Dating advice for my best friend
December 30, 2011 6:03 PM Subscribe
What advice can I give to my best friend about her relationship with a man who is separated.
My best friend has been in a relationship with a man for the past year who is separated and now in the process of getting a divorce. They are both very much in love and committed to each other. He is a wonderful man with integrity and adoration for my friend. He is loved by her family and friends and has all the qualities she's ever expressed wanting in a man. He expressed his intention to get a divorce even before they started dating. The divorce is in process now, but not as fast and as smooth as she would have liked it to go. What advice can I give her knowing she is very much in love with the man, but also very frustrated with having to wait.
My best friend has been in a relationship with a man for the past year who is separated and now in the process of getting a divorce. They are both very much in love and committed to each other. He is a wonderful man with integrity and adoration for my friend. He is loved by her family and friends and has all the qualities she's ever expressed wanting in a man. He expressed his intention to get a divorce even before they started dating. The divorce is in process now, but not as fast and as smooth as she would have liked it to go. What advice can I give her knowing she is very much in love with the man, but also very frustrated with having to wait.
Best answer: To my way of thinking she has three options.
1) Dump him and find someone single.
2) Cause a big stink, throw a tanty, and demand that it go as fast and smoothly as she wants it to go.
3) Wait, patiently.
I vote for option 3. In the long term scheme of things it is the only option with a good outcome.
posted by Kerasia at 6:33 PM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
1) Dump him and find someone single.
2) Cause a big stink, throw a tanty, and demand that it go as fast and smoothly as she wants it to go.
3) Wait, patiently.
I vote for option 3. In the long term scheme of things it is the only option with a good outcome.
posted by Kerasia at 6:33 PM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's hard to know without knowing exactly what her frustrations are. Is she doubting his commitment to her? Has he kept telling her "soon" but with no movement? Does she want to get married but he is skittish because of his experience with the divorce? From what you write here and not knowing these people at all, that doesn't sound like the case (excepting possibly the latter), but the details are limited. More information would be helpful.
That being said, if the divorce is "not as fast and smooth as she would have liked it to go," have her imagine what her partner must be feeling. It is his divorce and he (along with the soon-to-be-ex-spouse) are the ones dealing most directly with an incredibly trying and emotionally draining situation. This isn't saying it isn't tough on her, but it has to be even more so for him. I very much doubt there is such a thing as an "easy" divorce, even if the process runs smoothly and quickly and in this case it apparently isn't. Divorce can be incredibly messy both from a legal and an emotional standpoint. She should communicate openly and honestly with him, but don't pile on the emotional turmoil with pure venting. I'm not saying she should bottle everything up and put on a happy face for him all the time, just that she should think about what are genuine issues and problems vs. just letting off steam. She can and should communicate her issues to him, but should probably save venting, particularly if it is frequent, for you or other close people in her life.
Finally, if all is as you say, give her your perspective: he seems to genuinely love her and is doing all he can to make things work between them, even if it isn't an easy road. They'll have survived genuine struggles together and their relationship will probably be the stronger for it. Being patient through a divorce is difficult, but that eventually it will be over and she will have a partner who loves her for better or for worse.
posted by HonoriaGlossop at 6:43 PM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
That being said, if the divorce is "not as fast and smooth as she would have liked it to go," have her imagine what her partner must be feeling. It is his divorce and he (along with the soon-to-be-ex-spouse) are the ones dealing most directly with an incredibly trying and emotionally draining situation. This isn't saying it isn't tough on her, but it has to be even more so for him. I very much doubt there is such a thing as an "easy" divorce, even if the process runs smoothly and quickly and in this case it apparently isn't. Divorce can be incredibly messy both from a legal and an emotional standpoint. She should communicate openly and honestly with him, but don't pile on the emotional turmoil with pure venting. I'm not saying she should bottle everything up and put on a happy face for him all the time, just that she should think about what are genuine issues and problems vs. just letting off steam. She can and should communicate her issues to him, but should probably save venting, particularly if it is frequent, for you or other close people in her life.
Finally, if all is as you say, give her your perspective: he seems to genuinely love her and is doing all he can to make things work between them, even if it isn't an easy road. They'll have survived genuine struggles together and their relationship will probably be the stronger for it. Being patient through a divorce is difficult, but that eventually it will be over and she will have a partner who loves her for better or for worse.
posted by HonoriaGlossop at 6:43 PM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: When I started a relationship with my current fella, he was in the process of extricating himself from a complicated co-parenting situation with his son's mom. He was really up front with me about this when we met, before anything happened, and we've been able to work things out mostly pretty well. I was pretty guarded and cautious when things first started out. Here are some of the things that he or we did that made a big difference.
1. His words and actions should match. If they don't match, that should be something open for civil discussion. So obviously he may have more optimistic views on things like deadlines and how long things will take, but he's in control of his own parts of the process and if he's on board with the whole "process of getting a divorce" thing, he should be making that clear both verbally and with the things he does. If his actions don't match his words, he should explain that or do better.
2. What he tells her should match what she would otherwise learn about this process from other people like his friends and other family. The big deal with me was "If I ask these people if it's true that you two haven't had a physical relationship in over a decade, will they agree?" The things he said passed the "independently verifiable" test pretty easily, it was pretty obvious there was nothing squirelly going on.
3. Prioritization. Sure there is a lot of paperwork and sometimes bad feelings and wrangling in a divorce, but he should be able to, or be working towards, compartmentalizing those things so that your friend doesn't have to, for example, help him grieve for his failed marriage. Not that he shouldn't have people to do that with, but he needs to be able to have other people in his life besides her to work on some of the complicated emotions that a divorce can bring up, even if it's the right thing to do and everyone agrees. It's hard in any case, and he needs to own that and manage it like everything else. And have alone-time for him and your friend that aren't interrupted by text and emails and drama from his ex. He should be able to do this for her.
4. Even though a divorce is a tough thing for two people to go through, it signifies the END of a relationship. So there should not be extended drama, "we have to go to counseling" or other machinations if he is not an active part in these things. It's easy to blame the ex-partner for a bunch of back and forth shit that you yourself are stuck in because you're just used to bad patterns, but the big deal is that continuing drama with an ex is in some ways just continuing the relationship and that should be winding down, visibly.
5. Talk about how things are going, frequently and what can be done to accelerate the process. I'm unclear if your friend just thinks divorces should be fast, or if there's something about this process that is not moving for unknown or sketchy reasons. I set up a few firm guidelines once my SO's decision has been made [okay, you should have separate bills by this time. By xmas we should have a plan for THIS part of it, she needs to be off of your health insurance by this date] and we worked towards those. In many cases it was easier for him to sort of not hassle with these things because he didn't want to fight with his ex, but I maintained that if he was serious about separating their lives, they were necessary steps and putting them off was just making me feel like he valued his own comfort more than our own partnership.
This is all very difficult and it's likely that your friend's boyfriend is a little adrift in dealing with it, so while compassion is the order of the day, it's also important to be firm and make sure she is getting a real boyfriend out of the deal and not someone who is making noises about being committed and into her but in reality sort of stuck in this messy thing with someone else. I'm not sure entirely what you mean by "waiting" in this situation, perhaps you could clarify a little? Waiting until he's no longer married? Waiting until he's free to get remarried? Waiting until he's not swapping angry emails with his ex? waiting until he's moved? I think stuff like separate finances and domiciles are things that should be happening pretty darned quick, other things can take longer to untangle and not everyone is good at just getting in there and doing what needs to be done.
posted by jessamyn at 6:45 PM on December 30, 2011 [8 favorites]
1. His words and actions should match. If they don't match, that should be something open for civil discussion. So obviously he may have more optimistic views on things like deadlines and how long things will take, but he's in control of his own parts of the process and if he's on board with the whole "process of getting a divorce" thing, he should be making that clear both verbally and with the things he does. If his actions don't match his words, he should explain that or do better.
2. What he tells her should match what she would otherwise learn about this process from other people like his friends and other family. The big deal with me was "If I ask these people if it's true that you two haven't had a physical relationship in over a decade, will they agree?" The things he said passed the "independently verifiable" test pretty easily, it was pretty obvious there was nothing squirelly going on.
3. Prioritization. Sure there is a lot of paperwork and sometimes bad feelings and wrangling in a divorce, but he should be able to, or be working towards, compartmentalizing those things so that your friend doesn't have to, for example, help him grieve for his failed marriage. Not that he shouldn't have people to do that with, but he needs to be able to have other people in his life besides her to work on some of the complicated emotions that a divorce can bring up, even if it's the right thing to do and everyone agrees. It's hard in any case, and he needs to own that and manage it like everything else. And have alone-time for him and your friend that aren't interrupted by text and emails and drama from his ex. He should be able to do this for her.
4. Even though a divorce is a tough thing for two people to go through, it signifies the END of a relationship. So there should not be extended drama, "we have to go to counseling" or other machinations if he is not an active part in these things. It's easy to blame the ex-partner for a bunch of back and forth shit that you yourself are stuck in because you're just used to bad patterns, but the big deal is that continuing drama with an ex is in some ways just continuing the relationship and that should be winding down, visibly.
5. Talk about how things are going, frequently and what can be done to accelerate the process. I'm unclear if your friend just thinks divorces should be fast, or if there's something about this process that is not moving for unknown or sketchy reasons. I set up a few firm guidelines once my SO's decision has been made [okay, you should have separate bills by this time. By xmas we should have a plan for THIS part of it, she needs to be off of your health insurance by this date] and we worked towards those. In many cases it was easier for him to sort of not hassle with these things because he didn't want to fight with his ex, but I maintained that if he was serious about separating their lives, they were necessary steps and putting them off was just making me feel like he valued his own comfort more than our own partnership.
This is all very difficult and it's likely that your friend's boyfriend is a little adrift in dealing with it, so while compassion is the order of the day, it's also important to be firm and make sure she is getting a real boyfriend out of the deal and not someone who is making noises about being committed and into her but in reality sort of stuck in this messy thing with someone else. I'm not sure entirely what you mean by "waiting" in this situation, perhaps you could clarify a little? Waiting until he's no longer married? Waiting until he's free to get remarried? Waiting until he's not swapping angry emails with his ex? waiting until he's moved? I think stuff like separate finances and domiciles are things that should be happening pretty darned quick, other things can take longer to untangle and not everyone is good at just getting in there and doing what needs to be done.
posted by jessamyn at 6:45 PM on December 30, 2011 [8 favorites]
I agree with Kerasia that those are the only options, and (2) is a shitty option. But I wouldn't discount (1) because I'm generally against dating people who aren't single for the reasons expressed in this question.
Divorce is rarely as fast and smooth as people would like -- even when the marriage is over and one or both people are ready to move on. That's just how it is.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:55 PM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Divorce is rarely as fast and smooth as people would like -- even when the marriage is over and one or both people are ready to move on. That's just how it is.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:55 PM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
If there are children involved then she needs to break up with him until all is said and done. She may be the one thing keeping those children from having either a loving, 2 parent household or 2 parents who get along but live separately.
It isn't over until it's over. She is technically the other woman. If it is meant to be then they will get back together after he is divorced.
posted by myselfasme at 7:09 PM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
It isn't over until it's over. She is technically the other woman. If it is meant to be then they will get back together after he is divorced.
posted by myselfasme at 7:09 PM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Did she ask for your advice? If not, the answer is "none".
posted by brownrd at 7:22 PM on December 30, 2011
posted by brownrd at 7:22 PM on December 30, 2011
Response by poster: Can I mark more than one best answer? Thanks for this. And, for those that asked, yes she asked for advice. The "waiting" is waiting for the divorce to go through to really solidify commitment for her.
posted by i_wear_boots at 7:52 PM on December 30, 2011
posted by i_wear_boots at 7:52 PM on December 30, 2011
My divorce was as smooth and speedy as they can be in the commonwealth of Virginia, and it took 15 months. That was pretty much optimal--anything faster would've required fighting. I could see complications adding a few months to that. There is space for patience.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:11 PM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:11 PM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, but she knowingly started a relationship with a married guy? Then she's got no call to push for his divorce being rushed to finality, and in fact she'll be better off if it takes some time. Sure, he may very well have *said* he was already planning to get divorced before he met your friend, but anybody who's cheating on their spouse is already a liar.
(Example: my sister --- married over thirty years! --- just last week discovered her husband has been having an affair for almost a year, and it turns out the 'other woman' talks on her facebook page about how he proposed to her SIX MONTHS AGO. This whole mess totally hit my sister out of the blue, and anything he told that woman about a "working on a divorce"? Complete fabrication.)
posted by easily confused at 3:27 AM on December 31, 2011 [3 favorites]
(Example: my sister --- married over thirty years! --- just last week discovered her husband has been having an affair for almost a year, and it turns out the 'other woman' talks on her facebook page about how he proposed to her SIX MONTHS AGO. This whole mess totally hit my sister out of the blue, and anything he told that woman about a "working on a divorce"? Complete fabrication.)
posted by easily confused at 3:27 AM on December 31, 2011 [3 favorites]
Easily confused, I understand how traumatic it must be for your sister, but the OP's guy is not her guy (as far as we know) and the OP has not given us any reason to suspect he is being less than upfront with her friend about all this. For all we know, his soon-to-be-ex cheated on him, and he is a man of sterling qualities who is guilty of, at most, poor timing (in meeting the OP's friend after his wife, instead of before).
Jessamyn's answer is spot on, though.
posted by misha at 8:04 AM on December 31, 2011
Jessamyn's answer is spot on, though.
posted by misha at 8:04 AM on December 31, 2011
You're absolutely right, misha: this guy might actually be totally honest and the aggrieved party in his soon-to-end marriage. Unfortunately, I've seen more cheaters (both male and female) use that "I'm in the middle of a divorce" line as a way to cheat, than I've seen honest people who actually are in the legal process of divorce.
I guess that basically what I'm saying is, if this guy's truely that special, he's worth waiting for, and it's out of line for any new girlfriend/boyfriend to jump into someone else's divorce.
posted by easily confused at 9:10 AM on December 31, 2011
I guess that basically what I'm saying is, if this guy's truely that special, he's worth waiting for, and it's out of line for any new girlfriend/boyfriend to jump into someone else's divorce.
posted by easily confused at 9:10 AM on December 31, 2011
The divorce is in process now, but not as fast and as smooth as she would have liked it to go.
You should make sure your friend has the correct expectations.
The average length of divorce proceedings in the U.S. appears to be one year. I am now feeling like an over-achiever in that I managed to get a non-contested no-children fully mediated divorce in only 7 months.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:48 AM on December 31, 2011
You should make sure your friend has the correct expectations.
The average length of divorce proceedings in the U.S. appears to be one year. I am now feeling like an over-achiever in that I managed to get a non-contested no-children fully mediated divorce in only 7 months.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:48 AM on December 31, 2011
If the state has legal separation, and he is legally separated, that's a good sign. Either way, if he's living in his own place, especially if he bought a place, that's a good thing.
Filing papers is really the only thing the divorcing couple can control - although if they are both truly ready to end the marriage things should go smoothly.
I have always avoided men in entanglements because they are usually conflicted/feely guilty/doubting the wisdom of their past self. Your friend might want to think about how sure of anything this guy is right now.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:29 PM on December 31, 2011
Filing papers is really the only thing the divorcing couple can control - although if they are both truly ready to end the marriage things should go smoothly.
I have always avoided men in entanglements because they are usually conflicted/feely guilty/doubting the wisdom of their past self. Your friend might want to think about how sure of anything this guy is right now.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:29 PM on December 31, 2011
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posted by caek at 6:32 PM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]