Family member laid off, I survived. I hold resentment towards management, should I stay or go?
December 11, 2011 10:40 PM Subscribe
Brother was laid off by new owners, had a verbal agreement with previous owner to keep both of us, should I stay or go?
My company laid people off about a two months ago and my brother was cut. We both work in different parts of the company, but when we signed on, we were a package deal. We're a team, we work great as a team.
About 3 months ago the company was purchased and new owners came in. First thing they did was make cuts. My agreement to bring my brother was a verbal one with the old CEO because we had similar offers from other companies (to take both of us).
I'm not sure how I should feel about this approach the new owners have taken. They know he is related to me, but they still made the cut. And now our AE group has suffered greatly for it, since he was a critical member.
I don't know if this was some way to get me to quit; I have a significant severance package if laid off and hold a much higher position. Even when I approached certain members of the executive team about it they said they want to keep me on promote me within a year or two, but cuts had to be made.
It just seems really sloppy and not thought out, perhaps a sign of things to come.
I haven't taken it to the new CEO yet because there are 2 levels between me and him, but the executives above me don't know about that arrangement. So I'm biding my time to broach the subject.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? It's hard not to hold some resentment towards those that made the decision to let a perfectly capable individual go.
My company laid people off about a two months ago and my brother was cut. We both work in different parts of the company, but when we signed on, we were a package deal. We're a team, we work great as a team.
About 3 months ago the company was purchased and new owners came in. First thing they did was make cuts. My agreement to bring my brother was a verbal one with the old CEO because we had similar offers from other companies (to take both of us).
I'm not sure how I should feel about this approach the new owners have taken. They know he is related to me, but they still made the cut. And now our AE group has suffered greatly for it, since he was a critical member.
I don't know if this was some way to get me to quit; I have a significant severance package if laid off and hold a much higher position. Even when I approached certain members of the executive team about it they said they want to keep me on promote me within a year or two, but cuts had to be made.
It just seems really sloppy and not thought out, perhaps a sign of things to come.
I haven't taken it to the new CEO yet because there are 2 levels between me and him, but the executives above me don't know about that arrangement. So I'm biding my time to broach the subject.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? It's hard not to hold some resentment towards those that made the decision to let a perfectly capable individual go.
Response by poster: That's a good response, things have changed. I guess I just wish they would honor the old stuff.
The reason we were offered the package deal is because that's what competitors were offering. Maybe he is my tag along, but since others still willing to do it, I don't know why I should stay where I am.
It just lacked some compassion on e-staff's part...and I'm afraid it means bad decisions in the future and loyalty to the company might not stand for much anymore.
posted by MeatFilter at 10:51 PM on December 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
The reason we were offered the package deal is because that's what competitors were offering. Maybe he is my tag along, but since others still willing to do it, I don't know why I should stay where I am.
It just lacked some compassion on e-staff's part...and I'm afraid it means bad decisions in the future and loyalty to the company might not stand for much anymore.
posted by MeatFilter at 10:51 PM on December 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: When companies lay off a percentage of their workforce they often have the plan (lay off x%), but then get the some of the details wrong.
Virtually everyone that I've known that has been in a company where x% of folks were let go know individuals that probably should have been retained (in their opinion). Having 100% correct judgement in these situations is near impossible.
it's undoubtedly more difficult when the affected person was a family member, but your post seems to indicate that the new management had no idea of previous agreements; so it's not fair to blame them for violating an agreement they were unaware of.
The new management will probably make other mistakes in managing your organization, but it may serve you to judge them on their overall performance in running the organization. Certainly pay them close scrutiny and make your career decisions accordingly.
Loyalty? That corporate social contract seems to be a dying one, it may behoove you to not count on loyalty from a corporation (friend, family member, or significant other, hell yes, from a corporation, probably not so much).
Good luck. If you decide to bail, you may want to set up your next situation before leaving.
posted by el io at 11:01 PM on December 11, 2011
Virtually everyone that I've known that has been in a company where x% of folks were let go know individuals that probably should have been retained (in their opinion). Having 100% correct judgement in these situations is near impossible.
it's undoubtedly more difficult when the affected person was a family member, but your post seems to indicate that the new management had no idea of previous agreements; so it's not fair to blame them for violating an agreement they were unaware of.
The new management will probably make other mistakes in managing your organization, but it may serve you to judge them on their overall performance in running the organization. Certainly pay them close scrutiny and make your career decisions accordingly.
Loyalty? That corporate social contract seems to be a dying one, it may behoove you to not count on loyalty from a corporation (friend, family member, or significant other, hell yes, from a corporation, probably not so much).
Good luck. If you decide to bail, you may want to set up your next situation before leaving.
posted by el io at 11:01 PM on December 11, 2011
Response by poster: Virtually everyone that I've known that has been in a company where x% of folks were let go know individuals that probably should have been retained (in their opinion). Having 100% correct judgement in these situations is near impossible.
Thanks for reminding me of this. From where they sit, the details can get confusing and I need to see if from their point of view. I'm going to approach the top of the org about this one at some point, when the opportunity presents itself. My guess is, after reading your post, they didn't know we were related at all.
They've promised me the world, so it seems odd to start the relationship on weird footing like they did, that probably means unintentional.
Loyalty? That corporate social contract seems to be a dying one, it may behoove you to not count on loyalty from a corporation
I felt like it was their with the last group, but new owners, new policies, new company, new type of loyalty.
posted by MeatFilter at 11:07 PM on December 11, 2011
Thanks for reminding me of this. From where they sit, the details can get confusing and I need to see if from their point of view. I'm going to approach the top of the org about this one at some point, when the opportunity presents itself. My guess is, after reading your post, they didn't know we were related at all.
They've promised me the world, so it seems odd to start the relationship on weird footing like they did, that probably means unintentional.
Loyalty? That corporate social contract seems to be a dying one, it may behoove you to not count on loyalty from a corporation
I felt like it was their with the last group, but new owners, new policies, new company, new type of loyalty.
posted by MeatFilter at 11:07 PM on December 11, 2011
Best answer: Layoffs are never any fun.
That said, I wouldn't read much into the fact that he was let go and you weren't. It's likely it wasn't even taken into consideration when making the cuts; new owners doing layoffs aren't that subtle.
I also wouldn't read much into them saying they want to promote you at some indefinite time in the future. Promises that things will get better are standard fare at layoff time.
Last but not least, layoffs are seldom a one time occurence. Given your discomfort with the situation anyway, I'd say it's time to move on.
If for some reason you decide to stay, you should keep in mind that your agreement with your old CEO went out the door when he did. You'll have to make a brand new agreement with the new CEO. Don't be shy about getting it in writing this time.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:12 PM on December 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
That said, I wouldn't read much into the fact that he was let go and you weren't. It's likely it wasn't even taken into consideration when making the cuts; new owners doing layoffs aren't that subtle.
I also wouldn't read much into them saying they want to promote you at some indefinite time in the future. Promises that things will get better are standard fare at layoff time.
Last but not least, layoffs are seldom a one time occurence. Given your discomfort with the situation anyway, I'd say it's time to move on.
If for some reason you decide to stay, you should keep in mind that your agreement with your old CEO went out the door when he did. You'll have to make a brand new agreement with the new CEO. Don't be shy about getting it in writing this time.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:12 PM on December 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm going to approach the top of the org about this one at some point, when the opportunity presents itself.
What exactly is your goal in doing that? Because you need to have one. The chances they will re-hire your brother seem slim to me, so if you're going to bring this up, you need to know what outcome your're looking for in this conversation.
If you and your brother had offers elsewhere and working together is your priority, then you should still be looking elsewhere.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:43 PM on December 11, 2011
What exactly is your goal in doing that? Because you need to have one. The chances they will re-hire your brother seem slim to me, so if you're going to bring this up, you need to know what outcome your're looking for in this conversation.
If you and your brother had offers elsewhere and working together is your priority, then you should still be looking elsewhere.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:43 PM on December 11, 2011
Response by poster: What exactly is your goal in doing that? Because you need to have one. The chances they will re-hire your brother seem slim to me, so if you're going to bring this up, you need to know what outcome your're looking for in this conversation.
The goal is a rehire while we make sure there is something else to transition to. At least it's income for him in the meantime. And maybe just to let them know my feelings towards it. I'm a big fan of being open with others and giving them honest feedback on their decisions.
Plus, him being there contributes to my success since he's very good at what he does, even if it's short term for both of us.
posted by MeatFilter at 12:10 AM on December 12, 2011
The goal is a rehire while we make sure there is something else to transition to. At least it's income for him in the meantime. And maybe just to let them know my feelings towards it. I'm a big fan of being open with others and giving them honest feedback on their decisions.
Plus, him being there contributes to my success since he's very good at what he does, even if it's short term for both of us.
posted by MeatFilter at 12:10 AM on December 12, 2011
I'm not sure why you think his being your brother should be in any way relevant to their decision.
As responsible business owners, it's their job to find concrete and objective metrics by which they can determine who should be made redundant. These metrics could be based on qualifications, skill levels, or on time served. In no circumstances should they be based on nepotism or on who gets on well with whom. This is not the mob! Of course perfectly competent people are going to end up being cut; they are going because the company can't afford their salary.
It reflects badly on your brother if he isn't able to make his own case adequately but needs you to advocate for him, and it reflects badly on you if you suggest that he should get special treatment purely because he's your brother.
If you want him rehired, you need to make a solid business case for hiring him, and you need to make it very clear that this is because of his skill set and not because he is your brother.
posted by emilyw at 3:45 AM on December 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
As responsible business owners, it's their job to find concrete and objective metrics by which they can determine who should be made redundant. These metrics could be based on qualifications, skill levels, or on time served. In no circumstances should they be based on nepotism or on who gets on well with whom. This is not the mob! Of course perfectly competent people are going to end up being cut; they are going because the company can't afford their salary.
It reflects badly on your brother if he isn't able to make his own case adequately but needs you to advocate for him, and it reflects badly on you if you suggest that he should get special treatment purely because he's your brother.
If you want him rehired, you need to make a solid business case for hiring him, and you need to make it very clear that this is because of his skill set and not because he is your brother.
posted by emilyw at 3:45 AM on December 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
I worked with my husband at a company where we had the same job. They fired him...and kept me.
I know that right now you want to go and fight and explain to them why this was a stupid plan and they're wrong, but my advice to you is this: Don't.
Take a deep breath, and set about not thinking about it. It's exceedingly unlikely that you're going to get him rehired, and you're putting yourself at risk in the process. If someone asks why your team's no longer as productive (or whatever), by all means, say "Oh, BroMeatFilter was a really integral part of our workflow, and we're struggling to adjust to not having him," but leave it at that.
Layoffs are an art, not a science--in the aftermath, there are always people looking around going "Oh, shit, we did what? And...shit, they're gone, too?"
If it's that important to you to work with your brother, start looking as a team for a new job, and see what you can find. And, in the meantime, keep going to work, doing your job, as it can only benefit you in the long run.
posted by MeghanC at 4:08 AM on December 12, 2011
I know that right now you want to go and fight and explain to them why this was a stupid plan and they're wrong, but my advice to you is this: Don't.
Take a deep breath, and set about not thinking about it. It's exceedingly unlikely that you're going to get him rehired, and you're putting yourself at risk in the process. If someone asks why your team's no longer as productive (or whatever), by all means, say "Oh, BroMeatFilter was a really integral part of our workflow, and we're struggling to adjust to not having him," but leave it at that.
Layoffs are an art, not a science--in the aftermath, there are always people looking around going "Oh, shit, we did what? And...shit, they're gone, too?"
If it's that important to you to work with your brother, start looking as a team for a new job, and see what you can find. And, in the meantime, keep going to work, doing your job, as it can only benefit you in the long run.
posted by MeghanC at 4:08 AM on December 12, 2011
A nearly identical experience happened to my wife and I some years ago. I was let go because the ownership knew that cutting my wife would destroy the already low morale, but they knew that she could not continue to work there after they had done that to me. It was a perfect situation for them -- cut two employees for the "price" of one.
Now, in our situation, the company had become an awful place for my wife to work, and she probably would have left anyway, but it certainly hastened her decision.
My advice to you would be to move on as soon as you can, but DO NOT quit your job without having a new one lined up in this economy, under ANY circumstances. It is the height of foolishness to do otherwise. Good luck.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:32 AM on December 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Now, in our situation, the company had become an awful place for my wife to work, and she probably would have left anyway, but it certainly hastened her decision.
My advice to you would be to move on as soon as you can, but DO NOT quit your job without having a new one lined up in this economy, under ANY circumstances. It is the height of foolishness to do otherwise. Good luck.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:32 AM on December 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
You've had some wise practical counsel here, but I have to throw in a legal side. This is not legal advice, just some general ideas you could bring to an attorney in your jurisdiction. People often assume that a promise isn't enforceable if you don't have it in writing, but some oral agreements are enforceable. Depending on exactly what your oral agreement was with your old boss, exactly what papers you've signed, where you live, etc., it is theoretically possible that the new owners could be under an obligation to retain your brother as long as they retain you. In practice that might mean that if they want to fire him they have to fire you and pay your severance, and they'd maybe owe him some back pay.
Bear in mind that I may have just fed you a bunch of nonsense, and I'm not saying it's necessarily a good idea. The lawyers and career counselors here could each offer half a dozen valid objections, and most people I know are happier once they've given up the idea of filing suit. But you should know about it as an option -- especially if you end up negotiating a severance package, where even a potential claim might be a handy bargaining chip.
posted by Honorable John at 11:12 AM on December 12, 2011
Bear in mind that I may have just fed you a bunch of nonsense, and I'm not saying it's necessarily a good idea. The lawyers and career counselors here could each offer half a dozen valid objections, and most people I know are happier once they've given up the idea of filing suit. But you should know about it as an option -- especially if you end up negotiating a severance package, where even a potential claim might be a handy bargaining chip.
posted by Honorable John at 11:12 AM on December 12, 2011
What do you wnat to have happen? If you want them to re-hire your brother, then make a business case for why they should re-hire him. Imply that you might leave. It might work. If it doesn't, you suffer a loss of status. If it works, great. Are you actually willing to leave because of this?
posted by theora55 at 2:55 PM on December 12, 2011
posted by theora55 at 2:55 PM on December 12, 2011
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posted by sageleaf at 10:45 PM on December 11, 2011