How do I fix my issues with women and problems with people in general?
August 9, 2012 9:42 PM Subscribe
How do I fix my issues with women and problems with people in general?
I was raised by both parents even though they are divorced, but some would say my father more. My mother cheated on my father (accuses my father, I believe his story more since he has proof and I don't know just an inner feeling I have). I'm not exactly sure how this plays a role in my life, though I believe it has to do with my hate of a lot of women I meet (not that i dislike all women, I just make quick judgments without meeting them), paranoia generally surrounding them, and inability to commit to a serious relationship. I have no plans to get married, have children, or ever stay with a woman for long. My few experiences with women didn't end very well. I just started hating women even more (although in all cases I broke up with the girl), and it made me only want to use them for sexual pleasure, just one night stands all the time.
My problems with people in general stem a little further. I had a terrible highschool experience and just general social experience (which continues today). Not that I was anti-social, I just didn't get along with certain people and never quite acclimated to particular social groups. I never used to be like this but certain things happened changed me slowly but surely over time. I spend most days indoors besides work, shielding myself from the world. I had a few friends, but I wasn't especially close with any of them. I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes" that I'm not sure who I even am anymore, its been so damn long. I don't know who I am, I've been someone else or what i think people want forever now.
Due to unfortunate situations with some people I have become very anxious in certain social situations. I find it nerve wrecking to go out in public for fear of being judged. I'm massively paranoid about the people around me, I constantly think they are mocking me either in their heads or to their friends. I've let people's small comments rule my life and they've impacted me forever. I constantly fear my house being robbed after it was robbed by teenagers in my teens.
I have been deeply depressed for as long as 8th or 7th grade. Deeply depressed. Its burrowed down so far I can't even express my deep unhappiness.
I have never been to therapy and I think they are useless to me since I wouldn't be myself around them anyway. I want a fix, I've thought about searching for medication for my anxiety and depression but I'm not sure how I even obtain them. What should I do?
I was raised by both parents even though they are divorced, but some would say my father more. My mother cheated on my father (accuses my father, I believe his story more since he has proof and I don't know just an inner feeling I have). I'm not exactly sure how this plays a role in my life, though I believe it has to do with my hate of a lot of women I meet (not that i dislike all women, I just make quick judgments without meeting them), paranoia generally surrounding them, and inability to commit to a serious relationship. I have no plans to get married, have children, or ever stay with a woman for long. My few experiences with women didn't end very well. I just started hating women even more (although in all cases I broke up with the girl), and it made me only want to use them for sexual pleasure, just one night stands all the time.
My problems with people in general stem a little further. I had a terrible highschool experience and just general social experience (which continues today). Not that I was anti-social, I just didn't get along with certain people and never quite acclimated to particular social groups. I never used to be like this but certain things happened changed me slowly but surely over time. I spend most days indoors besides work, shielding myself from the world. I had a few friends, but I wasn't especially close with any of them. I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes" that I'm not sure who I even am anymore, its been so damn long. I don't know who I am, I've been someone else or what i think people want forever now.
Due to unfortunate situations with some people I have become very anxious in certain social situations. I find it nerve wrecking to go out in public for fear of being judged. I'm massively paranoid about the people around me, I constantly think they are mocking me either in their heads or to their friends. I've let people's small comments rule my life and they've impacted me forever. I constantly fear my house being robbed after it was robbed by teenagers in my teens.
I have been deeply depressed for as long as 8th or 7th grade. Deeply depressed. Its burrowed down so far I can't even express my deep unhappiness.
I have never been to therapy and I think they are useless to me since I wouldn't be myself around them anyway. I want a fix, I've thought about searching for medication for my anxiety and depression but I'm not sure how I even obtain them. What should I do?
Dude, you definitely need to see a therapist. One of the first things you say in the session is that you're worried you're not going to be yourself around them. Print out this question and hand it to them if you have to. You may have to try multiple therapists before you find one that works for you.
To get medication you need a psychiatrist. Any responsible psychiatrist will want you to undergo therapy in tandem to the medication. Medication is not a quick-fix. It is not going to fix bad thought patterns or make OK around women or get you friends. It just makes it easier to work on changing yourself to enable those things to happen.
I cannot overemphasize the importance of you getting therapy. You sound sad, lonely, and angry. These are not good ways to live your life. It is possible to establish meaningful relationships with other people. It's possible to recover from the things you've undergone. But you have to work for it.
posted by Anonymous at 9:49 PM on August 9, 2012
To get medication you need a psychiatrist. Any responsible psychiatrist will want you to undergo therapy in tandem to the medication. Medication is not a quick-fix. It is not going to fix bad thought patterns or make OK around women or get you friends. It just makes it easier to work on changing yourself to enable those things to happen.
I cannot overemphasize the importance of you getting therapy. You sound sad, lonely, and angry. These are not good ways to live your life. It is possible to establish meaningful relationships with other people. It's possible to recover from the things you've undergone. But you have to work for it.
posted by Anonymous at 9:49 PM on August 9, 2012
Response by poster: My anxiety and fear of judgment would probably prevent me from speaking the full truth. Also, i always wondered how therapists could be better than me. therapists are only human, don't they also have lives, sadness, depression, mental issues, maybe they cheat on their spouse? What makes them more qualified than someone else?
posted by johnx at 9:51 PM on August 9, 2012
posted by johnx at 9:51 PM on August 9, 2012
What makes them more qualified than someone else?
Therapists are trained to listen and respond to other people's problems in helpful ways. They know and can use and/or teach a variety of techniques for processing emotions, untangling patterns of behavior, and/or sorting through complicating interpersonal interactions. Therapists aren't better than anyone, necessarily - the doctor often makes a terrible patient - but they are in a position to be a useful third party perspective and source of tools for their patients.
My mom's a therapist, and she's far from perfect in her own life - she has complicated relationships, she can not seem to get along with her sister-in-law, she has anxiety issues - but she is fucking amazing to talk things through with because that's what she got her Master's degree in. It's not entirely quantifiable - there's just a quality of listening that she can hit that not everyone can, and it makes her really comfortable to talk to.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:56 PM on August 9, 2012 [23 favorites]
Therapists are trained to listen and respond to other people's problems in helpful ways. They know and can use and/or teach a variety of techniques for processing emotions, untangling patterns of behavior, and/or sorting through complicating interpersonal interactions. Therapists aren't better than anyone, necessarily - the doctor often makes a terrible patient - but they are in a position to be a useful third party perspective and source of tools for their patients.
My mom's a therapist, and she's far from perfect in her own life - she has complicated relationships, she can not seem to get along with her sister-in-law, she has anxiety issues - but she is fucking amazing to talk things through with because that's what she got her Master's degree in. It's not entirely quantifiable - there's just a quality of listening that she can hit that not everyone can, and it makes her really comfortable to talk to.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:56 PM on August 9, 2012 [23 favorites]
Therapists are not people who are better than you. They are people who are trained to help resolve the problems you are facing, in the same way auto mechanics are trained to help resolve problems you have with your car, or veterinarians are trained to help resolve problems you have with your pets.
You are having some very specific social anxieties and issues that are not unique to you - other people have had these issues, and the medical/psychiatric/psychological professions have studied these issues over time with various treatment approaches and have established protocols that can work to help people resolve these issues and get healthier, much in the same way that people with diabetes or heart disease can follow various treatment approaches and get healthier.
Professionals in these situations are used to working with people who are deeply suspicious about the therapist's ability to be useful - it's one of the symptoms of the anxiety and depression you have. A good therapist can work with you as you transition from not speaking the full truth or being yourself to figuring out how to be more honest, open and communicative. Good luck.
posted by judith at 9:58 PM on August 9, 2012 [10 favorites]
You are having some very specific social anxieties and issues that are not unique to you - other people have had these issues, and the medical/psychiatric/psychological professions have studied these issues over time with various treatment approaches and have established protocols that can work to help people resolve these issues and get healthier, much in the same way that people with diabetes or heart disease can follow various treatment approaches and get healthier.
Professionals in these situations are used to working with people who are deeply suspicious about the therapist's ability to be useful - it's one of the symptoms of the anxiety and depression you have. A good therapist can work with you as you transition from not speaking the full truth or being yourself to figuring out how to be more honest, open and communicative. Good luck.
posted by judith at 9:58 PM on August 9, 2012 [10 favorites]
My anxiety and fear of judgment would probably prevent me from speaking the full truth.
This is normal. On the show "In treatment" the main character was talking about finding a new therapist for himself and commented that he "didn't want to spend a year lying to someone." It's a process of opening up. I went to therapy for a year or so and I was never quite completely open and everything with her. But I got better as I went.
What makes them more qualified than someone else?
Because it's their job. They're good at helping others; it doesn't mean they are saints or have no problems themselves. But the point is they can help you.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:00 PM on August 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is normal. On the show "In treatment" the main character was talking about finding a new therapist for himself and commented that he "didn't want to spend a year lying to someone." It's a process of opening up. I went to therapy for a year or so and I was never quite completely open and everything with her. But I got better as I went.
What makes them more qualified than someone else?
Because it's their job. They're good at helping others; it doesn't mean they are saints or have no problems themselves. But the point is they can help you.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:00 PM on August 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Therapists aren't necessarily better than you, but they do have training and experience with this sort of problem. If you go to someone for more than a couple sessions, I think you'll find that some of your barriers will come down. That said, the people above are right: if you go, go with the intent to say everything. Yes, it's terrifying, and yes, you'll hold back initially. But if that is your goal, you'll reveal more of your issues.
posted by tau_ceti at 10:00 PM on August 9, 2012
posted by tau_ceti at 10:00 PM on August 9, 2012
the people who help you aren't better than you. The big thing they bring to the table is an ability to listen and then give you reliable, unbiased feedback about your view of the world. The thing is, for a therapist, friend or ANYONE to help you you have to be willing to be 1. honest 2. self aware 3. readily admit that the one thing all your problems have in common is you 4. to fix your problems you have to fix yourself. The therapist (or whoever) does not fix you. The most they can do is help you figure out the map you have to fix yourself. In fact when I have problem that i need help with, whether personal, professional or just a how to do something, I look for somebody who has already done it. A person who has already overcome those issues is the IDEAL person to help you. We all have our problems. Doesn't mean because someone isn't perfect they don't have experience or insight you lack.
Chances are a lot of us on here had a terrible high school experience (my worst was middle but high school wasn't a picnic), have family issues (i was blessed with loving parents, but even that has conflicts-and a father who died too early) or extremely introverted (that is a struggle I have daily-and a nagging feeling of not being good enough). Everyone has a hill to climb, and most of us need help to get started and get up the steep parts. Therapists do this, are trained to do this.
posted by bartonlong at 10:01 PM on August 9, 2012
Chances are a lot of us on here had a terrible high school experience (my worst was middle but high school wasn't a picnic), have family issues (i was blessed with loving parents, but even that has conflicts-and a father who died too early) or extremely introverted (that is a struggle I have daily-and a nagging feeling of not being good enough). Everyone has a hill to climb, and most of us need help to get started and get up the steep parts. Therapists do this, are trained to do this.
posted by bartonlong at 10:01 PM on August 9, 2012
Therapists aren't better people, they're just trained to listen and help you navigate through the complex network of self-doubt, anxieties, and negative thought-patterns that make up your brain. They're also trained to deal with the trust issues. A good therapist will help you feel comfortable and willing to open up about your problems. A really good therapist will open up a safe place for you to explore the dark, scary parts of yourself that you have been unwilling to go before. I have been to many therapists and the best one had the ability to cut through my bullshit and walk me down paths that I'd been too afraid to go down before.
posted by Anonymous at 10:14 PM on August 9, 2012
posted by Anonymous at 10:14 PM on August 9, 2012
See a therapist. They do not have to be bettert than you. They are like a coach of a sport. Great coaches don't have to be great athletes or even former great athletes. Therapists have human imprecations, but what they are good at is listening, relating, communicating and giving insight.
I read your post and I do not think I have ever read a bigger cry for help than this post. Quite frankly, it sounds to me that without getting help, seeing a therapist or finding a way to address your issues, you are heading toward a path of some sort of explosion which I hope and pray is not taken out physically on others especially women.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:17 PM on August 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
I read your post and I do not think I have ever read a bigger cry for help than this post. Quite frankly, it sounds to me that without getting help, seeing a therapist or finding a way to address your issues, you are heading toward a path of some sort of explosion which I hope and pray is not taken out physically on others especially women.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:17 PM on August 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
When I was in undergrad, therapy sessions were a mandatory part of my psychology curriculum, and the curriculum itself covered a number of therapeutic approaches as well as abnormal psychology, child development, positive and personal psychology, scientific background stuff like designing studies and conducting research, social psychology, cognition, sensation and perception, and various electives I didn't get to because I dropped out to pursue other interests. That's not counting the Master's or Ph.D. level coursework I would've undertaken.
If you had a broken leg, would you insist on splinting and setting it yourself because the ER doctor might be cheating on his wife or because he might think he's better than you?
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:18 PM on August 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
If you had a broken leg, would you insist on splinting and setting it yourself because the ER doctor might be cheating on his wife or because he might think he's better than you?
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:18 PM on August 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
I had a terrible highschool experience and just general social experience (which continues today).
Most people go through this - most people don't fit in - most people feel like crap at school - you're in good company.
I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes"
Everyone has various versions of themselves - you can't be yourself, one specific self, in all situations, it's just not possible. Each situation is a different context, so no one is, realistically speaking, themselves all of the time.
I have been deeply depressed for as long as 8th or 7th grade. Deeply depressed. Its burrowed down so far I can't even express my deep unhappiness.
It would be a very good idea to talk to your doctor about this.
My anxiety and fear of judgment would probably prevent me from speaking the full truth.
When does anyone ever speak the full truth - really? Some is better than none, right?
Also, i always wondered how therapists could be better than me. therapists are only human, don't they also have lives, sadness, depression, mental issues, maybe they cheat on their spouse?
They're exactly like you except they're outside of your head. This is their purpose - to provide an external sounding-board to your life.
What makes them more qualified than someone else?
Qualifications.
My question to you, as a complete lay person - is to ask what does holding on to the pain associated with your mother's behaviour do for you other than to create more pain for you?
Consider that your fear of a woman hurting you emotionally, whilst difficult, is not something that will kill you, so your feelings regarding women are disproportionate to the situation. What does holding onto that fear get for you - what benefits do you receive from it? Do you want to continue to go through life hurting or do you want to actually enjoy some of it?
posted by heyjude at 10:18 PM on August 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
Most people go through this - most people don't fit in - most people feel like crap at school - you're in good company.
I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes"
Everyone has various versions of themselves - you can't be yourself, one specific self, in all situations, it's just not possible. Each situation is a different context, so no one is, realistically speaking, themselves all of the time.
I have been deeply depressed for as long as 8th or 7th grade. Deeply depressed. Its burrowed down so far I can't even express my deep unhappiness.
It would be a very good idea to talk to your doctor about this.
My anxiety and fear of judgment would probably prevent me from speaking the full truth.
When does anyone ever speak the full truth - really? Some is better than none, right?
Also, i always wondered how therapists could be better than me. therapists are only human, don't they also have lives, sadness, depression, mental issues, maybe they cheat on their spouse?
They're exactly like you except they're outside of your head. This is their purpose - to provide an external sounding-board to your life.
What makes them more qualified than someone else?
Qualifications.
My question to you, as a complete lay person - is to ask what does holding on to the pain associated with your mother's behaviour do for you other than to create more pain for you?
Consider that your fear of a woman hurting you emotionally, whilst difficult, is not something that will kill you, so your feelings regarding women are disproportionate to the situation. What does holding onto that fear get for you - what benefits do you receive from it? Do you want to continue to go through life hurting or do you want to actually enjoy some of it?
posted by heyjude at 10:18 PM on August 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes" that I'm not sure who I even am anymore, its been so damn long. I don't know who I am, I've been someone else or what i think people want forever now.
You talk about yourself as existing in multiple... It probably feels like you've been switching masks for so long now that your own face feels uncomfortable, even though you know it's the face you want to wear with confidence and ease. Think of each one of those masks as a survival strategy -- a face you needed to present at a time when the consequences of feeling your genuine emotions would have been too overwhelming for you to risk openly experiencing. For example, when you first suspected (at who knows what age, young children are amazingly perceptive) that your mother was an unfaithful party in the marriage. Until it was safe for you to know for sure, your true feelings had to be masked, as you were a child dependent on both your parents for guidance and support.
Consider this: each mask corresponds to an inaccurate belief about who you really are; an inaccurate belief that it had to construct in order to hide a truth (your truth, about the situation in which it first arose). Ultimately each mask corresponds to a self-defeating belief -- self-defeating, because the belief is designed to fit the mask; it is not a belief accurate to you. Worse yet, these beliefs tie up resources (your brain only has so much) because they are re-routing resources to maintaining a mask that instead should be going to the expression of your genuine self.
Consider trying some CBT therapy (you can try it alone with this popular recommendation on the green, or with a therapist). Try some mindfulness approaches. Try channeling in on yourself, and listen for when one of those masks tries to assert itself, using the belief that justifies its existence. Use CBT to determine whether the belief is accurate, or needs to be re-written. As faulty beliefs are replaced with more accurate, you-appropriate ones, more energy will free up because those new beliefs will reflect to the masks that they are no longer needed. The better you get at affirming who you really are, and that it's the genuine you that can competently handle your life challenges, the more those masks will start to lose shape and resign to the true you being in charge.
I have no plans to get married, have children, or ever stay with a woman for long.
FWIW, I can really relate to this. And really, my adult experiences in relationships with men have been pretty average --just disappointing in how I did get hurt in the process of them not working out. But they were enough to reinforce a lot of faulty beliefs I didn't realize I was carrying inside until I chose to take my emotional well-being more seriously this past year.
If you do approach a therapist, keep in mind that YOU will always be the expert on you. The key thing that makes them more qualified than someone else is that they should be well educated in the strategies that will help you get better at being you much more quickly than you are likely to on your own, if you do the work. You don't have to start out being yourself, especially if (ironically) that's what works for you. Best of luck!
posted by human ecologist at 11:35 PM on August 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
You talk about yourself as existing in multiple... It probably feels like you've been switching masks for so long now that your own face feels uncomfortable, even though you know it's the face you want to wear with confidence and ease. Think of each one of those masks as a survival strategy -- a face you needed to present at a time when the consequences of feeling your genuine emotions would have been too overwhelming for you to risk openly experiencing. For example, when you first suspected (at who knows what age, young children are amazingly perceptive) that your mother was an unfaithful party in the marriage. Until it was safe for you to know for sure, your true feelings had to be masked, as you were a child dependent on both your parents for guidance and support.
Consider this: each mask corresponds to an inaccurate belief about who you really are; an inaccurate belief that it had to construct in order to hide a truth (your truth, about the situation in which it first arose). Ultimately each mask corresponds to a self-defeating belief -- self-defeating, because the belief is designed to fit the mask; it is not a belief accurate to you. Worse yet, these beliefs tie up resources (your brain only has so much) because they are re-routing resources to maintaining a mask that instead should be going to the expression of your genuine self.
Consider trying some CBT therapy (you can try it alone with this popular recommendation on the green, or with a therapist). Try some mindfulness approaches. Try channeling in on yourself, and listen for when one of those masks tries to assert itself, using the belief that justifies its existence. Use CBT to determine whether the belief is accurate, or needs to be re-written. As faulty beliefs are replaced with more accurate, you-appropriate ones, more energy will free up because those new beliefs will reflect to the masks that they are no longer needed. The better you get at affirming who you really are, and that it's the genuine you that can competently handle your life challenges, the more those masks will start to lose shape and resign to the true you being in charge.
I have no plans to get married, have children, or ever stay with a woman for long.
FWIW, I can really relate to this. And really, my adult experiences in relationships with men have been pretty average --just disappointing in how I did get hurt in the process of them not working out. But they were enough to reinforce a lot of faulty beliefs I didn't realize I was carrying inside until I chose to take my emotional well-being more seriously this past year.
If you do approach a therapist, keep in mind that YOU will always be the expert on you. The key thing that makes them more qualified than someone else is that they should be well educated in the strategies that will help you get better at being you much more quickly than you are likely to on your own, if you do the work. You don't have to start out being yourself, especially if (ironically) that's what works for you. Best of luck!
posted by human ecologist at 11:35 PM on August 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Recognize that your mind is playing a trick on you; it is fooling you into thinking that everything is hopeless and that nobody can help you.
This is a classic symptom of depression. Depression is a medical illness, and should be treated as such.
I love everything in lalex's post, but this especially hit the bullseye. There is a whole book out there about this, called How I Stayed Alive While My Brain Was Trying to Kill Me.
Also, your mother might well be the biggest shit in the whole world, a terrible person worthy of the pantheon of evil alongside Hitler and Pol Pot and you name it.
She is one of 3.5 billion women currently alive. Hating all women because of her makes exactly as much sense as hating all men because of Hitler.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:46 AM on August 10, 2012 [13 favorites]
This is a classic symptom of depression. Depression is a medical illness, and should be treated as such.
I love everything in lalex's post, but this especially hit the bullseye. There is a whole book out there about this, called How I Stayed Alive While My Brain Was Trying to Kill Me.
Also, your mother might well be the biggest shit in the whole world, a terrible person worthy of the pantheon of evil alongside Hitler and Pol Pot and you name it.
She is one of 3.5 billion women currently alive. Hating all women because of her makes exactly as much sense as hating all men because of Hitler.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:46 AM on August 10, 2012 [13 favorites]
Just as we, who are trying to help you, do not consider ourselves better than you, a therapist who has extensive training will not consider themselves better. Most of us here have some issues, but we are able to share our experiences to help you. A therapist not only has their own life experiences and education, but experience helping people who were in your shoes.
The whole women thing might be a form of self-sabotage. Depression can do weird things like that. Chances are, if you're here writing about it, you're not happy about it. The whole one night stand thing is fine is you're truly happy with it and the women you're involved with know your intent. But it seems to me like deep down, you realize that this is less of a "what i want to do" and more "what I've always done and it's hard to change".
Therapy and medications will help. I am currently in CBT for a phobia and it's giving me my life back. Previously, it did nothing. You need to not just find a therapist, but the right therapist. Someone with expertise in depression (most are), relationships, and family issues would be your best bet. Someone with "expertise" all over the board--that's a red flag that they do a little bit of everything, but may not be as skilled in the personal/relationship area as you need.
Here's a link to search for places that do CBT (not just for phobias!)
http://www.abct.org/Members/?m=FindTherapist&fa=FT_Form&nolm=1
Take care!
posted by andariel at 3:41 AM on August 10, 2012
The whole women thing might be a form of self-sabotage. Depression can do weird things like that. Chances are, if you're here writing about it, you're not happy about it. The whole one night stand thing is fine is you're truly happy with it and the women you're involved with know your intent. But it seems to me like deep down, you realize that this is less of a "what i want to do" and more "what I've always done and it's hard to change".
Therapy and medications will help. I am currently in CBT for a phobia and it's giving me my life back. Previously, it did nothing. You need to not just find a therapist, but the right therapist. Someone with expertise in depression (most are), relationships, and family issues would be your best bet. Someone with "expertise" all over the board--that's a red flag that they do a little bit of everything, but may not be as skilled in the personal/relationship area as you need.
Here's a link to search for places that do CBT (not just for phobias!)
http://www.abct.org/Members/?m=FindTherapist&fa=FT_Form&nolm=1
Take care!
posted by andariel at 3:41 AM on August 10, 2012
How do I fix my issues with women and problems with people in general?
though I believe it has to do with my hate of a lot of women I meet (not that i dislike all women, I just make quick judgments without meeting them),
You are a young male who doesn't understand what he has to offer the world. That is why you fear (hate) women. We challenge you and you don't like that. You want what we can provide (pussy, cuddles, cachet) but you fear the engagement it takes to get those things. How can you judge women when you haven't met every one?
Life is a package deal, buddy. You want love whole and wholesome or you don't want it at all. You can't pick and choose the easy fruit without paying the price (loneliness, loathsomeness etc).
Also, i always wondered how therapists could be better than me.
They are better (they are trained) at helping you find the good in people, including you. And once you find it in yourself you will see it in others, including women.
posted by Kerasia at 3:47 AM on August 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
though I believe it has to do with my hate of a lot of women I meet (not that i dislike all women, I just make quick judgments without meeting them),
You are a young male who doesn't understand what he has to offer the world. That is why you fear (hate) women. We challenge you and you don't like that. You want what we can provide (pussy, cuddles, cachet) but you fear the engagement it takes to get those things. How can you judge women when you haven't met every one?
Life is a package deal, buddy. You want love whole and wholesome or you don't want it at all. You can't pick and choose the easy fruit without paying the price (loneliness, loathsomeness etc).
Also, i always wondered how therapists could be better than me.
They are better (they are trained) at helping you find the good in people, including you. And once you find it in yourself you will see it in others, including women.
posted by Kerasia at 3:47 AM on August 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
Therapists definitely are human; they have their own issues, as well. But what they have learned is, despite their own issues, they care for human nature so much and are able and willing to reach out to other individuals with the best learning and advice they have to offer. They are amazing people, a lot of them. (Some are just weird and not helpful. Please know this.)
The way we are raised and the experiences we go through in our childhood and teenage years make us who we are as adults. If we can't figure out what we went through and how it's affected us and truly work through (helpful with a therapist) those issues, we often get stuck in them. Sounds like you are stuck and want a way out. Please find an amazing counselor -- I went to one for years and love her with everything that I am because she helped me discover things, question my wrong thinking, and become the woman I am today.
I wish the same for you. (Except, don't become a woman. ;))
All my best to you.
posted by Falwless at 5:14 AM on August 10, 2012
The way we are raised and the experiences we go through in our childhood and teenage years make us who we are as adults. If we can't figure out what we went through and how it's affected us and truly work through (helpful with a therapist) those issues, we often get stuck in them. Sounds like you are stuck and want a way out. Please find an amazing counselor -- I went to one for years and love her with everything that I am because she helped me discover things, question my wrong thinking, and become the woman I am today.
I wish the same for you. (Except, don't become a woman. ;))
All my best to you.
posted by Falwless at 5:14 AM on August 10, 2012
Your concerns are very, very serious. It's terrifying to read someone's post that says, plain as day: i hate women. Please get help before you hurt someone and/or end up in serious trouble. Print this question out and bring it along.
posted by murfed13 at 6:59 AM on August 10, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by murfed13 at 6:59 AM on August 10, 2012 [3 favorites]
That you are able to admit the issue, that you see it as a bad thing, that you want to change it - this is the first step, and it was a big one.
The only advice I can give you is to try to remember that "women" aren't a group of things that are all the same. When you meet a female, immediately forget that she's a "woman". That label is like a huge sticker on the screen of your TV: you can't see what's actually on the screen because all you can see is that huge sticker filled with negative "woman" qualities.
Treat each person you meet as an individual. Remind yourself to not judge before you know more about them. Look and listen to them. REALLY listen to them. Remember that they are a new experience, that you can't make assumptions about them based on their gender any more than you could make assumptions about someone based on their hair color.
I wish you well. It's very brave to admit that this is a problem for you, and you're already working towards being a better person just by doing that.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:11 AM on August 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
The only advice I can give you is to try to remember that "women" aren't a group of things that are all the same. When you meet a female, immediately forget that she's a "woman". That label is like a huge sticker on the screen of your TV: you can't see what's actually on the screen because all you can see is that huge sticker filled with negative "woman" qualities.
Treat each person you meet as an individual. Remind yourself to not judge before you know more about them. Look and listen to them. REALLY listen to them. Remember that they are a new experience, that you can't make assumptions about them based on their gender any more than you could make assumptions about someone based on their hair color.
I wish you well. It's very brave to admit that this is a problem for you, and you're already working towards being a better person just by doing that.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:11 AM on August 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm massively paranoid about the people around me, I constantly think they are mocking me either in their heads or to their friends.
This has also been me for almost all of my life, based also on real traumatic events with people when I was young. The depression too - I first tried to kill myself when I was seven years old. Brother, I know this pain.
Antidepressants, specifically Effexor, have been an incredible life-changer with respect to my social anxiety. Until a couple of years ago, I couldn't even go out on my own balcony because people could see me, and would judge me, and I'd be reminded of what a useless thing I was. The Effexor somehow cleared the fog in my brain that was making me believe in the judging and the uselessness. I could tell myself that no one was doing that, and even if someone did look at me and have a negative thought, IT DOESN'T MATTER. The only opinion that matters on the subject of you is YOURS. Learn to value yourself for the awesome things that you have in you (and you do), and other people's opinions will matter much less.
What also helped me a lot was putting on a "public me" when I left the house. I made up a person who was confident, who could stride, who could go to the store and buy some milk like it was the easiest thing in the world (and I know how it can be the hardest thing in the world when you have social anxiety). At first this persona was a flimsy shell, but enough to help me do small necessary public things. Now, after many years, I *am* that person. "Fake it 'til you make it" is very, very true when it comes to altering personal traits you want to fix.
How I got on Effexor: like you, I have a strong aversion to therapists (more childhood trauma). I went to the local clinic, spoke to a GP and said I wanted to go on antidepressants, that I was having suicidal thoughts and wanted to begin immediately. We worked out that he would give me an initial short-term prescription plus a referral to emergency mental health services, so I could start taking the medication and then find a therapist to be under their supervision and they would continue the prescription as part of the treatment. And this may sound weird, coming from someone who also mistrusts therapists, but: DO IT. Especially because you have fear of other human beings, a very important thing for you will be to make a connection to another human being who is SAFE. A therapist can be trusted to not hurt you. A therapist cannot betray you. A therapist is a real human being who wants to help you.
I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes" that I'm not sure who I even am anymore, its been so damn long. I don't know who I am, I've been someone else or what i think people want forever now.
Also me. I've so, so, SO been you for so, so long. When I was very young I thought of myself as a mirror, an empty shell that reflected everyone back at themselves while containing nothing. That stayed with me into my twenties.
My turning point on that came when I was running a million small errands that were totally not my job, simply to people-please. And someone I trusted and respected looked at me, cocked their head and said, "You know, you don't HAVE to be everyone's dog."
And that hurt. But it was TRUE.
Reminding myself that I was NOT a dog, that I was MYSELF, helped me to take the first small steps into making my own decisions about my own choices, learning about who was there in me and what they were like.
As I've said, your story resonates very deeply with me and reads like a retelling of my own life. Please feel 100% free to memail me if you ever have a question, or just want to talk... I made it out. You can too.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:36 AM on August 10, 2012
This has also been me for almost all of my life, based also on real traumatic events with people when I was young. The depression too - I first tried to kill myself when I was seven years old. Brother, I know this pain.
Antidepressants, specifically Effexor, have been an incredible life-changer with respect to my social anxiety. Until a couple of years ago, I couldn't even go out on my own balcony because people could see me, and would judge me, and I'd be reminded of what a useless thing I was. The Effexor somehow cleared the fog in my brain that was making me believe in the judging and the uselessness. I could tell myself that no one was doing that, and even if someone did look at me and have a negative thought, IT DOESN'T MATTER. The only opinion that matters on the subject of you is YOURS. Learn to value yourself for the awesome things that you have in you (and you do), and other people's opinions will matter much less.
What also helped me a lot was putting on a "public me" when I left the house. I made up a person who was confident, who could stride, who could go to the store and buy some milk like it was the easiest thing in the world (and I know how it can be the hardest thing in the world when you have social anxiety). At first this persona was a flimsy shell, but enough to help me do small necessary public things. Now, after many years, I *am* that person. "Fake it 'til you make it" is very, very true when it comes to altering personal traits you want to fix.
How I got on Effexor: like you, I have a strong aversion to therapists (more childhood trauma). I went to the local clinic, spoke to a GP and said I wanted to go on antidepressants, that I was having suicidal thoughts and wanted to begin immediately. We worked out that he would give me an initial short-term prescription plus a referral to emergency mental health services, so I could start taking the medication and then find a therapist to be under their supervision and they would continue the prescription as part of the treatment. And this may sound weird, coming from someone who also mistrusts therapists, but: DO IT. Especially because you have fear of other human beings, a very important thing for you will be to make a connection to another human being who is SAFE. A therapist can be trusted to not hurt you. A therapist cannot betray you. A therapist is a real human being who wants to help you.
I'm never myself around anyone, in fact I'm become so wrapped up in the chasm of various "mes" that I'm not sure who I even am anymore, its been so damn long. I don't know who I am, I've been someone else or what i think people want forever now.
Also me. I've so, so, SO been you for so, so long. When I was very young I thought of myself as a mirror, an empty shell that reflected everyone back at themselves while containing nothing. That stayed with me into my twenties.
My turning point on that came when I was running a million small errands that were totally not my job, simply to people-please. And someone I trusted and respected looked at me, cocked their head and said, "You know, you don't HAVE to be everyone's dog."
And that hurt. But it was TRUE.
Reminding myself that I was NOT a dog, that I was MYSELF, helped me to take the first small steps into making my own decisions about my own choices, learning about who was there in me and what they were like.
As I've said, your story resonates very deeply with me and reads like a retelling of my own life. Please feel 100% free to memail me if you ever have a question, or just want to talk... I made it out. You can too.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:36 AM on August 10, 2012
Dude, I feel for you. I see myself in you a lot. Nthing the therapy and medication suggestions. We don't know what you need, but a professional will. In my experience, some people benefit more from therapy, some benefit more from medication, some benefit more from better self-care, and some benefit more from strengthening their social network. For me, working on all of the above is a great integrated approach.
Something that has really helped me with the emotional fallout from having an abusive mother and an unavailable father is reminding myself that my parents are my parents and other people are other people. In other words, it is neither fair nor useful to project my feelings about my parents onto other people in my life. I know this is much easier said than done, but it's the only way that I can attempt to have healthy relationships in my life.
Consider that your fear of a woman hurting you emotionally, whilst difficult, is not something that will kill you, so your feelings regarding women are disproportionate to the situation. What does holding onto that fear get for you - what benefits do you receive from it? Do you want to continue to go through life hurting or do you want to actually enjoy some of it?
This. Right. Here. I have a dear friend who has this exact issue. I would love to drive this same friend to therapy (if he were willing) so he can get some help. What is interesting about what heyjude is talking about here is that there IS an emotional payoff for you to maintain the status quo of your behavior. Hating (or more accurately, fearing) the possibility of becoming close to a woman in your life serves a dual purpose. Not only does this attitude sabotage your potential relationships before they have a chance to develop into nurturing partnerships, but you never have to take responsibility for the trajectory of your life.
So the question remains, what do you truly want for yourself? If the answer is "I don't want to live like this anymore", then the advice already given as far as therapy, medication, etc. is a great place to start. If you don't know what you want, maybe more self-reflection would be helpful.
FWIW, I didn't start to move forward from the shit of the past in my life until the pain of staying the same was greater than the pain of trying to change. Good luck to you. You can do this.
posted by strelitzia at 9:34 AM on August 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
Something that has really helped me with the emotional fallout from having an abusive mother and an unavailable father is reminding myself that my parents are my parents and other people are other people. In other words, it is neither fair nor useful to project my feelings about my parents onto other people in my life. I know this is much easier said than done, but it's the only way that I can attempt to have healthy relationships in my life.
Consider that your fear of a woman hurting you emotionally, whilst difficult, is not something that will kill you, so your feelings regarding women are disproportionate to the situation. What does holding onto that fear get for you - what benefits do you receive from it? Do you want to continue to go through life hurting or do you want to actually enjoy some of it?
This. Right. Here. I have a dear friend who has this exact issue. I would love to drive this same friend to therapy (if he were willing) so he can get some help. What is interesting about what heyjude is talking about here is that there IS an emotional payoff for you to maintain the status quo of your behavior. Hating (or more accurately, fearing) the possibility of becoming close to a woman in your life serves a dual purpose. Not only does this attitude sabotage your potential relationships before they have a chance to develop into nurturing partnerships, but you never have to take responsibility for the trajectory of your life.
So the question remains, what do you truly want for yourself? If the answer is "I don't want to live like this anymore", then the advice already given as far as therapy, medication, etc. is a great place to start. If you don't know what you want, maybe more self-reflection would be helpful.
FWIW, I didn't start to move forward from the shit of the past in my life until the pain of staying the same was greater than the pain of trying to change. Good luck to you. You can do this.
posted by strelitzia at 9:34 AM on August 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hate stems from fear, and fear comes from ignorance. You hate women because you don't understand women. This has to be a part of you Othering (wiki article) them/us. We're all human, if you've separated half the world's population into a category that allows you to hate them based solely on reproductive organs, there is a ton of cognitive dissonance and informational manipulation happening on your part. While it doesn't sound like you really care for men either, you don't state an actual hate for all humanity.
I know you want a quick fix, but you're in such a deep and slippery pit that I would never expect one person to be able to get themselves out without some help. You need to separate your views of your parents and their relationship to both each other and to you from all the rest of it, figure out where your hate is originating from, find a way to accept women as part of humanity and stop Othering them/us (and figure out why you starting doing that in the first place), and you may need to take medication to overcome your depression. And that's only the basics.
It's not a journey anyone would expect you to manage alone. A therapist isn't someone who's better then you, or has a perfect and spotless life. They are someone who spent years studying the tools that you will need to overcome this, and they are there to help you figure out exactly which tools you need and how to use them. I strongly urge you to start asking (maybe even on metafilter) about finding the right therapist for you and the different styles of therapy that might be suitable.
posted by Dynex at 10:29 AM on August 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
I know you want a quick fix, but you're in such a deep and slippery pit that I would never expect one person to be able to get themselves out without some help. You need to separate your views of your parents and their relationship to both each other and to you from all the rest of it, figure out where your hate is originating from, find a way to accept women as part of humanity and stop Othering them/us (and figure out why you starting doing that in the first place), and you may need to take medication to overcome your depression. And that's only the basics.
It's not a journey anyone would expect you to manage alone. A therapist isn't someone who's better then you, or has a perfect and spotless life. They are someone who spent years studying the tools that you will need to overcome this, and they are there to help you figure out exactly which tools you need and how to use them. I strongly urge you to start asking (maybe even on metafilter) about finding the right therapist for you and the different styles of therapy that might be suitable.
posted by Dynex at 10:29 AM on August 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
These are all things that will take months, if not years to overcome. Doing it alone may not really work too well, you need to see a therapist. He or she is like your coach, you do the work, but they guide you.
Good luck.
posted by eq21 at 12:40 PM on August 10, 2012
Good luck.
posted by eq21 at 12:40 PM on August 10, 2012
I am sorry to read that you a in so much pain, and grateful that you are able to reach out to us. Recognizing that you have a problem you want to fix is a necessary precondition to improving your life.
You are probably going to have to learn to like and trust yourself and other people more before you can "fix" your problem with women. But that's okay because these are things you can learn to do.
I have my own struggles with depression that I've been actively trying to manage for 15 years. My first therapists weren't right for me, but I did eventually find one who is a great resource. Initially my therapist helped me to identify what those masks were that I was using to hide the true "me", and then to tease apart and understand the big black cloud that would come over me. Like GI Joe said, knowing was absolutely half the battle ... To being able to reduce the size and scariness of that cloud.
CBT (described above) has also been a useful tool for me and many others. It helps short circuit those internal diatribes and the sense that everyone is making fun of, or judging you.
Yes, therapists are also imperfect and human, but they are able by aptitude and training to help people learn from other human experience how to be happier. Humans have been able to do all the amazing things we have because we're good at working together, and learning and teaching each other. It's the equivalent of Einstein learning from Newton and all the scientists who worked between them. Einstein needed that earlier research and thinking to be able to develop his theory. Similarly, you need the specialist knowledge of Medical and Psychological researchers to get better too.
Best of luck to you, I hope you'll continue to reach out to people in this thread and in RL who are offering to help you.
posted by Heart_on_Sleeve at 7:43 AM on August 11, 2012
You are probably going to have to learn to like and trust yourself and other people more before you can "fix" your problem with women. But that's okay because these are things you can learn to do.
I have my own struggles with depression that I've been actively trying to manage for 15 years. My first therapists weren't right for me, but I did eventually find one who is a great resource. Initially my therapist helped me to identify what those masks were that I was using to hide the true "me", and then to tease apart and understand the big black cloud that would come over me. Like GI Joe said, knowing was absolutely half the battle ... To being able to reduce the size and scariness of that cloud.
CBT (described above) has also been a useful tool for me and many others. It helps short circuit those internal diatribes and the sense that everyone is making fun of, or judging you.
Yes, therapists are also imperfect and human, but they are able by aptitude and training to help people learn from other human experience how to be happier. Humans have been able to do all the amazing things we have because we're good at working together, and learning and teaching each other. It's the equivalent of Einstein learning from Newton and all the scientists who worked between them. Einstein needed that earlier research and thinking to be able to develop his theory. Similarly, you need the specialist knowledge of Medical and Psychological researchers to get better too.
Best of luck to you, I hope you'll continue to reach out to people in this thread and in RL who are offering to help you.
posted by Heart_on_Sleeve at 7:43 AM on August 11, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Seriously consider therapy, because frankly, there is no magic pill that will fix all your issues, only you can do that (but with help!).
posted by Shouraku at 9:46 PM on August 9, 2012 [1 favorite]