How to introduce girlfriends to ex-FWB's
September 20, 2011 11:28 AM Subscribe
How do I introduce new girlfriends/dates to a best friend who also happens to be somewhat of an old flame?
I'm a guy, one of my best friends is female. We've been friends for almost 10 years now and have had a few small flings over the last few years. We've had a month-long fling 3 years ago that fizzled when we had to move to different cities, and when we ended up in the same city again we had 2 drunken one-night stands within this past year. We agreed to treat it as a fling and nothing else and that it's fun to just roll with it when it does happen but otherwise pursue other people we're interested in. We continue to date other people and remain excellent friends, no drama on our end.
Where I'm worried about drama happening is when introducing women I'm dating/potential new girlfriends to this friend. It would be impossible for new girlfriends to get to the point where they meet my friends without meeting this Friend as she is central to my social circle.
What is the etiquette here? Do I brief girlfriends (in private) on me and my friends past before I introduce them? Is it none of their business and I tell them nothing? If I do tell, how can I phrase it? "Hey just so you know, me and Friend have been involved romantically in the past, but we're just friends now" makes it sound like Friend is an ex-gf. Saying something like "me and Friend never dated, but just so you know we have a history, and now we're just friends" makes it sound like it's some ongoing friends-with-benefits thing that was never resolved - I don't want current girlfriends to feel threatened.
What is the best way to go about this? Or do I just try my best to keep everyone separate?
I'm a guy, one of my best friends is female. We've been friends for almost 10 years now and have had a few small flings over the last few years. We've had a month-long fling 3 years ago that fizzled when we had to move to different cities, and when we ended up in the same city again we had 2 drunken one-night stands within this past year. We agreed to treat it as a fling and nothing else and that it's fun to just roll with it when it does happen but otherwise pursue other people we're interested in. We continue to date other people and remain excellent friends, no drama on our end.
Where I'm worried about drama happening is when introducing women I'm dating/potential new girlfriends to this friend. It would be impossible for new girlfriends to get to the point where they meet my friends without meeting this Friend as she is central to my social circle.
What is the etiquette here? Do I brief girlfriends (in private) on me and my friends past before I introduce them? Is it none of their business and I tell them nothing? If I do tell, how can I phrase it? "Hey just so you know, me and Friend have been involved romantically in the past, but we're just friends now" makes it sound like Friend is an ex-gf. Saying something like "me and Friend never dated, but just so you know we have a history, and now we're just friends" makes it sound like it's some ongoing friends-with-benefits thing that was never resolved - I don't want current girlfriends to feel threatened.
What is the best way to go about this? Or do I just try my best to keep everyone separate?
This goes out the window, of course, if you still plan on having FWB flings with Barbara while you're dating Jean. Then it's everyone's business.
posted by phunniemee at 11:32 AM on September 20, 2011 [16 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 11:32 AM on September 20, 2011 [16 favorites]
Absolutely bring it up to your girlfriends. After they've met and hung out with this girl, so they've had a chance to form their own opinions about her, let them know later that night that you and her tried to have a relationship and it just never stuck.
Sounds like it's bound to come up (maybe from her or maybe from someone else in your circle of friends.) Then your girlfriends are going to feel like you're trying to hide that old relationship. Be clear and transparent about this to avoid future conflicts.
posted by royalsong at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Sounds like it's bound to come up (maybe from her or maybe from someone else in your circle of friends.) Then your girlfriends are going to feel like you're trying to hide that old relationship. Be clear and transparent about this to avoid future conflicts.
posted by royalsong at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
We agreed to treat it as a fling and nothing else and that it's fun to just roll with it when it does happen but otherwise pursue other people we're interested in.
It sounds like it *is* an ongoing thing.
As a girl, I would be extremely uncomfortable meeting your bff if I knew she was an old flame. Save it for whenever it comes up naturally, but don't hide it if it seems like the right time to mention it (like the "exes" talk). Most importantly, you don't want a gf to be biased about your friend before they meet. If they've met and like each other, it'll be easier for her to accept it without prejudice against your bff.
posted by DoubleLune at 11:35 AM on September 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
It sounds like it *is* an ongoing thing.
As a girl, I would be extremely uncomfortable meeting your bff if I knew she was an old flame. Save it for whenever it comes up naturally, but don't hide it if it seems like the right time to mention it (like the "exes" talk). Most importantly, you don't want a gf to be biased about your friend before they meet. If they've met and like each other, it'll be easier for her to accept it without prejudice against your bff.
posted by DoubleLune at 11:35 AM on September 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
She's an important person in your life. If you end FWB when you get serious with someone else, then it's no one's business what happened before. You introduce her as a friend.
posted by inturnaround at 11:35 AM on September 20, 2011
posted by inturnaround at 11:35 AM on September 20, 2011
When they totally smell out what is going on between you -- and they will -- please don't try to play the "we're just friends, I swear, it's all in your head!" card. It's not fair to make people think they are responding irrationally to something that is not real, when in fact they are probably responding rationally to something that is (mostly) real.
posted by hermitosis at 11:42 AM on September 20, 2011 [44 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 11:42 AM on September 20, 2011 [44 favorites]
I see this going down one of a few ways (if I could be bothered I bet I could back them up with examples from past askMe questions)
1) You don't tell GF about your past with 'friend', she finds out dumps you straight away/ feels so betrayed that she never trusts you again and you ultimately break up because of the strain that puts on the relationship
2) You don't tell GF and she never finds out - seems unlikely but it could happen
3) You tell GF up-front, she issues an ultimatum ordering you never to see friend again
4) You tell GF up-front and she pretends she's fine with it but she never really trusts you and ends up snooping through your person emails/text messages and obsessing ever time you're out with your friends
5) You tell GF up-front and she's fine with it
6) You don't tell GF up and she finds out, she's mildly pissed at you for the secrecy but is ultimately ok with it
Unfortunately we have no idea what kind of girl your gf is/will be. I vote for being up-front about it and dealing with the consequences - that way you get rid of the crazy green-eyed monsters before you're too invested.
posted by missmagenta at 11:43 AM on September 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
1) You don't tell GF about your past with 'friend', she finds out dumps you straight away/ feels so betrayed that she never trusts you again and you ultimately break up because of the strain that puts on the relationship
2) You don't tell GF and she never finds out - seems unlikely but it could happen
3) You tell GF up-front, she issues an ultimatum ordering you never to see friend again
4) You tell GF up-front and she pretends she's fine with it but she never really trusts you and ends up snooping through your person emails/text messages and obsessing ever time you're out with your friends
5) You tell GF up-front and she's fine with it
6) You don't tell GF up and she finds out, she's mildly pissed at you for the secrecy but is ultimately ok with it
Unfortunately we have no idea what kind of girl your gf is/will be. I vote for being up-front about it and dealing with the consequences - that way you get rid of the crazy green-eyed monsters before you're too invested.
posted by missmagenta at 11:43 AM on September 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
Potential Girlfriend doesn't need to know the details of your former relationships. Serious Girlfriend does. Well, maybe not need, but it would be a dick move to not tell her that you used to hook up with your best friend. In private.
Also, from my experience with having a female best friend (with whom I've never hooked up), even if you don't tell Potential Girlfriend, she'll ask if there was ever anything between you two after either finding out your best friend is a lady, or after meeting her. I haven't had many girlfriends, but it's happened every single time. Don't lie, but do put the emphasis on it having been brief and, more importantly, so over.
Meanwhile, you've got a pretty good litmus test for future girlfriend drama, here, so pay attention and take advantage. If she's slightly (and maybe even not at all!) uncomfortable but trusting: good. Openly distrusting: you might have trouble. Tells you never to hang out with this person again: danger, Will Robinson.
posted by griphus at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011 [8 favorites]
Also, from my experience with having a female best friend (with whom I've never hooked up), even if you don't tell Potential Girlfriend, she'll ask if there was ever anything between you two after either finding out your best friend is a lady, or after meeting her. I haven't had many girlfriends, but it's happened every single time. Don't lie, but do put the emphasis on it having been brief and, more importantly, so over.
Meanwhile, you've got a pretty good litmus test for future girlfriend drama, here, so pay attention and take advantage. If she's slightly (and maybe even not at all!) uncomfortable but trusting: good. Openly distrusting: you might have trouble. Tells you never to hang out with this person again: danger, Will Robinson.
posted by griphus at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011 [8 favorites]
I would mention the 'old flame' thing in the context of the month long fling 3 years ago. I would not mention you were FWB during the last year with someone you have known for a decade. I suspect new gf would be much happier to think of her as an old gf that things didn't work out romantically, rather than a really great friend who you occasionally like to fuck. If she pushes the issue, be honest, but don't go offering up that tidbit right away unless she asks.
posted by modernnomad at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by modernnomad at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
I agree that it doesn't need to come up when you introduce them. It does need to come up when you get serious and start talking about your past and potential future.
Saying something like "me and Friend never dated, but just so you know we have a history, and now we're just friends" makes it sound like it's some ongoing friends-with-benefits thing that was never resolved
I agree with others that it doesn't sound like it was ever resolved. The idea that you'll pursue other relationships but have occasional flings in between kind of implies you are keeping the door open and might want to toggle this relationship back to "on" at any time. If I were dating you and became aware that you thought of that relationship as a back burner option all the time, that would undermine my confidence in you as a partner.
I'm kind of wondering why you're not dating this woman who's your best friend and who you've had a couple of attempts with. "Drunken flings" and LDRs aren't the best start to a real relationship, but is there a chance you'd really rather have her be your main, straight-up relationship? Otherwise, why would you want to keep the possibility of getting back with her alive in the background?
posted by Miko at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011 [11 favorites]
Saying something like "me and Friend never dated, but just so you know we have a history, and now we're just friends" makes it sound like it's some ongoing friends-with-benefits thing that was never resolved
I agree with others that it doesn't sound like it was ever resolved. The idea that you'll pursue other relationships but have occasional flings in between kind of implies you are keeping the door open and might want to toggle this relationship back to "on" at any time. If I were dating you and became aware that you thought of that relationship as a back burner option all the time, that would undermine my confidence in you as a partner.
I'm kind of wondering why you're not dating this woman who's your best friend and who you've had a couple of attempts with. "Drunken flings" and LDRs aren't the best start to a real relationship, but is there a chance you'd really rather have her be your main, straight-up relationship? Otherwise, why would you want to keep the possibility of getting back with her alive in the background?
posted by Miko at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011 [11 favorites]
TWO of my best friends are exes. And serious exes to boot (as in, we didn't just have flings, we had full-on relationships).
I always, always inform new guys about that before I introduce them -- I don't make a whole song-and-dance about it. I mention it as we're about to head out to join them -- "So, yeah, my friend Jeremy will be there; and so you know, Jeremy and I dated once." But I also mention how "over" we are ("but that was ten years ago, and you'll also be meeting Jeremy's current girlfriend Susan, whom he's been with for nine years.")
Mind you, I tend to NOT introduce new guys to my friends until after we've had a while of dating under our belt so I know that there's actually a "there" there with the new guy. Casual flings don't really even get to meet my friends unless we all happen to run into each other or something. I've just found that there is a certain "vibe" in the air with someone you were once that close to, even if you're not the slightest bit interested in them any more; acknowledging the past relationship tends to acknowledge and diffuse that vibe at the same time.
It's kind of like a running bit that they had in the movie Alien 3 -- where one of the characters would have regular meetings with the people under his charge to tell them what was going on, and he'd introduce each one by saying, "Attention -- this is Rumor Control! Here are the facts!" Your saying "we had an on-again-off-again thing for a while that wasn't serious, and now it's off" is your version of, "This is rumor control, here are the facts."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011
I always, always inform new guys about that before I introduce them -- I don't make a whole song-and-dance about it. I mention it as we're about to head out to join them -- "So, yeah, my friend Jeremy will be there; and so you know, Jeremy and I dated once." But I also mention how "over" we are ("but that was ten years ago, and you'll also be meeting Jeremy's current girlfriend Susan, whom he's been with for nine years.")
Mind you, I tend to NOT introduce new guys to my friends until after we've had a while of dating under our belt so I know that there's actually a "there" there with the new guy. Casual flings don't really even get to meet my friends unless we all happen to run into each other or something. I've just found that there is a certain "vibe" in the air with someone you were once that close to, even if you're not the slightest bit interested in them any more; acknowledging the past relationship tends to acknowledge and diffuse that vibe at the same time.
It's kind of like a running bit that they had in the movie Alien 3 -- where one of the characters would have regular meetings with the people under his charge to tell them what was going on, and he'd introduce each one by saying, "Attention -- this is Rumor Control! Here are the facts!" Your saying "we had an on-again-off-again thing for a while that wasn't serious, and now it's off" is your version of, "This is rumor control, here are the facts."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:44 AM on September 20, 2011
Are you, or are you not, still having sex with your best friend?
-If you are not, I think your phrasing is fine. Before the new GF meets her, or shortly afterwards, say, "Hey, just so you know, [friend] and I dated very briefly a few years ago, but the spark wasn't there, so now we're just friends."
-If you are still having sex with [friend] and plan to continue to do so until you are in an exclusive relationship with someone else, I think you have a problem. Because what you're doing then is introducing a woman you're dating to a woman you're sleeping with. And sorry, there's just no non-awkward way to do that, no matter how strongly you insist that the latter is just a friend. If you lie about it, you basically have to lie to GF forever, because if she ever finds out you were sleeping with [friend] and didn't tell her, she's likely to be angry.
My personal advice would be this: when you get to a point where you're serious enough about someone to introduce them to your friends, you should stop sleeping with [friend]. Don't introduce girlfriends to [friend], even if that means they don't meet any of your friends, until you're no longer sleeping with [friend].
posted by decathecting at 11:45 AM on September 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
-If you are not, I think your phrasing is fine. Before the new GF meets her, or shortly afterwards, say, "Hey, just so you know, [friend] and I dated very briefly a few years ago, but the spark wasn't there, so now we're just friends."
-If you are still having sex with [friend] and plan to continue to do so until you are in an exclusive relationship with someone else, I think you have a problem. Because what you're doing then is introducing a woman you're dating to a woman you're sleeping with. And sorry, there's just no non-awkward way to do that, no matter how strongly you insist that the latter is just a friend. If you lie about it, you basically have to lie to GF forever, because if she ever finds out you were sleeping with [friend] and didn't tell her, she's likely to be angry.
My personal advice would be this: when you get to a point where you're serious enough about someone to introduce them to your friends, you should stop sleeping with [friend]. Don't introduce girlfriends to [friend], even if that means they don't meet any of your friends, until you're no longer sleeping with [friend].
posted by decathecting at 11:45 AM on September 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
The fact that you ask this question makes me curious about whether one of you have feelings for the other. If she is a friend, she is a friend. So what if you dated?
posted by 2legit2quit at 11:58 AM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by 2legit2quit at 11:58 AM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I was in a similar position myself, though on the other side.
What we chose to do (that worked out exceptionally well I might add), was that I (the female friend) hung back for a while. I visited our other friends when he and his girlfriend were not present and left him alone for about four months. This gave him time to build a foundation with his girlfriend.
From our pleasant outcome, let me give you a very important piece of advice: You need foundation and context before you bring this up to her.
You see, part of the problem with mentioning your friend/introducing/hanging out with/etc early on is that in the introductory stages of a relationship your girlfriend does not know that you are a kind and devoted man who is not interested in his friend as a long term partner or lover (you ain't, right?). She doesn't know that it was a harmless fling because she doesn't know you well enough yet to know that this other woman is not a threat. Your girlfriend has no way of knowing that you are not playing hide the sausage on the side with your friend because you have not known her long enough to establish a pattern of honesty and integrity. Basically, you would be throwing her a curve ball and asking her to take you, still a relative stranger, at your word. There is an easier way.
In the case of my friend and I, after a few months of mutual avoidance he explained the situation to his girlfriend and introduced us. By then she was confident enough in his integrity and their relationship to not be threatened by me, and we get along splendidly to this day.
posted by Shouraku at 12:00 PM on September 20, 2011 [11 favorites]
What we chose to do (that worked out exceptionally well I might add), was that I (the female friend) hung back for a while. I visited our other friends when he and his girlfriend were not present and left him alone for about four months. This gave him time to build a foundation with his girlfriend.
From our pleasant outcome, let me give you a very important piece of advice: You need foundation and context before you bring this up to her.
You see, part of the problem with mentioning your friend/introducing/hanging out with/etc early on is that in the introductory stages of a relationship your girlfriend does not know that you are a kind and devoted man who is not interested in his friend as a long term partner or lover (you ain't, right?). She doesn't know that it was a harmless fling because she doesn't know you well enough yet to know that this other woman is not a threat. Your girlfriend has no way of knowing that you are not playing hide the sausage on the side with your friend because you have not known her long enough to establish a pattern of honesty and integrity. Basically, you would be throwing her a curve ball and asking her to take you, still a relative stranger, at your word. There is an easier way.
In the case of my friend and I, after a few months of mutual avoidance he explained the situation to his girlfriend and introduced us. By then she was confident enough in his integrity and their relationship to not be threatened by me, and we get along splendidly to this day.
posted by Shouraku at 12:00 PM on September 20, 2011 [11 favorites]
I once went out on a date with this man that I'd just met. While at the bar, we spoke briefly with a mutual friend. When she was out of earshot, he said, "FULL DISCLOSURE, I slept with her." It was an interesting factoid, but I really did not want to know that. Your potential girlfriend doesn't want to know these details!! You don't want to know whom she has slept with, trust me. I understand this situation is a tad more complicated, but really, keep it light and simple until the need arises to talk about it. Which I happen to think is about NEVER EVER, but whatever works.
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:02 PM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:02 PM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think that HOW you frame this is less important than WHEN you do, upon reflection. If you've just yesterday started seeing someone, then no need to bring it up; but maybe it's not a good time for your new girlfriend to be meeting your friend anyway just yet, either. When you have more of an established "I think this is a....thing" going on with the new girlfriend, THEN absolutely mention it, in my opinion.
Disclaimer: when I meet someone new I tend to "cocoon" with them for a while, and we don't do anything with each others' friends for at least a month. Introducing each other to friends is a big thing, yo.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:08 PM on September 20, 2011
Disclaimer: when I meet someone new I tend to "cocoon" with them for a while, and we don't do anything with each others' friends for at least a month. Introducing each other to friends is a big thing, yo.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:08 PM on September 20, 2011
My husband introduced me to a FWB after we had been dating for a few weeks. He said, "Sarah [not her name], this is my girlfriend, Lollusc. Lollusc, this is Sarah. We used to fuck when we were bored."
This did not work well. Don't do this.
posted by lollusc at 12:17 PM on September 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
This did not work well. Don't do this.
posted by lollusc at 12:17 PM on September 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
- Don't triangulate with "best friend" and new person and you.
- There already is drama between you and "best friend."
- Tell your potential gf's or dates that you are FWB with your "best friend" so they can become FWB with you, too, or choose to move on.
You will not be ready for a new and committed relationship until the person you describe as your "best friend" is out of your life. I've been you to an extent. I know.
posted by jbenben at 12:19 PM on September 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
- There already is drama between you and "best friend."
- Tell your potential gf's or dates that you are FWB with your "best friend" so they can become FWB with you, too, or choose to move on.
You will not be ready for a new and committed relationship until the person you describe as your "best friend" is out of your life. I've been you to an extent. I know.
posted by jbenben at 12:19 PM on September 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
Well, from the way you describe it, it actually does sound like an ongoing unresolved FWB situation. And the fact that alcohol was involved in both recent hookups would give me pause. Are these premeditated hookups, or a "we were hanging out and one thing just led to another" sort of thing?
It might help if you mentally reframed your FWB situation so you're more mentally in control of it - "she and I agree to occasionally hook up during dry spells" - rather than "well, whatever happens." It'll be easier to think of it as Not A Thing.
Once it's definitively resolved, then you can confidently say "we had a fling a few years ago, but we're just friends now."
If the new/potential girlfriend gets jealous, don't instantly get defensive about your friend; it'll just look like you've got something to hide. Instead, work on earning your girlfriend's trust and showing that your friend isn't a threat. Be completely open with your friendship (not the FWB stuff, but the ordinary platonic stuff) in front of your girlfriend. They don't have to be buddies, but don't try to keep them separate. You don't have to go into details about your past with this friend, but if there is anything current between you two that you feel compelled to hide from your sweetie, that's a warning sign.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:23 PM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
It might help if you mentally reframed your FWB situation so you're more mentally in control of it - "she and I agree to occasionally hook up during dry spells" - rather than "well, whatever happens." It'll be easier to think of it as Not A Thing.
Once it's definitively resolved, then you can confidently say "we had a fling a few years ago, but we're just friends now."
If the new/potential girlfriend gets jealous, don't instantly get defensive about your friend; it'll just look like you've got something to hide. Instead, work on earning your girlfriend's trust and showing that your friend isn't a threat. Be completely open with your friendship (not the FWB stuff, but the ordinary platonic stuff) in front of your girlfriend. They don't have to be buddies, but don't try to keep them separate. You don't have to go into details about your past with this friend, but if there is anything current between you two that you feel compelled to hide from your sweetie, that's a warning sign.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:23 PM on September 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Another way for me to answer this...
There already is drama between you and best friend. You're just trying to make it someone else's problem by bringing in a 3rd person and putting them in a tricky emotional spot instead of dealing with the issues between you and your best friend.
Most people describe their SO as their best friend. By sleeping with this woman you've designated your Best Friend, I don't reasonably see room for anyone else.
Do you?
posted by jbenben at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
There already is drama between you and best friend. You're just trying to make it someone else's problem by bringing in a 3rd person and putting them in a tricky emotional spot instead of dealing with the issues between you and your best friend.
Most people describe their SO as their best friend. By sleeping with this woman you've designated your Best Friend, I don't reasonably see room for anyone else.
Do you?
posted by jbenben at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
You will not be ready for a new and committed relationship until the person you describe as your "best friend" is out of your life.
This is true for you. It is not true for everyone. I have a very close friend who I used to fool around with and we had no problem maintaining our friendship while being in separate, healthy relationships.
OP, it's my opinion that your past relationships are your current gf's business, but your past flings are not. If you're asked directly about your friend, I would answer that the two of you used to fool around but you decided that you work better just as friends, and leave it at that.
All this presupposes that you really, genuinely don't have romantic feelings for your friend.
posted by auto-correct at 12:29 PM on September 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
This is true for you. It is not true for everyone. I have a very close friend who I used to fool around with and we had no problem maintaining our friendship while being in separate, healthy relationships.
OP, it's my opinion that your past relationships are your current gf's business, but your past flings are not. If you're asked directly about your friend, I would answer that the two of you used to fool around but you decided that you work better just as friends, and leave it at that.
All this presupposes that you really, genuinely don't have romantic feelings for your friend.
posted by auto-correct at 12:29 PM on September 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
OP describes still sleeping with "best friend" so this is a very current thing going on here. There's not a lot of (emotionally intimate) room left over for anyone the OP might date since the OP's long-term best friend really has that ground covered.
posted by jbenben at 12:35 PM on September 20, 2011
posted by jbenben at 12:35 PM on September 20, 2011
I realize this will paint me as uptight and uncool, but as a potential GF of yours I would want to know about your ongoing on-again-off-again with this girl, because it would be a key piece of information in my decision not to continue date you.
Some women are fine navigating this kind of territory in a potential relationship, and some really, REALLY aren't. It would serve you well to find out sooner rather than later, to save everyone involved unnecessary drama.
Unsolicited bonus advice: if you honestly don't want to be in a relationship with your friend, and you're looking to date someone else in a more serious, long-term, monogamous way, I would avoid spending any time with your friend alone, particularly when alcohol is involved. And I would be prepared to have new girlfriends be very suspicious of her for the first few months, at least.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Some women are fine navigating this kind of territory in a potential relationship, and some really, REALLY aren't. It would serve you well to find out sooner rather than later, to save everyone involved unnecessary drama.
Unsolicited bonus advice: if you honestly don't want to be in a relationship with your friend, and you're looking to date someone else in a more serious, long-term, monogamous way, I would avoid spending any time with your friend alone, particularly when alcohol is involved. And I would be prepared to have new girlfriends be very suspicious of her for the first few months, at least.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Another think to keep in mind is that your friend may seem totally cool with the situation now, but may become drastically uncool about it once you actually start dating someone else. Emotions are weird like that. So, there is actually the potential for a GREAT DEAL of drama on your end of the situation
posted by hermitosis at 12:40 PM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 12:40 PM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
I ran into a situation like this not too long ago. On the way to meeting said friend, he mentioned that "Hey, by the way, [friend] and I dated once a long time ago. That's way over and now we're just really good friends, but I wanted to let you know."
I appreciated the heads up, felt totally unthreatened by the situation, and I think [friend] is fantastic.
posted by chatongriffes at 12:41 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
I appreciated the heads up, felt totally unthreatened by the situation, and I think [friend] is fantastic.
posted by chatongriffes at 12:41 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it's one thing to have a platonic female best friend/ex who you dated briefly a while ago. Quite a different thing to have a female "best friend" with whom you just aren't hooking up with at the moment. Some kind of transition will need to be made.
posted by mrs. sock at 1:15 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by mrs. sock at 1:15 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was involved with someone who casually mentioned a friend who he'd once dated as someone he kept in contact with. They talked on the phone a lot, and I didn't really think anything of it. But she continued to call him multiple times a day, which I started to think was kind of weird for someone he dated a little bit a few years ago. As my relationship with this person progressed, I learned (only after asking a lot of pointed questions) that this girl had been in a relationship with him for over ten years, first as a girlfriend, then as a live-in fwb, finally to be relegated to the limbo of "just friends" with occasional forays into booty calls.
I was not happy to say the least. Guy admitted he'd downplayed the length and seriousness of their relationship because he thought I'd book.
Do not do this. Be honest with your girlfriend.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:24 PM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
I was not happy to say the least. Guy admitted he'd downplayed the length and seriousness of their relationship because he thought I'd book.
Do not do this. Be honest with your girlfriend.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:24 PM on September 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
You tried to have a relationship with her. It didn't work. You parted on good terms.
Framed correctly, that could be more reassuring than upsetting. You're not secretly pining away for a relationship with her (which you might be in the case of someone who wasn't an ex) and you're the sort of guy who doesn't leave a trail of pissed off exes in his wake. Yay!
posted by pjaust at 1:34 PM on September 20, 2011
Framed correctly, that could be more reassuring than upsetting. You're not secretly pining away for a relationship with her (which you might be in the case of someone who wasn't an ex) and you're the sort of guy who doesn't leave a trail of pissed off exes in his wake. Yay!
posted by pjaust at 1:34 PM on September 20, 2011
If you really want a relationship with some new girl, you gotta have space. If/when it becomes a serious thing with new girl the last thing she probably wants to hear is" I use to fuck my best friend". Kinda weird and making things more drama like. Why not shut up about thw whole fucking thing and not mention it? That seems to be a simple solution.
/also stop fucking your best friend if you want to meet or date a new girl, it isn't going to work out well
posted by handbanana at 1:35 PM on September 20, 2011
/also stop fucking your best friend if you want to meet or date a new girl, it isn't going to work out well
posted by handbanana at 1:35 PM on September 20, 2011
Also don't introduce your girlfriend to your "best friend" who happens to be female. A significant other should hopefully hold that title. If some woman I was dating seriously said some dude was her best friend, I don't think things were as serious as I imagined.
posted by handbanana at 1:46 PM on September 20, 2011
posted by handbanana at 1:46 PM on September 20, 2011
If the new girl is actually a girlfriend, and not just someone you've been casually dating for a not-very-long period of time, you should give her a heads up beforehand. If you don't, your GF will meet the friend at an information disadvantage, and that kind of sucks for her. The GF, more than likely, will pick up some vibes from one or both of you and spend the night thinking something is up and maybe convincing herself she's crazy when she's not. If your GF meets this friend, chances are it's going to be awkward for someone and you should do everything you can to make your GF feel comfortable- in my mind, this includes not lying to her by omission when you introduce your "friend" to her.
posted by MadamM at 2:11 PM on September 20, 2011
posted by MadamM at 2:11 PM on September 20, 2011
As the female now-best friend, I always prefered the new girl know that male friend and I tried it, it didn't click that way, now we're friends who are happy for the other's happiness in relationships. I'm always nervous meeting the girlfriend. Luckily my two male former FWBs have picked sensible women who accepted it as just as we presented (and proved over time) - one who is now his wife and one of my best friends, the other I married to my male friend as a proud minister*.
As a new girlfriend, I feel it is important to know because I will notice little tells of affection that is beyond merely friends. If boyfriend is not up front about it, I will imagine there is something to this relationship that needs to be hidden from me. I don't need to know the deep details nor do I need to know when we've just begun dating - I may have some history like this in my own life but only tell those who are going to stay around. Usually around the time you're considering intoducing new partner to your friends as your "girlfriend" is a good time in my book to mention history with friends.
*Though it was awkward to be asked bluntly by the teenage daughter of the bride about something that happened so many lives ago.
posted by _paegan_ at 2:25 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a new girlfriend, I feel it is important to know because I will notice little tells of affection that is beyond merely friends. If boyfriend is not up front about it, I will imagine there is something to this relationship that needs to be hidden from me. I don't need to know the deep details nor do I need to know when we've just begun dating - I may have some history like this in my own life but only tell those who are going to stay around. Usually around the time you're considering intoducing new partner to your friends as your "girlfriend" is a good time in my book to mention history with friends.
*Though it was awkward to be asked bluntly by the teenage daughter of the bride about something that happened so many lives ago.
posted by _paegan_ at 2:25 PM on September 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
On preview - agreed upon mutual avoidance was probably key with my situations, each of us had time to build a foundation of trust with new partners.
posted by _paegan_ at 2:32 PM on September 20, 2011
posted by _paegan_ at 2:32 PM on September 20, 2011
Honestly, I'm not even a jealous person and this situation is red-flagging me all over the place. I can't imagine a girlfriend who wouldn't be having red flags because "best friend" is more of a "off and on fuckbuddy that I'll be boinking again after we break up." I don't feel like this relationship is sexually/emotionally over and done with enough for you to pass it off as something innocent and platonic to a new girl. Even if you don't tell, the new girl will probably uh, notice a vibe between you.
So I don't really have a solution to this problem for you other than for you to totally break off the sexy times/curb the "more than friends" with your "best friend," or just officially date her until y'all get it out of your systems. Right now it's just enough limbo to bother well, any girl at all, even non-jealous types.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:10 PM on September 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
So I don't really have a solution to this problem for you other than for you to totally break off the sexy times/curb the "more than friends" with your "best friend," or just officially date her until y'all get it out of your systems. Right now it's just enough limbo to bother well, any girl at all, even non-jealous types.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:10 PM on September 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
My fiancé (now wife) and my former best-friend/lover met and nearly immediately became thick as thieves. There are still best friends lo these 15 years later. Just one possibly outlier datapoint, but wanted to put it out there as a possible outcome.
They already have Dealing With You (no judgements here) in common, so if they hit it off personally, that makes it all the easier. If this is a sexist thing to say, I'm sure I'll be hung for it, but it seems to me that women have a far more nuanced way of dealing with this than the "average" man.
posted by digitalprimate at 7:34 PM on September 20, 2011
They already have Dealing With You (no judgements here) in common, so if they hit it off personally, that makes it all the easier. If this is a sexist thing to say, I'm sure I'll be hung for it, but it seems to me that women have a far more nuanced way of dealing with this than the "average" man.
posted by digitalprimate at 7:34 PM on September 20, 2011
I have been the friend who let it slip to my friend Saul's girlfriend Jenny that Saul and his friend Paula used to be a thing. If you're not going to tell your girlfriend about your former FWBs, tell your friends so they don't let it slip.
posted by !Jim at 8:35 PM on September 20, 2011
posted by !Jim at 8:35 PM on September 20, 2011
This sentence concerns me:
It would be impossible for new girlfriends to get to the point where they meet my friends without meeting this Friend as she is central to my social circle.
If she is the sun that everyone orbits around, and you are one of the satellites, then (a) that could put the GF in a subordinate position, like someone going to meet the Queen, and (b) that could imply that you also are somewhat one-down, if it's like you're admitted to the group at her discretion. If this is true, then for you and your new GF to orbit around one another, you might have to detach from the pull of this friend.
There are other potential patterns. (You as the powerful king to match her queen -- perhaps an even bigger problem because if you start to depart, the whole structure collapses or she becomes like the widowed old queen mother.) These are probably vast oversimplifications or way off base. The general advice I have is that you think about what the dynamics of the group are at their core, and what it would be like for her to come as your date to one of these group events. I expect it'll be really important to make your GF feel important and valuable, and to introduce her as such.
posted by salvia at 12:26 AM on September 21, 2011
It would be impossible for new girlfriends to get to the point where they meet my friends without meeting this Friend as she is central to my social circle.
If she is the sun that everyone orbits around, and you are one of the satellites, then (a) that could put the GF in a subordinate position, like someone going to meet the Queen, and (b) that could imply that you also are somewhat one-down, if it's like you're admitted to the group at her discretion. If this is true, then for you and your new GF to orbit around one another, you might have to detach from the pull of this friend.
There are other potential patterns. (You as the powerful king to match her queen -- perhaps an even bigger problem because if you start to depart, the whole structure collapses or she becomes like the widowed old queen mother.) These are probably vast oversimplifications or way off base. The general advice I have is that you think about what the dynamics of the group are at their core, and what it would be like for her to come as your date to one of these group events. I expect it'll be really important to make your GF feel important and valuable, and to introduce her as such.
posted by salvia at 12:26 AM on September 21, 2011
I have been the friend who let it slip to my friend Saul's girlfriend Jenny that Saul and his friend Paula used to be a thing. If you're not going to tell your girlfriend about your former FWBs, tell your friends so they don't let it slip.
Also, consider that it's not really fair to expect your friends to keep this a secret from your new girlfriend. I wouldn't go out of my way to tell your girlfriend about your past, but I'm terrible at secrets. If you were my friend I'd assume you were an honest enough person that I wouldn't have to be constantly telling lies of omission, and editing stories so your FWB was just a friend. If you told me that you wanted me to keep your past a secret, and you expected your new girlfriend to be integrated into your friends circle, I would either flat out tell you I wasn't going to do that, or sharply downgrade my friendship with both you and new girlfriend.
So unless there are very few people that know about you and FWB's hook up past, recognize that if your new girlfriend doesn't hear it from you, she might accidentally hear it from another source, and that is super crappy.
posted by fermezporte at 3:07 AM on September 21, 2011
Also, consider that it's not really fair to expect your friends to keep this a secret from your new girlfriend. I wouldn't go out of my way to tell your girlfriend about your past, but I'm terrible at secrets. If you were my friend I'd assume you were an honest enough person that I wouldn't have to be constantly telling lies of omission, and editing stories so your FWB was just a friend. If you told me that you wanted me to keep your past a secret, and you expected your new girlfriend to be integrated into your friends circle, I would either flat out tell you I wasn't going to do that, or sharply downgrade my friendship with both you and new girlfriend.
So unless there are very few people that know about you and FWB's hook up past, recognize that if your new girlfriend doesn't hear it from you, she might accidentally hear it from another source, and that is super crappy.
posted by fermezporte at 3:07 AM on September 21, 2011
If you are still messing around with this woman who is a central figure in your friend group- I can't imagine how that's going to play out well with potential GFs. Stop shitting where you eat before you bring in potential romantic partners- or roll the dice and hope to find one that is really really really understanding.
Imagine some girl you've only been on say, six dates with over the course of a month, introducing you to her friends at a bar. The leader of the pack and her clearly have a very close friendship. You have a pretty good time after you stop being nervous, only to go home and have her turn to you and say "full disclosure- me and Mr Popular have been sleeping together, but i totally won't any more if you and i become exclusive."
ish.
There is no truthful way of mentioning that without sounding opportunistic and a little gross.
I personally don't think this is a moral issue at all- you aren't with anyone specific and it's not anyone else's business... but i wouldn't want to be the new girl in the picture and would quickly exit the scene if I thought there was something so complicated and-drama filled (sex=drama). It's going to put a real limit on potential relationships.
posted by Blisterlips at 6:25 AM on September 21, 2011
Imagine some girl you've only been on say, six dates with over the course of a month, introducing you to her friends at a bar. The leader of the pack and her clearly have a very close friendship. You have a pretty good time after you stop being nervous, only to go home and have her turn to you and say "full disclosure- me and Mr Popular have been sleeping together, but i totally won't any more if you and i become exclusive."
ish.
There is no truthful way of mentioning that without sounding opportunistic and a little gross.
I personally don't think this is a moral issue at all- you aren't with anyone specific and it's not anyone else's business... but i wouldn't want to be the new girl in the picture and would quickly exit the scene if I thought there was something so complicated and-drama filled (sex=drama). It's going to put a real limit on potential relationships.
posted by Blisterlips at 6:25 AM on September 21, 2011
widowed old queen mother Hmm, re-reading my comment, this kinda sounds sexist. What I mean is that losing someone's partner in crime can make anyone feel less alive and virile, and also like they were shunted off to the side. That can sometimes make people angry. I'd see that as more likely to happen if she's Ms. Popular and you're her counterbalance Mr. Popular.
posted by salvia at 8:07 AM on September 21, 2011
posted by salvia at 8:07 AM on September 21, 2011
Well I dunno if you have unresolved issues with this BFF or what, but taking your question at face value I agree that if it is more serious new GF should know.
I have found that problems arise when the guy is all "BF is the best, she's so great, she likes green but I like red, she thinks green is dadada, isn't that interesting and we were talking the other day about such an such and she is so smart and funny yada yada yada." Basically, anything that indicates in your behavior or speech that BF is more [insert positive attribute here] than new GF.
Maybe you're secretly in love with BF and she won't commit to you or vice versa - i don't know.
posted by abirdinthehand at 7:08 PM on September 21, 2011
I have found that problems arise when the guy is all "BF is the best, she's so great, she likes green but I like red, she thinks green is dadada, isn't that interesting and we were talking the other day about such an such and she is so smart and funny yada yada yada." Basically, anything that indicates in your behavior or speech that BF is more [insert positive attribute here] than new GF.
Maybe you're secretly in love with BF and she won't commit to you or vice versa - i don't know.
posted by abirdinthehand at 7:08 PM on September 21, 2011
It can be an embarrassing situation for future girlfriend if she doesn't know in advance. You shouldn't put FG in a position where she feels like the only one who doesn't know -- even if you think no one else knows, some of them do. FG is likely to pick up on things like glances between you and BF, and other people looking at her and wondering if she knows.
When FG finds out later, it won't be good. BF likes to drink, and I bet some of your other friends do too. Clearly, you want to stay in the same social circle -- even if FG doesn't notice anything, eventually someone will let on. BF might even say something -- are you sure there won't be any drama on your end when she loses her FWB and hangs out drinking with you and GF? Will someone else compliment GF on how it's great that she's not jealous about BF and it's so wonderful you all get along?
You can choose when and how to tell her this, or she can find out some other way.
posted by yohko at 8:05 PM on September 22, 2011
When FG finds out later, it won't be good. BF likes to drink, and I bet some of your other friends do too. Clearly, you want to stay in the same social circle -- even if FG doesn't notice anything, eventually someone will let on. BF might even say something -- are you sure there won't be any drama on your end when she loses her FWB and hangs out drinking with you and GF? Will someone else compliment GF on how it's great that she's not jealous about BF and it's so wonderful you all get along?
You can choose when and how to tell her this, or she can find out some other way.
posted by yohko at 8:05 PM on September 22, 2011
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It is none of their business unless you guys get serious and have a past relationships talk.
posted by phunniemee at 11:31 AM on September 20, 2011 [22 favorites]