How can I train my body to tolerate alcohol better?
December 9, 2011 1:45 PM Subscribe
I'm a 23 year old Asian-American male who sucks at drinking. I dislike alcohol, and can barely finish a beer, mostly due to hating the taste as well as my body's adverse reactions. How can I train my body to tolerate alcohol better? Could someone, for example, help me design a "training regime"?
I know it sounds lame, but here goes...
One shot of vodka is enough to make me have an "alcohol flush reaction", where my face turns red and my heart starts beating really fast, and I start getting a headache/nauseous, as well as tired/sleepy. Any more, and I will have a stomachache as well, usually puking a few hours later. I have a weak stomach in general (and have had an ulcer in the past).
Anyway, I will be working in Korea next year, where the drinking culture after work is intense... and almost a *must* to fit in. My options are using a medical excuse to get out of it, or maybe slowly building up my tolerance so that I can at least join in a little and not be out of it after the first 30 minutes.
I think the latter will be more beneficial to me, as long as it doesn't have health consequences... and would like advice!
A friend recommended drinking "a pint a day" of beer and going from there... would that work?
Some more about me:
5'8", 130lbs
Thank you!!
I know it sounds lame, but here goes...
One shot of vodka is enough to make me have an "alcohol flush reaction", where my face turns red and my heart starts beating really fast, and I start getting a headache/nauseous, as well as tired/sleepy. Any more, and I will have a stomachache as well, usually puking a few hours later. I have a weak stomach in general (and have had an ulcer in the past).
Anyway, I will be working in Korea next year, where the drinking culture after work is intense... and almost a *must* to fit in. My options are using a medical excuse to get out of it, or maybe slowly building up my tolerance so that I can at least join in a little and not be out of it after the first 30 minutes.
I think the latter will be more beneficial to me, as long as it doesn't have health consequences... and would like advice!
A friend recommended drinking "a pint a day" of beer and going from there... would that work?
Some more about me:
5'8", 130lbs
Thank you!!
Could you not just go along and order a tonic water? Nobody is going to pay very much attention to whether or not your glass has actual alcohol in it.
posted by something something at 1:52 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by something something at 1:52 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Previously on Asian flush.
No training plan but there might be some useful info there.
posted by 7life at 1:52 PM on December 9, 2011
No training plan but there might be some useful info there.
posted by 7life at 1:52 PM on December 9, 2011
As I understand it, the alcohol flush reaction is genetic, and isn't going to go away.
I also think, given your description, that becoming a hardcore drinker is not in the cards for you. Not that it's a good thing to aspire to anyway!
But you *should* be able to train yourself to have a couple of drinks without puking, yes. Start with a drink a night, like your friend suggests. Just at home, watching tv, have a beer or a single shot of vodka. Just one. After a week or two, try having two.
That's all. There are other ways to navigate "drinking culture", you know. Seltzer with lime look just like gin & tonic. Alternate drinks with water. You can carry around a beer and not drink it (even dumping some out in the bathroom when you have a chance.)
posted by kestrel251 at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I also think, given your description, that becoming a hardcore drinker is not in the cards for you. Not that it's a good thing to aspire to anyway!
But you *should* be able to train yourself to have a couple of drinks without puking, yes. Start with a drink a night, like your friend suggests. Just at home, watching tv, have a beer or a single shot of vodka. Just one. After a week or two, try having two.
That's all. There are other ways to navigate "drinking culture", you know. Seltzer with lime look just like gin & tonic. Alternate drinks with water. You can carry around a beer and not drink it (even dumping some out in the bathroom when you have a chance.)
posted by kestrel251 at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Okey. Just keep drinking. That's all you have to do. Every day, even when it hurts. Ask any alcoholic.
But as far as I've heard anecdotal is that you don't have to keep up with the koreans. Some kind of like to get the upper hand.
If you want to survive a drinking-party: Load up your body beforehand on food, water and FAT. Eat butter or drink cream (as it will delay the drunkness).
Go to town on a full stomach.
Set the alarm on your cell so that you leave the party at a reasonable time (say that you must call your family or similar).
I wish you luck.
posted by Rabarberofficer at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
But as far as I've heard anecdotal is that you don't have to keep up with the koreans. Some kind of like to get the upper hand.
If you want to survive a drinking-party: Load up your body beforehand on food, water and FAT. Eat butter or drink cream (as it will delay the drunkness).
Go to town on a full stomach.
Set the alarm on your cell so that you leave the party at a reasonable time (say that you must call your family or similar).
I wish you luck.
posted by Rabarberofficer at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Have you read the Wikipedia page about this? The flush reaction thing is a real medical condition caused by your body not breaking down one of the products of alcohol consumption, and having that build up in your body is probably not a good thing. From the article:
Unfortunately, acetaldehyde is a known carcinogen; recent research suggests that alcohol flush-afflicted individuals consuming alcohol continually may be at a higher risk for alcohol-related diseases, such as liver and esophageal cancers and digestive tract cancer.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately, acetaldehyde is a known carcinogen; recent research suggests that alcohol flush-afflicted individuals consuming alcohol continually may be at a higher risk for alcohol-related diseases, such as liver and esophageal cancers and digestive tract cancer.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
It sounds like you might have an alcohol intolerance.
I think it would be a good idea to talk to your doctor before trying to increase your tolerance by drinking regularly - if you really do have an intolerance, it seems to my-non-doctor-self like that could cause problems.
posted by insectosaurus at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
I think it would be a good idea to talk to your doctor before trying to increase your tolerance by drinking regularly - if you really do have an intolerance, it seems to my-non-doctor-self like that could cause problems.
posted by insectosaurus at 1:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Try browsing this forum.
Also, Pepcid AC on an empty stomach works for me on the very rare occasions that I drink.
posted by Mountain Goatse at 1:55 PM on December 9, 2011
Also, Pepcid AC on an empty stomach works for me on the very rare occasions that I drink.
posted by Mountain Goatse at 1:55 PM on December 9, 2011
As a 140-pound-ish Asian male, I feel your pain. I frequently refer to after-work socializing or client development events as "gratuitous liver exercise sessions". I know that I will never, ever, ever be able to match my Caucasian colleagues drink-for-drink, and I don't attempt to do so.
Things I keep in mind are that I try to have something solid in my stomach before the liver-exercise session. (Greasy food helps.) I'm also fine with going slowly and sipping my beer or wine.
The vibe I try to send to my colleagues/clients is that I'm happy to have a drink with you, I'm enjoying my gin-and-tonic right now, by all means let's order another round but I'm fine for now.
A few years ago I took a junior member of my team out for drinks, and it wound up being a big team thing (which, amusingly, I wound up paying for). Someone ordered a round of shots. I went along with the first round, but when the second round came up I politely declined (and continued nursing my gin-and-tonic). "I'm fine, thanks" is your friend!
I think tolerance building is a good idea, and part of that may be figuring out what (if anything) you like to drink. I'll also point out that with mixed drinks it's also possible to discretely ask the bartender to give you a light pour, or even to give you a club soda with lime or something similar.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 2:03 PM on December 9, 2011
Things I keep in mind are that I try to have something solid in my stomach before the liver-exercise session. (Greasy food helps.) I'm also fine with going slowly and sipping my beer or wine.
The vibe I try to send to my colleagues/clients is that I'm happy to have a drink with you, I'm enjoying my gin-and-tonic right now, by all means let's order another round but I'm fine for now.
A few years ago I took a junior member of my team out for drinks, and it wound up being a big team thing (which, amusingly, I wound up paying for). Someone ordered a round of shots. I went along with the first round, but when the second round came up I politely declined (and continued nursing my gin-and-tonic). "I'm fine, thanks" is your friend!
I think tolerance building is a good idea, and part of that may be figuring out what (if anything) you like to drink. I'll also point out that with mixed drinks it's also possible to discretely ask the bartender to give you a light pour, or even to give you a club soda with lime or something similar.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 2:03 PM on December 9, 2011
What? This is like people 50 years ago forcing themselves to learn how to smoke because of the insane pressure from advertising.
Look people in the eye and say, "I don't drink. Period."
posted by ryanpoly at 2:04 PM on December 9, 2011 [8 favorites]
Look people in the eye and say, "I don't drink. Period."
posted by ryanpoly at 2:04 PM on December 9, 2011 [8 favorites]
You get Asian flush. You are going to ASIA. This physical phenomenon will not be new to your colleagues. For sure, they will be intimately familiar with it.
You don't have to actually swallow each shot to partake in "drinking culture." Having the glass in your hand counts. Hanging out and laughing at jokes and telling fun stories and being game to stay out late and being a good sport about your boss stumbling and tripping counts. Being gracious and self-deprecating about being tired from the late hours the next day when everyone's hung over counts.
You don't have to train yourself to drink more, it's a dangerous thing to convince yourself of and it's bs. You have to train yourself to be comfortable around everyone else getting shitfaced.
posted by sestaaak at 2:08 PM on December 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
You don't have to actually swallow each shot to partake in "drinking culture." Having the glass in your hand counts. Hanging out and laughing at jokes and telling fun stories and being game to stay out late and being a good sport about your boss stumbling and tripping counts. Being gracious and self-deprecating about being tired from the late hours the next day when everyone's hung over counts.
You don't have to train yourself to drink more, it's a dangerous thing to convince yourself of and it's bs. You have to train yourself to be comfortable around everyone else getting shitfaced.
posted by sestaaak at 2:08 PM on December 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
If I may offer a different viewpoint... Peer pressure can be difficult to handle, especially at a young age (I'm more than twice your age). While I don't have the physiological reaction that you have, I chose, for different health reasons, to essentially not drink. I may have had an average of one sip of wine per year. Yes, I did get some weird looks and comments, depending on the crowds... but after a while, it stopped bothering me and I found that there more than enough great people that accepted me as I was when it came to drinking.
And you know what: for a while, I was the favourite friend of many when it came time to go to a party ... as the de facto, reliable, designated driver.
posted by aroberge at 2:09 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
And you know what: for a while, I was the favourite friend of many when it came time to go to a party ... as the de facto, reliable, designated driver.
posted by aroberge at 2:09 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
When I was trying to drink less when going out with friends, I ordered a lot of plain club sodas. Nobody would know the difference. You can also get energy drinks instead of drinks with alcohol in them. I also would sometimes order rum and cokes and tell the bartender to just put a splash of rum in them.
I would not intentionally try to build tolerance, that's a terrible idea for so many reasons.
posted by empath at 2:12 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I would not intentionally try to build tolerance, that's a terrible idea for so many reasons.
posted by empath at 2:12 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
OH, one more thing. Instead of drinking, BUY ROUNDS. If there's anything drinkers like more than getting other people drunk, it's getting drinks for free. They will love you for it and not care that you are not drinking.
posted by empath at 2:13 PM on December 9, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by empath at 2:13 PM on December 9, 2011 [14 favorites]
Ok well it is not quite clear from your question whether you have actually participated in Korean drinking culture or just read about it, but the after-work drinkers are ridiculously sloshed and red faced (I used to step over men in expensive suits laying on the sidewalk at 9am on my way to class).
Here's how to be just like them but somehow make it home: Korean bars always have food, order a ridiculous amount and eat, eat until you can't eat anymore. Then have a drink if it seems obligated. If you start to feel yourself getting flushed or tipsy, start throwing shots over your shoulder or pouring your mixed drinks back into the fruit soju pitcher when people aren't looking. If you can get away with getting a selzer feel free, but in my experience it was more "another round for everyone" kind of thing.
The pressure to drink in Korea is insane, and it may possibly hurt your work relationships to refuse to drink; however, it will hurt your liver even more (and apparently give you cancer). Please don't try to train your body to accept alcohol, it will only lead to pain and misery, especially for you since you already appear to be allergic.
posted by boobjob at 2:15 PM on December 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
Here's how to be just like them but somehow make it home: Korean bars always have food, order a ridiculous amount and eat, eat until you can't eat anymore. Then have a drink if it seems obligated. If you start to feel yourself getting flushed or tipsy, start throwing shots over your shoulder or pouring your mixed drinks back into the fruit soju pitcher when people aren't looking. If you can get away with getting a selzer feel free, but in my experience it was more "another round for everyone" kind of thing.
The pressure to drink in Korea is insane, and it may possibly hurt your work relationships to refuse to drink; however, it will hurt your liver even more (and apparently give you cancer). Please don't try to train your body to accept alcohol, it will only lead to pain and misery, especially for you since you already appear to be allergic.
posted by boobjob at 2:15 PM on December 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
The cause of Asian Flush is genetic, it has been shown that people with this genetic defect are predisposed to esophageal and GI cancers if they consume a lot of alcohol. Not being able to drink is a good thing in your case--listen to your body and don't try to teach it to like alcohol. As for the social aspects, you really don't need to join your friends drink for drink. Nurse a beer or two and after they've had their 6th, no one's keeping count.
posted by reformedjerk at 2:17 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by reformedjerk at 2:17 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
yeah, don't force yourself to drink heavily if you have this reaction. it basically, from what I recall, puts formaldehyde, which is a carcinogen, in your blood because your body does not metabolize alcohol quickly.
unlike many people in AA who claim to have an "allergy" to alcohol (there's no evidence for this, except as a metaphor and even that's shaky as say, people allergic to cats don't generally go around becoming cat ladies), the Asian flush is far closer to a real one.
posted by Maias at 2:44 PM on December 9, 2011
unlike many people in AA who claim to have an "allergy" to alcohol (there's no evidence for this, except as a metaphor and even that's shaky as say, people allergic to cats don't generally go around becoming cat ladies), the Asian flush is far closer to a real one.
posted by Maias at 2:44 PM on December 9, 2011
So don't drink. There are tons of great non-alcoholic beverages. Or, Bitters and soda.
posted by parmanparman at 2:45 PM on December 9, 2011
posted by parmanparman at 2:45 PM on December 9, 2011
Ethanol is broken down into acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. This is a fairly toxic and carcinogenic chemical, which in most people is broken down fairly quickly into acetic acid by an enzyme.
You have either one or two defective copies of the allele responsible for this enzyme, which is why you get the unpleasant effects-- it is not a reaction to alcohol, but the metabolic byproduct.
It has been observed by many people (myself included) who suffer from this that Pepcid AC removes or greatly mitigates the effect, but no one is sure why. A possible theory is that Pepcid AC inhibits the enzyme that breaks down ethanol, letting the defective allele "keep up" with alcohol metabolism. Pepcid AC doesn't work with everyone, but for those it does work with, the effect is quite noticeable.
People with this condition who drink are at an increased risk of esophageal cancer. It is not known whether Pepcid AC reduces this risk (it might, if it's reducing the amount of acetaldehyde in your system, but then again, it might be simply be making you oblivious to the warnings).
So you might try the Pepcid to see if it works with you (take about 45 min to an hour before drinking). If it does work, minimize your drinking anyway-- depending on how it works, it's either reducing your tolerance or masking your reaction to a poison, neither of which is great for your long term health.
posted by justkevin at 3:12 PM on December 9, 2011
You have either one or two defective copies of the allele responsible for this enzyme, which is why you get the unpleasant effects-- it is not a reaction to alcohol, but the metabolic byproduct.
It has been observed by many people (myself included) who suffer from this that Pepcid AC removes or greatly mitigates the effect, but no one is sure why. A possible theory is that Pepcid AC inhibits the enzyme that breaks down ethanol, letting the defective allele "keep up" with alcohol metabolism. Pepcid AC doesn't work with everyone, but for those it does work with, the effect is quite noticeable.
People with this condition who drink are at an increased risk of esophageal cancer. It is not known whether Pepcid AC reduces this risk (it might, if it's reducing the amount of acetaldehyde in your system, but then again, it might be simply be making you oblivious to the warnings).
So you might try the Pepcid to see if it works with you (take about 45 min to an hour before drinking). If it does work, minimize your drinking anyway-- depending on how it works, it's either reducing your tolerance or masking your reaction to a poison, neither of which is great for your long term health.
posted by justkevin at 3:12 PM on December 9, 2011
White girl here. I don't do shots because I almost always get sick; not sure if it's because I just have trouble monitoring my intake, but I prefer to sip on wine or beer anyway.
I got into wine by having a glass of red every day. I didn't like it at all at first but then it grew on me after having a glass each day for a month or so. I didn't like beer until I studied abroad in Germany, then when I got back I started trying a lot of different beers and developed a taste for them. So having some beer everyday might help you, but you probably don't need to have a full pint unless you want it.
I also never drink on an empty stomach. Either eat something before you go or order a little something with your drinks.
So I would first try eating with your drinks, but if it is a medical problem I would just tell people that you have a medical problem and try not to worry about it.
posted by fromageball at 3:14 PM on December 9, 2011
I got into wine by having a glass of red every day. I didn't like it at all at first but then it grew on me after having a glass each day for a month or so. I didn't like beer until I studied abroad in Germany, then when I got back I started trying a lot of different beers and developed a taste for them. So having some beer everyday might help you, but you probably don't need to have a full pint unless you want it.
I also never drink on an empty stomach. Either eat something before you go or order a little something with your drinks.
So I would first try eating with your drinks, but if it is a medical problem I would just tell people that you have a medical problem and try not to worry about it.
posted by fromageball at 3:14 PM on December 9, 2011
As nearly everyone else has stated, don't drink is the safest answer. Especially in the case of alcohol flush reaction, where it sounds like there are possible carcinogenic effects from drinking too much. Don't worry about what people think. Tell them you don't like the flavor, and if they brush that off bring up the stronger, "it makes me sick," explanation.
But if you're not willing to take that advice, I would recommend reading up on what sort of beers that are available wherever drinking is to done that have the lowest level of alcohol. See if you can find a place that sells Korean beers here in the States and try them out a little at a time. Look to see if there's a particular flavor you like. Taste beyond the initial bitter flavor and see if you like any of the other flavors there. That'll help you address the flavor dislike. There can be a lot going on once you get outside the world of pale lagers (not that I'm against lagers).
As for tolerance... maybe drink a beer once a week for a month and see if you feel any less sick from it. Take a couple of hours to finish one. If you're still feeling badly after a month, it's probably best to abandon the idea of building tolerance. If you can handle that much, it's ultimately your decision how you want to handle health vs. social acceptance and where you want to go in your drinking habits there. As health is a question even for those without the flush reaction to alcohol, never feel obligated to drink. It's your own body.
posted by Mister Cheese at 3:27 PM on December 9, 2011
But if you're not willing to take that advice, I would recommend reading up on what sort of beers that are available wherever drinking is to done that have the lowest level of alcohol. See if you can find a place that sells Korean beers here in the States and try them out a little at a time. Look to see if there's a particular flavor you like. Taste beyond the initial bitter flavor and see if you like any of the other flavors there. That'll help you address the flavor dislike. There can be a lot going on once you get outside the world of pale lagers (not that I'm against lagers).
As for tolerance... maybe drink a beer once a week for a month and see if you feel any less sick from it. Take a couple of hours to finish one. If you're still feeling badly after a month, it's probably best to abandon the idea of building tolerance. If you can handle that much, it's ultimately your decision how you want to handle health vs. social acceptance and where you want to go in your drinking habits there. As health is a question even for those without the flush reaction to alcohol, never feel obligated to drink. It's your own body.
posted by Mister Cheese at 3:27 PM on December 9, 2011
If you're going to a bar, then most people's advice applies very well, but drinking culture in Korea can be pretty intense, and most of your experience will probably involve sitting down, eating lots of food, and having lots of shots of soju, and some beer.
Asian flush: Well, everyone has it to some degree; it's not really a source of embarrassment or anything new. Don't worry about this.
Drinking/pouring etiquette: there's a bit of ritual in who pours for whom - you don't pour your own drink, you hold your hand in such-and-such a way when you pour for someone older, or receive a shot of soju from someone. I mention this because 1) people take shots at the same time, but sometimes people only drink half of the glass, and 2) people also don't like to pour into a half-full glass, so the etiquette is to chug the partially-full glass down your throat first before you receive a glass. So plan accordingly.
Food: As someone mentioned above, eat a lot of food beforehand, especially fatty/creamy food (which won't be that often though).
Tolerance/alcohol: You'll mostly be drinking shots of soju. If you can drink three or four shots (2/3ish of a 300ml bottle of soju) you'll be on par with most people. You shouldn't try to achieve this, or train yourself -- I'm just putting this out there so you have a good measure about how much vague expectation the table might have.
Of course, all of the cultural norms/practices are always very loose, depending on who you're drinking with and how well you know them. I'd say: play up the Korean-American angle, be friendly-clueless, cheerfully naive about these things, and have them see you as "oh, that Korean-American dude who can't really drink" rather than "the Korean dude from the US who doesn't like to drink with us".
posted by suedehead at 3:46 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Asian flush: Well, everyone has it to some degree; it's not really a source of embarrassment or anything new. Don't worry about this.
Drinking/pouring etiquette: there's a bit of ritual in who pours for whom - you don't pour your own drink, you hold your hand in such-and-such a way when you pour for someone older, or receive a shot of soju from someone. I mention this because 1) people take shots at the same time, but sometimes people only drink half of the glass, and 2) people also don't like to pour into a half-full glass, so the etiquette is to chug the partially-full glass down your throat first before you receive a glass. So plan accordingly.
Food: As someone mentioned above, eat a lot of food beforehand, especially fatty/creamy food (which won't be that often though).
Tolerance/alcohol: You'll mostly be drinking shots of soju. If you can drink three or four shots (2/3ish of a 300ml bottle of soju) you'll be on par with most people. You shouldn't try to achieve this, or train yourself -- I'm just putting this out there so you have a good measure about how much vague expectation the table might have.
Of course, all of the cultural norms/practices are always very loose, depending on who you're drinking with and how well you know them. I'd say: play up the Korean-American angle, be friendly-clueless, cheerfully naive about these things, and have them see you as "oh, that Korean-American dude who can't really drink" rather than "the Korean dude from the US who doesn't like to drink with us".
posted by suedehead at 3:46 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
OH, one more thing. Instead of drinking, BUY ROUNDS. If there's anything drinkers like more than getting other people drunk, it's getting drinks for free. They will love you for it and not care that you are not drinking. posted by empath
I think that a lot of the harassment handed out to non-drinkers stems from embarrassment or fear that the non-drinker is judging the drinkers. Buying them a round is an elegant response, because you're telling them that you don't mind that they drink, in fact you think they're great fun.
posted by slmorri at 3:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think that a lot of the harassment handed out to non-drinkers stems from embarrassment or fear that the non-drinker is judging the drinkers. Buying them a round is an elegant response, because you're telling them that you don't mind that they drink, in fact you think they're great fun.
posted by slmorri at 3:53 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
The pressure for me on the business side is like when you're out at dinner, and the time for dessert comes, and people are afraid of being the only (or first) one to order dessert. Even though you may honestly not want dessert, you are nervous that you client/boss/whatever really DOES want that dessert, and your refusal to have dessert prevents him from ordering.
So the key is enabling others in your party to have the fun/drink they want. This falls through slightly when the intended "fun" is that everyone drinks till shitfaced.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 4:06 PM on December 9, 2011
So the key is enabling others in your party to have the fun/drink they want. This falls through slightly when the intended "fun" is that everyone drinks till shitfaced.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 4:06 PM on December 9, 2011
Grow a pair and say "no." You can't drink. If they're such neanderthals that they can't accept this, then GET ANOTHER FUCKING JOB.
Recommending you eat a tonne is irresponsible and inconsiderate and DANGEROUS advice. You have an alcohol intolerance and all the bibimbap in the world isn't going to make it go away. Stand your ground. Quit this damn job if you have to.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 4:31 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Recommending you eat a tonne is irresponsible and inconsiderate and DANGEROUS advice. You have an alcohol intolerance and all the bibimbap in the world isn't going to make it go away. Stand your ground. Quit this damn job if you have to.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 4:31 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I was also going to be in the "why bother" camp, as there's nothing wrong with not drinking. However, I've also heard tell of the competitive nature of drinking (anecdotal experience was China and Japan, but assuming a similarity in Korea) and this seems like a complete other beast from the general social pressure one gets in the US to join in. If it is indeed the sort of thing that might be detrimental to your career by not participating -- and in the stories I've heard it can be taken to an almost gradeschool playground bullying level by some people, so this may well be the case -- building up a minimal tolerance while honing your obfuscation techniques might be the best bet.
Getting yourself to the point where you can handle a shot, maybe two, in a night, would be helpful and hopefully not so much alcohol that it becomes detrimental to your health. Don't even start with a single shot -- try a quarter shot first, and very slowly ramp up your intake to the point where you can take one at a time. Take months to get there if you have to. The unfortunate part in this is that you really can't take much time off -- a couple days, perhaps -- before the cumulative effects start to wear off, so it requires a level of commitment.
The second skill-set will probably be even more useful -- devise ways to make it seem like you're drinking more than you are. LOVE the suggestion of throwing the shots over your shoulder, which would probably be pretty effective if everyone's taking them at the same time. What about (it sounds gross, but bear with me) having a glass of something else in front of you, taking the shot but not swallowing, then pretending to drink from the other glass and spitting the booze into the glass? Even something like going to the toilet when rounds are being poured could conceivably get you out of one or two a night, or wandering off to "make a call" or somesuch with drink in hand and pouring into a nearby plant? As the night wears on it might become easier if more of your colleagues get drunk enough to not notice/pay attention.
Having several clubs in your bag is probably a good way to handle this, so devising ways of explaining away your non-drinking, getting tolerant enough to be able to handle a bit of drinking regularly, and finding devious ways of making it look like you're drinking when you're not might be enough for you to survive whilst keeping your stomach and career intact.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 4:56 PM on December 9, 2011
Getting yourself to the point where you can handle a shot, maybe two, in a night, would be helpful and hopefully not so much alcohol that it becomes detrimental to your health. Don't even start with a single shot -- try a quarter shot first, and very slowly ramp up your intake to the point where you can take one at a time. Take months to get there if you have to. The unfortunate part in this is that you really can't take much time off -- a couple days, perhaps -- before the cumulative effects start to wear off, so it requires a level of commitment.
The second skill-set will probably be even more useful -- devise ways to make it seem like you're drinking more than you are. LOVE the suggestion of throwing the shots over your shoulder, which would probably be pretty effective if everyone's taking them at the same time. What about (it sounds gross, but bear with me) having a glass of something else in front of you, taking the shot but not swallowing, then pretending to drink from the other glass and spitting the booze into the glass? Even something like going to the toilet when rounds are being poured could conceivably get you out of one or two a night, or wandering off to "make a call" or somesuch with drink in hand and pouring into a nearby plant? As the night wears on it might become easier if more of your colleagues get drunk enough to not notice/pay attention.
Having several clubs in your bag is probably a good way to handle this, so devising ways of explaining away your non-drinking, getting tolerant enough to be able to handle a bit of drinking regularly, and finding devious ways of making it look like you're drinking when you're not might be enough for you to survive whilst keeping your stomach and career intact.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 4:56 PM on December 9, 2011
Why are you sooo eager to drink? Stop going under from peer pressure and learn to stand up for youself, that will help you more than learning how to do things your body just says no to.
posted by pakora1 at 4:56 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by pakora1 at 4:56 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Saying no to all alcohol is akin to social suicide in Korea, especially in a business setting but, there are workarounds for it.
I got smashed the first time I went out with some university students who wanted to introduce me to soju, and I noticed the other women held their liquor quite well. I asked one what her secret was, and she coyly admitted to topping up her soju glass with water or cider every chance she got.
The older or more powerful people in the group tend to think it's their job to ensure everyone is having fun (AKA getting as drunk as they are). Try to keep them from noticing that you're drinking at a slower pace if you can.
If all else fails, you might try persuading people to go to a noraebong or karaoke room. They're wildly popular, and offer lots of distractions so people won't notice that your glass hasn't been filled in a while.
posted by peppermind at 4:58 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I got smashed the first time I went out with some university students who wanted to introduce me to soju, and I noticed the other women held their liquor quite well. I asked one what her secret was, and she coyly admitted to topping up her soju glass with water or cider every chance she got.
The older or more powerful people in the group tend to think it's their job to ensure everyone is having fun (AKA getting as drunk as they are). Try to keep them from noticing that you're drinking at a slower pace if you can.
If all else fails, you might try persuading people to go to a noraebong or karaoke room. They're wildly popular, and offer lots of distractions so people won't notice that your glass hasn't been filled in a while.
posted by peppermind at 4:58 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know how it is these days, but when I was working in Korea, going out to drinks was an important part of fitting in. Worse yet, not fitting in was often career limiting. Hopefully it has changed since then somewhat and you can take the majority of the advice others have provided - the fact that smoking has decreased dramatically since I worked there is room for hope. However, when you go out, share in the first drink, and then go at your own pace. I've seen plenty of Koreans politely refuse refills without it seeming to be that big of a deal.
Somethings that are generally OK in the US, but tend to not go over too well in Korea IME.
- Buying an alternate non-alcoholic drink: It sets you apart from the team and seems to send a "your drink isn't good enough for me".
- A blunt or firm "No": Although fine in American culture, it is off-putting to most Koreans.
To extricate yourself, which can be a chore as well, having family to attend to can be a handy excuse. Even if you don't have family in Korea, you can excuse yourself to contact family back in the US. Something like, "it's 10am back home, I have to call my mom so she doesn't worry." should work. There maybe comments like - "What? you still have to call home everyday?" But family is a big part of Korean culture, so a shrug and a "what can I do?" smile will usually get you off. Note that using your wife (or girlfriend) rather than your mom may not be as effective. Especially from male colleagues that have less than stellar relationships with their wives/girlfriends - it's many a theme to popular shows that the working man is going out drinking with coworkers to avoid his spouse.
Good luck!
posted by forforf at 5:13 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Somethings that are generally OK in the US, but tend to not go over too well in Korea IME.
- Buying an alternate non-alcoholic drink: It sets you apart from the team and seems to send a "your drink isn't good enough for me".
- A blunt or firm "No": Although fine in American culture, it is off-putting to most Koreans.
To extricate yourself, which can be a chore as well, having family to attend to can be a handy excuse. Even if you don't have family in Korea, you can excuse yourself to contact family back in the US. Something like, "it's 10am back home, I have to call my mom so she doesn't worry." should work. There maybe comments like - "What? you still have to call home everyday?" But family is a big part of Korean culture, so a shrug and a "what can I do?" smile will usually get you off. Note that using your wife (or girlfriend) rather than your mom may not be as effective. Especially from male colleagues that have less than stellar relationships with their wives/girlfriends - it's many a theme to popular shows that the working man is going out drinking with coworkers to avoid his spouse.
Good luck!
posted by forforf at 5:13 PM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm gonna go along with all the other folks who are saying, why bother? There's no requirement that you DO drink --- "you're over 21, therefore you MUST drink alcohol." (Personally, I don't drink because I too dislike the taste, plus I've never really understood the fun of getting drunk. YMMV.)
Part of being an adult is being mature enough to make your own choices, rather than having other people make them for you: go ahead and make the choice not to drink.
posted by easily confused at 5:18 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Part of being an adult is being mature enough to make your own choices, rather than having other people make them for you: go ahead and make the choice not to drink.
posted by easily confused at 5:18 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know anything about the culture there, or how bad it would be, but I've worked in places where the drinking culture was pretty pervasive and there was a lot of pressure to drink, and there were still some that didn't. I would strongly consider this because, my brother is not exactly allergic to alcohol but doesn't tolerate it well - in much of a similar way as you. No amount of trying to "train" his body into accepting alcohol has changed this.
posted by sm1tten at 5:51 PM on December 9, 2011
posted by sm1tten at 5:51 PM on December 9, 2011
You are allergic. My partner is the same (she happens to be Asian as well, although none of her family share this allergy). There's no way around this as far as I know.
posted by moorooka at 5:58 PM on December 9, 2011
posted by moorooka at 5:58 PM on December 9, 2011
I am you 16 years in the future. You are me 16 years ago. Some pro tips coming your way:
1) Don't listen to anyone on here who clearly doesn't get it, and never will. You know who they are.
2) Listen to all the peeps who know what they're talking about, have been there, done that, are offering practical things.
3) It comes with age. Just accept that. At a certain point, one of few things will happen:
- You will be known as "that guy that passes out after the first drink", and people will be a lot more forgiving, or turn it into a jokey situation. This is not a bad thing, believe me. You'll even be able to guilt-trip people into S'ingTFU.
- You WILL, at a certain point, just not give a shit anymore, and realize, hey, this is crap tons of fun! Why the fuck was I so worried??? Get red, feel flushed, pass out, feel sick.. Who cares? Welcome to living.
- Following that, your tolerance will start to vary. On some nights, you will still pass out after the first drink. Hell, I still do. On other nights, suddenly, you'll hit the fabled "drinker's high" and it'll be like downing water. It depends on a variety of things, including your physical state, what you had for dinner, and, duh, most importantly, what you're drinking. Learn as early as you can what can keep you going (have you tried Jack & Cokes?) and what DOES NOT WORK (lay off tequila until you're at least 28-29).
Main point is, this is just the first time you've actually asked the question, but the issue will stay with you for... a long time. Like I said, welcome to 16 years in the future. Take the long view. You may as well be asking about your having your first child, or buying your first house. Seeing the other side will take you a while; don't sweat it.
And, yeah, don't worry about getting red, getting sick, passing out on the streets in Korea. Everybody does it.
One more pro-tip: go clubbing. A lot. Hongdae is ground zero for this. You'll sweat all the alcohol out as you drink. Then, the next day, go to a mok-yok-tang (public bath, like Spa Castle in Flushing, NYC). Again, sweat it all out. Then do it all over again.
posted by war wrath of wraith at 7:56 PM on December 9, 2011
1) Don't listen to anyone on here who clearly doesn't get it, and never will. You know who they are.
2) Listen to all the peeps who know what they're talking about, have been there, done that, are offering practical things.
3) It comes with age. Just accept that. At a certain point, one of few things will happen:
- You will be known as "that guy that passes out after the first drink", and people will be a lot more forgiving, or turn it into a jokey situation. This is not a bad thing, believe me. You'll even be able to guilt-trip people into S'ingTFU.
- You WILL, at a certain point, just not give a shit anymore, and realize, hey, this is crap tons of fun! Why the fuck was I so worried??? Get red, feel flushed, pass out, feel sick.. Who cares? Welcome to living.
- Following that, your tolerance will start to vary. On some nights, you will still pass out after the first drink. Hell, I still do. On other nights, suddenly, you'll hit the fabled "drinker's high" and it'll be like downing water. It depends on a variety of things, including your physical state, what you had for dinner, and, duh, most importantly, what you're drinking. Learn as early as you can what can keep you going (have you tried Jack & Cokes?) and what DOES NOT WORK (lay off tequila until you're at least 28-29).
Main point is, this is just the first time you've actually asked the question, but the issue will stay with you for... a long time. Like I said, welcome to 16 years in the future. Take the long view. You may as well be asking about your having your first child, or buying your first house. Seeing the other side will take you a while; don't sweat it.
And, yeah, don't worry about getting red, getting sick, passing out on the streets in Korea. Everybody does it.
One more pro-tip: go clubbing. A lot. Hongdae is ground zero for this. You'll sweat all the alcohol out as you drink. Then, the next day, go to a mok-yok-tang (public bath, like Spa Castle in Flushing, NYC). Again, sweat it all out. Then do it all over again.
posted by war wrath of wraith at 7:56 PM on December 9, 2011
can you slowly build up your alcohol tolerance? get some vodka, get some cranberry juice, and just mix to a level that you can deal with. then over time ramp it up.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:39 PM on December 9, 2011
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:39 PM on December 9, 2011
Mod note: A couple of comments deleted. Hey, guys: you need to be answering the question, not freaking out about another person's answer. Give your good alternative advice, yes, please. Yelling at someone else in the thread, no.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:11 AM on December 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:11 AM on December 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
If your goal is to build tolerance, then your plan to have a pint a day or some other drink daily will work. You may never get up to a level beyond a few drinks, but you will learn how to deal with asian flush or whatever it is you get. I have never been to Korea, but I have been involved with friends that lived a hhigh pressure drinking culture. I think even if you do just pass out after one drink or turn red and feel sick, you will get props from them for trying.
Good luck.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:28 AM on December 10, 2011
Good luck.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:28 AM on December 10, 2011
One more pro-tip: go clubbing. A lot. Hongdae is ground zero for this. You'll sweat all the alcohol out as you drink. Then, the next day, go to a mok-yok-tang (public bath, like Spa Castle in Flushing, NYC). Again, sweat it all out. Then do it all over again.
Maybe don't do this without drinking a lot of water first. Alcohol is going to dehydrate you a lot as it is. You can't "sweat out" alcohol, what you're sweating out is a mostly water. This isn't a great idea and can possibly be dangerous.
posted by reformedjerk at 9:20 AM on December 10, 2011
Maybe don't do this without drinking a lot of water first. Alcohol is going to dehydrate you a lot as it is. You can't "sweat out" alcohol, what you're sweating out is a mostly water. This isn't a great idea and can possibly be dangerous.
posted by reformedjerk at 9:20 AM on December 10, 2011
I'd just tell them "I'm allergic to alcohol." Come on, you're fine with the cancer thing? Really? Drink Cokes and don't act uptight around the people who are tipsy.
posted by wintersweet at 2:49 PM on December 10, 2011
posted by wintersweet at 2:49 PM on December 10, 2011
P. S. Advice: How To Avoid Getting Forced To Drink, Without Becoming a Social Pariah With Your Korean Friends.
posted by wintersweet at 2:55 PM on December 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by wintersweet at 2:55 PM on December 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm a round-eye, but I lived in rural Korea for three years. I can't help you with building tolerance, but I can give you this tip. Korean culture is to never let your guest have an empty glass. As long as your glass is still at least half full of soju/Hite, it won't get refilled. When someone says "tipshida!" (bottoms up!) just take a sip. You don't have to shoot the whole thing.
A lot of the people answering this question have no idea HOW ESSENTIAL drinking is to Korean culture, especially business culture. "Just don't drink" is not an acceptable answer. "Saying no to all alcohol is akin to social suicide in Korea" is right on the mark.
Lucky for you there are a lot of resources online. Just google "Korea drinking etiquette."
posted by Brittanie at 3:50 PM on December 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
A lot of the people answering this question have no idea HOW ESSENTIAL drinking is to Korean culture, especially business culture. "Just don't drink" is not an acceptable answer. "Saying no to all alcohol is akin to social suicide in Korea" is right on the mark.
Lucky for you there are a lot of resources online. Just google "Korea drinking etiquette."
posted by Brittanie at 3:50 PM on December 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you look at the comments in the "How to Avoid..." post, you'll find that many people claim the culture is changing very rapidly and isn't as strict on this point as it once was. I have no opinion/firsthand experience on the matter.
posted by wintersweet at 5:16 PM on December 10, 2011
posted by wintersweet at 5:16 PM on December 10, 2011
Response by poster: Hey guys, thanks for all the responses- and special thanks to the authors with insights on Korean after-work drinking culture! The amount of "resist peer pressure" posts are a testament to the quality of the answers. I agree with the principle, and it's what I've been doing all along.
That said, I always assumed my low tolerance was the result of never drinking, genetics (my parents both get flushed) and low body mass- hence the training thing. Though judging from some of the responses perhaps it's something more serious and permanent which can't be changed... The cancer risk is slightly worrying, but I'm not planning on drinking a lot regardless.
I think I will start with a little beer every day and see if anything changes... and I'll work on fine-tuning my "gracefully weaseling my way out of drinking" etiquette (thanks again for all the tips!).
posted by Struan at 7:59 PM on December 11, 2011
That said, I always assumed my low tolerance was the result of never drinking, genetics (my parents both get flushed) and low body mass- hence the training thing. Though judging from some of the responses perhaps it's something more serious and permanent which can't be changed... The cancer risk is slightly worrying, but I'm not planning on drinking a lot regardless.
I think I will start with a little beer every day and see if anything changes... and I'll work on fine-tuning my "gracefully weaseling my way out of drinking" etiquette (thanks again for all the tips!).
posted by Struan at 7:59 PM on December 11, 2011
Here's what you will miss by totally abstaining from alcohol:
**The oft-repeated story about how you puked at your best friend's wedding;
**The memory of that wonderful -- could have been signficant -- person who was mesmerized by you until you started at fight;
**The many, many times you acted like a fool and then had to claim that you couldn't remember;
**The bosses who know who find you totally untrustworthy because someone told them you drink too much;
**The acquaintances who only remember you as a drunken jerk;
**And the police, oh, wow ... that time with the police.
**Oh, yeah. The money. The exorbitant tabs, the ridiculous tips. The wasted money.
posted by ryanpoly at 11:46 AM on December 14, 2011
**The oft-repeated story about how you puked at your best friend's wedding;
**The memory of that wonderful -- could have been signficant -- person who was mesmerized by you until you started at fight;
**The many, many times you acted like a fool and then had to claim that you couldn't remember;
**The bosses who know who find you totally untrustworthy because someone told them you drink too much;
**The acquaintances who only remember you as a drunken jerk;
**And the police, oh, wow ... that time with the police.
**Oh, yeah. The money. The exorbitant tabs, the ridiculous tips. The wasted money.
posted by ryanpoly at 11:46 AM on December 14, 2011
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That said: if you just want to be able to handle a drink or two, make sure you don't do it on an empty stomach (ever) and drink water in between. Nurse that one drink as long as you can.
(For what it's worth: when I was 20 and in the military, I tried making myself handle a drink or two just so I could fit in. It was literally the only way I could interact with my shipmates outside of work. I very quickly decided that I'd rather be alone, because fuck that noise. I really hope that you find a better way, but at some point you have to decide whether you and your environment are right for one another.)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:51 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]