Can I say I'm vegetarian for practical reasons, or does it piss vegetarians off?

December 26, 2011 2:20 PM

Ethics and semantics filter - can/should I say I'm a vegetarian to communicate my dietary preferences and needs when, strictly, I'm not?

I have been off red meat for a year and trying to limit poultry, egg, and cheese. This is for dietary reasons. I have tried to keep communication about this low key - "I can have poultry if it comes to that" for example.

The frustrating thing is that people tend to interpret this so loosely. I prefer to eat vegetarian, but do not have ethical reasons to do so.

So when a group Chinese take out (US) meal is ordered, General Tso's chicken, which I can't eat. This Xmas, breakfast of steak, sausage, bacon, eggs, toast, butter, jam - I had dry toast and eggs, and was hungry.

I feel it would be easier to get what I need nutritionally by saying I'm a vegetarian, but does that piss off people who are truly vegetarian? I eat fish. But then, scallops wrapped in bacon, you can just take the bacon off. No, really, I can't. So I feel persecuted when perhaps, I should just make a stronger statement about what I eat.

However, if there is a business lunch situation where the vegetarian option is pasta in cheese sauce, I'll take the chicken as a better nutritional option for me.

I know many vegetarians have moral reasons for their diets, and I respect that enough to not claim it for convenience, if it might piss people off.

What do you think?

posted by rainbaby to Food & Drink (61 answers total)

"I don't eat red meat. I'll eat poultry or fish if it comes to it, but I'd prefer a high-protein vegetarian option."
posted by KathrynT at 2:27 PM on December 26, 2011 [7 favorites]

Hi! Life-long vegetarian here. It's tough to communicate your dietary and health needs to people who don't understand or appreciate your convictions (moral/ethical/health-oriented or otherwise) for ascribing to a particular lifestyle. My recommendation is to always (cheerfully) provide your own food, and/or gently bring up your needs to your host or hostess with equal cheer: "So! I am majorly excited about dinner/breakfast/whatever and I wanted to know if I could help out in any way. I don't eat XYZ and I don't want my diet to be a nuisance to you. What dish could I make that would complement the rest of your meal? I'm happy to pop out to the grocery store to pick up something for myself." And honestly, if anyone actually gives you grief about your diet, shame on them.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:27 PM on December 26, 2011 [8 favorites]

I think you're overthinking this. No sane vegetarian would care about how you describe your dietary preferences. Just choose a way that gets you what you want at dinner.

I don't eat meat at all. I say "I don't eat meat". People don't take me to a steakhouse, and if for some reason I were to find myself in the mood for chicken and in a restaurant that does it, then I guess I could explain that. Sometimes people say "I thought you were a vegetarian" when they see me eating fish. I say "no, I don't eat meat".
posted by caek at 2:31 PM on December 26, 2011 [3 favorites]

I tend to use "I eat a vegetarian diet" or "I eat a mostly vegetarian diet" or "I prefer a vegetarian diet" or similar phrasing, so I'm describing my diet rather than claiming an identity or label. Speaking for myself, you are welcome to describe your diet to people in any terms you want, and I promise I won't be pissed off.
posted by gingerbeer at 2:32 PM on December 26, 2011 [13 favorites]

I don't much care what you call yourself, but I don't think you can wrap yourself in a mantle of persecution if you don't speak up. If you don't want to eat General Tso's chicken, put in an order of whatever it is you do want to eat. And Christmas breakfast? Rather than go hungry and be crabby until lunch, couldn't you have rustled up something you could eat? (Although if you eat eggs, why not eat those eggs and lay off later in the week or whatever?)

Your nutrition is up to you, not everyone around you.
posted by Ideefixe at 2:32 PM on December 26, 2011 [7 favorites]

Sorry, I saw you did eat the eggs--if you were still hungry, could you have had more?
posted by Ideefixe at 2:33 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

"Vegetarian" is a dietary descriptor. It may mean other things, too, but it is that at the very least.

People who are vegetarian in different ways, for different reasons, or at different levels of conviction don't get to tell you that you can't use the term to describe your dietary preferences.

Anyone who gets upset at your description of what you eat can go fuck themselves, and you should feel free to tell them so.
posted by toomuchpete at 2:34 PM on December 26, 2011

Just say vegetarian. I know vegetarians who never eat any meat/poultry/fish, and I know vegetarians (for moral reasons) who will eat chicken/fish if it's much more convenient. If someone serves you a vegetarian dish, it will meet your requirements. If it totally sucks and you go for the chicken anyway, and someone warns you off/calls you out, then feel free to explain that you eat a vegetarian diet for your health but you are not militant/fundamentalist about it and you can recognise when the vegetarian option in a particular situation is not the better choice for you. (If they made the vegie dish especially for you, then it's more awkward and you might just need to suck it up and eat it that time). If they keep hassling you, bore them to death with the details.

So yes, you totally have my permission to say 'hey can we get a vegie option' when the group orders General Tso's.
posted by jacalata at 2:35 PM on December 26, 2011

I'd suggest you say, "I'm mostly pescetarian," for accuracy and the least misunderstandings down the road. People who claim vegetarianism and then are seen eating meat support the stereotype of vegetarians being fickle, flaky or willfully difficult. I've been a strict vegetarian (not vegan) for over twenty years and still am sometimes pressed to explain, to some surprise, that as a vegetarian, I do not actually eat meat or fish.
posted by Morrigan at 2:38 PM on December 26, 2011 [10 favorites]

one more note: if I was the friend ordering General Tso's and knew that you describe yourself as 'oh, I can eat chicken', then saw you refusing to eat it, I would be annoyed at you for having given me information that led to my ruining the meal for you. People don't usually want to screw you over, and don't like looking thoughtless or inconsiderate - it is your responsibility to either give them accurate information so that they can work around you where possible, or to opt out of whatever they are providing in a gracious way.
posted by jacalata at 2:41 PM on December 26, 2011 [22 favorites]

You can describe your diet any way that pleases you. Be aware that inconsistencies will be judged. In other words, don't be one of those "vegetarians" who demands special food one day, when it inconveniences/adds to the burden of the host, and then happily chows a chicken sandwich the next day, when they "feel" like it.
posted by cyndigo at 2:41 PM on December 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

Best answer: The only problem I have with people saying they're vegetarian when they're not is that it gives people the impression that they can slip pork stock into my soup because they have learned that vegetarian means "does not eat large chunks of meat" or "can be persuaded to have chicken if there is nothing else". It's the confusion that's the problem, not the ethics.

I think it's much better for you to say clearly "I am not eating red meat and am trying to limit [THINGS], so usually I would like a vegetarian option." And then if they follow up with "are you vegetarian then?" you would explain again and again, as needed.

In fact, don't introduce the "I can eat chicken sometimes" business, because it gives people the impression that your diet is flexible when in fact it is not.

"I have some dietary restrictions, so I usually get the vegetarian option - could we have THING?" Breakfast at someone's house is tricky because a lot of vegetarian/vegan protein breakfast options are sort of oddball - tofu scramble, beans. Maybe offer to bring something? Or if you're staying with someone for a few days, it seems reasonable to ask if there would be granola/oatmeal/etc available.
posted by Frowner at 2:42 PM on December 26, 2011 [11 favorites]

I'm a vegetarian, and after mentioning something like that there's usually a whole dialogue of clearing up exactly what that means. After saying I'm a vegetarian, I'll get asked if I eat chicken, fish, eggs, cheese, you name it. So go ahead and use the vegetarian label if it makes things easier -- the main thing is just to convey dietary restrictions so everyone's happy, there are no hurt feelings, and you actually get fed.
posted by sparrow89 at 2:42 PM on December 26, 2011

i used to be a vegetarian, still eat meat only occasionally, and have a friend who has a bajillion food allergies...your best bet? shift the blame to a third, nonexistent, person...
"my doctor says i cant have meat or anything too high in fat. what are you having?"
"A,B,and C"
"oh great...i can have A and B!"
posted by sexyrobot at 2:43 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Consider your audience and use whatever terminology would best convey the information they need to understand your dietary restrictions. It's really about communicating what you need, not appealing to some objective societal or dictionary definition of the words in a different context.

I have a similar problem around Christmastime in the UK. The default position is that people here celebrate Christmas. Many people ask what other people are doing for Christmas, as a way of saying "What are your plans for the week surrounding December 25th?" With some people, I respond "I'm Jewish but I will be spending Christmas Day doing Y." I'm not religious (Jewish ethnicity only). With other people I may respond, "Oh, I have no plans yet." or "Not sure, what are you doing?" or "I'm doing Y." Figuring out why people are asking really helps determine which type of response to give. It's not lying or deception, it's accommodating to the underlying question being asked. I'm also gluten-free, which is a pain and nobody understands what that even means...again, figuring why they're asking really helps ensure that I won't be a major inconvenience and they won't feel bad if they get it wrong due to misunderstanding or lack of information. We're all just trying to have a good time enjoying the meal, so it really doesn't matter what the labels are as long as everybody gets what needs to happen to ensure the good times roll on.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:44 PM on December 26, 2011

It really doesn't matter what you call it. I was veggie for close to ten years before going to fish and poultry, and I wouldn't care what you called yourself. But you do have to stick up for yourself in social eating situations. People are going to assume that you are taking care of yourself. If you are with a bunch of people... Order something you can eat? I mean, what happened in that Chinese takeout situation? Did you not say, hey, I can't eat that? What happened in the breakfast situation? Did you ask if there was oatmeal in the house or if you could grab something on the way?

As a person who was veggie for ten years who, thanks to IBS, now has a diet even I have trouble figuring out, you just have learn to be prepared to make/order/ ask for the food that works for you. That's really key.
posted by two lights above the sea at 2:46 PM on December 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

As a long time vegetarian, one-time vegan, etc., I say use whatever words get you around the social complexity of having a minority diet. Look, when I eat in some restaurants, I claim to have an allergy to lard or chicken stock or whatever. I do this because I want to force an honest answer as to the ingredients of the food. And, since lard, in particular, even in small amounts gives me.... er, intense intestinal distress, I use the allergy excuse to make sure they don't just smile and assume what I don't know won't hurt me.

My friends and family know exactly the limits of my dietary preferences. Strangers only need to know what gets me past the immediate event.

I also agree that the best approach with people you care about is to try to make your needs as low-maintenance as possible.

Good luck...
posted by driley at 2:50 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm vegetarian. People who hear you say you're vegetarian will question you. People who then see you eating chicken or fish will be confused, and will question you even more. I don't think it's a good way to avoid explanations and judging, especially if you sometimes pass up available vegetarian choices for meat ones.

I'd go with Frowner's wording of "I have some dietary restrictions, so I usually get the vegetarian option."
posted by vegartanipla at 2:51 PM on December 26, 2011 [4 favorites]

Ditto what Frowner said. When I was a vegetarian I encountered a lot of people who figured that I ate fish, or soups made with chicken stock, etc, because they'd met other "vegetarians" who did the same. So it's not so much pissing anyone off as making problems for the next actual vegetarian these people meet, who will have to defend why they don't eat the things you do.
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:52 PM on December 26, 2011 [4 favorites]

Go ahead and say you're vegetarian, if it's the simpler option; anyone who picks on your dietary choices is out of line.

In my own family we have vegetarians (some of whom eat fish, others who don't), vegans who don't touch any animal products, diabetics on restricted diets, one person currently on a high-protein mainly-red-meat diet, religious restrictions (no kidding: we've got Mormon, Kosher AND Halal rules to work around), food allergies (gluten, nuts, eggs, lactose-intolerant, etc.), as well as a bunch of omnivoures, both picky eaters and non-. Our general rule is that the host will do their best to feed everyone, with potluck additions VERY welcome. And NO ONE is allowed to bitch about anyone else's diet, nor is anyone who didn't give fair warning about their own diet allowed to complain.
posted by easily confused at 2:56 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

When I was a vegetarian I encountered a lot of people who figured that I ate fish, or soups made with chicken stock, etc, because they'd met other "vegetarians" who did the same. So it's not so much pissing anyone off as making problems for the next actual vegetarian these people meet, who will have to defend why they don't eat the things you do.

I came in here to say pretty much exactly this. I'm an almost 20 year vegetarian (five more days!) My biggest trouble is correcting people who have a friend or sibling or whatever and who says "well my [insert contact here] is a vegetarian and he/she eats stuff like that/fish/chicken." To which my constant reply is "vegetarians don't eat x." It's so consistent it's like I know I'll hear three things every time it comes up: that, "oh wow I could NEVER live without chicken," and then the story of the last great meat meal they had.

I now no longer bring it up and basically try to eat before parties or whatever so I don't make a bother of myself or have the same conversation I've had 10,000 times.

TL;DR: no, not a problem what you do but it makes life more of a pain in the ass for the rest of us.
posted by nevercalm at 3:01 PM on December 26, 2011 [5 favorites]

but does that piss off people who are truly vegetarian?

Yes, you can be offputting to some vegetarians by using a title that (possibly) means more to them than a mere diet. It probably comes down to using the word as a title for yourself or for the food you are eating. For example, my vegan friend doesn't like that I call myself "vegan curious" (as he says, that's not the way it works), but he really doesn't seem to have any problem with me ordering a vegan burrito.

If you're worried about offending someone and don't want to have to explain the subtleties of your definition of certain words, then I'd stay away from calling yourself a vegetarian unless you are. If you're cool with having what might be informative conversations with friends and strangers about how they might become sensitive to your health and lifestyle, then call yourself anything you want.
posted by klausman at 3:01 PM on December 26, 2011

Oh, and as for the pissing people off poll, it does irritate me a little. I mean, perhaps it's simpler for you, but it makes it more complicated for me. It won't ruin my day, but I agree that it causes problems down the line for real vegetarians. I also find it disingenuous in the same way that someone who doesn't like X food and so claims to be allergic to it is disingenuous. Just tell it like it is, you know?
posted by vegartanipla at 3:03 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Actually, while I'm thinking about it, I've never understood why the definition of "Vegan" is allowed to be as strict as it is, but many people think nothing of playing fast and loose with the definition of "Vegetarian."

Most people I run into in non-veg circles get the basis of veganism but will then tell me that they know this person who is vegetarian because she gave up red meat. I know it's not as strict as veganism, but it's still pretty friggin strict.
posted by nevercalm at 3:09 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thanks so much, I think the answer is to eat truly pescatarian, and stick with it.
posted by rainbaby at 3:14 PM on December 26, 2011

I'm amazed at the number of people who are cool with playing so fast and loose with the definition of vegetarian. Friends of mine who are actual vegetarians get the blowback from this all the time, as people know other "vegetarians" who eat meat (poultry and fish are meat, just not red meat.)
How hard is it to say "a mostly vegetarian diet, with limited amounts of x, y and z?"

I'm also not clear why General Tso's chicken wasn't okay for the OP after OP said s/he ate some chicken - if I were their friend and trying to be respectful of their dietary preferences, I'd be ticked if we ordered that, and then they said, "I don't want/ "can't have" that." Huh?
posted by canine epigram at 3:15 PM on December 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

I'm in a very similar position. I was a long time vegetarian than happened to be a situation where meat was continously bought and wasted and it had little to do with my prefences. And the vegetarian options had meat products as well. So I started to eat meat. This basically puts me in the "flexitarian" umbrella. I basically don't want meat or meat products that are killed for me. The only condition I'll eat is basically when someone would throw it away if I wouldn't eat it. This leaves me in the precarious situation where I will sometimes eat meat and sometimes won't.

I have found the best thing to say "I would like to have a good vegetarian option. If you have an question on what I would or would not eat contact me."(something along those lines) and then give examples. The idea is to get included in the meal planning. Sometimes I'll get hassled by someone who say "I make a mean chicken blah blah" and I respond "It is likely I will get sick by eating as I haven't eaten meat in a while"(sort of true) or asking them if they can make a tofu/tempeh/fake meat version. Another option is to say something like "Can you tell me what vegetarian things you do well"
The reality is for whatever the reason for your dietary preferences you need to make it explicitly clear up front what you want to eat in group settings. If you are actually waiting till the meal is ordered or made it is to late. People will respect your wishes if you tell them exactly what you want with plenty of heads up. I wouldn't say you were vegetarian, but tell people say you have a particular diet you are following and you would like to control how much meat you take in for your health. It takes a bit of forethought for most people to accommodate vegetarians, vegans, or people dietary allergies.

I've been fortunate to be around friends and co-workers who have listened to why I eat what I eat and have been considerate in their meal planning.
posted by roguewraith at 3:58 PM on December 26, 2011

Just a late note here: I eat a pescitarian diet for a combination of health and ethical reasons. A lot of people don't know what that is, so I have to choose what the best way to communicate is for the circumstances. Normally I will just explain ("basically I'm vegetarian but I'll eat seafood"), but there are some circumstances where saying I'm vegetarian is the way to go. For example, at my grandmother's house, because she never has seafood anyway. It also took 3 times over the course of a day for her to comprehend that no, I will not eat turkey loaf - and again the next day.
At a restaurant, I will usually just ask if their soups are made with chicken stock, because the vast majority are.

When I go to other relatives, I'm usually in the clear because I have other pescitarian family, but I like to mention it. At thanksgiving, I requested non-turkey stuffing and offered to bring my own gravy. The best method is to make your dietary preferences known, stick to it, and do what you need to to accomodate yourself in group settings. Most people are understanding as long as you make your needs clear ahead of time and aren't demanding about it.
posted by DoubleLune at 4:05 PM on December 26, 2011

Oh - and don't over-worry about what will piss other people off. Worry about what you need to do to get your needs met.
posted by DoubleLune at 4:07 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

So when a group Chinese take out (US) meal is ordered, General Tso's chicken, which I can't eat. This Xmas, breakfast of steak, sausage, bacon, eggs, toast, butter, jam - I had dry toast and eggs, and was hungry.

Wait, but you said you were trying to LIMIT poultry, eggs, etc. So you could very well eat the Chinese take out chicken and the Christmas breakfast eggs, you just preferred not to.

If people are conferring on what to eat, make your preferences known whether that means saying you're a vegetarian or just saying, "can we order something with more vegetables/non-dairy/whatever?" Or maybe even suggesting a specific alternative. You can't just expect people to read your mind and provide exactly what you felt like eating that day.

Also, to be honest, one meal isn't going to kill you. If you select the vegetarian option at a business dinner or an overseas flight and then it turns out the chicken option would have been healthier, who cares? Better to just keep it simple for other people - especially in a situation where you need to have chosen in advance.
posted by Sara C. at 4:15 PM on December 26, 2011

Oh, and if you're a guest in someone's home, you eat what's provided. Period. Vegetarian or not. Unless it's a medical problem, you suck it up and behave like a good guest.
posted by Sara C. at 4:16 PM on December 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

I have food allergies and I have found that you don't get to be coy about your dietary needs if you want them met. Still, most people are willing accommodate food issues if they know about them. If I were in your shoes I'd tell people that I cannot eat red meat, I can sometimes eat fish or poultry depending on how it's prepared but that a vegetarian option is the safest, best bet. But being low key about what you can and cannot eat (and for that matter trying to use only one word to describe what you can and cannot eat) is a good way to find yourself stuck with eggs and dry toast.
posted by Meeks Ormand at 4:22 PM on December 26, 2011

Oh, and if you're a guest in someone's home, you eat what's provided. Period. Vegetarian or not. Unless it's a medical problem, you suck it up and behave like a good guest.

Um yeah no not even close. I'd just as soon walk out that be treated like an attitude like that, right after I requested the lightly grilled head of their favorite pet as my entree. Way to troll an otherwise fairly civil discussion of this issue, which can be touchy here.
posted by nevercalm at 4:24 PM on December 26, 2011 [14 favorites]

Oh, and if you're a guest in someone's home, you eat what's provided. Period. Vegetarian or not. Unless it's a medical problem, you suck it up and behave like a good guest.

No. Seriously, you act like a proper guest by offering to bring something you can eat. You do not just eat what you are given. That is pure madness and not how it works. I mean, I'm talking about dinner parties with friends, not dinner at the White House here.
posted by two lights above the sea at 4:36 PM on December 26, 2011 [6 favorites]

I agree with two lights above the sea, bring your own groceries if need be or suck it up. You are not a diabetic. You are not morally opposed to eating animals. Get over yourself. You are making your life too difficult.
posted by myselfasme at 4:40 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh, and if you're a guest in someone's home, you eat what's provided. Period. Vegetarian or not. Unless it's a medical problem, you suck it up and behave like a good guest.

I had taken this to mean "if you're a surprise!vegetarian guest and all that you can eat is the rolls, butter and salad, that's what you eat" not "eat the veal and like it!"

Of course, considered from the host's side, I would much rather know in advance that a guest can't eat gluten, etc etc, so that I can make something enjoyable that everyone can eat. I suspect the "eat what you can and like it" rule (which is Miss Manners' basic) comes from days when more folks went to formal dinner parties at the houses of near strangers. In my social circles, I almost never eat at someone's house unless they're a close enough friend that it's appropriate to talk about what we want to eat; if I'm meeting casual acquaintances, we tend to eat at a restaurant, where of course the issue is generally moot since we don't usually go to steakhouses, etc.

Thus, I think that a big piece of solving this problem is simply clear communication with friends. Your friends don't want you to go hungry - and unless you're present at a hunt breakfast for fifty somewhere in Kent, it's unlikely to be TOO much of a nuisance to rustle up a little peanut butter for your toast, etc etc.
posted by Frowner at 4:43 PM on December 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

To carry right on: let's think about the why of the rules. "Eat what you can and like it" is designed to prevent your host from having to suddenly produce a variety of meals for guests at a nice dinner, since that's no fun for anyone and is a lousy return for hospitality. It's not intended as an ironclad form of theology - Thou Shalt Never Share Thy Dietary Needs But Instead Shall Pick Sadly at the Scallops". If it's just as easy for the host to provide you something you can eat, there's no reason not to ask, especially because there's something PA and martyr-like about refusing to see if your host would let you pop into the kitchen and make a bowl of oatmeal.
posted by Frowner at 4:46 PM on December 26, 2011

"Oh, and if you're a guest in someone's home, you eat what's provided. Period. Vegetarian or not. Unless it's a medical problem, you suck it up and behave like a good guest."

Bullshit. You "suck it up and behave like a good guest" by not making a huge scene about it and calling attention to yourself like a drama queen. Data point: everyone I've ever met who's militant about others "eating what's put in front of them" has an obesity problem. What I choose not to put in my body is none of your concern. Period.

Personally, whenever I'm being pressured to eat meat/cheese/sugar/shitty processed food/additives/alcohol/junk fats and carbs, I sidestep the issue by saying "oh no thanks, x doesn't agree with me" and leave it at that. It's technically true, and nobody has to hear a tiresome, judgey lecture about why.
posted by aquafortis at 4:49 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Yes, Frowner has my meaning.
posted by Sara C. at 4:51 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

No. Seriously, you act like a proper guest by offering to bring something you can eat. You do not just eat what you are given. That is pure madness and not how it works. I mean, I'm talking about dinner parties with friends, not dinner at the White House here.

Exactly. I'm just as likely to ask beforehand then show up with some stuff that's either pre-done or actually cook at someone's house, which often works because vegetarian stuff can generally be cooked quickly while other things are going in the oven, so I'm not in anyone's way. That is generally met with a surprisingly non-sniffy reaction because I'm being zero burden (not making the host worry about yet another thing, basically), providing additional food, doing all the dishes and can actually cook. Even when whatever I made wound up being better or at least better received, it was never anything but welcome. I've even chipped in and done things like cooking everything but the meat, which frees up the host to hang out, which is mostly what they like to do anyway.

On your occasion for breakfast, I'd've done all the eggs, some home fries, maybe huevos rancheros and whipped up Bloody Marys with no Worcestershire sauce, all while saying "shit, I love to cook. Sit there in your jammies and drink coffee." YMMV, I love to cook and wave a knife around, but I've always regarded it as taking a no doubt pain-in-the-ass thing "oh god, what do we have to feed him??" and making it pleasant for all involved. Or at least those who don't mind my cooking. It's all in the attitude. I'm not preachy and annoying unless you really press me, then I try to be pretty concise and non-judgemental about everyone's diet. Because that's how I like to be treated.

On preview: Frowner, most vegetarians I know would never show up expecting to be accomodated. Eating beforehand, bringing food, subtlely noshing on things that are permissible are all things we all do. I'd much rather take care of myself than make someone have extra shit to worry about to make me comfortable. After all this time, I've gotten so much crazy attitude about it that I try to make it as effortless for everyone as possible. As a result, I find even dedicated carnivores tripping over themselves to feed me things with no meat.
posted by nevercalm at 4:55 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't tend to eat a lot of meat myself, but I think there's a massive distinction you need to draw in your mind between a moral decision and a preference based on ideas about what's a good diet. Others have a responsibility to not make you eat something that is morally repugnant to you, but they don't have a responsibility to provide food that conforms to your idea of a healthy diet any more than they have a responsibility to provide food that conforms to my idea of a delicious meal. If I don't think the vegetables were seasoned correctly, I don't have a right to demand that this be corrected; and similarly, if you don't think that the food they are serving you is wholesome enough, it's not appropriate for you to complain about it. If you are sufficiently concerned about your concept of a healthy diet that it conflicts with your social instincts to share the food that is offered to you, then you need to start bringing your own food with you. As a host I would be incredibly annoyed to go to the trouble of making a separate vegetarian meal (which I'm more than happy to do for genuine vegetarians) only to discover that I was actually being ordered to make food according to a mere preference. I'd feel like someone had told me, 'I love Italian food, and so I insist that it's made for me wherever I go'.
posted by Acheman at 5:14 PM on December 26, 2011 [7 favorites]

Vegetarian is not communicating your needs effectively. There are plenty of reasons people eat what they eat. For me, getting into finer points of why is usually pretty boring. Your description doesn't make it clear to me what you do eat. If there are menu options you can rely on when ordering with a group, speak up. I have some dietary restrictions; can we add an order of Buddha's Delight/ egg drop soup / etc.? Breakfast: I have some dietary restrictions, I brought some tofu, do you mind if I bake some for my breakfast? or Do you, by any chance have a can of beans? I've occasionally tried to feed someone with difficult food issues, and I'm usually pleased if they just make it easy for me to give them a meal without too much trouble, or too much questioning.
posted by theora55 at 5:36 PM on December 26, 2011 [2 favorites]

Also, OP, you are being pretty wishy washy with your diet here, and so saying you can't eat something is really inappropriate, honestly. Especially if you can, but choose not to. I have a pretty legitimate reason for not eating most foods, but I rarely ever say I can't eat something. Mostly because I could eat them, but I would most definitely suffer the consequences of my IBS hell if I did. Now, sometimes something looks so darn good and it's been so long that I eat it anyway... But I am always clear about the fact that I CAN eat most foods, but choose not to because of my IBS. I straight up cannot have black beans or garbanzo beans. They are the spawn of satan and will never inhabit my guts ever ever ever because of TERRIBLE DOOM GUT.

But yes, "can't" is a strong word if you aren't sticking to a particular diet. Become veggie or pesce or vegan and Be It, or not at all. Because being in the middle and expecting people to be a slave to your, in reality, whims is really unfair and frustrating.
posted by two lights above the sea at 5:49 PM on December 26, 2011 [6 favorites]

As a recovered vegetarian, I'm personally pissed off by people who call themselves vegetarian and then eat fish and chicken. While these animals are not mammals, they were living creatures. I especially dislike the moral-types who eat chicken and fish. They're totally, well, bogus.
posted by ye#ara at 5:57 PM on December 26, 2011

I'm not really understanding your dietary restrictions. You say you can eat poultry if it comes to that, but no General Tso's? It sounds like the issue is not with meat, but are more ad hoc -- "I don't eat fried stuff, nothing with breading, and no sweet sauces either." In which case it's really not communicating the relevant information to say you're vegetarian, because you're not, and there's other stuff you can't eat, too.
posted by jayder at 6:45 PM on December 26, 2011

As a vegan, I do get the frustration with people not getting that vegetarian means "no meat" and vegan means "no meat, no eggs, no dairy, no animal products" - but I don't blame other people / flexitarians for this. That may be part of it, but I think it's mostly that some people are really dense. Or, okay, more charitably - some people are just really unfamiliar with vegetarianism, don't know any vegetarians themselves, and just can't grasp what it is to not eat meat because they eat it all the time and have no dietary restrictions themselves. Or maybe they know one person who doesn't eat red meat for his heart and that's all they can grasp. I have had a conversation that literally went: "I'm vegan, so that means I don't eat any meat, no chicken, no poultry at all, no fish, no eggs, no milk, no dairy at all." / "So, do you eat eggs?" "No, no eggs, no milk, or dairy." "So, could you eat something with butter in it?" "Nope, I don't eat any animal products." "But you eat fish, right? That's not meat." (And so on.)

Overall, nthing what Frowner said. You don't have to further limit your own diet, just change how you approach and talk about it. And if saying that you eat a mostly vegetarian diet pisses off vegetarians, then seriously, screw those people. Your choices have nothing to do with anyone else's choices, y'know? And even if they did - by eating your mostly vegetarian diet, you're still helping animals as much as someone who eats mostly vegetarian for animal rights reasons, so it's silly for anyone else to be pissed.
posted by fireflies at 6:45 PM on December 26, 2011

I meant: It sounds like the issue is not with meat, but the restrictions are more ad hoc

damn iPhone
posted by jayder at 6:48 PM on December 26, 2011

Like you, I'm a mostly-pescetarian, and I claim to be vegetarian all the time for convenience. I have even high-fived other (real) vegetarians when they realize I'm "one of them" but honestly that's about the most awkward thing that's ever happened wrt my fake-vegetarianism. Getting called out on it is nbd but yes, beware that it can be confusing.

If there's a host/hostess preparing you food, assume that they want to feed you something you will eat and go into enough detail that you can arrive at an edible option for you, and then thank them for being accommodating. Option B like others have said is to BYO.

ALSO: Even if you explain in the gory detail, don't assume people will remember from food-event to food-event (maybe that's what happened with the Chinese food? Hard to tell from your wording). Just remember to repeat your food restriction warning every time. I once had a long-distance boyfriend who cooked me beef & broccoli the first night of one of my visits -- the veggies were separate, so I was gorging myself on broccoli and asked if he had any cheese or something around and there was this whole, "wait, what? but why aren't you eating the beef...?" moment and it took me to realize he had forgotten about my one and only dietary thing at the time (no red meat). Yeah we hadn't seen each other in a couple months, but if your boyfriend who you talk to every day forgets, you can bet that EVERYONE ELSE WILL FORGET TOO. They might remember that you're a weird eater, or something, but probably not the deets.

So remind people! Especially if they are cooking for you or otherwise in charge of achieving group food harmony. Use whatever best explanation you've decided on after reading the rest of these responses. But still remind people when it's not too late for them to use that info.
posted by mokudekiru at 6:54 PM on December 26, 2011

I know lots and lots of people who are vegetarian for environmental reasons, not "animal rights" reasons. Many of them will eat sustainably raised meat and dairy, some will eat venison (deer are overpopulated here), depending on their ethos they may eat some seafood that is sustainably harvested or they may feel that there is no such thing as sustainable seafood.

When they are traveling in places without sustainable options (I used to live in Durham, NC and now live in Decatur, GA--two cities known for their good sustainable food) or in the company of non-environmentally conscious people, they say they are vegetarian, because the previous paragraph is very hard to explain quickly. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, and sharing many of these views I usually just say "I don't eat a lot of meat."
posted by hydropsyche at 6:56 PM on December 26, 2011

My advice here is to articulate this in terms of the food rather than trying to express this in terms of your identity. When people are ordering Chinese food, ask if they can include a vegetarian or fish dish.

There was a time when I didn't really eat red meat. It wasn't a strict decision-- I just stopped eating it. Generally, when someone hosts you for dinner, they should ask, "Do you have any preferences for dinner?/I'm making X, is that ok?" and you should reply with, "Could we have something with fish or something vegetarian?" As I said, the focus is the food preference, not your personal identity.

That said, I have cut down my meat consumption-- but it's a dietary preference. I prefer certain kinds of food because it's healthier for me to eat those foods. I also prefer not to be hungry when visiting someone else's home. I control my own diet often and eat at the home of those who don't have the most basic of health food options rarely. The healthy vastly outweighs the less-than-healthy.
posted by deanc at 6:59 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

It's your prerogative to be as finicky an eater as you want, but unless you're a child it's then your responsibility to get your needs met, not your friends'.

Why was only General Tso's ordered - where were you when the ordering was going on? If you have such finicky tastes that you'll then refuse to eat something that's within your allowable range (e.g. chicken) then you shouldn't give a list of likes/dislikes to the person ordering but instead make sure you're present at the time of ordering so you can pick out something specific that you know you will eat.

Ditto for Christmas - now, to begin with, eggs and toast might not be the best breakfast in the world, but if you're a guest in someone's home, you shouldn't be so demanding - you were provided a roof over your head and suitable food to eat. If they're only served sausage and you couldn't eat anything, I'd be more sympathetic, but you were able to eat something ...but again, if that's such an unfulfilling breakfast, you need to fix that yourself - if you're able, take a drive to the store and get some fruit (perhaps a fruit basket so you can disguise it as a house-gift....) or after you leave their house, have a second breakfast or something that's more to your liking.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 7:25 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh - and I'm not a vegetarian, but if I were your friend I would be VERY annoyed if you called yourself a vegetarian, because you aren't. Vegetarians do not eat meat (and that includes fish and chicken) so if you DO eat meat but call yourself a vegetarian, you would be lying, and I wouldn't appreciate my friends lying to me.... I'd be especially annoyed if they were lying to increase the work I had to do and decrease the work they had to do for their own personal gain.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 7:39 PM on December 26, 2011 [1 favorite]

I was once a vegetarian.... only five years, and folk falsely calling themselves vegetarian when they were not was what made my life difficult over that time. Please don't say that. I get really angry about it. (And people who claim to have allergies to things they don't because they want to be a bit special. Allergies are deadly serious.)

I hardly eat any meats. I eat lots of beef, but pretty much all of the others make my stomach turn. I've often wondered how the fake vegetarians would respond if I said I was a vegetarian but that I made an exception for beef and only beef.

I"m a bit different though. If we go out for Thai food and someone orders a chicken stir-fry, I'll eat the veggies and sauce and leave the meat. At Indian restaurants I'll pick chicken out of butter chicken and put the sauce on rice and I'll remove the octopus off marinara pizzas.

I tell people that I'm fussy about my meats and that I don't share at restaurants. Everyone laughs because they think I"m joking. I tell them that I"m serious, I"m a youngest child and that I don't share. And then later I remind them when they're ordering that if they order dishes like pate, oysters or poached fish I will not let them touch the dish I ordered because the other 8 people at the table will want a taste of mine and I won't be able to eat theirs.

All my friends have got to know this about me over time. I've always been fussy about meats. BUT I do apologise to my fellow diners and all my hosts. I know it pisses people off and I accept that it does. If I go to someone else's house and they are cooking, unless they ask my restrictions, I never mention my fussiness. There is ALWAYS something I can eat.... bread, vegetables, salad, dessert, wine, chocolate. I"m not there for the food, I"m there for the company and I can always have a sandwich when I get home if I want.

I'm a bit rambly.... but really, just don't call yourself a vegetarian, for the sake of all the true vegetarians and for the sake of good communication. (And even when I was a vegetarian I always felt like a fraud when other vegetarians congratulated a fellow comrade, I don't really give much of a toss about the animal rights thing... most meat just makes me utterly squeamish).
posted by taff at 1:46 AM on December 27, 2011

Response by poster: Ok. That was my feeling. Just don't do it. I don't like to lie anyway, so I haven't been. I didn't expect to be so vilified by some responders for something I was only thinking of doing to help meet my very specific and very real health needs, but thanks for the clarifications. Marking resolved.
posted by rainbaby at 3:43 AM on December 27, 2011

It's easy to see from your question itself, why hosts would be confused. You are trying to limit meat consumption but you eat chicken and fish, so it doesn't seem outrageous to think you could take the bacon off the scallops. This is not vilifying, more just to point out that you're having trouble explaining it to the people you're asking for advice; I expect hosts would be puzzled too unless you are really really specific about your "preferences."
posted by jayder at 5:17 AM on December 27, 2011 [1 favorite]

I describe myself as vegetarian, but will eat meat-based stock, for example. (I'm not keen on it, it's more of don't ask/don't tell because I dislike starvation more.) I don't mind what you call yourself, but you might resolve some of your problems by keeping a stricter diet. People have an easier time coping with broad, clear lines, like "no meat, none at all", rather than "poultry sometimes, maybe".
posted by anaelith at 7:00 AM on December 27, 2011

I have a lot of dietary preferences and it doesn't seem like any big deal to me to be served a meal that isn't to my spec once in a while. I find the things I can eat, and am happy for them ("No sausage for me, thanks, but this salad is amazing! Is that cumin in the dressing?") Unless you are diabetic/hypoglycemic and brief hunger is a medical issue for you, I don't see that it's anything you can't live with, especially given the distractions of good company and presents. I can maybe see bringing the issue up if you are staying for an entire weekend, or for a food-centered holiday like Thanksgiving, but for a single meal I just make due. IMO it's the price of keeping a restricted diet.

We handle the food restrictions for our young daughter differently. She has multiple severe food allergies, and whenever we go anywhere we pack food for her. It's part of our routine, does not impose on our hosts in any way, and we are always 100% certain that ingredients and preparations are what she needs. I wouldn't dream of asking our host to prepare something special for my kid, both because it is a PITA for them, and because the list of restrictions for her is long and complicated (sort of like OP's!), and there is the possibility of inadvertent cross-contamination during preparation. It is just easier all around to tote along safe food.
posted by apparently at 7:54 AM on December 27, 2011

Best answer: I didn't expect to be so vilified by some responders for something I was only thinking of doing to help meet my very specific and very real health needs

I feel bad for AskMe questioners when they get hostile blow-back, but I understand why it happens: people take it personally and lots of times readers envision how they would react to dealing with the questioner personally, or perhaps the behavior of the questioner brings up a lot of bad memories. Generally people are fine with accommodating someone's moral or religious dietary rules, but dealing with picky eaters who want their pickiness to be accommodated is annoying.

Generally you have to accept that you can't really control your food intake outside our home as strictly as you can inside it, so you have to make allowances for that (taff seems to deal in his/her own eccentric way). Back when I just casually stopped eating red meat, people cooking for me picked up on the fact that I liked chicken, and that would be available when I went to their house. With you, it's actually sort of unclear what you will eat and what you won't. Try to pose this in terms of, "rainbaby prefers fish and vegetarian dishes." It wouldn't have been out of line for you to express a wish for pancakes at breakfast, either.

I eat quite modestly these days, and the way I deal with this when the food situation is out of my control is to take responsibility for either going hungry or briefly going outside my dietary comfort zone and accepting the consequences.
posted by deanc at 7:56 AM on December 27, 2011 [1 favorite]

I care - vegetarian is a word and I expect people who use it to be using it in good faith to mean what "vegetarian" is expected to mean.

Frankly, your diet sounds like way less of a PITA than how my mother and a half-dozen people I know pretend to eat. If you have needs, just spell them out. Your reasons are not Important.

And think of this- suppose in one case, someone hears you describe yourself as vegetarian. Three days later, they see you happily eating chicken. Would you blame that person for assuming you don't take your diet seriously?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:54 AM on December 27, 2011

I wonder if the difference between "I am vegetarian" and "I am eating vegetarian" (or "I am trying to eat vegetarian" or "I tend to eat vegetarian") might help?

My wife is vegan and I am pretty strictly vegetarian (no meat or leather, for instance, but eggs and wool are fine; but i'm also lactose-intolerant so I don't have much dairy either) and so if I'm talking to other vegans I'll often say that "at home we eat vegan" and that never seems to ruffle any feathers, but I bet "at home I am vegan" would.
posted by mendel at 9:05 PM on December 27, 2011 [3 favorites]

"I'm flexitarian. But I'd really rather not have meat; it doesn't sit well with my digestion. Is there (going to be) a veggie option?"

Or

"I don't usually eat meat."
posted by windykites at 9:59 PM on September 12, 2012