Are listening skills that hard to come by?
May 6, 2012 5:42 AM Subscribe
Why is it so hard to remember what I've shared with you on dates 1, 2, 3 and 4?
In my dating experience the number one thing I've encountered that has really prevented a connection being made is that my date - always a male - doesn't remember what we talked about or what I shared on a previous date. I want to understand a little more about this phenomenon, or why men and I'm sure women do this too but am really interested in the male perspective - aren't present or are not really listening - even though they appear to be very interested and attracted to me (and say they are). I've run in to this issue time and time again and it gets me really frustrated - I feel like why in the world am I continuing to see this person if its like groundhog day - we're starting from scratch on each date. Last night, the man I was seeing asked me a few questions on things I shared with him a week ago, and things he could have gleaned by being in my home (question was, are you a runner - yes, in fact i met him at a running event - which I reminded him, i've run several races, I have those running medals around my house which he saw and commented on, the race numbers on my fridge, which he saw and commented on). This man is above average intelligence (ivy educated, multiple grad degrees), he's smart and can be intuitive and perceptive. Yet he doesn't remember key things that I've shared about myself - like I had told him a whole story of my parents divorcing or my broken engagement. Last night (and it was date #5) he asked if my parents were still together. Maybe he's nervous, maybe alcohol is a factor - but the fact that i've experienced this in him as well as several other men I've dated in the past really puzzles me.
Can you share with me your experience with this - is this something you as women have encountered, men have you encountered this or do you do this and why? how do you get past this? Is this something I should overlook in a person and continue to see them hoping eventually they're remember things I share? For me its really hard to build rapport - and it gets in the way of my attraction. I was soooo attracted to this man but it got in the way. I told him so and why, and he was not open to that feedback so we are not seeing eachother again.
I'm trying to figure out is this me, or do others experience this and is this surmountable? Meaning do men eventually start to remember things you share with them as you are getting to know them or have I just run into a particularily non-present crop of men here in DC. If it helps, we're not kids, I'm 36 and he is 41 - we've both done some dating in our adult lives.
In my dating experience the number one thing I've encountered that has really prevented a connection being made is that my date - always a male - doesn't remember what we talked about or what I shared on a previous date. I want to understand a little more about this phenomenon, or why men and I'm sure women do this too but am really interested in the male perspective - aren't present or are not really listening - even though they appear to be very interested and attracted to me (and say they are). I've run in to this issue time and time again and it gets me really frustrated - I feel like why in the world am I continuing to see this person if its like groundhog day - we're starting from scratch on each date. Last night, the man I was seeing asked me a few questions on things I shared with him a week ago, and things he could have gleaned by being in my home (question was, are you a runner - yes, in fact i met him at a running event - which I reminded him, i've run several races, I have those running medals around my house which he saw and commented on, the race numbers on my fridge, which he saw and commented on). This man is above average intelligence (ivy educated, multiple grad degrees), he's smart and can be intuitive and perceptive. Yet he doesn't remember key things that I've shared about myself - like I had told him a whole story of my parents divorcing or my broken engagement. Last night (and it was date #5) he asked if my parents were still together. Maybe he's nervous, maybe alcohol is a factor - but the fact that i've experienced this in him as well as several other men I've dated in the past really puzzles me.
Can you share with me your experience with this - is this something you as women have encountered, men have you encountered this or do you do this and why? how do you get past this? Is this something I should overlook in a person and continue to see them hoping eventually they're remember things I share? For me its really hard to build rapport - and it gets in the way of my attraction. I was soooo attracted to this man but it got in the way. I told him so and why, and he was not open to that feedback so we are not seeing eachother again.
I'm trying to figure out is this me, or do others experience this and is this surmountable? Meaning do men eventually start to remember things you share with them as you are getting to know them or have I just run into a particularily non-present crop of men here in DC. If it helps, we're not kids, I'm 36 and he is 41 - we've both done some dating in our adult lives.
Perhaps the men you meet are going on a large number of dates and having trouble keeping the details straight.
posted by Lieber Frau at 6:00 AM on May 6, 2012 [35 favorites]
posted by Lieber Frau at 6:00 AM on May 6, 2012 [35 favorites]
I think this is the key takeaway:
I was soooo attracted to this man but it got in the way. I told him so and why, and he was not open to that feedback so we are not seeing eachother again.
I don't think it's particular to men either. When you try to make friends, you notice it in people of every walk of life. It can mean two things: either they're not interested in you, or they have a lot of heavy, meaningful stuff going on in their life that doesn't leave a lot of room for new memories related to a new person.
Being that the people you mention are dating, that signals that they're choosing to put themselves in situations where they should have enough emotional and psychological room to care about another person. Now, forgetting little stuff can be understandable, but yes, starting over from scratch at every meeting is a good sign that you should move on to someone else.
As for seeing other people and having a hard time keeping it straight – beware that thought. Last year I was with a guy who remembered loads of little things, I thought it was really sweet how he'd bring them up related to random things that reminded him of me, and... in the end, it turned out he was seeing 4 other women at the same time (which is why I made it "the end"). He kept a database of anecdotes related to each of us. (One of his ex-girlfriends shared that with me.) So, really, if a guy wants to remember – and he should, if he's dating and has at least a modicum of seriousness about being a good date – there are ways to keep women straight.
Sounds like you're dealing with it fine as is.
posted by fraula at 6:05 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was soooo attracted to this man but it got in the way. I told him so and why, and he was not open to that feedback so we are not seeing eachother again.
I don't think it's particular to men either. When you try to make friends, you notice it in people of every walk of life. It can mean two things: either they're not interested in you, or they have a lot of heavy, meaningful stuff going on in their life that doesn't leave a lot of room for new memories related to a new person.
Being that the people you mention are dating, that signals that they're choosing to put themselves in situations where they should have enough emotional and psychological room to care about another person. Now, forgetting little stuff can be understandable, but yes, starting over from scratch at every meeting is a good sign that you should move on to someone else.
As for seeing other people and having a hard time keeping it straight – beware that thought. Last year I was with a guy who remembered loads of little things, I thought it was really sweet how he'd bring them up related to random things that reminded him of me, and... in the end, it turned out he was seeing 4 other women at the same time (which is why I made it "the end"). He kept a database of anecdotes related to each of us. (One of his ex-girlfriends shared that with me.) So, really, if a guy wants to remember – and he should, if he's dating and has at least a modicum of seriousness about being a good date – there are ways to keep women straight.
Sounds like you're dealing with it fine as is.
posted by fraula at 6:05 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
On non-preview, just wanted to clarify this, because it sounds unnecessariliy harsh paired with what I said before: "they should have enough emotional and psychological room to care about another person." I've been depressed myself and unable to remember things about others very well; it doesn't mean they don't care at all, but that they just don't have the room/energy for it. It can come in time. But when dating, that's generally not what's going on – when I was in the worst of my depression, I voluntarily didn't date because I knew I couldn't handle it. I know others who've done the same.
posted by fraula at 6:08 AM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by fraula at 6:08 AM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Perhaps, a few men that you have dated experience dissociation while on a date with you? It doesn't mean that you are the reason for this, it might be the timing of the date or being too nervous. For instance, you might be going out on dates late at night which might make it easy to zone out or dissociate because your date is tired.
I experience this a lot when conversing with others. It's because I have dissociation. Dissociation is something that many people experience even though it's on the PTSD spectrum (I have the severe form of dissociation).
So, it may be possible that your date is nervous or tired and dissociates. In its most common form, mild dissociation includes day dreaming, "zoning out," or doing things on "autopilot" which is why he can appear interested and attracted to you and go through the motions of saying things that make sense in the moment while forgetting certain things later on (www.therapist4me.com/Dissociation.htm).
The good news is that it's possible for this person to remember certain things later on. The problem is RETRIEVING those memories and facts later on.
Just a suggestion, but perhaps you can mention something pleasant from a previous conversation in order to bridge the 1st and 2nd date with each other. Don't ask it in question form though because that will be uncomfortable for the person and annoying for yourself. This will help build rapport and create a sense of familiarity.
If someone goes on more than one date with you, chances are that they like you EVEN if they dissociate sometimes during the date.
Besides that, if you find it very annoying and don't think there's ANY chemistry and don't like the person then move on.
I'm not claiming that this is without a doubt the reason why your dates forget things. I find it strange that more than one person you have been on a date with has experienced this. That doesn't make sense to me. But, I thought this might be an interesting perspective to mention...
posted by livinglearning at 6:13 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I experience this a lot when conversing with others. It's because I have dissociation. Dissociation is something that many people experience even though it's on the PTSD spectrum (I have the severe form of dissociation).
So, it may be possible that your date is nervous or tired and dissociates. In its most common form, mild dissociation includes day dreaming, "zoning out," or doing things on "autopilot" which is why he can appear interested and attracted to you and go through the motions of saying things that make sense in the moment while forgetting certain things later on (www.therapist4me.com/Dissociation.htm).
The good news is that it's possible for this person to remember certain things later on. The problem is RETRIEVING those memories and facts later on.
Just a suggestion, but perhaps you can mention something pleasant from a previous conversation in order to bridge the 1st and 2nd date with each other. Don't ask it in question form though because that will be uncomfortable for the person and annoying for yourself. This will help build rapport and create a sense of familiarity.
If someone goes on more than one date with you, chances are that they like you EVEN if they dissociate sometimes during the date.
Besides that, if you find it very annoying and don't think there's ANY chemistry and don't like the person then move on.
I'm not claiming that this is without a doubt the reason why your dates forget things. I find it strange that more than one person you have been on a date with has experienced this. That doesn't make sense to me. But, I thought this might be an interesting perspective to mention...
posted by livinglearning at 6:13 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I would think maybe he's dating a couple of people and got confused. OR that he is nervous and just thinking about the next thing to say, either forgetting what you just said, or forgetting that what he is saying doesn't match what you've already told him.
My previous boyfriend was like this but I think he drank too much and wasn't that interested in people in general. I remember details about people to an almost creepy degree sometimes because I am interested either in them or in whatever the weird thing is that they just told me.
If I'm not so interested in the person or topic I sometimes forget about it and end up re-asking, usually just in a way of making conversation that I am not very invested in.
One thing I will say is that in dating, people usually end up like they first present themselves (to paraphrase Maya Angelou). SO if this drives you crazy now...it will keep on driving you crazy. I would say time to start the 1-5 date cycle with someone else.
posted by bquarters at 6:22 AM on May 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
My previous boyfriend was like this but I think he drank too much and wasn't that interested in people in general. I remember details about people to an almost creepy degree sometimes because I am interested either in them or in whatever the weird thing is that they just told me.
If I'm not so interested in the person or topic I sometimes forget about it and end up re-asking, usually just in a way of making conversation that I am not very invested in.
One thing I will say is that in dating, people usually end up like they first present themselves (to paraphrase Maya Angelou). SO if this drives you crazy now...it will keep on driving you crazy. I would say time to start the 1-5 date cycle with someone else.
posted by bquarters at 6:22 AM on May 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
Are you doing most of the talking during the date? What's the balance here?
The nervousness of the situation might play a part. It might also be that he's being dumped with a TON of information out of you on the date while he's simultaneously thinking of what to say next.
I'm speaking from experience. My wife accuses me of this daily. =)
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:30 AM on May 6, 2012 [12 favorites]
The nervousness of the situation might play a part. It might also be that he's being dumped with a TON of information out of you on the date while he's simultaneously thinking of what to say next.
I'm speaking from experience. My wife accuses me of this daily. =)
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:30 AM on May 6, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think a lot of people are not really listening early in the dating process for reasons people have already alluded to: nerves; more interested in how they are coming across; trying to make an impression themselves so maybe just putting on an act of listening.
Looking at this, though:
>>Yet he doesn't remember key things that I've shared about myself - like I had told him a whole story of my parents divorcing or my broken engagement.>>
You might just be telling them too much stuff. How many stories of this kind do you share on every date?
posted by BibiRose at 6:42 AM on May 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Looking at this, though:
>>Yet he doesn't remember key things that I've shared about myself - like I had told him a whole story of my parents divorcing or my broken engagement.>>
You might just be telling them too much stuff. How many stories of this kind do you share on every date?
posted by BibiRose at 6:42 AM on May 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yeah, nerves are a possibility. I'm shy, and I have a very hard time remembering things new people have said, including even their names at first. Doesn't mean I'm not interested or not listening--it just goes into a mental vacuum sometimes. Starting entirely from scratch at date 4 or 5 seems really weird, though. Could they actually be remembering things, just not the ones you would expect? Like, did runner guy remember what kind of music you like or something like that?
posted by Mavri at 6:45 AM on May 6, 2012
posted by Mavri at 6:45 AM on May 6, 2012
I sometimes wave my hands in front of my husband's face and tell him, "please try to focus on what I'm about to say; there will be a quiz at the end," and I'm not at all a big talker who has to be tuned out... in fact, my husband complains that I don't talk/share enough.
He's just like that sometimes, and I have to remind him, "don't assume you know what I'm going to say and stop listening, because you're usually wrong"; "don't think that I'm your mom or whatever other female figure you're thinking of who will automatically be complaining – because you're pretty much always wrong," etc. And he agrees that I pretty much never nag, complain, gossip or bother with inconsequential chatter, and doesn't understand why he does it sometimes either.
Yet, he can remember incredibly detailed specifics of things we've done together, what I was wearing, what we ate/drank, what I said – that are utterly lost to me. Like memory-hole total loss. So I just figure that there are situations that trigger attention and memory in different ways for each of us, and I pay attention to the holistic picture. I don't feel ignored at all by my husband, but his mind can race ahead or he can be preoccupied or responding in some neurologically pre-programmed way that is no longer useful. Me, too.
The guy you described could be fairly nervous (even if not obviously so), and unable to process information normally because of that, or maybe someone whose mental processes are keen but sort of overwhelming, so a lot of stuff gets tossed or scrambled... or someone who is seeing too many people and can't keep them mentally filed, or so self-centered that he never actually processes anything not directly to do with him. It would take a lot of other clues for me to decide about someone I didn't know very well, but if my overall feeling aside from that was uncomfortable or wary, I probably wouldn't bother.
posted by taz at 6:59 AM on May 6, 2012 [7 favorites]
He's just like that sometimes, and I have to remind him, "don't assume you know what I'm going to say and stop listening, because you're usually wrong"; "don't think that I'm your mom or whatever other female figure you're thinking of who will automatically be complaining – because you're pretty much always wrong," etc. And he agrees that I pretty much never nag, complain, gossip or bother with inconsequential chatter, and doesn't understand why he does it sometimes either.
Yet, he can remember incredibly detailed specifics of things we've done together, what I was wearing, what we ate/drank, what I said – that are utterly lost to me. Like memory-hole total loss. So I just figure that there are situations that trigger attention and memory in different ways for each of us, and I pay attention to the holistic picture. I don't feel ignored at all by my husband, but his mind can race ahead or he can be preoccupied or responding in some neurologically pre-programmed way that is no longer useful. Me, too.
The guy you described could be fairly nervous (even if not obviously so), and unable to process information normally because of that, or maybe someone whose mental processes are keen but sort of overwhelming, so a lot of stuff gets tossed or scrambled... or someone who is seeing too many people and can't keep them mentally filed, or so self-centered that he never actually processes anything not directly to do with him. It would take a lot of other clues for me to decide about someone I didn't know very well, but if my overall feeling aside from that was uncomfortable or wary, I probably wouldn't bother.
posted by taz at 6:59 AM on May 6, 2012 [7 favorites]
A couple things:
1. If you're going on 2, 3, 4 dates with someone, let's say each is 2-3 hours long, that's 4-12 hours of conversation to remember, and there are a lot of details that may come up on that conversation. Sometimes it can be hard to keep those things straight about a person, especially if they've been having conversations with new people (other dates, like someone mentioned). But it takes time to retain things in your memory, and if it's only mentioned in passing, then those things can be hard to remember.
2. Maybe they just have a bad memory? I'm getting over a concussion, so my memory is quite bad, to the point where I sometimes can't remember details of conversations that happened hours before. The person will usually provide a few more details, which jars my memory and illicits a "Oh, of course! Sorry!" response from me, because it looks pretty bad that I don't remember these things. Even before the concussion, my memory wasn't the best. Maybe they just have poor memories?
There's also the possibility that they are bad listeners, or uninterested, like many people have mentioned above, but don't default to that possibility. If they don't remember anything you've said, or forget something that keeps coming up, then maybe that's an issue. But be open-minded.
posted by marcusesses at 7:09 AM on May 6, 2012
1. If you're going on 2, 3, 4 dates with someone, let's say each is 2-3 hours long, that's 4-12 hours of conversation to remember, and there are a lot of details that may come up on that conversation. Sometimes it can be hard to keep those things straight about a person, especially if they've been having conversations with new people (other dates, like someone mentioned). But it takes time to retain things in your memory, and if it's only mentioned in passing, then those things can be hard to remember.
2. Maybe they just have a bad memory? I'm getting over a concussion, so my memory is quite bad, to the point where I sometimes can't remember details of conversations that happened hours before. The person will usually provide a few more details, which jars my memory and illicits a "Oh, of course! Sorry!" response from me, because it looks pretty bad that I don't remember these things. Even before the concussion, my memory wasn't the best. Maybe they just have poor memories?
There's also the possibility that they are bad listeners, or uninterested, like many people have mentioned above, but don't default to that possibility. If they don't remember anything you've said, or forget something that keeps coming up, then maybe that's an issue. But be open-minded.
posted by marcusesses at 7:09 AM on May 6, 2012
You're still in the small-talk stage of dating. I think it is very easy to forget these details because you don't really know each other and there's very little context into which you can fit these details. When you couple this with the mild stress of dating, the fact that he may be dating other people too, the fact that there are other obligations in life that compete for his mental space, it's not surprising that he may forget things you "share" with him.
For example, your TELLING him you run, and his SEEING your medals, may seem very easy to remember. But those are really just loose bits of information. If you were dating and sharing your days together and he saw you going for runs and perhaps ran with you, then there's a context in which to remember that you're a runner.
But in the getting to know you stage of dating, his concern may not so much be with filing away factoids about you, but more with what kind of person you are, do you have a connection, does he like you, etc.
Some people are really big on their roster of hobbies. Some people don't care to hear about them.
posted by jayder at 7:14 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
For example, your TELLING him you run, and his SEEING your medals, may seem very easy to remember. But those are really just loose bits of information. If you were dating and sharing your days together and he saw you going for runs and perhaps ran with you, then there's a context in which to remember that you're a runner.
But in the getting to know you stage of dating, his concern may not so much be with filing away factoids about you, but more with what kind of person you are, do you have a connection, does he like you, etc.
Some people are really big on their roster of hobbies. Some people don't care to hear about them.
posted by jayder at 7:14 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't hold this against someone until you get to the point of dating exclusively. People are notoriously bad at remembering stories they've been told, and even worse at remembering who told them those stories. If these guys are dating around, then they might remember details of the story itself, but not be confident that they heard it from you. I'm a very attentive listener and remember details of what my friends have told me, but I'm also guilty somewhat often of trying to tell a story back to the person who originally told it to me ("Did you hear about how X happened?" "Yeah, I told you about it yesterday").
posted by telegraph at 7:16 AM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by telegraph at 7:16 AM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ever had a single pop quiz determine your whole grade for a class?
...Delivered while you're in the middle of eating dinner four weeks before the end of the semester?
Most people, the best they can manage is "I think I remember this..." - If the person in question has actually been involved in a relationship, the next thought they have is "If I don't remember, that might be a problem. If I remember wrong, all hell is probably going to break loose. " - In doubt, you say you don't remember, whether you might or might not. And you do your best to cover the pop quiz panic that would naturally flood your face - Showing that is almost as bad.
posted by Orb2069 at 7:17 AM on May 6, 2012
...Delivered while you're in the middle of eating dinner four weeks before the end of the semester?
Most people, the best they can manage is "I think I remember this..." - If the person in question has actually been involved in a relationship, the next thought they have is "If I don't remember, that might be a problem. If I remember wrong, all hell is probably going to break loose. " - In doubt, you say you don't remember, whether you might or might not. And you do your best to cover the pop quiz panic that would naturally flood your face - Showing that is almost as bad.
posted by Orb2069 at 7:17 AM on May 6, 2012
I think he is probably nervous and has a good memory for certain things and not others. He could be too busy thinking of what he is going to say to really process what you are saying.
Obvious things like asking you if you're a runner when you met at a running event seems like a product of nerves.
posted by fromageball at 7:24 AM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obvious things like asking you if you're a runner when you met at a running event seems like a product of nerves.
posted by fromageball at 7:24 AM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As someone who remembers almost *everything* even very casual acquaintances tell me about themselves (for years, after), I am reluctant to be too hard on this kind of thing. Here are the continuum's/types I'm suggesting, then (without any value associated):
*People who almost compulsively remember a fellow's human's history perhaps as an early way to stay on task and connect, but don't associate intimacy with how much they learn about a person until intimacy with another is actually on the table--then those details have real weight and meaning.
*People who unravel another's history parallel to the level of intimacy. This is the person who doesn't seem interested in the deeper details of your life until you've been around them for more than a few encounters--previous to this they may have seemed taciturn, even, but later may be big share-ers and ask lots of questions.
*People who do not associate the details/history of a persons life with intimacy, at all, and instead develop intimacy through more abstract, but no less real, present-tense impressions of the other person. This person may or may not (ever, even) remember another's history, even while seeming to make significant connections--because they are making a connection, but in a different temporal sort of way.
*People who have more elaborate mechanisms for learning about and remembering another's history because that act, itself, is extremely intimate to them and the more time spent on this the closer they feel to the other person. Relationships with these types may really pick up once there is shared history to remember together.
*People who are engaged with learning your details and history as momentary litmus testing that encourages them to move forward in their pursuit of intimacy with you, but then loses value. So learning something about someone tells them, 'this person is really kind, generous. I feel safe around them," but the specifics of what you told them that gave them that impression aren't important.
Mix, match, and combine. So his inability to accept your concerns may not have been that he wasn't ready to hear something important he should change, but that he truly WAS feeling increased intimacy and connection with you, but taking in the revelations about your life in a different way. Perhaps he is more like the third type and you are more like the fourth type up there.
You can't, of course, rule out more pathologic self-involvement/chemical impairment/lack of interest, but to me, that kind of thing presents itself pretty plainly in first encounters with someone. Differences like ADHD (or memory difference) may mean a person develops one of these types as an intimacy skill in and of itself. Surmountable if you're someone who's comfortable with connecting with someone with different, or very different approach to developing intimacy with others (some are, some aren't--again, no associated value).
posted by rumposinc at 7:27 AM on May 6, 2012 [17 favorites]
*People who almost compulsively remember a fellow's human's history perhaps as an early way to stay on task and connect, but don't associate intimacy with how much they learn about a person until intimacy with another is actually on the table--then those details have real weight and meaning.
*People who unravel another's history parallel to the level of intimacy. This is the person who doesn't seem interested in the deeper details of your life until you've been around them for more than a few encounters--previous to this they may have seemed taciturn, even, but later may be big share-ers and ask lots of questions.
*People who do not associate the details/history of a persons life with intimacy, at all, and instead develop intimacy through more abstract, but no less real, present-tense impressions of the other person. This person may or may not (ever, even) remember another's history, even while seeming to make significant connections--because they are making a connection, but in a different temporal sort of way.
*People who have more elaborate mechanisms for learning about and remembering another's history because that act, itself, is extremely intimate to them and the more time spent on this the closer they feel to the other person. Relationships with these types may really pick up once there is shared history to remember together.
*People who are engaged with learning your details and history as momentary litmus testing that encourages them to move forward in their pursuit of intimacy with you, but then loses value. So learning something about someone tells them, 'this person is really kind, generous. I feel safe around them," but the specifics of what you told them that gave them that impression aren't important.
Mix, match, and combine. So his inability to accept your concerns may not have been that he wasn't ready to hear something important he should change, but that he truly WAS feeling increased intimacy and connection with you, but taking in the revelations about your life in a different way. Perhaps he is more like the third type and you are more like the fourth type up there.
You can't, of course, rule out more pathologic self-involvement/chemical impairment/lack of interest, but to me, that kind of thing presents itself pretty plainly in first encounters with someone. Differences like ADHD (or memory difference) may mean a person develops one of these types as an intimacy skill in and of itself. Surmountable if you're someone who's comfortable with connecting with someone with different, or very different approach to developing intimacy with others (some are, some aren't--again, no associated value).
posted by rumposinc at 7:27 AM on May 6, 2012 [17 favorites]
If you're 40 and still dating, you've heard so much about so many people's personal lives that it all starts to run together. The fact that your parents divorced is a big deal to you, because you only have the one set, but he knows how many people? Some of whom have divorced parents and some of them don't. Unless there is something unusual about the divorce, or you made a major point about how the divorce impacted you, I'm not sure why it would have stood out among the many things you probably told him about yourself.
When I was 20, I practically memorized everything that girls I was interested in told me about themselves, because at that age, everybody can be fresh and interesting to you. I'm in my thirties now, and stuff women (or just people in general) tell me about themselves all kind of runs together, unless it's really unusual or they told me a good story about it, and even then, I might not remember who told me what.
posted by empath at 7:32 AM on May 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
When I was 20, I practically memorized everything that girls I was interested in told me about themselves, because at that age, everybody can be fresh and interesting to you. I'm in my thirties now, and stuff women (or just people in general) tell me about themselves all kind of runs together, unless it's really unusual or they told me a good story about it, and even then, I might not remember who told me what.
posted by empath at 7:32 AM on May 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think that this is unique to dating at all. I have a friend who is a great guy and I like hanging out with him. But part of who he is as a person is simply that he is someone who will ask, with great interest and attention, detailed questions about something in my life... and not remember a single detail when we meet again four days later. And I've seen it all the time in work situations, too -- there's a meeting or an email with critical information, and a week later half the people involved don't remember anything about it.
And, if he is gong on multiple dates with multiple women, I can even more understand how this could happen; if I was doing that, I'd be tempted to keep a notebook with bullet point lists so I could keep track better. Like others have said, consider also the quantity of information you are giving him -- sometimes when someone is just super talkative, I sit back and let it flow over me, nodding and smiling but not really there.
But even though it's at some level normal, it's also not unreasonable of you to expect a certain amount of retention, because that's the kind of relationship you want, right? You want a guy who is there for your stories and enjoys connecting the dots, and while it might take some looking I'll bet that he is findable.
(Confession: I forgot my now-wife's name on our second date, and spent the next couple of hours all stressed out and trying to guide the conversation in ways that would organically cause her to mention her name. So in comparison, forgetting that you are a runner isn't all that bad.)
posted by Forktine at 7:37 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
And, if he is gong on multiple dates with multiple women, I can even more understand how this could happen; if I was doing that, I'd be tempted to keep a notebook with bullet point lists so I could keep track better. Like others have said, consider also the quantity of information you are giving him -- sometimes when someone is just super talkative, I sit back and let it flow over me, nodding and smiling but not really there.
But even though it's at some level normal, it's also not unreasonable of you to expect a certain amount of retention, because that's the kind of relationship you want, right? You want a guy who is there for your stories and enjoys connecting the dots, and while it might take some looking I'll bet that he is findable.
(Confession: I forgot my now-wife's name on our second date, and spent the next couple of hours all stressed out and trying to guide the conversation in ways that would organically cause her to mention her name. So in comparison, forgetting that you are a runner isn't all that bad.)
posted by Forktine at 7:37 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
In addition to the dating issues many have raised (seeing more than one person, trying to make a good impressions), some people, even highly intelligent people, don't process well auditorily and can have a hard time keeping details straight when they are first becoming familiar with a situation or a person. It can be exacerbated by nerves, being flooded with information, and other distractions. The running example is a bit extreme & that would probably bug me, too, but I don't think I would write a person off because of it, especially if we clicked well in many other ways. I would say if you were seeing someone for several weeks or had about 8 dates and he isn't retaining important details about you & your life, that's the time to walk away. You might want to consider being more patient/lenient about this issue in the future.
posted by katemcd at 7:39 AM on May 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by katemcd at 7:39 AM on May 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
It could be any number of things depending on the person, but I'll provide some and data for the bad memory side of things:
I have a terrible memory. Really terrible. My fiancé has a lot of great stories, and 75% of the time, when he asks if he's told me a particular story, I won't remember until he actually starts telling it. For the life of me, I also can't keep who's who at his job straight. They all sort of melt together for me until I've spent some actual time with them (i.e., more than the 30 seconds it takes to say hello and make polite chit-chat). It's not because I'm not interested or don't care; I just can't seem to get my brain to store certain thngs unless I'm either using them constantly or have heard them so many times I couldn't possibly forget any more.
posted by divisjm at 8:29 AM on May 6, 2012
I have a terrible memory. Really terrible. My fiancé has a lot of great stories, and 75% of the time, when he asks if he's told me a particular story, I won't remember until he actually starts telling it. For the life of me, I also can't keep who's who at his job straight. They all sort of melt together for me until I've spent some actual time with them (i.e., more than the 30 seconds it takes to say hello and make polite chit-chat). It's not because I'm not interested or don't care; I just can't seem to get my brain to store certain thngs unless I'm either using them constantly or have heard them so many times I couldn't possibly forget any more.
posted by divisjm at 8:29 AM on May 6, 2012
Best answer: I'm a woman and I have this problem and it *mortifies* me. Like, I will sit and listen very earnestly and with great, great interest to dear friends and/or my lover as they tell me details of their personal histories, and I value and cherish the fact that they want me to know all of this stuff. And yet I retain very, very little of it unless I get home and write it down. Which I try to do -- only sometimes it feels a little icky and unethical to commit someone else's secrets and/or deeply emotional story to paper, and so I DON'T write it down, and then, the next time it's alluded to, all I can remember is a vague feeling that I should know about this already.
Sometimes, if I keep quiet, they keep talking and it all comes back to me. Sometimes it remains vague.
I really, really dislike this about myself -- and I don't understand it, as I've got a great memory for memorization of poems, equations, you name it. But it's a thing. I also forget that I have told stories of my own before, and often say, "Stop me if you've heard this one" or "Did I tell you this already?"
This tendency to forget becomes more severe when I'm listening while nervous. Thus, when I was briefly dating multiple people, this started to seem like a serious, serious problem. Thank goodness, that period ended quickly!
All this to say -- if you need someone who retains the details of what you tell them, well and good; you need what you need. But if you objected to his forgetting because you took it as a sign of disinterest in you, you might want to reconsider that.
posted by artemisia at 8:32 AM on May 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Sometimes, if I keep quiet, they keep talking and it all comes back to me. Sometimes it remains vague.
I really, really dislike this about myself -- and I don't understand it, as I've got a great memory for memorization of poems, equations, you name it. But it's a thing. I also forget that I have told stories of my own before, and often say, "Stop me if you've heard this one" or "Did I tell you this already?"
This tendency to forget becomes more severe when I'm listening while nervous. Thus, when I was briefly dating multiple people, this started to seem like a serious, serious problem. Thank goodness, that period ended quickly!
All this to say -- if you need someone who retains the details of what you tell them, well and good; you need what you need. But if you objected to his forgetting because you took it as a sign of disinterest in you, you might want to reconsider that.
posted by artemisia at 8:32 AM on May 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
I think getting to know someone through dating is perhaps the one area of social interaction where remembering these sorts of details is a big deal. With friends you've known for a long time, these details are there because of how often they've been repeated, and with people you meet in a work context, you can get by with small talk rather than discussing particulars.
So perhaps it's kind of understandable that this would be a skill that is a little underdeveloped in some people, particularly people who are just getting back into dating, and particularly people who are a little older. It's just not a skill they've been forced to maintain by the demands of life.
I think you'll be happier, though, if you just answer questions people ask of you, even if it's something you've already discussed, without even mentioning that you already talked about it. Focus on the fact that the guy is showing that he wants to understand you by asking these questions. These connections simply aren't there for him, and that's sufficient to explain what's going on without making bad assumptions about his interest in you or his character. (This may mean he's not someone YOU are going to stay interested in, but that's another story.)
Side rant: This is something I've picked up from teaching and carried over into other areas of life. In teaching, you really don't want to say, "We just studied this yesterday!" to a kid who asks you something, because the kid had no idea you covered it yesterday, and now you've embarrassed him. But now, that kid and everyone who sees that is going to start to worry about whether their question is about something they just studied yesterday without them realizing it, and that if they ask it, they run the risk of getting that same embarrassing rebuke. So they clam up, both about the stuff they didn't get from yesterday's lesson, and about other things they want to understand better, and start smiling and nodding as though they understand things they didn't really get. And if that starts to pervade your class, you are 100% fucked, so you work like hell to respect the risk kids are taking by admitting they don't understand something.
But this same phenomenon pops up anywhere retention of information is an issue.
posted by alphanerd at 8:41 AM on May 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
So perhaps it's kind of understandable that this would be a skill that is a little underdeveloped in some people, particularly people who are just getting back into dating, and particularly people who are a little older. It's just not a skill they've been forced to maintain by the demands of life.
I think you'll be happier, though, if you just answer questions people ask of you, even if it's something you've already discussed, without even mentioning that you already talked about it. Focus on the fact that the guy is showing that he wants to understand you by asking these questions. These connections simply aren't there for him, and that's sufficient to explain what's going on without making bad assumptions about his interest in you or his character. (This may mean he's not someone YOU are going to stay interested in, but that's another story.)
Side rant: This is something I've picked up from teaching and carried over into other areas of life. In teaching, you really don't want to say, "We just studied this yesterday!" to a kid who asks you something, because the kid had no idea you covered it yesterday, and now you've embarrassed him. But now, that kid and everyone who sees that is going to start to worry about whether their question is about something they just studied yesterday without them realizing it, and that if they ask it, they run the risk of getting that same embarrassing rebuke. So they clam up, both about the stuff they didn't get from yesterday's lesson, and about other things they want to understand better, and start smiling and nodding as though they understand things they didn't really get. And if that starts to pervade your class, you are 100% fucked, so you work like hell to respect the risk kids are taking by admitting they don't understand something.
But this same phenomenon pops up anywhere retention of information is an issue.
posted by alphanerd at 8:41 AM on May 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
Best answer: No, this particular situation is abnormal. (General retreading of previously shared things is somewhat normal.) But if you met someone at a running event, and you have talked about running, and he is in your home looking at your running medals, and then he asks you if you are a runner, he is not "forgetful" or "shy" or whatever, he is a clueless weirdo who is for some reason not even remotely present with you.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 9:03 AM on May 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by RJ Reynolds at 9:03 AM on May 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
- Nervous, inhibits memory
- Modern world, everyone's increasingly forgetful / distracted
- Dating multiple people
- Bad conversation-skills / memory-skills, as an individual
That said, your runner guy seems like an extreme case. You met at a running event. That's about as clueless as asking if you're standing upright or respiring.
posted by ead at 9:57 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Seems like a normal thing in general, although all the different ways to remember you're a runner makes it seem like that would be damn difficult to forget.
Likely nervousness. People have go-to questions for when the conversation lulls. I know I've asked a question before and then instantly regretted it because I know the answer already and I know it. Of course, I have no problem saying "that was a dumb question. You already told me that."
I think you're going to find this more or less in everyone. Here's the part I don't like in your example though: was not open to that feedback. I think that says more about a person than forgetting in the first place.
posted by ctmf at 10:56 AM on May 6, 2012
Likely nervousness. People have go-to questions for when the conversation lulls. I know I've asked a question before and then instantly regretted it because I know the answer already and I know it. Of course, I have no problem saying "that was a dumb question. You already told me that."
I think you're going to find this more or less in everyone. Here's the part I don't like in your example though: was not open to that feedback. I think that says more about a person than forgetting in the first place.
posted by ctmf at 10:56 AM on May 6, 2012
The runner guy could be clueless, but he also could have just stuck his foot in his mouth. Sometimes when you're anxious with someone, you want to keep the conversation going, and go with whatever pops into your head, without cross-referencing or filtering it against the stuff you already know. I've been on both ends of this in dating situations, though never, I don't think, with anything as big as what you're describing, but I always try to let it go, because I figure the person will sort of silently realize what happened at some point and think, "Wow, it was cool of him to let that go without drawing attention to it."
(Incidentally, I have a friend of a friend who noticed this tendency with me and complimented me on it, out of the blue. It turns out he has neurological issues that sometimes cause him to drop details like this, but we hadn't had a discussion about them, or about the fact that this is something I actively make an effort to let slide.)
So I have no idea what happened with the runner guy. All I'm saying is, I could see it being a brain fart that he'd later recognize on his own, and that if this is actually what happened and you keep right on going as if it's not a big deal at all, he'll realize that and feel more comfortable around you for it.
I'm also not saying it's a big deal for you to be turned off by this, I am saying that there's a way to not be turned off by it, to look at it as an opportunity to increase your intimacy with someone, and that I've personally been happier since learning to extend the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
posted by alphanerd at 11:20 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
(Incidentally, I have a friend of a friend who noticed this tendency with me and complimented me on it, out of the blue. It turns out he has neurological issues that sometimes cause him to drop details like this, but we hadn't had a discussion about them, or about the fact that this is something I actively make an effort to let slide.)
So I have no idea what happened with the runner guy. All I'm saying is, I could see it being a brain fart that he'd later recognize on his own, and that if this is actually what happened and you keep right on going as if it's not a big deal at all, he'll realize that and feel more comfortable around you for it.
I'm also not saying it's a big deal for you to be turned off by this, I am saying that there's a way to not be turned off by it, to look at it as an opportunity to increase your intimacy with someone, and that I've personally been happier since learning to extend the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
posted by alphanerd at 11:20 AM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
The runner thing is a bit - OK, a lot - over the line, but there's one more factor, specific to dating, that nobody has mentioned: noise level! Dates tend to take place in crowded restaurants and/or bars, and if someone talks even the slightest bit quietly or has the slightest hearing problem, it can get tough. I can't tell you how many times I've maybe heard 75% of what someone's said but didn't want to awkwardly ask them to repeat what's an off-the-cuff comment. Combine this with the aforementioned poor memory, nerves, multiple dates and, in a dating situation, the need to come up with topics and not lapse into awkward silence ever early on, and you get this a lot.
Or maybe that's just me.
posted by dekathelon at 12:23 PM on May 6, 2012
Or maybe that's just me.
posted by dekathelon at 12:23 PM on May 6, 2012
Best answer: Here's my take: a date who DOESN'T intend to marry you will spend the entire date fantasizing about having wicked sex with you. A date who does, on the other hand, will remember details and almost everything you've told him.
I suggest you date better-quality guys.
posted by lotusmish at 12:48 PM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I suggest you date better-quality guys.
posted by lotusmish at 12:48 PM on May 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm male and my memory is very selective, which is to say, almost worthless. It is entirely possible to have a conversation with me one day, with me raptly engaged, and by next week I'll have forgotten what we talked about. So yeah, that happens, to the point that I've developed Memento-like coping skills to compensate.
But even by my standards it's weird that he would ask you about running when he met you at a running event. And if I'm really into someone, details are much more likely to stick.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:13 PM on May 6, 2012
But even by my standards it's weird that he would ask you about running when he met you at a running event. And if I'm really into someone, details are much more likely to stick.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:13 PM on May 6, 2012
question was, are you a runner - yes, in fact i met him at a running event
this could be a way of starting a conversation about running. he may remember that you are a runner and he wants to talk about running again. saying "tell me about running" can put a lot of pressure on someone. asking a specific question can seem creepy because it could seem like a huge change in the conversation. he may not know where a conversation about running would go, and he wants to let you help guide it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 2:38 PM on May 6, 2012
this could be a way of starting a conversation about running. he may remember that you are a runner and he wants to talk about running again. saying "tell me about running" can put a lot of pressure on someone. asking a specific question can seem creepy because it could seem like a huge change in the conversation. he may not know where a conversation about running would go, and he wants to let you help guide it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 2:38 PM on May 6, 2012
You seem to have the same expectations from a date that you have for someone you're in a relationship with, and that's not realistic.
I'm single. I go on dates. I certainly don't remember every bit of every conversation, and I've learned that my dates don't either. The interesting stuff will be remembered. Were you bit by a shark? A date will remember that. The boring stuff will be forgotten. Also, the length between dates increases the amount that will be forgotten, ESPECIALLY IN THE BEGINNING, which leads to starting over again after each date. And finally, you're probably not the only person a man is going on dates with. Until you decide that you want to be exclusive ("a couple"), your date is getting a ton of new info about each new person. That, too, makes it easier to forget the less interesting stuff.
I agree with qxntpqbbbqxl that it's strange he'd forget you're a runner if he met you at a running event. That being said... if he's going on dates with other women, and if you've only seen him two or three times over the period of a month of so, I can see how he might forget for a moment.
Perhaps what you really need to do is find a better way to connect with a date. I could be wrong, but, if you notice a pattern where everyone you meet forgets most of what you tell them, you have to realize that the only common denominator is you. That's not a bad thing though, since it makes it easier to figure out what to do about a problem. If you're a runner and he's a runner, why aren't you running together? Are the dates you go on interesting, or are they kind of boring? By finding neat stuff to do on a date, you also become more memorable, and you take a lot of the pressure off of the date itself (assuming you're both having fun, of course). I had a woman take me roller skating on a first date once. We only went on one date after that since it turned out that we weren't a good match, but I remember more about her than I do from most of the first/second type dates I've been on.
posted by 2oh1 at 2:50 PM on May 6, 2012
I'm single. I go on dates. I certainly don't remember every bit of every conversation, and I've learned that my dates don't either. The interesting stuff will be remembered. Were you bit by a shark? A date will remember that. The boring stuff will be forgotten. Also, the length between dates increases the amount that will be forgotten, ESPECIALLY IN THE BEGINNING, which leads to starting over again after each date. And finally, you're probably not the only person a man is going on dates with. Until you decide that you want to be exclusive ("a couple"), your date is getting a ton of new info about each new person. That, too, makes it easier to forget the less interesting stuff.
I agree with qxntpqbbbqxl that it's strange he'd forget you're a runner if he met you at a running event. That being said... if he's going on dates with other women, and if you've only seen him two or three times over the period of a month of so, I can see how he might forget for a moment.
Perhaps what you really need to do is find a better way to connect with a date. I could be wrong, but, if you notice a pattern where everyone you meet forgets most of what you tell them, you have to realize that the only common denominator is you. That's not a bad thing though, since it makes it easier to figure out what to do about a problem. If you're a runner and he's a runner, why aren't you running together? Are the dates you go on interesting, or are they kind of boring? By finding neat stuff to do on a date, you also become more memorable, and you take a lot of the pressure off of the date itself (assuming you're both having fun, of course). I had a woman take me roller skating on a first date once. We only went on one date after that since it turned out that we weren't a good match, but I remember more about her than I do from most of the first/second type dates I've been on.
posted by 2oh1 at 2:50 PM on May 6, 2012
I am not sure if this is the case with the Ivy League guy (ILG) but this may be worth thinking about.
You are assuming that (1) he is intelligent because he is ILG with multiple grad degrees. Those accomplishments don't necessarily mean he is "intelligent". It's a common assumption made by many people that those who have a few letters before or after their names are gosh, intelligent! Driven, motivated, persistent etc etc probably so but he may or may not be intelligent. You should especially not expect too much of him in the dating arena because of his accomplishments (see #2)
(2) Because he is ILG, he could be one of those really absent-minded (yet very successful) people. You will be surprised how absent-minded some of these folks can be (mild example- think losing your personal, important items all over the place on a regular basis). So it may not be that he has a problem remembering, maybe its just that his brain is highly skilled at discarding whatever information is not required in the immediate future. Harsh but could be true.
That said, to me it sounds like this guy is just not *present*. Sounds like his mind is elsewhere- the hot match he checked out before you or in an atomic fusion experiment- who knows. Not so much about memory or forgetting- things aren't registering in the first place.
posted by xm at 6:54 PM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are assuming that (1) he is intelligent because he is ILG with multiple grad degrees. Those accomplishments don't necessarily mean he is "intelligent". It's a common assumption made by many people that those who have a few letters before or after their names are gosh, intelligent! Driven, motivated, persistent etc etc probably so but he may or may not be intelligent. You should especially not expect too much of him in the dating arena because of his accomplishments (see #2)
(2) Because he is ILG, he could be one of those really absent-minded (yet very successful) people. You will be surprised how absent-minded some of these folks can be (mild example- think losing your personal, important items all over the place on a regular basis). So it may not be that he has a problem remembering, maybe its just that his brain is highly skilled at discarding whatever information is not required in the immediate future. Harsh but could be true.
That said, to me it sounds like this guy is just not *present*. Sounds like his mind is elsewhere- the hot match he checked out before you or in an atomic fusion experiment- who knows. Not so much about memory or forgetting- things aren't registering in the first place.
posted by xm at 6:54 PM on May 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
How did he react to your incredulous reaction when he asked you if you were a runner or if your parents were still together? Did he really not remember, or was his reaction more like "guuuh, of course, sorry, yes, I remember now that we talked about this."
I don't find that this is a male thing versus a female thing at all. Some people just have poor short-term memories and/or a poor ability to keep the dots connected if distracted. It's easy to attach a lot of significance to this when you're dating because you're aware of how hard you're trying, but it's a pretty common thing to just duhh, brain fart. A friend of mine recently mentioned something he'd gotten his wife (also a friend of mine) for her birthday, to which I innocently asked "oh, when's her birthday?"...momentarily forgetting that a few weeks prior we'd all gone out of town together overnight to celebrate her birthday.
posted by desuetude at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2012
I don't find that this is a male thing versus a female thing at all. Some people just have poor short-term memories and/or a poor ability to keep the dots connected if distracted. It's easy to attach a lot of significance to this when you're dating because you're aware of how hard you're trying, but it's a pretty common thing to just duhh, brain fart. A friend of mine recently mentioned something he'd gotten his wife (also a friend of mine) for her birthday, to which I innocently asked "oh, when's her birthday?"...momentarily forgetting that a few weeks prior we'd all gone out of town together overnight to celebrate her birthday.
posted by desuetude at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2012
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posted by ellF at 5:54 AM on May 6, 2012 [5 favorites]