How do I bring up an issue when I'm not even certain about its root?
June 25, 2012 2:40 PM Subscribe
How do I bring up a relationship issue when I'm not even certain about its root?
I've been dating my wonderful man for about a year now, when something occurred that sent me into an anxiety-filled doubt spiral. Now I can't seem to shake it, and I'm wondering whether the problem is mine, his, ours, and how to handle this and move forward.
What happened is this: boyfriend got drunk as a skunk one day at a celebration and drove home. I was angry, and told him so, and told him to call me next time instead of driving. He doesn't have a habit of doing this. Also, he's a moderate drinker who likes to get drunk now and again at events and such.
• Why this may be *his* problem: despite his moderate drinking, he has a bit of a history... he got in trouble because of alcohol as a teen, and again as a college student. He was a big partier back then, and has calmed a bit in the years since, but is still pretty susceptible to peer pressures.
• Why this may be *my* problem: That incident was a few weeks ago, yet I cannot get it out of my head. I think about it and worry about it very often - but only when I'm not with him, because he's so adorable and fun I just forget about it when we're together. I'm mostly worried about whether or not I should see this as a red flag or as a forgivable human error, or what? Is it indicative of a lack of self-control that is going to come around and screw me and/or him later? I don't know, and his history points to "maybe." Part of the worry comes from the fact that I spent my mid twenties to early 30s in a relationship that didn't last, and now I'm so afraid of ending up in something doomed that my "flight" instincts are kicking in. I love this man dearly and want things to work out for us, but I'm afraid I'll overlook warning signs in order to make things work only to have it all fall apart five years from now.
So, I'm confused. I don't know how to bring this up or what to ask for or say. I've already expressed my disappointment about the event and requested an action (call me next time). I don't know whether my deeper issues are ones I need to work out on my own. I don't want to worry him or make him paranoid, and I really don't want to set up a situation where he'll just end up lying next time. I've already told him I've been dealing with anxiety spirals lately, too. So, what to do?
I've been dating my wonderful man for about a year now, when something occurred that sent me into an anxiety-filled doubt spiral. Now I can't seem to shake it, and I'm wondering whether the problem is mine, his, ours, and how to handle this and move forward.
What happened is this: boyfriend got drunk as a skunk one day at a celebration and drove home. I was angry, and told him so, and told him to call me next time instead of driving. He doesn't have a habit of doing this. Also, he's a moderate drinker who likes to get drunk now and again at events and such.
• Why this may be *his* problem: despite his moderate drinking, he has a bit of a history... he got in trouble because of alcohol as a teen, and again as a college student. He was a big partier back then, and has calmed a bit in the years since, but is still pretty susceptible to peer pressures.
• Why this may be *my* problem: That incident was a few weeks ago, yet I cannot get it out of my head. I think about it and worry about it very often - but only when I'm not with him, because he's so adorable and fun I just forget about it when we're together. I'm mostly worried about whether or not I should see this as a red flag or as a forgivable human error, or what? Is it indicative of a lack of self-control that is going to come around and screw me and/or him later? I don't know, and his history points to "maybe." Part of the worry comes from the fact that I spent my mid twenties to early 30s in a relationship that didn't last, and now I'm so afraid of ending up in something doomed that my "flight" instincts are kicking in. I love this man dearly and want things to work out for us, but I'm afraid I'll overlook warning signs in order to make things work only to have it all fall apart five years from now.
So, I'm confused. I don't know how to bring this up or what to ask for or say. I've already expressed my disappointment about the event and requested an action (call me next time). I don't know whether my deeper issues are ones I need to work out on my own. I don't want to worry him or make him paranoid, and I really don't want to set up a situation where he'll just end up lying next time. I've already told him I've been dealing with anxiety spirals lately, too. So, what to do?
Is your question really "how to bring this up?" Because there's not much point of bringing up a problem you've encountered if you already know the answer. That's the point of the discussion. Maybe your answer is, "write out how I feel in an ask.mefi post, and then use that exercise as an outline of discussion points when I bring this up w the bf"
People do fuck up and misjudge their ability to drive after drinking. There's a huge difference between doing it consciously and callously and repeatedly, and fucking up one time. I had a narrow miss with a drunk driver this weekend that scared the shit out of me, and has definitely lowered my personal flag-level after drinking. Emphasize your offer to always DD...
posted by MangyCarface at 2:46 PM on June 25, 2012
People do fuck up and misjudge their ability to drive after drinking. There's a huge difference between doing it consciously and callously and repeatedly, and fucking up one time. I had a narrow miss with a drunk driver this weekend that scared the shit out of me, and has definitely lowered my personal flag-level after drinking. Emphasize your offer to always DD...
posted by MangyCarface at 2:46 PM on June 25, 2012
What did he say to you when you asked him to call you the next time it happened? Did he do anything to reassure you that it wouldn't happen again? Was he dismissive? Cooperative? Equally concerned? You left this part out. I think it would help us understand if your relationship dynamic contributes to your anxiety about the relationship.
posted by rhythm and booze at 2:54 PM on June 25, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by rhythm and booze at 2:54 PM on June 25, 2012 [9 favorites]
I think the best cure for the anxiety is to talk to him directly about it instead of hinting around or being fearful. If it's a good relationship and he cares for you, you should be able to air what's on your mind. Perhaps you need him to commit to a plan for not driving drunk again? Maybe you will be soothed if he promises to call you or a cab with no excuses. Something like, "I'm just having so much anxiety over the drunk driving incident. I'm sorry to bring it up again, but I think I need to feel like we have a plan for dealing with this so I can be at ease."
Also, you are not overreacting. What he is doing is so stupid, I just can't stand it. Drunk driving is dumb for a lot of reasons, but the big one for me is going to jail and being humiliated. I used to work in a jail, I pretty much swore off ever driving drunk at all because of how sad it was to see the people arrested for drunk driving. They were handcuffed to the wall and usually slumped over, crying. There's also the thousands of dollars in fees to contend with and a permanent stain on your record. All for something that is completely avoidable.
So I say you're not overreacting, and talk to him.
posted by amodelcitizen at 2:57 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, you are not overreacting. What he is doing is so stupid, I just can't stand it. Drunk driving is dumb for a lot of reasons, but the big one for me is going to jail and being humiliated. I used to work in a jail, I pretty much swore off ever driving drunk at all because of how sad it was to see the people arrested for drunk driving. They were handcuffed to the wall and usually slumped over, crying. There's also the thousands of dollars in fees to contend with and a permanent stain on your record. All for something that is completely avoidable.
So I say you're not overreacting, and talk to him.
posted by amodelcitizen at 2:57 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't drive while drinking, nor will I get in a car with anyone under the influence. I PLAN to drink or not drink at events based on transportation.
Dump this guy. He's not responsible. This is a maturity issue, and a safety issue, too.
Yes. He sounds like someone with a drinking problem, too.
Drop him. Move on to someone you can trust with your life, and the lives of others, like your future children.
This guy is not marriage material. It sounds like this persistent issue of his concerning alcohol is a persistent and permanent feature of his life.
Only stay with him if you are OK with the problems that arise from problem drinking.
I think your gut is spot-on. Listen to it.
posted by jbenben at 3:02 PM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]
Dump this guy. He's not responsible. This is a maturity issue, and a safety issue, too.
Yes. He sounds like someone with a drinking problem, too.
Drop him. Move on to someone you can trust with your life, and the lives of others, like your future children.
This guy is not marriage material. It sounds like this persistent issue of his concerning alcohol is a persistent and permanent feature of his life.
Only stay with him if you are OK with the problems that arise from problem drinking.
I think your gut is spot-on. Listen to it.
posted by jbenben at 3:02 PM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]
Why this may be *my* problem: That incident was a few weeks ago, yet I cannot get it out of my head.
It's one thing to try and let go of a single-event mistake. It's quite another to ask yourself to pretend you can't see a long-term trend of mistakes. You can't let go of it because you're not stupid, not because there's something wrong with you.
In general, you bring up stuff like this by talking about feelings, not stories or judgements. This sort of event makes you profoundly uncomfortable, and is profoundly not okay as a regular part of any life you can stomach spending with him. If you can work together to make sure it doesn't happen again, then that is when you can start loosening up on the anxiety and try building trust again. If he minimizes your concerns and resists change, then you have a real problem, BUT it's not a problem of him being a "bad" guy; it's a problem of you not being willing to live like this.
posted by jon1270 at 3:02 PM on June 25, 2012
It's one thing to try and let go of a single-event mistake. It's quite another to ask yourself to pretend you can't see a long-term trend of mistakes. You can't let go of it because you're not stupid, not because there's something wrong with you.
In general, you bring up stuff like this by talking about feelings, not stories or judgements. This sort of event makes you profoundly uncomfortable, and is profoundly not okay as a regular part of any life you can stomach spending with him. If you can work together to make sure it doesn't happen again, then that is when you can start loosening up on the anxiety and try building trust again. If he minimizes your concerns and resists change, then you have a real problem, BUT it's not a problem of him being a "bad" guy; it's a problem of you not being willing to live like this.
posted by jon1270 at 3:02 PM on June 25, 2012
Aside from this single incident, nothing in his post-student drinking behaviour seems to indicate he has a drinking problem:
He doesn't have a habit of doing this. Also, he's a moderate drinker who likes to get drunk now and again at events and such.
However, I have some questions:
boyfriend got drunk as a skunk one day at a celebration and drove home. I was angry, and told him so, and told him to call me next time instead of driving.
1) What did he say when you confronted him about this?
2) How old are both of you, ie how long ago were his college days / last problem drinking period?
3) How frequent are these "events and such" at which he likes to get drunk?
posted by DarlingBri at 3:11 PM on June 25, 2012
He doesn't have a habit of doing this. Also, he's a moderate drinker who likes to get drunk now and again at events and such.
However, I have some questions:
boyfriend got drunk as a skunk one day at a celebration and drove home. I was angry, and told him so, and told him to call me next time instead of driving.
1) What did he say when you confronted him about this?
2) How old are both of you, ie how long ago were his college days / last problem drinking period?
3) How frequent are these "events and such" at which he likes to get drunk?
posted by DarlingBri at 3:11 PM on June 25, 2012
I'm a little confused - you ask for help bringing this up, but it sounds like you already did. I think the only thing to do here is to give it a little time and see if it happens again. If it doesn't, then there's no problem. Drunk driving is not ok, obviously, but people make mistakes all the time, and it would be a pretty big overreaction to dump him on the basis of this one incident. You say he doesn't have a habit of doing this, so it seems like the only solution is to let some time pass to reassure yourself that this was a one-time thing.
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:47 PM on June 25, 2012
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:47 PM on June 25, 2012
Consider attending a local meeting of AlAnon, a group for people who are related to or otherwise involved with alcoholics.
posted by mareli at 4:09 PM on June 25, 2012
posted by mareli at 4:09 PM on June 25, 2012
It sounds like you didn't get the resolution you wanted when you guys discussed it at the time of the incident. Was he not as concerned as you were, i.e. you think he might do it again because it's not that big a deal to him? Or did you feel like his reaction was fine but you weren't sure he had the strength to stick to it the plan? Or was his reaction fine but still insufficient because deep down in your heart you don't trust him because of other things, not just this incident?
In any case - it's fine to bring it up. You're anxious, and it's because of something he did. I'd first try to figure out what you want him to do or say to make things better; and then bring it up so he can do those things.
With regard to the DTMFA suggestions... if it really was just this one incident, I don't think it makes sense to dump him as a punishment. But if your gut is telling you that this incident wasn't isolated, that's a different thing.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:13 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
In any case - it's fine to bring it up. You're anxious, and it's because of something he did. I'd first try to figure out what you want him to do or say to make things better; and then bring it up so he can do those things.
With regard to the DTMFA suggestions... if it really was just this one incident, I don't think it makes sense to dump him as a punishment. But if your gut is telling you that this incident wasn't isolated, that's a different thing.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:13 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just a bit of info you might use when bringing this up with him - a DUI can cost as much as $50k to clear up, especially if there is an accident involved. This is not a minor issue.
posted by johngumbo at 4:20 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by johngumbo at 4:20 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
How do I bring up an issue when I'm not even certain about its root?
Why do you need to know the roots of a problem before talking about the problem?
You bring up an issue in order to get to the root of it.
posted by space_cookie at 4:21 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Why do you need to know the roots of a problem before talking about the problem?
You bring up an issue in order to get to the root of it.
posted by space_cookie at 4:21 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
fingersandtoes has it: I'm wondering if the reason you're still feeling anxiety is because of the way he has dealt with this/responded to your requests. You don't mention at all how he feels about this and what he said after the fact; I think it's making it difficult for commenters to get an accurate picture of the situation and help you with your reaction.
If my husband drove while drunk, it would be an incredibly big deal. I would expect him to be pretty freaked out that he had such a serious lapse in judgement, and for him to talk to me about it. I would expect him to reassure me that it wouldn't happen again (and mean it), and there would probably be the need for a series of discussions about alcohol and the role it plays in our lives.
posted by Specklet at 4:41 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
If my husband drove while drunk, it would be an incredibly big deal. I would expect him to be pretty freaked out that he had such a serious lapse in judgement, and for him to talk to me about it. I would expect him to reassure me that it wouldn't happen again (and mean it), and there would probably be the need for a series of discussions about alcohol and the role it plays in our lives.
posted by Specklet at 4:41 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
If this is a recurrent issue, can you relocate somewhere that allows for stumbling home from drinking, without needing a car? That makes a huge difference for all concerned. Dense city, someplace with transit, etc. Just another way that a roadblock could be worked around, if the desire is there...
posted by acm at 4:49 PM on June 25, 2012
posted by acm at 4:49 PM on June 25, 2012
Mod note: From the OP:
Since some of you have been asking about his response, I think it's probably correct to say that I didn't get the resolution I was hoping for. When I talked to him about it, he was still drunk, though he remembers the conversation and resolution clearly (I asked later). He was apologetic, but he also blamed his actions on his susceptibility to peer pressure. I guess I need more reassurance that this won't happen again, and he needs to know what the stakes are: I can't handle a repeat. FWIW, we're in our early 30s.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:49 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll bring it up again. I'm not going to dump him after this one incident, but I need to talk it out. It's a little complicated right now because we're in separate states this week and then we're on vacation, so timing sucks.
He doesn't have a habit of doing this. ..... he has a bit of a history... he got in trouble because of alcohol as a teen, and again as a college student
....sounds like a habit to me. I think the question is not "how do I bring this up" but "how can I cope with an alcoholic?" Do you want to stay with your bf knowing his drinking problems, or not?
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 4:50 PM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
....sounds like a habit to me. I think the question is not "how do I bring this up" but "how can I cope with an alcoholic?" Do you want to stay with your bf knowing his drinking problems, or not?
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 4:50 PM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
I guess I need more reassurance that this won't happen again, and he needs to know what the stakes are: I can't handle a repeat. FWIW, we're in our early 30s.
That sounds reasonable. I think you probably made a mistake having a conversation with him about it while he was still drunk, and you should acknowledge that when you bring it up again, as well as make it explicit why you are bringing it up and what the conversation is meant to achieve (so that he doesn't feel you're going to keep talking about it forever, no matter what he says or does).
It sounds like his college years were six-ten years ago, and I would consider his alcohol habits from back then almost irrelevant, although his opinion today of what he did back then might be relevant (say he drove drunk back then, does he now say it was no big deal, or that it was a stupid habit?). They certainly shouldn't be used as evidence for him now having 'a habit' of anything.
posted by jacalata at 4:56 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
That sounds reasonable. I think you probably made a mistake having a conversation with him about it while he was still drunk, and you should acknowledge that when you bring it up again, as well as make it explicit why you are bringing it up and what the conversation is meant to achieve (so that he doesn't feel you're going to keep talking about it forever, no matter what he says or does).
It sounds like his college years were six-ten years ago, and I would consider his alcohol habits from back then almost irrelevant, although his opinion today of what he did back then might be relevant (say he drove drunk back then, does he now say it was no big deal, or that it was a stupid habit?). They certainly shouldn't be used as evidence for him now having 'a habit' of anything.
posted by jacalata at 4:56 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
blamed his actions on his susceptibility to peer pressure.
Game over.
Drinking and driving is such an incredibly dangerous thing that going to an event, experiencing the beginning of peer pressure, starting to drink, and not arranging transportation is a very bad sign.
He knows he is 'susceptible.' If you were my best friend I would urge you to leave this guy, because you, your assets, and anything in the path of his drunken driving are not safe. Seriously, if you marry this man, and he kills or maims someone, you could lose everything, and maybe he'd die too.
Go now. Not as punishment to him, but for our safety and sanity, and because you deserve a partner who takes drunk driving as seriously as you do. Drinking and driving is not an acceptable course of action, not even in a zombie apocalypse.
Also, who needs friends who pressure you to drink more than they want? Seriously, those aren't friends, they are drinking buddies!
posted by bilabial at 5:00 PM on June 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
Game over.
Drinking and driving is such an incredibly dangerous thing that going to an event, experiencing the beginning of peer pressure, starting to drink, and not arranging transportation is a very bad sign.
He knows he is 'susceptible.' If you were my best friend I would urge you to leave this guy, because you, your assets, and anything in the path of his drunken driving are not safe. Seriously, if you marry this man, and he kills or maims someone, you could lose everything, and maybe he'd die too.
Go now. Not as punishment to him, but for our safety and sanity, and because you deserve a partner who takes drunk driving as seriously as you do. Drinking and driving is not an acceptable course of action, not even in a zombie apocalypse.
Also, who needs friends who pressure you to drink more than they want? Seriously, those aren't friends, they are drinking buddies!
posted by bilabial at 5:00 PM on June 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hmm. Do you have other experience with alcoholics in your life besides him? Sadly, I know so many people who routinely drive drunk that all I can say is they WON'T, I repeat WON'T, stop doing it just for the asking. If this is a problem--and you have no other experience with drunks--then think long and hard about how much this is worth to you. Long and hard.
posted by skbw at 5:03 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by skbw at 5:03 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
What exactly do you want, here? Do you want him to say "this wont happen again?" Because he will say that - even diluted by "peer pressure" and booze, he knows what he did was wrong. You're tapping a newspaper on his nose, of course he's gonna act like a good puppy.
But I think what you really want is to believe him when he says that. And I think that will depend largely on him (and his response to your re-addressing it while both parties are sober) and his future actions.
Now, if he has a clear pattern of irresponsible, reckless, or just impulsive behavior, that's a bit different.
posted by sm1tten at 5:03 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
But I think what you really want is to believe him when he says that. And I think that will depend largely on him (and his response to your re-addressing it while both parties are sober) and his future actions.
Now, if he has a clear pattern of irresponsible, reckless, or just impulsive behavior, that's a bit different.
posted by sm1tten at 5:03 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Deleted the most relevant part of my first sentence.
"If he says this again, when he's not drunk, for me this would be Game Over."
So. Tell him you want to talk about what happened, so that you can understand it.
If he's hostile or dismissive or blames anyone other than himself, I would consider that a very large red flag.
posted by bilabial at 5:04 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
"If he says this again, when he's not drunk, for me this would be Game Over."
So. Tell him you want to talk about what happened, so that you can understand it.
If he's hostile or dismissive or blames anyone other than himself, I would consider that a very large red flag.
posted by bilabial at 5:04 PM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I disagree with the people here who claim he is an alcoholic, but this kind of mistake can no longer be chalked up to youthful indiscretions, and it's important for him to be able to explain to you exactly why and how this will never happen again.
posted by hermitosis at 5:25 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 5:25 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I drove while intoxicated because of peer pressure" is the kind of BS that teenagers do. Not grown-ass men in their thirties. Seriously. A man his age ought to know better.
Driving while drunk is stupid, dangerous, and illegal. If he does it again he could kill someone, go to jail on vehicular homicide charges, and live with the guilt and a criminal record for the rest of his life. As his wife, your life will be entwined with his. This means - you could lose your house if he drives drunk and injures/kills someone. You could find yourself with a felon for a husband - someone who can't vote and will have a very hard time finding work.
I would have been ready to say "if he's sincerely contrite, and vows to never do it again" then that's a good sign that he's basically OK. But peer pressure? With a thirty-year-old? If he cited "peer pressure" as a reason to, say, wear cargo shorts and flip-flops to a Christmas party, I'd laugh and say okay, whatever. But "I drove drunk because I couldn't say 'no' to my friends egging me on?" This is not something a grown man should say.
I would take that as a HUGE bright red flag.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:58 PM on June 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
Driving while drunk is stupid, dangerous, and illegal. If he does it again he could kill someone, go to jail on vehicular homicide charges, and live with the guilt and a criminal record for the rest of his life. As his wife, your life will be entwined with his. This means - you could lose your house if he drives drunk and injures/kills someone. You could find yourself with a felon for a husband - someone who can't vote and will have a very hard time finding work.
I would have been ready to say "if he's sincerely contrite, and vows to never do it again" then that's a good sign that he's basically OK. But peer pressure? With a thirty-year-old? If he cited "peer pressure" as a reason to, say, wear cargo shorts and flip-flops to a Christmas party, I'd laugh and say okay, whatever. But "I drove drunk because I couldn't say 'no' to my friends egging me on?" This is not something a grown man should say.
I would take that as a HUGE bright red flag.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:58 PM on June 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
If the only real conversation you ever had with him about the incident was while he was still drunk, then I certainly understand why you're still feeling anxious about it. He needs to fully own up to his mistake and make a commitment to working through his peer-pressure/drinking issues while sober. How he reacts to you bringing it up will speak volumes. Will he take responsibility for his actions? Or will he minimize the gravity of driving home drunk and deflect blame? Everyone makes mistakes, but a person's true character is defined by how they deal with the aftermath.
Please don't doubt your feelings about this. If my husband drove home drunk, I would be heartbroken. I'd be so angry and hurt that he put others, himself, and me at risk for potentially devastating consequences. I'd be so disappointed that he, a grown ass man, couldn't be trusted to handle himself. You seem unsure of whether or not you have any right to feel the way you do. Well, you really do. I think you can tell by the majority of the responses in this thread that a lot of people would take this very, very seriously.
It's particularly concerning that he cites peer pressure as the reason for getting too drunk. Does he have low self-esteem? Does he feel the need to keep up with and impress others? Does he have trouble saying no to people? Does he feel shy or awkward in social situations, and drink so he can relax and have fun? Does he feel better about himself (cooler, funnier, etc.) when he's had a few? If the reason for his drinking is deeply innate, I would ask that he see a counsellor or therapist to deal with those issues, and abstain from drinking socially in the meantime. At 30-something years old, he should be well past this kind of thing, especially since it sounds like he had plenty of experience with alcohol in his teens and 20's.
You could find yourself with a felon for a husband - someone who can't vote and will have a very hard time finding work.
I'd like to add that even a misdemeanor drunk driving conviction could have serious consequences. For example, I work in the field of Canadian immigration law, and people call up all the time flabbergasted that they were turned away by Canadian border officers because of an old DUI. Sometimes they're on holiday, and they've taken time off work, booked flights and hotels, booked tours. Sometimes they're coming to attend a wedding or a funeral. Sometimes they need to visit a sick or dying relative and there isn't much time left. Sometimes they've been hired for a new job in Canada, and have driven their whole family and a moving truck up with them. So, if your future husband ends up with a criminal record, even a minor one, there are several countries besides Canada that will bar him from entering.
Don't let anyone tell you a DUI is no big deal. It is a big deal, one that can have expensive and very embarrassing or distressing consequences that you might not see coming.
posted by keep it under cover at 7:27 PM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]
Please don't doubt your feelings about this. If my husband drove home drunk, I would be heartbroken. I'd be so angry and hurt that he put others, himself, and me at risk for potentially devastating consequences. I'd be so disappointed that he, a grown ass man, couldn't be trusted to handle himself. You seem unsure of whether or not you have any right to feel the way you do. Well, you really do. I think you can tell by the majority of the responses in this thread that a lot of people would take this very, very seriously.
It's particularly concerning that he cites peer pressure as the reason for getting too drunk. Does he have low self-esteem? Does he feel the need to keep up with and impress others? Does he have trouble saying no to people? Does he feel shy or awkward in social situations, and drink so he can relax and have fun? Does he feel better about himself (cooler, funnier, etc.) when he's had a few? If the reason for his drinking is deeply innate, I would ask that he see a counsellor or therapist to deal with those issues, and abstain from drinking socially in the meantime. At 30-something years old, he should be well past this kind of thing, especially since it sounds like he had plenty of experience with alcohol in his teens and 20's.
You could find yourself with a felon for a husband - someone who can't vote and will have a very hard time finding work.
I'd like to add that even a misdemeanor drunk driving conviction could have serious consequences. For example, I work in the field of Canadian immigration law, and people call up all the time flabbergasted that they were turned away by Canadian border officers because of an old DUI. Sometimes they're on holiday, and they've taken time off work, booked flights and hotels, booked tours. Sometimes they're coming to attend a wedding or a funeral. Sometimes they need to visit a sick or dying relative and there isn't much time left. Sometimes they've been hired for a new job in Canada, and have driven their whole family and a moving truck up with them. So, if your future husband ends up with a criminal record, even a minor one, there are several countries besides Canada that will bar him from entering.
Don't let anyone tell you a DUI is no big deal. It is a big deal, one that can have expensive and very embarrassing or distressing consequences that you might not see coming.
posted by keep it under cover at 7:27 PM on June 25, 2012 [6 favorites]
I believe you that he is wonderful and you love him. However, the most loving thing you can do is to take this nagging sense that there's trouble here quite seriously.
He might really enjoy drinking and seem to be a social drinker but he has a problem with it. Responsible adults who don't have a drinking problem, don't drive drunk. People who don't have a drinking problem, don't have problems with what they do when they drink. They don't hang out with people who pressure them to get drunk as if they were still frat boys. There are no reasons good enough to excuse driving while drunk. It's alcoholic behavior and it's deadly dangerous. He has been in trouble for drinking at least two prior times in his life that he told you about but I suspect there are a lot more times before this one that you would have considered to be trouble if you were dealing with him that he didn't remember or didn't include. Nothing is easier for an problem drinker than excusing their past drinking.
Part of me wants to tell you that you should leave him now because the odds are so against his believing that he has to do anything so drastic as get help for his drinking problem. But I think any rational adult who had his history with drinking should be alarmed enough about the fact that he did this to seek whatever help is necessary for achieving the aim of never getting drunk again because he already knows that, when drunk, he takes leave of his senses.
This is his problem and he needs to correct it. Whatever you do, do not put yourself into some arrangement where you're watching to see if he drinks too much. I think you already can see that role coming up and it really sucks. It's called enabler and Alanon is full of people who say they became enablers because they really loved their problem drinker and wanted to stay in the relationship thinking they could help work on the problem. Then it became all worry, suspicion, monitoring, covering up, smoothing over, taking over, anger, blame and downhill from there. Don't do that to yourself.
You might think I would try not to be so melodramatic but I am afraid I am not being drastic enough. There is more to fear than an accident or an arrest for driving while intoxicated. I know intimately the stories of many bright, charming, wonderful young people who continued to drink past the point your wonderful man has reached and what followed then, year by sad year, was heartbreak, broken relationships, ruined families, wrecked careers, disgrace, disaster and death. I also know many who stopped drinking and now lead happy and productive lives.
posted by Anitanola at 9:19 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
He might really enjoy drinking and seem to be a social drinker but he has a problem with it. Responsible adults who don't have a drinking problem, don't drive drunk. People who don't have a drinking problem, don't have problems with what they do when they drink. They don't hang out with people who pressure them to get drunk as if they were still frat boys. There are no reasons good enough to excuse driving while drunk. It's alcoholic behavior and it's deadly dangerous. He has been in trouble for drinking at least two prior times in his life that he told you about but I suspect there are a lot more times before this one that you would have considered to be trouble if you were dealing with him that he didn't remember or didn't include. Nothing is easier for an problem drinker than excusing their past drinking.
Part of me wants to tell you that you should leave him now because the odds are so against his believing that he has to do anything so drastic as get help for his drinking problem. But I think any rational adult who had his history with drinking should be alarmed enough about the fact that he did this to seek whatever help is necessary for achieving the aim of never getting drunk again because he already knows that, when drunk, he takes leave of his senses.
This is his problem and he needs to correct it. Whatever you do, do not put yourself into some arrangement where you're watching to see if he drinks too much. I think you already can see that role coming up and it really sucks. It's called enabler and Alanon is full of people who say they became enablers because they really loved their problem drinker and wanted to stay in the relationship thinking they could help work on the problem. Then it became all worry, suspicion, monitoring, covering up, smoothing over, taking over, anger, blame and downhill from there. Don't do that to yourself.
You might think I would try not to be so melodramatic but I am afraid I am not being drastic enough. There is more to fear than an accident or an arrest for driving while intoxicated. I know intimately the stories of many bright, charming, wonderful young people who continued to drink past the point your wonderful man has reached and what followed then, year by sad year, was heartbreak, broken relationships, ruined families, wrecked careers, disgrace, disaster and death. I also know many who stopped drinking and now lead happy and productive lives.
posted by Anitanola at 9:19 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, I'm confused. I don't know how to bring this up or what to ask for or say. I've already expressed my disappointment about the event and requested an action (call me next time).
I don't think "requested an action" is strong enough. I think he needs to promise never to get behind the wheel after drinking, period. He should be arranging transportation before any event where he even might be drinking. He should probably also be getting a drug and alcohol assessment as well. Don't treat this like it's your problem at all. It really doesn't sound like he understands how serious this is.
I think the way you are making this your problem will scream "codependency" or "enabling" to some people. Certainly, if you are talking this way to him, it gives him a change to write it off as your having an issue. Also, "talking it out." I don't know what that means to you; to me it suggests an open-ended discussion where you could end up going around in circles and increase the chance of your appearing to take on some of this burden. It really should be on him at this point.
posted by BibiRose at 4:52 AM on June 26, 2012
I don't think "requested an action" is strong enough. I think he needs to promise never to get behind the wheel after drinking, period. He should be arranging transportation before any event where he even might be drinking. He should probably also be getting a drug and alcohol assessment as well. Don't treat this like it's your problem at all. It really doesn't sound like he understands how serious this is.
I think the way you are making this your problem will scream "codependency" or "enabling" to some people. Certainly, if you are talking this way to him, it gives him a change to write it off as your having an issue. Also, "talking it out." I don't know what that means to you; to me it suggests an open-ended discussion where you could end up going around in circles and increase the chance of your appearing to take on some of this burden. It really should be on him at this point.
posted by BibiRose at 4:52 AM on June 26, 2012
In your shoes, I would say:
"Okay, first I want you to know that I can't stop thinking about that drunk driving thing from the other week. It's been bothering me and bothering me, and I just have to tell you how serious it is to me. For one thing, drunk driving is serious business. You could get huge fines, go to jail -- you could even kill somebody. When we talked about it, you said you did it because of 'peer pressure,' but I can't live with the possibility that you might do something that stupid again because your friends are egging you on. So I just want to tell you, if you do that again, we're going to break up that same day. I won't live with it, full stop.
Second, I have to tell you that this episode makes me worry about your drinking in general. I know you had problems in high school and college, and this makes me wonder if the problem's not really under control yet. We are in our thirties, and I want to feel like we can be adults and plan a life together. How do you feel about your relationship with alcohol? How do you want to live your life? Because we need to be on the same page about this stuff."
posted by feets at 5:26 AM on June 26, 2012 [14 favorites]
"Okay, first I want you to know that I can't stop thinking about that drunk driving thing from the other week. It's been bothering me and bothering me, and I just have to tell you how serious it is to me. For one thing, drunk driving is serious business. You could get huge fines, go to jail -- you could even kill somebody. When we talked about it, you said you did it because of 'peer pressure,' but I can't live with the possibility that you might do something that stupid again because your friends are egging you on. So I just want to tell you, if you do that again, we're going to break up that same day. I won't live with it, full stop.
Second, I have to tell you that this episode makes me worry about your drinking in general. I know you had problems in high school and college, and this makes me wonder if the problem's not really under control yet. We are in our thirties, and I want to feel like we can be adults and plan a life together. How do you feel about your relationship with alcohol? How do you want to live your life? Because we need to be on the same page about this stuff."
posted by feets at 5:26 AM on June 26, 2012 [14 favorites]
His age is a red flag for me. Because being that vulnerable to peer pressure in your thirties is unusual, and it makes me wonder if he is adept at not taking responsibility for himself and instead blaming others, or if he just has really poor boundaries and is chronically unassertive. Either way he would not be an easy person to date. Also his age means it is actually a long time since teenage/college years - he has had at least a decade to get a handle on these problems - if they are resurfacing now despite the fact that he has the support of a girlfriend in his life, it makes me wonder if they ever really went away??
I hate to be suspicious (and I am a cyncial person sometimes) but I would think carefully before getting too stuck on this guy.
posted by EatMyHat at 5:40 AM on June 26, 2012 [3 favorites]
I hate to be suspicious (and I am a cyncial person sometimes) but I would think carefully before getting too stuck on this guy.
posted by EatMyHat at 5:40 AM on June 26, 2012 [3 favorites]
More: you seem pretty worried about his feelings on this topic (you don't want to make him worried or paranoid), but the thing is, he OUGHT to worry about this. I'm not saying DTMFA or that I can see through this green screen that he is a card-carrying out-of-control drunk.
But what I am saying is, driving plastered is like playing Russian roulette, and he OUGHT to be terrified that he did something that stupid, even if his stupid friends love playing Russian roulette and think it's totally aces. And getting plastered and doing stupid shit when you have a multi-decade history of drunken misbehavior is something you also OUGHT to worry about, because it does bring up the "gosh, do I have a problem with alcohol?" question pretty heavily.
It is totally reasonable for you to set your own boundaries about what you will and will not accept in a partner. I have done the "do this and I will dump you, no questions asked" thing twice, once with a partner who had a history of philandering and another time with a substance abuse question. In both cases it worried my partner, but it also made it really clear on what terms our relationship was founded, and I was happy I did it.
Finally, with regards to your anxiety spirals, just remember that you can't read minds or control the future. Maybe this guy will be the man of your life. Maybe you'll break up next month. Maybe you'll stay together ten years and then one of you will convert to Scientology. Maybe an asteroid can hit the earth. YOU CAN'T KNOW! So don't beat yourself up thinking you should be able to read the tea leaves and see whether this guy is going to be The One in five years. All you can do is try and create the situation you want to live in, today.
BONUS: ALCOHOL-RELATED DE-RELIGIFIED 'SERENITY IDEA', POSSIBLY HELPFUL IN THIS SCENARIO: "MAY I HAVE THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, THE COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN, AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE."
posted by feets at 5:43 AM on June 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
But what I am saying is, driving plastered is like playing Russian roulette, and he OUGHT to be terrified that he did something that stupid, even if his stupid friends love playing Russian roulette and think it's totally aces. And getting plastered and doing stupid shit when you have a multi-decade history of drunken misbehavior is something you also OUGHT to worry about, because it does bring up the "gosh, do I have a problem with alcohol?" question pretty heavily.
It is totally reasonable for you to set your own boundaries about what you will and will not accept in a partner. I have done the "do this and I will dump you, no questions asked" thing twice, once with a partner who had a history of philandering and another time with a substance abuse question. In both cases it worried my partner, but it also made it really clear on what terms our relationship was founded, and I was happy I did it.
Finally, with regards to your anxiety spirals, just remember that you can't read minds or control the future. Maybe this guy will be the man of your life. Maybe you'll break up next month. Maybe you'll stay together ten years and then one of you will convert to Scientology. Maybe an asteroid can hit the earth. YOU CAN'T KNOW! So don't beat yourself up thinking you should be able to read the tea leaves and see whether this guy is going to be The One in five years. All you can do is try and create the situation you want to live in, today.
BONUS: ALCOHOL-RELATED DE-RELIGIFIED 'SERENITY IDEA', POSSIBLY HELPFUL IN THIS SCENARIO: "MAY I HAVE THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, THE COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN, AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE."
posted by feets at 5:43 AM on June 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Feets has it. Make it clear this is a line for you. If he does it again, break up with him and follow through. Trust me. I wish I had.
posted by pointystick at 6:43 AM on June 26, 2012
posted by pointystick at 6:43 AM on June 26, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Madamina at 2:43 PM on June 25, 2012 [11 favorites]