Creationism Museum Vaccination
July 17, 2012 8:44 AM Subscribe
Prebuttal materials for smart tweens/teens going to the Answers in Genesis museum?
This summer I'm taking a road trip with an 11 year old and a 13 year old. Both quite good at critical thinking and science stuff, though one doesn't have much biology/evolution. That one knows a fair amount of geology, though. All atheists.
I was looking for roadside attractions and noticed that the creationism museum was within a few miles so I thought we'd hit it for a laugh. Looking at photos before the trip, I'm beginning to realize we can do much more than laugh.
Obviously most of the stuff there is going to be unbelievably dumb...when you know the facts. I can probably rebut most of what they see (having learned a bunch of these lies in elementary school and learned the real facts later) but could get a little tired doing so. It'd also be nice to innoculate them a bit beforehand to some of the more specific nonsense they'll see. I'm thinking that with so many "ironic" visitors, there must be a resource out there that'll take a little of the load off.
(In fact, it seems like a golden business opportunity to set up an info booth crammed with truth right outside the gates for people like me. Maybe that exists already.)
Ideally, I'd find something like an anti-guidebook that walks you through the museum and addresses it exhibit by exhibit. At the other end of the sliding scale is a bunch of textbooks on evolution, cosmology, geology, paleontology, etc.
This summer I'm taking a road trip with an 11 year old and a 13 year old. Both quite good at critical thinking and science stuff, though one doesn't have much biology/evolution. That one knows a fair amount of geology, though. All atheists.
I was looking for roadside attractions and noticed that the creationism museum was within a few miles so I thought we'd hit it for a laugh. Looking at photos before the trip, I'm beginning to realize we can do much more than laugh.
Obviously most of the stuff there is going to be unbelievably dumb...when you know the facts. I can probably rebut most of what they see (having learned a bunch of these lies in elementary school and learned the real facts later) but could get a little tired doing so. It'd also be nice to innoculate them a bit beforehand to some of the more specific nonsense they'll see. I'm thinking that with so many "ironic" visitors, there must be a resource out there that'll take a little of the load off.
(In fact, it seems like a golden business opportunity to set up an info booth crammed with truth right outside the gates for people like me. Maybe that exists already.)
Ideally, I'd find something like an anti-guidebook that walks you through the museum and addresses it exhibit by exhibit. At the other end of the sliding scale is a bunch of textbooks on evolution, cosmology, geology, paleontology, etc.
You should try reddit's r/atheism subreddit. You'll get a ton of people eager to help.
posted by Buffaload at 9:00 AM on July 17, 2012
posted by Buffaload at 9:00 AM on July 17, 2012
Visiting that museum is going to cost the three of you SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS. Why give those assholes your money?
posted by mkultra at 9:08 AM on July 17, 2012 [21 favorites]
posted by mkultra at 9:08 AM on July 17, 2012 [21 favorites]
Response by poster: Yeah, I thought of that. And worse, they'll probably add me to the statistics of "interest in our message".
That's why I want to make it about more than the lulz. If I can extract more than $75 of pro-real-science education out of it then they lose after all.
posted by DU at 9:15 AM on July 17, 2012
That's why I want to make it about more than the lulz. If I can extract more than $75 of pro-real-science education out of it then they lose after all.
posted by DU at 9:15 AM on July 17, 2012
Talk Origins' page, "Index to Creationist Claims" should be helpful. That whole site is a goldmine.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:16 AM on July 17, 2012
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:16 AM on July 17, 2012
Response by poster: Maybe I'm overestimating how many of their visitors are unbelievers and the place would just infuriate me.
posted by DU at 9:21 AM on July 17, 2012
posted by DU at 9:21 AM on July 17, 2012
If I can extract more than $75 of pro-real-science education out of it then they lose after all.
Or, you could invest that same $75 in the Cincinnati Museum of Science and Natural History, or the Drake Planetarium. Both are probably reachable in that same road trip. And both can be counted on to stimulate the brains of two youngsters who are quite good at critical thinking and science stuff.
posted by John Borrowman at 9:23 AM on July 17, 2012 [15 favorites]
Or, you could invest that same $75 in the Cincinnati Museum of Science and Natural History, or the Drake Planetarium. Both are probably reachable in that same road trip. And both can be counted on to stimulate the brains of two youngsters who are quite good at critical thinking and science stuff.
posted by John Borrowman at 9:23 AM on July 17, 2012 [15 favorites]
Ha! We just came back from a road trip through those parts, and this was on the "maybe" list for us. We decided not to go, ultimately, for various reasons and because we plan to go back to the area again some day, but better-prepared.
When I mentioned it on FB, a friend said "Whoa. It's way too far off reality and sanity's routes. Sounds more creepy than laugh-and-point funny to me." While my husband and I might have approached it for lulz (in the car on the way out - we'd behave there, I promise) we realized our eight year old daughter was under-prepared to know why it was creepy and might be even slightly funny. She just plain doesn't know enough about religion, though she knows plenty of science/biology/geology. We're not atheists, just under-educated and non-practicing and she's not been raised with any particular beliefs. She'd have no point of reference for why there was even this museum and all our answers would start with "Some people really believe this...like Grandma..." And at that point, we were concerned that we couldn't answer her questions on the spot in a way that was brief, articulate and most of all, at the very least respectful of any believers around us. So I appreciate your preparation! I'll be keeping an eye the other answers.
When we talked about the possibility of going, we did it by looking through this post about it on Roadside America (that has pictures, and which may be what you saw) (and which made it sound like no fun to her - crowds, pushing through exhibits quickly and the "far-reaching consequences of the Forbidden Fruit.") She asked if she could read some Bible stories about Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark and sacrifices. So I'm sure my mom has my old Children's Living Bible around somewhere, and maybe even my Bible Storybook. I'll probably let her find it lying around the house, and she can read it as she likes. And we can talk about it, and read more together. After all, the stories are compellingly full of all sorts of delightful horror - sacrifices, plagues, floods, and maybe even some smiting. And we listened to Tom Jones' Delilah about fifty times on the trip - she might as well know that story too. So, my advice is, maybe some good old Bible stories, so that you can point out that yes, some people believe that there were dinosaurs AND bunnies on Noah's arc. But they forgot the unicorns.
posted by peagood at 9:25 AM on July 17, 2012
When I mentioned it on FB, a friend said "Whoa. It's way too far off reality and sanity's routes. Sounds more creepy than laugh-and-point funny to me." While my husband and I might have approached it for lulz (in the car on the way out - we'd behave there, I promise) we realized our eight year old daughter was under-prepared to know why it was creepy and might be even slightly funny. She just plain doesn't know enough about religion, though she knows plenty of science/biology/geology. We're not atheists, just under-educated and non-practicing and she's not been raised with any particular beliefs. She'd have no point of reference for why there was even this museum and all our answers would start with "Some people really believe this...like Grandma..." And at that point, we were concerned that we couldn't answer her questions on the spot in a way that was brief, articulate and most of all, at the very least respectful of any believers around us. So I appreciate your preparation! I'll be keeping an eye the other answers.
When we talked about the possibility of going, we did it by looking through this post about it on Roadside America (that has pictures, and which may be what you saw) (and which made it sound like no fun to her - crowds, pushing through exhibits quickly and the "far-reaching consequences of the Forbidden Fruit.") She asked if she could read some Bible stories about Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark and sacrifices. So I'm sure my mom has my old Children's Living Bible around somewhere, and maybe even my Bible Storybook. I'll probably let her find it lying around the house, and she can read it as she likes. And we can talk about it, and read more together. After all, the stories are compellingly full of all sorts of delightful horror - sacrifices, plagues, floods, and maybe even some smiting. And we listened to Tom Jones' Delilah about fifty times on the trip - she might as well know that story too. So, my advice is, maybe some good old Bible stories, so that you can point out that yes, some people believe that there were dinosaurs AND bunnies on Noah's arc. But they forgot the unicorns.
posted by peagood at 9:25 AM on July 17, 2012
DU: "(In fact, it seems like a golden business opportunity to set up an info booth crammed with truth right outside the gates for people like me. Maybe that exists already.)"
The big reason this is not really a thing is this,
Ken Ham's theories, really, are entirely orthogonal to science the best one could learn about is religion gone terribly. If you go I would encourage you to be very careful about the message your kids get; steering them away from a lulzy takeaway and toward one of being able to listen to those who disagree to find ways to form the kinds of genuine human connections that are so much better in so many ways.
DU: "Maybe I'm overestimating how many of their visitors are unbelievers and the place would just infuriate me."
My understanding is that the vast majority of visitors are Evangelical, Amish, and socially disconnected folks who travel extraordinary distances.
posted by Blasdelb at 9:26 AM on July 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
The big reason this is not really a thing is this,
Adult (ages 13–59) $29.95The folks who have really thought about this sort of thing generally want to discourage folks from visiting because doing so funds Ken Ham's 'ministry.' Besides, the running wisdom is that ironic visitation doesn't really going to accomplish anything and causing a ruckus just creates a mess for the staff to deal with while further radicalizing them.
Senior (age 60 and up) $23.95
Children (ages 5–12) $15.95
Children (under age 5) FREE
Ken Ham's theories, really, are entirely orthogonal to science the best one could learn about is religion gone terribly. If you go I would encourage you to be very careful about the message your kids get; steering them away from a lulzy takeaway and toward one of being able to listen to those who disagree to find ways to form the kinds of genuine human connections that are so much better in so many ways.
DU: "Maybe I'm overestimating how many of their visitors are unbelievers and the place would just infuriate me."
My understanding is that the vast majority of visitors are Evangelical, Amish, and socially disconnected folks who travel extraordinary distances.
posted by Blasdelb at 9:26 AM on July 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
I was interested and so I Googled and found:
Create a Secular Tour Guide for the [name apparently redacted] Museum
A detailed breakdown on RationalWiki
A RationalWiki project to create a science-based (but not anti-religion) response to the museum
And finally, Their own blog on an athiest group visit - gives you some idea how they spin it.
Also, why the epithets? Is the goal to not to contribute to the Google ranking for them or something?
posted by Miko at 9:50 AM on July 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Create a Secular Tour Guide for the [name apparently redacted] Museum
A detailed breakdown on RationalWiki
A RationalWiki project to create a science-based (but not anti-religion) response to the museum
And finally, Their own blog on an athiest group visit - gives you some idea how they spin it.
Also, why the epithets? Is the goal to not to contribute to the Google ranking for them or something?
posted by Miko at 9:50 AM on July 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you really want to encourage critical thinking, take them without giving them prebuttals first. Then ask them what they thought about it. Explain some of the criticisms of creationism, to the extent you need to, and ask them what they think about that.
Explain where you going as something along the lines of 'a museum that explains where some religious people think life comes from'. When you ask them what they think about it, don't treat it as a test and don't expect right answers, just expect them to acknowledge contradictory points of view and think about them. The point is to encourage thinking.
My mom used to do this a lot with me when I was a kid. It definitely worked.
One thing to note though: if the kids have little exposure to Christianity and the Christian creation story, and you have to explain that to them as well, along with explaining evolution to the eleven year old, and maybe explaining that some Christians insist on taking it very literally while others don't, it might be better to skip this entirely. The explaining you'll have to do would get way too complicated and way too far over their heads for a 'what did you think about this' exercise to be meaningful.
If the kids have little prior knowledge about Christian beliefs, they can learn about world religions when they get older and understand where creationism comes from, but this will just be a weird museum uncle DU took us to, and will have very little educational value.
posted by nangar at 11:30 AM on July 17, 2012
Explain where you going as something along the lines of 'a museum that explains where some religious people think life comes from'. When you ask them what they think about it, don't treat it as a test and don't expect right answers, just expect them to acknowledge contradictory points of view and think about them. The point is to encourage thinking.
My mom used to do this a lot with me when I was a kid. It definitely worked.
One thing to note though: if the kids have little exposure to Christianity and the Christian creation story, and you have to explain that to them as well, along with explaining evolution to the eleven year old, and maybe explaining that some Christians insist on taking it very literally while others don't, it might be better to skip this entirely. The explaining you'll have to do would get way too complicated and way too far over their heads for a 'what did you think about this' exercise to be meaningful.
If the kids have little prior knowledge about Christian beliefs, they can learn about world religions when they get older and understand where creationism comes from, but this will just be a weird museum uncle DU took us to, and will have very little educational value.
posted by nangar at 11:30 AM on July 17, 2012
My spouse and I went a few years back, because I was in the Cincinnati area and it's free for military personnel (their website says you have to buy a full-price adult ticket, but I don't recall whether they actually made my spouse buy one). We're both evolutionists, but figured it would be at least a little amusing. It was. And I would never, ever take a child to it, no matter how smart or nearly adult that child happened to be.
For one, there's a lot of people there who really do believe this stuff. We quickly realized that we would have to be very circumspect about our laughter. You really are overestimating "how many of their visitors are unbelievers", and yes, the place will just infuriate you.
For another, there's a last exhibit that they don't seem to talk about on the website -- the "Why evolutionists and other secularists are responsible for the evils of the world" part. Flat-out evangelism, and I don't think you can avoid walking through it.
I beg of you not to bother.
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on July 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
For one, there's a lot of people there who really do believe this stuff. We quickly realized that we would have to be very circumspect about our laughter. You really are overestimating "how many of their visitors are unbelievers", and yes, the place will just infuriate you.
For another, there's a last exhibit that they don't seem to talk about on the website -- the "Why evolutionists and other secularists are responsible for the evils of the world" part. Flat-out evangelism, and I don't think you can avoid walking through it.
I beg of you not to bother.
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on July 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
They apparently reserve the right to insist that people critiquing their exhibits leave. Several people have blogged about this.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2012
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2012
If I can extract more than $75 of pro-real-science education out of it then they lose after all.
They'll use your $75 on children who don't have the same critical thinking skills as yours and $75 goes a lot further with those children, you're not going to come out on top and there are plenty of ways to teach your children about this sort of thing without supporting this nonsense.
posted by purplemonkeydishwasher at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
They'll use your $75 on children who don't have the same critical thinking skills as yours and $75 goes a lot further with those children, you're not going to come out on top and there are plenty of ways to teach your children about this sort of thing without supporting this nonsense.
posted by purplemonkeydishwasher at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Without addressing the propriety of your visit in the first place: maybe you should try just reading through the first several chapters of Genesis with them first? It's a riot! Tons of fun. Take it all at face value, and try to make sense of it all. With appropriately guided discussion, this should provide adequate prebuttal all by itself.
posted by dilettanti at 12:48 PM on July 17, 2012
posted by dilettanti at 12:48 PM on July 17, 2012
"Ironically", by going, you're supporting the "museum". Say what you will to whomsoever you will, but by purchasing tickets to this "museum", you are helping them pay rent or taxes or whatever. By giving them money, you are helping this "museum" exist. So support a real museum instead.
posted by oceanjesse at 8:39 PM on July 17, 2012
posted by oceanjesse at 8:39 PM on July 17, 2012
I visited with a friend. This was on my bucket list. I just HAD to see it. And you're right - it's hilarious. The museum-quality infographics that outline how "zany" evolution is, the huge displays that depict the story of Adam and Eve (the original barefoot and pregnant wife!), and some of the other hilarity masquerading as science... it's all wonderful. There's even a fucking dinosaur with a saddle on it that you can take a photo of your kids on. Or in my case, your 30-something lawyer friend. It is truly a sight to behold.
But you will be alone in your mockery. There are a LOT of people there who are there on "educational" field trips. The throngs of people who are there examining how a breeding pair of every animal on earth could fit onto the Ark (hint: they took babies! smaller animals means more can fit on a boat!) will not probably take kindly to your very loudly debunking their faith. There are signs asking that all patrons be respectful, and reserving the right to ask anyone to leave who is not being respectful. Seeing all those kids be taught this junk was really painful. I felt really sorry for them.
Under most circumstances, I would just think that maybe you might be "witnessed to." Because that's typically how these things go. Or prayed over. Or something like that. That's pretty easy to walk away from or otherwise disengage from. But having sat through one of the lectures given in the auditorium at this particular museum - these aren't the witnessing type. These are a group of people who feel very marginalized and very defensive. They believe that Science! is attacking them. And so if you are going to use this as an educational experience, I would be very very careful to be covert in how you do it.
posted by jph at 10:11 AM on July 18, 2012
But you will be alone in your mockery. There are a LOT of people there who are there on "educational" field trips. The throngs of people who are there examining how a breeding pair of every animal on earth could fit onto the Ark (hint: they took babies! smaller animals means more can fit on a boat!) will not probably take kindly to your very loudly debunking their faith. There are signs asking that all patrons be respectful, and reserving the right to ask anyone to leave who is not being respectful. Seeing all those kids be taught this junk was really painful. I felt really sorry for them.
Under most circumstances, I would just think that maybe you might be "witnessed to." Because that's typically how these things go. Or prayed over. Or something like that. That's pretty easy to walk away from or otherwise disengage from. But having sat through one of the lectures given in the auditorium at this particular museum - these aren't the witnessing type. These are a group of people who feel very marginalized and very defensive. They believe that Science! is attacking them. And so if you are going to use this as an educational experience, I would be very very careful to be covert in how you do it.
posted by jph at 10:11 AM on July 18, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:51 AM on July 17, 2012