now the $6/gallon organic milk isn't good enough either.
June 9, 2012 9:29 PM Subscribe
Gross food safety/parenting issue of the day: I am freaking out about extra estrogen getting into my daughters' diet via cow's milk, as detailed in this article. My family has a propensity towards early puberty anyway and I really don't want to put my daughters at even more risk for this. My toddler drinks a LOT of milk -- she's a fussy eater and it's the only thing she always wants. I buy organic milk, but as far as I know the organic regs do not address the issue of whether the cows are kept pregnant. Do you know of any sources in the SF bay area for milk that isn't from pregnant cows?
Response by poster: Ok not to threadsit but just to clarify: I am not talking about extra hormones given to cows, because I buy organic milk. I'm talking about the estrogen that is naturally, organically, non-additively in the cows because they are kept pregnant.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:35 PM on June 9, 2012
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:35 PM on June 9, 2012
rBGH free milk (pdf).
'Some possible underlying causes of precocious puberty without any known cause are thought to be obesity, social factors, and environmental contamination.'
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:37 PM on June 9, 2012
'Some possible underlying causes of precocious puberty without any known cause are thought to be obesity, social factors, and environmental contamination.'
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:37 PM on June 9, 2012
I drink Almond Breeze unsweetened almond milk. It has the most similar flavor and consistancy to cows milk that I've tried. If the little one is picky, this might work as a substitute.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:37 PM on June 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by DoubleLune at 9:37 PM on June 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ah, I think I misunderstood. +1 to some sort of milk substitute, almond coming as most preferable since soy (debatably -- I've found studies both ways) has a lot of estrogen issues attached as well.
posted by jorlyfish at 9:40 PM on June 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jorlyfish at 9:40 PM on June 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
As I understand it, the reason cows produce the amount of milk they do is because of the continuous pregnancy. Thus all the veal that's a byproduct. It's going to be hard to find a producer that doesn't want to produce milk year round. Even the crunchy granola producers of the raw, grass-fed milk I like still use pregnancy, as far as I know.
posted by wnissen at 9:41 PM on June 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by wnissen at 9:41 PM on June 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
You're listed as in the Bay Area... is it possible to try and seek out some sort of aforementioned crunchy granola dairy farmers to see if any of them only milk during early pregnancy, when the hormone levels are at their lowest? Potentially worth asking around for, but seems like you perhaps wouldn't be able to get year-round milk this way... Still thinking almond milk is worth a good try, but just another $0.02.
posted by jorlyfish at 9:45 PM on June 9, 2012
posted by jorlyfish at 9:45 PM on June 9, 2012
The study suggests that skim milk has lower doses of hormones. There are, of course, compelling reasons (including taste) to give your daughter full-fat milk, but perhaps you can dilute it with skim and compromise in that way. In the Bay Area, St Benoit has recently started producing milk (in addition to their excellent yogurt) - I'd call them and ask about this issue.
posted by judith at 9:49 PM on June 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by judith at 9:49 PM on June 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
The problem is that 90 days after calving, the amount of milk a cow gives starts to decline, and 12-15 months or so after calving, it's nearly completely gone. It's not really economically feasible to have the cow hanging around eating and taking up resources without producing milk, so I don't think you'll have much luck finding much that's commercially available.
posted by KathrynT at 10:00 PM on June 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 10:00 PM on June 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
Basically all cows in a commercial milking string are going to be freshened/calve once a year, organic or conventional. The amount of cow a milk makes a long time after calving is going to drop so much I'm not totally sure how to read this article's claims that Mongolian cows get milked a lot while non-pregnant.
The only way around getting milk from pregnant cows I can imagine is trying to find a dairy that practices seasonal milking: all of the cows would freshen/calve at the same time and all dry up at the same time. That way you could (theoretically) find out when the dairy has their cows calve and only buy milk from the first couple of months, freezing milk for the rest of the year.
Or you could try goat (or, if you can find it, sheep) milk. Most (all?) sheep dairies and many small goat dairies are seasonal.
But - I know this is not what you're asking, but I feel like there are some claims in this article that are kind of questionable. For one thing, it isn't (as far as I can tell) differentiating between what the Mongolian cows and the American cows eat. Are the Mongolian cows all solely on pasture? A lot of American conventional dairies are total-confinement operations where the cows eat a lot of funky stuff. I am prepared to believe that Mongolian vs. American cow milk is different for reasons not necessarily related to evil cow pregnancy hormones and instead related to their different lifestyles.
This is also not what you are asking, but I think that whole cow's milk is a very nutritious food. I very much empathize with the horrible feeling of reading some article and realizing that you have probably poisoned your child by feeding them too much asparagus, but... I don't know, this article kind of pushes some of my skeptical buttons. For one, the rise of various cancers in Japan might be tied to eating more dairy, or it might be tied to the rise in sugar consumption. Similarly, American kids have been consuming whole cow's milk for a long time, and the change of puberty-onset ages is more recent. FWIW, I have as much crazy food anxiety as the next person, and I feed my kid high-fat organic dairy products, and it's one of the things I feel relatively secure about.
I realize this makes it sound like I was sent here by the Weston A. Price foundation, but no.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 10:18 PM on June 9, 2012 [22 favorites]
The only way around getting milk from pregnant cows I can imagine is trying to find a dairy that practices seasonal milking: all of the cows would freshen/calve at the same time and all dry up at the same time. That way you could (theoretically) find out when the dairy has their cows calve and only buy milk from the first couple of months, freezing milk for the rest of the year.
Or you could try goat (or, if you can find it, sheep) milk. Most (all?) sheep dairies and many small goat dairies are seasonal.
But - I know this is not what you're asking, but I feel like there are some claims in this article that are kind of questionable. For one thing, it isn't (as far as I can tell) differentiating between what the Mongolian cows and the American cows eat. Are the Mongolian cows all solely on pasture? A lot of American conventional dairies are total-confinement operations where the cows eat a lot of funky stuff. I am prepared to believe that Mongolian vs. American cow milk is different for reasons not necessarily related to evil cow pregnancy hormones and instead related to their different lifestyles.
This is also not what you are asking, but I think that whole cow's milk is a very nutritious food. I very much empathize with the horrible feeling of reading some article and realizing that you have probably poisoned your child by feeding them too much asparagus, but... I don't know, this article kind of pushes some of my skeptical buttons. For one, the rise of various cancers in Japan might be tied to eating more dairy, or it might be tied to the rise in sugar consumption. Similarly, American kids have been consuming whole cow's milk for a long time, and the change of puberty-onset ages is more recent. FWIW, I have as much crazy food anxiety as the next person, and I feed my kid high-fat organic dairy products, and it's one of the things I feel relatively secure about.
I realize this makes it sound like I was sent here by the Weston A. Price foundation, but no.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 10:18 PM on June 9, 2012 [22 favorites]
Nthing testing out products from the non-dairy milk spectrum to see if any will pass the toddler's taste test. They seem to get better and better year after year.
After a decade or more of finding that most of the soy milks I like are high-carb ones I've found that Walmart generic brand soy milk is one of the best I've had but has fewer grams of carbs than cow's milk does. I actually like it better than most kinds of cow's milk now. It's more expensive than cow's milk but less expensive than the 6$/gallon stuff you mention, I think at my local store it comes in at around $4.50 per gallon.
posted by XMLicious at 11:21 PM on June 9, 2012
After a decade or more of finding that most of the soy milks I like are high-carb ones I've found that Walmart generic brand soy milk is one of the best I've had but has fewer grams of carbs than cow's milk does. I actually like it better than most kinds of cow's milk now. It's more expensive than cow's milk but less expensive than the 6$/gallon stuff you mention, I think at my local store it comes in at around $4.50 per gallon.
posted by XMLicious at 11:21 PM on June 9, 2012
Can you source organic coconut milk?
This might do the trick!
posted by jbenben at 11:25 PM on June 9, 2012
This might do the trick!
posted by jbenben at 11:25 PM on June 9, 2012
If you're worried about estrogen and early onset puberty stay clear of soy milk. Its full of phytoestrogens and excess consumption of soy products (you say she drinks *a lot* of milk) has caused gynecomastia in men/boys.
posted by missmagenta at 11:29 PM on June 9, 2012
posted by missmagenta at 11:29 PM on June 9, 2012
Unsweetened almond milk -- they put so much garbage sugar in it otherwise, HFCS -- and then sweeten it to taste with stevia. It's very tasty and the consistency is nice, it's smooth and thick as half and half.
posted by dancestoblue at 11:49 PM on June 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dancestoblue at 11:49 PM on June 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Some comments deleted. This is not the place for a pro/anti soy milk debate, or rants about the dairy industry.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:20 AM on June 10, 2012
posted by taz (staff) at 5:20 AM on June 10, 2012
Can you get milk delivered from a CSA that doesn't engage in this?
posted by k8t at 5:41 AM on June 10, 2012
posted by k8t at 5:41 AM on June 10, 2012
Seconding a move to switch to goat's milk. Goats have a shorter gestation period and can produce milk for longer between pregnancies, so they aren't pregnant as long or as often as cows. It might be a tricky switch -- goat's milk tastes quite different -- but you can do it. My mom switched me to goat's milk when I was five, and while I remember the first cup tasting bad, I think I adapted fairly quickly.
Also, keep in mind that it is environmental estrogens outside of dairy that you really want to look out for. You won't be able to protect against everything because they exist practically everywhere, but you can try to avoid the things that are avoidable on this list.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 8:57 AM on June 10, 2012
Also, keep in mind that it is environmental estrogens outside of dairy that you really want to look out for. You won't be able to protect against everything because they exist practically everywhere, but you can try to avoid the things that are avoidable on this list.
posted by Felicity Rilke at 8:57 AM on June 10, 2012
The simple solution regarding hormones from the article itself seems to be to buy skim milk instead of whole, emphasis mine:
I know that the long-term effect of environmentally and nutritionally introduced hormones is a new field and there's a lot we don't know yet, but both from this article and briefly educating myself with Wikipedia articles, it doesn't seem like there's much evidence that drinking milk leads to early onset of puberty or other estrogen related problems. And milk has so many health benefits. As mentioned above, I'd focus your energies on worrying about other sources of endocrine disruptors, like plastics and pesticides, rather than milk. Even *cheese* seems like more of a concern than liquid dairy milk (again, from the 30 min of internet reading I've just done...so, armchair nutritionist here).
posted by maryr at 10:12 AM on June 10, 2012
One compared levels of hormones and growth factors in American milk (whole, whole organic, skim milk, and UHT - ultra-high temperature - milk) to milk from Mongolia. Levels were very low in both American skim and in Mongolian milk.That said, I agree it's a bit of an odd article. This paragraph in particular kind of jumps out at me:
"The hormonal effects of milk are very new," said Ganmaa during questions from her Radcliffe audience. Until more research is done, she said, "I'd like to keep our heads low."Huh? Keep their heads low from what? What were the audience questions? It's a strange quote to include. It sounds either paranoid (The dairy industry will silence me!) or unsure (These are only preliminary results, don't quote me on them.). There seem to be a lot of controls not really mentioned (OK, Mongolian children fed American milk showed increased levels of hormones, but Mongolian children drink 1/3 as much milk - did a ready supply of American milk increase the amount of milk they drank?). I can't tell from the article if that's from the speaker or the journalist.
I know that the long-term effect of environmentally and nutritionally introduced hormones is a new field and there's a lot we don't know yet, but both from this article and briefly educating myself with Wikipedia articles, it doesn't seem like there's much evidence that drinking milk leads to early onset of puberty or other estrogen related problems. And milk has so many health benefits. As mentioned above, I'd focus your energies on worrying about other sources of endocrine disruptors, like plastics and pesticides, rather than milk. Even *cheese* seems like more of a concern than liquid dairy milk (again, from the 30 min of internet reading I've just done...so, armchair nutritionist here).
posted by maryr at 10:12 AM on June 10, 2012
From the last article I read on cows and milking, cows are NOT kept continuously pregnant. Saying you need to keep a mammal continuously pregnant just to produce milk is a bit silly - humans lactate for as long as someone asks for their milk, not because they are continually kept pregnant.
Also if memory serves me milk is NOT taken from cows continuously during pregnancy.
The problems we need to worry about with milk (and other foods) is likely the protein amount (when people eat more protein, it tends to trigger more cell division...).
I read an article about this a while ago, all, "OH NOES MILK CAUSES CANCERS!" but it turns out the levels of the cancer-causing agents were not present in notable quantities during the milking - they appeared at some point between the milking and the distribution (perhaps the container had something to do with it).
I will try to find the article I'm referencing about milking cycles....
And honestly, I wouldn't fuss all that much if you're going to give her milk anyway. Humans shouldn't be drinking another animal's milk, period. If you're reeeeeally worried, try to get her off non-human animal milk altogether.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:01 PM on June 10, 2012
Also if memory serves me milk is NOT taken from cows continuously during pregnancy.
The problems we need to worry about with milk (and other foods) is likely the protein amount (when people eat more protein, it tends to trigger more cell division...).
I read an article about this a while ago, all, "OH NOES MILK CAUSES CANCERS!" but it turns out the levels of the cancer-causing agents were not present in notable quantities during the milking - they appeared at some point between the milking and the distribution (perhaps the container had something to do with it).
I will try to find the article I'm referencing about milking cycles....
And honestly, I wouldn't fuss all that much if you're going to give her milk anyway. Humans shouldn't be drinking another animal's milk, period. If you're reeeeeally worried, try to get her off non-human animal milk altogether.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:01 PM on June 10, 2012
(but, bottom-line, it's really going to be her protein intake that determines when she hits puberty, and milk is chock full of proteins
PDF to 2010 Journal of Nutrition Article http://missclasses.com/mp3s/Prize%20CD%202010/Kids/puberty.pdf
)
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:05 PM on June 10, 2012
PDF to 2010 Journal of Nutrition Article http://missclasses.com/mp3s/Prize%20CD%202010/Kids/puberty.pdf
)
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:05 PM on June 10, 2012
Okay, okay, one more thing and then I'll go! From the article I linked to above (because I sound like I'm demonizing all proteins, don't I?):
" Children with a higher total protein intake at [ages 5-6] tended to have an earlier ATO [(Age of Take off of puberty)]. Apparently, animal protein intake... at 5–6 y was responsible for this association.... By contrast, a higher vegetable protein intake ... at age 3–4 y was associated with a later ATO"
If you're worried about her starting puberty early, this would be another reason to get her off the cow's milk and onto a vegetable "milk". Chocolate almond milk is delicious.
Totally going now. XD
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:12 PM on June 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
" Children with a higher total protein intake at [ages 5-6] tended to have an earlier ATO [(Age of Take off of puberty)]. Apparently, animal protein intake... at 5–6 y was responsible for this association.... By contrast, a higher vegetable protein intake ... at age 3–4 y was associated with a later ATO"
If you're worried about her starting puberty early, this would be another reason to get her off the cow's milk and onto a vegetable "milk". Chocolate almond milk is delicious.
Totally going now. XD
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:12 PM on June 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by jorlyfish at 9:33 PM on June 9, 2012