Welcome to middle age drama!
November 24, 2011 10:46 AM Subscribe
Dumped by friend – What now?
I’ve been dumped by a friend, let’s call him Stevie, and I’m at a loss about a few things. First, the (super boring and unnecessarily long) timeline:
1) We know each other for six or seven years. The friendship fluctuates between close and more distant, depending on him having other friends, a boyfriend, etc.
2) Earlier this year, Stevie started being even more judgmental and gossipy about people than usual. There were several incidents of bad-mouthing, but one particular annoyed me the most. He had had a fall out with Jason and he told me, “You know Jason? He acts as if everything is great, right? But you know John, who works in Dangerous Human Testing Inc? He said that Jason is a ‘volunteer’ there for money.” Needless to say that I was shocked that someone would work in a lab like that and go around spilling the beans about someone they call a friend, and how ridiculous and petty Stevie was for repeating what he had heard, not to mention Jason was not doing anything wrong, and none of that was our business anyway. I didn’t feel like going there and having this interaction (basically calling Stevie and John jerks) and participating in this silliness, so instead I just shrugged it off and said, “I don’t judge” and changed the subject. This happened a few times more, with really incredibly juvenile and petty stuff, like the photos someone puts on Facebook, and it wasn’t even in a humorous way. I figured Stevie was in a weird place and feeling not that great about himself and let go. But if he insisted, I’d say something akin to “I don’t judge.”
Also, he once called me for the eighth time in a week to blab about a guy he had gone once on a date, and since I was just listening and not reacting, he said several times, “I know what you’re thinking” until I was like, “No, you don’t,” and did a little rant about that, and about how assuming that people are thinking bad things about you is counterproductive even though we all do that sometimes, and that he did that all the time. He got hurt.
3) Then I started feeling Stevie distant. I actually didn’t mind, because he can be clingy, and he was exhausting me. And I didn’t think he was dumping me, because recently he has been dumped by a bunch of friends and the thing he kept repeating was that they never said anything, just disappeared, and he would never do that because he is very direct and open and just says everything.
4) Now the story goes from merely juvenile to junior high levels. Ellen (a person I don’t know personally, I just know of) posts something about “love without judgment” on her Facebook wall. Stevie writes a five-paragraph response. It’s very articulate and I actually agree with that shit. It’s basically saying that we have no way NOT to judge in life. And people who claim not to judge are lying and/or judging the person who is doing the judgment. I was like, “Sure, seems right.” Ellen agrees and then he comes back and says,
“This discussion is very dear to my heart because I decided to distance myself from someone who claims to never judge. Thus, considering she’s always right and she always has to have the upper hand, I leave her behind, and I move on!” ٭
BOOM. It’s about me. I ask my SO, who says it’s clear crystal it’s about me.
5) I think it’s all for the best really. I don’t feel like being friends with Stevie anymore, and I guess this relationship reached its expiration date. I’ve decided about my acts: do nothing. Thing is, I can’t decide about my feelings.
My questions are:
▪ I feel angry about it. I want to feel neutral, indifferent. Time will probably fix this, but tips on speeding up the process are welcome.
▪ We have tones of friends in common. They are going to ask about it. I want to say, “I’d rather not talk about this.” Because the whole thing is so petty it is embarrassing. But he’ll be talking about me on my back. It’s annoying. It feels unfair. I guess that’s what is making me mad.
▪ He’s avoiding me like the Devil, but we’ll end up meeting. I’m not sure how to act when that happens.
The whole mess is brilliantly embarrassing, especially because we’re both in our early 40s.
Thanks Metafilter!
٭ This is basically a literal translation.
I’ve been dumped by a friend, let’s call him Stevie, and I’m at a loss about a few things. First, the (super boring and unnecessarily long) timeline:
1) We know each other for six or seven years. The friendship fluctuates between close and more distant, depending on him having other friends, a boyfriend, etc.
2) Earlier this year, Stevie started being even more judgmental and gossipy about people than usual. There were several incidents of bad-mouthing, but one particular annoyed me the most. He had had a fall out with Jason and he told me, “You know Jason? He acts as if everything is great, right? But you know John, who works in Dangerous Human Testing Inc? He said that Jason is a ‘volunteer’ there for money.” Needless to say that I was shocked that someone would work in a lab like that and go around spilling the beans about someone they call a friend, and how ridiculous and petty Stevie was for repeating what he had heard, not to mention Jason was not doing anything wrong, and none of that was our business anyway. I didn’t feel like going there and having this interaction (basically calling Stevie and John jerks) and participating in this silliness, so instead I just shrugged it off and said, “I don’t judge” and changed the subject. This happened a few times more, with really incredibly juvenile and petty stuff, like the photos someone puts on Facebook, and it wasn’t even in a humorous way. I figured Stevie was in a weird place and feeling not that great about himself and let go. But if he insisted, I’d say something akin to “I don’t judge.”
Also, he once called me for the eighth time in a week to blab about a guy he had gone once on a date, and since I was just listening and not reacting, he said several times, “I know what you’re thinking” until I was like, “No, you don’t,” and did a little rant about that, and about how assuming that people are thinking bad things about you is counterproductive even though we all do that sometimes, and that he did that all the time. He got hurt.
3) Then I started feeling Stevie distant. I actually didn’t mind, because he can be clingy, and he was exhausting me. And I didn’t think he was dumping me, because recently he has been dumped by a bunch of friends and the thing he kept repeating was that they never said anything, just disappeared, and he would never do that because he is very direct and open and just says everything.
4) Now the story goes from merely juvenile to junior high levels. Ellen (a person I don’t know personally, I just know of) posts something about “love without judgment” on her Facebook wall. Stevie writes a five-paragraph response. It’s very articulate and I actually agree with that shit. It’s basically saying that we have no way NOT to judge in life. And people who claim not to judge are lying and/or judging the person who is doing the judgment. I was like, “Sure, seems right.” Ellen agrees and then he comes back and says,
“This discussion is very dear to my heart because I decided to distance myself from someone who claims to never judge. Thus, considering she’s always right and she always has to have the upper hand, I leave her behind, and I move on!” ٭
BOOM. It’s about me. I ask my SO, who says it’s clear crystal it’s about me.
5) I think it’s all for the best really. I don’t feel like being friends with Stevie anymore, and I guess this relationship reached its expiration date. I’ve decided about my acts: do nothing. Thing is, I can’t decide about my feelings.
My questions are:
▪ I feel angry about it. I want to feel neutral, indifferent. Time will probably fix this, but tips on speeding up the process are welcome.
▪ We have tones of friends in common. They are going to ask about it. I want to say, “I’d rather not talk about this.” Because the whole thing is so petty it is embarrassing. But he’ll be talking about me on my back. It’s annoying. It feels unfair. I guess that’s what is making me mad.
▪ He’s avoiding me like the Devil, but we’ll end up meeting. I’m not sure how to act when that happens.
The whole mess is brilliantly embarrassing, especially because we’re both in our early 40s.
Thanks Metafilter!
٭ This is basically a literal translation.
Best answer: I know you're burning to say or do something and I know you know that's only going to make it worse. Your inner caveperson will just have to sit tight.
You don't really have much to lose here really. Your friend know what this guy's like. HR can't influence anyone to do anything they wouldn't have done without his influence. So he can't hurt your social standing.
I fully understand why explaining it is a problem. If you explain it in concrete terms it sounds like you're complaining about him writing "Call [TheGoodBlood's number] for a good time" in Sharpie on the wall of the sophomore boys' room. Just the telling of it makes you sound bad even though you're not the wrongdoer here. If anyone asks, just sigh "Bless his heart," and if pressed, "I'm not sure myself what happened, but he's entitled to his opinion." Otherwise, say nothing.
Then there's the bad feeling you get from watching a friend turn into a grade-a jerk, then dump you in a way that requires you to figure out for yourself what has happened. That just feels terrible and I haven't found a cure for that. Some will say be glad you got rid of him, I say it's too bad we can't expect better from our supposed friends. Whattayagonnado.
posted by tel3path at 11:14 AM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
You don't really have much to lose here really. Your friend know what this guy's like. HR can't influence anyone to do anything they wouldn't have done without his influence. So he can't hurt your social standing.
I fully understand why explaining it is a problem. If you explain it in concrete terms it sounds like you're complaining about him writing "Call [TheGoodBlood's number] for a good time" in Sharpie on the wall of the sophomore boys' room. Just the telling of it makes you sound bad even though you're not the wrongdoer here. If anyone asks, just sigh "Bless his heart," and if pressed, "I'm not sure myself what happened, but he's entitled to his opinion." Otherwise, say nothing.
Then there's the bad feeling you get from watching a friend turn into a grade-a jerk, then dump you in a way that requires you to figure out for yourself what has happened. That just feels terrible and I haven't found a cure for that. Some will say be glad you got rid of him, I say it's too bad we can't expect better from our supposed friends. Whattayagonnado.
posted by tel3path at 11:14 AM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Seriously? Just ignore the whole thing. If your friends ask, shrug and say "I don't know" or something like that. If you see him, act polite and let him be the jerk who ignores you. You didn't even seem to like him before, so who cares? This whole situation isn't worth your energy.
posted by brainmouse at 11:14 AM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 11:14 AM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
Stevie sounds pretty annoying.
When I get fed up with someone I drop them pretty fast and hard. I don't want to know them- full stop. They can live their weird lives on their own, and I won't give them one bit of attention I've only done this about 2 times in my life... I don't do drama.
One of these people were quite happy to walk around slamming me- but to everyone who asked me I just acted confused, and said we hadn't talked in a while but I knew he was doing pretty well. I felt that in comparison this would make him look crazy and not me.
If you run into him somewhere- just smile.... talk about the weather, the news, the sofa- but no more- he's not your friend, what else would you talk about? Your nonchalant attitude will be an amazing bodyguard.
posted by misspony at 11:15 AM on November 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
When I get fed up with someone I drop them pretty fast and hard. I don't want to know them- full stop. They can live their weird lives on their own, and I won't give them one bit of attention I've only done this about 2 times in my life... I don't do drama.
One of these people were quite happy to walk around slamming me- but to everyone who asked me I just acted confused, and said we hadn't talked in a while but I knew he was doing pretty well. I felt that in comparison this would make him look crazy and not me.
If you run into him somewhere- just smile.... talk about the weather, the news, the sofa- but no more- he's not your friend, what else would you talk about? Your nonchalant attitude will be an amazing bodyguard.
posted by misspony at 11:15 AM on November 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
Everyone knows a Stevie. These kind of people thrive off of feeling persecuted and creating "drama." I would be willing to bet that this is the exact reaction that he is trying to get out of you from his melodramatic distancing and his Facebook pity-party. Punctual nailed it when describing Stevie as either "not a good friend or emotionally unhealthy." Do nothing and be happy that this constant source of negativity is removing himself from your life.
posted by Nightman at 11:16 AM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Nightman at 11:16 AM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh autocomplete. "HR can't influence" -> "He can't
influence".
posted by tel3path at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2011
influence".
posted by tel3path at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2011
On note of friends, you can just say, "Hey, Stevie often is in a negative space, and I'm just not there with him." or something to that effect. No matter WHAT you do, Stevie WILL talk shit about you (and, honestly, he probably has been before this) and also, whatever anyone says to him he will magically transform into something way more negative than whatever it is.
Basically, this is where you see which of your friends are into the drama, and which ones are like, "Oh, huh. Ok, we're cool."
As far as feelings - myself? When I cut someone out of my life (or they cut me out of their life and I oblige), I go for no contact or minimal contact. Obviously, you'll be at events and probably run across him, but whatever. If you don't have to see or think about him, you can probably focus on things that ARE awesome in your life, that you haven't given enough time to.
posted by yeloson at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2011
Basically, this is where you see which of your friends are into the drama, and which ones are like, "Oh, huh. Ok, we're cool."
As far as feelings - myself? When I cut someone out of my life (or they cut me out of their life and I oblige), I go for no contact or minimal contact. Obviously, you'll be at events and probably run across him, but whatever. If you don't have to see or think about him, you can probably focus on things that ARE awesome in your life, that you haven't given enough time to.
posted by yeloson at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2011
I went through this recently, had a friendship divorce that I thought was fairly amicable and understood on both sides only to find out that said person was going behind my back and saying a lot of bad things (both true and untrue) about me. I was angry and hurt, and like you I didn't know what proper protocol was. I didn't want to do anything to exacerbate the situation and make her behave even worse, and I didn't know what to say when people asked, 'Hey, I don't see you around with _______ anymore. Whats up with that?"
In the end I decided to pretend like I didn't know about the backstabbing and childish behaviour and went about my life. The being angry and hurt over their actions was there for me too but I used it as confirmation that it was the right time to part ways with her. I also embraced something of a moral victory of taking the high road and not dishing on her to anyone who would listen. When people ask me why we aren't hanging out anymore I just say, "Well, we grew apart." and leave it at that. Sure, I could go on and explain all the dramz and nonsense she was trying to kick up, but that would just add fuel to the fire and make me stoop to her level. I have crossed paths with her since and yeah, it was awkward, but I was friendly, smiled, exchanged a few pleasantries and then moved the hell on with my day.
posted by gwenlister at 11:19 AM on November 24, 2011
In the end I decided to pretend like I didn't know about the backstabbing and childish behaviour and went about my life. The being angry and hurt over their actions was there for me too but I used it as confirmation that it was the right time to part ways with her. I also embraced something of a moral victory of taking the high road and not dishing on her to anyone who would listen. When people ask me why we aren't hanging out anymore I just say, "Well, we grew apart." and leave it at that. Sure, I could go on and explain all the dramz and nonsense she was trying to kick up, but that would just add fuel to the fire and make me stoop to her level. I have crossed paths with her since and yeah, it was awkward, but I was friendly, smiled, exchanged a few pleasantries and then moved the hell on with my day.
posted by gwenlister at 11:19 AM on November 24, 2011
Best answer: I want to say, “I’d rather not talk about this.”
This sounds like you really want to avoid drama... But I think actually saying this will only ratchet up the drama. It adds this atmosphere of "Something BAD happened! Something so bad... I WON'T TALK ABOUT IT!!!!" That will only feed Stevie's apparent need for drama.
Instead, I suggest being honest, in a compassionate way. Something like this: "Yeah, Stevie and I had a falling out. We've been growing distant lately, and I think we both were just getting under each other's skins. That happens sometimes, ya know?"
The point is, if you say anything negative about Stevie that gets back at him, he'll ratchet up the drama. If you say anything that sounds like you're putting responsibility on him for the falling out, he'll ratchet up the drama. If you say anything that makes it sound like you're specifically innocent of any wrongdoing, he'll ratchet up the drama. So, if you're worried about what your friends will say to him about what you've said, just make sure you keep it simple, true, and neutral.
This may be hard, if you're still feeling angry. But, I don't really think there's anything you could say that would help with the anger. Instead, I think you can only get over the anger through introspection and time.
posted by meese at 11:19 AM on November 24, 2011 [8 favorites]
This sounds like you really want to avoid drama... But I think actually saying this will only ratchet up the drama. It adds this atmosphere of "Something BAD happened! Something so bad... I WON'T TALK ABOUT IT!!!!" That will only feed Stevie's apparent need for drama.
Instead, I suggest being honest, in a compassionate way. Something like this: "Yeah, Stevie and I had a falling out. We've been growing distant lately, and I think we both were just getting under each other's skins. That happens sometimes, ya know?"
The point is, if you say anything negative about Stevie that gets back at him, he'll ratchet up the drama. If you say anything that sounds like you're putting responsibility on him for the falling out, he'll ratchet up the drama. If you say anything that makes it sound like you're specifically innocent of any wrongdoing, he'll ratchet up the drama. So, if you're worried about what your friends will say to him about what you've said, just make sure you keep it simple, true, and neutral.
This may be hard, if you're still feeling angry. But, I don't really think there's anything you could say that would help with the anger. Instead, I think you can only get over the anger through introspection and time.
posted by meese at 11:19 AM on November 24, 2011 [8 favorites]
What can you do? Remind yourself that you're miles above this guy.
As for the common friends, I wouldn't bring him up at all. If asked, keep it short and distant, that "That's between me and him". Don't say anything else. You don't need to.
No doubt Stevie is talking a hell of a lot about you, and yeah that'll have an impact. Your common friends won't want to be in the middle, and if one guy is providing all the drama, and there's nothing coming from you -- you're golden. Because you're miles above this guy.
Stevie's going to burn more friends down the road. Stay golden. If you have to interact with him, be cool but civil.
Sometimes we need to divorce our friends. That's fine. Cut loose the human anchor. Sail free.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:54 AM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
As for the common friends, I wouldn't bring him up at all. If asked, keep it short and distant, that "That's between me and him". Don't say anything else. You don't need to.
No doubt Stevie is talking a hell of a lot about you, and yeah that'll have an impact. Your common friends won't want to be in the middle, and if one guy is providing all the drama, and there's nothing coming from you -- you're golden. Because you're miles above this guy.
Stevie's going to burn more friends down the road. Stay golden. If you have to interact with him, be cool but civil.
Sometimes we need to divorce our friends. That's fine. Cut loose the human anchor. Sail free.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:54 AM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's okay to be angry. You broke up. It's a normal response be it friends or lovers.
Take the high road. Feel free to deny any accusations that were falsely pointed in your direction by him, but don't talk badly about him to mutual friends. To people who are your true friends, it will be clear that you're not a jerk and he has somehow changed.
Keep yourself busy. That's always the best advice to getting over someone.
posted by inturnaround at 12:01 PM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Take the high road. Feel free to deny any accusations that were falsely pointed in your direction by him, but don't talk badly about him to mutual friends. To people who are your true friends, it will be clear that you're not a jerk and he has somehow changed.
Keep yourself busy. That's always the best advice to getting over someone.
posted by inturnaround at 12:01 PM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would keep my distance and let things blow over. Chances seem likely he'll fix in on a different target next week. In other words, he's treating you like he treats the other people in his life and you all deserve better.
posted by dragonplayer at 1:22 PM on November 24, 2011
posted by dragonplayer at 1:22 PM on November 24, 2011
It doesn't so much sound like you've been broken up with than it does that this guy is a gossip and only wants to hang out with people who share that interest. Once you started putting up roadblocks to this very important personality trait, you ceased to have any use. Don't get hung up on his anonymous comment having anything to do with you, it just sounds like that's just what he does. "Oh, Stevie's complaining about someone else now." This bothers some people more than others, and if this is really his overarching personality he will find people who are copacetic about it. You aren't one of them, but I wouldn't worry about having to see him socially or anything.
posted by rhizome at 1:25 PM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:25 PM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: All great answers, thanks.
meese, you're right about "I’d rather not talk about this.” It would sound melodramatic, and I had not thought about this.
sculpin, I couldn't agree with you more. But I don't have to think about what he said because I basically always felt that way. That's why I explained the particular situation when I used that (admittedly charged) expression: I felt it was extreme. In retrospect, in the conversation about Jason, I could have said, "Yeah, but selling your body to science is not morally wrong, even if it's not the smartest thing you can do, but revealing private privileged information you get through work about a supposed friend is not only immoral, it's also illegal." Knowing that this would just fast-forward the end of the friendship. But I thought stupidly that since I'm the kind of person who never has the holier-than-thou attitude, and who actively express a distaste with that, he would get the hint (something like, "you know I normally judge shit, but in this case you're in the wrong"). So if there's a lesson here, it's to be less tolerant with some kinds of assholey behaviour and more confrontational? Nah, I feel the lesson is elsewhere and I cannot locate it. Or maybe there's no lesson. And thanks to you guys, I'm OK with it.
posted by TheGoodBlood at 1:29 PM on November 24, 2011
meese, you're right about "I’d rather not talk about this.” It would sound melodramatic, and I had not thought about this.
sculpin, I couldn't agree with you more. But I don't have to think about what he said because I basically always felt that way. That's why I explained the particular situation when I used that (admittedly charged) expression: I felt it was extreme. In retrospect, in the conversation about Jason, I could have said, "Yeah, but selling your body to science is not morally wrong, even if it's not the smartest thing you can do, but revealing private privileged information you get through work about a supposed friend is not only immoral, it's also illegal." Knowing that this would just fast-forward the end of the friendship. But I thought stupidly that since I'm the kind of person who never has the holier-than-thou attitude, and who actively express a distaste with that, he would get the hint (something like, "you know I normally judge shit, but in this case you're in the wrong"). So if there's a lesson here, it's to be less tolerant with some kinds of assholey behaviour and more confrontational? Nah, I feel the lesson is elsewhere and I cannot locate it. Or maybe there's no lesson. And thanks to you guys, I'm OK with it.
posted by TheGoodBlood at 1:29 PM on November 24, 2011
And I didn’t think he was dumping me, because recently he has been dumped by a bunch of friends and the thing he kept repeating was that they never said anything, just disappeared, and he would never do that because he is very direct and open and just says everything.
I have shed my life of a couple of drama queens over the years. I usually found that as soon as we were no longer friends, my friends and acquaintances would confide in me that they had really disliked the person. Kinda like how people silently hate their friend's shitty boyfriend/girlfriend, only revealing their true feelings after the breakup. Also, I found that these people had been quietly dropped by a lot of their friends like you describe above. So let him get on with his childish nonsense because you have a life to get on with.
posted by futureisunwritten at 1:33 PM on November 24, 2011
I have shed my life of a couple of drama queens over the years. I usually found that as soon as we were no longer friends, my friends and acquaintances would confide in me that they had really disliked the person. Kinda like how people silently hate their friend's shitty boyfriend/girlfriend, only revealing their true feelings after the breakup. Also, I found that these people had been quietly dropped by a lot of their friends like you describe above. So let him get on with his childish nonsense because you have a life to get on with.
posted by futureisunwritten at 1:33 PM on November 24, 2011
Best answer: Friendships have a life span. Part of the reason this particular friendship is ending so histrionically is that at least one of you is framing it in terms of ethics - if you don't want the drama, you might benefit from thinking about it simply in terms of compatibility. It's not about who's a better person, just about what you have in common. Stevie's perspectives and yours, and his hobbies and yours, are no longer sufficiently shared to sustain a friendship. Hide him on Facebook and move on - when you run into each other, treat him as you would any other acquaintance you don't know well and you don't plan on developing into a closer friend.
posted by gingerest at 2:41 PM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 2:41 PM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
If people ask about it, my favorite response is to just tell them, "I have no idea." Shrug. Look mildly bewildered. If you have no idea, there's not much they can try and pick out of you.
If you end up meeting, all you have to do is say, "Hi, Stevie," and walk away. If he engages in childish Avoiding You antics (you know how they act in sitcoms when they're trying to avoid being seen? I've seen people do this), simply ignore him. Nobody will think poorly of you for him ducking around people he doesn't know and hissing in stage whispers, "I DON'T WANT THEGOODBLOOD TO SEE ME!!!!" He will simply make an ass of himself, and that's his choice. Otherwise... calm, breezy, brief.
My favorite ways of getting over someone is to take all the energy I put towards that person and instead, put it towards another activity. Poetry, painting, roller derby, cooking, anything. Something you want to try, give it a shot.
posted by mornie_alantie at 4:52 PM on November 24, 2011
If you end up meeting, all you have to do is say, "Hi, Stevie," and walk away. If he engages in childish Avoiding You antics (you know how they act in sitcoms when they're trying to avoid being seen? I've seen people do this), simply ignore him. Nobody will think poorly of you for him ducking around people he doesn't know and hissing in stage whispers, "I DON'T WANT THEGOODBLOOD TO SEE ME!!!!" He will simply make an ass of himself, and that's his choice. Otherwise... calm, breezy, brief.
My favorite ways of getting over someone is to take all the energy I put towards that person and instead, put it towards another activity. Poetry, painting, roller derby, cooking, anything. Something you want to try, give it a shot.
posted by mornie_alantie at 4:52 PM on November 24, 2011
"Yeah, but selling your body to science is not morally wrong, even if it's not the smartest thing you can do, but revealing private privileged information you get through work about a supposed friend is not only immoral, it's also illegal."
Guess what? You are relying on Stevie's word that John told him about Jason. Doesn't seem like you trust what Stevie will say about YOU, and about your actions and words to Stevie, so why would you trust what he says about someone else?
It's all too easy to fall into believing gossip and being judgmental about things you actually have no first-hand experience about, nor any confirmation from the one who is being gossiped about. Though you said you don't judge, you in fact ARE judging John, and quite unfairly since you have no first-hand knowledge and haven't even talked to John.
Unfortunately, people have a tendency to believe what they hear, even from unreliable sources, when they have no other information. Your friends will likely believe some of what they hear from Stevie regarding you, if you don't give them your own story to counterbalance it. If there's a vacuum on your side, and info on his, the info is going to be what sticks.
Not saying you shouldn't stick with the "do nothing" plan, just realize that the likely consequence of that is that his gossip about you will be more likely believed with nothing to counterbalance it.
posted by parrot_person at 7:29 PM on November 24, 2011
Guess what? You are relying on Stevie's word that John told him about Jason. Doesn't seem like you trust what Stevie will say about YOU, and about your actions and words to Stevie, so why would you trust what he says about someone else?
It's all too easy to fall into believing gossip and being judgmental about things you actually have no first-hand experience about, nor any confirmation from the one who is being gossiped about. Though you said you don't judge, you in fact ARE judging John, and quite unfairly since you have no first-hand knowledge and haven't even talked to John.
Unfortunately, people have a tendency to believe what they hear, even from unreliable sources, when they have no other information. Your friends will likely believe some of what they hear from Stevie regarding you, if you don't give them your own story to counterbalance it. If there's a vacuum on your side, and info on his, the info is going to be what sticks.
Not saying you shouldn't stick with the "do nothing" plan, just realize that the likely consequence of that is that his gossip about you will be more likely believed with nothing to counterbalance it.
posted by parrot_person at 7:29 PM on November 24, 2011
I was very upset over something (similar to what you are describing) and my older (more experienced) friend told me that at the beginning (of whatever our problem is) feelings will boil like on the front burners of a stove (turned on high). Later, however, we may still have some feelings about the problem... but in time we move everything to the back burners where they just slowly simmer. Feelings are transitory! In one week's time (probably less) you will be moving all this to your back burners.
Bonus! We do need to be grateful to people who upset us, however, because the more upset we are the more there MAY be a grain of truth in their complaint about us. Take what you can learn, but consider the "dumping" 100% mutual. (He sounds like such a jerk!)
posted by naplesyellow at 7:49 PM on November 24, 2011
Bonus! We do need to be grateful to people who upset us, however, because the more upset we are the more there MAY be a grain of truth in their complaint about us. Take what you can learn, but consider the "dumping" 100% mutual. (He sounds like such a jerk!)
posted by naplesyellow at 7:49 PM on November 24, 2011
He wrote that on Facebook???!!
I guess you were supposed to have noticed the no calls/no contact as him dumping you. So when you didn't get all wound up about it, calling him, asking 'WHY STEVIE, WHY??" etc, he had to take it to the next drama level. He has to feel like he's had the last word and that, look everyone!, you've been dumped by him. [I think he probably feels abandoned and dumped by you. As you say, you toned down relations with him and refused to engage in the stuff that shits you about his conversation trails.]
And look, he's found an online theatre for his sanctimonious 'reasoning'. That stuff just makes him look like a moron. If you bump into him keep it low key and basic. If this whole episode comes up in conversation, you could just say 'not sure Facebook is the best way of communicating your issues with a friendship, but I guess I agree with the basics: we do have our differences in the way we handle things in life. C'est la vie!' and don't engage further.
posted by honey-barbara at 10:40 PM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I guess you were supposed to have noticed the no calls/no contact as him dumping you. So when you didn't get all wound up about it, calling him, asking 'WHY STEVIE, WHY??" etc, he had to take it to the next drama level. He has to feel like he's had the last word and that, look everyone!, you've been dumped by him. [I think he probably feels abandoned and dumped by you. As you say, you toned down relations with him and refused to engage in the stuff that shits you about his conversation trails.]
And look, he's found an online theatre for his sanctimonious 'reasoning'. That stuff just makes him look like a moron. If you bump into him keep it low key and basic. If this whole episode comes up in conversation, you could just say 'not sure Facebook is the best way of communicating your issues with a friendship, but I guess I agree with the basics: we do have our differences in the way we handle things in life. C'est la vie!' and don't engage further.
posted by honey-barbara at 10:40 PM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
You BOTH sounded sanctimonious in this story. Stevie is a head case; that much is evident from the way he publicized his feelings. But responding, "I don't judge" is so morally lofty and deeply untrue that I can understand why he was annoyed. And then invalidating his feelings when he worried someone was thinking bad about him by righteously informing him that such thoughts are counterproductive? Sounds judge-y to me, especially when you're worrying what people will think if you if they hear Stevie's side. Drop this drama addict, but take some of the lessons he's (clumsily) attempting to impart and really look at them.
posted by pineappleheart at 11:30 PM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by pineappleheart at 11:30 PM on November 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
When you noticed he badmouthed other friends to you, it was over. This is patently uncool and everything you needed to know about this jerk. Basically, he told you he would badmouth you one day - and he did.
Move on!
posted by jbenben at 1:52 AM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]
Move on!
posted by jbenben at 1:52 AM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]
Facebook is where grownups go to re-live high school. I don't know why they do that.
posted by flabdablet at 2:32 AM on November 25, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 2:32 AM on November 25, 2011 [5 favorites]
If friends ask, just say Stevie's apparently unhappy with me. I imagine it will blow over. and if they dig for more, then just shrug and say I really don't know what's going on, and haven't the energy to put into it. When you see Stevie, be polite, and act as if nothing is wrong. There's way too much drama here, and I'd de-escalate.
posted by theora55 at 10:42 AM on November 25, 2011
posted by theora55 at 10:42 AM on November 25, 2011
It honestly sounds like you two brought out the worst in each other, although at least from what you've told us, he sounds more exhausting; I mostly agree with pineappleheart in that I can understand why Stevie felt irritated at you, but I also have some sympathy for you because it's really difficult to frame a response to the kind of stuff Stevie says without sounding morally superior just semantically, and by the time you're worn down by that behavior, you're going to be in the worst position to frame things carefully. It's also a lot easier to brush things off as normal people-are-allowed-to-feel-judgmental-sometimes stuff when someone isn't like that ALL the time, which it sounds like Stevie is. In other words, it sounds like some frustrated vibe of "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU THINK SO HORRIBLY OF OTHER PEOPLE" seeped into things when you had to respond to Stevie, and that pushes people's sanctimonious buttons even when (and perhaps especially) they really are extreme in that behavior. Hearing from other people that you shouldn't be a jerk is almost always annoying, regardless of whether you deserve it, you know? So having to be the person that can't stand the jerkish behavior anymore and needs to say something is a difficult position to be in, and it's even worse when they try to get you to join in on the jerkishness with them because then they're trying to bond with you and feel hurt when you reject them. It almost never goes over well.
In short, it requires a TON of patience without any negativity seeping in to get through to someone like Stevie, and you don't have that insanely high degree of patience. You could work on being more patient and that would be great, yes, and I think everyone should always be doing that. But it's not a shameful thing to not yet have that patience, and Stevie doesn't sound like a friend worth having, and Stevie brings out negative qualities in you because you're only human. So THROW YOURSELF A PARTY that he's gone! It's a lot easier to be a patient person when you have fewer people trying your patience. It sounds counterintuitive because you'd think they give you valuable practice or something, but it's really not the case. When there's only one or two people in your life trying your patience, and only sometimes, you're just in a good mental space to dedicate the self-control to deal with them. When you're being assailed by these people all the time, you stretch yourself thin and you can't pull it off a lot of the time. You end up getting more practice snapping at people, or just barely scraping up enough patience to avoid catastrophe but not enough to solve anything, and it becomes habit. When I ditched an entire circle of dramatic people my life was suddenly awesome, and I became better at dealing with difficult people when they weren't the only people I dealt with.
Anyway, my first thought when reading this was "geez, why aren't you the one friend-dumping him?" And if you have a ton of shared friends I'd be surprised if they don't display some similar shitty behavior, because at least in my experience, if a person like that is tolerated within the group, a ton of crap is tolerated within the group. So when you worry about what your shared friends will think, I wonder if this isn't a blessing. Wouldn't you like to NOT have all that drama in your life? Do any of your shared friends consistently grate on you and trash talk and be passive aggressive or at least tolerate that behavior? Because if you lose those friends, WONDERFUL. And if your friends are all the exact opposite of Stevie, I would expect to find them on your side, though I would wonder why they hang out with him at all. Usually gossipers have friends because those friends find talking about other people to be hilarious or at least normal, and things get really ugly in those social circles really fast; already insecure people become less and less secure when they have to worry what their friends think and say about them behind their back, so they get more vicious, and so on. Just the fact that you're worried what your friends will think makes me wonder if this isn't what your social circle is like; if someone did or said the sort of things Stevie did among my friends circle, it would be clear to everyone that Stevie was a weirdo jerk and my only mistake was not going along with his weirdo jerkiness. It would be mildly funny, if anything, and we'd all shrug and move on and not engage with Stevie anymore.
In short, if you tolerate drama, then you get drama. If your friends tolerate drama, you get drama. If you and/or your friends bond over negative things -- complaining, gossiping -- then you're guaranteed to be continually immersed in negativity, and you're guaranteed to sometimes be the target of it, even if you also bond over positive things. Those kinds of friends are like Russian roulette. For a long time, I guess because of the media, I thought that it was normal for friends to do that to each other, and if I didn't tolerate it I was being disloyal or unreasonable. I had some idea that there was no such things as friends who don't have issues semi-regularly. I was totally wrong. Ever since I established the standard of "tolerate anything except that which is mean-spirited" I have rarely been stressed out by anything social. If someone likes to judge other people to make themselves feel better -- thinking it's funny is making themselves feel better -- then that's it. If they judge or gossip about our friends, I assume they will do the same about me, and that's it. With new people, things don't progress to the point where my rejection could considerably hurt them, because it's clear long before then what kind of person they are and I just don't engage with them anymore.
To put it another way, if you don't befriend mean people -- and I define mean as "mean often enough" because few people are 100% terrible, and people get stuck with shitty friends because they tell themselves they're nice sometimes -- then you don't find yourself in this kind of mess. You don't have to worry about coming across sanctimonious because there's no reason to. The friends that you're worried will think ill of you are precisely the friends you don't want. So whatever fallout may come, try to look at it positively. It will really suck and hurt and all that at the time, but it gets better pretty fast once you see how much happier you are without those people.
posted by Nattie at 3:46 PM on November 25, 2011 [4 favorites]
In short, it requires a TON of patience without any negativity seeping in to get through to someone like Stevie, and you don't have that insanely high degree of patience. You could work on being more patient and that would be great, yes, and I think everyone should always be doing that. But it's not a shameful thing to not yet have that patience, and Stevie doesn't sound like a friend worth having, and Stevie brings out negative qualities in you because you're only human. So THROW YOURSELF A PARTY that he's gone! It's a lot easier to be a patient person when you have fewer people trying your patience. It sounds counterintuitive because you'd think they give you valuable practice or something, but it's really not the case. When there's only one or two people in your life trying your patience, and only sometimes, you're just in a good mental space to dedicate the self-control to deal with them. When you're being assailed by these people all the time, you stretch yourself thin and you can't pull it off a lot of the time. You end up getting more practice snapping at people, or just barely scraping up enough patience to avoid catastrophe but not enough to solve anything, and it becomes habit. When I ditched an entire circle of dramatic people my life was suddenly awesome, and I became better at dealing with difficult people when they weren't the only people I dealt with.
Anyway, my first thought when reading this was "geez, why aren't you the one friend-dumping him?" And if you have a ton of shared friends I'd be surprised if they don't display some similar shitty behavior, because at least in my experience, if a person like that is tolerated within the group, a ton of crap is tolerated within the group. So when you worry about what your shared friends will think, I wonder if this isn't a blessing. Wouldn't you like to NOT have all that drama in your life? Do any of your shared friends consistently grate on you and trash talk and be passive aggressive or at least tolerate that behavior? Because if you lose those friends, WONDERFUL. And if your friends are all the exact opposite of Stevie, I would expect to find them on your side, though I would wonder why they hang out with him at all. Usually gossipers have friends because those friends find talking about other people to be hilarious or at least normal, and things get really ugly in those social circles really fast; already insecure people become less and less secure when they have to worry what their friends think and say about them behind their back, so they get more vicious, and so on. Just the fact that you're worried what your friends will think makes me wonder if this isn't what your social circle is like; if someone did or said the sort of things Stevie did among my friends circle, it would be clear to everyone that Stevie was a weirdo jerk and my only mistake was not going along with his weirdo jerkiness. It would be mildly funny, if anything, and we'd all shrug and move on and not engage with Stevie anymore.
In short, if you tolerate drama, then you get drama. If your friends tolerate drama, you get drama. If you and/or your friends bond over negative things -- complaining, gossiping -- then you're guaranteed to be continually immersed in negativity, and you're guaranteed to sometimes be the target of it, even if you also bond over positive things. Those kinds of friends are like Russian roulette. For a long time, I guess because of the media, I thought that it was normal for friends to do that to each other, and if I didn't tolerate it I was being disloyal or unreasonable. I had some idea that there was no such things as friends who don't have issues semi-regularly. I was totally wrong. Ever since I established the standard of "tolerate anything except that which is mean-spirited" I have rarely been stressed out by anything social. If someone likes to judge other people to make themselves feel better -- thinking it's funny is making themselves feel better -- then that's it. If they judge or gossip about our friends, I assume they will do the same about me, and that's it. With new people, things don't progress to the point where my rejection could considerably hurt them, because it's clear long before then what kind of person they are and I just don't engage with them anymore.
To put it another way, if you don't befriend mean people -- and I define mean as "mean often enough" because few people are 100% terrible, and people get stuck with shitty friends because they tell themselves they're nice sometimes -- then you don't find yourself in this kind of mess. You don't have to worry about coming across sanctimonious because there's no reason to. The friends that you're worried will think ill of you are precisely the friends you don't want. So whatever fallout may come, try to look at it positively. It will really suck and hurt and all that at the time, but it gets better pretty fast once you see how much happier you are without those people.
posted by Nattie at 3:46 PM on November 25, 2011 [4 favorites]
Everyone else posted great suggestions, but also think of this: if you get the feeling that Stevie is one great big gossip, chances are that everyone else in your social circle does, too. I'm sure that any friend or associate worth their salt will simply take any future judgements of you with a grain of it.
posted by Ashen at 5:16 PM on November 27, 2011
posted by Ashen at 5:16 PM on November 27, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
-cuddling with my kitties for long stretches
-long runs
-random fits of cleaning
-Internet time-wasting
I do not have time for:
-Adult people who act like children
Ignore him. He is either not a good friend or he is emotionally unhealthy, and it is impacting you negatively. At some point, you have to cut off the emotional vampires in your life.
Good luck.
posted by Punctual at 11:08 AM on November 24, 2011 [41 favorites]