Two questions about stoner music:
November 3, 2011 11:30 AM Subscribe
1. Can anyone tell me of musical traditions (outside of the obvious-rock, hip-hop, reggae, etc.) in which psychedelic drugs & marijuana are supposed to inform the listener's interpretation of the music?
2. Are there any fans of improvised music that comes from outside of the US/European tradition? Can someone point me to some amazing African or Indian jams?
You might be interested in gnawa music.
(And, at the risk of saying something obvious, the 'stoner' is mostly a Western thing.)
posted by box at 11:45 AM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
(And, at the risk of saying something obvious, the 'stoner' is mostly a Western thing.)
posted by box at 11:45 AM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Ambient music could fit the bill. I am thinking along the terms of:
Do Make Say Think
Tortoise (not always ambient, but I certainly enjoy it while medicated)
Years
Album Leaf
Ratatat
/not all these are necessarily drug influenced (some have the names, Im thinking DMST Dr. Hooch, and Highway420). I can confirm that they sound awesome, both on or off of chemical influence.
posted by handbanana at 11:56 AM on November 3, 2011
Do Make Say Think
Tortoise (not always ambient, but I certainly enjoy it while medicated)
Years
Album Leaf
Ratatat
/not all these are necessarily drug influenced (some have the names, Im thinking DMST Dr. Hooch, and Highway420). I can confirm that they sound awesome, both on or off of chemical influence.
posted by handbanana at 11:56 AM on November 3, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses so far. Can anyone tell me of stuff from Africa or Asia?
posted by shushufindi at 12:04 PM on November 3, 2011
posted by shushufindi at 12:04 PM on November 3, 2011
Best answer: Well, there's a difference between music that's good on drugs and music that's intended to be used in tandem with drugs as part of a particular cultural experience. What we call "psychedelic" music based on superficial characteristics alone might actually be highly spiritual/sacred or political/radical elsewhere, and I'm not sure the creators of such music would be thrilled with the association. You could certainly have a good time with the music of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan or Group Doueh or Hamed al-Sa'adi or Mustapha Baqbou or possibly even Tinariwen, but I'd shy far away from calling it stoner music per se.
posted by mykescipark at 12:10 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 12:10 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I guess my question was more specific...
I'd think that in places where cannabis & hallucinogens have been in use for a long time, there have been musical traditions that deliberately include its influence. I want to know of those traditions.
posted by shushufindi at 12:19 PM on November 3, 2011
I'd think that in places where cannabis & hallucinogens have been in use for a long time, there have been musical traditions that deliberately include its influence. I want to know of those traditions.
posted by shushufindi at 12:19 PM on November 3, 2011
There's also psy-trance which came out of Indian and Israeli beach parties. That link is to beatport's psytrance section, which should connect you to the new stuff, but they've been making psytrance and goa trance since the early 90s.
posted by empath at 12:37 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by empath at 12:37 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Before there was reggae, there was Nyahbinghi drumming/chanting.
posted by box at 12:42 PM on November 3, 2011
posted by box at 12:42 PM on November 3, 2011
Well, khat is a popular narcotic around the Horn of Africa. I can't find any specific reference to its use in music, but it is known to have a place in rituals, so perhaps you could extrapolate to some degree. You could check out the trance chant on Smithsonian Folkways' Folk Songs and Ceremonies of Ethiopia. Folkways has a significant archive of African folkloric and ritual music from this and other parts of East Africa. I am unclear on the official position of Islam regarding khat, so I would not assume it is widely used in the region's Muslim ceremonies and rituals. (Certain segments of the Muslim community in Somalia have called for a ban on khat.)
posted by mykescipark at 1:46 PM on November 3, 2011
posted by mykescipark at 1:46 PM on November 3, 2011
Ambient music could fit the bill.
None of those bands are Ambient. They are "Post Rock." "Ambient" music is a different genre altogether, and I wouldn't say that either is informed by drugs.
Harlem-style big band era music from African American bands often had a lot to do with drugs, though pot wasn't exactly considered a drug back then.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 3:16 PM on November 3, 2011
None of those bands are Ambient. They are "Post Rock." "Ambient" music is a different genre altogether, and I wouldn't say that either is informed by drugs.
Harlem-style big band era music from African American bands often had a lot to do with drugs, though pot wasn't exactly considered a drug back then.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 3:16 PM on November 3, 2011
W/r/t gnawa (also gnaoua or gnoua), I would like to remark that it is not a substance-using tradition (although hashish seems to be tolerated if you roll that way). The night ceremonies, or "layla," in addition to being social and celebratory occasions serve as a psychic crux for the community in which the trance-inducing music and dancing, experienced for 10-12 hours, exorcise the "demons" and allow waking society to sail along at a smoother pitch. The music is the drug, and the leader of the band has 'witch doctor' (or, Jerry Springer) -like powers of emotional catharsis inducement. Interesingly, in the Marrakesh community I visited, Muslim beliefs are completely integrated with gnawa to the point that layla will be halted to observe the night and dawn call-to-prayer.
For the 'stoner' tradition of Morocco you would move north and east to the Rif mountains, and their most famous band, the Master Musicians of JouJouka.
Here is a label, SubRosa with an awesome collection of field recordings, which include expamples of both (in addition to some other interesting stuff!)
W/r/t 2., I can't quite parse whether you mean improv like crazy downtown Zorn-like or improv like Jerry Garcia noodling away for hours. If the latter, do you know much of contemporary Nigerian music? My New Fuji Garbage ... let me show it to you.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 3:51 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
For the 'stoner' tradition of Morocco you would move north and east to the Rif mountains, and their most famous band, the Master Musicians of JouJouka.
Here is a label, SubRosa with an awesome collection of field recordings, which include expamples of both (in addition to some other interesting stuff!)
W/r/t 2., I can't quite parse whether you mean improv like crazy downtown Zorn-like or improv like Jerry Garcia noodling away for hours. If the latter, do you know much of contemporary Nigerian music? My New Fuji Garbage ... let me show it to you.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 3:51 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
You might be interested in peyote ceremony music. It's really not particularly psychedelic sounding, though. My very vague and possibly misinformed understanding is that it's meant to keep people grounded and not send them flying further off into space.
The thing is, I think for many people, playing ecstatic music and taking drugs is sort of overkill. If the music's good enough and you're uninhibited about singing and dancing in public, you really don't need drugs at all.
My pet theory is that the two are associated in the U.S. because dancing is basically a subcultural thing for most white Americans. As individuals we might decide that dancing ourselves into an ecstatic state is really important — but we've still got our mainstream upbringing telling us that going all-out on the dance floor is silly and undignified, or pretentious and show-off-y, so we use chemicals to facilitate the experience we want to have. And sure, tripping while dancing does deepen the experience. But just dancing harder also deepens the experience, if you can bring yourself to do that sober, and so it's not surprising that in a lot of places the standard approach is just dance harder.
Oh gawd I sound like an anti-drug PSA. Look, whatever, it's not like I haven't been known to partake myself. I'm just saying the association between drugs, dancing and jam-type music is less universally necessary than you might think.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:27 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
The thing is, I think for many people, playing ecstatic music and taking drugs is sort of overkill. If the music's good enough and you're uninhibited about singing and dancing in public, you really don't need drugs at all.
My pet theory is that the two are associated in the U.S. because dancing is basically a subcultural thing for most white Americans. As individuals we might decide that dancing ourselves into an ecstatic state is really important — but we've still got our mainstream upbringing telling us that going all-out on the dance floor is silly and undignified, or pretentious and show-off-y, so we use chemicals to facilitate the experience we want to have. And sure, tripping while dancing does deepen the experience. But just dancing harder also deepens the experience, if you can bring yourself to do that sober, and so it's not surprising that in a lot of places the standard approach is just dance harder.
Oh gawd I sound like an anti-drug PSA. Look, whatever, it's not like I haven't been known to partake myself. I'm just saying the association between drugs, dancing and jam-type music is less universally necessary than you might think.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:27 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Had the pleasure of seeing Tejendra Majumdar while incredibly baked. Not sure if cannabis is involved in the Indian classical tradition (was it?), but this show was just pure, intense, focused pleasure. I know you could say that I'm somehow cheapening the experience, or that by getting high before going I'm somehow transposing some contemporary 'stoner' viewpoint where it shouldn't be transposed, but still. You can't argue with ecstatic experience.
To answer your question, Rube R. Nekker, I guess I'm thinking more of Jerry improv than Zorn, though Jerry definitely has had his Zorn moments. I'm not just talking about listening and dancing. Something about a really good pot high can really get me focused for hours on the complex interplay between musicians. I'm not a big pot smoker outside of going to concerts. Seriously!
posted by shushufindi at 6:34 PM on November 3, 2011
To answer your question, Rube R. Nekker, I guess I'm thinking more of Jerry improv than Zorn, though Jerry definitely has had his Zorn moments. I'm not just talking about listening and dancing. Something about a really good pot high can really get me focused for hours on the complex interplay between musicians. I'm not a big pot smoker outside of going to concerts. Seriously!
posted by shushufindi at 6:34 PM on November 3, 2011
Right, no, I really wasn't trying to criticize you at all and I'm sorry if it sounded that way.
I guess I was reacting to the two-part-ness of the question. You wanted awesome jam music on the one hand, and psychedelically-informed music on the other. It sounded like you were expecting the two to show up in the same places. So I wanted to point out that often they don't — but maybe you already knew that already.
Seriously, I don't think you're "cheapening" anything by listening to it high — even if the original audience were complete hardass teetotalers — and I'm totally in favor of whatever ecstatic experience works for you. Just started blathering on about armchair musicology and got carried away is all.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:54 PM on November 3, 2011
I guess I was reacting to the two-part-ness of the question. You wanted awesome jam music on the one hand, and psychedelically-informed music on the other. It sounded like you were expecting the two to show up in the same places. So I wanted to point out that often they don't — but maybe you already knew that already.
Seriously, I don't think you're "cheapening" anything by listening to it high — even if the original audience were complete hardass teetotalers — and I'm totally in favor of whatever ecstatic experience works for you. Just started blathering on about armchair musicology and got carried away is all.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:54 PM on November 3, 2011
How about Steve Reich: Music for 18 Musicians
or Terry Riley: In C. They're both trance-inducing for me.
posted by chocolatepeanutbuttercup at 2:38 PM on November 4, 2011
or Terry Riley: In C. They're both trance-inducing for me.
posted by chocolatepeanutbuttercup at 2:38 PM on November 4, 2011
ZOMG I think you would dig everything in this playlist I just found.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 9:37 PM on November 15, 2011
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 9:37 PM on November 15, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by empath at 11:39 AM on November 3, 2011