Some Questions About Traffic-Light controlled roundabouts in the UK.
September 18, 2011 4:08 AM Subscribe
Some Questions About Traffic-Light controlled roundabouts in the UK.
Hi,
I'm having some difficulty groking exiting traffic-light controlled/large roundabouts and I was hoping I could get some help. In order to illustrate my thinking, I've prepared a visual aid in Google Maps here.
Using the map, assume I enter the roundabout at [Pin1] and want to exit at [Pin4] (i.e. going straight on).
Now,
(1) I assume when I enter at Pin1 its perfectly fine for me to be in the outer lane ti continue straight? I assume this because both outer lanes have direction arrows showing it's OK to continue straight (as indicated in Pin2). Or is it the case that the outer lane is always expected to filter out?
(2) There are 2 lanes Going straight as indicated in Pin2, so what happens in the situation as indicated by Pin3, where a car in the second outer lane (counting from the right as shown on pin2) wants to exit? (a) Is it allowed to or not? (b) Is it a case for looking or a gap and just exiting?
(3) Assume I get to Pin4, functionally this is the same as if I had just entered at the last entrace to the roundabout and want to continue straight. Would it be wrong for me to continue straight in the outer lane or second lane (counting from the right). Effectively, with traffic lights controlling flow could I circle the roundabout in the outer lane in this case?
(4) Similarly, imagine at position [Pin3], where I'm in the outer lane I decide I want to circle the roundabout in the inner lane. Would it be OK for me to indicate and move into the innermost lane?
I guess my major issue is, am I allowed to literally follow road-signs? I know it's convention that the outermost lane exits after the stop lights at every exit but would I be at fault if I continue straight? If I'm not at fault how is this compatible with people in the second lane next to me (on the right) wanting to leave the roundabout? Either I'll stop them exiting or they'll crash into me. Who would be at fault in this situation?
Also, generally what's the best course of action when negotiating such big roundabouts without local knowledge? I usually aim for outer lane (left) middle lane (straight) or inner lane (right) and work my way out cautiously. Is this the done thing?
Thanks for your help.
Hi,
I'm having some difficulty groking exiting traffic-light controlled/large roundabouts and I was hoping I could get some help. In order to illustrate my thinking, I've prepared a visual aid in Google Maps here.
Using the map, assume I enter the roundabout at [Pin1] and want to exit at [Pin4] (i.e. going straight on).
Now,
(1) I assume when I enter at Pin1 its perfectly fine for me to be in the outer lane ti continue straight? I assume this because both outer lanes have direction arrows showing it's OK to continue straight (as indicated in Pin2). Or is it the case that the outer lane is always expected to filter out?
(2) There are 2 lanes Going straight as indicated in Pin2, so what happens in the situation as indicated by Pin3, where a car in the second outer lane (counting from the right as shown on pin2) wants to exit? (a) Is it allowed to or not? (b) Is it a case for looking or a gap and just exiting?
(3) Assume I get to Pin4, functionally this is the same as if I had just entered at the last entrace to the roundabout and want to continue straight. Would it be wrong for me to continue straight in the outer lane or second lane (counting from the right). Effectively, with traffic lights controlling flow could I circle the roundabout in the outer lane in this case?
(4) Similarly, imagine at position [Pin3], where I'm in the outer lane I decide I want to circle the roundabout in the inner lane. Would it be OK for me to indicate and move into the innermost lane?
I guess my major issue is, am I allowed to literally follow road-signs? I know it's convention that the outermost lane exits after the stop lights at every exit but would I be at fault if I continue straight? If I'm not at fault how is this compatible with people in the second lane next to me (on the right) wanting to leave the roundabout? Either I'll stop them exiting or they'll crash into me. Who would be at fault in this situation?
Also, generally what's the best course of action when negotiating such big roundabouts without local knowledge? I usually aim for outer lane (left) middle lane (straight) or inner lane (right) and work my way out cautiously. Is this the done thing?
Thanks for your help.
Best answer: Forget the arrows, you really have to look at the roads that are marked on the lanes.
For the A690, you need to be in the middle lane at pin2. You can then either stay in the middle lane or move to the outermost lane, as both lanes are labelled A690.
If you did stay in the outer lane at pin2, I doubt anyone is going to mind, as the middle lane carries on round, and does not exit at pin3.
HOWEVER, if you did that at pin4, you'd cause problems. At this junction, the middle lane is signed for the A690, so middle lane drivers will be expecting to be able to leave the roundabout.
posted by saintsguy at 4:29 AM on September 18, 2011
For the A690, you need to be in the middle lane at pin2. You can then either stay in the middle lane or move to the outermost lane, as both lanes are labelled A690.
If you did stay in the outer lane at pin2, I doubt anyone is going to mind, as the middle lane carries on round, and does not exit at pin3.
HOWEVER, if you did that at pin4, you'd cause problems. At this junction, the middle lane is signed for the A690, so middle lane drivers will be expecting to be able to leave the roundabout.
posted by saintsguy at 4:29 AM on September 18, 2011
Best answer: At pin 1, if you want to go to the car park, you'd need to enter the left hand lane and follow the black car down City Way. You could enter in the right hand lane, but there will also be traffic coming round the island in the innermost lane, so anything entering the island from the right hand lane will move into the middle island lane. You'd be bets off entering the island from the right hand lane, getting into the middle island lane and then diverging into the left hand lane to continue on. The corollary to this is "what is underneath pin 2?" If it's a left arrow, stay in the middle lane to continue on.
If the white car by the A690 sign wants to go down the slip road onto the A19, the driver has left it a bit late. S/he will have to manoeuvre across two lanes of traffic in a short space.
It's good road manners to let someone into your lane, but you don't have to. If I was in the position of the driver of the white car, maybe in an unfamiliar area, I'd call you nasty names if you deliberately blocked the way off. You are within your rights to stay in that lane and continue on, though.
At pin 4, if you want to continue on round the island, you'd need to be in the middle lane. Those in the innermost lane at this point will definitely be going round the island, and those in the outermost lane will be definitely be turning off down the A690. Those in the middle lane at pin 4 can either exit down the A690 (onto the right hand lane of that road) or can continue straight on. Traffic will possibly be merging here, so keep your eyes peeled.
posted by Solomon at 4:39 AM on September 18, 2011
If the white car by the A690 sign wants to go down the slip road onto the A19, the driver has left it a bit late. S/he will have to manoeuvre across two lanes of traffic in a short space.
It's good road manners to let someone into your lane, but you don't have to. If I was in the position of the driver of the white car, maybe in an unfamiliar area, I'd call you nasty names if you deliberately blocked the way off. You are within your rights to stay in that lane and continue on, though.
At pin 4, if you want to continue on round the island, you'd need to be in the middle lane. Those in the innermost lane at this point will definitely be going round the island, and those in the outermost lane will be definitely be turning off down the A690. Those in the middle lane at pin 4 can either exit down the A690 (onto the right hand lane of that road) or can continue straight on. Traffic will possibly be merging here, so keep your eyes peeled.
posted by Solomon at 4:39 AM on September 18, 2011
Best answer: (1) I assume when I enter at Pin1 its perfectly fine for me to be in the outer lane to continue straight? I assume this because both outer lanes have direction arrows showing it's OK to continue straight (as indicated in Pin2). Or is it the case that the outer lane is always expected to filter out?
Looking at the picture, I would say that the outer lane at pin 1 is for turning left only, so you would need to be in the middle lane if you wanted to go straight ahead. This middle lane just before pin 2 splits again (as you mention below), so if you want to go left at the second exit, you'd need to position your car in the left most lane after the split. You could go straight ahead if you wanted, but if you wanted to go left, you'd need to be in this lane, you couldn't be in the middle lane because of the issue you identify, that of the car in the middle lane cutting across the cars in the left most lane.
(3) Assume I get to Pin4, functionally this is the same as if I had just entered at the last entrace to the roundabout and want to continue straight. Would it be wrong for me to continue
straight in the outer lane or second lane (counting from the right). Effectively, with traffic lights controlling flow could I circle the roundabout in the outer lane in this case?
At this exit, if you're in the two left most lanes, then yes, you can go straight ahead, but you'd need to merge into the same lane at the exit and not switch. So, if you were in the left most lane, you'd need to stay in this lane as you exit, and ditto if you were in the middle lane, when you'd exited, you'd be in the right hand lane.
(4) Similarly, imagine at position [Pin3], where I'm in the outer lane I decide I want to circle the roundabout in the inner lane. Would it be OK for me to indicate and move into the innermost lane?
It depends on how busy it is to be honest. If it's quiet, then yeah, go for it. If it's busy, then I'd say 'no'. Trying to cross lanes of traffic on a roundabout is a sure-fire way to get honked at.
posted by Scottie_Bob at 4:41 AM on September 18, 2011
Looking at the picture, I would say that the outer lane at pin 1 is for turning left only, so you would need to be in the middle lane if you wanted to go straight ahead. This middle lane just before pin 2 splits again (as you mention below), so if you want to go left at the second exit, you'd need to position your car in the left most lane after the split. You could go straight ahead if you wanted, but if you wanted to go left, you'd need to be in this lane, you couldn't be in the middle lane because of the issue you identify, that of the car in the middle lane cutting across the cars in the left most lane.
(3) Assume I get to Pin4, functionally this is the same as if I had just entered at the last entrace to the roundabout and want to continue straight. Would it be wrong for me to continue
straight in the outer lane or second lane (counting from the right). Effectively, with traffic lights controlling flow could I circle the roundabout in the outer lane in this case?
At this exit, if you're in the two left most lanes, then yes, you can go straight ahead, but you'd need to merge into the same lane at the exit and not switch. So, if you were in the left most lane, you'd need to stay in this lane as you exit, and ditto if you were in the middle lane, when you'd exited, you'd be in the right hand lane.
(4) Similarly, imagine at position [Pin3], where I'm in the outer lane I decide I want to circle the roundabout in the inner lane. Would it be OK for me to indicate and move into the innermost lane?
It depends on how busy it is to be honest. If it's quiet, then yeah, go for it. If it's busy, then I'd say 'no'. Trying to cross lanes of traffic on a roundabout is a sure-fire way to get honked at.
posted by Scottie_Bob at 4:41 AM on September 18, 2011
Best answer: (1) Outer lane is fine, though this almost immediately becomes the middle lane for the purposes of avoiding the car park exit and carrying on round the roundabout.
(2) At pin2, a car in the middle lane wanting to exit has essentially arsed things up (easy to do, as you can probably understand). To minimise danger it should probably circle the roundabout, moving to the outer lane at the appropriate point but many people will just give way to traffic in the outer lane before exiting (causing people behind them in the middle lane to wait).
(3) If you have stopped in the outer lane at the traffic lights at pin 4, then you really should exit at the next exit because the middle lane is allowed to exit there as well. Carrying on round the roundabout is liable to be dangerous, though of course we've all seen it done.
(4) Indicating and changing lanes is generally fine so long as it's not done at an exit.
The general strategy that you mention (outer=left, middle=straight, inner=right) is sound but you need to pay attention to the road markings because the number of lanes that exit or enter at any given point have a bearing on what each roundabout lane can do. This is why you cannot apply a single rule even all the way around the same roundabout.
posted by MUD at 7:05 AM on September 18, 2011
(2) At pin2, a car in the middle lane wanting to exit has essentially arsed things up (easy to do, as you can probably understand). To minimise danger it should probably circle the roundabout, moving to the outer lane at the appropriate point but many people will just give way to traffic in the outer lane before exiting (causing people behind them in the middle lane to wait).
(3) If you have stopped in the outer lane at the traffic lights at pin 4, then you really should exit at the next exit because the middle lane is allowed to exit there as well. Carrying on round the roundabout is liable to be dangerous, though of course we've all seen it done.
(4) Indicating and changing lanes is generally fine so long as it's not done at an exit.
The general strategy that you mention (outer=left, middle=straight, inner=right) is sound but you need to pay attention to the road markings because the number of lanes that exit or enter at any given point have a bearing on what each roundabout lane can do. This is why you cannot apply a single rule even all the way around the same roundabout.
posted by MUD at 7:05 AM on September 18, 2011
This has been asked before, for the Great Cambridge Roundabout in London, you might find that thread useful.
posted by Helga-woo at 2:23 PM on September 18, 2011
posted by Helga-woo at 2:23 PM on September 18, 2011
Oh, right, ok, you asked that previous question as well.
Maybe you might want to look into booking a lesson or two with a driving instructor and asking them to take you through a few different roundabouts to help build your confidence.
posted by Helga-woo at 2:29 PM on September 18, 2011
Maybe you might want to look into booking a lesson or two with a driving instructor and asking them to take you through a few different roundabouts to help build your confidence.
posted by Helga-woo at 2:29 PM on September 18, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Dysk at 4:14 AM on September 18, 2011