Best practices for approaching busy ex-employers for reference? And how to explain longer stay at university?
May 4, 2012 7:48 AM Subscribe
I'm a new grad entering the workforce. What's the best way for me to approach busy busy BUSY ex-bosses (so busy they have phone gatekeepers, cuz they're always on the phone with Very Important People) to use them as a reference? I left them on good terms, but it's been at least two years and no contact in between. Several related questions ahead.
1. Phone or email? How much chit-chat/specifics about potential new position?
2. How often should I ask them? Every time there's a new interview asking for a reference list, or at the beginning of a general job search, or other?
3. Do I by default ask them if I could include them as a reference list, or should I pre-write a letter of recommendation for them to edit/sign/format into PDF and email back to me? What do people hiring prefer? Advantages of a letter of recommendation is that they don't need to call the person, but the letter of recommendation may be too general because I don't want it to be super tailored (which requires me to contact the ex-employer too often for approval, which may irritate them)
4. Should I include them in a list of references if a job posting asks for one before the interview process? Or do I owe it to my past employers to keep their information private?
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Part II
How do I explain a longer stay at a university? I worked full-time for a year, which should explain that, but there's another year I have to explain. Plain truth is, I was supposed to graduate a year earlier, but didn't. I still learned valuable skills from volunteering/networking/other enriching activities, but did no full-time schooling or work in the past year. There was some travel, but not that much. It was a relaxed and fulfilling year, I don't regret it, but it did me well for personal reasons rather than professional ones. Advice?
1. Phone or email? How much chit-chat/specifics about potential new position?
2. How often should I ask them? Every time there's a new interview asking for a reference list, or at the beginning of a general job search, or other?
3. Do I by default ask them if I could include them as a reference list, or should I pre-write a letter of recommendation for them to edit/sign/format into PDF and email back to me? What do people hiring prefer? Advantages of a letter of recommendation is that they don't need to call the person, but the letter of recommendation may be too general because I don't want it to be super tailored (which requires me to contact the ex-employer too often for approval, which may irritate them)
4. Should I include them in a list of references if a job posting asks for one before the interview process? Or do I owe it to my past employers to keep their information private?
----
Part II
How do I explain a longer stay at a university? I worked full-time for a year, which should explain that, but there's another year I have to explain. Plain truth is, I was supposed to graduate a year earlier, but didn't. I still learned valuable skills from volunteering/networking/other enriching activities, but did no full-time schooling or work in the past year. There was some travel, but not that much. It was a relaxed and fulfilling year, I don't regret it, but it did me well for personal reasons rather than professional ones. Advice?
Agreeing with decathecting.
Email, sinply ask if they would be open to being a reference. I recommend shorter than decathecting indicated, though.
"Hi, worked for you x, enjoyed my time, hope things are well, just graduated, was hoping I could use you as a reference as I go through my job search.."
If they concur, notify them when you do put them down and they might be getting contacted.
Co-workers are also very good to use as references.
And yes, just put graduation date.
posted by rich at 8:16 AM on May 4, 2012
Email, sinply ask if they would be open to being a reference. I recommend shorter than decathecting indicated, though.
"Hi, worked for you x, enjoyed my time, hope things are well, just graduated, was hoping I could use you as a reference as I go through my job search.."
If they concur, notify them when you do put them down and they might be getting contacted.
Co-workers are also very good to use as references.
And yes, just put graduation date.
posted by rich at 8:16 AM on May 4, 2012
Email.Submit a polite, deferential request. You might bcc their secretary, if your old boss is really busy and you have a good relationship with the secretary.
But know that a lot of people are uncomfortable writing form recommendations, i.e., they'll write you a recommendation for a particular position, but not one you can just stuff in every application you send out. Be prepared to deal with that.
posted by valkyryn at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2012
But know that a lot of people are uncomfortable writing form recommendations, i.e., they'll write you a recommendation for a particular position, but not one you can just stuff in every application you send out. Be prepared to deal with that.
posted by valkyryn at 8:21 AM on May 4, 2012
Part I -- Short email followed up by phone call. As a busy busy person who is frequently an ex-boss of student interns, do not assume that silence equals no -- it may just mean that the busy person has inbox issues, or a phone list that never gets done. You could also ask the assistant to let the busy person know why you are emailing/calling. In my opinion, fine to ask once and get an okay, and then include on a list. I would not pre-write a recommendation letter. If there's a particular job where you are progressing toward the final round, definitely call and leave a message letting the person know. Also, usually a busy busy person will call back the people seeking references, because they know that it's important and they want "their" people to do well, but they may not call you back immediately or consistently. Agree that it's important to include easier-to-reach people on your reference list as well as the busy busy people.
Part II -- Agree with just putting your graduation year and people are likely not to notice.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 8:34 AM on May 4, 2012
Part II -- Agree with just putting your graduation year and people are likely not to notice.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 8:34 AM on May 4, 2012
Speaking as a busy person who rejoices in my own gatekeeper but provides plenty of references anyway:
Under I:
1. Email, definitely. And preferably directly to my gatekeeper, who also keeps my files of writing samples, etc. on the people for whom I provide reerences. Provide enough information about the potential position that I can tailor my reference letter to the qualifications/requirements of the potential position.
2. Ask in advance if you can contact for each job search/actual interview, or if your reference prefers just to give permission in advance to be listed as a reference and to provide letters when there is an actual need for one.
3. Do not draft your own reference letter unless asked to do so. Re tailoring by your reference, see number 1.
4. It is fine to include any reference in a list of references if you've gotten advance permission to do that whenever asked to provide reference names/lists of names. See number 2.
Under II:
Personally, I'd list your positions or degrees with years/months on your resume, not the gap year. Tell anyone who asks about the gap year in an interview about how you were using it for personal growth and recharging. That's a fine use of time in my book, btw.
posted by bearwife at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2012
Under I:
1. Email, definitely. And preferably directly to my gatekeeper, who also keeps my files of writing samples, etc. on the people for whom I provide reerences. Provide enough information about the potential position that I can tailor my reference letter to the qualifications/requirements of the potential position.
2. Ask in advance if you can contact for each job search/actual interview, or if your reference prefers just to give permission in advance to be listed as a reference and to provide letters when there is an actual need for one.
3. Do not draft your own reference letter unless asked to do so. Re tailoring by your reference, see number 1.
4. It is fine to include any reference in a list of references if you've gotten advance permission to do that whenever asked to provide reference names/lists of names. See number 2.
Under II:
Personally, I'd list your positions or degrees with years/months on your resume, not the gap year. Tell anyone who asks about the gap year in an interview about how you were using it for personal growth and recharging. That's a fine use of time in my book, btw.
posted by bearwife at 9:41 AM on May 4, 2012
I'm surprised people are asking for references early on in a recruiting process. Don't provide a list of references until you are asked by a potential employer for one.
As for longer stays at school, I agree, use your grad year only. If asked, explain shortly and don't dwell, it's no big deal.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:33 AM on May 4, 2012
As for longer stays at school, I agree, use your grad year only. If asked, explain shortly and don't dwell, it's no big deal.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:33 AM on May 4, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Do not pre-write letters of recommendation (it's very presumptuous, both towards the old employer and the new one), and don't include a list of references with an initial application unless you absolutely have to. Wait until the potential employer asks, and then you can give your references an idea of what they're actually looking for.
Also, it might be good to reach out to some references who aren't the BUSY BUSY supervisors. As a hiring manager, it's a huge pain for me to have to play phone tag with people. I'd prefer to talk to a coworker I can get on the phone right away than an IMPORTANT PERSON I have to chase down for days.
Finally, once you get a job, send thank you notes to your references. Handwritten, on stationary or blank cards. People remember that stuff.
2) Don't explain it. Just give the year you graduated, omit the year you started, and no one will notice. Don't draw people's attention to potential negatives when there's an easy way to avoid the subject altogether.
posted by decathecting at 7:56 AM on May 4, 2012