses I took in Music, Linguistics, Philosophy, other topics I never would have been exposed to. I'm a big believer in the value of a liberal arts education.
Reed also has a reputation for being a hippy / druggy / alternative school. There's definitely some truth to it. But it's also overblown, out of perspective. Some students there smoke some pot, fairly openly. And there have been a few tragic cases of students with drug problems. But it's not like everyone's wandering around high all the time. Students are there to learn, to study, and that takes up most of their time. It's not a party school in the usual sense. The just-leaving president Colin Diver had a lot to do with reigning in some of the excesses. I'm particularly impressed with how the graduation rate has greatly improved in the years he was president.
I also want to highlight the fact that Reed is a teaching college, without a real graduate program. That's a great thing; it means professors come to Reed to teach undergraduates, that is all they do, they are not distracted by chasing research grants and trying to publish major papers. Your daughter will be taught by professors, not grad student TAs. On the flip side the professors do have side research projects working with undergrads, and in some departments like Biology are well regarded.
I don't know as much about Lewis & Clark; we never interacted, opposite side of town. It's a good school but I think is considered a lower tier than Reed. You mentioned UC schools: another obvious difference is school size. Reed's like 1400 people, you kind of know everyone. I liked that a lot.
posted by Nelson at 10:25 AM on August 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
I taught at Reed for four years. It contains our nation's #1 most intensely fun-to-teach undergraduates.
posted by feral_goldfish at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by feral_goldfish at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
I just re-read my post, and thought it might cause a bit of a stir, let me clairify:
I'm sure there are plenty of really nice people who've gone to Reed; I've just not met many of them. The OP was just looking for different perspectives of the school. I'm quite glad there's a counterpoint.
(and you all sound delightful, and I'd love to share a cup of coffee with any mefite, anyday, reedie or not!)
posted by furnace.heart at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2012
I'm sure there are plenty of really nice people who've gone to Reed; I've just not met many of them. The OP was just looking for different perspectives of the school. I'm quite glad there's a counterpoint.
(and you all sound delightful, and I'd love to share a cup of coffee with any mefite, anyday, reedie or not!)
posted by furnace.heart at 10:27 AM on August 14, 2012
I know several Reed alums, none of whom I would describe as having big egos. What they have in common is being smart and willing to pursue non-traditional paths and now making careers for themselves in unusual fields, like data visualization and atheist blogging.
posted by gingerbeer at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2012
posted by gingerbeer at 10:28 AM on August 14, 2012
Reedies are smart, intense, and fun.
On the other hand, the only person I knew who went to L&C got kicked out, so...
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:37 AM on August 14, 2012
On the other hand, the only person I knew who went to L&C got kicked out, so...
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:37 AM on August 14, 2012
The one Reed grad I know was a red-diaper baby who's now a Federal prosecutor. Shows to go ya'. I'd say that the private college tuition isn't worth the money, no matter where she goes, but it does depend on the UC--UCLA or Berkeley easily beat out Riverside.
posted by Ideefixe at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2012
posted by Ideefixe at 10:49 AM on August 14, 2012
I am so CLOSE to being useful here, and yet not. I got my law degree at LC. Agree with all the comments that the campus is gorgeous and that Portland is wonderful.
Everyone I know who graduated from Reed went on to get at least one graduate degree. Everyone I know who graduated from Lewis and Clark didn't.
Come now.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Everyone I know who graduated from Reed went on to get at least one graduate degree. Everyone I know who graduated from Lewis and Clark didn't.
Come now.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 11:10 AM on August 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
A friend of mine went to Reed. She has a somewhat big ego but she has whopping student loans. Like $750/ month till she's 35 loans. For a bio degree. She regrets going there, even though she enjoyed it.
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I went to Reed, and the only other schools I was considering were also UC (I didn't apply to LC though). The first few years I was there, I felt like I was actually doing more unlearning than learning -- getting rid of bad habits and garbage I picked up in my crummy underfunded high school -- and now that I have some perspective on that (class of '00) in a lot of ways I think that was more valuable than the "actual" education. Obviously there's no way to know for sure since I stayed at Reed the whole time, but I don't feel like I would have gotten the same experience at a UC, at least not until I was an upperclassman. The things that I think made a big difference were the things that set Reed apart: the lack of grade inflation and approach to grades in general, the rigor, the class size, etc. Now, whether those things are worth the extra financial blow...
I agree that Reed tended to be pretty insular, but I feel like that was largely because there's quite a bit of studying expected, so there just wasn't a lot of time to get off campus very often. Again, I have no personal basis of comparison, but at the time (late 90s) there were some stats about "most hours spent in the library" from a Princeton Review thing or similar (pardon my lack of source there) and Reed was at the top, and I can attest that I did have to study quite a bit, and the people I knew who didn't tended to change schools.
As for a few of the other outside perceptions (myths?) that tend to get kicked around, in this thread and elsewhere:
Ego: I run into this sentiment sometimes. I think any school is going to have some jerks, and I think pickypicky makes a good point about overcompensating. Also, I think it's natural to travel to a new place and immerse yourself in something new and exciting and have that inflate your opinion of yourself, at least (hopefully) temporarily. I know I felt like Mr. Big Stuff leaving my small town and coming to a cool place like Portland. But... I don't think that's Reed, I think it's just college, period. Every school seems to have a little bit of a schoolie/townie dynamic to some extent, and I think this is a part of that -- in my experience, a school's biggest detractors are often the ones who grew up nearby.
Drugs: I always thought this was overblown. If something happened at Reed, it just hit so much closer to home because of the intimacy that comes from such a small campus, but the "institutionalized drug culture" stuff always smacked of sensationalism to me. If people out of the house for the first time wanna get crazy, they're gonna get crazy no matter which school they go to.
(I felt like those were worth a mention, just so you didn't think your daughter was going to come home all smugs and drugs.)
posted by vaaaase at 12:26 PM on August 14, 2012
I agree that Reed tended to be pretty insular, but I feel like that was largely because there's quite a bit of studying expected, so there just wasn't a lot of time to get off campus very often. Again, I have no personal basis of comparison, but at the time (late 90s) there were some stats about "most hours spent in the library" from a Princeton Review thing or similar (pardon my lack of source there) and Reed was at the top, and I can attest that I did have to study quite a bit, and the people I knew who didn't tended to change schools.
As for a few of the other outside perceptions (myths?) that tend to get kicked around, in this thread and elsewhere:
Ego: I run into this sentiment sometimes. I think any school is going to have some jerks, and I think pickypicky makes a good point about overcompensating. Also, I think it's natural to travel to a new place and immerse yourself in something new and exciting and have that inflate your opinion of yourself, at least (hopefully) temporarily. I know I felt like Mr. Big Stuff leaving my small town and coming to a cool place like Portland. But... I don't think that's Reed, I think it's just college, period. Every school seems to have a little bit of a schoolie/townie dynamic to some extent, and I think this is a part of that -- in my experience, a school's biggest detractors are often the ones who grew up nearby.
Drugs: I always thought this was overblown. If something happened at Reed, it just hit so much closer to home because of the intimacy that comes from such a small campus, but the "institutionalized drug culture" stuff always smacked of sensationalism to me. If people out of the house for the first time wanna get crazy, they're gonna get crazy no matter which school they go to.
(I felt like those were worth a mention, just so you didn't think your daughter was going to come home all smugs and drugs.)
posted by vaaaase at 12:26 PM on August 14, 2012
I have some friends who went to Reed and they all enjoyed the intense academic experience, although a couple didn't actually graduate. But in hindsight, some of them do not think the enormous debt they took on was worth it.
posted by grouse at 12:27 PM on August 14, 2012
posted by grouse at 12:27 PM on August 14, 2012
I was in your daughter's shoes ten years ago.
I was a Southern California kid who applied to Reed and Lewis and Clark and the UCs.
Reed is beautiful in a beautiful part of town, with a very vibrant intellectual culture. I did not go to Reed, because the financial aid only kicks in after your first year and I took a look at the debt load and passed. I now have many good friends and neighbors who went to Reed and they are lovely lovely quirky people.
I went to Lewis & Clark. My sister, 2 years behind me, also chose LC. I got a history degree and went into tech, she got a biology degree with a minor in art and chemistry. We both got to go overseas - I spent a semester in Italy, she spent a semester in Australia. Unless you were a full on biochem major, you were expected to go overseas at least one semester, which makes things -very- interesting as a student.
I took advantage of the room + board in exchange for being an RA. My sister had phenomenal scholarships. We both graduated with minimal debt load and great college experiences. I could probably go on for ages about the differences between the two schools, the experience of moving north as an 18 year old (I never came back and I bought a house in Portland last year), the experience of going to school in Portland, but I'd be happy to talk to you. Me-mail me.
posted by msamye at 12:43 PM on August 14, 2012
I was a Southern California kid who applied to Reed and Lewis and Clark and the UCs.
Reed is beautiful in a beautiful part of town, with a very vibrant intellectual culture. I did not go to Reed, because the financial aid only kicks in after your first year and I took a look at the debt load and passed. I now have many good friends and neighbors who went to Reed and they are lovely lovely quirky people.
I went to Lewis & Clark. My sister, 2 years behind me, also chose LC. I got a history degree and went into tech, she got a biology degree with a minor in art and chemistry. We both got to go overseas - I spent a semester in Italy, she spent a semester in Australia. Unless you were a full on biochem major, you were expected to go overseas at least one semester, which makes things -very- interesting as a student.
I took advantage of the room + board in exchange for being an RA. My sister had phenomenal scholarships. We both graduated with minimal debt load and great college experiences. I could probably go on for ages about the differences between the two schools, the experience of moving north as an 18 year old (I never came back and I bought a house in Portland last year), the experience of going to school in Portland, but I'd be happy to talk to you. Me-mail me.
posted by msamye at 12:43 PM on August 14, 2012
One of my friends went to Lewis and Clark and she said it was the best time of her life. Lots of like-minded, intelligent, liberal kids with a desire to change the world and really make it happen. :)
posted by Hello Darling at 12:59 PM on August 14, 2012
posted by Hello Darling at 12:59 PM on August 14, 2012
I graduated from LC in '99, and have lived in Portland non-stop since '95. My sense of the two is...
The anecdata about Reed being a druggy school was definitely true back then (not that LC is/was full of saints...) and that it's likely still true today. I'd say that the folks at Reed are slightly more intellectual and slightly quirkier as a group. I sort of like the location of Reed better in terms of convenience, and as I recall they have less draconian residency and parking rules.
For LC my sense is that if your daughter is looking to go overseas in her four years she'd absolutely love it. I was a biochem major who shifted to CS/Math at just the wrong time, so I'm one of the only people I know who graduated from LC that didn't spend at least a semester overseas. Job placement after school was non-existent, and I never get the sense that going there has more cachet than say UofO or OSU. I know quite a few folks who have gone on to do interesting things after LC, many of them in science and law, but that may be simply because those were the folks I hung out with more often. My wife got her Masters from the teaching school, and my sense was that her grad-school program was excellent.
posted by togdon at 1:02 PM on August 14, 2012
The anecdata about Reed being a druggy school was definitely true back then (not that LC is/was full of saints...) and that it's likely still true today. I'd say that the folks at Reed are slightly more intellectual and slightly quirkier as a group. I sort of like the location of Reed better in terms of convenience, and as I recall they have less draconian residency and parking rules.
For LC my sense is that if your daughter is looking to go overseas in her four years she'd absolutely love it. I was a biochem major who shifted to CS/Math at just the wrong time, so I'm one of the only people I know who graduated from LC that didn't spend at least a semester overseas. Job placement after school was non-existent, and I never get the sense that going there has more cachet than say UofO or OSU. I know quite a few folks who have gone on to do interesting things after LC, many of them in science and law, but that may be simply because those were the folks I hung out with more often. My wife got her Masters from the teaching school, and my sense was that her grad-school program was excellent.
posted by togdon at 1:02 PM on August 14, 2012
rabbitrabbit lies! She knows me and I am a LC grad and have a (totally useless) graduate degree as well! (My husband is a alum also, but smartly avoided useless graduate degrees.)
I suspect things have changed in the twenty-one years since I've been there so know how relevant my experience would be to your daughter. I enjoyed my time at LC and think I received a good education.
I will say that the Estate Pool is the best place to be on a scorching summer day, but that should really be kept a secret. (shhh, metafilter meet up Wednesday, 4-ish. Look for the pink and green striped towel.)
posted by vespabelle at 1:03 PM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I suspect things have changed in the twenty-one years since I've been there so know how relevant my experience would be to your daughter. I enjoyed my time at LC and think I received a good education.
I will say that the Estate Pool is the best place to be on a scorching summer day, but that should really be kept a secret. (shhh, metafilter meet up Wednesday, 4-ish. Look for the pink and green striped towel.)
posted by vespabelle at 1:03 PM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I went to Reed (graduated '09).
Things people have said here that are true in my experience:
It's academically intense, it's expensive, it's insular because there's so much studying that getting off campus is unusually difficult. Reedies tend cultivate weirdness, and are engaged both academically and creatively; there is a strong sense of community and lore that may make it easier to be weird there. When I lived in Portland, folks were regularly shocked that I was a Reedie because I didn't fit their stereotypes: I don't do drugs, I graduated in four years, I'm not dickish about going to Reed, I was heavily involved in community service. I'd say, however, that that's a huge part of Reed's population, and most of the rest is confirmation bias.
I've known several people from Lewis and Clark, and they were equally amazing and capable as Reedies I knew in the same context-- and they were overall more socially well-adjusted than Reed students. However, they never expressed for Lewis and Clark the same deep love and community that Reedies have expressed to me for Reed. There are countless drawbacks, but I'm a Reed fan. For what it's worth, I work at a UC now and am also applying for graduate schools, and I have a confidence and familiarity with academia that I don't think I'd have without Reed's small and supportive community.
posted by verbyournouns at 1:16 PM on August 14, 2012
Things people have said here that are true in my experience:
It's academically intense, it's expensive, it's insular because there's so much studying that getting off campus is unusually difficult. Reedies tend cultivate weirdness, and are engaged both academically and creatively; there is a strong sense of community and lore that may make it easier to be weird there. When I lived in Portland, folks were regularly shocked that I was a Reedie because I didn't fit their stereotypes: I don't do drugs, I graduated in four years, I'm not dickish about going to Reed, I was heavily involved in community service. I'd say, however, that that's a huge part of Reed's population, and most of the rest is confirmation bias.
I've known several people from Lewis and Clark, and they were equally amazing and capable as Reedies I knew in the same context-- and they were overall more socially well-adjusted than Reed students. However, they never expressed for Lewis and Clark the same deep love and community that Reedies have expressed to me for Reed. There are countless drawbacks, but I'm a Reed fan. For what it's worth, I work at a UC now and am also applying for graduate schools, and I have a confidence and familiarity with academia that I don't think I'd have without Reed's small and supportive community.
posted by verbyournouns at 1:16 PM on August 14, 2012
I don't know too much about Reed, specifically, but I would like to chime in on the differences between going to a small liberal arts college, as compared to a big public university, like the UCs.
I went to a similarly "intense" liberal arts college, and I would caution anybody considering this route to consider the fit very, very carefully. For the right student, a place like this can be amazing, but for the wrong student it can be a disaster. (Which explains stories like ODs, burning out, frequent transferring, etc.) For me, the main differences would be:
1) The social scene
At a large University, it might take awhile to find your tribe, but there are many social options. At a small school, its much easier to make friends, but its also true that some social scenes are more dominant. (For example, Williams is pretty well-known for having more of a drunk jock culture, while Swarthmore has a contingent of fantasy-LARPers.) Does your daughter see herself as fitting in with one of the dominant scenes? Is she good at making new friends, or is she nervous enough about that aspect that a small school would be better? Is she okay with her social circle being from the Reed "bubble", or will she put in the effort to be part of the larger Portland community?
2) The academic education
I think that small LACs were made for students who like to read heavy texts for fun. I'm sure at Reed, the classes will be top-notch, but if I also bet they are VERY time-consuming. Would your daughter prefer to spend a weekend socializing (and building a future network), or researching term papers? If the answer is not researching term papers, then she should think about whether or not she'd feel comfortable being "behind" her classmates.
Also, if your daughter would like to study Science, rather than humanities, not having access to a regular undergraduate research position could put her behind her UC counterparts. It would be up to her, to make up for it with summer internships. Also, she should keep in mind how devoted she is to her current choice of major. If she decides in her second year that she'd like to switch or specialize in a specific subject, it may not be available.
3) Future opportunities
I think if your daughter is planning to pursue graduate school, med school, or law school, Reed will give her a leg up because of its reputation in academia and because it will prepare her for the intensity of graduate studies. However, if she is looking to join the workforce right away, she should keep in mind that she will have put in as much effort as an Ivy league student but won't have the brand name network or prestige. It can be hard to market her degree, and I have a number of friends who couldn't find jobs after graduation.
All of this of course, doesn't even touch the question of what makes the most sense financially. However, I wouldn't assume off-the-bat that Reed will be more expensive. It really depends on where you fall on the financial aid spectrum, since LACs can generally be more flexible with middle-income households. But if your daughter will be using loans to pay "sticker price", then yes, please make sure she understands what this means for her living standards after she graduates.
(Feel free to memail me if you or your daughter would like to chat more.)
posted by tinymegalo at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2012
I went to a similarly "intense" liberal arts college, and I would caution anybody considering this route to consider the fit very, very carefully. For the right student, a place like this can be amazing, but for the wrong student it can be a disaster. (Which explains stories like ODs, burning out, frequent transferring, etc.) For me, the main differences would be:
1) The social scene
At a large University, it might take awhile to find your tribe, but there are many social options. At a small school, its much easier to make friends, but its also true that some social scenes are more dominant. (For example, Williams is pretty well-known for having more of a drunk jock culture, while Swarthmore has a contingent of fantasy-LARPers.) Does your daughter see herself as fitting in with one of the dominant scenes? Is she good at making new friends, or is she nervous enough about that aspect that a small school would be better? Is she okay with her social circle being from the Reed "bubble", or will she put in the effort to be part of the larger Portland community?
2) The academic education
I think that small LACs were made for students who like to read heavy texts for fun. I'm sure at Reed, the classes will be top-notch, but if I also bet they are VERY time-consuming. Would your daughter prefer to spend a weekend socializing (and building a future network), or researching term papers? If the answer is not researching term papers, then she should think about whether or not she'd feel comfortable being "behind" her classmates.
Also, if your daughter would like to study Science, rather than humanities, not having access to a regular undergraduate research position could put her behind her UC counterparts. It would be up to her, to make up for it with summer internships. Also, she should keep in mind how devoted she is to her current choice of major. If she decides in her second year that she'd like to switch or specialize in a specific subject, it may not be available.
3) Future opportunities
I think if your daughter is planning to pursue graduate school, med school, or law school, Reed will give her a leg up because of its reputation in academia and because it will prepare her for the intensity of graduate studies. However, if she is looking to join the workforce right away, she should keep in mind that she will have put in as much effort as an Ivy league student but won't have the brand name network or prestige. It can be hard to market her degree, and I have a number of friends who couldn't find jobs after graduation.
All of this of course, doesn't even touch the question of what makes the most sense financially. However, I wouldn't assume off-the-bat that Reed will be more expensive. It really depends on where you fall on the financial aid spectrum, since LACs can generally be more flexible with middle-income households. But if your daughter will be using loans to pay "sticker price", then yes, please make sure she understands what this means for her living standards after she graduates.
(Feel free to memail me if you or your daughter would like to chat more.)
posted by tinymegalo at 1:17 PM on August 14, 2012
I lived in Portland for ten years and dated women from both Lewis & Clark and Reed. One girlfriend moved from Riverside, CA to go to school at Lewis & Clark. I would unreservedly recommend the education at either school. They really go out of their way to focus on practical learning in whatever field that your daughter is considering studying, and studies are really rather intense, especially at Reed.
However ... If your daughter goes to either school, depending on her background, expect her to change somewhat radically. The academic world at both schools is intense, and students seem to deal with that by what adults would call "acting out" ... if your daughter does not smoke pot, she will, and if she doesn't have any interest in tattoos or piercings and whatever the current music scene at each school is, you can expect her to develop them. You may not recognize her after she's spent a few years at either school. Reed, in particular, is literally like dropping back into the 60's/70's "summer of love" culture. They've put a bit more of a lid on it in recent years and kept it confined to campus (and kept outsiders off the campus during the especially weird times), but outsiders are still a little shocked most of the time. If you're going to have a problem with this as a parent -- if you or your immediate family has rigid religious beliefs, rigid ideas of propriety, behavior, relationships, etc -- you would probably want to urge her to not go to one of these schools.
All of the students that I have known that went to these schools have ended up being successful in their chosen academic or business world, even if they dropped out halfway and went to work for a startup. However, the alumni ties at Reed are a bit stronger across different fields and Reedies generally are WILDLY successful using that network -- or they end up teaching at a community college for $30k/yr because they've ended up too oddball to function in normal society. (This trend, admittedly, seems to be based on how weird they were BEFORE they went into Reed, so take it with a grain of salt. Reed's just an amplifier for weird.) Lewis & Clark only has strong alumni ties if she were to go on to study law at L&C's law school, and I know many L&C grads who have gone on to be successful but generally lead a little more understated adult lives.
posted by SpecialK at 1:20 PM on August 14, 2012
However ... If your daughter goes to either school, depending on her background, expect her to change somewhat radically. The academic world at both schools is intense, and students seem to deal with that by what adults would call "acting out" ... if your daughter does not smoke pot, she will, and if she doesn't have any interest in tattoos or piercings and whatever the current music scene at each school is, you can expect her to develop them. You may not recognize her after she's spent a few years at either school. Reed, in particular, is literally like dropping back into the 60's/70's "summer of love" culture. They've put a bit more of a lid on it in recent years and kept it confined to campus (and kept outsiders off the campus during the especially weird times), but outsiders are still a little shocked most of the time. If you're going to have a problem with this as a parent -- if you or your immediate family has rigid religious beliefs, rigid ideas of propriety, behavior, relationships, etc -- you would probably want to urge her to not go to one of these schools.
All of the students that I have known that went to these schools have ended up being successful in their chosen academic or business world, even if they dropped out halfway and went to work for a startup. However, the alumni ties at Reed are a bit stronger across different fields and Reedies generally are WILDLY successful using that network -- or they end up teaching at a community college for $30k/yr because they've ended up too oddball to function in normal society. (This trend, admittedly, seems to be based on how weird they were BEFORE they went into Reed, so take it with a grain of salt. Reed's just an amplifier for weird.) Lewis & Clark only has strong alumni ties if she were to go on to study law at L&C's law school, and I know many L&C grads who have gone on to be successful but generally lead a little more understated adult lives.
posted by SpecialK at 1:20 PM on August 14, 2012
tinymegalo nailed it, in my opinion. Forgot to mention: if you want to talk to a moderately recent grad, memail me!
posted by verbyournouns at 1:23 PM on August 14, 2012
posted by verbyournouns at 1:23 PM on August 14, 2012
vespabelle: how did I not know that?
OP: ignore my previous comment; in addition to being confirmation bias, it's apparently also patently false.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:52 PM on August 14, 2012
OP: ignore my previous comment; in addition to being confirmation bias, it's apparently also patently false.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:52 PM on August 14, 2012
Hi! I graduated from LC in May. I was an English major, honor student, etc. I also applied to a ton of University of California schools and considered Reed, though I didn't apply there. I loved my time at LC and I'd like to speak to its merits independent of Reed's, which I'm mostly familiar with through rumors (intense academics! drugs! lots of drugs!). Of course, like any liberal arts school, LC offers the benefit of small classes, tight-knit community, and well-rounded education. Here are some of LC's strong points beyond these benefits:
Overseas program. One of the biggest things that drew me to the school was learning that over 60% of students study abroad in their 4 years. I studied in the Czech Republic, which was not even a program offered at LC, and was patiently led through the process of applying, transferring credits, getting a visa, etc. I can think of only a handful of people I knew who did NOT study abroad.
Campus. Seriously, it is the most beautiful campus I have ever seen. If you have to spend 4 years somewhere, it should be pretty, at least.
Professor/faculty/student relationships. I left LC with not one or two but closer to six or seven highly involved mentors who coached me through my academic and personal life throughout college. My academic advisor, poetry teacher, work-study bosses, thesis advisor, the professor I assisted with research - these are the people who made my time at LC truly worthwhile. I spent hours in their offices, seeking guidance, working out problems, laughing, crying. It made me smarter just to talk to them. From what I know of my friends' experiences, this is very common. LC makes a point of encouraging student/faculty collaboration and offers a number of grants to fund collaborative research. tinymegalo mentions that your daughter may not have access to undergrad research positions in the sciences, but I can think of three friends off the top of my head who had these positions. LC's biology department is particularly strong.
English department. This is where I spent most of my time and it's where I found a wonderful community of intelligent, inspired, committed, fun, kind, literature nerds. This department offers a lot of cool opportunities, including a travel grant for an independent research project (it's called the Dixon, I got it in 2011). If your daughter is interested in English studies, this would be a great place for her.
For what it's worth, I know a large handful of my graduating class who are going straight into grad school, and the vast majority of us are planning on getting another degree or two. One of my closest friends is getting his MFA in Sculpture after double majoring in French and studio art; another is going to med school after getting her degree in Biology. LC is as rigorous and rewarding as you make it.
Please feel free to memail me with any specific questions and I'm sure your daughter will love wherever she ends up!
posted by rabbitbookworm at 2:54 PM on August 14, 2012
Overseas program. One of the biggest things that drew me to the school was learning that over 60% of students study abroad in their 4 years. I studied in the Czech Republic, which was not even a program offered at LC, and was patiently led through the process of applying, transferring credits, getting a visa, etc. I can think of only a handful of people I knew who did NOT study abroad.
Campus. Seriously, it is the most beautiful campus I have ever seen. If you have to spend 4 years somewhere, it should be pretty, at least.
Professor/faculty/student relationships. I left LC with not one or two but closer to six or seven highly involved mentors who coached me through my academic and personal life throughout college. My academic advisor, poetry teacher, work-study bosses, thesis advisor, the professor I assisted with research - these are the people who made my time at LC truly worthwhile. I spent hours in their offices, seeking guidance, working out problems, laughing, crying. It made me smarter just to talk to them. From what I know of my friends' experiences, this is very common. LC makes a point of encouraging student/faculty collaboration and offers a number of grants to fund collaborative research. tinymegalo mentions that your daughter may not have access to undergrad research positions in the sciences, but I can think of three friends off the top of my head who had these positions. LC's biology department is particularly strong.
English department. This is where I spent most of my time and it's where I found a wonderful community of intelligent, inspired, committed, fun, kind, literature nerds. This department offers a lot of cool opportunities, including a travel grant for an independent research project (it's called the Dixon, I got it in 2011). If your daughter is interested in English studies, this would be a great place for her.
For what it's worth, I know a large handful of my graduating class who are going straight into grad school, and the vast majority of us are planning on getting another degree or two. One of my closest friends is getting his MFA in Sculpture after double majoring in French and studio art; another is going to med school after getting her degree in Biology. LC is as rigorous and rewarding as you make it.
Please feel free to memail me with any specific questions and I'm sure your daughter will love wherever she ends up!
posted by rabbitbookworm at 2:54 PM on August 14, 2012
I went to Reed and loved it. I didn't realize how well the college had prepared me until I hit my PhD program. The short version is I think Reed is great and I recommend it enthusiastically to students who I think would be a good fit there (I worked in Admissions as a student and do alumni interviewing now) but it isn't for everyone. The best strategy would be to visit and see if it's your kid's cup of tea. As for the cost: it is expensive, but the financial aid is decent and getting better all the time. A good friend of mine paid 25 cents a term to attend on need-based aid (this was within the last 10 years). I don't know anyone who took eight years to graduate though I do know plenty who took five. I did my time in four.
posted by blue_bicycle at 3:27 PM on August 14, 2012
posted by blue_bicycle at 3:27 PM on August 14, 2012
Echoing tinymegalo: I, too, caution anyone considering an "intense" college to carefully consider what their life there would be like. Do they want to spend endless hours (afternoons, evenings, weekends) reading, doing homework, and writing papers? Or would they be a better fit for a less "intense" academic environment that allows some free time to be a human being? (Disclosure: Having graduated from the former, I wish I'd gone to the latter. I think the four years spent in college should be about more than just academics.)
posted by exphysicist345 at 3:36 PM on August 14, 2012
posted by exphysicist345 at 3:36 PM on August 14, 2012
I'm a Reedie, graduated 2006, and I love that place. I live in town and head to campus occasionally, getting involved with Reunions and assorted alumni things as I can.
Here's my best recommendation for deciding about it: When I visited, I had this overwhelming feeling of, "This is my own personal Hogwarts!" If she feels that way, it's probably a good school for her.
The college has a national perception of being highly academically reputable -- this is very true. It has a more local perception of being a "drug school." While it is true that some portion of students does drugs, I think the reputation is more due to a couple of factors: 1) Renn Fayre, a three-day party after classes end, and 2) the Honor Principle. Reed did not have an official drug policy for a long time. The general attitude is/used to be that the students are adults, and they should be trusted to make adult decisions. So the administration mostly turned a blind eye. This is no longer true. Yes, students still do drugs; I don't think they do them in any greater numbers than students at any other colleges. The ones who are heavy users tend to drop out quickly. (I personally lived in the substance-free dorm my first two years, and just happened not to do any illegal drugs while in college. Caffeine, on the other hand...)
Locally, there is also a strong impression that Reedies are obnoxious. Recent grads and current students tend to be proud of their Reedie-ness, and, yes, a bit pompous. This tends to fade with time.
I really loved my experiences there, student debt and all.
I have a friend who teaches at LC, as well as a few friends who attended school there, and they have good things to say about it. As someone mentioned above, few of them enthuse the way Reedies tend to, but they all seem to have had good experiences. The friend who teaches there enjoys the students a lot. They do seem a little...cleaner?...than Reedies.
posted by linettasky at 5:18 PM on August 14, 2012
Here's my best recommendation for deciding about it: When I visited, I had this overwhelming feeling of, "This is my own personal Hogwarts!" If she feels that way, it's probably a good school for her.
The college has a national perception of being highly academically reputable -- this is very true. It has a more local perception of being a "drug school." While it is true that some portion of students does drugs, I think the reputation is more due to a couple of factors: 1) Renn Fayre, a three-day party after classes end, and 2) the Honor Principle. Reed did not have an official drug policy for a long time. The general attitude is/used to be that the students are adults, and they should be trusted to make adult decisions. So the administration mostly turned a blind eye. This is no longer true. Yes, students still do drugs; I don't think they do them in any greater numbers than students at any other colleges. The ones who are heavy users tend to drop out quickly. (I personally lived in the substance-free dorm my first two years, and just happened not to do any illegal drugs while in college. Caffeine, on the other hand...)
Locally, there is also a strong impression that Reedies are obnoxious. Recent grads and current students tend to be proud of their Reedie-ness, and, yes, a bit pompous. This tends to fade with time.
I really loved my experiences there, student debt and all.
I have a friend who teaches at LC, as well as a few friends who attended school there, and they have good things to say about it. As someone mentioned above, few of them enthuse the way Reedies tend to, but they all seem to have had good experiences. The friend who teaches there enjoys the students a lot. They do seem a little...cleaner?...than Reedies.
posted by linettasky at 5:18 PM on August 14, 2012
I am a Reed grad (01) not from the Pacific NW, and also an alumni interviewer for prospective Reed students. When prospective students tell me they have applied to both, I assume they just want to move to the PacNW, because to my mind these two schools have very little in common.
I am sure L&C has lots to recommend it but I can't comment--I just don't know much about it. I am sure the many previous commenters have gone into the positives on both. But you don't go to Reed just because it's a good liberal arts school. You go there because you want to work really hard, have inexhaustable curiosity, and are a kind of weird dork. The best answer to whether Reed is for you or not is visiting. Answering whether it's for you or not should be a lot easier than lots of other colleges!
If you have questions, esp. about the interview process, feel free to message.
posted by jennybento at 6:27 PM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am sure L&C has lots to recommend it but I can't comment--I just don't know much about it. I am sure the many previous commenters have gone into the positives on both. But you don't go to Reed just because it's a good liberal arts school. You go there because you want to work really hard, have inexhaustable curiosity, and are a kind of weird dork. The best answer to whether Reed is for you or not is visiting. Answering whether it's for you or not should be a lot easier than lots of other colleges!
If you have questions, esp. about the interview process, feel free to message.
posted by jennybento at 6:27 PM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I graduated from LC with a bachelor's in English in 1991, so my experience might have been too long ago to be of use to you now. I'm going to respond anyway.
I readily agree with everyone here who says that Reed generally has a better academic reputation than LC. It's a very intense place in that regard. When I was in college, Reed was well-known as being especially friendly to illicit substances and no wonder. When you consider the rigor of the academic program, it made sense. However, they are less tolerant now than they used to be. Reed is also easier to get to than LC. I will say that getting off campus from LC was sort of arduous, and nigh impossible on a Sunday. It's a damn sight easier from Reed.
When I was at LC its great focus was (and probably still is, but who knows because I haven't kept up) on international affairs, and they had an excellent overseas study program. With only a couple of exceptions, everyone I knew who went on a trip had a fantastic and life-changing experience. In general, there were most of the advantages available in a small liberal arts setting -- relatively small classes, close collaboration with professors, the ability to explore and develop your own line(s) of interest. But these were not unique to LC.
A few years after graduating from LC I went to the University of Washington and got a library degree (hi, jessamyn!). I'm very glad to have been exposed to both public and private education in that way. They each have tremendous advantages. However, the expense of privately-funded higher education is really not worth it to me any more, and if I had to do it over again I would probably go for the public university.
Whichever school she chooses, Portland is a great town. I ended up moving back right after grad school and have been here ever since. I fucking love this place.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 8:20 PM on August 14, 2012
I readily agree with everyone here who says that Reed generally has a better academic reputation than LC. It's a very intense place in that regard. When I was in college, Reed was well-known as being especially friendly to illicit substances and no wonder. When you consider the rigor of the academic program, it made sense. However, they are less tolerant now than they used to be. Reed is also easier to get to than LC. I will say that getting off campus from LC was sort of arduous, and nigh impossible on a Sunday. It's a damn sight easier from Reed.
When I was at LC its great focus was (and probably still is, but who knows because I haven't kept up) on international affairs, and they had an excellent overseas study program. With only a couple of exceptions, everyone I knew who went on a trip had a fantastic and life-changing experience. In general, there were most of the advantages available in a small liberal arts setting -- relatively small classes, close collaboration with professors, the ability to explore and develop your own line(s) of interest. But these were not unique to LC.
A few years after graduating from LC I went to the University of Washington and got a library degree (hi, jessamyn!). I'm very glad to have been exposed to both public and private education in that way. They each have tremendous advantages. However, the expense of privately-funded higher education is really not worth it to me any more, and if I had to do it over again I would probably go for the public university.
Whichever school she chooses, Portland is a great town. I ended up moving back right after grad school and have been here ever since. I fucking love this place.
posted by That's Numberwang! at 8:20 PM on August 14, 2012
I was in the same department as Nelson, at roughly the same time. His comment is right on.
I went on to get a math PhD, which gave me some additional perspective: I now really understood how top-notch and dedicated the Reed faculty was, as mathematicians and as teachers, in a way I didn't appreciate before. And it was a real privilege to get so much time with them. Faculty outside the math department seemed great too.
Having spent time at a big research university: there's lots of great stuff going on, and motivated students can definitely get involved. They need to have more initiative (seek out those REU programs and internships!). At a place like Reed it's the default.
Some of the above comments about the culture sound partly right, but maybe also a little over the top.
Keep in mind:
- College reputations can be a little exaggerated and out-of-date.
- Students can sometimes be as taken in by the myths and stereotypes as anyone else.
So try to find reliable sources of information, and take everything you hear with a huge grain of salt.
On the other hand, you may as well just believe everything you hear about Portland. That TV series is a documentary. I fell in love with that city.
Also, just another data point on the drug question: on the last day of classes my senior year, I had a single beer. I may have very rarely had a cup of coffee. That was the sum total of my recreational drug use at Reed.
posted by bfields at 8:32 PM on August 14, 2012
I went on to get a math PhD, which gave me some additional perspective: I now really understood how top-notch and dedicated the Reed faculty was, as mathematicians and as teachers, in a way I didn't appreciate before. And it was a real privilege to get so much time with them. Faculty outside the math department seemed great too.
Having spent time at a big research university: there's lots of great stuff going on, and motivated students can definitely get involved. They need to have more initiative (seek out those REU programs and internships!). At a place like Reed it's the default.
Some of the above comments about the culture sound partly right, but maybe also a little over the top.
Keep in mind:
- College reputations can be a little exaggerated and out-of-date.
- Students can sometimes be as taken in by the myths and stereotypes as anyone else.
So try to find reliable sources of information, and take everything you hear with a huge grain of salt.
On the other hand, you may as well just believe everything you hear about Portland. That TV series is a documentary. I fell in love with that city.
Also, just another data point on the drug question: on the last day of classes my senior year, I had a single beer. I may have very rarely had a cup of coffee. That was the sum total of my recreational drug use at Reed.
posted by bfields at 8:32 PM on August 14, 2012
Another Reedie here, class of '04 and also the child of two Reedies who met there in the 1970s. When I was applying to colleges, I really didn't want to go to Reed until I visited; I was resistant to the idea of applying to my parents' school, but getting on campus made it clear that it was the right place for me. The campus is beautiful, but it's also clearly a place where people genuinely enjoy and care about their intellectual and academic endeavours, and a place that's as friendly as it is intense. After a few years there, I realized that the intensity of academic focus can also make it alienating at times, but that (as I've learned in grad school) can be true at any intellecturally rigorous school. It's not clear from your question whether your daughter interviewed on campus or with an alumni interviewer-- did she get to go there? That might make a big difference in her sense of the place.
And, btw, my parents, who graduated in the 1970s, would laugh pretty hard at the comment above that says that going to Reed now is like going back to the 1960s or '70s, and it's clear to me that the place has changed a lot even since I've been there. As linettasky points out, there's an official drug policy now. Buildings are also locked at night, and a lot of thought over the years has gone into how to continue to keep campus safe without limiting students' freedoms. It is a place where you're allowed a lot of freedom, and that doesn't work for some people, but for others it's extraordinary. When people ask me about Reed I generally say that people either love it or they hate it. I loved it, but it's definitely not the place for everyone, and that's nothing against it or the people for whom it's not the right school.
The smallness of Reed is wonderful, and leads to a real sense of community; you generally feel that you know everyone else on campus, even if just by sight. And in later years, when you meet alumni around your age, you generally know a few of the same people, even if you don't exactly remember each other. That's part of why the alumni network is so strong; the other part is that Reedies are just generally interesting and interested people. When I lived in Portland after school, I hung out with a lot of Reedies mostly out of habit-- they were the people I knew. But as I moved around the country for schoool, I was suprised to find myself still wanting to hang out with Reedies, everywhere I lived, because they were always among the most interesting people I met, and while some of them may have thought highly of themselves, they didn't have the kind of big egos that kept them from also being interested in what other people were doing. Moreover, it's really easy to keep hanging out with Reedies if you're in academia; there are tons of us. As others say, that's definitely less the case in business or industry, but if she wants to go to grad school, Reed is a great bet. Or, if she's interested in running a nuclear reactor!
(And using this thread as anecdata, there are tons of us on MeFi, too! That's gotta mean something, right?)
posted by dizziest at 7:59 AM on August 15, 2012
And, btw, my parents, who graduated in the 1970s, would laugh pretty hard at the comment above that says that going to Reed now is like going back to the 1960s or '70s, and it's clear to me that the place has changed a lot even since I've been there. As linettasky points out, there's an official drug policy now. Buildings are also locked at night, and a lot of thought over the years has gone into how to continue to keep campus safe without limiting students' freedoms. It is a place where you're allowed a lot of freedom, and that doesn't work for some people, but for others it's extraordinary. When people ask me about Reed I generally say that people either love it or they hate it. I loved it, but it's definitely not the place for everyone, and that's nothing against it or the people for whom it's not the right school.
The smallness of Reed is wonderful, and leads to a real sense of community; you generally feel that you know everyone else on campus, even if just by sight. And in later years, when you meet alumni around your age, you generally know a few of the same people, even if you don't exactly remember each other. That's part of why the alumni network is so strong; the other part is that Reedies are just generally interesting and interested people. When I lived in Portland after school, I hung out with a lot of Reedies mostly out of habit-- they were the people I knew. But as I moved around the country for schoool, I was suprised to find myself still wanting to hang out with Reedies, everywhere I lived, because they were always among the most interesting people I met, and while some of them may have thought highly of themselves, they didn't have the kind of big egos that kept them from also being interested in what other people were doing. Moreover, it's really easy to keep hanging out with Reedies if you're in academia; there are tons of us. As others say, that's definitely less the case in business or industry, but if she wants to go to grad school, Reed is a great bet. Or, if she's interested in running a nuclear reactor!
(And using this thread as anecdata, there are tons of us on MeFi, too! That's gotta mean something, right?)
posted by dizziest at 7:59 AM on August 15, 2012
Oy, for real. So many Reedies here!
Class of '01. Met jennybento at a Chicago-area pre-freshmen meet-up in '97. Had dinner with linettasky last night. Bffs with vaaaase and dizziest.
I know one person who wend to LC for undergrad. She and I were very close friends as children. I frequently saw her on Reed campus trying to score drugs. She ended up dropping out of LC after a few years, having a series of breakdowns and being hospitalized, and last I saw was arrested for assault in front of her own house. You could draw a lot of conclusions about LC from that, but they'd be wrong.
My point is this: if you judge Reed as others have on the occasional high-profile drug cases (like a dude dealing WEED, man) that happen every few years, then you'd be judging it based on the actions of a very very small percentage of the population.
As for anyone having a chip on their shoulder, when I meet people in Portland who ask where I went to school, their responses to my response are usually either "Reed, where's that?" or "Ooooh you must think you're really smart." I'm a modest person, so it really bugs me when people respond with the latter.
Other people made a good point about the difficulty of getting off campus at LC. It is physically difficult to leave that campus. Heck, I even have had a hard time finding it when I've wanted to go see a performance there, for example.
The difficulty getting off campus at Reed is more the result of the pressures of getting a lot of work done. But there are a couple bus lines that make it quite easy to physically leave campus and end up somewhere non-Reed fairly quickly.
FWIW, Reed was the last school I visited and after spending an evening with some students (one of whom was friends with Vaaaase, it turns out), I changed my application to Early Decision and stopped sending in any more applications at other schools (including LC). That's how much I knew it was the right place for me.
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2012
Class of '01. Met jennybento at a Chicago-area pre-freshmen meet-up in '97. Had dinner with linettasky last night. Bffs with vaaaase and dizziest.
I know one person who wend to LC for undergrad. She and I were very close friends as children. I frequently saw her on Reed campus trying to score drugs. She ended up dropping out of LC after a few years, having a series of breakdowns and being hospitalized, and last I saw was arrested for assault in front of her own house. You could draw a lot of conclusions about LC from that, but they'd be wrong.
My point is this: if you judge Reed as others have on the occasional high-profile drug cases (like a dude dealing WEED, man) that happen every few years, then you'd be judging it based on the actions of a very very small percentage of the population.
As for anyone having a chip on their shoulder, when I meet people in Portland who ask where I went to school, their responses to my response are usually either "Reed, where's that?" or "Ooooh you must think you're really smart." I'm a modest person, so it really bugs me when people respond with the latter.
Other people made a good point about the difficulty of getting off campus at LC. It is physically difficult to leave that campus. Heck, I even have had a hard time finding it when I've wanted to go see a performance there, for example.
The difficulty getting off campus at Reed is more the result of the pressures of getting a lot of work done. But there are a couple bus lines that make it quite easy to physically leave campus and end up somewhere non-Reed fairly quickly.
FWIW, Reed was the last school I visited and after spending an evening with some students (one of whom was friends with Vaaaase, it turns out), I changed my application to Early Decision and stopped sending in any more applications at other schools (including LC). That's how much I knew it was the right place for me.
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:30 AM on August 15, 2012
er, went!
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2012
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2012
Just a quick anecdote, FWIW: my friend went to Reed, LOVED it to death, is currently working on her PhD (wants to teach at Reed someday), and has never done a drug in her life. Hasn't even smoked pot.
I have a very high opinion of Reed, but I'd be extremely wary of the cost. I don't think ANY undergraduate education is worth what the private schools are charging these days (or the public schools, for that matter). I know almost nothing about L&C, except that they have excellent animal law and environmental law programs. If it's economically feasible without huge loans, I would HIGHLY recommend either of those schools over any UC (I say this as a UC grad student). Except maybe Santa Cruz.
posted by désoeuvrée at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2012
I have a very high opinion of Reed, but I'd be extremely wary of the cost. I don't think ANY undergraduate education is worth what the private schools are charging these days (or the public schools, for that matter). I know almost nothing about L&C, except that they have excellent animal law and environmental law programs. If it's economically feasible without huge loans, I would HIGHLY recommend either of those schools over any UC (I say this as a UC grad student). Except maybe Santa Cruz.
posted by désoeuvrée at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2012
As a product of the UC for my PhD, I would not recommend a student going there for undergrad.
If you're a California resident and money is an issue, MAYBE... But for the education she'll get... No way. Class sizes are huge and getting bigger. Resources are scarce.
posted by k8t at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2012
If you're a California resident and money is an issue, MAYBE... But for the education she'll get... No way. Class sizes are huge and getting bigger. Resources are scarce.
posted by k8t at 2:22 PM on August 15, 2012
I dropped out of Reed after two years, because I couldn't face another math course, and what I really wanted to do was CS. Also, depression, probably not unrelated to the complete lack of sunlight. I understand that drugs are a common reason for dropping out, but that wasn't my issue. Reed's distribution requirements forced me to take classes that I wouldn't have otherwise taken. But of those, the only one I cared about was cognitive psychology. Certainly I don't feel that I got much out of the famous Humanities 110 course. Was that mere resentment at being forced to take it (and to attend lectures at some unreasonable time like 9am)? Maybe.
Anyway, it was an error for me, but that's no knock against the school; it's a reflection on my age-17 decision-making process.
posted by novalis_dt at 7:19 PM on August 15, 2012
Anyway, it was an error for me, but that's no knock against the school; it's a reflection on my age-17 decision-making process.
posted by novalis_dt at 7:19 PM on August 15, 2012
Oh, and I should add that the intro CS course (in the math department) I took at Reed (in 1998) continues to be useful in surprising ways -- it covered a slightly different set of material than a traditional CS course, which was perfect for me because I was already familiar with most of the traditional CS 101 stuff.
posted by novalis_dt at 7:28 PM on August 15, 2012
posted by novalis_dt at 7:28 PM on August 15, 2012
I have a very high opinion of Reed, but I'd be extremely wary of the cost. I don't think ANY undergraduate education is worth what the private schools are charging these days (or the public schools, for that matter).
What matters of course is the specific financial aid package a particular student is offered, not the averages, but it's worth noting that the average student debt at Reed is within a few hundred dollars of that at Berkeley (Lewis and Clark is a few thousand higher). Well-funded private schools have high price tags, but also have the ability to offer exceptional financial aid packages. Because of massive cuts in state support, public schools have gotten much more expensive in recent years as those costs have been transferred from the public onto individual students; the decision needs to be made looking at the specific situation, not on assumptions.
posted by Forktine at 5:23 AM on August 16, 2012
What matters of course is the specific financial aid package a particular student is offered, not the averages, but it's worth noting that the average student debt at Reed is within a few hundred dollars of that at Berkeley (Lewis and Clark is a few thousand higher). Well-funded private schools have high price tags, but also have the ability to offer exceptional financial aid packages. Because of massive cuts in state support, public schools have gotten much more expensive in recent years as those costs have been transferred from the public onto individual students; the decision needs to be made looking at the specific situation, not on assumptions.
posted by Forktine at 5:23 AM on August 16, 2012
Ah, one more point. If your daughter is considering any of the dual-degree programs at Reed, contact someone who is responsible for that program in the department and can confirm that the program is still alive.
I came to Reed thinking I was going to do the dual-degree program in Forestry and Environmental Science, where you go to Duke for 2 years after being at Reed for 3. This program is advertised in their materials and is still listed on their website as a real program. At the Biology open house before school started I asked the Bio department head about it and his response was "uhhh, gee? Do we still do that? No one has done that in a decade or so and I don't think we even have the program in place any more. Sorry!"
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:31 AM on August 16, 2012
I came to Reed thinking I was going to do the dual-degree program in Forestry and Environmental Science, where you go to Duke for 2 years after being at Reed for 3. This program is advertised in their materials and is still listed on their website as a real program. At the Biology open house before school started I asked the Bio department head about it and his response was "uhhh, gee? Do we still do that? No one has done that in a decade or so and I don't think we even have the program in place any more. Sorry!"
posted by MonsieurBon at 9:31 AM on August 16, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
As a Reedie (class of 96) I am legally obligated that Lewis and Clarkies are really clean, and really weird.
posted by pickypicky at 9:48 AM on August 14, 2012