LSAT
March 13, 2012 11:04 PM Subscribe
Hi Mefi-ers. I'm a first year undergraduate law student in London.
Due to extreme family circumstances, my education has been disrupted until recently, when I managed to get myself into a law program at a university of london (not a top of the chain one unfortunately lol but we all have to start somewhere). I have gaps and inconsistencies in my CV (or possibly lackthereof) and after a recent culmination of emotional-pscyh-etc upheavals, have only just begun to settle into my program. I am looking to boost my CV, or at least just think ahead. I did consider the states as part of a joint degree thing with a more upper echelon UOL college, but I didn't get a chance to pursue that route.
Regardless, I am certain that I would like to do the lsat and prepare for it as early as I can so as to not be overwhelmed later on. As I understand it involves a lot of logic based questions. Can Mefi-ers recommend any sort of 'pre-lsat' material for someone whose background is mostly in humanities and social science? (I did AS level mathematics at A level and did do the SAT2 level 2 math once upon a time -when I was by far at the lowest point of my life. nothing spectacular, a 650). Maybe some logic game warm up thing? Books? Blogs? Anything, really (please).
I will be dedicating some time starting as soon as possible (this year) until the end of my degree (3-4 years) and just weave it as part of my every week or two or something. I know that the test has an expiry date, but I'm behaving contrary to my nature (reformed procrastinator/haphazard mess, basically). So I don't mind having to do it again in another however many years.
Thanks very much in advance =]
Due to extreme family circumstances, my education has been disrupted until recently, when I managed to get myself into a law program at a university of london (not a top of the chain one unfortunately lol but we all have to start somewhere). I have gaps and inconsistencies in my CV (or possibly lackthereof) and after a recent culmination of emotional-pscyh-etc upheavals, have only just begun to settle into my program. I am looking to boost my CV, or at least just think ahead. I did consider the states as part of a joint degree thing with a more upper echelon UOL college, but I didn't get a chance to pursue that route.
Regardless, I am certain that I would like to do the lsat and prepare for it as early as I can so as to not be overwhelmed later on. As I understand it involves a lot of logic based questions. Can Mefi-ers recommend any sort of 'pre-lsat' material for someone whose background is mostly in humanities and social science? (I did AS level mathematics at A level and did do the SAT2 level 2 math once upon a time -when I was by far at the lowest point of my life. nothing spectacular, a 650). Maybe some logic game warm up thing? Books? Blogs? Anything, really (please).
I will be dedicating some time starting as soon as possible (this year) until the end of my degree (3-4 years) and just weave it as part of my every week or two or something. I know that the test has an expiry date, but I'm behaving contrary to my nature (reformed procrastinator/haphazard mess, basically). So I don't mind having to do it again in another however many years.
Thanks very much in advance =]
I agree with lakeroon; taking the LSAT is a skill developed over multiple repetitions, preferably approximating the actual testing conditions. So, every Saturday, go to the library and sit for a full three-hour block of time to take a full 7-section exam (or whatever the timing and number of sections is these days). Doing a 60-minute session every day or three times a week is good, but not good enough--you really must build up your stamina with the full test.
Also, as an aside--you probably have seen any of the many, many threads about the US "law school scam" (most recently yesterday). If you're talking about getting an LLM (as there are not a lot of US law schools that offer a joint JD/foreign law degree--and those that do send US students abroad, rather than host foreign students), rest assured that it is not terribly competitive. If you have a pulse and are not on a State Department no-fly list, you can go to an illustrious US law school.
No joke (and no offense), but foreign students are just a cash cow for private law schools. You won't need a 180 on the LSAT.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:11 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, as an aside--you probably have seen any of the many, many threads about the US "law school scam" (most recently yesterday). If you're talking about getting an LLM (as there are not a lot of US law schools that offer a joint JD/foreign law degree--and those that do send US students abroad, rather than host foreign students), rest assured that it is not terribly competitive. If you have a pulse and are not on a State Department no-fly list, you can go to an illustrious US law school.
No joke (and no offense), but foreign students are just a cash cow for private law schools. You won't need a 180 on the LSAT.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:11 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Can I query why you’re intending to do LSAT at all if you’re studying in the UK?
It’s not clear to me whether you’re doing an LLB or PgDL. Further, your spelling of program suggest that you may be American.
First off the bat is that the US job marking for aspiring lawyers is famously bad at the minute. If you’re a Brit, you’re highly unlikely to be able to find a job there and you’ll have work permit issues too.
If you’re intending to work for US law firms in London, be aware that they pay a premium, even in excess of Magic Circle firms. The quid pro quo is that they recruit the very, very best. Oxbridge is typically a prerequisite and you’d need commendations, if not distinctions at PgDL and LPC. There are very few training contracts to be had at these firms and competition is cutthroat, akin to trying to get a chancery pupillage.
Bluntly, having passed LSAT is likely to make less of a difference than you might hope if you’re looking for a training contract in London. Admission to a foreign bar is interesting to recruiters but given their conservatism, someone with an IIi LLB from one of the less well-regarded University of London colleges* with either LSAT or foreign admission is likely to lose out to someone from a Russell Group university with a IIi and relevant, practical experience.
If you’re really looking to build your CV and you intend to look for work in England & Wales, then the best way to do this would be to start volunteering at your local law centre and helping out with case work. This will give you real experience of advising clients and it’s a draw to recruiters that you have experience of handling a file. The Free Representation Unit is an option but as I recall, you have to be in your last year. Your local Citizen’s Advice bureau would welcome you with open arms as a volunteer and probably has legally qualified staff working there from whom you could learn.
Alternatively, if you’re interested in the commercial route it is genuinely never too early to start looking for work experience. I’d start a little way down the top 50 so you give yourself a chance to get a sense of practice before you pitch up at the larger firms so you impress when you get there.
*You’ve been careful to avoid stating which college you are studying at but it’s worth noting by the way that King’s, UCL and LSE well regarded law schools.
posted by dmt at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2012
It’s not clear to me whether you’re doing an LLB or PgDL. Further, your spelling of program suggest that you may be American.
First off the bat is that the US job marking for aspiring lawyers is famously bad at the minute. If you’re a Brit, you’re highly unlikely to be able to find a job there and you’ll have work permit issues too.
If you’re intending to work for US law firms in London, be aware that they pay a premium, even in excess of Magic Circle firms. The quid pro quo is that they recruit the very, very best. Oxbridge is typically a prerequisite and you’d need commendations, if not distinctions at PgDL and LPC. There are very few training contracts to be had at these firms and competition is cutthroat, akin to trying to get a chancery pupillage.
Bluntly, having passed LSAT is likely to make less of a difference than you might hope if you’re looking for a training contract in London. Admission to a foreign bar is interesting to recruiters but given their conservatism, someone with an IIi LLB from one of the less well-regarded University of London colleges* with either LSAT or foreign admission is likely to lose out to someone from a Russell Group university with a IIi and relevant, practical experience.
If you’re really looking to build your CV and you intend to look for work in England & Wales, then the best way to do this would be to start volunteering at your local law centre and helping out with case work. This will give you real experience of advising clients and it’s a draw to recruiters that you have experience of handling a file. The Free Representation Unit is an option but as I recall, you have to be in your last year. Your local Citizen’s Advice bureau would welcome you with open arms as a volunteer and probably has legally qualified staff working there from whom you could learn.
Alternatively, if you’re interested in the commercial route it is genuinely never too early to start looking for work experience. I’d start a little way down the top 50 so you give yourself a chance to get a sense of practice before you pitch up at the larger firms so you impress when you get there.
*You’ve been careful to avoid stating which college you are studying at but it’s worth noting by the way that King’s, UCL and LSE well regarded law schools.
posted by dmt at 7:01 AM on March 14, 2012
You can buy books of prior administered LSATs like this. I would get all of them if you can afford it and work through them. Note that the critical reading sections became noticeably tougher about five years ago, so don't get complacent if you are acing the old ones. I presume there are LSAT classes taught somewhere in London. Many US students take these courses; I think they're overrated and didn't take one myself, but it depends on how you learn.
I would echo, however, that it is unclear to me why you're taking the LSAT. LLM programs don't even require it. Perhaps it serves some purpose within the UK that I'm not aware of. Can you clarify?
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 2:20 PM on March 14, 2012
I would echo, however, that it is unclear to me why you're taking the LSAT. LLM programs don't even require it. Perhaps it serves some purpose within the UK that I'm not aware of. Can you clarify?
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 2:20 PM on March 14, 2012
PowerScore games bible and reasoning bibles. It's been a few years since I took the LSAT, these raised my diagnostic score (practice tests) from 160ish to 170 - 175 range, ended up with a 173 on my LSAT. I did not end up at a t14 school. If you have time/can afford a prep class wouldn't be bad either. The LSAT is easily beatable.
Good luck!
posted by aorkis at 3:24 PM on March 14, 2012
Good luck!
posted by aorkis at 3:24 PM on March 14, 2012
Could you clarify what you are planning to do with your LSAT score? If you're thinking of using it to boost your CV, I would maybe reconsider that. In North America anyway, it's generally frowned upon to list your LSAT score on a CV or resume. Perhaps if you're a 1L applying for summer positions and you don't have your first year grades yet an LSAT would be helpful, but otherwise it could hurt more than help.
As for studying, I agree with the above that the best cheap way to practice is to purchase books of old tests with answer keys, making sure to note if the test format has changed since then. And absolutely what Admiral Haddock said, timed sessions and full mock tests. LSAT questions in themselves are not difficult, anyone with ample time could do very well on the test. The hard part is getting through the questions with speed, and doing it for hours on end without losing your concentration.
posted by keep it under cover at 4:33 PM on March 14, 2012
As for studying, I agree with the above that the best cheap way to practice is to purchase books of old tests with answer keys, making sure to note if the test format has changed since then. And absolutely what Admiral Haddock said, timed sessions and full mock tests. LSAT questions in themselves are not difficult, anyone with ample time could do very well on the test. The hard part is getting through the questions with speed, and doing it for hours on end without losing your concentration.
posted by keep it under cover at 4:33 PM on March 14, 2012
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posted by lakeroon at 3:02 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]