finding software jobs in europe
January 11, 2012 5:06 PM Subscribe
What is the likelihood of finding entry level software dev jobs in Europe as an American CS student?
I'm finishing up my computer science degree and will probably study abroad in France during fall of my last year. I'd like to use this time to maybe land a job in Europe. As far as work experience goes, I've had a number of internships during the past few summers and work a web dev job during the school year.
A few issues:
- I realize that language will be a pretty big issue during interviews (although my dad seems to have managed fine getting software jobs in the US despite minimal English), but would this mean that I'm limited to the UK? I doubt my French will suddenly improve to the point where I can perform flawlessly during interviews.
- What's the job market in Europe like for software devs? Which countries are better than others?
- What's the visa situation like? I've looked a bit at the UK and it seems like I'd have to get a company to sponsor me, but I don't know about the rest.
I'm finishing up my computer science degree and will probably study abroad in France during fall of my last year. I'd like to use this time to maybe land a job in Europe. As far as work experience goes, I've had a number of internships during the past few summers and work a web dev job during the school year.
A few issues:
- I realize that language will be a pretty big issue during interviews (although my dad seems to have managed fine getting software jobs in the US despite minimal English), but would this mean that I'm limited to the UK? I doubt my French will suddenly improve to the point where I can perform flawlessly during interviews.
- What's the job market in Europe like for software devs? Which countries are better than others?
- What's the visa situation like? I've looked a bit at the UK and it seems like I'd have to get a company to sponsor me, but I don't know about the rest.
Google also has offices in Germany. A friend of mine was hired there and he doesn't even speak German. He was an industry hire though, ymmv.
posted by crazycanuck at 5:29 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by crazycanuck at 5:29 PM on January 11, 2012
- What's the visa situation like? I've looked a bit at the UK and it seems like I'd have to get a company to sponsor me, but I don't know about the rest.
What's your citizenship situation? (Do you happen to be an EU citizen?)
Anecdotally, I do know someone with no connection to the UK who was invited for an interview in Britain straight out of undergrad. He was a math major in the US and it was a vaguely tech-y job.
posted by hoyland at 5:38 PM on January 11, 2012
What's your citizenship situation? (Do you happen to be an EU citizen?)
Anecdotally, I do know someone with no connection to the UK who was invited for an interview in Britain straight out of undergrad. He was a math major in the US and it was a vaguely tech-y job.
posted by hoyland at 5:38 PM on January 11, 2012
Response by poster: > What's your citizenship situation? (Do you happen to be an EU citizen?)
Unfortunately, not an EU citizen. I have a US passport.
posted by movicont at 6:32 PM on January 11, 2012
Unfortunately, not an EU citizen. I have a US passport.
posted by movicont at 6:32 PM on January 11, 2012
As you guess visas and language may be an issue, but there are options.
Firstly there are some EU countries that are fairly easy going with handing out passports to anyone that has a loose connection with them, including Ireland and Spain. (Things may have changed in the last few years, but that certainly used to be the case.)
So if you can claim some European ancestry somewhere down the line, check out that possibility, it will make life much easier. Once you are a citizen of one EU country, you are automatically entitled to work in the others.
As for language, apart from the UK and Ireland, English is also the working language in many mulitinational or pan-national companies everywhere. So there certainly are jobs where fluency in a local language is not an absolute must.
Finally, something to also bear in mind is that many orgs look at their entry level grad hires as a long term investment. The process of hiring you, training you, and getting you up to speed is expensive and what you contribute in your first year doesn't necessarily cover it. So a lot of orgs looking at you will be wondering if you are likely to stick around for a few years. A convincing answer about why you see your future in country X, or with company Y will also help.
posted by philipy at 7:46 PM on January 11, 2012
Firstly there are some EU countries that are fairly easy going with handing out passports to anyone that has a loose connection with them, including Ireland and Spain. (Things may have changed in the last few years, but that certainly used to be the case.)
So if you can claim some European ancestry somewhere down the line, check out that possibility, it will make life much easier. Once you are a citizen of one EU country, you are automatically entitled to work in the others.
As for language, apart from the UK and Ireland, English is also the working language in many mulitinational or pan-national companies everywhere. So there certainly are jobs where fluency in a local language is not an absolute must.
Finally, something to also bear in mind is that many orgs look at their entry level grad hires as a long term investment. The process of hiring you, training you, and getting you up to speed is expensive and what you contribute in your first year doesn't necessarily cover it. So a lot of orgs looking at you will be wondering if you are likely to stick around for a few years. A convincing answer about why you see your future in country X, or with company Y will also help.
posted by philipy at 7:46 PM on January 11, 2012
Visa situation and the shortness of your stay will probably be bigger issues than the language. We've hired several English-only people, even though only a minority of the current employees is (barely) fluent in English. But as a rule, we don't hire people who will stay with us for less than a year. And if you're a foreign student on an exchange program, it is probable you won't stay for long.
Visa requirements are different depending on your situation. Will you be participating in an exchange program? In that case, you'll probably be issued a student visa. You may be able to work part-time while on a student visa, but in some places even this will be prohibited and if you do work, it'll be regarded as illegal and your visa cancelled. If you come over on your own, you might get a tourist visa, which also (usually) completely forbids any kind of work. If you want to get a worker's visa, yes, you need a company sponsoring you that will submit some visa paperwork on your behalf - before you even enter the EU. Which means you would have to have a job lined up before you come here.
Now, I don't want to scare you off completely with all of this. Getting a job or an internship is still possible. But I'd urge you to go digging for information (from reputable sources, not crowd wisdom ;)) and have a clear plan before you buy airplane tickets and whizz off to France. :) I'd recommend researching official government websites of countries you're interested in (there are always differences in national legislation) and finding the nearest embassies and asking them directly.
Good luck!
posted by gakiko at 11:24 PM on January 11, 2012
Visa requirements are different depending on your situation. Will you be participating in an exchange program? In that case, you'll probably be issued a student visa. You may be able to work part-time while on a student visa, but in some places even this will be prohibited and if you do work, it'll be regarded as illegal and your visa cancelled. If you come over on your own, you might get a tourist visa, which also (usually) completely forbids any kind of work. If you want to get a worker's visa, yes, you need a company sponsoring you that will submit some visa paperwork on your behalf - before you even enter the EU. Which means you would have to have a job lined up before you come here.
Now, I don't want to scare you off completely with all of this. Getting a job or an internship is still possible. But I'd urge you to go digging for information (from reputable sources, not crowd wisdom ;)) and have a clear plan before you buy airplane tickets and whizz off to France. :) I'd recommend researching official government websites of countries you're interested in (there are always differences in national legislation) and finding the nearest embassies and asking them directly.
Good luck!
posted by gakiko at 11:24 PM on January 11, 2012
That tier two visa you linked above has gotten very difficult to get. There are now quotas on how many are handed out each month (with all the applications over the quote rolled over to the next month) meaning it can take a long time to get one. So many places that traditionally used them, Universities etc, now refuse to even try. So keep that in mind when you're looking, i.e be really upfront about your visa status (or lack of) when approaching companies and actively ask them if they'll go through the system with you. You may also need to apply for the visa from your home country, so can't get it while you're in France. I haven't been able to clarify that one fully though so check into it.
Another place to consider is Ireland (i.e. the other English-as-first-langauge country in Europe). They actually don't hand out citizenship or ancestry type visas easily any more, you need a grandparent who was born here, but they do have a specific work permit aimed at people in certain industries and software development qualifies for this. It's called the Green Card. You do need to be offered a job that lasts two years or more, but at the same time there are software companies hiring and many of them have graduate development programs or graduate jobs which are aimed at people just like you.
The Netherlands and Scandinavia also have a lot of English speaking business and I know the former at least has a decent IT industry. There are English-speaking roles in major cities in many Western European countries too, and lots of places have job advertisements online so you can do some digging now. You can look up the visa rules online for each place you're interested in and see where it's worth directing your search. The work permit/visa is going to be your biggest hurdle, then being hired as a foreigner is your second biggest (we've been surprised at the level of weird discrimination when looking for a software job for my husband in Ireland). Your language skills may be an issue but probably not as big a one as the legal aspects, so sort them out first.
posted by shelleycat at 12:56 AM on January 12, 2012
Another place to consider is Ireland (i.e. the other English-as-first-langauge country in Europe). They actually don't hand out citizenship or ancestry type visas easily any more, you need a grandparent who was born here, but they do have a specific work permit aimed at people in certain industries and software development qualifies for this. It's called the Green Card. You do need to be offered a job that lasts two years or more, but at the same time there are software companies hiring and many of them have graduate development programs or graduate jobs which are aimed at people just like you.
The Netherlands and Scandinavia also have a lot of English speaking business and I know the former at least has a decent IT industry. There are English-speaking roles in major cities in many Western European countries too, and lots of places have job advertisements online so you can do some digging now. You can look up the visa rules online for each place you're interested in and see where it's worth directing your search. The work permit/visa is going to be your biggest hurdle, then being hired as a foreigner is your second biggest (we've been surprised at the level of weird discrimination when looking for a software job for my husband in Ireland). Your language skills may be an issue but probably not as big a one as the legal aspects, so sort them out first.
posted by shelleycat at 12:56 AM on January 12, 2012
Ask around your university. If you have programs for study or internship abroad, they may also be open to recent alums. In the case of my alma mater, the 3-month internship programs also do 12-month placements for recent grads.
Other university resources: Visit the career fairs, having done homework on which companies work where in Europe. Ask about opportunities in Europe. Visit your alumni office. Find out who your alumni are, talk to them, see if any of them would be interested in you.
As far as language: I strongly advise you to pick a country you are interested in and a language, then start studying that language. Nothing says commitment like "I am currently studying X language." Ideally you can fit said study into a formal structure that demonstrates your dedication. "I listen to podcasts" is way below "I signed up for another course," but it is better than nothing. When choosing a language, think about what you are interested in, but also consider where there are jobs in your field (probably not Greek then), and which have the broadest reach (French is a good possibility).
If the company is interested in you, they will take care of all of the bureaucratic work.
Source: I've moved from the US to Japan and then to France, but I am not in your field.
posted by whatzit at 2:48 AM on January 12, 2012
Other university resources: Visit the career fairs, having done homework on which companies work where in Europe. Ask about opportunities in Europe. Visit your alumni office. Find out who your alumni are, talk to them, see if any of them would be interested in you.
As far as language: I strongly advise you to pick a country you are interested in and a language, then start studying that language. Nothing says commitment like "I am currently studying X language." Ideally you can fit said study into a formal structure that demonstrates your dedication. "I listen to podcasts" is way below "I signed up for another course," but it is better than nothing. When choosing a language, think about what you are interested in, but also consider where there are jobs in your field (probably not Greek then), and which have the broadest reach (French is a good possibility).
If the company is interested in you, they will take care of all of the bureaucratic work.
Source: I've moved from the US to Japan and then to France, but I am not in your field.
posted by whatzit at 2:48 AM on January 12, 2012
Response by poster: To answer some questions, yep, I'll be part of an exchange program. I've been studying French for a while, so I thought it would be a good (and fun) idea. Also, I'm looking for post-graduation jobs, so I'd be free to move to where my job is. I had thought that being there would've helped in finding jobs (easier to interview?), but would looking for jobs while on a student visa be a problem?
And... none of the ancestry-to-citizen stuff would work for me -- I'm of Chinese ancestry. :P
I'll ask around at my university once school starts up again. Thanks for the answers everyone!
posted by movicont at 10:17 AM on January 12, 2012
And... none of the ancestry-to-citizen stuff would work for me -- I'm of Chinese ancestry. :P
I'll ask around at my university once school starts up again. Thanks for the answers everyone!
posted by movicont at 10:17 AM on January 12, 2012
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posted by jacalata at 5:22 PM on January 11, 2012