What kind of nice, sweet, chicken friendly dog should we get?
April 25, 2012 8:49 AM Subscribe
I need to help my parents get a new doggie. We hope to get a dog from the pound or a rescue place, so it will probably not be a purebreed. But I'd like suggestions on what breed mixes to look for.
Previously we had a cocker spaniel which was the greatest dog of all time but soooo high maintenance (allergic to everything, eyes and ears needed to be cleaned every single day). So we'd like a dog the SIZE of a cocker spaniel, but not one that requires lots of special attention or professional grooming or crazy diets, etc. Also, if at all possible, a dog that's good with chickens because we have a coop. (The chickens are fenced in but occassionally they find a way onto our lawn.) We live in a fairly rural area, so our dog would have free rein all over our property during the day. We just want a sweet friendly dog that will follow my dad all over the farm during the day, and keep him company :) I like dogs that look like teddy bears, but unfortunately I know they tend to be the most work to take care of.
Previously we had a cocker spaniel which was the greatest dog of all time but soooo high maintenance (allergic to everything, eyes and ears needed to be cleaned every single day). So we'd like a dog the SIZE of a cocker spaniel, but not one that requires lots of special attention or professional grooming or crazy diets, etc. Also, if at all possible, a dog that's good with chickens because we have a coop. (The chickens are fenced in but occassionally they find a way onto our lawn.) We live in a fairly rural area, so our dog would have free rein all over our property during the day. We just want a sweet friendly dog that will follow my dad all over the farm during the day, and keep him company :) I like dogs that look like teddy bears, but unfortunately I know they tend to be the most work to take care of.
Dogs don't come pre-programmed with great personalities just because they are of a specific breed.
Just like there are mean pit bulls, there are sweet, friendly pit bulls. Just like there are friendly retrievers, there are retrievers that are so dumb they would eat a rock. I've known chihuahuas nastier than a Nazi, but others who would be wonderful nursing home companions.
The point is, each breed or dog each come with their own personality quirks. Try a rescue group, where a dog has been with a family for awhile and will have a more intimate knowledge of a specific dog's personality over a longer period of time.
posted by HeyAllie at 9:01 AM on April 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
Just like there are mean pit bulls, there are sweet, friendly pit bulls. Just like there are friendly retrievers, there are retrievers that are so dumb they would eat a rock. I've known chihuahuas nastier than a Nazi, but others who would be wonderful nursing home companions.
The point is, each breed or dog each come with their own personality quirks. Try a rescue group, where a dog has been with a family for awhile and will have a more intimate knowledge of a specific dog's personality over a longer period of time.
posted by HeyAllie at 9:01 AM on April 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
Not that you're looking for Purebred but this site seemed informative when I did a casual search of chowchows.
I say I did a search because what I've heard about them is that they can be a bit on the protective side, even aggressive in some cases. I even have a personal (read: anecdotal) experience confirming this in the form of a well cared for, well behaved, loving, middleaged chow that my aunt had that bit a neighbor boy simply because he was too near my uncle. That's the only causation/thing we could pin it on anyway. It was a sad time.
HeyAllie has a good point, go to the rescue group and talk to folks about your desires/needs/requirements and see what they have available that's within your comfort zone. They'll want you to be happy and they'll know the dogs they have on hand better than any internet advice you get here.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:12 AM on April 25, 2012
I say I did a search because what I've heard about them is that they can be a bit on the protective side, even aggressive in some cases. I even have a personal (read: anecdotal) experience confirming this in the form of a well cared for, well behaved, loving, middleaged chow that my aunt had that bit a neighbor boy simply because he was too near my uncle. That's the only causation/thing we could pin it on anyway. It was a sad time.
HeyAllie has a good point, go to the rescue group and talk to folks about your desires/needs/requirements and see what they have available that's within your comfort zone. They'll want you to be happy and they'll know the dogs they have on hand better than any internet advice you get here.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:12 AM on April 25, 2012
What you want is a shelter or rescue group that 1) does fostering and 2) has knowledgeable staff that do temperament assessment. You know more of what you are getting with a dog that has lived in a foster home with people and other animals and has been assessed for temperament, versus one that keeps dogs in cages or runs, don't do assessments and just operate as holding kennels.
Find a few good shelters and rescues in your area and tell them what you told us - you want a cocker-spaniel sized dog that will get along with chickens, has no health problems or need for special diets, etc. A good shelter or rescue will ask you lots of questions and perhaps want a home visit, but that is to ensure that your parents get a dog that is a good fit for them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:14 AM on April 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Find a few good shelters and rescues in your area and tell them what you told us - you want a cocker-spaniel sized dog that will get along with chickens, has no health problems or need for special diets, etc. A good shelter or rescue will ask you lots of questions and perhaps want a home visit, but that is to ensure that your parents get a dog that is a good fit for them.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:14 AM on April 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
That said, it sounds like a working breed/herding dog might be awesome for your situation.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:14 AM on April 25, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:14 AM on April 25, 2012
The further you get away from breeds, the less aptly you'll be able to tell what personality of dog you're getting based solely on bloodlines. As HeyAllie points out, there is a lot of variation among dogs of the same breed, so just think of the possibilities that arise when one dog has two, or four, or ten different breeds as his pedigree.
So foster a cocker spaniel-sized dog and see how he or she shakes with the chickens and the humans, preferably an adult dog whose personality has already matured.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:44 AM on April 25, 2012
So foster a cocker spaniel-sized dog and see how he or she shakes with the chickens and the humans, preferably an adult dog whose personality has already matured.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:44 AM on April 25, 2012
No offense cairdeas but a Chow? Right up there on my "NO" list ahead of pit bulls. My mom had two Chows - one that bit my brother, and the other that was never friendly to anyone. It's not enough to have experience with a couple individuals to suggest a breed. Chows are not known for friendliness and yes, are very protective, and this is many years of Humane Society volunteering talking, not just those two purebreds my mom and her husband HAD to have. [Also, they do poorly under anesthesia.]
The suggestions about a shelter or group with a knowledgeable staff is really your best option. Mixed breeds rarely have only two breeds in their ancestry, so your being able to talk to folks who know a particular dog is really the best thing you can do. I always say it's hard to go wrong with a Lab or Golden mix, though of course they will be on the larger side.
posted by Glinn at 10:04 AM on April 25, 2012 [6 favorites]
The suggestions about a shelter or group with a knowledgeable staff is really your best option. Mixed breeds rarely have only two breeds in their ancestry, so your being able to talk to folks who know a particular dog is really the best thing you can do. I always say it's hard to go wrong with a Lab or Golden mix, though of course they will be on the larger side.
posted by Glinn at 10:04 AM on April 25, 2012 [6 favorites]
You're unlikely to even be able to reliably pick out the breeds that went into a mutt or how far back they were.
I'd ignore apparent breed (with the caveat that if you get a dog that looks like a pit bull you might conceivably have trouble with local regulations or home insurance) and instead get an adult dog whose size and broad behavioral traits are known quantities instead of very vague guesses.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:11 AM on April 25, 2012
I'd ignore apparent breed (with the caveat that if you get a dog that looks like a pit bull you might conceivably have trouble with local regulations or home insurance) and instead get an adult dog whose size and broad behavioral traits are known quantities instead of very vague guesses.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:11 AM on April 25, 2012
No offense taken Glinn, I think a range of differing opinions/experiences should be really helpful for the OP. (FWIW, I also have volunteered at my local humane society for years, as well as at the city kill shelter and fostered shelter dogs, but I don't think one has to do that to have a suggestion on the topic.)
Because I think it would be useful for the OP, here's my take on why it may be *not* be hard for them, in their particular situation, to go wrong with a Lab. Labs were bred to hunt birds. Golden retrievers were also bred for hunting and retrieving birds. What everyone keeps saying is true, that individuals vary, but it's also true that certain breeds were bred for certain traits and that breeding was largely successful. Labs and golden retrievers would not at all be the first breed I would look at if you want safe chickens.
I would also pretty much rule out the rest of the hunting breeds like terriers (bred for chasing vermin, but many of them will just chase anything that runs, cats, chickens, whatever), and the herding breeds (border collies etc.) who also instinctively chase what runs. Generally if the breed was bred to have a strong prey drive, I would not start by looking at that breed. Individuals vary, but you'll be looking at a lot of individuals if you want to find one without those breed traits.
posted by cairdeas at 10:34 AM on April 25, 2012
Because I think it would be useful for the OP, here's my take on why it may be *not* be hard for them, in their particular situation, to go wrong with a Lab. Labs were bred to hunt birds. Golden retrievers were also bred for hunting and retrieving birds. What everyone keeps saying is true, that individuals vary, but it's also true that certain breeds were bred for certain traits and that breeding was largely successful. Labs and golden retrievers would not at all be the first breed I would look at if you want safe chickens.
I would also pretty much rule out the rest of the hunting breeds like terriers (bred for chasing vermin, but many of them will just chase anything that runs, cats, chickens, whatever), and the herding breeds (border collies etc.) who also instinctively chase what runs. Generally if the breed was bred to have a strong prey drive, I would not start by looking at that breed. Individuals vary, but you'll be looking at a lot of individuals if you want to find one without those breed traits.
posted by cairdeas at 10:34 AM on April 25, 2012
Wow, I'm with Glinn...I've actually heard of dog walkers/groomers who specifically refuse to work with Chows but will work with pit bulls. So color me surprised.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 11:31 AM on April 25, 2012
posted by The ____ of Justice at 11:31 AM on April 25, 2012
cairdeas, I sent you a memail! No of course people don't need shelter experience to comment, I just mentioned mine because I've seen a lot of chows and chow mixes as a result. As for labs and goldens, they were bred to retrieve the birds shot by hunters, not to actually hunt them, and I'd also say they're easier to train than other dogs. But once again with a mix you just don't know what you're going to get.
But anyway OP, I would make one additional suggestion: Don't take home the first likely candidate you come across, or at least take an evening to think it over. Sometimes the stories that come with the dogs are terribly heartbreaking, but that doesn't mean they would make a good pet for a particular person. Good luck!
posted by Glinn at 11:32 AM on April 25, 2012
But anyway OP, I would make one additional suggestion: Don't take home the first likely candidate you come across, or at least take an evening to think it over. Sometimes the stories that come with the dogs are terribly heartbreaking, but that doesn't mean they would make a good pet for a particular person. Good luck!
posted by Glinn at 11:32 AM on April 25, 2012
Purebred rescues do exist: German Shepherds, French bulldogs, Poodles, Labradors, even Cocker Spaniels. That said, competition is fierce for a young, healthy purebred rescue, as many dogs are surrendered or abandoned due to expensive health problems caused by irresponsible breeding practices (backyard breeders, puppy mills). But they, too, need loving forever homes with experienced owners!
I do think that if you are serious about getting a dog from a shelter or your local humane society, you may not want to consider the breed(s) because it can be such a mixed bag (vicious Chihuahuas, docile Pitbulls, neurotic Labs etc), and just focus on getting a dog with a great temperament that will suit your parents' lifestyle.
posted by peripathetic at 11:41 AM on April 25, 2012
I do think that if you are serious about getting a dog from a shelter or your local humane society, you may not want to consider the breed(s) because it can be such a mixed bag (vicious Chihuahuas, docile Pitbulls, neurotic Labs etc), and just focus on getting a dog with a great temperament that will suit your parents' lifestyle.
posted by peripathetic at 11:41 AM on April 25, 2012
I don't think a working dog would be great around chickens.
I think the best 'breed' would be an Older Dog. Older dogs seem to always know they are being rescued and are forever appreciative.
posted by Vaike at 12:49 PM on April 25, 2012
I think the best 'breed' would be an Older Dog. Older dogs seem to always know they are being rescued and are forever appreciative.
posted by Vaike at 12:49 PM on April 25, 2012
Look for a pit bull mix! Contrary to the ignorant references above, anyone with any experience with dogs knows that pit bulls tend to be some of the most loyal, loving, intelligent dogs out there. Pit bulls average the second highest scores on tempermant tests, second only to French bulldogs, and well above labs and retrievers. While some are dog aggressive (which you see in any breed) they were specifically bred for many years to NEVER show aggression to humans, and as a result, most pit bulls are they type of dog to follow their person around and generally be very affectionate. Also contrary to popular belief, they're a medium sized breed, averaging 40 lbs.
Beyond that, pit bulls are most in need of any breed out there. They make up up to 20 percent of all dogs in America, with the highest euthanasia rates and most presence in shelters, because of the common ignorant attitudes. As for the chickens, that is less a question of breed and more the individual dog. Some dogs have higher prey drives than others. Most shelters do temperament tests including how the dog is with cats. A dog good with cats seems more likely to be good with chickens. All three of the pit bulls I've had have been great with cats and children. There is a reason they were called the nanny dog!
posted by catatethebird at 2:00 PM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Beyond that, pit bulls are most in need of any breed out there. They make up up to 20 percent of all dogs in America, with the highest euthanasia rates and most presence in shelters, because of the common ignorant attitudes. As for the chickens, that is less a question of breed and more the individual dog. Some dogs have higher prey drives than others. Most shelters do temperament tests including how the dog is with cats. A dog good with cats seems more likely to be good with chickens. All three of the pit bulls I've had have been great with cats and children. There is a reason they were called the nanny dog!
posted by catatethebird at 2:00 PM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I agree that a pit bull like dog may be the right fit. We rescued ours through a facility in the Seattle area that finds dogs with good temperament and pairs them with children at a juvenile detention facility who work with the dogs in an obedience training class. The organization is called Canine Connections.
posted by surfgator at 2:43 PM on April 25, 2012
posted by surfgator at 2:43 PM on April 25, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks for all the input, everyone! I will post a picture when we find our new little friend.
posted by silverstatue at 8:30 PM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by silverstatue at 8:30 PM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Look for a pit bull mix! Contrary to the ignorant references above, anyone with any experience with dogs knows that pit bulls tend to be some of the most loyal, loving, intelligent dogs out there.
I like pit bulls but just a word of caution about the whole mix thing. I forgot where I was reading this, but yes, pit bulls were bred so they'd be tough in the ring but NOT bite humans. Those dogs that would mouth humans or bite them would be deselected for breeding. Their temperaments are supposed to be gentle towards humans, but maybe less so with other dogs.
On the other hand, breeds like rottweilers and dobermans were actually bred to guard, and have a completely different disposition than those breeds known as "pit bulls."
When you cross breeds, you'll never know what you get. Sure that's true with pure breds, but mixed breeds even more so.
Temperament test is going to be essential if you're getting a dog as strong as a pit.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 3:40 AM on April 26, 2012
I like pit bulls but just a word of caution about the whole mix thing. I forgot where I was reading this, but yes, pit bulls were bred so they'd be tough in the ring but NOT bite humans. Those dogs that would mouth humans or bite them would be deselected for breeding. Their temperaments are supposed to be gentle towards humans, but maybe less so with other dogs.
On the other hand, breeds like rottweilers and dobermans were actually bred to guard, and have a completely different disposition than those breeds known as "pit bulls."
When you cross breeds, you'll never know what you get. Sure that's true with pure breds, but mixed breeds even more so.
Temperament test is going to be essential if you're getting a dog as strong as a pit.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 3:40 AM on April 26, 2012
As others have said: forget about breeds; find a shelter that fosters; explain your circumstances; let them pick a dog that will suit you.
posted by primer_dimer at 4:28 AM on April 26, 2012
posted by primer_dimer at 4:28 AM on April 26, 2012
Mod note: Thread needs to, from this point on, not be a referendum on pit bulls, thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:43 PM on April 26, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:43 PM on April 26, 2012
I wanted to add a bit about temperament testing and matching: The shelter where I got my cat participates in the ASPCA "Meet Your Match" program. First, they assess and test the animals they take into their shelter. Then they have the potential adopters fill out a quiz to find out what "Canine-Ality" or "Feline-Ality" (dog or cat temperament) would suit them best. You (or your parents in this case) will be asked about the activity level in your home, what you expect from a dog, whether you want a high-energy dog or not, whether you've had experience with dogs - basically finding out what personality of dog would best suit you.
At the shelter where I adopted my cat I could take the quiz online before I went there, and so I knew beforehand what "feline-ality" of cat would suit me (and as it turned out the cat I had my eye on from the shelter's website was my purr-fect match and I went home with her that day!). With this type of temperament and adopter assessment, the adoption counselors can steer potential pet parents to meet dogs they are best suited for rather than adopting a dog which might look superficially wonderful but in fact is not suited for them.
Many shelters and rescues now have websites and even put videos of their adoptables up on YouTube. It's true that competition for healthy young purebred dogs is fierce and rescues can be very picky. BUT it can be much easier to adopt a medium-sized mixed breed dog. In your parents' case I don't think breed is nearly as important as size, health and temperament, so focus on those, and, again, go to a good shelter that does fostering and temperament assessment.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:12 PM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
At the shelter where I adopted my cat I could take the quiz online before I went there, and so I knew beforehand what "feline-ality" of cat would suit me (and as it turned out the cat I had my eye on from the shelter's website was my purr-fect match and I went home with her that day!). With this type of temperament and adopter assessment, the adoption counselors can steer potential pet parents to meet dogs they are best suited for rather than adopting a dog which might look superficially wonderful but in fact is not suited for them.
Many shelters and rescues now have websites and even put videos of their adoptables up on YouTube. It's true that competition for healthy young purebred dogs is fierce and rescues can be very picky. BUT it can be much easier to adopt a medium-sized mixed breed dog. In your parents' case I don't think breed is nearly as important as size, health and temperament, so focus on those, and, again, go to a good shelter that does fostering and temperament assessment.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:12 PM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
It may be difficult for fosters to know whether a dog will attack a chicken. Their guess is going to be a lot better than zero knowledge, but it's difficult to say, really, without observing behavior around the potential prey animal. My dog won't go after a cat, but was given up (luckily for us) from her first adopted home after killing some chickens. In every way, she seems like the sort of dog you describe; she's a medium sized mixed-breed, laid back, just likes to be with us wherever we are, non-destructive, well-behaved, super smart. She's copascetic with cats, ignores our urban street pigeons, won't even chase a stick... but, apparently, she will kill a chicken.
She seems to be a poodle/terrier/something mix, and as mentioned above, terriers are hunting breeds, but poodles were originally also hunting dogs, so I think she definitely has that drive, though I've never personally seen her exercise it. So... those cute "Benji" type dogs? Based on my similar dog, maybe not a great chicken pal.
I notice that my dog's favorite high energy play behavior is to shake her plushy toys from side to side... as in "neck breaking." When she's frustrated, impatient or excited, that's her go-to release activity, and I'd guess that would be a behavior that would point to prey drive, so you can ask about that.
I would be looking at collie breeds if I were you. I would seek the more low-energy breed or individual dog... for example, a border collie might be too high energy, and without enough exercise might go after chickens in frustration (as may any dog at all that is bored or underexercised for their level of need for stimulation/activity, regardless of prey drive). You definitely need a smart and biddable dog, which collies usually are, and collies have traditionally been great farm dogs (in fact, "Farm Collie" is a specific reference). Here is a fascinating (to me, anyway) article on the the traditional Scotch Collie, that is (or was) almost instinct. Here's some info on the Rough Collie.
Ultimately, training will be the most important factor, whatever the breed. I'd absolutely avoid hunting and retriever breeds or mixes, get as much info as possible from a foster or original owner (and obviously a dog that already has experience around chickens would be ideal), get a smart dog that isn't stubborn because training will be important, match the mental and physical energy needs of the dog to the level of activity and stimulation they will be experiencing at your place. The most destructive dogs are always the underexercised and understimulated. (In fact, I would put money on the fact that this was what happened with my dog when she did the Chicken Crime; she needs only a medium amount of exercise, but she needs to always be with her people as an integrated part of the family, and I think she was left in a yard all on her own for protracted periods. With chickens.)
posted by taz at 2:04 AM on April 27, 2012
She seems to be a poodle/terrier/something mix, and as mentioned above, terriers are hunting breeds, but poodles were originally also hunting dogs, so I think she definitely has that drive, though I've never personally seen her exercise it. So... those cute "Benji" type dogs? Based on my similar dog, maybe not a great chicken pal.
I notice that my dog's favorite high energy play behavior is to shake her plushy toys from side to side... as in "neck breaking." When she's frustrated, impatient or excited, that's her go-to release activity, and I'd guess that would be a behavior that would point to prey drive, so you can ask about that.
I would be looking at collie breeds if I were you. I would seek the more low-energy breed or individual dog... for example, a border collie might be too high energy, and without enough exercise might go after chickens in frustration (as may any dog at all that is bored or underexercised for their level of need for stimulation/activity, regardless of prey drive). You definitely need a smart and biddable dog, which collies usually are, and collies have traditionally been great farm dogs (in fact, "Farm Collie" is a specific reference). Here is a fascinating (to me, anyway) article on the the traditional Scotch Collie, that is (or was) almost instinct. Here's some info on the Rough Collie.
Ultimately, training will be the most important factor, whatever the breed. I'd absolutely avoid hunting and retriever breeds or mixes, get as much info as possible from a foster or original owner (and obviously a dog that already has experience around chickens would be ideal), get a smart dog that isn't stubborn because training will be important, match the mental and physical energy needs of the dog to the level of activity and stimulation they will be experiencing at your place. The most destructive dogs are always the underexercised and understimulated. (In fact, I would put money on the fact that this was what happened with my dog when she did the Chicken Crime; she needs only a medium amount of exercise, but she needs to always be with her people as an integrated part of the family, and I think she was left in a yard all on her own for protracted periods. With chickens.)
posted by taz at 2:04 AM on April 27, 2012
A working dog may or may not be a good idea depending on how much time someone wants to put into training. My border Collie would chase chickens and ducks all day long (never bit, just herded them into a group which can be enough stress to kill the birds) until we put the time and effort into training him that it was not acceptable behaviour.
He is the most intelligent and anxious to please dog I have ever had and extraordinarily sensitive to my moods and routines. So much more so than any other breed I've owned (German SHorthair pointer, Boxers). But they definitely need a TON of attention, exercise, and training/work. Not everyone is cut out to be a collie (or any other working breed) owner, but for those who can handle them they are truly incredible animals.
If your parents are just looking for a dog that will be laid back, not require a lot of personal attention and training I would absolutely NOT recommend a Collie or other working dog. A golden retriever or something a little less intense would probably suit better.
posted by Beacon Inbound at 12:04 PM on April 27, 2012
He is the most intelligent and anxious to please dog I have ever had and extraordinarily sensitive to my moods and routines. So much more so than any other breed I've owned (German SHorthair pointer, Boxers). But they definitely need a TON of attention, exercise, and training/work. Not everyone is cut out to be a collie (or any other working breed) owner, but for those who can handle them they are truly incredible animals.
If your parents are just looking for a dog that will be laid back, not require a lot of personal attention and training I would absolutely NOT recommend a Collie or other working dog. A golden retriever or something a little less intense would probably suit better.
posted by Beacon Inbound at 12:04 PM on April 27, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
I love chows. The chows I have had don't chase things, aren't particularly interested in playing fetch 24/7, don't require constant attention. Just want to be petted, be a watch dog, follow you around and see what you're doing, sniff things. The one I have now is scared of cats a third of his size, and I'm sure he'd be scared of chickens too. We also live in a rural area and he doesn't go running off and escape, even though there is nothing stopping him, he just hangs out on the porch when he's by himself and follows me around when I'm out there. He is also a little smaller than the norm, and is cocker spaniel size. Again individuals will vary, especially mixes, so make sure you find out what the individual is like.
Chows might be more likely than other dogs to have certain kinds of allergies (mine does have severe allergies to a particular food ingredient and to fleas, but my prior chow didn't.) But just ask because not all of them do.
And the teddy bear thing is awesome. They don't require professional grooming. Just keep a brush around and use it absentmindedly with one hand while you are watching TV or online, and that will be enough. As long as you get the around-the-ears area regularly the rest will be fine.
posted by cairdeas at 9:01 AM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]