How to make a relationship work?
July 11, 2012 6:58 AM Subscribe
I am starting to think that my boyfriend and I are not on the same page when it comes to what we want in our relationship (both now and in our future). Am I being silly or is this a deal breaker? Apologies in advance if this gets too long.
Bf and I have been dating for almost 3 years. I'm 28, he's in early 40s (if it matters). When we first started dating, we saw each other frequently, usually hanging out a couple of times a week and a lot on the weekends. Over the last year or so we have pretty much stopped seeing each other through out the week. We work in the same building so are able to see each other throughout the day, but I certainly wouldn't call it quality alone time.
Some issues we have are:
We both have stressful jobs and are pretty tired at the end of the day, but I would still like more quality time with him. He thinks that seeing each other on the weekends is plenty.
We both have dogs. They do not get along so sleepovers have been nonexistent. I'm bummed by this. I crave the closeness that waking up next to someone offers. It makes me feel like we will never be able to merge lives--which brings me to my next point:
When I brought this up his response was "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?" There was also the "It sounds like You want to live with someone or like you want to get married to someone." He completely took himself out of the equation. We've been dating for 3 years, of course I want that to be on the table. He's been married before and isn't big on marriage talk at this point.
Another factor: We have both expressed a desire to move out of the current city we live in, but now he has become tied to the city that we are living in and his job for the next several years. I feel like he thinks his future can't start until after this "stage" of his work situation is over.
In general, I am worried that we are not moving in the same direction. He feels like things are just fine as is. I've discussed this with him, but I feel like the conversation always ends in a heap of frustration.
Of possible interest: I spent the first part of my adulthood in a 7 year relationship that was dead end. I absolutely do not want to make the same mistake twice. Maybe I'm being to uptight because of this?
Is this something salvageable or should we cut ties and move on?
Bf and I have been dating for almost 3 years. I'm 28, he's in early 40s (if it matters). When we first started dating, we saw each other frequently, usually hanging out a couple of times a week and a lot on the weekends. Over the last year or so we have pretty much stopped seeing each other through out the week. We work in the same building so are able to see each other throughout the day, but I certainly wouldn't call it quality alone time.
Some issues we have are:
We both have stressful jobs and are pretty tired at the end of the day, but I would still like more quality time with him. He thinks that seeing each other on the weekends is plenty.
We both have dogs. They do not get along so sleepovers have been nonexistent. I'm bummed by this. I crave the closeness that waking up next to someone offers. It makes me feel like we will never be able to merge lives--which brings me to my next point:
When I brought this up his response was "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?" There was also the "It sounds like You want to live with someone or like you want to get married to someone." He completely took himself out of the equation. We've been dating for 3 years, of course I want that to be on the table. He's been married before and isn't big on marriage talk at this point.
Another factor: We have both expressed a desire to move out of the current city we live in, but now he has become tied to the city that we are living in and his job for the next several years. I feel like he thinks his future can't start until after this "stage" of his work situation is over.
In general, I am worried that we are not moving in the same direction. He feels like things are just fine as is. I've discussed this with him, but I feel like the conversation always ends in a heap of frustration.
Of possible interest: I spent the first part of my adulthood in a 7 year relationship that was dead end. I absolutely do not want to make the same mistake twice. Maybe I'm being to uptight because of this?
Is this something salvageable or should we cut ties and move on?
When he said "It sounds like You want to live with someone or like you want to get married to someone," did you say, "Yes, some time in the not-too-distant future, I do. Is that something you're interested in?"
Basically, you're making assumptions (and asking us to make assumptions) about what he's thinking based on cryptic comments and behaviors. If you want to know where your relationship is going, you need to ask your boyfriend where he sees the relationship going and tell him where you're hoping it will go. No one other than you and your boyfriend can decide whether the two of you are compatible enough to stay together.
posted by decathecting at 7:06 AM on July 11, 2012 [15 favorites]
Basically, you're making assumptions (and asking us to make assumptions) about what he's thinking based on cryptic comments and behaviors. If you want to know where your relationship is going, you need to ask your boyfriend where he sees the relationship going and tell him where you're hoping it will go. No one other than you and your boyfriend can decide whether the two of you are compatible enough to stay together.
posted by decathecting at 7:06 AM on July 11, 2012 [15 favorites]
You want very different things out of a relationship and it doesn't seem like either of you is willing to compromise (and, frankly, nor should you.) You want to get married, he is very much not interested in that. You want to move elsewhere, but he has mired his life so deeply in the city (in the 3 years you've been together) so as to make that impossible. You want to wake up next to someone and spend time with them during the week, he doesn't.
What's very clearly missing from your question is how happy he makes you or how in love you guys are. What are you getting out of this relationship?
posted by Flamingo at 7:08 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
What's very clearly missing from your question is how happy he makes you or how in love you guys are. What are you getting out of this relationship?
posted by Flamingo at 7:08 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
There are certainly clues here that he's not interested in more -- usually after so much time, you'd both be chafing against the limitations on your schedules, if nothing else. I'd say "talk to him about this," but you report that such discussions don't help -- can you expand on "the conversation always ends in a heap of frustration"? Maybe then we'll be in a better position to diagnose whether a different approach might be needed or whether it's time to wrap things up.
posted by acm at 7:08 AM on July 11, 2012
posted by acm at 7:08 AM on July 11, 2012
Best answer: "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?"
This after three years? Why are you not talking about merging lives? If his responses to conversations about taking your relationship to another level are this dismissive, I don't think he is looking for the same thing you are.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:08 AM on July 11, 2012 [56 favorites]
This after three years? Why are you not talking about merging lives? If his responses to conversations about taking your relationship to another level are this dismissive, I don't think he is looking for the same thing you are.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:08 AM on July 11, 2012 [56 favorites]
Urgh... might be a dealbreaker? Depends what you want, what hes willing to give, and, well, what you'll settle for. Anecdata, YMMV, etc, but at the three year mark, my gf and I are seriously working out how our lives will blend, and go into the future together. Yes, we sappy :D
Love languages! (I'ma start a mefi course on this, I think :D )) love language quick guide: Physical touch, quality time, gifts, services, words of encouragement. A lot of time, people don't know their partners language, so they try to give in their own language, and both parties end up feeling unloved.
Yours is clearly quality time. What is his?
Can you work this out? Probably. Is it worth it? I can't answer that for you. What does he want? Need? What is he willing to give to the relationship? I try not to go Intuition on these posts, but... kinda got a bad feeling bout this one. Sorry. Therapy, communicate, communicate, communicate... give it a good solid go, but don't wait forever. Good luck.
posted by Jacen at 7:11 AM on July 11, 2012
Love languages! (I'ma start a mefi course on this, I think :D )) love language quick guide: Physical touch, quality time, gifts, services, words of encouragement. A lot of time, people don't know their partners language, so they try to give in their own language, and both parties end up feeling unloved.
Yours is clearly quality time. What is his?
Can you work this out? Probably. Is it worth it? I can't answer that for you. What does he want? Need? What is he willing to give to the relationship? I try not to go Intuition on these posts, but... kinda got a bad feeling bout this one. Sorry. Therapy, communicate, communicate, communicate... give it a good solid go, but don't wait forever. Good luck.
posted by Jacen at 7:11 AM on July 11, 2012
He feels like things are just fine as is. I've discussed this with him, but I feel like the conversation always ends in a heap of frustration.
Basically he's getting everything he wants out of the relationship and he apparently isn't too concerned about you getting what you want in the relationship. He doesn't have to make any effort to "make the relationship work" because from his perspective it's already working, he doesn't want anything more out of it. If after 3 years he isn't even willing to talk about marriage that is a pretty big sign that his vision of an ideal relationship with you does not match up with your's. It might be possible to work through it if you communicate what you need in the relationship and he responds by helping make things work for you, but it's definitely a significant incompatibility and you may be better off starting things fresh with someone who wants more of the same type of relationship as you do.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:11 AM on July 11, 2012 [11 favorites]
Basically he's getting everything he wants out of the relationship and he apparently isn't too concerned about you getting what you want in the relationship. He doesn't have to make any effort to "make the relationship work" because from his perspective it's already working, he doesn't want anything more out of it. If after 3 years he isn't even willing to talk about marriage that is a pretty big sign that his vision of an ideal relationship with you does not match up with your's. It might be possible to work through it if you communicate what you need in the relationship and he responds by helping make things work for you, but it's definitely a significant incompatibility and you may be better off starting things fresh with someone who wants more of the same type of relationship as you do.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:11 AM on July 11, 2012 [11 favorites]
Best answer: I'm sorry to hear your frustration. These things are never easy. :(
From someone who is also a serial monogamer with a decorated past of dead-end relationships, I feel you. You're definitely right to feel worried that you might be up against the potential to make the same mistake twice. It's a good thing that you have this on the radar though!
You've been together for 3 years, so obviously there's something keeping you with him that you love about him. It's not a bad thing to feel frustrated, and it's also certainly not a bad thing to recognize that your wants are not being fulfilled.
If I were in your shoes, I would send him a brief but pleasant email asking him to schedule an hour to sit down with you to have a serious discussion. If your jobs are both stressful and crazy then this won't seem as cold and type-A as it sounds, seriously. Hell, send him an outlook meeing invitation if you want. But have the discussion, and don't make it casual - this needs to be a Serious Business Discussion, because hey - you've been together for 3 years and this is serious!
When you have said discussion, be honest with him and be honest with yourself. Tell him what you want from the relationship. Then ask him if he wants the same thing - if yes, then ask him if he is willing to work with you to get there. If yes to that, then actually put together a plan to combine lives. Talk finances and houses and all the details. It's not a very romantic discussion, but it's important and a big step to get where you want to be.
If he doesn't want the same thing then this is the part where you have to be brutally honest. It's obviously upsetting you that you're not getting what you want and if you're not on the same page and you've been dragging along for 3 years, then you need to end it. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you know what you want and if he doesn't want the same thing, then get back out there and find someone who does want the same thing.
It's not wrong or bad to want to settle down. It's not wrong or bad to want an old-fashioned, adult, home-from-work-at-6-and-lets-make-dinner-and-watch-tv relationship where you live under the same roof with your two dogs and do boring things like crossword puzzles together in bed and then get up at 6am to exercise before going to work. It's not wrong to want committment and for your partner to not be flakey and to move the relationship along just as you have been since you're BOTH in the relationship.
posted by floweredfish at 7:13 AM on July 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
From someone who is also a serial monogamer with a decorated past of dead-end relationships, I feel you. You're definitely right to feel worried that you might be up against the potential to make the same mistake twice. It's a good thing that you have this on the radar though!
You've been together for 3 years, so obviously there's something keeping you with him that you love about him. It's not a bad thing to feel frustrated, and it's also certainly not a bad thing to recognize that your wants are not being fulfilled.
If I were in your shoes, I would send him a brief but pleasant email asking him to schedule an hour to sit down with you to have a serious discussion. If your jobs are both stressful and crazy then this won't seem as cold and type-A as it sounds, seriously. Hell, send him an outlook meeing invitation if you want. But have the discussion, and don't make it casual - this needs to be a Serious Business Discussion, because hey - you've been together for 3 years and this is serious!
When you have said discussion, be honest with him and be honest with yourself. Tell him what you want from the relationship. Then ask him if he wants the same thing - if yes, then ask him if he is willing to work with you to get there. If yes to that, then actually put together a plan to combine lives. Talk finances and houses and all the details. It's not a very romantic discussion, but it's important and a big step to get where you want to be.
If he doesn't want the same thing then this is the part where you have to be brutally honest. It's obviously upsetting you that you're not getting what you want and if you're not on the same page and you've been dragging along for 3 years, then you need to end it. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you know what you want and if he doesn't want the same thing, then get back out there and find someone who does want the same thing.
It's not wrong or bad to want to settle down. It's not wrong or bad to want an old-fashioned, adult, home-from-work-at-6-and-lets-make-dinner-and-watch-tv relationship where you live under the same roof with your two dogs and do boring things like crossword puzzles together in bed and then get up at 6am to exercise before going to work. It's not wrong to want committment and for your partner to not be flakey and to move the relationship along just as you have been since you're BOTH in the relationship.
posted by floweredfish at 7:13 AM on July 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
We've been dating for 3 years, of course I want that to be on the table
He's in his early 40's and once divorced. This is not an of course for him anymore.
You need to say something akin to:
"I want to live together and get married some, that is what I'm looking for out of a partner, those things don't need to happen today or this year but they are things I imagine for myself in X years"
And go from there. You don't want this to be a 7 year dead end, what about a 3 year dead end? 4? 5? how many years fewer than 7 are you willing to keep living like this.
It is very possible he wants things to be like this forever. You need to decide if that is a huge waste of your late 20's. Sounds like you already know this though.
posted by French Fry at 7:23 AM on July 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
He's in his early 40's and once divorced. This is not an of course for him anymore.
You need to say something akin to:
"I want to live together and get married some, that is what I'm looking for out of a partner, those things don't need to happen today or this year but they are things I imagine for myself in X years"
And go from there. You don't want this to be a 7 year dead end, what about a 3 year dead end? 4? 5? how many years fewer than 7 are you willing to keep living like this.
It is very possible he wants things to be like this forever. You need to decide if that is a huge waste of your late 20's. Sounds like you already know this though.
posted by French Fry at 7:23 AM on July 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
A very, very painful lesson to learn is "believe people when they tell you things". It's easy to learn "hey, people are dishonest sometimes"... but for some reason, it's a lot harder for us to learn "people's statements should sometimes be taken at face value, rather than rationalized into what WE want them to be."
"We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?" That really stood out for me... because I know that if I were in your situation, I'd be desperately trying to find SOME way to reconcile that statement with my OWN hopes for the future. And deep down, I'd also know that I couldn't. Those are the words of a man who isn't committed, who WILL NOT commit.
This situation, sucks, I know... but please trust that accepting his words at face value will be way less painful in the long run than trying to spin them into something they're not.
posted by julthumbscrew at 7:30 AM on July 11, 2012 [21 favorites]
"We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?" That really stood out for me... because I know that if I were in your situation, I'd be desperately trying to find SOME way to reconcile that statement with my OWN hopes for the future. And deep down, I'd also know that I couldn't. Those are the words of a man who isn't committed, who WILL NOT commit.
This situation, sucks, I know... but please trust that accepting his words at face value will be way less painful in the long run than trying to spin them into something they're not.
posted by julthumbscrew at 7:30 AM on July 11, 2012 [21 favorites]
allnamesaretaken: "I spent the first part of my adulthood in a 7 year relationship that was dead end. I absolutely do not want to make the same mistake twice."
There's no way of telling when you get into a relationship whether it's ultimately going to be a dead end. You just have to take your chances and enjoy the ride.
After three years, though, you can tell. Sounds like it's time to move on.
posted by adamrice at 7:32 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
There's no way of telling when you get into a relationship whether it's ultimately going to be a dead end. You just have to take your chances and enjoy the ride.
After three years, though, you can tell. Sounds like it's time to move on.
posted by adamrice at 7:32 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Three years is a long time for this to have not come up. He's fine with things as they are, and in relationships the person who wants to make the least amount of effort wins. If you're okay with that, that's your answer.
If you're not okay with that, you can't make him want more. You could threaten or blackmail or agitate him until he agrees, but that's not the same as him wanting the same relationship you want.
You quoted him as saying "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?", and then you go on to talk about "additional factors." There aren't any additional factors after that. He's casually dating you, it doesn't matter where he does or doesn't want to live or who's going to re-home a dog, it's not that kind of relationship.
This has been a dead end since the first time the two of you should have had a talk about your goals in life and didn't. For most people, that's a year in at the latest and more like a couple of months.
You seem to know a lot already about how he feels about marriage, and he doesn't seem to have been previously aware of how you felt. I have been in situations where men have told me up front that they were not interested in a long-term life-merging relationship and I said lalala and told myself I would change him, and maybe you've been doing that too. But he seems to be real clear on what he wants so it's probably time you base your decisions on the actual words coming out of his face.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:33 AM on July 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
If you're not okay with that, you can't make him want more. You could threaten or blackmail or agitate him until he agrees, but that's not the same as him wanting the same relationship you want.
You quoted him as saying "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?", and then you go on to talk about "additional factors." There aren't any additional factors after that. He's casually dating you, it doesn't matter where he does or doesn't want to live or who's going to re-home a dog, it's not that kind of relationship.
This has been a dead end since the first time the two of you should have had a talk about your goals in life and didn't. For most people, that's a year in at the latest and more like a couple of months.
You seem to know a lot already about how he feels about marriage, and he doesn't seem to have been previously aware of how you felt. I have been in situations where men have told me up front that they were not interested in a long-term life-merging relationship and I said lalala and told myself I would change him, and maybe you've been doing that too. But he seems to be real clear on what he wants so it's probably time you base your decisions on the actual words coming out of his face.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:33 AM on July 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
I am worried that we are not moving in the same direction. He feels like things are just fine as is. I've discussed this with him, but I feel like the conversation always ends in a heap of fr ustration.
This conversation always ends in frustration because you two want completely different things out of this relationship. This is exactly what a dead end looks like. It sounds like you've put a lot of effort and heart into your relationship with this guy. You deserve to be with someone who can reciprocate what you want.
Time to move on to bigger and better things.
posted by 3T at 7:33 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
This conversation always ends in frustration because you two want completely different things out of this relationship. This is exactly what a dead end looks like. It sounds like you've put a lot of effort and heart into your relationship with this guy. You deserve to be with someone who can reciprocate what you want.
Time to move on to bigger and better things.
posted by 3T at 7:33 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
You need to have a straightforward conversation about where you two both see yourself in the not too distant future. You need to decide what you want and so does he and if there is too large a gulf to bridge between both your wants then its a dealbreaker.
You are young and its possible he never realized that you were really interested in settling down. Or he'd been there done that and found its not something he wants to do again. Or he does but wants to go very slow after his divorce. And while I don't think marriage has the be the "end point" of a relationship, if that's what you want you can't settle for seeing someone on the weekends.
If a conversation of this magnitude ends in "a heap of frustration" its because you can't bridge that gulf either because its just too much difference or because someone in the conversation values their needs and wants too much to negotiate. If you can't get anywhere in a conversation you certainly don't have much of a future together.
julthumbscrew is dead on to say its hard to just believe people. But he's been as clear as he can be without a flashing sign. He's happy to have someone to hang out with and doesn't want something more. You're "just dating." Sorry.
posted by GilvearSt at 7:35 AM on July 11, 2012
You are young and its possible he never realized that you were really interested in settling down. Or he'd been there done that and found its not something he wants to do again. Or he does but wants to go very slow after his divorce. And while I don't think marriage has the be the "end point" of a relationship, if that's what you want you can't settle for seeing someone on the weekends.
If a conversation of this magnitude ends in "a heap of frustration" its because you can't bridge that gulf either because its just too much difference or because someone in the conversation values their needs and wants too much to negotiate. If you can't get anywhere in a conversation you certainly don't have much of a future together.
julthumbscrew is dead on to say its hard to just believe people. But he's been as clear as he can be without a flashing sign. He's happy to have someone to hang out with and doesn't want something more. You're "just dating." Sorry.
posted by GilvearSt at 7:35 AM on July 11, 2012
You know the answer to your own question. The problem is not if it is a deal breaker, the problem is if you can change the situation or how to make this not a deal breaker because you have invested three years of your life with this person.
Age isn't an issue, but what you want vs. what he wants is. What did you say to him when he said you are just dating so why are you talking about merging lives? Did you tell him you would like to be more than dating and merge lives? You should ask him what his intentions are and tell him what yours are. Hopefully you will get the answers you need to get what you would like out of the relationship you have.
posted by Yellow at 7:35 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Age isn't an issue, but what you want vs. what he wants is. What did you say to him when he said you are just dating so why are you talking about merging lives? Did you tell him you would like to be more than dating and merge lives? You should ask him what his intentions are and tell him what yours are. Hopefully you will get the answers you need to get what you would like out of the relationship you have.
posted by Yellow at 7:35 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'd move on if I were you. He doesn't want the same things you want and he's making no effort to merge lives (because he doesn't want to!). You're still in your 20s -- plenty of time to find a guy who's a better match for you. Sorry you have to deal with this.
posted by jabes at 7:57 AM on July 11, 2012
posted by jabes at 7:57 AM on July 11, 2012
I spent the first part of my adulthood in a 7 year relationship that was dead end. I absolutely do not want to make the same mistake twice.
Note: You are making the same mistake a 2nd time. This man does not want to live together or get married. You do, so that is a dealbreaker and you need to break up. If any of your "move in together, get married" plans include the step "have children" then you need to break up as fast as possible so you can get through the heartbreak and get back on the market.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2012 [14 favorites]
Note: You are making the same mistake a 2nd time. This man does not want to live together or get married. You do, so that is a dealbreaker and you need to break up. If any of your "move in together, get married" plans include the step "have children" then you need to break up as fast as possible so you can get through the heartbreak and get back on the market.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2012 [14 favorites]
It is a dead end if you want to merge your lives, live together, and eventually get married, when it doesn't sound like he wants any of those things. I'm not overly optimistic given his previous responses, but this is something you need a definitive answer on before you proceed further.
FWIW I had a long-term relationship with someone like that (we were just dating, our lives were not going to merge) and that was fine for about 2 years. Once I realised I wanted more and that he likely never would, I could never be satisfied again. So for me, this would not be salvageable, because once the cat is out of the bag you can't just stuff him back in there again.
posted by sm1tten at 8:30 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
FWIW I had a long-term relationship with someone like that (we were just dating, our lives were not going to merge) and that was fine for about 2 years. Once I realised I wanted more and that he likely never would, I could never be satisfied again. So for me, this would not be salvageable, because once the cat is out of the bag you can't just stuff him back in there again.
posted by sm1tten at 8:30 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've been the partner that just let the relationship drift along for years, with no intention of forming a closer commitment. This guy knows all the dodges. Still, he likes you enough to let you put the effort into spending time with him on his terms. If after 3 years he doesn't want to merge lives, it's not likely he ever will. I had a 5-year relationship like this. I was careful not to say the "L" word, not to classify us as anything other than "dating", to deflect all marriage talk. I wasn't ever going to commit to my ex, but as long as he was content to provide companionship and sex, I let it drag on. It was a huge waste of both our time. I wish I'd broken it off sooner because being in a relationship where you have a connection is so much better.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
You want a serious relationship leading to marriage and he wants to casually date and not "merge lives." These are not compatible views. Stop wasting your time and move on.
posted by Slinga at 8:34 AM on July 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 8:34 AM on July 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
I agree with everyone else, you need to break it off. But the part about never sleeping over after three years is an even clearer sign to me that it's not going anywhere. I don't think the dogs are a very convincing reason for it -- couldn't you just put them in different rooms, or leave one home alone for the night? I guess I'm no dog expert though.
posted by pete_22 at 8:36 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by pete_22 at 8:36 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ah, I feel for you, allnamesaretaken.
It makes me feel like we will never be able to merge lives--which brings me to my next point:
When I brought this up his response was "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?"
It sounds like you have your very clear answer, there. But you know, while these things he's saying are clear, they're also a bit passive. I mean, he has never come out and forthrightly said, "Look allnames are taken. I don't see myself ever marrying you, and I don't consider our relationship to be very serious or headed towards marriage. I don't want to waste your time while you are in your late 20's, the prime years for finding a serious relationship that ends in marriage. So I want that to be crystal clear that it's not going to happen with us."
The fact that he has never really laid it down for you like that makes me think that he is definitely getting something out of your relationship. He doesn't want to take it as far as merging lives or marriage. But there is something that he's getting out of it in the state that it is right now and he doesn't want to give that up. And, I think he is kind of ignoring your best interests (which, if you want marriage, would be to leave him ASAP and find someone else who would be open to that with you) because he doesn't want to give that up.
I think you have nothing to lose by just laying it out there and saying point blank that you don't want to be "dating," you want to be in a merged lives or marriage situation, and you need to know with a lot more clarity where he stands on that. I don't think saying that to him will change anything about how *he* feels, but maybe if you hear it bluntly, you will have more clarity for what is best for you.
posted by cairdeas at 8:44 AM on July 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
It makes me feel like we will never be able to merge lives--which brings me to my next point:
When I brought this up his response was "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?"
It sounds like you have your very clear answer, there. But you know, while these things he's saying are clear, they're also a bit passive. I mean, he has never come out and forthrightly said, "Look allnames are taken. I don't see myself ever marrying you, and I don't consider our relationship to be very serious or headed towards marriage. I don't want to waste your time while you are in your late 20's, the prime years for finding a serious relationship that ends in marriage. So I want that to be crystal clear that it's not going to happen with us."
The fact that he has never really laid it down for you like that makes me think that he is definitely getting something out of your relationship. He doesn't want to take it as far as merging lives or marriage. But there is something that he's getting out of it in the state that it is right now and he doesn't want to give that up. And, I think he is kind of ignoring your best interests (which, if you want marriage, would be to leave him ASAP and find someone else who would be open to that with you) because he doesn't want to give that up.
I think you have nothing to lose by just laying it out there and saying point blank that you don't want to be "dating," you want to be in a merged lives or marriage situation, and you need to know with a lot more clarity where he stands on that. I don't think saying that to him will change anything about how *he* feels, but maybe if you hear it bluntly, you will have more clarity for what is best for you.
posted by cairdeas at 8:44 AM on July 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
I am worried that we are not moving in the same direction. He feels like things are just fine as is. I've discussed this with him, but I feel like the conversation always ends in a heap of fr ustration.
You want to be in a relationship that's headed for marriage. He does not.
Your point of view is legitimate. So is his. But they are ultimately incompatible, and -- after three years -- they are extremely unlikely to change. This is literally the very definition of a deal-breaker.
The answer is not to try to communicate better, or to try to convince your boyfriend to change who he is fundamentally (because he's not a bad person for wanting what he wants), or to change who you are fundamentally (because you're not a bad person for wanting what you want), or to convince yourself that you're being uptight and that your needs don't matter. The answer is to move on, grieve the end of this relationship, and eventually find another relationship in which you and your partner both want the same thing.
posted by scody at 8:49 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
You want to be in a relationship that's headed for marriage. He does not.
Your point of view is legitimate. So is his. But they are ultimately incompatible, and -- after three years -- they are extremely unlikely to change. This is literally the very definition of a deal-breaker.
The answer is not to try to communicate better, or to try to convince your boyfriend to change who he is fundamentally (because he's not a bad person for wanting what he wants), or to change who you are fundamentally (because you're not a bad person for wanting what you want), or to convince yourself that you're being uptight and that your needs don't matter. The answer is to move on, grieve the end of this relationship, and eventually find another relationship in which you and your partner both want the same thing.
posted by scody at 8:49 AM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
We've been dating for 3 years, of course I want that to be on the table
You are making an assumption here. It is not a given that everyone thinks that way. That is why you need to say it clearly.
Next time, you need to say that you are interested in continued dating, but only if marriage/living together is on the table. You need to say it much, much earlier in the relationship.
Also, in the same vein, do not assume that living together will lead to marriage.
posted by Vaike at 8:52 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are making an assumption here. It is not a given that everyone thinks that way. That is why you need to say it clearly.
Next time, you need to say that you are interested in continued dating, but only if marriage/living together is on the table. You need to say it much, much earlier in the relationship.
Also, in the same vein, do not assume that living together will lead to marriage.
posted by Vaike at 8:52 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sorry if this has already been said upthread, but I think this situation is pretty clear-cut. He is telling you outright that he does not want what you want out of your relationship, which makes it untenable. This is a great example of the truth of that old AskMe saw--listen to what people tell you about themselves. Time to shake hands and part ways, I think. The possibility for a more mutually satisfying relationship exists out there, but you have to move on from this one first.
posted by anonnymoose at 9:04 AM on July 11, 2012
posted by anonnymoose at 9:04 AM on July 11, 2012
Agreeing with nearly everyone that your boyfriend has pretty much come right out and said that he doesn't want the relationship to change into something more committed.
It seems to me that you're walking on egg shells, auditioning for the part of wife and hoping that he'll grant it to you.
Men who see you as a partner will work to get you into their lives. You're dogs don't get along? He'll move heaven and earth to fix that situation. You want to spend time with him? He want's it more.
A guy who only wants to see you when he's rested and bored, is not a boyfriend.
You had a good run, you enjoyed yourself, but if you want to be married and have a lifelong partner, this guy is not the one.
You don't have to have a dramatic break up. Just don't call him, and when he calls you, have plans.
Or go over to his house, get whatever stuff you have over there, and just say to him, "It's been great, but I need to be with someone who is interested in marriage, and I'm getting from you that you're not that guy." He won't deny it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that you're walking on egg shells, auditioning for the part of wife and hoping that he'll grant it to you.
Men who see you as a partner will work to get you into their lives. You're dogs don't get along? He'll move heaven and earth to fix that situation. You want to spend time with him? He want's it more.
A guy who only wants to see you when he's rested and bored, is not a boyfriend.
You had a good run, you enjoyed yourself, but if you want to be married and have a lifelong partner, this guy is not the one.
You don't have to have a dramatic break up. Just don't call him, and when he calls you, have plans.
Or go over to his house, get whatever stuff you have over there, and just say to him, "It's been great, but I need to be with someone who is interested in marriage, and I'm getting from you that you're not that guy." He won't deny it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think you have to do your due diligence. Press the issue with a serious discussion to impress upon him what you want. You need to be prepared to walk. You're still pretty young at 28, don't waste the best years of your life! If he agrees to what you want, make sure you develop a specific timeline. I have a friend who was in a 10-year dead end relationship. The guy said he would marry her, but never did. She wasted her entire 30s on this guy. Don't let this happen to you!
In summary, talk, but be prepared to walk.
posted by Jurbano at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
In summary, talk, but be prepared to walk.
posted by Jurbano at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: There's nothing wrong with him or what he wants. There's also nothing wrong with you or what you want. There is something wrong, however, with the two of you being in a relationship together because it seems that the two of you want different things. Neither of you are bad for wanting those things.
The truth is, there is a guy out there who doesn't think that seeing you on the weekends is enough and wants to hang out on the weekdays as well. Who is looking for a relationship that will lead to marriage (or at least long term living together as partners). Who always wanted a dog and is stoked that you have one. Who doesn't have any particular ties to this city and would consider moving.
Actually, there are probably quite a few guys out there like that. Go find one of them.
It's probably going to be tough to break up with your boyfriend, because he doesn't sound like a bad person. But just because he's not a bad person doesn't mean he's not bad for you.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:28 AM on July 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
The truth is, there is a guy out there who doesn't think that seeing you on the weekends is enough and wants to hang out on the weekdays as well. Who is looking for a relationship that will lead to marriage (or at least long term living together as partners). Who always wanted a dog and is stoked that you have one. Who doesn't have any particular ties to this city and would consider moving.
Actually, there are probably quite a few guys out there like that. Go find one of them.
It's probably going to be tough to break up with your boyfriend, because he doesn't sound like a bad person. But just because he's not a bad person doesn't mean he's not bad for you.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:28 AM on July 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
Anecdata, for what it's worth: I've dated both Seeing-Each-Other-On-Weekends-Is-Enough Guy and Never-Sleeps-Over Guy.
Both relationships ended when I made it clear that I wanted more. The behavioral signs were there all along; I simply didn't want to see them because I loved both guys.
Love, unfortunately, isn't enough. Hard to learn, but true.
I'm not saying that my experience predicts yours, of course. But I do wish that I'd paid more attention to the ways that each man held himself back. Sadly, as someone said upthread, the least invested person does indeed control the course of the relationship.
Best of luck to you.
posted by chicainthecity at 9:31 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Both relationships ended when I made it clear that I wanted more. The behavioral signs were there all along; I simply didn't want to see them because I loved both guys.
Love, unfortunately, isn't enough. Hard to learn, but true.
I'm not saying that my experience predicts yours, of course. But I do wish that I'd paid more attention to the ways that each man held himself back. Sadly, as someone said upthread, the least invested person does indeed control the course of the relationship.
Best of luck to you.
posted by chicainthecity at 9:31 AM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
The bad news is, you are in the exact kind of relationship, right now, that you see in Dear Abby periodically - some person in their early 50s is trying to figure out why their SO of 15-20 years still won't formally commit. The great news is, you don't have to stay in this relationship, and so you aren't going to be writing to Dear Abby and having her try and explain how many years ago you should have realized this wasn't going to happen the way you wanted it to.
If I'm reading this right, this is your second long-term adult relationship ever. I think you need to recognize that you, as an individual, very highly value permanence and stability and having long-term goals, and so you must make that clear to people much much much earlier in your relationships than you have been. This is a sixth-date conversation, not a third-year conversation. You started this relationship at 25, right? That's still on the end of things, demographically, where many/most people won't have expected that from you. I'm reasonably confident your current SO didn't expect that from you. The good news is, every day you get closer to 35, the more people will expect that from you, and the easier it will be to convey this.
You have the right to express theses kinds of desires. You have the right to have these kinds of desires. It's a lot kinder to yourself and everyone else to be really forthright about these desires, in fact.
(I second the "serious sit down conversation in neutral territory must happen now" and "you're probably not going to be having a marriage with this guy" answers, above.)
[Wacky coincidence: Today's Dear Abby is a question exactly like this; they've been together 16 years. I swear I didn't know this till I was hunting down the link to Dear Abby's homepage, really.]
posted by SMPA at 9:37 AM on July 11, 2012 [7 favorites]
If I'm reading this right, this is your second long-term adult relationship ever. I think you need to recognize that you, as an individual, very highly value permanence and stability and having long-term goals, and so you must make that clear to people much much much earlier in your relationships than you have been. This is a sixth-date conversation, not a third-year conversation. You started this relationship at 25, right? That's still on the end of things, demographically, where many/most people won't have expected that from you. I'm reasonably confident your current SO didn't expect that from you. The good news is, every day you get closer to 35, the more people will expect that from you, and the easier it will be to convey this.
You have the right to express theses kinds of desires. You have the right to have these kinds of desires. It's a lot kinder to yourself and everyone else to be really forthright about these desires, in fact.
(I second the "serious sit down conversation in neutral territory must happen now" and "you're probably not going to be having a marriage with this guy" answers, above.)
[Wacky coincidence: Today's Dear Abby is a question exactly like this; they've been together 16 years. I swear I didn't know this till I was hunting down the link to Dear Abby's homepage, really.]
posted by SMPA at 9:37 AM on July 11, 2012 [7 favorites]
This is the pretty frightening stage of the relationship where you realize that as much as you love someone it is now necessary to have a conversation that may end with you not being with that person any more.
You need to figure out exactly what you want and need, and make sure he's on the same page. Stuff like "I don't want to think about that right now," "Why can't we just let it be," "Things are good as they are," and anything that's not "I see lifelong potential for our relationship" are indicators that if you want marriage and family this guy is probably not going to give it to you. I say that as someone who is him and has been on his side of the equation. The not-cowardly thing to do is to say "If you want marriage, you won't find it with me" but he's probably not ready to do that because he likes where you guys are now and doesn't want things to end. But note that "Not wanting things to end" is not the same as "Looking for a long-term, forever relationship."
posted by Anonymous at 9:41 AM on July 11, 2012
You need to figure out exactly what you want and need, and make sure he's on the same page. Stuff like "I don't want to think about that right now," "Why can't we just let it be," "Things are good as they are," and anything that's not "I see lifelong potential for our relationship" are indicators that if you want marriage and family this guy is probably not going to give it to you. I say that as someone who is him and has been on his side of the equation. The not-cowardly thing to do is to say "If you want marriage, you won't find it with me" but he's probably not ready to do that because he likes where you guys are now and doesn't want things to end. But note that "Not wanting things to end" is not the same as "Looking for a long-term, forever relationship."
posted by Anonymous at 9:41 AM on July 11, 2012
I'm sorry; this sounds very painful for you.
One thing stood out for me: "our dogs do not get along." In this relationship (or the next, totally awesome one), do not let your dogs dictate your sleepovers. They are pack animals, and the primary reason they aren't getting along is because you're allowing them to not get along. Alpha up! And best of luck to you.
posted by cyndigo at 10:14 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
One thing stood out for me: "our dogs do not get along." In this relationship (or the next, totally awesome one), do not let your dogs dictate your sleepovers. They are pack animals, and the primary reason they aren't getting along is because you're allowing them to not get along. Alpha up! And best of luck to you.
posted by cyndigo at 10:14 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
The part about the dogs being the reason for no sleepovers is just complete and utter bullshit after three years of dating. If he does not want to figure out that minor detail, there is no hope. He just doesn't want to figure it out. Look at it as him choosing the dog over you (because that's what it is) and you'll understand this at a more visceral level.
posted by desjardins at 11:32 AM on July 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 11:32 AM on July 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
You and this fellow are definitely not on the same page. You're not even reading from the same book. The thing is that the relationship you are in with him is not the same as the relationship he is in with you. He is "just dating" you. You don't have sleepovers. He doesn't want to "merge lives." He has been up front with you on that. So now be honest with yourself. Go find someone who wants what you want and be happy.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 11:46 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 11:46 AM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
It sounds to me like your boyfriend already got the experience of marriage and now does not want that. You on the other hand do and yes this is a deal dealbreaker.
Speaking to the fact that you were in a 7 year dead end relationship and this relationship appears to be a 3 year dead end releationship - The people above telling you that this type of discussion should come up earlier in your relationships at this stage in your life are correct. I am 27 and was also in habitually dead end long term relationships until recently. THe thing I realized though is that a relationship that begins in your teens isn't necessarily a waste of time if after years it didnt work out because in general, you are not expected to start dating someone at 17 and then have the marriage discussion at 18. In modern (western) society it's all but expected that you piddle around for a few more years after 18 before settling down. I used to, and think that you may be, imposing arbitrarily long time periods on yourself to have these "what do i want for the future" talks. Now that you are older, one of the benefits is that you can have these talks after a few months, or even one month without sounding like a hormonal crazy lovestruck teenager. AT your age you have a better knowledge of what you want than you did 3 years ago or 10 years ago, so don't be afraid to use it and to screen partners for compatibility earlier.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:49 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Speaking to the fact that you were in a 7 year dead end relationship and this relationship appears to be a 3 year dead end releationship - The people above telling you that this type of discussion should come up earlier in your relationships at this stage in your life are correct. I am 27 and was also in habitually dead end long term relationships until recently. THe thing I realized though is that a relationship that begins in your teens isn't necessarily a waste of time if after years it didnt work out because in general, you are not expected to start dating someone at 17 and then have the marriage discussion at 18. In modern (western) society it's all but expected that you piddle around for a few more years after 18 before settling down. I used to, and think that you may be, imposing arbitrarily long time periods on yourself to have these "what do i want for the future" talks. Now that you are older, one of the benefits is that you can have these talks after a few months, or even one month without sounding like a hormonal crazy lovestruck teenager. AT your age you have a better knowledge of what you want than you did 3 years ago or 10 years ago, so don't be afraid to use it and to screen partners for compatibility earlier.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:49 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just want to +1 the idea that in the future, you should have conversations about goals much, much earlier. At least within the first couple months, and frankly I often end up having these within the first couple dates. Thats not about saying "I want to marry *you*", just "I want to marry somebody". If one of you does and one doesn't, it's way easier to move on early in a relationship and find what you actually want.
Now, this doesn't prevent heartache --- people change their minds all the time. But it's rarely a good idea to *hope* someone will change their mind who says they want something else. This applies to marriage, kids, all sorts of Big Life Stuff.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:50 PM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Now, this doesn't prevent heartache --- people change their minds all the time. But it's rarely a good idea to *hope* someone will change their mind who says they want something else. This applies to marriage, kids, all sorts of Big Life Stuff.
posted by wildcrdj at 12:50 PM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
When I brought this up his response was "We are just dating. Why are you talking about merging lives?"
This is also... not to be too critical because I know this is someone you love, but this just seems like pretend ignorance. I think he is probably very well aware that women in their late 20's who have been with someone for three years want to get serious. I think he is probably very well aware that YOU want to get serious.
So to come at it like you're acting weird or presumptuous and wanting something that just doesn't follow in this situation or make sense in this situation... strikes me as just not totally honest. It strikes me as a way of kind of shutting you down by making you the weird/wrong one, in a way.
posted by cairdeas at 1:07 PM on July 11, 2012 [14 favorites]
This is also... not to be too critical because I know this is someone you love, but this just seems like pretend ignorance. I think he is probably very well aware that women in their late 20's who have been with someone for three years want to get serious. I think he is probably very well aware that YOU want to get serious.
So to come at it like you're acting weird or presumptuous and wanting something that just doesn't follow in this situation or make sense in this situation... strikes me as just not totally honest. It strikes me as a way of kind of shutting you down by making you the weird/wrong one, in a way.
posted by cairdeas at 1:07 PM on July 11, 2012 [14 favorites]
I'm sorry to say this, but I've been the guy who only wants to hang out once a week, and it was because I really wasn't very excited by the relationship. This same relationship was basically the only time that I made semantic distinctions about "dating" and "seeing each other" and etc, which it sounds like he's doing. Definitely have a talk with him about this, but it sounds to me like the two of you may not have the same level of engagement in the relationship, which can absolutely be a dealbreaker.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:10 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:10 PM on July 11, 2012
I came back to try to state my previous response more succinctly. In sum: it's a good idea not to commit yourself to someone who won't commit to you.
posted by anonnymoose at 2:39 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by anonnymoose at 2:39 PM on July 11, 2012
Get out. It will be painful but trust me that you will not regret it.
posted by timsneezed at 2:41 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by timsneezed at 2:41 PM on July 11, 2012
I am wary of the longevity of any relationship where marriage has not been brought up and discussed within two years. I wouldn't break off a relationship (or tell a friend to break it off) because it's been more than two years with no ring (not everyone WANTS marriage), but really, you're past the two year mark. Drop him.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 3:29 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 3:29 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
You can't have any sleepovers because your dogs don't get along? Not buying it.
He pretty clearly told you he wants to continue this kind of casual dating you're doing, and he doesn't even want to think about merging your lives more -- three years in. You clearly want more than that. I would listen to what he is telling you. But failing that, have a serious and explicit conversation about where things are going and what you both want out of a relationship/this relationship, and do not pull any punches.
posted by J. Wilson at 4:22 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
He pretty clearly told you he wants to continue this kind of casual dating you're doing, and he doesn't even want to think about merging your lives more -- three years in. You clearly want more than that. I would listen to what he is telling you. But failing that, have a serious and explicit conversation about where things are going and what you both want out of a relationship/this relationship, and do not pull any punches.
posted by J. Wilson at 4:22 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have been the other guy in a similar situation.
When my 3-month girlfriend would ask questions like yours, I would say something similar to what he said. It was absolutely not a lie. I was telling her as clearly as I could, "no!"
OK, that's a rationalization. I enjoyed dating her. I didn't want to break up. But I absolutely had no plans to marry her. I told her that when she'd ask. Not in so many words, but by straightforwardly saying "Nice things are nice, why mess them up?", or "Why change what is working?", or even (once) "Ahh, I'm not sure I'm interested in marriage with anyone." I didn't feel (and still don't feel) that it is any moral failing on my part to proactively break up just because she refused to understand my position.
Here's my attitude:
There's honesty and then there's messing up a good thing. If I am being honest, telling her I am not interested in changing the relationship, then I've done my part.
It is unreasonable, in my view, to take it to the next level after a simple question like yours in a casual dating relationship (completely ignoring months/years spent dating, as irrelevant). Why would I ever want to tell the other partner "No, and because you are interested in changing things, I'm breaking up because we don't want the same things." That's on you, hearing my honest words.
Why should I (or he) do that in a similar situation? I'm getting what I want, a fun casual girlfriend, and I'm even being straightforwardly honest, as I generally strive to be. If you choose to continue that relationship, even after I've been honest and straight with you, then I've got no guilt about it, and will continue as I have been.
In summary, he's telling you the truth, he doesn't want what you want, and yes that is a deal-breaker, at least for me if the roles were reversed.
posted by Invoke at 6:03 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
When my 3-month girlfriend would ask questions like yours, I would say something similar to what he said. It was absolutely not a lie. I was telling her as clearly as I could, "no!"
OK, that's a rationalization. I enjoyed dating her. I didn't want to break up. But I absolutely had no plans to marry her. I told her that when she'd ask. Not in so many words, but by straightforwardly saying "Nice things are nice, why mess them up?", or "Why change what is working?", or even (once) "Ahh, I'm not sure I'm interested in marriage with anyone." I didn't feel (and still don't feel) that it is any moral failing on my part to proactively break up just because she refused to understand my position.
Here's my attitude:
There's honesty and then there's messing up a good thing. If I am being honest, telling her I am not interested in changing the relationship, then I've done my part.
It is unreasonable, in my view, to take it to the next level after a simple question like yours in a casual dating relationship (completely ignoring months/years spent dating, as irrelevant). Why would I ever want to tell the other partner "No, and because you are interested in changing things, I'm breaking up because we don't want the same things." That's on you, hearing my honest words.
Why should I (or he) do that in a similar situation? I'm getting what I want, a fun casual girlfriend, and I'm even being straightforwardly honest, as I generally strive to be. If you choose to continue that relationship, even after I've been honest and straight with you, then I've got no guilt about it, and will continue as I have been.
In summary, he's telling you the truth, he doesn't want what you want, and yes that is a deal-breaker, at least for me if the roles were reversed.
posted by Invoke at 6:03 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
A very, very painful lesson to learn is "believe people when they tell you things".
I cannot possibly second this hard enough. People will almost always tell you the truth about themselves, one way or another. Learn to listen for it and believe it when they do, and life gets a lot easier to navigate!
posted by 168 at 7:30 PM on July 11, 2012
I cannot possibly second this hard enough. People will almost always tell you the truth about themselves, one way or another. Learn to listen for it and believe it when they do, and life gets a lot easier to navigate!
posted by 168 at 7:30 PM on July 11, 2012
It is unreasonable, in my view, to take it to the next level after a simple question like yours in a casual dating relationship (completely ignoring months/years spent dating, as irrelevant). Why would I ever want to tell the other partner "No, and because you are interested in changing things, I'm breaking up because we don't want the same things." That's on you, hearing my honest words.
The issue with that is when you say "Nice things are nice" or "Why change things" or "Ahh, I'm not sure I'm interested in marriage" is they aren't terribly direct. The partner interested in something long-term doesn't hear "I don't want marriage", they hear the equivocation in those words. The "Maybe maybe maybe maybe if things keep going well". Then you get situations like the OP's, where she's got a lot of hope that those words means he needs a little more time, not that he's not interested, period.
OP, your guy is likely to never directly say to you "If you're looking for marriage, you won't find it with me" because he knows that would mean the relationship would end. So you have to ask the question yourself.
posted by Anonymous at 8:46 AM on July 12, 2012
The issue with that is when you say "Nice things are nice" or "Why change things" or "Ahh, I'm not sure I'm interested in marriage" is they aren't terribly direct. The partner interested in something long-term doesn't hear "I don't want marriage", they hear the equivocation in those words. The "Maybe maybe maybe maybe if things keep going well". Then you get situations like the OP's, where she's got a lot of hope that those words means he needs a little more time, not that he's not interested, period.
OP, your guy is likely to never directly say to you "If you're looking for marriage, you won't find it with me" because he knows that would mean the relationship would end. So you have to ask the question yourself.
posted by Anonymous at 8:46 AM on July 12, 2012
Write a paragraph about what you want from a relationship. Seriously! It'll help to see it written out, plus, the act of writing it down will help to clarify. In many ways, you've already done that with this question. Write it out in one paragraph.
Next, take that paragraph and write it again, this time as one sentence.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
It's easy to get lost in a sea of variables and snowflake details. We all do it. The goal here is to let go of those and get to the root of what you want. For example:
"I want marriage."
Sure, you probably want a ton of other stuff too, as we all do, but is that the root of what's going on?
Narrow it down to specifically what you want. Then ask: "Is he THAT man?"
I had a relationship years ago that made me happy for all kinds of reasons, but also made me unhappy because it wasn't leading to the life I wanted. All of the little happy details of our relationship kept us together for longer than we should have been because, in the end, we didn't REALLY want the same things for the future. I didn't see it until I let go of the details and got to the question of "What do I want?" (my shortened sentence was "I want a mostly car-free life." It really is THAT important to me.) When I saw what I'd written, I realized she and I weren't headed in the same direction at all. We were just in a temporary happiness that couldn't last.
Write it down. Clarity will help.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:15 PM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Next, take that paragraph and write it again, this time as one sentence.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
Now take that sentence and simplify it. Write it again. Make it shorter.
It's easy to get lost in a sea of variables and snowflake details. We all do it. The goal here is to let go of those and get to the root of what you want. For example:
"I want marriage."
Sure, you probably want a ton of other stuff too, as we all do, but is that the root of what's going on?
Narrow it down to specifically what you want. Then ask: "Is he THAT man?"
I had a relationship years ago that made me happy for all kinds of reasons, but also made me unhappy because it wasn't leading to the life I wanted. All of the little happy details of our relationship kept us together for longer than we should have been because, in the end, we didn't REALLY want the same things for the future. I didn't see it until I let go of the details and got to the question of "What do I want?" (my shortened sentence was "I want a mostly car-free life." It really is THAT important to me.) When I saw what I'd written, I realized she and I weren't headed in the same direction at all. We were just in a temporary happiness that couldn't last.
Write it down. Clarity will help.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:15 PM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
He doesn't want to get married. He doesn't want to merge lives. He doesn't want to see you during the week.
Move on.
posted by dgeiser13 at 12:10 PM on July 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Move on.
posted by dgeiser13 at 12:10 PM on July 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
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Of course, you should discuss whether or not he has any interest in marriage with him before making up your mind.
posted by Grither at 7:06 AM on July 11, 2012 [12 favorites]