Swahili-to-English translation
November 27, 2011 6:02 PM Subscribe
Can anyone out there translate these two short phrases/sayings, probably idiomatic, from Swahili to English?
Background: 35 years ago we lived in Tanzania, and bought several kangas (cotton fabric panels that women wrap around their bodies in various ways to create clothing). Two of them have jina, "names" or sayings/idioms in Swahili, on them, and I'd like to know what they are, especially any cultural connotations they might have.
Wapendanao ni vigumu kuwamua
Hata mkinuna lakunifanya hamuna
I've tried the online Swahili-to-English auto-translators which work just about as well as can be expected, which is to say not very. They also do not appear in the PDF posted by the Erie Art Museum from their kanga collection or in any of the sources linked from the Wikipedia article on kang, and I own an earlier edition of the Hanby & Bygott book, which doesn't contain anything on it.
(I'm also a little vague on when to use the term "Swahili" and when to use "Kiswahili," as I was five when we were in Tanzania; any corrections appreciated!)
Background: 35 years ago we lived in Tanzania, and bought several kangas (cotton fabric panels that women wrap around their bodies in various ways to create clothing). Two of them have jina, "names" or sayings/idioms in Swahili, on them, and I'd like to know what they are, especially any cultural connotations they might have.
Wapendanao ni vigumu kuwamua
Hata mkinuna lakunifanya hamuna
I've tried the online Swahili-to-English auto-translators which work just about as well as can be expected, which is to say not very. They also do not appear in the PDF posted by the Erie Art Museum from their kanga collection or in any of the sources linked from the Wikipedia article on kang, and I own an earlier edition of the Hanby & Bygott book, which doesn't contain anything on it.
(I'm also a little vague on when to use the term "Swahili" and when to use "Kiswahili," as I was five when we were in Tanzania; any corrections appreciated!)
Why do some people say "Swahili" and others say "Kiswahili," and which term is correct? What does the "Ki" mean in "Kiswahili?" Why do some people write "Kiswahili" and some people write "KiSwahili" with a capital "S" in the middle of the word?
We are often asked why we call our project "The Internet Living Swahili Dictionary," and not "The Internet Living Kiswahili Dictionary." The explanation is simple: "Swahili" is the English term for the Swahili language, while "Kiswahili" is the Swahili language term for the Swahili language. When writing in English, we use the word "Swahili," and when writing in Swahili, we use "Kiswahili." If you visit the version of this site written in the Swahili language, you will find that we use the term "Kiswahili" throughout.
This issue is not unique to discussions of Swahili. When we write in English, we speak of the Spanish language as "Spanish," the French language as "French," and the German language as "German," even though Spanish speakers speaking in their own language use the term "Español" (or "Castellano," in some cases), the French term for the French language is "Français," and the correct term for the German language when speaking in German is "Deutsch." Swahili speakers don't switch to Spanish when they talk about the Spanish language, and nor should they - the Swahili word for Spanish is "Kihispania," for French the term is "Kifaransa," and for German the term is "Kijerumani." When Swahili speakers talk about the English language while speaking Swahili, they use the term "Kiingereza." The Kamusi Project
posted by infini at 6:37 PM on November 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
We are often asked why we call our project "The Internet Living Swahili Dictionary," and not "The Internet Living Kiswahili Dictionary." The explanation is simple: "Swahili" is the English term for the Swahili language, while "Kiswahili" is the Swahili language term for the Swahili language. When writing in English, we use the word "Swahili," and when writing in Swahili, we use "Kiswahili." If you visit the version of this site written in the Swahili language, you will find that we use the term "Kiswahili" throughout.
This issue is not unique to discussions of Swahili. When we write in English, we speak of the Spanish language as "Spanish," the French language as "French," and the German language as "German," even though Spanish speakers speaking in their own language use the term "Español" (or "Castellano," in some cases), the French term for the French language is "Français," and the correct term for the German language when speaking in German is "Deutsch." Swahili speakers don't switch to Spanish when they talk about the Spanish language, and nor should they - the Swahili word for Spanish is "Kihispania," for French the term is "Kifaransa," and for German the term is "Kijerumani." When Swahili speakers talk about the English language while speaking Swahili, they use the term "Kiingereza." The Kamusi Project
posted by infini at 6:37 PM on November 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
My Swahili is pretty rusty but I’ll take a stab.
Wapendanao ni vigumu kuwamua
[Wa - pendana - o ] [ni] [vigumu] [ku - wa – m - ua]
[They - love one another – who] [are] [very difficult] [? – they –he/she/it – destroy]
“Those who love one another are not able to hurt each other.”
That’s as close as I can get. Kuwamua throws me. It could be an infinitive form of a verb, thus the ku- prefix, it could be a noun that I don’t know, or just something idiomatic that I’m not familiar with.
Hata mkinuna lakunifanya hamuna
[Hata] [m – ki – nuna] [la – ku – ni – fanya] [ha – mu – na]
[Never/until/since](not sure without context) [you – when/if – are grumpy] [it – you – me – make] [negative marker – you – have/do]
Not sure what to make of this one. Sorry. Hopefully someone else can flesh this out (and point out my errors).
As far as the Swahili/Kiswahili distinction, infini nailed it.
posted by anansi at 6:55 PM on November 27, 2011
Wapendanao ni vigumu kuwamua
[Wa - pendana - o ] [ni] [vigumu] [ku - wa – m - ua]
[They - love one another – who] [are] [very difficult] [? – they –he/she/it – destroy]
“Those who love one another are not able to hurt each other.”
That’s as close as I can get. Kuwamua throws me. It could be an infinitive form of a verb, thus the ku- prefix, it could be a noun that I don’t know, or just something idiomatic that I’m not familiar with.
Hata mkinuna lakunifanya hamuna
[Hata] [m – ki – nuna] [la – ku – ni – fanya] [ha – mu – na]
[Never/until/since](not sure without context) [you – when/if – are grumpy] [it – you – me – make] [negative marker – you – have/do]
Not sure what to make of this one. Sorry. Hopefully someone else can flesh this out (and point out my errors).
As far as the Swahili/Kiswahili distinction, infini nailed it.
posted by anansi at 6:55 PM on November 27, 2011
Best answer: Got an email back from my Kenyan colleague, here is what he said:
The first one means it's difficult to tell that two people are lovers. The second means...loosely translated 'even if you're angry with me, there's nothing you can do about'.
posted by infini at 1:00 AM on November 28, 2011
The first one means it's difficult to tell that two people are lovers. The second means...loosely translated 'even if you're angry with me, there's nothing you can do about'.
posted by infini at 1:00 AM on November 28, 2011
The word kuwamua in the first phrase is not spelled normatively; the dictionary form is kuamua (ku- + amua) 'to judge, decide.'
posted by languagehat at 6:19 AM on November 28, 2011
posted by languagehat at 6:19 AM on November 28, 2011
Why don't you message swahili-methali on twitter. They are curating and publishing a huge list of swahili proverbs.
Great list to scroll down too.
posted by stratastar at 2:11 PM on November 28, 2011 [2 favorites]
Great list to scroll down too.
posted by stratastar at 2:11 PM on November 28, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm going to go ahead and ask. I'll post back with results.
posted by stratastar at 2:16 PM on November 28, 2011
posted by stratastar at 2:16 PM on November 28, 2011
Response by poster: Thank you all very much! Sorry I was late getting back to this - I posted Sunday night then forgot all about it (oops)!
posted by telophase at 5:46 PM on November 29, 2011
posted by telophase at 5:46 PM on November 29, 2011
I like anansi's version of the first better than the one I got back
posted by infini at 11:29 AM on November 30, 2011
posted by infini at 11:29 AM on November 30, 2011
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posted by infini at 6:34 PM on November 27, 2011