Can "sluts" find love, too?
September 10, 2011 11:05 AM   Subscribe

Please help me lick my wounds. I need some advice on how to get over rejection and find someone who doesn't think I'm a slut.

Background: 21-year-old female college student. Mr. Almost-Right was 24 and taking a few years off from undergrad.

What happened: Met on OKCupid, went on a date on Monday, had sex Tuesday and Wednesday, just spent half a weekend with Mr. Almost-Right. Sex was okay once he felt comfortable enough to sustain an erection with me, but he was extremely affectionate outside of sex - all week. This morning/afternoon, I got hit with the following:

He said: "I have a high sex drive, but I want someone who will yell at me and push me back. I want somewhat of a bully, someone with whom debates get nasty enough to start blurring the line between real and play. Someone who will fight with me. You're...too nice. And you seem really willing to have sex all the time. It seems like you also want someone who is more dominant (side note: this isn't really true). But I'd love to be friends-with-benefits with you."

What I heard: "You're a slut - not good enough to date, but definitely good enough to be ass-on-call."

Basically, I got blindsided. We had discussions prior to our first date, and he IDed as a feminist; that's why I felt comfortable sleeping with him early on, even though I normally don't. Now I feel like I missed out on someone good for having sex too early. AND I feel like I'm never going to find anyone who sees me as good enough, while feeling ashamed for allowing my high sex drive to override reason.

How do I get over this - or even better, use his words to my advantage in terms of making sure this doesn't happen again? Or should I just not make the mistake of sleeping with someone before the third date? Part of why I'm devastated (that may be too strong of a word) is because I feel like I'm not going to find anyone, especially with the bad luck I continue to have in this field. What can I do to attract men who are from similar schools of thought as me, and not lose them?

Also, sorry for ranting. Thank you in advance for your advice, guys.
posted by Ashen to Human Relations (71 answers total) 11 users marked this as a favorite

 
Best answer: You didn't miss out on someone good by having sex so early, you found out he was a hypocritical jerk who thrives on fighting and drama early on.
posted by jeather at 11:07 AM on September 10, 2011 [103 favorites]


It's not that you missed out on someone good because you had sex too early. It's just that you found out more quickly than you might have otherwise that he was not a good match for you.
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:07 AM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


Now I feel like I missed out on someone good for having sex too early.

Wrong, completely wrong. A good mate isn't going to judge you for having sex too early. Sounds like you dodged the bullet on this one and found out early on that he's a fucking douche.

Also, never feel ashamed for having sex when you want to have sex. Anyone who is going to judge you on it isn't worth your time.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:10 AM on September 10, 2011 [38 favorites]


yeah, relax, this guy's a nimrod. there's nothing wrong with you.
posted by facetious at 11:12 AM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


He's not even necessarily a douche, he just knows he wants an edgier relationship. That's a pretty specific desire, and definitely not something you want to force yourself into doing. It has nothing to do with "good enough" - it's just a personality thing.

I'd decline the friends-with-benefits, though, for sure - if the sex is only marginal for him, and I knew it, I'd find it pretty bleh myself, and friends-with-benefits is tough enough to navigate emotionally with people you're, you know, actually friends with.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:15 AM on September 10, 2011 [9 favorites]


Okay wait so he doesn't like you because you were "really willing to have sex" and he has "a high sex drive" but didn't feel "comfortable enough to sustain an erection"? None of this is making any sense and I gather he's just making stuff up to cover up some of his own insecurities and because he didn't really like you much to begin with.
posted by rhapsodie at 11:15 AM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


Yup, just chiming in as a guy who's a feminist and likes sex. You sound great. Dude sounds like he's got major hangups around women and sex.

Dude's not Mr. Almost Right. More like Mr. Dodged Bullet.
posted by auto-correct at 11:16 AM on September 10, 2011 [35 favorites]


He's not calling you a slut. He sounds like someone who wants a certain kind of power play in his relationships, and that doesn't appear to be either your kink or your style. Also, you're not psychic. He has some really particular requirements, you didn't meet them. That's fine, it's no fault of yours, and his failure to communicate any of that with respect is his problem.

It just happened, so you're stinging still, but in a couple of weeks you'll have a better perspective on this.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:16 AM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


Aside from everything else in his very odd email, it's really hypocritical for him to frame his own sexual urges positively ("I have a high sex drive") and then criticise you for being "really willing to have sex all the time". This is not someone you want to be FWB with.
posted by hot soup girl at 11:17 AM on September 10, 2011 [35 favorites]


He had sex with you really early on too. Its totally hypocritical for him to judge you for the same thing he was doing. You shouldn't listen to the opinion of hypocrites.

This guy is just a creep and you're really lucky you found out so soon. You did nothing wrong, I know its really upsetting but try not to let this change the way you think about sex and relationships because it shouldn't.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 11:17 AM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


What a ding-dong that dude is. HE is the one that went about things all wrong. He made a judgment without really asking, finding out or listening to 1) who you are, 2) what type of woman you can be or 3) what fun you two could *really* have. Now he doesn't get to know. And he doesn't even know that he's missing out! (And it should stay that way.)

The funny thing is, he'll keep screwing this one up (pun intended). And he'll be the frustrated one who doesn't get what he wants. You got laid and it was fun, yay!
posted by iamkimiam at 11:18 AM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


Oh, honestly. You shouldn't have any wounds from this turdball.

"I have a high sex drive, but I want someone who will yell at me and push me back."

This does not compute. If he meant in bed, he should have asked for it. Outside of bed, this is stupid.

"I want somewhat of a bully, someone with whom debates get nasty enough to start blurring the line between real and play. Someone who will fight with me. You're...too nice."


He's known you for a week, and he wants to have nasty debates already? [rolls eyes] Run away from this drama queen.

"And you seem really willing to have sex all the time."


Really? This is a negative to him? What a fool.

"It seems like you also want someone who is more dominant (side note: this isn't really true)."

A week. A WEEK he's known you for. Tell him to stuff the pseudo-analysis.

"But I'd love to be friends-with-benefits with you."

Oh. My Fucking. God.

Dear Nimrod.

It was fun, but the sex wasn't really that great. Thanks but no thanks, hope you find what you're looking for.

Ashen
posted by HopperFan at 11:18 AM on September 10, 2011 [37 favorites]


You're a slut - not good enough to date, but definitely good enough to be ass-on-call

IMO when he says you're willing to have sex all the time, he's not saying you're a slut, he's saying he wants someone who will make him work for it, someone who says no to him... possibly makes him beg for it (either that or makes him force himself on her but given what he said about you wanting someone more dominant... I'd vote for the begging). My read of his comments is that you're decent enough in bed but ultimately not what he's looking for in a sexual partner but until that person comes along he still wants to be getting laid and you'll do. He's a dick and you should forget about him but I don't think he thinks you're a slut.
posted by missmagenta at 11:19 AM on September 10, 2011 [19 favorites]


This seems... unpleasant. Why would you ID yourself as a feminist and then be so self-centered around your own needs and desires? I honestly would have a lot of trouble "IDing" as a feminist in the first place--as a guy, it really seems like something I would rather show, not tell. I also don't know about any positive interpretation of this--I really have trouble thinking that this guy showed any kind of maturity in this situation at all.
posted by goodglovin77 at 11:21 AM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Best answer: Something that I had to learn doing the OKCupid thing was to be more okay with putting myself - my real self - out there, even if it meant being rejected sooner by most people. I had this funny idea that I should construct a profile to represent what I thought the people on there would want to date, instead of just giving an accurate synopsis of myself. This led to lots of long, awkward messaging back and forth before both parties figured out we weren't actually all that interested.

Finally, I decided to just suck it up and be truthful. This meant being more open and honest about things that are generally considered "lame" in the dating pool at large, but also meant that being seen as "lame" sooner rather than later could filter out all of these people with whom I really wasn't compatible at all.

In the end, it took a long time and a lot of awkwardness, but I found the right person, and a year and a half later we're engaged. The standard MeFi relationship advice of "communicate already" applies online, too - just be open and upfront about who you are. Sometimes it'll mean people don't like it. Forget them. Better to know sooner than later Mr. Almost-Right is in fact Mr. Really-Quite-Wrong so you can devote your efforts to the search for Mr. Right-F'reals.
posted by Rallon at 11:21 AM on September 10, 2011 [10 favorites]


It's beneath contempt for this person to indulge in sex with you and then use the fact that you had sex with you as a disqualifier for any relationship other than "friends with benefits."

That guy is a child. Be glad you found this out early.
posted by jayder at 11:22 AM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


This is also a dude who, because he didn't communicate what he really wanted, didn't get what he wanted. And is now putting all that BS on you, way after the fact. Just leave it there, as the last thing said. Maybe in a freak streak of introspection he'll revisit how things keep ending for him. But you'll be over it and not care, trust me.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:22 AM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your replies. Small clarification: the rejection was done in person. Right after sex, actually. Missmagenta has it when it comes to the "push back" re: sex. He wanted someone who would tell him no and rein his horniness in. The comment about me wanting to have sex too much was also paired with "you seem to have sex with anyone who wants it" as he drove me home...I mean I could tell he felt some kind of way about me being polyamorous DESPITE being open to it, but OMG.

Seriously, though? How do I find men who DON'T think this way? Where are they?
posted by Ashen at 11:26 AM on September 10, 2011


What I heard: "You're a slut - not good enough to date, but definitely good enough to be ass-on-call."

Really? Because here's what I heard: "I'm out of my mind, and I really only like having sex with women when they give me an indication that they don't want to have sex with me. I have serious issues around power and control that would make me a nightmare to date. You're lucky to get rid of me so easily. You didn't dodge a bullet, you dodged a firing squad."
posted by Ragged Richard at 11:27 AM on September 10, 2011 [102 favorites]


Best answer: Dude has major hang-ups. The hot and cold thing is very misleading - no wonder you feel blindsided - you were!

Honestly? He sounds like someone who is kinky AND has hang ups about his kinky desires. Kinky is great, but not accepting your sexuality and feeling good about yourself means a relationship with this person would NEVER have worked out.

Lastly. Happy people don't do bad things.

He doesn't feel good about himself so he toyed with your emotions a made you feel bad. That's about him and his problems, not you!
posted by jbenben at 11:27 AM on September 10, 2011 [11 favorites]


I think people are coming down on this dude way too fucking hard.

What I'm reading is that he knows what he wants a lot better than you do. You both made the decision to jump into this thing without knowing each other too well. He found out first that it wasn't what he wanted. No harm, no foul. It's not his responsibility or obligation to expend a massive effort to let you down easy in a relationship that didn't even last one week.

Stop beating yourself up about this. You wanted something different. He is not mister almost right. He doesn't want a relationship with you which makes him Mister Totally Wrong. He didn't call you a slut—you called yourself that. Stop doing that, or at least so long as you think that word is bad.

You rushed in too fast, you thought you saw something and you thought it was what you wanted. You were wrong, it wasn't what you wanted. Are you really sure you even know what you want?

You're young. You're not mature and experienced. This is how you gain it. There's nothing wrong with you. Maybe you shouldn't be rushing in so fast. On the other hand, look how fast you found out he wasn't Mr. Right after all. You're fine and you will meet people who are better for you, guaranteed.
posted by cold dead hans at 11:28 AM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


Ragged Richard is a hundred thousand percent correct.
posted by jbenben at 11:30 AM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Best answer: What can I do to attract men who are from similar schools of thought as me, and not lose them?

Your time table is way, waaaaaay too short, here. You had three dates with this guy. You've known him for a week. You did not lose him, because after a week you weren't even close to being in a relationship with him yet. Forget about the silly "slut" issue, or when you should sleep with new guys, or adjusting your tactics, you need to get these crazy unrealistic expectations out of your head. If you think he was "Mr. Almost Right" after a week, an not "Mr. I Barely Know This Dude Yet", you're not jumping the gun sexually but emotionally, and it's going to cause you a lot of heartbreak even if you never run into another scumbag like this asshole again.

This is also a dude who, because he didn't communicate what he really wanted, didn't get what he wanted.

I don't understand the commenters who say something like this. He did get what he wanted, which was NSA sex. That's clearly what he wanted, since after he took a crap on the prospects of an actual relationship, he was still after the bootycall action. He's not secretly pining after a relationship with the "right" girl, or whatever, he's just headfucking the girls he hooks up with. He probably thinks he'll be more successful that way, and he might even be right. He's just a scumbag for not being honest about that, but he's not actually hurting himself at all.
posted by heemuh at 11:37 AM on September 10, 2011 [8 favorites]


How do I find men who DON'T think this way? Where are they?

Everywhere! Most men are not like that. If you're picking the d-bags every time, try going out with someone you wouldn't normally have picked. I'm not saying you have to date someone you find repulsive but if picking the guys you're most attracted to/think you're most compatible is getting you nothing but jerks, its time to give the 'maybe' pile a go.
posted by missmagenta at 11:38 AM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


I don't agree with cold dead hans putting this on you, AT ALL. You didn't rush in too quickly, you thought you had a connection and spark with this guy. I don't see anything immature about what you did. This guy is sociopathically mean to tell you "you seem like you have sex with whoever wants it." That's a pretty seriously fucked-up, cruel thing to say to someone you were just intimate with.
posted by jayder at 11:40 AM on September 10, 2011 [14 favorites]


What the hell kind of feminist is that? Why would he want someone to yell at him and push him around for no reason? And he says you're the one with the problem? Hah, I don't think so. Move on.
posted by citron at 11:40 AM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Oh yeah, this is part of the fun of identifying as polyamorous, the dudes who want to have sex with you then be like "god you have sex with people SO WEIRD let me vomit my issues onto you"

Fuck this guy, he is mad because he has a hard time keeping an erection, likely due to some unexplored kinkiness or misogyny or other issue, and he wants to blame it on you.

Hang in there. There are guys out there who are NOT like this.
posted by the young rope-rider at 11:42 AM on September 10, 2011 [16 favorites]


Seconding Cold dead hans.

This dude is a submissive male. He wants a dominant female. Because you didn't resist his moves towards sex, he sees you as submissive too. He realizes this and is telling you right out that ultimately it's not going to be a match. You're reading into the part where you think he's calling you a slut. It's just a difference in preference of sexual style.
posted by NoraCharles at 11:43 AM on September 10, 2011 [8 favorites]


Small clarification: the rejection was done in person. Right after sex, actually.

Really, the only salient comment to be made after this revelation is "fuck him". Seriously.
posted by munchingzombie at 11:43 AM on September 10, 2011 [6 favorites]


Also you're not a slut because you had sex with a guy you found attractive, for crying out loud. This is 2011, not Victorian England. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman willing to have sex a lot if she wants to. I suppose he was looking for a "feminist" woman who matched up with some absurd stereotype in his head of a pushy, cold, bossy lady who doesn't like men, instead of an actual feminist woman who believes all people should be treated equally and with respect?
posted by citron at 11:47 AM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


He's really judgmental. Liking sex, and choosing to have sex with a willing partner is just fine, for women and men. He chose the same thing; is he a slut? No, because only women can be sluts, um, wait, that's kind of sexist. He's not a feminist.

I think you you probably would benefit from being a bit more critical of people. Critical in the same sense as critical thinking: involving skillful judgment as to truth, merit, etc.; judicial: a critical analysis. And I think you would benefit from valuing yourself more highly, and not taking this kind of crap. He's got some issues. They aren't your fault. You deserve a much nicer boyfriend, and better sex.
posted by theora55 at 11:48 AM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I think the "really willing" comment meant "I get off on pushback and conflict." Don't interpret it as a judgment of your character or anything.

He wants something very, very specific from a partner. Most people don't have such exact standards for how they want interactions to go, so odds are good that the next fellow you find will like you as you are.

Also, I'd be very wary of someone who liked blurring the lines between real conflict and play conflict. He sounds like the kind of guy who might upset someone and blame them for "taking it too personally," or who thinks safewords are for wimps, etc. It's actually a good thing that he put his weirdness on the table so early and spared you a ton of drama and confusion.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:49 AM on September 10, 2011 [5 favorites]


...he IDed as a feminist; that's why I felt comfortable sleeping with him early on, even though I normally don't

People will say anything to get laid.

Not your fault, this guy seems to have a lot of hang-ups.
posted by clearlydemon at 11:55 AM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


...he IDed as a feminist; that's why I felt comfortable sleeping with him early on, even though I normally don't

People will say anything to get laid.


This. Also, he probably thinks feminist = power suit wearing ball-breaker from some bad 90s stereotype.
posted by missmagenta at 11:58 AM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


How about this: HE'S a slut.

Okay, as insults go, that's not really all that accurate.

But notice how he got you to insult yourself on his behalf? I don't think it's kinky or "edgy" to have sex with you and then deliberately make you feel bad about yourself in the hope that you'll find the feelings of rejection so painful that you rush back and give him more opportunities to reject you. That's what I think he's playing at. That's just flat-out meanness and bullying and now he's inviting you to get into an abusive relationship with him.

By not running after him and going, "no, wait! I'll take you on any terms you're offering", YOU are rejecting HIM.

Pay attention to what I just wrote. By not running after him and going, "no, wait! I'll take you on any terms you're offering", YOU are rejecting HIM.

And you should reject him! Awful awful awful man. Awful. Horrible horrible evil man. Horrible.
posted by tel3path at 11:59 AM on September 10, 2011 [3 favorites]


Best answer: Also, I will say that whether or not he is a submissive male, the way he approached this was rude, rude, rude.

I have a lot of sympathy for submissive men. It's not easy for them to be up front about their desires in a socially acceptable way and I'm sure that many bad sexual experiences and mismatches result.

However, they sometimes get into this entitlement-to-sexual-pleasure kick where they think it's cool to never communicate their needs and then criticize when they don't get met. Every woman who doesn't intuit their exact desire for submissive sex is "secretly submissive" or subject to passive aggressive critique of how we're not porn-y enough to be "truly" dominant.

If it gives you any schadenfreude, most dominant women see his kind coming a mile away and avoid them like the plague.
posted by the young rope-rider at 11:59 AM on September 10, 2011 [12 favorites]


And Ragged Richard for emperor.
posted by tel3path at 12:03 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


And you seem really willing to have sex all the time.

This statement right here? This marks him as being a worthless piece of shit. Fuck his immature headgames.
posted by elizardbits at 12:08 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


I was going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt: he wasn't calling you a slut, he was just being very up front with you (if overly blunt) about how his particular kinks don't match your personality.

But then I got to this part:
the rejection was done in person. Right after sex, actually.

So much for the benefit of the doubt. What a jerk.
posted by ook at 12:09 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


I don't understand him as saying you had sex too early, I understand him as saying that he essentially wants to play out a rape fantasy where you fight and resist him and he play-forces sex on you. The problem is not that you're a slut, it's that he isn't good at communicating his kink or introducing it into sexual encounters. He seems to think the play-force should happen organically, whereas in reality it's up to him to communicate his desires to a partner who can then elect to participate in the role-play. Long story short, this does not sound to me like it is the least bit about you OR about you being slutty or easy or whatever shitty word you want to use.
posted by prefpara at 12:26 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


There's nothing wrong *at all* with having a high sex drive. The hard truth is that many men are terrified of female sexuality and of its power over men. This is perhaps why that cad treated you the way he did. Learn from the experience and know that there are far better men out there who will love you and respect you as the woman you are.
posted by runningdogofcapitalism at 12:26 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


All y'alls are missing the point here - the guy isn't saying "you want to have sex all the time" is a bad thing morally, he's saying he wants her to not want sex as part of his kink. He's not judging her at all -- he's just explaining that the kind of sex she wants is not the kind he's into.
posted by modernserf at 12:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


Best answer: This guy seems like he may be a jerk, and is certainly a poor communicator upfront, but at least you haven't lost too much by it. Please don't over-generalise it; it was one guy, one week - not all your relationships with men will be like this, and it says more about him than you.

Or should I just not make the mistake of sleeping with someone before the third date?
I personally don't see the need for hard and fast rules - sleep with someone when you're ready (FWIW, my partner and I (M, hetero) slept together on the 2nd date and we've been together 7 years).

Part of why I'm devastated (that may be too strong of a word) is because I feel like I'm not going to find anyone, especially with the bad luck I continue to have in this field.

You're 21 and you have your whole life ahead of you. Plenty of time! (My parents divorced and both remarried in their 50s, think of how many people you know who've found a life partner at an older age).

What can I do to attract men who are from similar schools of thought as me, and not lose them?

Make sure people know what your school of thought is, as someone said above. Put it in your OK Cupid profile. You may still attract players, but if you're upfront about who you are and what you want, then you'll attract the right ones, too.
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:38 PM on September 10, 2011


Best answer: This guy called himself a feminist because he thinks a feminist = dominant woman = willing to order him around in bed, make him work for sex, etc. He's wrong, but that by itself would not be so bad. He seems to know what he wants sexually; he's a submissive male, and there's nothing wrong with that.

But he didn't tell you until after you had sex, TWICE that he wanted a dominant female partner, and he did it in a way that made you feel bad about yourself. Yeah, that sucks. He's a jerk. What an utterly douchebag move to make on his part.

Instead of saying, "Hey, I like women to order me around, make me fight for sex, can we role-play that?" he rejected you AND offered up a sex-with-benefits relationship. Which would benefit who, exactly? You want a relationship with a decent guy and he wants a dominatrix who can read his mind. Definitely NO.

He told you afterwards that you were "too nice" and "really willing to have sex all the time." Okay, I'll just say this once: not only should you not feel bad about this, if you put it on your OKCupid profile men would be lining up at your door. You don't have a bunch of sexual baggage. That's a plus! You. Are. A. Catch.

Forget about the slut stuff, or the "you seem to have sex with anyone who wants it"--this man has guilt and shame issues that have nothing to do with you. You're not a slut! You know what you want sexually, too, and you thought this guy was it. You were wrong about him--good thing to find out early. You dodged a bullet there. Move on.

Your follow-up about how to stay away from guys like this? That's tough. Even if you communicate really well before you have sex, there's always a possibility of something like this happening, because some people will misrepresent themselves just to have NSA sex.

Sometimes you just have to kiss a lot of toads before you find that prince, you know?
posted by misha at 12:38 PM on September 10, 2011 [17 favorites]


Personally, I wouldn't date a guy who made a big deal out of identifying as a feminist. I hate to stereotype but a good chunk of men who do are sort of bottomy guys who liked to be pushed around by women, and this guy fits right in. So that's one lesson to be learned.

Anyway, you really dodged a bullet. Would you want to be with a guy who was this submissive?
posted by timsneezed at 12:46 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also, he probably thinks feminist = power suit wearing ball-breaker from some bad 90s stereotype.

80s, I guess, but still.
posted by pullayup at 12:55 PM on September 10, 2011


You asked how to find men who aren't like this, which I find a bit bizarre. This guy is clearly a weirdo.

One way is to not meet men on sites like OKCupid that probably attract a disproportionate number of weirdos. I know there are normal people on there, but in general I think online dating, and especially sites like OKC, draw more "offbeat" people who have trouble connecting with folks in real life.

If you're going to continue dating on OKC, you might want to do more filtering before you meet in person. Ask more questions in advance of meeting to make sure you're on the same page.

Also, hold off on intimacy until you really know the guy.
posted by timsneezed at 12:55 PM on September 10, 2011



Aside from everything else in his very odd email, it's really hypocritical for him to frame his own sexual urges positively ("I have a high sex drive") and then criticise you for being "really willing to have sex all the time". This is not someone you want to be FWB with.


No kidding. What a tool.

Enjoying sex, and/or putting out on the first date, doesn't make anyone a slut, any more than wearing tight pants does. Equally, saying one is a feminist doesn't make it so; actions speak a lot louder than words on that front.

The good thing is that you were able to figure out that things aren't going to work after only a week -- imagine if he hid his desires for a year or two and then dumped this on you?

Seriously, though? How do I find men who DON'T think this way? Where are they?

All over the place. All of us are assholes in our own ways, but not many men are going to be an asshole in this specific way. Many, if not most, people would be delighted to have a partner who had the confidence to enjoy sex and make it good for both people. If you are having a pattern of sleeping with guys and then feeling used and discarded, you might want to experiment with slowing things down. Not getting all Rules on their asses, but slowing things just enough to filter out the guys who are only interested in getting some quick action and moving on.
posted by Forktine at 1:03 PM on September 10, 2011 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you so much - all of you - for your responses. I feel SO much better after having read what you guys had to say...

Before I mark this one as resolved - what are some good dating sites that I should use? It's generally hard for me to hang out downtown since I'm really busy, which is why I've been using OKC.
posted by Ashen at 2:16 PM on September 10, 2011


Maybe I'm just a weird old, but can't you find people at school? I felt like school and just post school was all about meeting people all over the place for dating. Join a club? Also when I was in college the idea of dating someone outside of college age just didn't appeal to me.
posted by sweetkid at 2:35 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Getting here late, but I broke up earlier this summer with a dude who sounds really similar. He got pissed at me because I didn't want to get into nasty fights with him and refused to call him nasty names (?!), and claimed to be a feminist but also subtly made me feel kind of weird/shame about having more sexual experience/previous partners than him. I dodged a bullet, and so did you, girlfriend.

For what it's worth, he and I met on okc, but I have also met some really lovely guys from there. I wouldn't give up on okc, dumb asses are there in equal proportion to real life (for what it's worth, all my exes I met "in real life" first were incredible asses)
posted by mostly vowels at 2:36 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ashen: I may have been too disparaging of OLD. If you have trouble meeting guys in real life because of your circumstances, I don't think online dating is a TERRIBLE way to go. It's not ideal, of course, because I think higher quality men are less likely to use online dating (seems to be more true of men than women for whatever reason). But you can still find some cool guys online if you do a lot of weeding.

I mentioned that OKC draws a disproportionate number of weird guys, but other sites present their own problems -- the men on Match are probably less intelligent/educated and interesting on average, the guys on eHarmony tend to be more conservative and religious...etc.

I was on OKC for a bit and I was very selective about who I met up with. I also messaged some guys first rather than just responding to messages I received because often the more desirable guys are less inclined to make first contact. In general be selective, pay close attention to how they answer their match questions.

What you have to be careful with on OKC is the high proportion of men who are either a) serial monogamists who are more into being in a relationship than with a specific person and b) guys who are looking for an endless supply of booty and possibly a relationship if somebody "cool" enough to change them comes along *eye roll*. There are lots of those. Also be wary of guys who have been on the site for eons.
posted by timsneezed at 2:53 PM on September 10, 2011


Mod note: your fruitfucking quips are hilarious but are not answers to the question, alas.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:02 PM on September 10, 2011 [4 favorites]


I didn't read "slut" anywhere in the things he said, as reported by you. Sounds like you both might have some hang-ups/misconceptions.
posted by jitterbug perfume at 5:29 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Best answer: This one’s a catch and release. But, forget the fishing analogy.

Just chalk it up to another OkCupid "haha” moment. Boy is not worth your time. Trust.

I hope, for your sake, that at the very least the sex was enjoyable. As a friend once said, "There's no excuse for bad sex." This is just another story to regale your friends with, and a good story to laugh about later, but nothing more. A blip. On the radar and gone.

If you want to make it better for you, just start moving your fingers to the left. Tell him to "keep talking that mess", but make sure he "walks and talks at the same time" (out of your life). Go ahead, girl. Be happy this was so short and to the point. Protect your psyche, make sure the sex you have is good for you (and safer), and for all the other stuff, trust&respect yourself. Okay, cheers.
posted by simulacra at 6:55 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Seriously, though? How do I find men who DON'T think this way? Where are they?

They're everywhere (hi there!), but the younger crowd is disproportionately hung up over these things and at 24 a lot of people know better but it's still young enough that plenty don't.

My observation is that it takes a few rides around the relationship wheel for people to grow up about this stuff. Unfortunately, of those who have had more relationships, many end up bitter or jaded instead, so it's not like the slightly older crowd is without its own disproportionate issues, but the particular dumbassery in question is something that you can look forward to getting better.

I find it also depends on social circles - some scenes are very aware of these things, and some scenes are... not.

I recommend OKcupid. I've tried a few pay sites, but I keep ending up at OKcupid.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:56 PM on September 10, 2011


It's not ideal, of course, because I think higher quality men are less likely to use online dating (seems to be more true of men than women for whatever reason). But you can still find some cool guys online if you do a lot of weeding.

I'm a guy, and you note it's less true of women, but my feeling is that this has tipped or is tipping - it used to be the case that you couldn't really meet the best people online, now it seems to be more the case that you can't really meet the best people OFF-line - they have full, busy lives, and online dating means they don't need to be spending their time at places where they might meet people, they can concentrate on doing productive stuff and let the internet find people to meet.

Unfortunately, like a lot of people, I don't "profile" online as well as I do in person, and some people are the opposite, and that can make it hard to find the people you want to find :-/
posted by -harlequin- at 7:07 PM on September 10, 2011


Oh, and this:
and he IDed as a feminist
means exactly zero. His actions, words, and how you feel around him are all you need to know. Forget the professed ideology and political leanings. If you want to get technical, just disabuse him of his assumed adroitness with praxis. Praxis fail.
posted by simulacra at 7:07 PM on September 10, 2011 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thank you, everyone.

The guy in question ended up texting me tonight to ask me to hang out - he "thought we were friends too, and he didn't mean it like that" - but I am taking this experience as a moment to become wiser.

Once again, thank you. MetaFilter is awesome. :)
posted by Ashen at 9:57 PM on September 10, 2011 [11 favorites]


Best answer: There is nothing wrong with you. You are a healthy young woman with a young woman's sex drive. I'm twice your age and I would have sex with my man every day for hours if I could.

Sex feels good. That's why people engage in it. It is also why there are many huge money making industries because of sex and how good it feels.

Hope that helps you not feel like a slut. Or does it make me a slut? ANYWAY.

That man (and here, I am using man loosely) was not the right kind of mate for anyone. He wants a mom to tell him no. Or a master to roll up a newspaper and swat him on the nose. You were looking for a partner, not a son or a pet so don't let him make you think you did something wrong here.

There is no such thing as too nice. There is such a thing as too much of a jerk (I would like to use a stronger word, but why dirty my mouth on such an insignificant person?)

He wants someone to tell him no and push him away? Tell him no. No, you can't be his friend. Push him away, you don't have room in your nonsense.

Keep being who you are. You will find someone who will is wonderful and appreciate you. It may take time, but you will.

; )
posted by Yellow at 4:50 AM on September 11, 2011 [2 favorites]


Sheesh, I forgot a few words there...You don't have room in your life for nonsense! That's better!
posted by Yellow at 4:56 AM on September 11, 2011


When we are hurt we want to protect ourself from future hurt by "figuring out" what went wrong so we can avoid it.

But the problem is that we re-write the script when we don't have to. You have a lot of language here that you re-wrote what he said. That's a reflection of your feelings, not his. So when you get the urge to rewrite (usually when the hurt is present), don't do it. Allow yourself to feel hurt, acknowledge your interpretations, but also refuse to accept them as true by saying "I am thinking X, I don't have to believe this" everytime you start thinking this way.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2011


The funny thing is, if you tell him no, you don't want to hang out, he might be clueless enough to think that NOW you're playing dominant & hard to get.....

Don't bother replying, he's just a waste of your time. Oh, and he's not Mr. Almost-Right, he's Mr. Rude-Guy-With-Bad-Manners-And-Lousy-Communication/Social-Skills. The problem isn't you, it's him.
posted by easily confused at 4:37 PM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


I may be the dissenting opinion here, but I think you made a mistake here. Your mistake is that you jumped in bed and shared body fluids with someone you've known for one day. Your mistake is that you just gave him access to your body without 1) knowing if he's a quality person (one day is not long enough to determine) and 2) gave yourself to him without a chase and without making him prove himself worthy of what you have to give. No one appreciates a freebie as much as something sought and strived for - as the saying goes, everything woth having is worth fighting for). He may have not called you a slut directly but he certainly implied it because your behavior is like that of a slut (someone who is indiscriminate about her sexuality).

We can all say that this is a new age and talk about a double standard, but the fact remains that female sexuality is prized and highly valuable, and if you discount it, guys will not respect you for it. Guys will swear up and down that this is not true - and it may seem so because he will by no means turn down a girl who is willing to sleep with him on the first date (he is getting laid! and it's not going to cost him!) - but they certainly distinguish between high quality and long term, and low quality and a friend with benefits. Ane while they may give Low Quality attention for a little while, Low Quality is dropped the moment High Quality walks in.

Having said that - please don't be too hard on yourself. You're 21, you live in a culture where these facts are hidden and confusing, and you made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. It takes life experience to learn from your mistakes and not repeat them. Count this is a valuable lesson learned and be more discriminate next time.
posted by gardenbex at 5:58 PM on September 11, 2011


Ashen, please pay close attention to gardenbex, because this is a prime example of the kind of person/attitude you want to *avoid* in the future.

You didn't make any "mistakes," and your behavior is NOT that of what some would refer to as a slut, nor were you indiscriminate. You met someone, you hit it off and knocked boots for a few days, he turned out to be a jerk, no big deal. In my own history, the length of my relationships had little to do with whether I decided to fuck them on the 2nd date, or the 10th, or whatever I felt like - because you know, I'm a human being with desires of my own, not a door prize held out like a carrot on a stick while playing some kind of game of hard to get.
posted by HopperFan at 6:54 PM on September 11, 2011 [13 favorites]


Even if it could be argued that it is imprudent to have sex with someone before you get to know them well, the person you had sex with does not have standing to make that argument.
posted by jayder at 6:59 PM on September 11, 2011 [5 favorites]


What I heard: "You're a slut - not good enough to date, but definitely good enough to be ass-on-call."

Whoa. It was in incredibly poor taste for him to whine about your attitude toward sex right after getting it, but look, no-one gets to make you feel like a slut without your permission, okay? Do not let yourself leap to this assumption.
posted by desuetude at 8:27 PM on September 11, 2011 [1 favorite]


Best answer: This song is working on multiple levels, so not totally relevant to your question and context, but wanted to share this part.

"Am I a slut?" sounds like asking, "Am I nothing?" No. You are not nothing.

Slut being metonymous with sexuality, with what it means to be a woman, a woman who enjoys sex, a woman who has sex, with desire, with how to navigate, negotiate, and (what the hell) neutralize potential sexual liaisons. With this most recent person, it sounds like you both just weren't sexually attuned. That's okay, and it's okay to make a decision based on that knowing.

Here's a different take on slut:
I’m telling you this because sluthood saved me. Sluthood gave me the time and space to nurse a shattered heart. It gave me a place where I could exist in pieces, some of me craving touch, some of me still too tender to even expose to the light. Sluthood healed the part of me that felt my body and my desires were grotesque after two years in a libido-mismatched partnership. Now I felt hot, wanted, powerful. My desire and enthusiasm was an asset, not an unintended weapon. Even now, with more time passed, now, when I am actually ready for and wanting a more emotional connection, sluthood keeps me centered. It keeps me from confusing desire and affection with something deeper. It means I have another choice besides celibacy and settling. It means I won’t enter another committed relationship just to satisfy my basic need for sex and affection. It gives me more choices, it makes room for relationships to evolve organically, to take the shape they will before anyone defines them.
Scarleteen's another great resource. Check out the article on safer sex for your heart, which also has a section, "Mismatched Pairs: Unsuitable relationship models or unsuitable partners", a highlight from which being:
Too, some partners are just unsuitable for us. Given, oftentimes two people have things in common, and things which are divergent, and that's pretty normal and workable. But you may find yourself with or attracted to someone who is already in a monogamous relationship, for instance. Or, who isn't emotionally available for what you need yourself. Or, who has very different needs than you do. [emphasis mine]
And the people whom you want in your life, the people whom you'll know love you best will never say, "I told you so."

Trust that.

So, whether celibate, self-professed slut, or anywhere in-between, part of dalliances with other people requires knowing yourself and not being so easily knocked off center by other people. Be changed, but be changed by people whom you admire, adore, and respect, mutually if at all possible, or at least don't give you soliloquies like the one you posted in your original query.

As for love, I can't tell you rhyme or reason, where or how, but I'm sure you'll know when you've found it.
posted by simulacra at 9:16 PM on September 11, 2011 [3 favorites]


How do I find men who DON'T think this way?

Like everyone said above, to me there's nothing wrong with having sex when you feel like having sex, it doesn't make you a slut, and any fellow human who judges you for it has a lot of nerve, particularly if they are the one who you just had sex with.

But the intimacy of having sex with someone makes one kind of vulnerable to that person, in multiple ways. And being vulnerable like that to a stranger can lead to getting really hurt.

It might be good, in the future, to take some time and get to know the person a bit more before being vulnerable to them -- not just sexually.

Talk to these guys about things and listen to see what their attitudes are like. How do they talk about women in general? Almost more importantly, how do they talk about specific women - their mothers, their ex-girlfriends, their female friends? Do those two things match up?

How do they talk about people, in general and other people in their lives? Are they positive or negative? Respectful or contemptuous? Do they put themselves above others, or below, or on an equal level?

How do they *act* towards others? Are they kind, or nasty or cold? Are they giving, or self centered, or overly giving like a doormat? Do they stand up for themselves in a mature way? Or go too far and act like a bully? Etc.

I would say you might be putting the cart before the horse a little bit in deciding that you want to date these guys and THEN finding out what they are like as people. Sure, plenty of people do it that way but I think you end up having to slog through a lot of unpleasantness and pain that way.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:47 AM on September 12, 2011 [3 favorites]


Guys will swear up and down that this is not true - and it may seem so because he will by no means turn down a girl who is willing to sleep with him on the first date (he is getting laid! and it's not going to cost him!) - but they certainly distinguish between high quality and long term, and low quality and a friend with benefits. Ane while they may give Low Quality attention for a little while, Low Quality is dropped the moment High Quality walks in.

I agree that people (not just guys) differentiate between high and low quality. But putting out on a first date doesn't make you "low quality," period. I know I've told the story here before, but we fucked before the first date, and we're happily married years later. I mean, the reason I was so interested in dragging her into bed was that she was obviously "high quality"; that she had the confidence to grab onto what she wanted with both fists and go for it was a huge mark in her favor.

But what Ashley801 says is really true: if you are fucking people before getting to know them at all, you are going to sleep with some turds, some players, and some guys who are only interested in the booty call. That's ok, in that you are getting something out of the deal too (all that hot sex), but if you aren't happy with the outcome, you should do as she suggests and get to know them first, and assess exactly the qualities and attitudes that she lists.
posted by Forktine at 5:36 AM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


Chiming in late, but just wanted to say that I'm so sorry you went through this. What a creep. Seriously! There's nothing wrong with you and good for you for dodging a bullet. Or a freight train, for that matter.

Also - I hope to gawd you didn't answer that text. In fact, don't answer any of his texts after all of that. Delete, delete, delete! In fact, delete his number, delete his texts, then go into your outbox and discarded folders and delete those too. No dumpster diving for you, problem solved!
posted by floweredfish at 11:26 AM on September 12, 2011


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