Is there ever a happy ending for something like this?
January 5, 2012 7:50 AM Subscribe
Am I setting myself up for hurt? Should I go for this or bail now?
So, I've started dating on a regular basis fairly recently and have been going through a series of 4 week relationships - they're awesome at first and then it fizzles out, either on my end or on theirs. I haven't been too worried about this, because I figure I'm learning something each time and each person takes me closer to the last person I'll date, which is my ultimate goal.
So, I meet this guy and I _really_ like him and he definitely seems to really like me. We see each other 4 times during the first week we've known each other and I think 4 more times during the last week. We've only known each other two weeks. We met on OKCupid and he told me that he took his profile down after we'd been dating a week. (I was already planning to quit OKC so I had already taken my profile down shortly after we met.)
He's been the one initiating the dates and he invited me to go on a trip with him at the end of this month. I'm really not used to things moving this fast but, again, I really like him.
His problem? Uh, he's still married and will probably be for quite some time because he and his wife are fighting over custody of their children. It may actually go to trial. Also, he didn't want the divorce, is still sad over the fact that it's happening _and_ only moved out in July. To me these are all big red flags that if I keep dating him, he's going to decide at some point that he should have dated more rather than just rushing into a relationship with me. I'm at the point where I want a real relationship, not one that feels shaky. And to top this all off, he told me recently that he started dating his soon-to-be-ex-wife while he was still married to his first wife! Mitigating factor - he was married for 16 years to his second wife. He was only married to his first wife for 18 months.
My problem? I really, really like him and this has been a total whirlwind and I really liked that until a couple of days ago when he started seeming distracted and like he was sort of pulling away and I starting feeling like I could feel him regretting how fast all the stuff between us had gone down. Also, all this information has come out in bits and pieces so it's only recently reached the point where all added together, it sounds bad. And finally, he sent me this cartoon yesterday, which I didn't know how to take:
http://xkcd.com/310/
The reasonable thing to do is write this guy off. But, if he's just the kind of guy who likes being in a relationship, and if he's going to quickly get into another committed relationship, then I'd really like it to be with me.
I've never really heard of this sort of situation ending well and if this isn't, then I guess I'd like to chalk it up to another step down the road and dial it way back. But I'm afraid if I do this, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and he'll move on to someone who doesn't hold back as much (and holding back too much has been a problem for me in previous relationships).
So, to sum up - I like this guy but I'm afraid of getting hurt because I like this guy and he's got issues. I'd love to hear some neutral advice and/or personal stories.
So, I've started dating on a regular basis fairly recently and have been going through a series of 4 week relationships - they're awesome at first and then it fizzles out, either on my end or on theirs. I haven't been too worried about this, because I figure I'm learning something each time and each person takes me closer to the last person I'll date, which is my ultimate goal.
So, I meet this guy and I _really_ like him and he definitely seems to really like me. We see each other 4 times during the first week we've known each other and I think 4 more times during the last week. We've only known each other two weeks. We met on OKCupid and he told me that he took his profile down after we'd been dating a week. (I was already planning to quit OKC so I had already taken my profile down shortly after we met.)
He's been the one initiating the dates and he invited me to go on a trip with him at the end of this month. I'm really not used to things moving this fast but, again, I really like him.
His problem? Uh, he's still married and will probably be for quite some time because he and his wife are fighting over custody of their children. It may actually go to trial. Also, he didn't want the divorce, is still sad over the fact that it's happening _and_ only moved out in July. To me these are all big red flags that if I keep dating him, he's going to decide at some point that he should have dated more rather than just rushing into a relationship with me. I'm at the point where I want a real relationship, not one that feels shaky. And to top this all off, he told me recently that he started dating his soon-to-be-ex-wife while he was still married to his first wife! Mitigating factor - he was married for 16 years to his second wife. He was only married to his first wife for 18 months.
My problem? I really, really like him and this has been a total whirlwind and I really liked that until a couple of days ago when he started seeming distracted and like he was sort of pulling away and I starting feeling like I could feel him regretting how fast all the stuff between us had gone down. Also, all this information has come out in bits and pieces so it's only recently reached the point where all added together, it sounds bad. And finally, he sent me this cartoon yesterday, which I didn't know how to take:
http://xkcd.com/310/
The reasonable thing to do is write this guy off. But, if he's just the kind of guy who likes being in a relationship, and if he's going to quickly get into another committed relationship, then I'd really like it to be with me.
I've never really heard of this sort of situation ending well and if this isn't, then I guess I'd like to chalk it up to another step down the road and dial it way back. But I'm afraid if I do this, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and he'll move on to someone who doesn't hold back as much (and holding back too much has been a problem for me in previous relationships).
So, to sum up - I like this guy but I'm afraid of getting hurt because I like this guy and he's got issues. I'd love to hear some neutral advice and/or personal stories.
I'm at the point where I want a real relationship, not one that feels shaky.
How does this one feel?
posted by headnsouth at 8:01 AM on January 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
How does this one feel?
posted by headnsouth at 8:01 AM on January 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
If you were one of my friends and you came to me with this story, I'd tell you to get the hell out of Dodge as soon as possible. I know it's hard, but listen to your rational brain -- he's still married. He didn't want to get divorced. He has already admitted to you that he's the kind of guy who finds it easy to be disloyal.
When I met my ex, he was also on his way out of a long-term relationship. He even asked me for advice on how to break up with her. I saw those red flags and I ignored them, against my better judgement. He ended up cheating on me twice. Now I realise that I should always, always trust myself first. It cost me a whole lot of pain to learn that lesson.
Save yourself that pain. Trust yourself. You've only been dating two weeks -- get out now, while it's easy.
posted by fight or flight at 8:02 AM on January 5, 2012 [13 favorites]
When I met my ex, he was also on his way out of a long-term relationship. He even asked me for advice on how to break up with her. I saw those red flags and I ignored them, against my better judgement. He ended up cheating on me twice. Now I realise that I should always, always trust myself first. It cost me a whole lot of pain to learn that lesson.
Save yourself that pain. Trust yourself. You've only been dating two weeks -- get out now, while it's easy.
posted by fight or flight at 8:02 AM on January 5, 2012 [13 favorites]
Why is it either or? Could you not go on a trip and date maybe one date a week?
I'm seeing likely red flags - mainly the amount of time you're spending together.
When you say this came out in bits and pieces, do you mean that he has volunteered more and more information as time goes by (could be understandable) or that you learned about the wife, custody battle, etc because you ask questions when things don't make sense (danger danger!)
If your state has legal separation and he is completely moved out, you should take things slowly and see how it goes.
My concern would be that he is an easily attached type, and his way of getting back to his comfort zone is to grab the first woman who's not obviously a monster. (which you seem to suspect because you cite the cartoon).
One thing to should keep in mind is that he is probably going through drastic changes. Even if the marriage was emotionally over for years, the issues around not living with his child are nothing to be taken lightly.
He should be taking things slowly for that reason alone.
Can you cut down to one date a week and not communicating every day? That might give you some perspective.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:03 AM on January 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm seeing likely red flags - mainly the amount of time you're spending together.
When you say this came out in bits and pieces, do you mean that he has volunteered more and more information as time goes by (could be understandable) or that you learned about the wife, custody battle, etc because you ask questions when things don't make sense (danger danger!)
If your state has legal separation and he is completely moved out, you should take things slowly and see how it goes.
My concern would be that he is an easily attached type, and his way of getting back to his comfort zone is to grab the first woman who's not obviously a monster. (which you seem to suspect because you cite the cartoon).
One thing to should keep in mind is that he is probably going through drastic changes. Even if the marriage was emotionally over for years, the issues around not living with his child are nothing to be taken lightly.
He should be taking things slowly for that reason alone.
Can you cut down to one date a week and not communicating every day? That might give you some perspective.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:03 AM on January 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Tell him that if he's still interested in dating when he's COMPLETELY finished with his divorce (and the fallout) then he can come and look you up.
That comic implies, to me, that he's beginning to idealize you and view you as his salvation from the mess he's currently in. That's the biggest red flag in all of this, as pertains to you anyway. Being the "other woman" isn't fun -- it's degrading and stressful and often does not end well, and it's a lousy foundation to build a relationship on.
You deserve to be with someone who has themselves sorted out.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:10 AM on January 5, 2012 [18 favorites]
That comic implies, to me, that he's beginning to idealize you and view you as his salvation from the mess he's currently in. That's the biggest red flag in all of this, as pertains to you anyway. Being the "other woman" isn't fun -- it's degrading and stressful and often does not end well, and it's a lousy foundation to build a relationship on.
You deserve to be with someone who has themselves sorted out.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:10 AM on January 5, 2012 [18 favorites]
A man who TWICE made a lifelong commitment to someone only to head for divorce is either a man who doesn't take his commitments seriously or who is a very poor judge of character in choosing wives. Either way, this is no sort of man you'd want to choose deliberately no matter how nice it feels to be with him. Marriages don't survive and thrive on feelings they do so on commitment.
Do not pursue this man. Do not pursue this man. Do not pursue this man.
posted by TestamentToGrace at 8:12 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Do not pursue this man. Do not pursue this man. Do not pursue this man.
posted by TestamentToGrace at 8:12 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
DON'T DO IT!
I learned the creepy way: people who want to be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship will not treat you the way that YOU want or deserve to be treated. Instead, they will simply treat you the way that THEY perceive you should be treated. This is creepy, insulting and has a big ol' mess written all over it.
I know you're excited, but wouldn't it be so much better to hold out for someone who is just as excited about you rather than just a relationship? You deserve better. I say cordially end it and start anew with someone awesome. He's out there, believe it or not.
posted by floweredfish at 8:15 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I learned the creepy way: people who want to be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship will not treat you the way that YOU want or deserve to be treated. Instead, they will simply treat you the way that THEY perceive you should be treated. This is creepy, insulting and has a big ol' mess written all over it.
I know you're excited, but wouldn't it be so much better to hold out for someone who is just as excited about you rather than just a relationship? You deserve better. I say cordially end it and start anew with someone awesome. He's out there, believe it or not.
posted by floweredfish at 8:15 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also: See this Post.
This is a creepy situation.
posted by floweredfish at 8:17 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is a creepy situation.
posted by floweredfish at 8:17 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Him being or becoming a good partner for you is contingent on both of your behavior, but I would like to offer a few red flags for you to look for. Really these come down to him still being deep in his marriage and not able to see it. It is important that dating for him is not about finding some ally in a fight against his ex.
So, the flags:
1) Does he badmouth his ex? Dates are supposed to be fun for both parties–not free therapy for him.
2) Does he make his time with you dependent on his ex’s schedule? If his ex is jerking around with child visitations, he needs to manage his ex, not you. No sane person is going to live life according to the dictates of some third party he/she doesn’t know.
3) Does he do more for his ex, give more to his ex, or consider his ex’s feelings more than you? If all of his energy and resources are going to the ex, that is not good.
4) Does he tell you how great his marriage was non stop? How great the sex was? How in love he was? Go back if it was so great.
5) Does he decide to go back to the marriage when he is in a relationship with you in a last ditch effort to "fix" it? He needs to handle the inevitable confusion; not drag some innocent person into it.
6) Does he use his kids as a channel of information to let his ex know that he is seeing someone new?
7) Does he bring you to family events where his ex will be too early on in the relationship? Is he casting you in his revenge scenarios?
8) Does he expect you to pay for everything (or more than is fair) because his ex has all of his money and lawyers are expensive?
Please note, I am not saying that these flags make him a Bad Guy. Just that they could indicate that he is not yet "finished" with his marriage and ready to be with you in a meaningful and dedicated way.
Some people go from one marriage to another and live happily ever after. Others ruin one life after another until they get their baggage from their previous marriage worked out. There is no way for us to tell you which of the many paths he will take. Go into this with eyes wide open and be prepared to bail if he is unable to meet even your most basic relationship needs. His failed marriage is not your fault, and you should not be made to suffer because of it. If you are, then he is not ready for a new relationship.
posted by Shouraku at 8:23 AM on January 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
So, the flags:
1) Does he badmouth his ex? Dates are supposed to be fun for both parties–not free therapy for him.
2) Does he make his time with you dependent on his ex’s schedule? If his ex is jerking around with child visitations, he needs to manage his ex, not you. No sane person is going to live life according to the dictates of some third party he/she doesn’t know.
3) Does he do more for his ex, give more to his ex, or consider his ex’s feelings more than you? If all of his energy and resources are going to the ex, that is not good.
4) Does he tell you how great his marriage was non stop? How great the sex was? How in love he was? Go back if it was so great.
5) Does he decide to go back to the marriage when he is in a relationship with you in a last ditch effort to "fix" it? He needs to handle the inevitable confusion; not drag some innocent person into it.
6) Does he use his kids as a channel of information to let his ex know that he is seeing someone new?
7) Does he bring you to family events where his ex will be too early on in the relationship? Is he casting you in his revenge scenarios?
8) Does he expect you to pay for everything (or more than is fair) because his ex has all of his money and lawyers are expensive?
Please note, I am not saying that these flags make him a Bad Guy. Just that they could indicate that he is not yet "finished" with his marriage and ready to be with you in a meaningful and dedicated way.
Some people go from one marriage to another and live happily ever after. Others ruin one life after another until they get their baggage from their previous marriage worked out. There is no way for us to tell you which of the many paths he will take. Go into this with eyes wide open and be prepared to bail if he is unable to meet even your most basic relationship needs. His failed marriage is not your fault, and you should not be made to suffer because of it. If you are, then he is not ready for a new relationship.
posted by Shouraku at 8:23 AM on January 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
I think you need to back up a bit, because "... he and his wife are fighting over custody of their children. It may actually go to trial. Also, he didn't want the divorce, is still sad over the fact that it's happening _and_ only moved out in July". There's an awful lot of potential for drama and crisis and anger being splashed around - do you really want to get drawn into all of this with someone you've known for only two weeks and who is already only telling you things in bits and pieces and who is getting distant?
The worst bit for me is the thing about him not wanting the divorce - that would make me feel very uncomfortable. I know you feel like you don't want to lose him, and that you've lost out in the past by being too reticent, but I would say trust your instincts on this one - if it's meant to be it will happen further down the road when things have settled down. There's nothing to say you can't keep in touch as friends, but to me it looks like a lot of heartache on a plate as it is.
On preview, Shouraku sums it up well.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 8:26 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
The worst bit for me is the thing about him not wanting the divorce - that would make me feel very uncomfortable. I know you feel like you don't want to lose him, and that you've lost out in the past by being too reticent, but I would say trust your instincts on this one - if it's meant to be it will happen further down the road when things have settled down. There's nothing to say you can't keep in touch as friends, but to me it looks like a lot of heartache on a plate as it is.
On preview, Shouraku sums it up well.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 8:26 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
This sounds all kinds of bad. The speed at which he is going, the "You'll date me? great! I'll delete my profile and declare you my soul mate now!" knee jerk, the still being sad over his divorce.... you need to step back and take a few breaths. If I were you take a huge step back, get some distance, and see what you feel like with fresher eyes.
For what it is worth, I'm in a similar (yet very different) situation. I'm in a relationship with a man who is currently legally married and divorcing from his wife whom he had been married to for a long time. In his case it was her that intitated the divorce, like in your case, and they have a child and custody to sort out. The difference is my partner has fully accepted the divorce before we got together (yours hasn't), it was mutual (he was already talking to lawyers himself when she declared she wanted a divorce), and he sees the divorce as been a wholly positive thing. He also wanted to wait a bit before he dated again to sort himself out and get traction. (This didn't actually happen for a multitude of reasons and we got together sooner than either of us would have expected or liked but what can you do...).
posted by gwenlister at 8:32 AM on January 5, 2012
For what it is worth, I'm in a similar (yet very different) situation. I'm in a relationship with a man who is currently legally married and divorcing from his wife whom he had been married to for a long time. In his case it was her that intitated the divorce, like in your case, and they have a child and custody to sort out. The difference is my partner has fully accepted the divorce before we got together (yours hasn't), it was mutual (he was already talking to lawyers himself when she declared she wanted a divorce), and he sees the divorce as been a wholly positive thing. He also wanted to wait a bit before he dated again to sort himself out and get traction. (This didn't actually happen for a multitude of reasons and we got together sooner than either of us would have expected or liked but what can you do...).
posted by gwenlister at 8:32 AM on January 5, 2012
I'm really not used to things moving this fast
he's still married
he's still married and will probably be for quite some time
he and his wife are fighting over custody of their children. It may actually go to trial
he didn't want the divorce
[he's] still sad over the fact that it's happening
I could feel him regretting how fast all the stuff between us had gone down
all this information has come out in bits and pieces
The reasonable thing to do is write this guy off
I've never really heard of this sort of situation ending well
I'm afraid of getting hurt
You can end this relationship now with your dignity and sanity intact, or you can end it later (or find it ended for you if his wife takes him back) when you're a hollowed-out shell of a person who can't even recognize herself in the mirror anymore.
posted by jingzuo at 8:33 AM on January 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
he's still married
he's still married and will probably be for quite some time
he and his wife are fighting over custody of their children. It may actually go to trial
he didn't want the divorce
[he's] still sad over the fact that it's happening
I could feel him regretting how fast all the stuff between us had gone down
all this information has come out in bits and pieces
The reasonable thing to do is write this guy off
I've never really heard of this sort of situation ending well
I'm afraid of getting hurt
You can end this relationship now with your dignity and sanity intact, or you can end it later (or find it ended for you if his wife takes him back) when you're a hollowed-out shell of a person who can't even recognize herself in the mirror anymore.
posted by jingzuo at 8:33 AM on January 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
Even before you got to the "he's still married" part, I was concerned, because I'm sensitive to "this relationship is moving too fast" language. That's a dynamic I've been in, where I found myself deeply emotionally invested before I had a chance to learn what I was getting into, which was an ongoing catastrophe.
Your feelings are racing ahead of your judgment, and I think he is (probably unconsciously, maybe not) encouraging this, because he knows that he's not a great prospect right now. But he's lonely. He hasn't been single in at least 18 years. He really wants a partner. Even with the greatest compassion for this man, do you believe that he has the emotional flexibility to meet your needs?
In the relationship which I feel was "fast forwarded", my partner was very much a serial monogamist. He is now on his third marriage (fourth engagement), and his current relationship started immediately after his previous marriage ended.
It's hard for me to say anything other than DOOM DOOM DooooOOOOooooM because that feeling of "I can see this is going to be crazy and chaotic but I love him!" is so familiar and dreadful to me. So I'll just admit to being heavily biased, and remind you that wisdom is learning from other people's experience.
posted by endless_forms at 8:42 AM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
Your feelings are racing ahead of your judgment, and I think he is (probably unconsciously, maybe not) encouraging this, because he knows that he's not a great prospect right now. But he's lonely. He hasn't been single in at least 18 years. He really wants a partner. Even with the greatest compassion for this man, do you believe that he has the emotional flexibility to meet your needs?
In the relationship which I feel was "fast forwarded", my partner was very much a serial monogamist. He is now on his third marriage (fourth engagement), and his current relationship started immediately after his previous marriage ended.
It's hard for me to say anything other than DOOM DOOM DooooOOOOooooM because that feeling of "I can see this is going to be crazy and chaotic but I love him!" is so familiar and dreadful to me. So I'll just admit to being heavily biased, and remind you that wisdom is learning from other people's experience.
posted by endless_forms at 8:42 AM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
What is it that you really, really like about this guy? Yes, it's fun to have a new relationship, but you've known him only 2 weeks. That's not really enough time to assess the situation. It IS a whirlwind and you probably aren't thinking clearly. Go on some more dates, give him time to reveal who he really is, rather than the person you want him to be, and then see if he's worth sticking it out for.
posted by Sal and Richard at 9:01 AM on January 5, 2012
posted by Sal and Richard at 9:01 AM on January 5, 2012
That he sent you that comic alone says that his judgment is questionable, his intentions are unclear even to himself, and he doesn't take the situation with his children and former wife seriously. There's also the issue of a man who's nearly forty communicating in riddles. It comes off as juvenile and silly.
I guess the question is do you think this is the best you can do and, if so, why?
posted by TryTheTilapia at 9:09 AM on January 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
I guess the question is do you think this is the best you can do and, if so, why?
posted by TryTheTilapia at 9:09 AM on January 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
But I'm afraid if I do this, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and he'll move on to someone who doesn't hold back as much
What? How does your self have anything to do with another person's actions? He could move on to crack or competitive baking or congress, that's got nothing to do with you.
I personally think that people in the process of a divorce with children should maybe put up with being single for a minute and make their children their priority. Do you want to be with someone who won't do that? Do you want to be that girlfriend?
Lots of people are fun and awesome and chemistry-pinging and yet are complete trainwrecks (sometimes it is because they are complete trainwrecks. Drama feels like excitement). Just because you've got the two-week goofies with this guy does not mean it is your DESTINY! to be with him. Go find that feeling with someone who's got his shit together.
Please don't do this just because you think this is the best you can do.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:21 AM on January 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
What? How does your self have anything to do with another person's actions? He could move on to crack or competitive baking or congress, that's got nothing to do with you.
I personally think that people in the process of a divorce with children should maybe put up with being single for a minute and make their children their priority. Do you want to be with someone who won't do that? Do you want to be that girlfriend?
Lots of people are fun and awesome and chemistry-pinging and yet are complete trainwrecks (sometimes it is because they are complete trainwrecks. Drama feels like excitement). Just because you've got the two-week goofies with this guy does not mean it is your DESTINY! to be with him. Go find that feeling with someone who's got his shit together.
Please don't do this just because you think this is the best you can do.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:21 AM on January 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
Get the hell out! DTMFA!
Seriously.
You saw each other four times the first week? And then the second? And you're making plans for the future?
Rebound. Rebound. Rebound.
If you keep getting dumped after "whirlwind" quasi-relationships, don't let yourself get sucked into the whirlwind.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:29 AM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
Seriously.
You saw each other four times the first week? And then the second? And you're making plans for the future?
Rebound. Rebound. Rebound.
If you keep getting dumped after "whirlwind" quasi-relationships, don't let yourself get sucked into the whirlwind.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:29 AM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
I've never really heard of this sort of situation ending well
I suspect that's because people aren't real gung-ho to advertise how closely together their relationship endings come to their new relationships beginning. Or overlapping. I'm more than happy to follow the same instinct you seem to - that distance between is a good thing - but I don't know that we can judge based on what we hear about.
Look, if you think a situation feels like trouble then listen to yourself. To some extent things in relationships are true because we think them, regardless of truth. We build our emotional memories based on what we feel at the time even if it's inaccurate. Finding things out later - good and bad - only goes so far in undoing stuff we've decided already.
But if the only problem you're having is this being afraid of being hurt... I just don't think that's a good reason to avoid things in relationships. I personally just try not to make decisions in life that come down to "I'm afraid of being hurt."
Certainly, listen to the voices in your head that say "I believe, based on what I know, that I am almost certain to be hurt." If that's your reaction to this situation, walk away. World's a big place. But make your decision to avoid things you actually believe will happen rather than out of fear you think you should have.
posted by phearlez at 9:34 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I suspect that's because people aren't real gung-ho to advertise how closely together their relationship endings come to their new relationships beginning. Or overlapping. I'm more than happy to follow the same instinct you seem to - that distance between is a good thing - but I don't know that we can judge based on what we hear about.
Look, if you think a situation feels like trouble then listen to yourself. To some extent things in relationships are true because we think them, regardless of truth. We build our emotional memories based on what we feel at the time even if it's inaccurate. Finding things out later - good and bad - only goes so far in undoing stuff we've decided already.
But if the only problem you're having is this being afraid of being hurt... I just don't think that's a good reason to avoid things in relationships. I personally just try not to make decisions in life that come down to "I'm afraid of being hurt."
Certainly, listen to the voices in your head that say "I believe, based on what I know, that I am almost certain to be hurt." If that's your reaction to this situation, walk away. World's a big place. But make your decision to avoid things you actually believe will happen rather than out of fear you think you should have.
posted by phearlez at 9:34 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Trust your instincts on this one.
Are you positive that there is even a divorce in progress and that this guy is not cheating on his wife?
Taking the information he's provided to you at face value.....I would suggest that this guy is no shape to be dating anyone just yet. He should probably be trying to figure out things like "why did my marriage fail" and how single parenting works. Dating should not be high on this guy's list, IMO. I understand that you like him, but be careful about the "trickle truth" of information you're getting from this guy.
Why not go your separate ways from this guy for a while, and check back in after his divorce is actually final?
posted by PsuDab93 at 10:18 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Are you positive that there is even a divorce in progress and that this guy is not cheating on his wife?
Taking the information he's provided to you at face value.....I would suggest that this guy is no shape to be dating anyone just yet. He should probably be trying to figure out things like "why did my marriage fail" and how single parenting works. Dating should not be high on this guy's list, IMO. I understand that you like him, but be careful about the "trickle truth" of information you're getting from this guy.
Why not go your separate ways from this guy for a while, and check back in after his divorce is actually final?
posted by PsuDab93 at 10:18 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm going to have to go against the grain on this one. This guy was married for 16 years so he's obviously able to make a commitment. Would you rather be dating a commitment phobe? The 18 month marriage was clearly a long time ago and he's probably grown up a lot since he made that mistake. You didn't make it clear whether he cheated on his first wife with his second. If not and he was separated from her when he met the second, I don't really see the problem.
Maybe I'm biased because I met my partner after he'd been separated from his wife for only 3 months. I was very wary at first because of this but I'm glad I kept on seeing him. We've now been together for almost 3 years and own a house and car and pets together. And he's only just gotten a date for his divorce because the court system works so slowly here.
My partner is someone who likes being in a relationship but his ex-wife treated him poorly and cheated on him constantly. He still tried to make things work for their children but got to a point when he just couldn't anymore. If she had stopped cheating I'm sure he would have stayed with her so in some ways he could be said to have wanted to stay married. However, now he's delighted his marriage didn't work out because he and I are just so much more compatible than he and his ex were.
I'm guessing this is what your guy meant by sending you the xkcd comic. It was a bit of a gaffe on his part because the comic seems to show someone who is still married who falls for someone else, whereas in his case it seems he's separated. If that's the case, I would suggest you keep seeing him but maybe try to slow things down a bit until you're feeling more comfortable with everything. Make sure you're really into having a relationship with him because it sounds to me like he's in this for the long haul. Make sure you choose him instead of just sliding into something serious. But as long as you think he's the one for you, and as long as he is taking active steps to get his divorce sorted out, I wouldn't freak out too much at this point.
posted by hazyjane at 11:34 AM on January 5, 2012
Maybe I'm biased because I met my partner after he'd been separated from his wife for only 3 months. I was very wary at first because of this but I'm glad I kept on seeing him. We've now been together for almost 3 years and own a house and car and pets together. And he's only just gotten a date for his divorce because the court system works so slowly here.
My partner is someone who likes being in a relationship but his ex-wife treated him poorly and cheated on him constantly. He still tried to make things work for their children but got to a point when he just couldn't anymore. If she had stopped cheating I'm sure he would have stayed with her so in some ways he could be said to have wanted to stay married. However, now he's delighted his marriage didn't work out because he and I are just so much more compatible than he and his ex were.
I'm guessing this is what your guy meant by sending you the xkcd comic. It was a bit of a gaffe on his part because the comic seems to show someone who is still married who falls for someone else, whereas in his case it seems he's separated. If that's the case, I would suggest you keep seeing him but maybe try to slow things down a bit until you're feeling more comfortable with everything. Make sure you're really into having a relationship with him because it sounds to me like he's in this for the long haul. Make sure you choose him instead of just sliding into something serious. But as long as you think he's the one for you, and as long as he is taking active steps to get his divorce sorted out, I wouldn't freak out too much at this point.
posted by hazyjane at 11:34 AM on January 5, 2012
The reasonable thing to do is write this guy off.
Yes it is. You don't need to make this any more complicated than that.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:39 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes it is. You don't need to make this any more complicated than that.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:39 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Here's a comparison for you. I met my current boyfriend when he was separated from his wife; he had put "divorced" on his online profile but told me the first time we talked on the phone that he was actually still married. I wasn't thrilled about that, but it was crystal clear to me right from the beginning that his marriage was completely over and there was zero chance that he would get back together with his wife. That's why I kept seeing him: he was always upfront with me, his actions were consistent with his words, and in general he was an honest, trustworthy person. He was still hurting over the breakup of his marriage, of course, but he wanted the divorce and worked steadily towards it while we were together. Now, 3+ years later, we're still together and doing great.
Contrast this with the guy you're seeing. He's not honest and upfront with you, he's not ready to get divorced, and he seems to have a pattern of not being able to be single. Plus, if you date him now, you're either going to have to keep the relationship a secret (fun!), or you are going to be dragged into his divorce and child custody drama. Believe me, the fact that he's seeing someone else and going on trips with her is going to be drama fodder like crazy.
If I were you, I would tell him to call you when he has this situation--and his head--all sorted out. He needs to focus on his divorce and his kids right now, and you need a man that will focus on you.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 11:40 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Contrast this with the guy you're seeing. He's not honest and upfront with you, he's not ready to get divorced, and he seems to have a pattern of not being able to be single. Plus, if you date him now, you're either going to have to keep the relationship a secret (fun!), or you are going to be dragged into his divorce and child custody drama. Believe me, the fact that he's seeing someone else and going on trips with her is going to be drama fodder like crazy.
If I were you, I would tell him to call you when he has this situation--and his head--all sorted out. He needs to focus on his divorce and his kids right now, and you need a man that will focus on you.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 11:40 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
But I'm afraid if I do this, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and he'll move on to someone who doesn't hold back as much (and holding back too much has been a problem for me in previous relationships).
Hello, I have been in your shoes! (I've also seen this a bunch of times in relationship askmes.) I had this idea of myself as someone who wasn't trusting enough, who had issues with intimacy, and decided I would work on that in future relationships. Which is great, but the thing is, thinking about it this way can really undermine your own trust in your judgment.
Because here's the thing: it's normal and ok to hold back a bit at the beginning of a relationship. You've been seeing each other for two weeks. And yes, things are exciting and sparkly and new, but still, two weeks is barely a blink of an eye. You're still getting to know each other.
People who are emotionally healthy and respectful of their partners don't expect immediate intimacy and shedding of all boundaries. Because they understand that trust is earned and intimacy is built over time and shared experiences.
On the other hand, in my experience: people who aren't respectful of boundaries or expect immediate intimacy are not usually looking for a real partner: they're looking for someone to fill a role in their life, to give them that new relationship high. If he honestly is backing off because you're "holding back," that's really not respectful to you and a pretty clear sign that he is not ready for a relationship.
I understand and mostly agree with the people who say to extract yourself from this potential mess. But if you think it's worth it to stick around, it would be a good idea to sit him down, let him know your concerns, and see how he responds.
posted by the essence of class and fanciness at 12:16 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hello, I have been in your shoes! (I've also seen this a bunch of times in relationship askmes.) I had this idea of myself as someone who wasn't trusting enough, who had issues with intimacy, and decided I would work on that in future relationships. Which is great, but the thing is, thinking about it this way can really undermine your own trust in your judgment.
Because here's the thing: it's normal and ok to hold back a bit at the beginning of a relationship. You've been seeing each other for two weeks. And yes, things are exciting and sparkly and new, but still, two weeks is barely a blink of an eye. You're still getting to know each other.
People who are emotionally healthy and respectful of their partners don't expect immediate intimacy and shedding of all boundaries. Because they understand that trust is earned and intimacy is built over time and shared experiences.
On the other hand, in my experience: people who aren't respectful of boundaries or expect immediate intimacy are not usually looking for a real partner: they're looking for someone to fill a role in their life, to give them that new relationship high. If he honestly is backing off because you're "holding back," that's really not respectful to you and a pretty clear sign that he is not ready for a relationship.
I understand and mostly agree with the people who say to extract yourself from this potential mess. But if you think it's worth it to stick around, it would be a good idea to sit him down, let him know your concerns, and see how he responds.
posted by the essence of class and fanciness at 12:16 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
you're worried that he's going to find someone who "doesn't hold back as much"? are you kidding? then that lady will deserve the crazy-pants.
There is actually a reason why people take things slow. In fact- there are tons of reasons. Forget his problems- I'm more concerned about why you would want to jump into a ginormous time-sucking, mentaly draining relationship like this after two damn weeks! It's all fun to be caught up in a limerance- but tame it down, dearie. You need to protect yourself. Four times the first week is TOO MUCH. Seeing a new person for two weeks basically every other day is actually. for real. absolutly. TOO MUCH. How would you even get a chance to decompress and figure out how you feel about him with out his bigfat AWGODHESSOGREAT getting in the way?
posted by Blisterlips at 1:12 PM on January 5, 2012
There is actually a reason why people take things slow. In fact- there are tons of reasons. Forget his problems- I'm more concerned about why you would want to jump into a ginormous time-sucking, mentaly draining relationship like this after two damn weeks! It's all fun to be caught up in a limerance- but tame it down, dearie. You need to protect yourself. Four times the first week is TOO MUCH. Seeing a new person for two weeks basically every other day is actually. for real. absolutly. TOO MUCH. How would you even get a chance to decompress and figure out how you feel about him with out his bigfat AWGODHESSOGREAT getting in the way?
posted by Blisterlips at 1:12 PM on January 5, 2012
It seems to me that you are rushing a bit too much to decide if he's The One. What's the hurry? You can continue to date/hang out for a while without having to make a Serious Commitment and see how the marriage/custody thing pans out. If nothing else, it's pretty much a unique opportunity to see how he handles a stressful relationship situation.
That cartoon could be taken a couple of ways and, while most here seem to be seeing it as 'I'm happy to settle for you for now', it could also be that you are the one that he is hearing choirs of angels about and his wife is the one that he settled for. That's the way I took it at first read, anyway. Ask him about it - maybe it's his way of showing how he feels about you, but he's shy about coming right out and saying it.
posted by dg at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
That cartoon could be taken a couple of ways and, while most here seem to be seeing it as 'I'm happy to settle for you for now', it could also be that you are the one that he is hearing choirs of angels about and his wife is the one that he settled for. That's the way I took it at first read, anyway. Ask him about it - maybe it's his way of showing how he feels about you, but he's shy about coming right out and saying it.
posted by dg at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
This guy was married for 16 years so he's obviously able to make a commitment.
No, he was able to stand in front of someone and say vows. Whether he kept those vows for 16 years, or was cheating on his wife all over the place (his first marriage ended with him seeing 2nd wife on the side, right?), we really don't know. We only have what he has told the OP to go by.
OP, he says he didn't want the divorce. So why did his wife want it? What happened? Usually, when a marriage of 16 years breaks up, there's a good reason. People do drift apart and think about ending relationships, but even then the *impetus* for actually going through the motions of a divorce is when they actually meet another prospective partner or they just can't take the other person's behavior any more.
Maybe your guy had a habit of cheating that his wife just couldn't ignore any more. Or maybe she's the one who's fallen for someone else. The fact that he's admitted, only two weeks in, that he's been married twice, is still married, doesn't want to be divorced, is in the middle of a custody battle with his wife, and cheated on at least one other occasion makes me suspicious that other, more serious confessions will be forthcoming.
What do you want from this? Are you hoping for a longterm relationship? He has two ex-wives and his kids in line for his attention already ahead of you. Is the fact that he's been married something you see as a positive, like you know he isn't afraid to go to that level? Because he hasn't actually been that successful at marriage. He is really moving fast with you. It certainly seems like a pattern with him. Maybe someone who took the concept of marriage and making vows more seriously in the first place would not have ended up where he is now...for the second time.
If you don't want to actually break up with him, don't. But you don't have to be exclusive after just two weeks, see this guy every other day and take a weekend trip with him, either. If you haven't had sex yet, either, take your time before deciding to take the plunge. If he is really serious about you, there's no harm in going slow. It takes TIME to get to know someone, and it will be much better for his custody issues if the two of you wait, anyway.
Yes, there are HUGE red flags here. Slow down and proceed with caution.
posted by misha at 2:29 PM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
No, he was able to stand in front of someone and say vows. Whether he kept those vows for 16 years, or was cheating on his wife all over the place (his first marriage ended with him seeing 2nd wife on the side, right?), we really don't know. We only have what he has told the OP to go by.
OP, he says he didn't want the divorce. So why did his wife want it? What happened? Usually, when a marriage of 16 years breaks up, there's a good reason. People do drift apart and think about ending relationships, but even then the *impetus* for actually going through the motions of a divorce is when they actually meet another prospective partner or they just can't take the other person's behavior any more.
Maybe your guy had a habit of cheating that his wife just couldn't ignore any more. Or maybe she's the one who's fallen for someone else. The fact that he's admitted, only two weeks in, that he's been married twice, is still married, doesn't want to be divorced, is in the middle of a custody battle with his wife, and cheated on at least one other occasion makes me suspicious that other, more serious confessions will be forthcoming.
What do you want from this? Are you hoping for a longterm relationship? He has two ex-wives and his kids in line for his attention already ahead of you. Is the fact that he's been married something you see as a positive, like you know he isn't afraid to go to that level? Because he hasn't actually been that successful at marriage. He is really moving fast with you. It certainly seems like a pattern with him. Maybe someone who took the concept of marriage and making vows more seriously in the first place would not have ended up where he is now...for the second time.
If you don't want to actually break up with him, don't. But you don't have to be exclusive after just two weeks, see this guy every other day and take a weekend trip with him, either. If you haven't had sex yet, either, take your time before deciding to take the plunge. If he is really serious about you, there's no harm in going slow. It takes TIME to get to know someone, and it will be much better for his custody issues if the two of you wait, anyway.
Yes, there are HUGE red flags here. Slow down and proceed with caution.
posted by misha at 2:29 PM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
You asked for happy endings. My story bears some similarity to yours, so here it is.
My partner and I are ridiculous stupid happy. Pursuing a relationship with her is hands down the best decision I've ever made. But when we met, I was married. True, it was an abusive marriage, things were on the rocks, I really *wanted* to break up with my ex, but for reasons not really relevant to this story, I could not do it. Red flag after red flag presented itself to my sweetheart.
And yet, she stuck with me. I asked her what I did to help her make that decision.
"You were forthright with me, always explained what was going on, what
you were feeling, why (we couldn't publicly talk about our relationship), etc etc. Talked to me about the context for your relationship with your ex, reassured me that you did not want to be in that relationship any more. Did not hide things or dribble out information on an as-needed basis."
"When it came down to it, I knew it was a risk and that it could end badly, but it's the first time I've ever felt deep-down certain about a relationship, and I did not want to throw away the chance."
For my part, I tried my hardest to be honest, respectful, and kind to her. I knew I was in a bad situation, but I didn't want to make my bad situation hers to deal with. Our relationship could have been a seriously ugly drama bomb, but it wasn't. I tried to be emotionally supportive and understanding of her, to put myself in her shoes. We were honest with each other throughout, even when things were at their most stressful at the end of my marriage and in my subsequent divorce.
So, having been in his position, I guess I would ask you if you feel he's giving you the same respect. Proceed with caution and go with your gut.
posted by Lieber Frau at 3:40 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
My partner and I are ridiculous stupid happy. Pursuing a relationship with her is hands down the best decision I've ever made. But when we met, I was married. True, it was an abusive marriage, things were on the rocks, I really *wanted* to break up with my ex, but for reasons not really relevant to this story, I could not do it. Red flag after red flag presented itself to my sweetheart.
And yet, she stuck with me. I asked her what I did to help her make that decision.
"You were forthright with me, always explained what was going on, what
you were feeling, why (we couldn't publicly talk about our relationship), etc etc. Talked to me about the context for your relationship with your ex, reassured me that you did not want to be in that relationship any more. Did not hide things or dribble out information on an as-needed basis."
"When it came down to it, I knew it was a risk and that it could end badly, but it's the first time I've ever felt deep-down certain about a relationship, and I did not want to throw away the chance."
For my part, I tried my hardest to be honest, respectful, and kind to her. I knew I was in a bad situation, but I didn't want to make my bad situation hers to deal with. Our relationship could have been a seriously ugly drama bomb, but it wasn't. I tried to be emotionally supportive and understanding of her, to put myself in her shoes. We were honest with each other throughout, even when things were at their most stressful at the end of my marriage and in my subsequent divorce.
So, having been in his position, I guess I would ask you if you feel he's giving you the same respect. Proceed with caution and go with your gut.
posted by Lieber Frau at 3:40 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Is a happy ending possible? Sure, but why are you looking so far ahead with someone you've only been dating for a couple of weeks? Even if he was not married, did not have children, was not going through a divorce/custody battle (and actually, can't the divorce be settled without the custody issue being resolved?0), he wasn't nickle and dime-ing you on the details of those things... you'd still be forecasting this way too early. Are you rushing to avoid the possible Four Week Fizzle Factor? Is he rushing so that he doesn't have to feel more of the sting of the dissolution of his marriage?
Some people are more relationship-oriented, some people like to go at a faster pace than others, some people just know, some people never know, etc etc the mileages vary. Eight dates isn't always enough for people to know that they still want to DATE another person, much less jump into a committed relationship, and I'd be curious to know if you're even on the same page about this -- your end goal is a "real" [read: serious, long-term, committed] relationship but what's his? And how can you know this can happen with each other after two weeks?
I think you'd probably avoid some hurt if you talked to him and found out if your hopes and expectations match with his AND reality.
posted by sm1tten at 4:36 PM on January 5, 2012
Some people are more relationship-oriented, some people like to go at a faster pace than others, some people just know, some people never know, etc etc the mileages vary. Eight dates isn't always enough for people to know that they still want to DATE another person, much less jump into a committed relationship, and I'd be curious to know if you're even on the same page about this -- your end goal is a "real" [read: serious, long-term, committed] relationship but what's his? And how can you know this can happen with each other after two weeks?
I think you'd probably avoid some hurt if you talked to him and found out if your hopes and expectations match with his AND reality.
posted by sm1tten at 4:36 PM on January 5, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Why would you want to be in a relationship with a guy who wants to be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship? That type of person does not make a good partner. That behavior speaks to someone who suffers from deep insecurity and internal issues.
The whole situation sounds like a giant mess. He's not even divorced yet and you have no idea when it will happen? I suggest telling him you want to back off and take it a lot slower, if not ejecting entirely.
posted by Anonymous at 7:55 AM on January 5, 2012