Next stop, rhabdo city?
November 11, 2011 10:09 AM Subscribe
Is this Crossfit workout absurd?
I'm new to Crossfit. I'm liking it so far, but I understand that there is wide variation from gym to gym in terms of quality and safety. I've just finished my 10 "foundations" workouts, but I'm still not sure where my gym lies on that continuum.
Today my gym's WOD is 4 rounds of 30 "bear complexes". A bear complex is a series of barbell movements - a power clean, leading to a front squat, leading to a push press, leading to a back squat, then finally another push press to get the weight overhead and allow the lifter to repeat the series. Prescribed weight is 95lbs for guys, 65lbs for women. So, that's 120 "complexes", 600 individual lifts - and that comes after a strength workout focusing on cleans.
This sounds, to put it mildly, completely absurd, even with much lower weights than prescribed. But maybe I'm crazy, and this is typical? Anyone have any thoughts?
And, if you think that it is indeed crazy, do you have any recommendations for Crossfit gyms in the DC/Arlington area?
I'm new to Crossfit. I'm liking it so far, but I understand that there is wide variation from gym to gym in terms of quality and safety. I've just finished my 10 "foundations" workouts, but I'm still not sure where my gym lies on that continuum.
Today my gym's WOD is 4 rounds of 30 "bear complexes". A bear complex is a series of barbell movements - a power clean, leading to a front squat, leading to a push press, leading to a back squat, then finally another push press to get the weight overhead and allow the lifter to repeat the series. Prescribed weight is 95lbs for guys, 65lbs for women. So, that's 120 "complexes", 600 individual lifts - and that comes after a strength workout focusing on cleans.
This sounds, to put it mildly, completely absurd, even with much lower weights than prescribed. But maybe I'm crazy, and this is typical? Anyone have any thoughts?
And, if you think that it is indeed crazy, do you have any recommendations for Crossfit gyms in the DC/Arlington area?
It's not absurd, it's just hard and long. Definitely lower the weight if you need to -- scaling is an important principle in CrossFit workouts.
posted by The Tensor at 10:50 AM on November 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 10:50 AM on November 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
As The Tensor says, good CF is all about scaling, and at a good CF gym the coaches will be cognizant of your abilities and help you scale appropriately. Maybe you should only do 4x10, instead of 4x30. Maybe you should lower the weight (do bar-only). Or both. Or use dumbbells instead. There's lot of opportunity for individual adjustment, and that's one of the appeals of CF.
In fact, seeing as you're new, you should definitely be scaling this workout. Ask your coach what he recommends for scaling. If he can't suggest something reasonable, or doesn't care, then find a different gym.
I've been doing CF for >3yrs, and would call myself an intermediate. I'm no crazy firebreather, but that workout, while long, is definitely doable as prescribed for someone who's experienced and knows their abilities and limits.
CF is not a "turn your brain off" activity, you need to be actively engaged in manaing your own fitness.
posted by jpeacock at 11:07 AM on November 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
In fact, seeing as you're new, you should definitely be scaling this workout. Ask your coach what he recommends for scaling. If he can't suggest something reasonable, or doesn't care, then find a different gym.
I've been doing CF for >3yrs, and would call myself an intermediate. I'm no crazy firebreather, but that workout, while long, is definitely doable as prescribed for someone who's experienced and knows their abilities and limits.
CF is not a "turn your brain off" activity, you need to be actively engaged in manaing your own fitness.
posted by jpeacock at 11:07 AM on November 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
You're new to CrossFit. You need to scale the weight. Even if you're a world-class athlete.
I've been doing CrossFit for four years and change. I've done the 5x7 Bear Complex, ramping from 45 pounds to 75 pounds. (That's a 5 rep max of the 7 rep round of the bear complex and I converted the push press/squat combo to a thruster, as the video allows.)
All of the men who can do what you're describing at 95 pounds are people who could compete in CrossFit Games. If you're not a fire breather, just try that with a broomstick or a PVC pipe. Slow and steady wins the race.
Remember the fundamentals. And also remember that your only competition is your own log book.
3, 2, 1 Go.
posted by phoebus at 11:11 AM on November 11, 2011
I've been doing CrossFit for four years and change. I've done the 5x7 Bear Complex, ramping from 45 pounds to 75 pounds. (That's a 5 rep max of the 7 rep round of the bear complex and I converted the push press/squat combo to a thruster, as the video allows.)
All of the men who can do what you're describing at 95 pounds are people who could compete in CrossFit Games. If you're not a fire breather, just try that with a broomstick or a PVC pipe. Slow and steady wins the race.
Remember the fundamentals. And also remember that your only competition is your own log book.
3, 2, 1 Go.
posted by phoebus at 11:11 AM on November 11, 2011
I think it is pretty absurd. A quick google suggests that most Crossfit gyms do 5 rounds of seven bear complexes. Most beginners are doing it with less than 95lbs/65lbs, also.
posted by vorfeed at 11:12 AM on November 11, 2011
posted by vorfeed at 11:12 AM on November 11, 2011
And yes, you can scale the workout down, but a gym where the goals are set through the roof may not be the best match for someone who just started with crossfit.
posted by vorfeed at 11:16 AM on November 11, 2011
posted by vorfeed at 11:16 AM on November 11, 2011
4 rounds of 30 is great if it's a once a month painstorm. That said, a workout like this is more about your mental endurance than anything related to fitness. It's quite probable that a workout like this could be detrimental in the short term to your fitness.
If your coach is having you, as a noob, attempt this with anything more than an empty bar, run like hell. There is a not insignificant percentage of Crossfitters that take 'the hardcore" way too seriously to the point of detriment.
posted by bfranklin at 11:27 AM on November 11, 2011
If your coach is having you, as a noob, attempt this with anything more than an empty bar, run like hell. There is a not insignificant percentage of Crossfitters that take 'the hardcore" way too seriously to the point of detriment.
posted by bfranklin at 11:27 AM on November 11, 2011
My general philosophy on exercise is that you should never push yourself to a degree where you don't know how your body will react. Challenge is good, but you always need to stay away from your edge. If you can't even guess how this will affect you, don't do it. (fwiw, I am a fit woman, and I would be incapacitated by that workout - 65 lbs, really??)
Slow and steady and daily is the key to lifetime health!
posted by yarly at 11:35 AM on November 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Slow and steady and daily is the key to lifetime health!
posted by yarly at 11:35 AM on November 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I ran this by a former coach of mine who said, to paraphrase, that the workout is terrible and a recipe for rhabdo. His recommendation for DC area gyms are: Primal Fitness, Olympus Gym, and Capital Barbell. Primal Fitness is the Crossfit affiliate out of those three.
posted by bfranklin at 12:02 PM on November 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by bfranklin at 12:02 PM on November 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
It would be helpful to know what the parameters for this workout were. Was it 30 in a row without stopping? 5x6 with rest in between? Timed? Makes a TON of difference.
There are some CF workouts that are just crazy (I hate Fran, for example) and seem impossible even with just a PVC bar. It's about challenging yourself, not doing the recommended weight.
posted by mrfuga0 at 12:04 PM on November 11, 2011
There are some CF workouts that are just crazy (I hate Fran, for example) and seem impossible even with just a PVC bar. It's about challenging yourself, not doing the recommended weight.
posted by mrfuga0 at 12:04 PM on November 11, 2011
On reading your question again, here's a thought: why have they described it as 4 rounds of 30 bear complexes instead of just 120 bear complexes? I wonder if this is actually supposed to be a team workout (i.e. multiple people adding up their reps) or something. Did you just see the workout posted on their web site or did you witness it in person?
posted by The Tensor at 12:12 PM on November 11, 2011
posted by The Tensor at 12:12 PM on November 11, 2011
Response by poster: @The Tensor, I think it's because you aren't supposed to release the weight within a round of bear complexes. So, basically, only after completing 30 reps are you allowed to put the bar down.
posted by downing street memo at 12:20 PM on November 11, 2011
posted by downing street memo at 12:20 PM on November 11, 2011
Response by poster: @mrfuga0 - the WOD is timed, yes, and as I mentioned the rules of bear complexes stipulate that you can't set the bar down mid-round. You can stop and rest, but it's not real rest since you've still got the bar in hand.
posted by downing street memo at 12:59 PM on November 11, 2011
posted by downing street memo at 12:59 PM on November 11, 2011
I just watched a video of this, and whoa, did that guy really just lower a loaded bar from overhead lockout down onto his traps? I've never seen anyone do that before. In fact, mostly I see people throw the bar down in front of them, even for warm-up sets at light weight. Is it really safe to try to lower the bar down behind your head?
posted by d. z. wang at 1:14 PM on November 11, 2011
posted by d. z. wang at 1:14 PM on November 11, 2011
Yes, this looks like a very tough WOD. However, if you're at a box even worth half it's salt, they will scale it down in two ways. Less weight, less reps. If you're a gym that pushes you too hard (and only you know the difference between too hard and just hard enough) you're not in the right place for you.
All you need to open a crossfit box is $1k to get your cert, and then $$ to open the gym. You need to make sure that your coaches are qualified to BE coaches. However, seeing that you're doing a foundations program, shows me your box has some good thought put into it.
I wouldn't skip this WOD. I'd go in with a mindset to scaling. Maybe use the 15lb bar? Maybe use a 35lb bar, and only do 2 rounds.
I've been crossfitting for 6 months. for me, (5'4 woman, 165lbs) I'd do this workout either with the 15lb bar completely, OR the women's bar 2 rounds.
posted by thatgirld at 1:58 PM on November 11, 2011
All you need to open a crossfit box is $1k to get your cert, and then $$ to open the gym. You need to make sure that your coaches are qualified to BE coaches. However, seeing that you're doing a foundations program, shows me your box has some good thought put into it.
I wouldn't skip this WOD. I'd go in with a mindset to scaling. Maybe use the 15lb bar? Maybe use a 35lb bar, and only do 2 rounds.
I've been crossfitting for 6 months. for me, (5'4 woman, 165lbs) I'd do this workout either with the 15lb bar completely, OR the women's bar 2 rounds.
posted by thatgirld at 1:58 PM on November 11, 2011
Response by poster: Yeah, I should mention that my box - with some exceptions like the workout above - generally hews to the criteria schroedinger mentioned in a big Crossfit thread last year. At least, the guy who runs the gym does, as well as one other guy, I don't know about the other trainers.
One thing that doesn't happen is that we're not actively instructed if and how we should scale. I don't think anyone would say anything if I decided to go with an unloaded bar or scale to 2 rounds, but at the same time, no one's telling beginners how to change up the workouts. Is that normal?
posted by downing street memo at 2:18 PM on November 11, 2011
One thing that doesn't happen is that we're not actively instructed if and how we should scale. I don't think anyone would say anything if I decided to go with an unloaded bar or scale to 2 rounds, but at the same time, no one's telling beginners how to change up the workouts. Is that normal?
posted by downing street memo at 2:18 PM on November 11, 2011
...no one's telling beginners how to change up the workouts. Is that normal?
At my current CF gym, the trainers regularly warn beginners before a hard WOD that they'll need to scale, often suggesting a specific (and lower) weight or number of rounds. After a while, though, they start to assume you know what you can handle and let you scale for yourself.
posted by The Tensor at 2:33 PM on November 11, 2011
At my current CF gym, the trainers regularly warn beginners before a hard WOD that they'll need to scale, often suggesting a specific (and lower) weight or number of rounds. After a while, though, they start to assume you know what you can handle and let you scale for yourself.
posted by The Tensor at 2:33 PM on November 11, 2011
I just watched a video of this, and whoa, did that guy really just lower a loaded bar from overhead lockout down onto his traps? I've never seen anyone do that before. In fact, mostly I see people throw the bar down in front of them, even for warm-up sets at light weight. Is it really safe to try to lower the bar down behind your head?
That's exactly why I always skipped this one when I was doing xfit-type workouts. If you have any kind of shoulder problems, even tiny little ones, that overhead-to-traps move is killer. In a very bad way. I personally don't think it's good for shoulder health and I would not recommend people bother with this particular workout.
posted by ch1x0r at 2:42 PM on November 11, 2011
That's exactly why I always skipped this one when I was doing xfit-type workouts. If you have any kind of shoulder problems, even tiny little ones, that overhead-to-traps move is killer. In a very bad way. I personally don't think it's good for shoulder health and I would not recommend people bother with this particular workout.
posted by ch1x0r at 2:42 PM on November 11, 2011
"Painstorm" is not a good reason for a workout. One of the downfalls of CF-type programming is that very often trainers default to "painstorm" programming, which isn't actually programming. For an effective workout plan, you want to have general goals and guidelines for each workout beyond "Let's sweat and groan and get chalk all over the floor." An excellent trainer will have a reasonable explanation for why they've chosen each workout, what systems it is addressing, and how this will help the trainee in the long run. Poor trainers and ignorant trainees love "painstorm" programming because they are extremely easy to put together and the trainee comes out feeling tired, giving the impression that they've had a quality workout.
The problem is that tiredness and soreness is not indicative of a quality workout. It does not mean you are getting stronger and fitter in the most efficient manner. It does not mean that the workout you've done is smart and designed to cause the maximum desired effect (whatever that is) with minimal injury. The workout above will make you tired and sore. But the Bear complex involves stringing together a number of technically demanding movements. Without technical proficiency, you're opening yourself up to injury. Hell, even with technical proficiency if you're doing them in sets of thirty I can guarantee you that halfway through your form is going to not just be "I'm tired" crap, it's going to be "I don't actually like my lumbar spine or shoulders, and I am interested in ruining them" crap.
What your coach has done is decide "Hurr hurr hurr, this will make them sore!" is a good rationale for programming. Your coach knows that people at your gym are going to love this workout, because they'll dread it beforehand and feel badass when they finish. And they'll keep coming back for more of that. Your coach probably also knows that this is not actually helping them with their fitness goals, but your coach wants to make money so they've gone for the Sexy MetCon route.
posted by Anonymous at 7:47 PM on November 11, 2011
The problem is that tiredness and soreness is not indicative of a quality workout. It does not mean you are getting stronger and fitter in the most efficient manner. It does not mean that the workout you've done is smart and designed to cause the maximum desired effect (whatever that is) with minimal injury. The workout above will make you tired and sore. But the Bear complex involves stringing together a number of technically demanding movements. Without technical proficiency, you're opening yourself up to injury. Hell, even with technical proficiency if you're doing them in sets of thirty I can guarantee you that halfway through your form is going to not just be "I'm tired" crap, it's going to be "I don't actually like my lumbar spine or shoulders, and I am interested in ruining them" crap.
What your coach has done is decide "Hurr hurr hurr, this will make them sore!" is a good rationale for programming. Your coach knows that people at your gym are going to love this workout, because they'll dread it beforehand and feel badass when they finish. And they'll keep coming back for more of that. Your coach probably also knows that this is not actually helping them with their fitness goals, but your coach wants to make money so they've gone for the Sexy MetCon route.
posted by Anonymous at 7:47 PM on November 11, 2011
There are a million different ways to do anaerobic and aerobic conditioning effectively, and most of these ways are stupid simple. Using the most technical barbell lifts possible, however, isn't. Frankly, some of the WoDs are almost perverse: it's as if someone dared them to create the most injury potential in a single workout.
If you want HIIT, sprint hills, flip tires, swing a sledge, bust your ass on an airdyne, beat up a heavy bag, push a prowler, or do some random combination of burpees, pushups, and bodyweight squats. Hell, you could just run a mile or two at the fastest pace you can handle a couple of times per week, and unless you are training for a sporting event, that is all the conditioning you will likely ever need.
Like schroedinger mentions, you need to know what the hell a workout is for before doing it. Being "hardcore" ain't good or specific enough.
posted by Theodore Sign at 1:26 AM on November 13, 2011
If you want HIIT, sprint hills, flip tires, swing a sledge, bust your ass on an airdyne, beat up a heavy bag, push a prowler, or do some random combination of burpees, pushups, and bodyweight squats. Hell, you could just run a mile or two at the fastest pace you can handle a couple of times per week, and unless you are training for a sporting event, that is all the conditioning you will likely ever need.
Like schroedinger mentions, you need to know what the hell a workout is for before doing it. Being "hardcore" ain't good or specific enough.
posted by Theodore Sign at 1:26 AM on November 13, 2011
no one's telling beginners how to change up the workouts. Is that normal?
What, exactly, are you paying for then? Admission fees? No, this is not normal, and I'd go so far as to call it negligent.
posted by bfranklin at 5:46 PM on November 13, 2011
What, exactly, are you paying for then? Admission fees? No, this is not normal, and I'd go so far as to call it negligent.
posted by bfranklin at 5:46 PM on November 13, 2011
Response by poster: So, even though no one's reading this anymore, I wanted to vent a little.
Taking what seems to be the consensus advice from mefites with knowledge of fitness outside crossfit, I decided to just drop it and keep going to my "Globo-Gym" instead. (To those who suggested alternatives - they all look awesome, but I don't have a car, and all of those are far enough from my transit options to make joining infeasible). Before crossfit I was following a Starting Strength-esque plan of big lifts, along with alternating steady state and HIIT cardio on my off-days from lifting. I started back on that this morning.
I had a decent workout, although nothing like the complete mental exhaustion that comes at the end of a crossfit workout. What was also missing, though, was the intensity: everyone in there looks as though they couldn't care less about what they were doing; terrible form abounded (ironically, there was a crossfit type workout going on in one of the group rooms, complete with people doing KB swings in a way that seems guaranteed to throw out their lower back). After a month of crossfit it was seriously painful to be in there. I mean, say what you want about the crossfit culture and the idiocy of the training, but the people who go there are intense about fitness in a way that is downright addictive, and the return to apathy was pretty jarring.
Anyway, now I'm sitting here thinking: there's a valuable market niche here, men and women in their late 20's/early 30's with disposable income and a desire - maybe an unarticulated one - for intense training. Why is it that this group is so underserved, and when it is served, it's often by fitness hucksters?
posted by downing street memo at 8:25 AM on November 14, 2011
Taking what seems to be the consensus advice from mefites with knowledge of fitness outside crossfit, I decided to just drop it and keep going to my "Globo-Gym" instead. (To those who suggested alternatives - they all look awesome, but I don't have a car, and all of those are far enough from my transit options to make joining infeasible). Before crossfit I was following a Starting Strength-esque plan of big lifts, along with alternating steady state and HIIT cardio on my off-days from lifting. I started back on that this morning.
I had a decent workout, although nothing like the complete mental exhaustion that comes at the end of a crossfit workout. What was also missing, though, was the intensity: everyone in there looks as though they couldn't care less about what they were doing; terrible form abounded (ironically, there was a crossfit type workout going on in one of the group rooms, complete with people doing KB swings in a way that seems guaranteed to throw out their lower back). After a month of crossfit it was seriously painful to be in there. I mean, say what you want about the crossfit culture and the idiocy of the training, but the people who go there are intense about fitness in a way that is downright addictive, and the return to apathy was pretty jarring.
Anyway, now I'm sitting here thinking: there's a valuable market niche here, men and women in their late 20's/early 30's with disposable income and a desire - maybe an unarticulated one - for intense training. Why is it that this group is so underserved, and when it is served, it's often by fitness hucksters?
posted by downing street memo at 8:25 AM on November 14, 2011
Anyway, now I'm sitting here thinking: there's a valuable market niche here, men and women in their late 20's/early 30's with disposable income and a desire - maybe an unarticulated one - for intense training. Why is it that this group is so underserved, and when it is served, it's often by fitness hucksters?
Because the gyms that serve people that aren't run by fitness hucksters have been historically garage-based, underground-type affairs. Think old powerlifting, strongman, and bodybuilding gyms. Gyms that are full of people who society thinks of as big, scary, stupid, and on 'roids. The inhabitants of these gyms naturally assumed that the general population wasn't really interested in their type of training, so they don't market it and create their own culture within their gyms. Not to mention most of the guys running these gyms start them out of love and lack the business background to market themselves appropriately.
If Crossfit has taught the strength-and-conditioning world anything, it's that there is a hunger out there for intense training and there are people outside that small niche who want access to free weights, Olympic lifting, kettlebells, whatever. Now you're seeing some of these old-time gyms start to reinvent themselves to accommodate this demographic as well as younger businesspeople starting up their own "serious training" gyms with an eye towards the business side of things as well. Though a lot of these guys end up getting a CF certification solely to be able to attach the name and the money they hope it will bring to their gym.
A couple more suggestions: if your normal SS/HIIT stuff bores you and you don't have specific training goals (i.e. with a mind towards a competition or whatnot), maybe consider following Crossfit Football. They're decent workouts and satisfy a strength-training component along with an ever-changing metcon.
Two, if you're looking for similar-minded people with training intensity, consider getting involved in some kind of athletic competition, whether it's Olympic lifting, powerlifting, rugby, running, triathlons, strongman, whatever you favor, and find people in your area who do that, then train with them.
Finally, I can't believe I forgot about The Edge, this is a strongman group run out of a Crossfit gym. I don't know about the CF gym itself, but the guy who runs The Edge is a good dude. It's in Herndon, VA, that might be too out of your way.
posted by Anonymous at 2:24 PM on November 14, 2011
Because the gyms that serve people that aren't run by fitness hucksters have been historically garage-based, underground-type affairs. Think old powerlifting, strongman, and bodybuilding gyms. Gyms that are full of people who society thinks of as big, scary, stupid, and on 'roids. The inhabitants of these gyms naturally assumed that the general population wasn't really interested in their type of training, so they don't market it and create their own culture within their gyms. Not to mention most of the guys running these gyms start them out of love and lack the business background to market themselves appropriately.
If Crossfit has taught the strength-and-conditioning world anything, it's that there is a hunger out there for intense training and there are people outside that small niche who want access to free weights, Olympic lifting, kettlebells, whatever. Now you're seeing some of these old-time gyms start to reinvent themselves to accommodate this demographic as well as younger businesspeople starting up their own "serious training" gyms with an eye towards the business side of things as well. Though a lot of these guys end up getting a CF certification solely to be able to attach the name and the money they hope it will bring to their gym.
A couple more suggestions: if your normal SS/HIIT stuff bores you and you don't have specific training goals (i.e. with a mind towards a competition or whatnot), maybe consider following Crossfit Football. They're decent workouts and satisfy a strength-training component along with an ever-changing metcon.
Two, if you're looking for similar-minded people with training intensity, consider getting involved in some kind of athletic competition, whether it's Olympic lifting, powerlifting, rugby, running, triathlons, strongman, whatever you favor, and find people in your area who do that, then train with them.
Finally, I can't believe I forgot about The Edge, this is a strongman group run out of a Crossfit gym. I don't know about the CF gym itself, but the guy who runs The Edge is a good dude. It's in Herndon, VA, that might be too out of your way.
posted by Anonymous at 2:24 PM on November 14, 2011
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I think Primal Fitness is supposed to be good and a quick look at their WODs indicates someone is putting through into them. I haven't been there myself though. I know the guys at CF South Baltimore and they're smart and more familiar with the DC gyms. You could email them and ask for recommendations?
posted by Anonymous at 10:24 AM on November 11, 2011