That table is free - why can't we have it?
December 8, 2011 6:38 PM Subscribe
Why couldn't we sit at that table in that restaurant?
About a month ago, I went to a restaurant with my family of 4. It's well known for its beer list but has a full dinner menu as well as a kids menu. We arrived super early and only a few of the tables inside were taken. I requested a certain table; it was denied us. The host told us that it messed up the rotation of the waiters or something. I know this is an issue but I've never worked in a restaurant and don't understand the problem fully. Can someone explain why this is an issue? Further, should it have been denied us? On occasion I have requested a particular table at restaurants and it has seemed as though, despite perhaps messing something up for the waiters, the place was willing to accommodate my request. I'm not hoppin' mad or anything - but it does seem like a bad policy for the restaurant. It was a bit of an uncomfortable moment and sorta soured me on the place.
About a month ago, I went to a restaurant with my family of 4. It's well known for its beer list but has a full dinner menu as well as a kids menu. We arrived super early and only a few of the tables inside were taken. I requested a certain table; it was denied us. The host told us that it messed up the rotation of the waiters or something. I know this is an issue but I've never worked in a restaurant and don't understand the problem fully. Can someone explain why this is an issue? Further, should it have been denied us? On occasion I have requested a particular table at restaurants and it has seemed as though, despite perhaps messing something up for the waiters, the place was willing to accommodate my request. I'm not hoppin' mad or anything - but it does seem like a bad policy for the restaurant. It was a bit of an uncomfortable moment and sorta soured me on the place.
This just happened to me this week and I asked about it more in-depth. Basically let's say there are twelve tables at a restaurant and three servers working. Each server gets four tables and they're usually more or less near each other. If the place has a host, part of the host's job is to make sure that the servers' load is more or less balanced. If two servers already had two full tables and another server had no full tables, maybe a solo diner or two, they'd try to put you in the third server's section. And add to this when the diners came in, you'd want one set getting entrees while another set was finishing up and another set getting seated. So maybe they'd sat two couples in your desired table's section just before you got there? I don't know any more of the math in terms of why they'd make certain choices and most mid-range restaurants might try to steer you away from a table but not deny you one altogether, a lot of this has to do with their balance between service and mechanics. Here's an explanation from someone who worked as a server.
posted by jessamyn at 6:47 PM on December 8, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 6:47 PM on December 8, 2011 [8 favorites]
each server usually has a section with a certain number of tables in it. Hosts will rotate through sections so that no one gets slammed or totally deserted at any given point, and that each server gets more or less the same number of covers over the course of a night.
That said, usually it's not a problem to deviate from the rotation; you'd just tell the person who you technically skipped and he or she'd work it out with the waiter whose section the odd table was in. Possible explanations:
1) the host was new/being trained/training someone and wanted to do things by the book
2) it's a corporate restaurant that has strict policies about seat rotation
3) there was some FOH oddness happening, like someone didn't show and people were stretched thin, or someone was just cut, or that section was just about to be closed for cleaning, or some other situation that made it complicated or fussy to put you there
4) the server in that section is a fire breathing crazy person who will yell at the host later
Who knows?
posted by peachfuzz at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
That said, usually it's not a problem to deviate from the rotation; you'd just tell the person who you technically skipped and he or she'd work it out with the waiter whose section the odd table was in. Possible explanations:
1) the host was new/being trained/training someone and wanted to do things by the book
2) it's a corporate restaurant that has strict policies about seat rotation
3) there was some FOH oddness happening, like someone didn't show and people were stretched thin, or someone was just cut, or that section was just about to be closed for cleaning, or some other situation that made it complicated or fussy to put you there
4) the server in that section is a fire breathing crazy person who will yell at the host later
Who knows?
posted by peachfuzz at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Why this is an issue: servers have sections, which are blocks of tables in the restaurant; the host tries to seat each arriving party in the next waiter's section, in rotation. This allows smoother service for all the parties- this way, no one waiter is trying to read specials and get beverages for four tables at once, and then later trying to get entrees out to four tables at once. Also, in restaurants that don't tip pool, it allows each waiter an equal shot at earning tips. Reservations already on the books add further complexity to this seating process.
That said, I don't think it was very professional or accommodating of the host to deny your request- the rotation can easily be worked around and picked back up, sections can be broken up and re-assigned. Maybe that restaurant reserves special treatment for extremely regular customers or big spenders. Or maybe he/she was new, or having a bad night, or just didn't care about hospitality. If you want to keep going back to the restaurant, I vote you find out what the number is of the table that you like and keep asking for it.
posted by heyheylanagirl at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2011
That said, I don't think it was very professional or accommodating of the host to deny your request- the rotation can easily be worked around and picked back up, sections can be broken up and re-assigned. Maybe that restaurant reserves special treatment for extremely regular customers or big spenders. Or maybe he/she was new, or having a bad night, or just didn't care about hospitality. If you want to keep going back to the restaurant, I vote you find out what the number is of the table that you like and keep asking for it.
posted by heyheylanagirl at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2011
At your average casual dining place, the seating system will work like this: the restaurant's seating will be divided up into sections (say, 1 through 5), where each section is a compact area that a single waiter can handle. If there are, say, five waiters and five sections, then customers will be sat one section at a time, so that any given waiter will not get unusually long dry spells or unexpected rushes.
When I waited tables, we almost always let customers request a different section than the one that was up next. Sometimes this meant that a water got "double sat," but we would just skip them during the next round. There were always exceptions, though. For example, sometimes a customer will want to sit in a section despite the fact that its waiter was just double sat and is completely swamped, or sometimes a waiter will be skipped over a few times due to having an unfortunate section.
Or, on preview, what jessamyn said. I'll say as a former waiter that I was always very appreciative of customers willing to sit where they were assigned, and very irritated by those rare few who sat wherever the hell they wanted, without seeing a hostess first.
posted by farishta at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
When I waited tables, we almost always let customers request a different section than the one that was up next. Sometimes this meant that a water got "double sat," but we would just skip them during the next round. There were always exceptions, though. For example, sometimes a customer will want to sit in a section despite the fact that its waiter was just double sat and is completely swamped, or sometimes a waiter will be skipped over a few times due to having an unfortunate section.
Or, on preview, what jessamyn said. I'll say as a former waiter that I was always very appreciative of customers willing to sit where they were assigned, and very irritated by those rare few who sat wherever the hell they wanted, without seeing a hostess first.
posted by farishta at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's a bit odd that the host couldn't just tell the server that was waiting for a table that he'd take over a table in the other server's section. Perhaps the host was a little inexperienced.
posted by sunnychef88 at 6:52 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by sunnychef88 at 6:52 PM on December 8, 2011
A server has a certain number of tables they are responsible for in the restaurant, usually in a defined space within the restaurant. The ideal situation is for the host to seat the first party in server 1's section, the next party in server 2's section, etc. While the host is seating the parties in the other sections of the restaurant, server 1 has a chance to take the first party's drink order and read them the specials. By the time the host has seated all the other sections of the restaurant and seats another party in server 1's section, the drinks are being delivered and the server can take the second party's drink order and the first party's food order. If the host is doing their job, the server will not have more than one table at the same stage of their meal. If parties are seated at the same time, it makes the server's job harder, as they must rush to bring multiple parties' food out at the same time, which can result in cold food and poor tips.
There is a real rhythm to waiting tables, and "double seating" a server can really screw up their night.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:53 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
There is a real rhythm to waiting tables, and "double seating" a server can really screw up their night.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:53 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's a bit odd that the host couldn't just tell the server that was waiting for a table that he'd take over a table in the other server's section. Perhaps the host was a little inexperienced.
I usually did this at our restaurant, but there are so many other possibilities. Sometimes waiters don't like doing this (or don't like having it done in their section); sometimes certain sections are just awful to combine (e.g. due to blind spots or distance); another possibility is that the table in question was part of a section that was shut down, to be opened up later in the night, and that putting customers there would screw up whoever was going to inherit the section next.
Restaurants are idiosyncratic creatures, let me tell you.
posted by farishta at 6:58 PM on December 8, 2011
I usually did this at our restaurant, but there are so many other possibilities. Sometimes waiters don't like doing this (or don't like having it done in their section); sometimes certain sections are just awful to combine (e.g. due to blind spots or distance); another possibility is that the table in question was part of a section that was shut down, to be opened up later in the night, and that putting customers there would screw up whoever was going to inherit the section next.
Restaurants are idiosyncratic creatures, let me tell you.
posted by farishta at 6:58 PM on December 8, 2011
I think others have answered the "how it works" part of this. It is the hostess' job to keep to the rotation, but normally they'll just accommodate the request and seat the next person in the section of the one who got skipped. There have been times I was helping the hostess (as a server) and in the case of a relatively empty restaurant, it's hard to not accommodate the request even though it is annoying to the waitstaff. When it's a bit busier, it's easier (my go-to would be to say that a table was reserved). As it is, with a specific table request, it is possible that it is reserved for a larger party. Reserved tables don't get sat for a specific period before the reservation is due, in case the earlier party takes a long time and isn't gone by the time the reservation comes in.
Now, for the "why this is an annoying thing for a customer to do:" Tables are assigned on a rotation to try to keep each server getting the same number of guests and a balance. This getting messed up early (say a few tables come in and all end up requesting tables in one person's section) throws things off for the rest of the night. At best, it puts other servers in a bad mood (only ONE person is making money, everyone else is doing nothing). At worst, it makes it so everyone has periods of being absolutely swamped, then having nothing to do, alternately, whereas if the rotation was stuck to, a balance through the night would have been maintained.
This particular hostess probably had a problem that she was trying to keep from happening again -- either a particularly nasty server (because yes, hostesses do get nastiness from servers for things they can't prevent) or she had been reprimanded for not following the rotation and weeding someone (weeding meaning to make them busy beyond their ability to smoothly handle it). It could be that this place was empty when you got there, but fills up quickly at a certain time and they were trying to keep things balanced for that. So she definitely didn't handle your request in the smoothest way, but she likely had a good reason for denying your request. If it didn't matter, she would have allowed it.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:06 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Now, for the "why this is an annoying thing for a customer to do:" Tables are assigned on a rotation to try to keep each server getting the same number of guests and a balance. This getting messed up early (say a few tables come in and all end up requesting tables in one person's section) throws things off for the rest of the night. At best, it puts other servers in a bad mood (only ONE person is making money, everyone else is doing nothing). At worst, it makes it so everyone has periods of being absolutely swamped, then having nothing to do, alternately, whereas if the rotation was stuck to, a balance through the night would have been maintained.
This particular hostess probably had a problem that she was trying to keep from happening again -- either a particularly nasty server (because yes, hostesses do get nastiness from servers for things they can't prevent) or she had been reprimanded for not following the rotation and weeding someone (weeding meaning to make them busy beyond their ability to smoothly handle it). It could be that this place was empty when you got there, but fills up quickly at a certain time and they were trying to keep things balanced for that. So she definitely didn't handle your request in the smoothest way, but she likely had a good reason for denying your request. If it didn't matter, she would have allowed it.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:06 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Party size plays a role too.
Even if you are group of four and it looks like the four can fit just as easily in a booth or at Table 6 where there are four chairs, the hostess may have analyzed the night's reservations or expected business and knows that while the booth can never seat more than four, the table can be squeezed into a 6 with more chairs or paired with a neighboring table to make up an eight. So seeing a party of four, she may be much more eager to fill up her inflexible four-tops and not give away tables that can accommodate larger parties later, should they appear. Otherwise they might have to turn away a six or eight-top an hour from now, and that's not maximizing the resource of table space or serving as many customers in a night.
The last restaurant I worked in, I started as hostess and had to do this puzzle nightly. I did try to fill booths first and always tried to seat parties of two at two-tops. People in a two almost always want a four-top if they see empty ones. It can be difficult to explain that that ruins the flow for four-tops later - they're essentially taking the space of four while only providing the business of two - but we always had to try, because the place filled every night. It was quite a jigsaw puzzle and I spent a lot of hours between 3 and 5 PM penciling in different combinations until I could get the expected business into seats. That often meant having a fairly rigid plan early in the evening to fill up the less flexible tables first and then leave the most flexibility for when we got "hit" at 7.
I suspect that's what happened to you. Unlike in your place, most of the time I would have relented and given you the table that looked better to you. But honestly, there were some times I could not do it without risking not having a table ready for a later reservation. So sometimes I had to insist, and if the people pushed, it meant another 20 minutes re-configuring the night's seating plan in pencil one more time.
If you really want some crazy detail on the inner workings of this process, I wrote this comment some time ago about the hostessing challenge.
posted by Miko at 7:55 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Even if you are group of four and it looks like the four can fit just as easily in a booth or at Table 6 where there are four chairs, the hostess may have analyzed the night's reservations or expected business and knows that while the booth can never seat more than four, the table can be squeezed into a 6 with more chairs or paired with a neighboring table to make up an eight. So seeing a party of four, she may be much more eager to fill up her inflexible four-tops and not give away tables that can accommodate larger parties later, should they appear. Otherwise they might have to turn away a six or eight-top an hour from now, and that's not maximizing the resource of table space or serving as many customers in a night.
The last restaurant I worked in, I started as hostess and had to do this puzzle nightly. I did try to fill booths first and always tried to seat parties of two at two-tops. People in a two almost always want a four-top if they see empty ones. It can be difficult to explain that that ruins the flow for four-tops later - they're essentially taking the space of four while only providing the business of two - but we always had to try, because the place filled every night. It was quite a jigsaw puzzle and I spent a lot of hours between 3 and 5 PM penciling in different combinations until I could get the expected business into seats. That often meant having a fairly rigid plan early in the evening to fill up the less flexible tables first and then leave the most flexibility for when we got "hit" at 7.
I suspect that's what happened to you. Unlike in your place, most of the time I would have relented and given you the table that looked better to you. But honestly, there were some times I could not do it without risking not having a table ready for a later reservation. So sometimes I had to insist, and if the people pushed, it meant another 20 minutes re-configuring the night's seating plan in pencil one more time.
If you really want some crazy detail on the inner workings of this process, I wrote this comment some time ago about the hostessing challenge.
posted by Miko at 7:55 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I hate it when the hostess messes up the rotation. I have 5000 things to think about, and two dozen baby birds to take care off, and I can't handle you messing up my flow or my shit gets fucked. As long as my groove goes as planned, food gets served when it's cooked, water glasses stay full, and people are happy. That's why they did it.
posted by TheTingTangTong at 7:55 PM on December 8, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by TheTingTangTong at 7:55 PM on December 8, 2011 [12 favorites]
Were you requesting to sit at a table meant for a party larger than 4? This is actually an important part of information missing from your question.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 8:05 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by MaryDellamorte at 8:05 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: As a former owner (who worked the door for years prior) of very busy restaurants, I would seriously reprimand the host who denied you that table unless it was reserved within an hour of your arrival. The critical element is your comfort and happiness, and making sure that you leave with a good feeling ... not the feeling of trying to "understand" what goes on behind the scenes. Also, asses in seats at 5:30 is a quicker turn than those same asses at 7. There are numerous ways to move a table along in order to meet your next "turn" or rezzie on deck. In fact, simply smiling and saying, "Sure, but I may need to ask you to have coffee at the bar" works wonders.
posted by thinkpiece at 4:18 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by thinkpiece at 4:18 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Another reason that just occurred to me: If it was "super early" the restaurant may have not had its full complement of servers working yet. Let's say there are 6 sections of the restaurant, but they only have 2 servers on, covering two of those sections. If the table you wanted was in a section that did not have a server working it, one of the servers would have to "flex" to cover the table out of their section, which is even worse than being double sat. It means they must walk more to cover that table, they will have to go out of their way to check on the table, and it is easier to forget about doing something for them (out of sight, out of mind style).
All this said, a good front of the house staff will find a way to accommodate you, especially at a slow time.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:47 AM on December 9, 2011
All this said, a good front of the house staff will find a way to accommodate you, especially at a slow time.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:47 AM on December 9, 2011
Response by poster: Interesting. I get the whole "it ruins my rhythm" kind of thing - I really do - but I'd think that pleasing the customer would be the #1 priority of a business like a restaurant. (no?) Some restaurants, I suppose, can just afford not to care about that (and perhaps this was the case with my restaurant). I also get that some customers can probably be dreadfully rude and demanding. We were not - just wanted that nice cozy booth that was the perfect size for our party. (There was another booth right next to it with the same number of people so I know I wasn't asking for an oversized table). And I'm sure there are servers that make life very hard for the hosts that try to be accommodating. But isn't that where a good manager comes in? All I know is, that situation was uncomfortable enough that I won't be going back. So, trying to understand what sort of system is in place that creates that kind of interaction. Idiosyncratic indeed.
posted by kirst27 at 6:33 AM on December 9, 2011
posted by kirst27 at 6:33 AM on December 9, 2011
But isn't that where a good manager comes in?
Heh, you're making quite an assumption about the quality of management in most restaurants. Oftentimes, the shift managers were servers who got promoted -- this means no management training and a lot of past emotional experience from their time as a server. They play favorites, and they are sometimes power-trippy (not so much with older, more experienced managers). Restaurant staff at the average restaurant actually have very little training -- it's more of a "get in there and do it" job, where you then get reprimanded for screwing up.
And as far as pleasing the customer being top priority -- most of the time, yes. Honestly in your example it sounds like she should have given you the booth, but most likely this was a high school or college student who a) doesn't care much about her job, and b) had a higher priority of not getting reprimanded for messing up the rotation. A lot of hosts and hostesses are high school or college students with little work experience who barely get paid above minimum wage.
Obviously my comments don't stand for high-end restaurants who give their staff intensive training, or require years of experience to get hired.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:05 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Heh, you're making quite an assumption about the quality of management in most restaurants. Oftentimes, the shift managers were servers who got promoted -- this means no management training and a lot of past emotional experience from their time as a server. They play favorites, and they are sometimes power-trippy (not so much with older, more experienced managers). Restaurant staff at the average restaurant actually have very little training -- it's more of a "get in there and do it" job, where you then get reprimanded for screwing up.
And as far as pleasing the customer being top priority -- most of the time, yes. Honestly in your example it sounds like she should have given you the booth, but most likely this was a high school or college student who a) doesn't care much about her job, and b) had a higher priority of not getting reprimanded for messing up the rotation. A lot of hosts and hostesses are high school or college students with little work experience who barely get paid above minimum wage.
Obviously my comments don't stand for high-end restaurants who give their staff intensive training, or require years of experience to get hired.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:05 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'd think that pleasing the customer would be the #1 priority of a business like a restaurant. (no?)
It is, but it's also a limited resource - we can't push out the walls or add more tables on the night people arrive, and sometimes the answer really has to be "no." I think my worst experiences were when people arrived at, like, 5:30 and saw a pretty much empty restaurant, and asked for a table, and I had to say "no" because we had an influx of reservations at 6 or 6:30 and needed the tables for them. Sometimes you can say "the only way I can squeeze you in is for about an hour, we have a reservation for this table at 6:30 so if you're looking for a relaxed dinner this might not be the place" and we did squeeze them in when we could.
This thing with the booths is exactly like my last restaurant - we had 3 nice tall cozy wooden booths and a dozen other tables of mixed sizes and usually 3-4 waitstaff. Everyone wanted the booths first. This was a problem because we had the booths divvied up into two separate sections. We did that because it was the only way to "balance" the room so each server handled an equal number of seats over the course of the night. So I would fill the booth for Server A, fill the booth for Server B, and then try to seat a first table for Server C(not a booth because that station had no booths). Almost invariably the next party would come in, I'd lead them to Server C's section, and they'd say "Hey what about that nice cozy booth over there? Can we sit there?" So usually we'd have to comply, but it did throw off the evening when they insisted because it meant that Server A got two tables while B had one and C had none, meaning that in a half hour C would get tables sitting bang-bang-bang one after the other, get slammed, choke up the bar and choke up the kitchen, and we're off to the races.
So it's not just that they're being officious or stingy - there are real implications for the smooth operation of the restaurant. I'd say if you ever want a special table somewhere, call ahead - then they can use the advance notice and work around you. If you insist - AND if it's possible - they should do their best to acommodate you, but it is also a good idea to understand that there are factors governing the whole experience that are aimed at creating the best, smoothest, calmest, most well timed meal possible.
posted by Miko at 7:07 AM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
It is, but it's also a limited resource - we can't push out the walls or add more tables on the night people arrive, and sometimes the answer really has to be "no." I think my worst experiences were when people arrived at, like, 5:30 and saw a pretty much empty restaurant, and asked for a table, and I had to say "no" because we had an influx of reservations at 6 or 6:30 and needed the tables for them. Sometimes you can say "the only way I can squeeze you in is for about an hour, we have a reservation for this table at 6:30 so if you're looking for a relaxed dinner this might not be the place" and we did squeeze them in when we could.
This thing with the booths is exactly like my last restaurant - we had 3 nice tall cozy wooden booths and a dozen other tables of mixed sizes and usually 3-4 waitstaff. Everyone wanted the booths first. This was a problem because we had the booths divvied up into two separate sections. We did that because it was the only way to "balance" the room so each server handled an equal number of seats over the course of the night. So I would fill the booth for Server A, fill the booth for Server B, and then try to seat a first table for Server C(not a booth because that station had no booths). Almost invariably the next party would come in, I'd lead them to Server C's section, and they'd say "Hey what about that nice cozy booth over there? Can we sit there?" So usually we'd have to comply, but it did throw off the evening when they insisted because it meant that Server A got two tables while B had one and C had none, meaning that in a half hour C would get tables sitting bang-bang-bang one after the other, get slammed, choke up the bar and choke up the kitchen, and we're off to the races.
So it's not just that they're being officious or stingy - there are real implications for the smooth operation of the restaurant. I'd say if you ever want a special table somewhere, call ahead - then they can use the advance notice and work around you. If you insist - AND if it's possible - they should do their best to acommodate you, but it is also a good idea to understand that there are factors governing the whole experience that are aimed at creating the best, smoothest, calmest, most well timed meal possible.
posted by Miko at 7:07 AM on December 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you aren't at a chain, and you're at a good restaurant, I would say you are a guest, the way you are a guest at someone's house. Many people have a 'mi casa es su casa' attitude when they eat out and as a server, AND A CLIENT, I think they are dead wrong. You are at my house to eat my cooking and enjoy my ambiance (the way I set my place up). If you don't like it, go to Red Lobster or Burger King and you can have it your way. On the other hand, if you respect my establishment, and are interested in the vision I have, you'll be treated well and have a good time. But you might have to wait, you might not get the seat you want on this particular night, and we may run out of a dish, and if you try the patience of your waiter or hostess you might get glared at.
Of course the booth looked cozy to you and just oh-so-perfect, but it wasn't perfect for the restaurant to give it to you.
Play hardball all you want and don't come back. They won't miss you because for every needy customer at a good restaurant there are 10 more who are laid back (and good tippers!).
posted by TheTingTangTong at 7:17 AM on December 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
Of course the booth looked cozy to you and just oh-so-perfect, but it wasn't perfect for the restaurant to give it to you.
Play hardball all you want and don't come back. They won't miss you because for every needy customer at a good restaurant there are 10 more who are laid back (and good tippers!).
posted by TheTingTangTong at 7:17 AM on December 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
And as an owner with serious business goals, I am going to question the decision of a host to turn away a four-top at 5:30 because of what may happen later! That could be a hundred dollars or more not going in to the till. If your table map or staffing or rez book can't accomodate covers, as a host/manager/server you need to let your boss/owner know that ... not the guest!
posted by thinkpiece at 7:22 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by thinkpiece at 7:22 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'd think that pleasing the customer would be the #1 priority of a business like a restaurant. (no?) Some restaurants, I suppose, can just afford not to care about that (and perhaps this was the case with my restaurant).
The business model of a restaurant is based on juggling expense and risk and unknown factors. For example:
* Offer a variety of dishes to allow customers to satisfy their whims. Keep costs down while depending on an inventory of perishable ingredients.
* Plan food prep (ranging from 2 minutes to multiple days) so that no matter what combination of menu items is ordered by between 2-10 different people, they all get served at approximately the same time. Multiply by number of dinners you expect to serve that week.
* Arrange for customers to be able to order their meal, get drinks refilled, get questions answered, and have their plates cleared within expected time frames per table and per individual person. Multiply by number of tables per server, whether tables arrive at the same time or in intervals, with only guestimates to guide how many people will show up, in what configuration (groups of 2, 4, etc.), and how long each party will stay.
In order to pull this off consistently and be able to please their customers, they take control of a few secondary factors. If being able to choose your exact table and chairs is that high of a priority for you when dining out, I think you're going to need to plan farther ahead and make a special request. Or choose restaurants with more tables of the type that you prefer.
posted by desuetude at 7:55 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The business model of a restaurant is based on juggling expense and risk and unknown factors. For example:
* Offer a variety of dishes to allow customers to satisfy their whims. Keep costs down while depending on an inventory of perishable ingredients.
* Plan food prep (ranging from 2 minutes to multiple days) so that no matter what combination of menu items is ordered by between 2-10 different people, they all get served at approximately the same time. Multiply by number of dinners you expect to serve that week.
* Arrange for customers to be able to order their meal, get drinks refilled, get questions answered, and have their plates cleared within expected time frames per table and per individual person. Multiply by number of tables per server, whether tables arrive at the same time or in intervals, with only guestimates to guide how many people will show up, in what configuration (groups of 2, 4, etc.), and how long each party will stay.
In order to pull this off consistently and be able to please their customers, they take control of a few secondary factors. If being able to choose your exact table and chairs is that high of a priority for you when dining out, I think you're going to need to plan farther ahead and make a special request. Or choose restaurants with more tables of the type that you prefer.
posted by desuetude at 7:55 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Doublelune - yes, I realized as I typed that I was making an assumption about the management. But I can hope!
Miko - thanks for your comprehensive responses! This place, though, doesn't take reservations (and the table wasn't unavailable for other reasons, as there were people sitting there when we left). I think the host was being totally truthful when he told us that it would mess up the rotations.
TheTingTangTong - We tip well and are laid back! It was just baffling to me why, when the restaurant was practically empty, that booth was not available to us. I understand the reason now but I suppose I disagree that the restaurant/server cannot and should not handle the request.
23skidoo - Why couldn't one pair of servers just swap? How is that going to cause crappy service for the rest of the evening?
And not to derail my own thread - but I wonder: is there not a way to let the customer have the table they want and not cause troubles for the running of the restaurant? How do those "sit wherever you like" restaurants work?
posted by kirst27 at 7:57 AM on December 9, 2011
Miko - thanks for your comprehensive responses! This place, though, doesn't take reservations (and the table wasn't unavailable for other reasons, as there were people sitting there when we left). I think the host was being totally truthful when he told us that it would mess up the rotations.
TheTingTangTong - We tip well and are laid back! It was just baffling to me why, when the restaurant was practically empty, that booth was not available to us. I understand the reason now but I suppose I disagree that the restaurant/server cannot and should not handle the request.
23skidoo - Why couldn't one pair of servers just swap? How is that going to cause crappy service for the rest of the evening?
And not to derail my own thread - but I wonder: is there not a way to let the customer have the table they want and not cause troubles for the running of the restaurant? How do those "sit wherever you like" restaurants work?
posted by kirst27 at 7:57 AM on December 9, 2011
Mod note: Folks - this thread needs to stick to answering questions and not casting aspersions on the service/food at other people's houses (really?). Please take side conversations to email thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:03 AM on December 9, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:03 AM on December 9, 2011
They certainly could have honored your request in a number of different ways, but all of them would impose some level of inconvenience or confusion on the servers. Like I said, waiting tables is very rhythmic, and, like a drummer who stumbles on one measure can fuck up the whole band, getting one table out of rhythm in a busy restaurant can screw up everyone's night. Keep in mind, even if it wasn't busy when you came in, you might be staying there until the rush hits, so they need to keep that in mind.
Whether or not the host should have honored your request is a question about the philosophy and operations of that specific restaurant. Obviously, in TheTingTangTong's place, they would be commended for keeping things moving smoothly, but in the chain restaurant I hosted in in High School, I would have been chewed out for doing that.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:05 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Whether or not the host should have honored your request is a question about the philosophy and operations of that specific restaurant. Obviously, in TheTingTangTong's place, they would be commended for keeping things moving smoothly, but in the chain restaurant I hosted in in High School, I would have been chewed out for doing that.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:05 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
It may be true that you tip well, but to me your incomprehension as to why the restaurant didn't handle your request, even after it has been explained several times here, means you aren't the same kind of laid back I like dealing with out there in the wild wasteland of dealing with the public (though I will say, swapping is another huge annoyance when you are on the floor because now you're out of your section. Furthermore, if the table you gave up finished before the one you got in exchange (the one you are now walking out of your section to serve, dodging the gauntlet of looks and hands violating your personal space from the other tables in that section who see you and want you NOW because their waiter isn't there), you are now OVERSAT).
You give up certain elements of control when you come to my 'house.' Not to be a dick about it, but like I said, if you don't like that, go to a seat yourself restaurant and get your hashbrowns smothered and covered or however you like it. I won't miss you because my kitchen keeps the seats packed with my regulars who are there for the experience.
posted by TheTingTangTong at 8:06 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
You give up certain elements of control when you come to my 'house.' Not to be a dick about it, but like I said, if you don't like that, go to a seat yourself restaurant and get your hashbrowns smothered and covered or however you like it. I won't miss you because my kitchen keeps the seats packed with my regulars who are there for the experience.
posted by TheTingTangTong at 8:06 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Mmmm....hashbrowns.
TTTT- About the swapping: right, it puts the server in a different section and I see that that's no good for the server. Got it.
posted by kirst27 at 8:12 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
TTTT- About the swapping: right, it puts the server in a different section and I see that that's no good for the server. Got it.
posted by kirst27 at 8:12 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
And as an owner with serious business goals, I am going to question the decision of a host to turn away a four-top at 5:30 because of what may happen later!
My comments are restricted to a situation with reservations, where we know with very good accuracy what's going to happen later. Even in those places, on a random Tuesday night with only a few reservations I would always seat the 5:30 person wherever if I could, rather than turn them away, of course. But it's not always possible even though the reasons aren't always visible.
23skidoo - Why couldn't one pair of servers just swap? How is that going to cause crappy service for the rest of the evening?
Sometimes you can just swap. The risks of swapping, like 23skidoo says, are that the server might not be able to observe your table as often because you're not in their regular section. Part of the reason for sectioning is that you are basically always hovering around the same four or five or six tables, and always scanning those tables for whatever they need - more bread, water, drink order, clearing, payment. If a table is outside of your section you just can't track them as well and it might mean you miss a thing or two.
That's not too drastic. But the other thing is pathways. Another reason servers have sections is to minimize the number of people flying through there with trays of drinks or hot food. It's like a dance - you generally have the floor in your section and might have to work around a food runner and busser and you just keep track of them - but you don't expect to run into another server or what they're carrying. Sections helps minimize the number of bodies in each subspace in the restaurant and reduces accidents and klutziness.
This physical dimension to waiting tables is not always evident but I always enjoyed it and found it really important to workflow. Your moves become very efficient and routine and you rely on the autopilot to take over as you walk around doing tasks in the same 30 square feet all night. When you have an exception in routine it creates that oddly uncomfortable, not-smooth feeling of having a broken heel on your shoe or interlacing your hands with the wrong thumb on top. Not that that's a major concern, but swapping isn't always as simple as it looks either. Two of the restaurants I worked in actually had second floors, meaning you had to climb stairs with drinks and food trays. Having one table in a section like that while the rest were downstairs - ai. Those folks might as well have been in Siberia. It's not that I would forget them but I couldn't judge their timing because I just couldn't see them as I was attending to the other tables. And a minute feels like a neglectful half hour when you want a drink refill.
There really are different kinds of restaurants and different operations systems. "Sit anywhere" places on weekdays and weekend afternoons sometimes transform into places with waiting lists or reservations at about 5 PM on weekend nights. The major chains which (inexplicably to me) seem to always have lines out the door on the weekend also seem to be much more unscientific about the whole thing and just rely on the churn to always provide new customers in the line and always seat the new customers at the only open place - choice is pretty minimal in that scenario. I think to have a "sit anywhere" policy you really need to not care that much about balancing the server workload, either because there will be a constant steady stream of business for everyone no matter what, or because they honestly don't care because they're a mill, or because only one person is on doing service, or because only two servers are on and they've agreed to alternate regardless of sections. In the last place I worked we'd often just alternate on Tuesday night, because it was the slowest night and if we were only going to have 8 tables all night, the flow wasn't that important an issue and neither was the sectioning.
So there's no one universal answer that applies to all restaurants, but in this thread you can at least see some of the kinds of systems and configurations that might be at work.
posted by Miko at 8:38 AM on December 9, 2011
My comments are restricted to a situation with reservations, where we know with very good accuracy what's going to happen later. Even in those places, on a random Tuesday night with only a few reservations I would always seat the 5:30 person wherever if I could, rather than turn them away, of course. But it's not always possible even though the reasons aren't always visible.
23skidoo - Why couldn't one pair of servers just swap? How is that going to cause crappy service for the rest of the evening?
Sometimes you can just swap. The risks of swapping, like 23skidoo says, are that the server might not be able to observe your table as often because you're not in their regular section. Part of the reason for sectioning is that you are basically always hovering around the same four or five or six tables, and always scanning those tables for whatever they need - more bread, water, drink order, clearing, payment. If a table is outside of your section you just can't track them as well and it might mean you miss a thing or two.
That's not too drastic. But the other thing is pathways. Another reason servers have sections is to minimize the number of people flying through there with trays of drinks or hot food. It's like a dance - you generally have the floor in your section and might have to work around a food runner and busser and you just keep track of them - but you don't expect to run into another server or what they're carrying. Sections helps minimize the number of bodies in each subspace in the restaurant and reduces accidents and klutziness.
This physical dimension to waiting tables is not always evident but I always enjoyed it and found it really important to workflow. Your moves become very efficient and routine and you rely on the autopilot to take over as you walk around doing tasks in the same 30 square feet all night. When you have an exception in routine it creates that oddly uncomfortable, not-smooth feeling of having a broken heel on your shoe or interlacing your hands with the wrong thumb on top. Not that that's a major concern, but swapping isn't always as simple as it looks either. Two of the restaurants I worked in actually had second floors, meaning you had to climb stairs with drinks and food trays. Having one table in a section like that while the rest were downstairs - ai. Those folks might as well have been in Siberia. It's not that I would forget them but I couldn't judge their timing because I just couldn't see them as I was attending to the other tables. And a minute feels like a neglectful half hour when you want a drink refill.
There really are different kinds of restaurants and different operations systems. "Sit anywhere" places on weekdays and weekend afternoons sometimes transform into places with waiting lists or reservations at about 5 PM on weekend nights. The major chains which (inexplicably to me) seem to always have lines out the door on the weekend also seem to be much more unscientific about the whole thing and just rely on the churn to always provide new customers in the line and always seat the new customers at the only open place - choice is pretty minimal in that scenario. I think to have a "sit anywhere" policy you really need to not care that much about balancing the server workload, either because there will be a constant steady stream of business for everyone no matter what, or because they honestly don't care because they're a mill, or because only one person is on doing service, or because only two servers are on and they've agreed to alternate regardless of sections. In the last place I worked we'd often just alternate on Tuesday night, because it was the slowest night and if we were only going to have 8 tables all night, the flow wasn't that important an issue and neither was the sectioning.
So there's no one universal answer that applies to all restaurants, but in this thread you can at least see some of the kinds of systems and configurations that might be at work.
posted by Miko at 8:38 AM on December 9, 2011
My comments are restricted to a situation with reservations, where we know with very good accuracy what's going to happen later
Oops, to add, and the reason we did sometimes turn people away because of the reservations later was understanding that while the walk-ins might be frustrated that they can't sit down, someone who took the trouble to make a reservation and arrive on time will be seriously miffed if they can't sit down when they get there. And those people are more likely to be the regulars anyway, the cheerleaders and loyal repeat customers who you would least want to alienate.
Of course you should aim to make everybody happy, but sometimes it is not possible to make everybody perfectly happy and also live up to the basic 'restaurant social contract.'
posted by Miko at 8:41 AM on December 9, 2011
Oops, to add, and the reason we did sometimes turn people away because of the reservations later was understanding that while the walk-ins might be frustrated that they can't sit down, someone who took the trouble to make a reservation and arrive on time will be seriously miffed if they can't sit down when they get there. And those people are more likely to be the regulars anyway, the cheerleaders and loyal repeat customers who you would least want to alienate.
Of course you should aim to make everybody happy, but sometimes it is not possible to make everybody perfectly happy and also live up to the basic 'restaurant social contract.'
posted by Miko at 8:41 AM on December 9, 2011
kirst27: "Why couldn't one pair of servers just swap? How is that going to cause crappy service for the rest of the evening?"
Also, what do you do when one of the tables leaves? Suddenly the server has a full section plus that extra table in another section. As people have already said here, the sections are carefully planned out. Or the table gets up and another one is sat, but you've gotten so used to not watching that table because the people who were there were camping out for 1.5 hours just taking up space because they're evil and don't notice when a new group of people are sat there.
This sort of depends on how the restaurant usually operates. In my place, everyone one the island comes to eat at once. It's like they're all checking each others Facebook pages and once they see someone is going to Sermet's, they all get in the car so they can go too. It goes from "Who brought Monopoly today?" to "Shit Chris, I know we have a backwait but can you leave the dishes for a minute and cut us some bread!?" in about 2 minutes.
kirst27: "[B]ut I'd think that pleasing the customer would be the #1 priority of a business like a restaurant."
The restaurant isn't there to please just you though, it's there to please a lot of people. We've had a few hostesses who would ask people where they want to sit. Those nights sucked for everyone, especially when we were sectioning instead of rotating and the hostess was an idiot and ignored the sections completely.
Anther example, special orders. The chefs in a good restaurant certainly have the skills to make you something not on the menu. They might even have the ingredients and the time to do it. But once another table sees that you got a shrimp cocktail they're going to want one too. Or you'll come back on a busy night and want a shrimp cocktail again and get mad that you can't get it.
posted by theichibun at 8:52 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, what do you do when one of the tables leaves? Suddenly the server has a full section plus that extra table in another section. As people have already said here, the sections are carefully planned out. Or the table gets up and another one is sat, but you've gotten so used to not watching that table because the people who were there were camping out for 1.5 hours just taking up space because they're evil and don't notice when a new group of people are sat there.
This sort of depends on how the restaurant usually operates. In my place, everyone one the island comes to eat at once. It's like they're all checking each others Facebook pages and once they see someone is going to Sermet's, they all get in the car so they can go too. It goes from "Who brought Monopoly today?" to "Shit Chris, I know we have a backwait but can you leave the dishes for a minute and cut us some bread!?" in about 2 minutes.
kirst27: "[B]ut I'd think that pleasing the customer would be the #1 priority of a business like a restaurant."
The restaurant isn't there to please just you though, it's there to please a lot of people. We've had a few hostesses who would ask people where they want to sit. Those nights sucked for everyone, especially when we were sectioning instead of rotating and the hostess was an idiot and ignored the sections completely.
Anther example, special orders. The chefs in a good restaurant certainly have the skills to make you something not on the menu. They might even have the ingredients and the time to do it. But once another table sees that you got a shrimp cocktail they're going to want one too. Or you'll come back on a busy night and want a shrimp cocktail again and get mad that you can't get it.
posted by theichibun at 8:52 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I understand the reason now but I suppose I disagree that the restaurant/server cannot and should not handle the request.
I don't know what you and your spouse do for a living, but can't you imagine an analogous situation? A request that seems simple to someone who is unfamiliar with the big picture, but is actually so disruptive or requires so much extra unbudgeted effort that really, the answer is just no?
posted by desuetude at 2:23 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know what you and your spouse do for a living, but can't you imagine an analogous situation? A request that seems simple to someone who is unfamiliar with the big picture, but is actually so disruptive or requires so much extra unbudgeted effort that really, the answer is just no?
posted by desuetude at 2:23 PM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
About the swapping: right, it puts the server in a different section and I see that that's no good for the server. Got it.
Also, you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe one of the servers is new and table swapping would really mess things up for them. As many people have stated, there are many, many valid reasons to deny your request. The customer is mostly right, but sometimes wrong. Restaurants try to accommodate the customer to the best of their ability but not to the detriment of all the other guests. Table swapping and servers picking up tables out of designated sections is going to mess with the flow which in turn affects the quality of service for everyone else.
We tip well and are laid back!
Refusing to return to a restaurant because they didn't give you the exact table you wanted is not the definition of laid back.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 3:26 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also, you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe one of the servers is new and table swapping would really mess things up for them. As many people have stated, there are many, many valid reasons to deny your request. The customer is mostly right, but sometimes wrong. Restaurants try to accommodate the customer to the best of their ability but not to the detriment of all the other guests. Table swapping and servers picking up tables out of designated sections is going to mess with the flow which in turn affects the quality of service for everyone else.
We tip well and are laid back!
Refusing to return to a restaurant because they didn't give you the exact table you wanted is not the definition of laid back.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 3:26 PM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It helps a lot if you can ask for characteristics (booth vs. table, not by the windows, etc.) rather than a specific table - because specific tables are almost always assigned to a specific person, who might very well be on break or getting ready to leave for the day or new or whatever, the odds are lower that they can accommodate a specific location request. Booth vs. table often comes down to "George will get the next table, and Rachel will get the one after that, instead of the other way around."
You can always ask the management if they have a formal policy. It might have just been that one host who was inflexible - it's impossible to tell without being on the staff or going to the same place a lot.
posted by SMPA at 6:44 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]