How are gas prices determined in the US?
June 10, 2005 9:52 PM Subscribe
Does anyone know what specific factors go into determining the retail price of gasoline in the US?
I looked through earlier threads which touched on the way a retailer determines its price once it purchases the gasoline from a distributor, but I still have absolutely no concrete idea why gas prices go up and down. I know OPEC has a lot to do with it, and of course supply and demand (as with any other good or service), but the whole process seems shrouded in mystery.
Can anyone explain it to me in layman's terms?
I looked through earlier threads which touched on the way a retailer determines its price once it purchases the gasoline from a distributor, but I still have absolutely no concrete idea why gas prices go up and down. I know OPEC has a lot to do with it, and of course supply and demand (as with any other good or service), but the whole process seems shrouded in mystery.
Can anyone explain it to me in layman's terms?
<not being helpful>
Colusion and what the market will bear?
</not being helpful>
posted by PurplePorpoise at 11:29 PM on June 10, 2005
Colusion and what the market will bear?
</not being helpful>
posted by PurplePorpoise at 11:29 PM on June 10, 2005
(1) What they pay for gas, which is its own kettle of fish. The concerns iwouldificould brings up go here; AFAIK the big thing as far as formulation goes is compliance with clean(ish) air laws.
(2) Time cost. Making a $0.10/gallon profit today might be better than making a $0.11/gallon profit next week.
(3) What they think they can get for it. More than simple supply-and-demand -- then we'd expect gas prices to just be the marginal cost of gas. There are collusive games that happen all the time. I raise the price on my gas by $0.10/gallon, and sometimes the station across the street does too, and we both make big bucks that day. Other times the station across the street doesn't, and I drop my price again later that day, or other times they raise their prices by $0.08/gallon, or do so for a while and then drop them again, whatever.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:29 PM on June 10, 2005
(2) Time cost. Making a $0.10/gallon profit today might be better than making a $0.11/gallon profit next week.
(3) What they think they can get for it. More than simple supply-and-demand -- then we'd expect gas prices to just be the marginal cost of gas. There are collusive games that happen all the time. I raise the price on my gas by $0.10/gallon, and sometimes the station across the street does too, and we both make big bucks that day. Other times the station across the street doesn't, and I drop my price again later that day, or other times they raise their prices by $0.08/gallon, or do so for a while and then drop them again, whatever.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:29 PM on June 10, 2005
I don't know a whole lot about the subject, but someone I know at an oil refinery in Texas told me something interesting. He said that they (Diamon Shamrock) refine sour crude oil, where most refineries refine sweet crude. He says that sour is much cheaper, and more plentiful currently, and that they could charge alot less for their gas than they do, but the market sets the price. Apparently a sweet refinery can not refine sour crude, and vice versa, and that building new factories is expensive.
I realize this doesn't really answer your question, but I found it interesting none-the-less.
posted by Espoo2 at 11:35 PM on June 10, 2005
I realize this doesn't really answer your question, but I found it interesting none-the-less.
posted by Espoo2 at 11:35 PM on June 10, 2005
Response by poster: Espoo2, actually, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for - all the little arcane factors that determine the price of oil, and then how the price of oil correlates to the price of gas (I think I read in another AskMe thread that there's a delay of about 6 months between a fluctuation in oil price and a resultant fluctuation in gas prices, for example).
The collusion angle is interesting as well. I always wonder who actually gets to set the price in a non-franchise station, whether it's handed down from Corporate or up to the manager's discretion. Anyone know?
posted by pikachulolita at 11:51 PM on June 10, 2005
The collusion angle is interesting as well. I always wonder who actually gets to set the price in a non-franchise station, whether it's handed down from Corporate or up to the manager's discretion. Anyone know?
posted by pikachulolita at 11:51 PM on June 10, 2005
Refinery capacity seems to have the most impact on day-to-day prices. Whenever there is a refinery fire or a facility runs into unexpected problems, the gas prices in the regional area are almost immediately impacted. You will see stories like this every time a refinery accident makes the news.
Moreover, taxes are a very large part of gas prices. In 2002, gasoline taxes averaged $0.42 per gallon across the US according to the California Energy Commission.
Individual states might also regulate the market to a great extent. In Louisiana, for example, retailers are required to sell gas at a 6% markup. See this article for more background.
Finally, for most oil-company owned stores (ExxonMobil, BP, Chevron, etc.), the price at the pump is set by a regional or district office and that consideration, in large part, depends on brand protection (don't want to sell cheaper than no-name gas) and what the market will handle. If you live near a gas station, watch carefully when prices are changed during the day (right after rush hour if they are going down and before if they are going up) and the week (they will always go up right before the weekend and are generally lowered in the middle of the week). Chart the prices in your area and you will likely start to see a pattern emerge after a few weeks.
posted by ajr at 4:55 AM on June 11, 2005
Moreover, taxes are a very large part of gas prices. In 2002, gasoline taxes averaged $0.42 per gallon across the US according to the California Energy Commission.
Individual states might also regulate the market to a great extent. In Louisiana, for example, retailers are required to sell gas at a 6% markup. See this article for more background.
Finally, for most oil-company owned stores (ExxonMobil, BP, Chevron, etc.), the price at the pump is set by a regional or district office and that consideration, in large part, depends on brand protection (don't want to sell cheaper than no-name gas) and what the market will handle. If you live near a gas station, watch carefully when prices are changed during the day (right after rush hour if they are going down and before if they are going up) and the week (they will always go up right before the weekend and are generally lowered in the middle of the week). Chart the prices in your area and you will likely start to see a pattern emerge after a few weeks.
posted by ajr at 4:55 AM on June 11, 2005
ajr is close ... i used to work at a family owned franchised shell station in the midwest ... the price of gas would be called into us daily by the distributor
there's something else people should know ... gas stations make no money on, and sometimes lose money on gasoline ... they only make money when you go into the store and buy a bunch of other stuff ... not only that, but they don't make a lot ... 2 to 3% profit is good in this business ...
the couple i worked for got there about 6:30 am and would leave around 7-9 pm, 7 days a week ... i once figured out that they were earning about 3 or 4 bucks an hour apiece, if they were making money ...
their real profit would come when they turned around and sold the franchise to someone else ... the simple truth is that it's very hard to make money in the gas station, convenience store business and you're not going to make a lot on one ... like my boss said, "we see a lot of money, we just don't keep it"
here's another interesting thing ... i'm sure people have noticed immigrants running a lot of these places ... aside from the observations that they're willing to work harder and have many family members to help them, there's something else that assists them ... they're exempt from some taxes in the first 7 years they run a business in this country ... it gives them an edge
even then, some of their places go out of business ... the margin is still too thin ... you'd think that when a store gets a box of poptarts or a bottle of aspirin from the distributor and adds a buck ... or when they're paying 50-60 cents for a 99c bag of chips (and the vendor will take back the chips you don't sell) ... the owners would be making tons of money, but it just isn't so ...
30 years ago, most of the gas outlets were full service stations that did car repair, too ... i cannot think of ONE of these stations that were in my hometown in 1975 that survived without either dropping the gas altogether and concentrating on repair work or converting to a c-store/gas station model ... the rest went out of business
to sum up, the retailer has zero control ... the contracts he signs are very restrictive and the system's set up so he can't make money from gasoline
don't ever buy one of these places thinking that you're going to make a ton of money ...
posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 AM on June 11, 2005
there's something else people should know ... gas stations make no money on, and sometimes lose money on gasoline ... they only make money when you go into the store and buy a bunch of other stuff ... not only that, but they don't make a lot ... 2 to 3% profit is good in this business ...
the couple i worked for got there about 6:30 am and would leave around 7-9 pm, 7 days a week ... i once figured out that they were earning about 3 or 4 bucks an hour apiece, if they were making money ...
their real profit would come when they turned around and sold the franchise to someone else ... the simple truth is that it's very hard to make money in the gas station, convenience store business and you're not going to make a lot on one ... like my boss said, "we see a lot of money, we just don't keep it"
here's another interesting thing ... i'm sure people have noticed immigrants running a lot of these places ... aside from the observations that they're willing to work harder and have many family members to help them, there's something else that assists them ... they're exempt from some taxes in the first 7 years they run a business in this country ... it gives them an edge
even then, some of their places go out of business ... the margin is still too thin ... you'd think that when a store gets a box of poptarts or a bottle of aspirin from the distributor and adds a buck ... or when they're paying 50-60 cents for a 99c bag of chips (and the vendor will take back the chips you don't sell) ... the owners would be making tons of money, but it just isn't so ...
30 years ago, most of the gas outlets were full service stations that did car repair, too ... i cannot think of ONE of these stations that were in my hometown in 1975 that survived without either dropping the gas altogether and concentrating on repair work or converting to a c-store/gas station model ... the rest went out of business
to sum up, the retailer has zero control ... the contracts he signs are very restrictive and the system's set up so he can't make money from gasoline
don't ever buy one of these places thinking that you're going to make a ton of money ...
posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 AM on June 11, 2005
Retailers (the guys with the pumps) buy from wholesalers (the guys with the trucks) who buy from distributors, who get the product from the refinery. A key point in considering the day-to-day price differences is that a 2-cent per gallon change at the refinery is immediately transferred right down the line to the price at the pump. Hence it doesn't matter that the retailer bought his 1,000 gallons last week, when the price was different. And if he does not sell volume, he can take a serious loss if the price has dropped by a few cents, enough to wipe out his very small profit margin. Hence the emphasis on selling beer, cigarettes, and overpriced Cheetos.
Oh, and federal and local taxes are a huge part of the price per gallon. That's what pays for the construction work that you see on the highways right now.
posted by yclipse at 5:47 AM on June 11, 2005
Oh, and federal and local taxes are a huge part of the price per gallon. That's what pays for the construction work that you see on the highways right now.
posted by yclipse at 5:47 AM on June 11, 2005
From the Department of Energy: A Primer on Gasoline Prices.
posted by diftb at 7:18 AM on June 11, 2005
posted by diftb at 7:18 AM on June 11, 2005
When I worked at a local gas station in high school, our price was whatever the Shell up the street charged, minus 5 cents.
posted by sohcahtoa at 8:24 AM on June 11, 2005
posted by sohcahtoa at 8:24 AM on June 11, 2005
I always figured rent had something to do with it, too. The land a gas station sits on in Bel Air has to cost more than the same amount in Inglewood, right?
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:35 AM on June 11, 2005
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:35 AM on June 11, 2005
In some states, there are laws against selling below cost, but you're still allowed to sell it at cost.
(Beat me to it...) This pops up Minnesota from time to time. The state recently got on the case of some stations who were selling below cost, after the activity drew the attention of local tv news.
posted by gimonca at 6:51 AM on June 12, 2005
(Beat me to it...) This pops up Minnesota from time to time. The state recently got on the case of some stations who were selling below cost, after the activity drew the attention of local tv news.
posted by gimonca at 6:51 AM on June 12, 2005
The land a gas station sits on in Bel Air has to cost more than the same amount in Inglewood, right?
I think that does play some part, in the same way it affects supermarket prices. In Milwaukee, gas downtown, and in the city itself is higher than in the first ring of suburbs, then as you get out farther into the suburbs the prices start to rise again.
posted by drezdn at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2005
I think that does play some part, in the same way it affects supermarket prices. In Milwaukee, gas downtown, and in the city itself is higher than in the first ring of suburbs, then as you get out farther into the suburbs the prices start to rise again.
posted by drezdn at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by iwouldificould at 10:35 PM on June 10, 2005