Cat brothers suddenly at war Help
November 4, 2011 3:54 PM Subscribe
SOS to cat behaviorists out there! My friend has a serious issue that we are trying to solve:
3 cats—brothers—born 2008. Never separated. Loving, cuddly, sleep curled together UNTIL early this spring one day all of them were sitting in peace before an open window and suddenly and completely went Bill the Cat Batshit and viciously started all out screaming catfight. They were separated for 2 wks at recommendation of vet and seemed to forget about it, resumed loving brotherly behavior but THEN 3 mos later 2 were sitting in front of window and again Total Feline Warfare—clawing, screeching, and spraying. This time it took 3 mos of separation plus application of feline pheromone diffusers in 3rd month. September and October civil relations resumed with cuddly cosleeping. Yesterday NO window open. Total screeching warfare with clawing and spraying. All have been neutered since kittenhood.
Have any of you guys any insights? WTF is going on? How can it be prevented or stopped? Massive spraying catfights which taint the environment are not tolerable as an ongoing situation. They also go off on humans trying to intervene.
Have any of you guys any insights? WTF is going on? How can it be prevented or stopped? Massive spraying catfights which taint the environment are not tolerable as an ongoing situation. They also go off on humans trying to intervene.
No answers but we once had half a dozen cats, all related, and life was purry until Jaygee, a younger neutered male, went ballistic a few times. Our local vet who knew all our cats determined that Jaygee's behaviour was caused by a brain tumor, a diagnosis verified after he put him down.
posted by the fish at 4:12 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by the fish at 4:12 PM on November 4, 2011
Yeah, I would just start using the Feliway diffuser(s) full-time for several months and see if that helps. Check the packaging and get an appropriate number for the size of your home.
Also, we really can't answer this sort of question without pictures of the cats in question.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:13 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Also, we really can't answer this sort of question without pictures of the cats in question.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:13 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Isn't Feliway a "feline pheromone diffuser"? Not working per the OP.
I'm going to guess that this is a sound trigger. Could be a bird or other animal that they can see, as well, but see the "cat attacked me/spouse because of baby/laughing sound" threads.
If this isn't acceptable, they'll need to be kept separated or someone has to go live elsewhere. There's not any long-term drugs you can give cats that won't destroy their livers or kidneys, and when a cat redlines like that you can't get their attention with water or a noise (nor should you approach them).
Some cats just turn back into predators at certain triggers. It's hard to get *all* the cat out of a cat.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:19 PM on November 4, 2011
I'm going to guess that this is a sound trigger. Could be a bird or other animal that they can see, as well, but see the "cat attacked me/spouse because of baby/laughing sound" threads.
If this isn't acceptable, they'll need to be kept separated or someone has to go live elsewhere. There's not any long-term drugs you can give cats that won't destroy their livers or kidneys, and when a cat redlines like that you can't get their attention with water or a noise (nor should you approach them).
Some cats just turn back into predators at certain triggers. It's hard to get *all* the cat out of a cat.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:19 PM on November 4, 2011
This happened with our two cats, together for 10 years. We turned the house into a windowless cave, put multiple diffusers in, constantly calmed and soothed them, distracted and separated them when tensions rose, etc. Nothing stopped it. We had to permanently separate them. I hope you have better luck.
The phrase you want to be Googling is "redirected aggression."
posted by moira at 4:27 PM on November 4, 2011
The phrase you want to be Googling is "redirected aggression."
posted by moira at 4:27 PM on November 4, 2011
This happens to cats when they sit together next to an open window or screen door. One or both of the cats will see something outside that freaks them out or puts them on paranoid edge, and suddenly that FURRY THING SITTING NEXT TO ME WTF IS THAT ARE YOU WHAT'S FREAKING ME OUT *hissss* *scratch* this means WAR. FIGHT!!
Do you have calming or stop commands? You might just want to monitor them and try to preempt the fighting by making them think twice when you can see their cat brain telling them to pounce by lettin them know it's not cool by you. Also, remind them who is sitting next to them as they stare out the window, that it's their brother and that they're friends.
posted by jabberjaw at 4:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Do you have calming or stop commands? You might just want to monitor them and try to preempt the fighting by making them think twice when you can see their cat brain telling them to pounce by lettin them know it's not cool by you. Also, remind them who is sitting next to them as they stare out the window, that it's their brother and that they're friends.
posted by jabberjaw at 4:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Understandably cats like to look out a window. But if a window (open or closed) triggers mayhem, I would rearrange things to make it impossible for them to sit and look out any window. And wait and see if that resolves the situation.
posted by exphysicist345 at 5:08 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by exphysicist345 at 5:08 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
We have three cats and that has happened a couple of times. It turns out a neighbor's outdoor cat was sauntering by their window, essentially teasing them. Since they couldn't get to that cat, they turned on each other. I put an end to it by dumping a cold glass of water on them - it seemed to take them out of the moment- then closed the window. Within hours they returned to their usual selves (they were still a little uptight so they got kitty segregated). There wasn't any spraying though.
I understand the vet recommended the separation, but I wonder if it compounded the problem. During the three month break, were they still seeing each other?
posted by valoius at 6:36 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I understand the vet recommended the separation, but I wonder if it compounded the problem. During the three month break, were they still seeing each other?
posted by valoius at 6:36 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
If the window was open if they could see or even smell another male cats that had marked its turf out there it would make them a lot more likely to react without thinking to another cat suddenly coming up behind them. A neighbours male cat simply spraying in the garden outside the house where my friends cat could smell it (even though it was so faint she couldn't) made her indoor cat crazy and he would spray everything and dab at our legs viciously. A plug in pheromone thingy on all the time really helped. Remember cats have amazing senses of smell and can smell things even if windows are closed. If it's always the same window find a way to keep them away from it and keep it closed so they can't see anything that would bother them and maybe keep one of the diffusers by the trouble spot.
I am assuming both cats are desexed/neutered? While it won't stop cats spraying it can quieten some of the territorial aggression.
Water is a great way to break up a cat fight without getting hurt, either tip a glass on them or spray them with a hose/spray bottle or throw a blanket over them. Don't get your hand in there while they are still fighting you will get hurt.
If the same cat is starting things everytime it might be worth getting him checked out by a vet, cats are good at hiding pain and can over react if startled while hurting or maybe his eyesight is going so he gets frighted quicker or any number of medical reasons. Though you did say a vet suggested separation so you may have already considered this.
posted by wwax at 7:10 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am assuming both cats are desexed/neutered? While it won't stop cats spraying it can quieten some of the territorial aggression.
Water is a great way to break up a cat fight without getting hurt, either tip a glass on them or spray them with a hose/spray bottle or throw a blanket over them. Don't get your hand in there while they are still fighting you will get hurt.
If the same cat is starting things everytime it might be worth getting him checked out by a vet, cats are good at hiding pain and can over react if startled while hurting or maybe his eyesight is going so he gets frighted quicker or any number of medical reasons. Though you did say a vet suggested separation so you may have already considered this.
posted by wwax at 7:10 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I recommended Composure Cat Treats so much you'd think I'm a company rep but I'm just actually a very happy owner of a formerly uptight cat. I give one dog-sized treat to her a day broken into bite sized portions. I was skeptical about it (herbal remedies seem hit or miss sometimes) but it mellowed out her anxious and occasionally aggressive behavior and she is much happier in general. She loves them and will remind me if I forget them. It took me about a month to see the full effect I think. Giving it to both your cats may allow them to deal with whatever is stressing them a bit better.
You could also try rewarding prosocial behavior from your cats with treats. Google clicker training for more specific instructions but by rewarding the behavior you'd rather see you'll see more of that and optimistically less of the spitting and fighting. After a grand battle start rewarding successively more appropriate behavior and that may ease things faster too. They can't be nice (and earning treats) and nasty to each other at the same time!
posted by gilsonal at 7:34 PM on November 4, 2011
You could also try rewarding prosocial behavior from your cats with treats. Google clicker training for more specific instructions but by rewarding the behavior you'd rather see you'll see more of that and optimistically less of the spitting and fighting. After a grand battle start rewarding successively more appropriate behavior and that may ease things faster too. They can't be nice (and earning treats) and nasty to each other at the same time!
posted by gilsonal at 7:34 PM on November 4, 2011
I once witnessed our five cats, all sitting, shoulder to shoulder at the door watching a bird, suddenly go rolling across the room in a blur of claws, fur, and screaming for five minutes, it was like watching a cartoon cat fight. It took forever for there to be peace again.
Cats don't handle tension well, that outside distraction can be a huge catalyst. Make it so they can't look outside for a while...
And, cat fights in homes with multiple cats are just gonna happen.....
posted by HuronBob at 7:35 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Cats don't handle tension well, that outside distraction can be a huge catalyst. Make it so they can't look outside for a while...
And, cat fights in homes with multiple cats are just gonna happen.....
posted by HuronBob at 7:35 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is going to seem weird, but I think they need to add a fourth cat - preferably a late altered female.
Why do I recommend this? Partially because when you add a new cat to the mix, you change the dynamic of the group. Cats that were angry can become calm, calm cats can become more playful. Also, calm cats can become aggressive, so it's not a sure cure.
Secondly, when you add a female cat to the mix, the male cats will approach her either as a mommy-type figure or as a potential mate (even if they're neutered). As she's been fixed, no matter what their attitude is, her approach will most like turn to "I am the queen and you will all obey". They need a change in leadership and that's pretty much what she'll become. It's sort of a cat-on-cat harem sort of situation.
A good cat shelter can help pick out a cat that will be good with other cats. And if anything goes wrong, will let you return her.
posted by fiercekitten at 8:46 PM on November 4, 2011
Why do I recommend this? Partially because when you add a new cat to the mix, you change the dynamic of the group. Cats that were angry can become calm, calm cats can become more playful. Also, calm cats can become aggressive, so it's not a sure cure.
Secondly, when you add a female cat to the mix, the male cats will approach her either as a mommy-type figure or as a potential mate (even if they're neutered). As she's been fixed, no matter what their attitude is, her approach will most like turn to "I am the queen and you will all obey". They need a change in leadership and that's pretty much what she'll become. It's sort of a cat-on-cat harem sort of situation.
A good cat shelter can help pick out a cat that will be good with other cats. And if anything goes wrong, will let you return her.
posted by fiercekitten at 8:46 PM on November 4, 2011
Yes, Lynn Never, Jabberjaw, valoius, etc. have it exactly right. I had two loving, older, neutered brothers (and one alpha spayed female). They always curled up together and loved to sit in the windows together, but when I moved to a basement apartment and the windows were only slightly higher than ground level, every once in a while my sweetest most docile Sam would become feline fury and try to completely murder his brother Harry, blood and fur flying. It was always because another cat was sauntering around outside. I would have to separate them for an hour or so until Sam would resume his normal personality, and until Harry would become less skittish. I moved out of that apartment and they never fought like that again.
If it's one particular window that seems to set them off, maybe close it off? Put up some kind of window treatment or translucent effect so they can't see out. I don't think it needs to be open, just the view has to be triggery.
If that fails, well. They may need to be separated.
posted by clone boulevard at 9:28 PM on November 4, 2011
If it's one particular window that seems to set them off, maybe close it off? Put up some kind of window treatment or translucent effect so they can't see out. I don't think it needs to be open, just the view has to be triggery.
If that fails, well. They may need to be separated.
posted by clone boulevard at 9:28 PM on November 4, 2011
I have a similar problem. I just ask them nicely to stop. Sometimes it takes 2 weeks of asking them nicely to "cut it the fuck out" but eventually all the nice asking and the extra treats works.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:58 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:58 PM on November 4, 2011
In cat society, territory operates like a timeshare. For my 3 kitties, the choice spot is on top of the cable box because it emits heat. Every cat takes his or her turn on the cable box throughout the day. Although there are 3-4 other great nesting locations, fights only occur over this one spot.
It might alleviate some of the friction if you could create some additional timeshare locations. Other windows, snuggly nooks, donut beds, high locations made comfortable with a cushion all work well.
posted by Seppaku at 9:40 AM on November 5, 2011
It might alleviate some of the friction if you could create some additional timeshare locations. Other windows, snuggly nooks, donut beds, high locations made comfortable with a cushion all work well.
posted by Seppaku at 9:40 AM on November 5, 2011
You know, sometimes cats do this. One of them pisses the other(s) off and they have a scrap. It's perfectly normal and you shouldn't treat it like they need a course of therapy every time it happens. They're cats. They'll spit, claw and fight sometimes.
posted by Decani at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by Decani at 10:04 AM on November 5, 2011
jabberjaw: "Also, remind them who is sitting next to them as they stare out the window, that it's their brother and that they're friends."
How would you go about doing this? I wasn't aware that cats listen to reason.
Perhaps they listen, but I'm not sure they take it under advisement.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:44 PM on November 5, 2011
How would you go about doing this? I wasn't aware that cats listen to reason.
Perhaps they listen, but I'm not sure they take it under advisement.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:44 PM on November 5, 2011
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posted by TryTheTilapia at 3:58 PM on November 4, 2011