The Most Boring Battle: Battle of the Mid-Price Sedans
May 28, 2012 3:40 PM Subscribe
Car buying time: Civic EX-L Sedan or Mazda3 i Grand Touring Sedan?
We're moving to Minneapolis in a month and want to buy a car. We don't have kids or pets, but may have both before our next car. We've test driven these cars:
- Hyundai Elantra
- Ford Focus
- Mazda3
- Honda Civic
- Toyota Corolla
- Subaru Impreza
and we've narrowed it down to the Civic EX-L sedan and the Mazda3 i Grand Touring sedan. We haven't been able to decide between the two. Has anyone had experience with either? Especially the 2012 Mazda3 with Skyactiv, since it's new and great for mileage, but a bit of an unknown on long term reliability.
We're moving to Minneapolis in a month and want to buy a car. We don't have kids or pets, but may have both before our next car. We've test driven these cars:
- Hyundai Elantra
- Ford Focus
- Mazda3
- Honda Civic
- Toyota Corolla
- Subaru Impreza
and we've narrowed it down to the Civic EX-L sedan and the Mazda3 i Grand Touring sedan. We haven't been able to decide between the two. Has anyone had experience with either? Especially the 2012 Mazda3 with Skyactiv, since it's new and great for mileage, but a bit of an unknown on long term reliability.
I know this is old information, so discount it how you will. I have a 1998 Honda Civic EX and a 2001 Protege 5. I've had no mechanical problems with either beyond normal wear and tear, but not a day goes by when I don't think I'd love to toss the Honda and get another Mazda. Since I work at home, I can't really justify the expense of getting rid of a perfectly running car, no matter how old, but I vastly prefer the Mazda to the Honda for sheer fun-to-driveness.
posted by mollweide at 4:08 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by mollweide at 4:08 PM on May 28, 2012
Like rockindata, I highly recommend a hatchback. Even without kids and pets, they are so practical - think about yard sales, Home Depot runs, camping trips. My husband has a 2003 Mazda3 with nearly 100,000 miles on it and hasn't had a bit of trouble with it other than a slow A/C leak that we've just learned to keep ahead of.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 4:41 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by Sweetie Darling at 4:41 PM on May 28, 2012
Mazda is more of a driving thrill. I think any of the 3 models are the best driving cars in their class, and I rent I that class all he time so I've driven most of the cars on your list in less glamorous versions. SkyActiv is untested but the mileage numbers are amazing, right?
I just rented a brand new 6 this weekend, and it made a Camry seem like a Buick. Sweet ride. Anyone considering Accord or Camry, both fine cars, should drive a Mazda 6 first. Felt like I had my arms around the road at 85.
posted by spitbull at 4:42 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just rented a brand new 6 this weekend, and it made a Camry seem like a Buick. Sweet ride. Anyone considering Accord or Camry, both fine cars, should drive a Mazda 6 first. Felt like I had my arms around the road at 85.
posted by spitbull at 4:42 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll echo the sentiments above, get the mazda3, and get the hatchback. I've driven both the civic and the mazda3 on the same stretches of the 110 freeway (Arroyo Seco Parkway) here in LA, and it gets twisty and bumpy at times, and traffic likes to both hustle and stop suddenly.
I could throw my '71 Triumph TR6 at the stretch of road and easily cruise at 85/90 if there wasn't a lot of traffic. I could do the same in the Mazda with ease. The civic doesn't even have the same handling feel that my '66 land rover does, and the rover is basically a tractor. The honda will wallow through the corners. It's like driving a refrigerator. If you care about driving feel, or having a car that actually responds to what you want it to do, get the mazda.
posted by Bohemia Mountain at 4:53 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
I could throw my '71 Triumph TR6 at the stretch of road and easily cruise at 85/90 if there wasn't a lot of traffic. I could do the same in the Mazda with ease. The civic doesn't even have the same handling feel that my '66 land rover does, and the rover is basically a tractor. The honda will wallow through the corners. It's like driving a refrigerator. If you care about driving feel, or having a car that actually responds to what you want it to do, get the mazda.
posted by Bohemia Mountain at 4:53 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Okay, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with what everyone's saying about the hatchback. I had a real trunk in my last car (Civic) and a hatch now (Insight) and I greatly preferred having the trunk. It's nice to keep things separate, you know? And in the garage I currently have the hatch is constantly hitting the ceiling when I try to get stuff in or out.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:54 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:54 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If the SkyActiv engine makes you apprehensive, get the Civic. If it's not an issue, get the one you like more.
I have a 2012 Mazda 3i Touring (not Grand Touring) hatchback w/ SkyActiv and I love it. I should have been more apprehensive about buying a first generation engine, but it didn't cross my mind until after I bought it. That said, I have no regrets.
My car has had one recall (don't think it was all SkyActiv cars, but it was related to SkyActiv) to reflash some software (fuel injection system). There was an issue with poor acceleration in certain situations. I couldn't really tell the difference before and after. In any case, it was a simple 30 minute dealer visit.
Now the good stuff: I'm a fan of SkyActiv. It's a 6-speed automatic! Great acceleration. Great gas mileage. You can go into manual mode if you want. The car has great handling. And since you'd be getting a Grand Touring, you'd have all the extra goodies. Obviously, I won't know what's going to happen in the long term, but I'm not worried about it.
I don't know now, but last fall, you could still by 2012 Mazda 3s without SkyActiv. Just an option.
I prefered the hatchback to the sedan (duh). It is one of the nicer looking hatchbacks in my opinion (along with the new Ford Focus and Subaru Impreza). The trunk feels quite separate from the cabin, and the extra room is great especially since the 3 is a small car. But if you don't like hatchbacks, you don't like them.
I bet, though, that whichever you get will be a fine car. And whichever you get, you'll wish you got the other one -- for a short period of time anyway.
posted by aloysius on the mixing boards at 5:24 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have a 2012 Mazda 3i Touring (not Grand Touring) hatchback w/ SkyActiv and I love it. I should have been more apprehensive about buying a first generation engine, but it didn't cross my mind until after I bought it. That said, I have no regrets.
My car has had one recall (don't think it was all SkyActiv cars, but it was related to SkyActiv) to reflash some software (fuel injection system). There was an issue with poor acceleration in certain situations. I couldn't really tell the difference before and after. In any case, it was a simple 30 minute dealer visit.
Now the good stuff: I'm a fan of SkyActiv. It's a 6-speed automatic! Great acceleration. Great gas mileage. You can go into manual mode if you want. The car has great handling. And since you'd be getting a Grand Touring, you'd have all the extra goodies. Obviously, I won't know what's going to happen in the long term, but I'm not worried about it.
I don't know now, but last fall, you could still by 2012 Mazda 3s without SkyActiv. Just an option.
I prefered the hatchback to the sedan (duh). It is one of the nicer looking hatchbacks in my opinion (along with the new Ford Focus and Subaru Impreza). The trunk feels quite separate from the cabin, and the extra room is great especially since the 3 is a small car. But if you don't like hatchbacks, you don't like them.
I bet, though, that whichever you get will be a fine car. And whichever you get, you'll wish you got the other one -- for a short period of time anyway.
posted by aloysius on the mixing boards at 5:24 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Wow, awesome feedback, thanks everyone. We actually test drove the Mazda3 hatchback and like it, and then convinced ourselves we didn't need the hatch. Now I'm wondering if we were too hasty in dismissing it.
posted by heliostatic at 5:32 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by heliostatic at 5:32 PM on May 28, 2012
Best answer: I test drove the Mazda 3 a couple of months ago (we ended up buying a Corolla). Make sure you climb into the back seat of the Mazda before making any decisions. The back doors are either narrow, or just located oddly. I had to twist sideways to get in and out, and I'm not a big guy. Once in the backseat, it felt much smaller than the Elantra or Corolla, even though they are all the same size car. Even my 5'1" wife found the backseat of the Mazda 3 to be uncomfortably small. If you have a little one in the future one of you will end up riding in the backseat a lot when the baby is an infant.
I thought the front seat felt small too. That said, it was by far the most fun to drive, and we looked at almost all of the same options you are looking at.
posted by COD at 5:37 PM on May 28, 2012
I thought the front seat felt small too. That said, it was by far the most fun to drive, and we looked at almost all of the same options you are looking at.
posted by COD at 5:37 PM on May 28, 2012
Response by poster: COD, was that in the sedan or the hatchback?
posted by heliostatic at 5:55 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by heliostatic at 5:55 PM on May 28, 2012
Best answer: I have the exact Mazda you're looking at (i GT sedan), with the SkyActiv engine. I drive 140 miles a day for my commute, so fuel-efficiency was really key. I average right at 40 MPG in this car. The vast majority of my miles are open freeway, which makes a difference. I think I get closer to 28-30 in the city. I have already put over 20,000 miles on this car (bought it in November) and have had no problems.
Seconding everything aloysius says about what makes this car great. I spend A LOT of time in my car, and I really love it. Handling is fantastic, and even with the smallish engine, I have no problems getting up to speed or passing on the freeway. The GT is really comfy, and everybody who sets foot in the car is impressed with the interior comfort and finish.
My husband drives a MazdaSPEED 6, and it has been extremely reliable (even after some fairly extensive performance modifications). We have also owned a CX-7, which was great. We had no hesitation getting this car from a reliability standpoint.
I originally thought I wanted a hatchback (agree that it is a great-looking car), but when I did test drives, I found the hatchback harder to see out of than the sedan. Really good visibility was key with so much daily freeway driving, so I compromised on design and got the sedan. I have been really happy with it. I can pack a ton of stuff in the trunk, and with the back seat folded down there is a lot of room. That said, I totally agree that the hatch is awesome.
posted by jeoc at 6:02 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Seconding everything aloysius says about what makes this car great. I spend A LOT of time in my car, and I really love it. Handling is fantastic, and even with the smallish engine, I have no problems getting up to speed or passing on the freeway. The GT is really comfy, and everybody who sets foot in the car is impressed with the interior comfort and finish.
My husband drives a MazdaSPEED 6, and it has been extremely reliable (even after some fairly extensive performance modifications). We have also owned a CX-7, which was great. We had no hesitation getting this car from a reliability standpoint.
I originally thought I wanted a hatchback (agree that it is a great-looking car), but when I did test drives, I found the hatchback harder to see out of than the sedan. Really good visibility was key with so much daily freeway driving, so I compromised on design and got the sedan. I have been really happy with it. I can pack a ton of stuff in the trunk, and with the back seat folded down there is a lot of room. That said, I totally agree that the hatch is awesome.
posted by jeoc at 6:02 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: We have a Mazda3 that Mrs. VTX loves for her commute. Our other car is bigger and gets used for longer trips so we've never needed the hatch. It's a 2007 and we've had no problems with it so far.
I doubt there will be a ton of difference between them but the Mazda is great to drive in the snow. The tires that came on it were just okay for snow (but great in the rain and/or dry) but once we got some better all-season tires on it, it became the go-to vehicle for driving through major snowstorms.
posted by VTX at 6:04 PM on May 28, 2012
I doubt there will be a ton of difference between them but the Mazda is great to drive in the snow. The tires that came on it were just okay for snow (but great in the rain and/or dry) but once we got some better all-season tires on it, it became the go-to vehicle for driving through major snowstorms.
posted by VTX at 6:04 PM on May 28, 2012
You know, the seats ARE small. This is a bonus for me and my husband (who are mid-height slender types - often seats feel too big), but I have noticed that some of my more, um, hefty car guests look uncomfortable. This is not a car for fat people.
I'm 5'8", and I think the back seat is comfortable for short trips. I would not want to take an interstate car trip back there. My 9-year-old child has plenty of room.
posted by jeoc at 6:07 PM on May 28, 2012
I'm 5'8", and I think the back seat is comfortable for short trips. I would not want to take an interstate car trip back there. My 9-year-old child has plenty of room.
posted by jeoc at 6:07 PM on May 28, 2012
Best answer: I have an '07 Civic, which I'm fairly certain was only lightly updated for this model cycle, and I can give it a hearty "meh." It's not bad, it's not great, just sort of mediocre.
What I came in here to say was that I have been disappointed by Honda's recent practices. I had an issue where there was a known defect in the suspension that caused uneven tire wear. The dealer told me of my uneven tire wear at the first service stop after my warranty expired, and told me it would be $400 to replace the parts that were known to be defective (but not a safety risk). I went round-and-round with Honda of America to get them to cover what was documented as a defect, and HoA was rude and uncooperative, but eventually settled with me for $50 out of pocket.
The second issue has been their handling of the Civic Hybrid issue, which I own and about which one can Google for details. In sum, instead of standing behind the hybrid batteries come what may, they hamstrung the system to get ~15% lower gas mileage but protect the battery. My fuel economy went from 50mpg to 42. When they got sued, they offered $200 cash plus a $1500 in coupons toward a new Honda.
After two instances of failing to stand behind their products, why would I buy another Honda, even at $1500 off?
tl;dr - go for the Mazda. I've got friends who love 'em.
posted by OHSnap at 8:55 PM on May 28, 2012
What I came in here to say was that I have been disappointed by Honda's recent practices. I had an issue where there was a known defect in the suspension that caused uneven tire wear. The dealer told me of my uneven tire wear at the first service stop after my warranty expired, and told me it would be $400 to replace the parts that were known to be defective (but not a safety risk). I went round-and-round with Honda of America to get them to cover what was documented as a defect, and HoA was rude and uncooperative, but eventually settled with me for $50 out of pocket.
The second issue has been their handling of the Civic Hybrid issue, which I own and about which one can Google for details. In sum, instead of standing behind the hybrid batteries come what may, they hamstrung the system to get ~15% lower gas mileage but protect the battery. My fuel economy went from 50mpg to 42. When they got sued, they offered $200 cash plus a $1500 in coupons toward a new Honda.
After two instances of failing to stand behind their products, why would I buy another Honda, even at $1500 off?
tl;dr - go for the Mazda. I've got friends who love 'em.
posted by OHSnap at 8:55 PM on May 28, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice everyone. We're going to talk to a Mazda dealer and see what kind of a deal we can get on the 4dr or the hatchback.
posted by heliostatic at 9:30 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by heliostatic at 9:30 PM on May 28, 2012
I also have the Mazda3 Hatchback (grand touring), 2011, and love it.
(aside - a car buying service such as truecar.com is great at these types of deals if you know the model and features you want. Send your details to the website and it hashes the price out with local dealers. Saved us a few thousand dollars)
posted by getawaysticks at 8:29 AM on May 29, 2012
(aside - a car buying service such as truecar.com is great at these types of deals if you know the model and features you want. Send your details to the website and it hashes the price out with local dealers. Saved us a few thousand dollars)
posted by getawaysticks at 8:29 AM on May 29, 2012
Seconding OHSnap's recent experience with Honda. From a second-hand perspective that is.
A friend of mine recently replaced his 10-year-old Honda Accord with a 2012 model. Apparently the seat design of the newer model Accords is defective, and there have been numerous complaints (Just google "honda accord seat problems". The same complaints abound for the 2012 model, which makes it an even more egregious oversight on Honda's part.). Honda refuses to do anything about it.
After only a few weeks of driving, he couldn't deal with the back pain any more. With no help forthcoming from the dealer or Honda corporate, he sold his new Accord at a loss, and bought a Subaru Legacy.
Seems maybe Honda is coasting on their reputation these days...
posted by zen_spider at 10:27 AM on May 29, 2012
A friend of mine recently replaced his 10-year-old Honda Accord with a 2012 model. Apparently the seat design of the newer model Accords is defective, and there have been numerous complaints (Just google "honda accord seat problems". The same complaints abound for the 2012 model, which makes it an even more egregious oversight on Honda's part.). Honda refuses to do anything about it.
After only a few weeks of driving, he couldn't deal with the back pain any more. With no help forthcoming from the dealer or Honda corporate, he sold his new Accord at a loss, and bought a Subaru Legacy.
Seems maybe Honda is coasting on their reputation these days...
posted by zen_spider at 10:27 AM on May 29, 2012
We have that Grand Touring Mazda3 Hatchback, think it is 2009, and it's been a great car. It's so much more fun to drive than you'd expect (and certainly more enjoyable than the Honda + Toyota we tested in the same range).
posted by seventyfour at 1:19 PM on May 29, 2012
posted by seventyfour at 1:19 PM on May 29, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rockindata at 3:52 PM on May 28, 2012 [1 favorite]