Can someone act rude out of awkwardness?
December 20, 2011 8:25 PM Subscribe
Went out to see a movie with a friend, and his behavior confused me tremendously.
(If anyone wants a little context, feel free to check out my previous question).
So I have been spending some time with a male friend that I occasionally get intimate with (hooking up, sleeping in the same bed...stereotypical FWB. Don't know if this information matters but I'll put it out there for reference), and recently we met up to see a movie. On our way to our particular theatre, I found him intensely checking out another woman, which was fine by me. It was very obvious, and the woman smiled back, being a little flirty and all that. I didn't make a comment because it wasn't my business, but then he made a point to tell me he was staring in her direction because "she looked very familiar". I acknowledged that and we proceeded to see the movie.
On the way out, the exact same thing happened again, this time with another woman who was accompanied by her husband. Once again I felt no need to make a comment, and yet again he was compelled to give a half-assed reason for his staring, and waited to see what I had to say. This was when I felt truly confounded. I had shown no signs of jealousy, and having a brother and other male friends I understand perfectly when men stare at attractive women (and vice versa), it's just what people do. So why does this guy have to constantly be vocal and make blatant excuses for his behavior, thus making something that is otherwise insignificant very awkward? (I must point out that this had already occurred once before in the recent past, at another occasion.)
I'm very curious as to what his behavior was all about. My female friends said that perhaps that was his (awful) way of rousing jealousy out of me in order to test the waters to see if I like him more than a friend. That to me sounds incredibly immature and plain silly. My impression is that this guy is just an incredibly awkward person, but I really have no telling.
So I guess my question is: can social awkwardness be a good explanation for his superfluous excuses for simply "eye-fucking" other women around a female friend? Having typed all of this and reading it over, I realize my question errs on the petty side, but I am genuinely curious to know what motivated him to act the way he did. Thanks!
(If anyone wants a little context, feel free to check out my previous question).
So I have been spending some time with a male friend that I occasionally get intimate with (hooking up, sleeping in the same bed...stereotypical FWB. Don't know if this information matters but I'll put it out there for reference), and recently we met up to see a movie. On our way to our particular theatre, I found him intensely checking out another woman, which was fine by me. It was very obvious, and the woman smiled back, being a little flirty and all that. I didn't make a comment because it wasn't my business, but then he made a point to tell me he was staring in her direction because "she looked very familiar". I acknowledged that and we proceeded to see the movie.
On the way out, the exact same thing happened again, this time with another woman who was accompanied by her husband. Once again I felt no need to make a comment, and yet again he was compelled to give a half-assed reason for his staring, and waited to see what I had to say. This was when I felt truly confounded. I had shown no signs of jealousy, and having a brother and other male friends I understand perfectly when men stare at attractive women (and vice versa), it's just what people do. So why does this guy have to constantly be vocal and make blatant excuses for his behavior, thus making something that is otherwise insignificant very awkward? (I must point out that this had already occurred once before in the recent past, at another occasion.)
I'm very curious as to what his behavior was all about. My female friends said that perhaps that was his (awful) way of rousing jealousy out of me in order to test the waters to see if I like him more than a friend. That to me sounds incredibly immature and plain silly. My impression is that this guy is just an incredibly awkward person, but I really have no telling.
So I guess my question is: can social awkwardness be a good explanation for his superfluous excuses for simply "eye-fucking" other women around a female friend? Having typed all of this and reading it over, I realize my question errs on the petty side, but I am genuinely curious to know what motivated him to act the way he did. Thanks!
Best answer: My hunch is that it's more likely that he's really mixed up about what he feels towards you and is projecting that on you.
HE'S probably the one who's wrestling with some early feelings towards you, except you guys weren't going to be doing that kind of thing so he doesn't know what to do about that, especially since he's also reacting to other women still because technically you're both single, which is confusing him even more. And that's manifesting itself as him sort of projecting that nascent romantic-type stuff onto YOU, which is why he was acting like you WOULD be jealous of what he did and why he was making dumb excuses.
Sort of like what your friends were guessing was going on, only your friends were assuming it was more calculating and I'm thinking it was more a sort of flaily "I feel this/no I don't/gah I'm so confused" kind of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:31 PM on December 20, 2011 [18 favorites]
HE'S probably the one who's wrestling with some early feelings towards you, except you guys weren't going to be doing that kind of thing so he doesn't know what to do about that, especially since he's also reacting to other women still because technically you're both single, which is confusing him even more. And that's manifesting itself as him sort of projecting that nascent romantic-type stuff onto YOU, which is why he was acting like you WOULD be jealous of what he did and why he was making dumb excuses.
Sort of like what your friends were guessing was going on, only your friends were assuming it was more calculating and I'm thinking it was more a sort of flaily "I feel this/no I don't/gah I'm so confused" kind of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:31 PM on December 20, 2011 [18 favorites]
I'm with your friends. It's obvious he wants to have a conversation about this. Perhaps he wants to know if you have a problem with him seeing other women, perhaps he wants to see if you act jealous, which might mean that you're beyond the FWB zone. You won't know until you just flat out ask him what's up with him.
posted by Gilbert at 8:32 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Gilbert at 8:32 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
My guess is this is a pattern programmed by either past GF or family interactions (mom with dad).
If you've never had the talk with FWB where he knows you well enough to know you were raised with men and not jealous when such things happen and feel such things are insignificant, he's just falling back on the playbook others have given him.
Wonderful opportunity for deprogramming, I say. +1 to pompomtom.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:34 PM on December 20, 2011
If you've never had the talk with FWB where he knows you well enough to know you were raised with men and not jealous when such things happen and feel such things are insignificant, he's just falling back on the playbook others have given him.
Wonderful opportunity for deprogramming, I say. +1 to pompomtom.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:34 PM on December 20, 2011
Hah, okay, well I looked back on your past question, per invitation.
+1 to EmpressCallipygos, as well. Maybe he is more into you than you seem to be into him, and that is making him all kinds of nervous.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:38 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
+1 to EmpressCallipygos, as well. Maybe he is more into you than you seem to be into him, and that is making him all kinds of nervous.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:38 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This and your last question are classic overthinking. Relax. If he's behaving in a way that makes you feel weird or confuses you, talk to him about it.
A behavior situation like this could be any number of reasons or none at all. We can't really say, and any theories you get here will probably just color how you view future stuff.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:43 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
A behavior situation like this could be any number of reasons or none at all. We can't really say, and any theories you get here will probably just color how you view future stuff.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:43 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Also, your title "Can someone act rude..." and the fact that the second time he did this you went all flippy inside, makes me wonder if you are as detached as you seem to think you are.
If it truly didn't matter to you'd just brush off his awkwardness just like you'd brush of the staring, wouldn't you?
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:43 PM on December 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
If it truly didn't matter to you'd just brush off his awkwardness just like you'd brush of the staring, wouldn't you?
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:43 PM on December 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
gah! "If it truly didn't matter to *you*, you'd just brush off his awkwardness just like you'd brush *off* the staring ...
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:45 PM on December 20, 2011
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:45 PM on December 20, 2011
My knee-jerk reaction is to wonder whether you are wondering if he has super-secret feelings for you. Maybe for ego's sake. Or maybe because you have super-secret feelings for him.
But I wouldn't want to assume, so I'd ask you about it.
Like you may want to ask him.
posted by vivid postcard at 8:54 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
But I wouldn't want to assume, so I'd ask you about it.
Like you may want to ask him.
posted by vivid postcard at 8:54 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Let me guess, is he quite handsome? Maybe he's just looking for attention/affirmation from you. He's bored with the standard females swooning thing. Having females swooning under your observation is like adding pepper to a baked potato. I think this is just plain narcissism and nothing more.
posted by Land Ho at 9:03 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Land Ho at 9:03 PM on December 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
This question seems a bit overwrought. Ask him if you like. Or ask yourself why you're caring.
posted by ead at 9:22 PM on December 20, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by ead at 9:22 PM on December 20, 2011 [11 favorites]
Best answer: So I guess my question is: can social awkwardness be a good explanation for his superfluous excuses for simply "eye-fucking" other women around a female friend? Having typed all of this and reading it over, I realize my question errs on the petty side, but I am genuinely curious to know what motivated him to act the way he did. Thanks!
So this is not an easy lesson to learn. But it doesn't matter why people do the things they do. It's so tempting to try to understand it, but it really doesn't matter. If you don't like what they do, talk to them about it. If it doesn't change to something you like, move on. That's it. People are going to do what they do. Trying to analyze it only leads to ruin.
Seriously, you can't get into anyone's head but your own.
posted by sweetkid at 9:31 PM on December 20, 2011 [20 favorites]
So this is not an easy lesson to learn. But it doesn't matter why people do the things they do. It's so tempting to try to understand it, but it really doesn't matter. If you don't like what they do, talk to them about it. If it doesn't change to something you like, move on. That's it. People are going to do what they do. Trying to analyze it only leads to ruin.
Seriously, you can't get into anyone's head but your own.
posted by sweetkid at 9:31 PM on December 20, 2011 [20 favorites]
I'd be careful about assuming he wants to call your attention to this. My first thought is that he was really embarrassed to be caught blatantly staring at other women in your presence and would have made a more believable excuse if he could have. Some men are taught that staring is rude no matter what, so it could have nothing to do with his feelings toward you. And maybe an FWB situation is still novel enough to him that the usual conditioned reflex in a relationship, must-not-appear-to-be-checking-out-women, still kicks in. I usually feel embarrassed to be caught checking someone out, and I'm single.
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 9:33 PM on December 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 9:33 PM on December 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
Maybe he feels guilty for obviously staring at other women and thinks it offends you?
On preview: what Dixon Ticonderoga (only pencil I'll use!) said.
posted by tully_monster at 9:38 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
On preview: what Dixon Ticonderoga (only pencil I'll use!) said.
posted by tully_monster at 9:38 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've had guy friends (not FWB, very clearly Just Friends) overcompensate for flirting with or ogling another woman in my presence. Some men like to keep their sexual lives a bit more under wrap and are embarrassed; some feel it's rude to me because of the dance-with-the-one-that-brung-ya clause, i.e. it's impolite to be substantially distracted from the friend you're ostensibly there to see; some have a hangup about treating one woman as a potential sexual partner with another one looking on; some think something else, I know not what.
It's not necessarily about making you jealous or some other freaky mind game, is what I'm getting at here. Let it go, or ask him, but either way stop trying to figure it out on your own because that shit'll make you crazy.
posted by gingerest at 9:42 PM on December 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
It's not necessarily about making you jealous or some other freaky mind game, is what I'm getting at here. Let it go, or ask him, but either way stop trying to figure it out on your own because that shit'll make you crazy.
posted by gingerest at 9:42 PM on December 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
My go-to response to any and all bizarre behavior from people is that, in general, most people re really weird, awkward human beings that sometimes do really random crap. My guess is that he either has latent feelings towards you that he is not sophisticated enough to deal with, or he was trying to rile you up with jealousy as a preclude to angry!sex.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 9:58 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 9:58 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is a clumsy version of a Jealousy Plotline, which is supposed to be done in a less blatant way with women the PUA already knows.
Usually, it's just meant to show that he's a cool guy with options and you'd better be on your best behavior to keep the competition at bay.
In this case, it's to get a rise out of you. Any reaction at all will be proof that you're into him more than you've been admitting. Because if you were as cool as you pretend to be, you would not notice this at all, much less question it.
What he will do if you mention it, I'm not sure. He may go, well, it seems you have feelings for me, I feel the same/I understand, but don't get too attached, wink wink! Or, you jealous harpy, how dare you try to control me, I am out of here, publicising your jealous harpydom to anyone who will listen!
The keyword, regardless of motive, is "rude". Rewarding rude behaviour will get you more of it. It's up to your discernment what form not-rewarding this will take.
posted by tel3path at 12:25 AM on December 21, 2011
Usually, it's just meant to show that he's a cool guy with options and you'd better be on your best behavior to keep the competition at bay.
In this case, it's to get a rise out of you. Any reaction at all will be proof that you're into him more than you've been admitting. Because if you were as cool as you pretend to be, you would not notice this at all, much less question it.
What he will do if you mention it, I'm not sure. He may go, well, it seems you have feelings for me, I feel the same/I understand, but don't get too attached, wink wink! Or, you jealous harpy, how dare you try to control me, I am out of here, publicising your jealous harpydom to anyone who will listen!
The keyword, regardless of motive, is "rude". Rewarding rude behaviour will get you more of it. It's up to your discernment what form not-rewarding this will take.
posted by tel3path at 12:25 AM on December 21, 2011
Eye of the beholder, etc.; maybe FWB thought the rude thing was to NOT apologize for gazing.
Your reaction counts. I know it's easy to get taken aback, but if you are really not caring that he's looking, next time he starts the awkward excuse-making let him know, right then and there "Hey, it's okay for you to look! I'm not jelous! No need for excuses!"
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 12:31 AM on December 21, 2011
Your reaction counts. I know it's easy to get taken aback, but if you are really not caring that he's looking, next time he starts the awkward excuse-making let him know, right then and there "Hey, it's okay for you to look! I'm not jelous! No need for excuses!"
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 12:31 AM on December 21, 2011
He was probably admonished by someone when he was checking out women in past.
They probably told him it wasn't polite, or never to let another woman see you do it. Or he might have lost a past FWB over it, who may have had feelings for him and got irritated.
I dunno, can you just ask him?
posted by The ____ of Justice at 1:37 AM on December 21, 2011
They probably told him it wasn't polite, or never to let another woman see you do it. Or he might have lost a past FWB over it, who may have had feelings for him and got irritated.
I dunno, can you just ask him?
posted by The ____ of Justice at 1:37 AM on December 21, 2011
I wouldn't ask him - if he's really trying to provoke a response in some complicated way, he's not going to give a straight answer. Wait until next time and just shrug your shoulders and say 'do what you want - it's not like we're in a relationship!'
And a lot depends on how much he was staring at these other women; I'd say some checking out of people is normal for both sexes but staring intently for a while less so - most people either catch themselves, or someone else notices and stares at you staring and it all gets uncomfortable.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:46 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
And a lot depends on how much he was staring at these other women; I'd say some checking out of people is normal for both sexes but staring intently for a while less so - most people either catch themselves, or someone else notices and stares at you staring and it all gets uncomfortable.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:46 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
He may just be a natural oogler - maybe you just didn't notice it before because you haven't spent much time in public with him.
posted by yarly at 4:28 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by yarly at 4:28 AM on December 21, 2011
He's pulling your pigtails and you're calling him a poopyface.
It seems like the two of you are dancing around the idea that you should date. Maybe you should date?
posted by xingcat at 4:29 AM on December 21, 2011
It seems like the two of you are dancing around the idea that you should date. Maybe you should date?
posted by xingcat at 4:29 AM on December 21, 2011
He doesn't really deep down believe FWB with a woman is possible. He wants it to be, but how could it be? So he is telegraphing his free status, both to test you and to prove it to himself.
posted by thinkpiece at 5:27 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by thinkpiece at 5:27 AM on December 21, 2011
If you agreed to be in a FWB relationship with him, why do you care? He's probably not trying to make you jealous. He's probably showing you that he doesn't have romantic feelings for you and doesn't want you to mistake going to the movies as a boyfriend/girlfriend thing. He probably senses or is worried that you might have feelings for him, and this is his way of discouraging any development of romantic feelings towards him so you guys can continue using each other for physical purposes.
posted by anniecat at 6:11 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by anniecat at 6:11 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: hooking up, sleeping in the same bed...stereotypical FWB
"We never clearly discussed how this would work and now it's gone a bit weird" is, alas, also stereotypical FWB, at least a lot of the time. Which isn't to say that casual FWB relationships can't work, but the number of people who think they can manage one without any emotional complications is somewhat larger than the number of people who actually do.
The standard cultural narrative we have of heterosexual FWB relationships getting messy is that the female half wanted to get more serious than the male half, and that this led to a tearful conflict of expectations. Maybe he thinks that's what's going to happen and is trying to head it off at the pass somehow, or maybe he's trying very hard to make it like that in his head so he can process it more easily. Or maybe he, like quite a few young men, has been socialised to think he's a straightforward simple being who just wants sex and can't be bothered with all that girly emotional stuff, and as a result is turning into a whirling mixed-signal-spewing tornado of confusion when his feelings aren't quite lining up with that. Feelings don't have to get to omg-I-love-you-forever levels to cause confusion, in that context.
I would say, though, that whatever's going on in his head doesn't have to take up space in yours. If I had all the hours back that I've spent pondering weird pseudo-boyfriend behaviour, I could probably have written two novels and single-handedly sailed round the world or something, and in retrospect that would have been a hell of a lot more fun.
posted by Catseye at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
"We never clearly discussed how this would work and now it's gone a bit weird" is, alas, also stereotypical FWB, at least a lot of the time. Which isn't to say that casual FWB relationships can't work, but the number of people who think they can manage one without any emotional complications is somewhat larger than the number of people who actually do.
The standard cultural narrative we have of heterosexual FWB relationships getting messy is that the female half wanted to get more serious than the male half, and that this led to a tearful conflict of expectations. Maybe he thinks that's what's going to happen and is trying to head it off at the pass somehow, or maybe he's trying very hard to make it like that in his head so he can process it more easily. Or maybe he, like quite a few young men, has been socialised to think he's a straightforward simple being who just wants sex and can't be bothered with all that girly emotional stuff, and as a result is turning into a whirling mixed-signal-spewing tornado of confusion when his feelings aren't quite lining up with that. Feelings don't have to get to omg-I-love-you-forever levels to cause confusion, in that context.
I would say, though, that whatever's going on in his head doesn't have to take up space in yours. If I had all the hours back that I've spent pondering weird pseudo-boyfriend behaviour, I could probably have written two novels and single-handedly sailed round the world or something, and in retrospect that would have been a hell of a lot more fun.
posted by Catseye at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
To me it sounds like he is an a-hole who knows he is an a-hole but doesn't want you to think that about him..to protect his own ego. I would think twice about this FWB plus movie dates, especially when he doesn't seem to care about your feelings except wrt his own.
posted by bquarters at 8:02 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by bquarters at 8:02 AM on December 21, 2011
To me, the "rousing jealousy" theory seems incomprehensible and I don't think I'm good friends with any dude that would do something so simultaneously calculated, dumb and ineffective. I know waay more socially awkward people that might get caught up staring, especially friends that don't get out that much.
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 8:05 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 8:05 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: This has all been insightful for me...I feel that if he and I are to continue our interactions in such an ambiguous and second-guessing manner (which we both are guilty of), I'm not going to have a lot of fun from our future get-togethers, knowing the obsessive mindset I get into sometimes. It's a shame, to hang out with him less frequently, because I really like this person otherwise! I think there should be a middle ground somewhere between talking it out and refraining from seeing him at all, but I don't know what that would be. Hmmmm....
(Happy holidays to you all, btw!)
posted by 01080591 at 1:13 PM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
(Happy holidays to you all, btw!)
posted by 01080591 at 1:13 PM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Honey, if he's fun to be with, and you really like him, why aren't you dating him? I know "talking it out" sucks, but sometimes you gotta suck it up and do it, you know?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:18 PM on December 21, 2011
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:18 PM on December 21, 2011
Response by poster: I think it's because I shouldn't consider dating someone that's potentially as passive-aggressive as I am. Solely as friends though, I don't think having this similar trait is a problem. Perhaps having a FWB is not as simple as I thought after all, because I feel that I've done my part to stay firmly as a friend around him. But it seems not quite sustainable!
posted by 01080591 at 3:18 PM on December 21, 2011
posted by 01080591 at 3:18 PM on December 21, 2011
You are all right here:
"Perhaps having a FWB is not as simple as I thought after all, because I feel that I've done my part to stay firmly as a friend around him. But it seems not quite sustainable!"
FWB or not, flirting with other women, and obviously partnered women, is a red flag.
I'm sad you tried to stay neutral when he was kinda pissing on you by flirting with other women. Drop him now. Someone asked why you're not already dating him? It's because he's not date-worthy -- and he's openly shown you this.
I think he did this on occasions that would be easily interpreted as "a date" because he wants to keep sleeping with you without actually dating you. He wants to pre-empt any interpretations you might have about seeing a movie together, or whatever.
Only keep sleeping with him if you are OK with this. otherwise, DTMFA.
He was rude, but not out of awkwardness, but out of purpose. Hear his message. Do what you want to with that info.
Yes. I think he has treated you with disrespect. YMMV.
posted by jbenben at 1:31 AM on December 24, 2011
"Perhaps having a FWB is not as simple as I thought after all, because I feel that I've done my part to stay firmly as a friend around him. But it seems not quite sustainable!"
FWB or not, flirting with other women, and obviously partnered women, is a red flag.
I'm sad you tried to stay neutral when he was kinda pissing on you by flirting with other women. Drop him now. Someone asked why you're not already dating him? It's because he's not date-worthy -- and he's openly shown you this.
I think he did this on occasions that would be easily interpreted as "a date" because he wants to keep sleeping with you without actually dating you. He wants to pre-empt any interpretations you might have about seeing a movie together, or whatever.
Only keep sleeping with him if you are OK with this. otherwise, DTMFA.
He was rude, but not out of awkwardness, but out of purpose. Hear his message. Do what you want to with that info.
Yes. I think he has treated you with disrespect. YMMV.
posted by jbenben at 1:31 AM on December 24, 2011
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posted by pompomtom at 8:30 PM on December 20, 2011 [1 favorite]