How to get past this online guy
September 6, 2011 11:47 PM Subscribe
How to deal with live in fiancée and an online relationship coming between us?
Basically, my fiancee and I met online gaming. We were LDR with visits for 10 months, then she moved down here with me.
We were always into online gaming in our freetime, which ATM there's an abundance of. We always played together but now we do our own thing since we live together. I'm a Clingy person whose been jealous in the past of her guy friends. I've gotten a lot better but when we stopped playing together I relapsed a bit and it caused some hard times.
Recently, she made a friend on the game but it's gone way past that. Se swears to me up and down that we're fine she loves me wants to marry me etc, but texts this guy all day/evening, even when we're out, spends her game time with him, and recently I've seen some messages where he declares he loves her, wants to spend every day with her forever, she's the one etc. Hes been voice chatting w/ her too and they have exchanged pics I'm sure by now. I saw one of her messages to him, "do you really want me to change my whole life after 1 week?"
I don't know what to do. She is somewhat lonely here w/o friends and I've tried to encourage her to meet ppl. I'm scared me being direct will just drive her to move back w/ her parents and be with this guy (45 min from her parents house).
I am scared. We've had an amazing relationship and now this. I saw she was uncomfortable when he was sending her these messages and I've maybe smothered her a bit since we both have a lot of free tome ATM, plus we've had a bunch of talks this week about jealousy and her guy friends - I love her and I don't Want to break us apart. I want to get through this.
Confront? Play it cool and let her decide/deal with it? Mention it? Idk
Help
Basically, my fiancee and I met online gaming. We were LDR with visits for 10 months, then she moved down here with me.
We were always into online gaming in our freetime, which ATM there's an abundance of. We always played together but now we do our own thing since we live together. I'm a Clingy person whose been jealous in the past of her guy friends. I've gotten a lot better but when we stopped playing together I relapsed a bit and it caused some hard times.
Recently, she made a friend on the game but it's gone way past that. Se swears to me up and down that we're fine she loves me wants to marry me etc, but texts this guy all day/evening, even when we're out, spends her game time with him, and recently I've seen some messages where he declares he loves her, wants to spend every day with her forever, she's the one etc. Hes been voice chatting w/ her too and they have exchanged pics I'm sure by now. I saw one of her messages to him, "do you really want me to change my whole life after 1 week?"
I don't know what to do. She is somewhat lonely here w/o friends and I've tried to encourage her to meet ppl. I'm scared me being direct will just drive her to move back w/ her parents and be with this guy (45 min from her parents house).
I am scared. We've had an amazing relationship and now this. I saw she was uncomfortable when he was sending her these messages and I've maybe smothered her a bit since we both have a lot of free tome ATM, plus we've had a bunch of talks this week about jealousy and her guy friends - I love her and I don't Want to break us apart. I want to get through this.
Confront? Play it cool and let her decide/deal with it? Mention it? Idk
Help
Confront? Play it cool and let her decide/deal with it? Mention it? Idk
If I knew a someone else was telling my SO that they loved her and she was replying "do you really want me to change my whole life after 1 week", I would definitely start a discussion. Like now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:15 AM on September 7, 2011 [25 favorites]
If I knew a someone else was telling my SO that they loved her and she was replying "do you really want me to change my whole life after 1 week", I would definitely start a discussion. Like now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:15 AM on September 7, 2011 [25 favorites]
Independent of being engaged, it's odd that she doesn't wanna end contact with the guy, who sounds like he's gone 'round the bend. Saying all those things after a very short period of online communication?!
But she is engaged... and it's damned hard to understand how she can think this is reasonable, considerate, appropriate, etc.
If making it clear that this ain't good leads her to end her relationship with you, (it would be sad and unpleasant, but) you'd be better off for it.
posted by ambient2 at 12:16 AM on September 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
But she is engaged... and it's damned hard to understand how she can think this is reasonable, considerate, appropriate, etc.
If making it clear that this ain't good leads her to end her relationship with you, (it would be sad and unpleasant, but) you'd be better off for it.
posted by ambient2 at 12:16 AM on September 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
I'm a Clingy person whose been jealous in the past of her guy friends.
I don't know, dude. Did she act like this with her past guy friends? Because this?
texts this guy all day/evening, even when we're out, spends her game time with him, and recently I've seen some messages where he declares he loves her, wants to spend every day with her forever, she's the one etc. Hes been voice chatting w/ her too and they have exchanged pics I'm sure by now.
This is not even close to okay in a relationship that's supposed to be emotionally monogamous. Having a problem with this behavior is not clingy and jealous. It is perfectly reasonable for you to drop the banhammer on this behavior. To be precise, I wouldn't ban HER from doing anything, but rather ban this behavior from MY life.
I would tell her the following about my own feelings:
-That I found it completely disrespectful to our relationship for him to be professing his love to her/that he wants to spend the rest of her life with her.
-That I found it completely disrespectful to me and our relationship for her to (at minimum) be allowing him to behave romantically towards her (if not reciprocating), rather than insisting that he behave platonically if he wants continued communication.
-That it bothered me for her to text him all day/evening even while we were out, and that, in general, I found the amount of communication to be abnormal and troubling.
-That I felt she was emotionally involved with him in a way that was more than platonic, and that bothered me.
-That I felt she was emotionally involved with him in a way that replaced her emotional involvement with me.
I would then tell her that my feelings were my own and right or wrong, that I did not want the above things in my life.
I know you say you don't want to break up, but it sounds to me like your only two options here are to stick up for yourself and risk her moving on, or not say anything, and risk her moving on anyway. Huddling yourself into a corner hoping not to upset her will not keep her there with you, it sounds.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:35 AM on September 7, 2011 [31 favorites]
I don't know, dude. Did she act like this with her past guy friends? Because this?
texts this guy all day/evening, even when we're out, spends her game time with him, and recently I've seen some messages where he declares he loves her, wants to spend every day with her forever, she's the one etc. Hes been voice chatting w/ her too and they have exchanged pics I'm sure by now.
This is not even close to okay in a relationship that's supposed to be emotionally monogamous. Having a problem with this behavior is not clingy and jealous. It is perfectly reasonable for you to drop the banhammer on this behavior. To be precise, I wouldn't ban HER from doing anything, but rather ban this behavior from MY life.
I would tell her the following about my own feelings:
-That I found it completely disrespectful to our relationship for him to be professing his love to her/that he wants to spend the rest of her life with her.
-That I found it completely disrespectful to me and our relationship for her to (at minimum) be allowing him to behave romantically towards her (if not reciprocating), rather than insisting that he behave platonically if he wants continued communication.
-That it bothered me for her to text him all day/evening even while we were out, and that, in general, I found the amount of communication to be abnormal and troubling.
-That I felt she was emotionally involved with him in a way that was more than platonic, and that bothered me.
-That I felt she was emotionally involved with him in a way that replaced her emotional involvement with me.
I would then tell her that my feelings were my own and right or wrong, that I did not want the above things in my life.
I know you say you don't want to break up, but it sounds to me like your only two options here are to stick up for yourself and risk her moving on, or not say anything, and risk her moving on anyway. Huddling yourself into a corner hoping not to upset her will not keep her there with you, it sounds.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:35 AM on September 7, 2011 [31 favorites]
Also, ot_refresh, it sounds like your girlfriend is prone to infatuations or obsessions stemming from online gaming. Has she ever talked with a counselor about this? Also, have both of you ever talked with a counselor about the role of the internet, loneliness, and free time in your lives? I think you guys should give that a try, before you get married...
posted by Ashley801 at 12:41 AM on September 7, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by Ashley801 at 12:41 AM on September 7, 2011 [7 favorites]
Also -- you mentioned smothering her a bit since you have a lot of free time. Not that I think at all that it makes what she's doing okay or your fault, but I really think you need to get a handle on the whole free time situation. Not to knock gaming or spending free time with our loved ones, but I suspect at times you might smother her just out of boredom, and I also think most of us need more than that to feel really good about ourselves and our lives, and feel like happy and whole people. If you expand your life, if you spend time doing something that feels productive, if you make more real life friends, if you take up more hobbies outside the house, I suspect you might feel less clingy, and I think having an expanded life can only be good for your future relationships. Counselor.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:58 AM on September 7, 2011
posted by Ashley801 at 12:58 AM on September 7, 2011
DTMFA- texting constantly to this guy? As I always say, be with the one you're with.
posted by timpanogos at 1:14 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by timpanogos at 1:14 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
I think I have an alternate take.
do you really want me to change my whole life after 1 week?
It sounds to me like she could be trying to let him down gently. Don't get me wrong, it is seriously not cool that she is communicating with him so much. But she might have issues with direct confrontation and is hoping she can get this guy to see the folly of his crush.
Encourage her to be assertive with him.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 1:21 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
do you really want me to change my whole life after 1 week?
It sounds to me like she could be trying to let him down gently. Don't get me wrong, it is seriously not cool that she is communicating with him so much. But she might have issues with direct confrontation and is hoping she can get this guy to see the folly of his crush.
Encourage her to be assertive with him.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 1:21 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
If she respected you, she wouldn't be treating you this way.
If she was afraid of losing you, she wouldn't do anything to jeopardize what the two of you have.
Ask yourself how you would behave around a woman that you wanted to be with more than anyone else on the planet. Compare this with how she is behaving towards you.
I mean it's possible that everything's gonna be alright, but for the other 99% of the time: "when there's doubt, there is no doubt."
posted by danny the boy at 1:30 AM on September 7, 2011
If she was afraid of losing you, she wouldn't do anything to jeopardize what the two of you have.
Ask yourself how you would behave around a woman that you wanted to be with more than anyone else on the planet. Compare this with how she is behaving towards you.
I mean it's possible that everything's gonna be alright, but for the other 99% of the time: "when there's doubt, there is no doubt."
posted by danny the boy at 1:30 AM on September 7, 2011
but texts this guy all day/evening, even when we're out,
Even if I were a business colleague and we were only out for a pint. It is incredibly rude to keep on texting while having company. Out with her own fiancee and still texting? Wow.
Look, even if TheOtherGuy had your Best Answer, you'll want to ask yourself some serious questions here. Do you want to continue being together with someone who is so poorly equipped when fending off online attention?
posted by Namlit at 1:59 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Even if I were a business colleague and we were only out for a pint. It is incredibly rude to keep on texting while having company. Out with her own fiancee and still texting? Wow.
Look, even if TheOtherGuy had your Best Answer, you'll want to ask yourself some serious questions here. Do you want to continue being together with someone who is so poorly equipped when fending off online attention?
posted by Namlit at 1:59 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
So she met you online through the game, then moved into your place. Now she's met someone (else) online, and he's asking her to move into his place..... I can't help but wonder about her history BEFORE she knew you: how many times has she repeated this cycle?
I'm so sorry, but it sounds like she's not giving your relationship more than lip-service. (And I don't care WHAT kind of relationship someone is in, it is amazingly rude to be texting during facetime with anyone, be they family, friends or lovers.)
posted by easily confused at 3:20 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm so sorry, but it sounds like she's not giving your relationship more than lip-service. (And I don't care WHAT kind of relationship someone is in, it is amazingly rude to be texting during facetime with anyone, be they family, friends or lovers.)
posted by easily confused at 3:20 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I hate to say this, but your relationship is over.
She has moved on - or, has shown herself capable of moving past you - and that foretells a future where she WILL move past you at some point.
You could reign her in now, stall the inevitable for a years - but she is not emotionally committed to you (or, not mature enough to make such a commitment).
posted by Flood at 4:37 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
She has moved on - or, has shown herself capable of moving past you - and that foretells a future where she WILL move past you at some point.
You could reign her in now, stall the inevitable for a years - but she is not emotionally committed to you (or, not mature enough to make such a commitment).
posted by Flood at 4:37 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm going to address a different part of this (I think Ashley and other answers are great for what you should say in regards to this behavior).
My greater concern is some of the things that you mention. You say yourself that she is likely to be lonely, has no friends there, and she seems to be using a strategy right now that she has used before to get what she needs (she met you and seems to bod with others in that medium).
What I am wondering is: What happened after she moved in? Is she just left at home most of the day? Do you two go out and do things together?
As part of your conversation, I would find out what she needs to form a bond to you (physical dates? playing the game together). Perhaps together you can come up with a few mutual activities for a few nights a week and make it date night. It doesn't end after you live together, get married, etc. -- continue to work at forming this intimate connection. As an outsider, it appears she is seeking this from other places, and may not be getting this from you or at home.
posted by Wolfster at 5:40 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
My greater concern is some of the things that you mention. You say yourself that she is likely to be lonely, has no friends there, and she seems to be using a strategy right now that she has used before to get what she needs (she met you and seems to bod with others in that medium).
What I am wondering is: What happened after she moved in? Is she just left at home most of the day? Do you two go out and do things together?
As part of your conversation, I would find out what she needs to form a bond to you (physical dates? playing the game together). Perhaps together you can come up with a few mutual activities for a few nights a week and make it date night. It doesn't end after you live together, get married, etc. -- continue to work at forming this intimate connection. As an outsider, it appears she is seeking this from other places, and may not be getting this from you or at home.
posted by Wolfster at 5:40 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't think it is ever bad to clearly articulate your needs, and to try and understand the other person's feelings and experiences. There's no guarantee you will hear or get what you want, but I think the worst is what you are having now -- silent worries and fears, based on guesses and no communication.
Gaming was a way for you guys to come together -- it would be sad for it to become the way you fall apart. Maybe the answer is to have more non-gaming activities in your life, or perhaps you should go back to playing games together.
But before that, you need to understand where she's at, and if necessary help her set limits. A relationship should be a partnership, where you help and support each other. Right now it doesn't sound like you guys are functioning that way.
Communication is hard work. A lot of people find things like couples therapy super helpful, because these are learned skills that take practice and don't always come naturally. There have been a lot of past AskMe's about long term relationships, communication, etc; some of the books and other resources in those answers might be valuable to you now.
posted by Forktine at 5:46 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Gaming was a way for you guys to come together -- it would be sad for it to become the way you fall apart. Maybe the answer is to have more non-gaming activities in your life, or perhaps you should go back to playing games together.
But before that, you need to understand where she's at, and if necessary help her set limits. A relationship should be a partnership, where you help and support each other. Right now it doesn't sound like you guys are functioning that way.
Communication is hard work. A lot of people find things like couples therapy super helpful, because these are learned skills that take practice and don't always come naturally. There have been a lot of past AskMe's about long term relationships, communication, etc; some of the books and other resources in those answers might be valuable to you now.
posted by Forktine at 5:46 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Confront? Play it cool and let her decide/deal with it? Mention it? Idk
Stick up for yourself. She's treating you really very badly.
posted by Miko at 5:58 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Stick up for yourself. She's treating you really very badly.
posted by Miko at 5:58 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh, ot_refresh, you poor thing. This is just... awful.
I knew this girl. Really well -- we were best friends. She's just bored, I think. I hear everyone above, but it sounds like you're not ready to end things.
If you do want to save the relationship (and it sounds like you do), you might sit down and talk with her: "When you talk to other guys this much, it hurts me."
Then go do something. Outside the house. After you're having tons of fun you can invite her, maybe ("honey, this rock climbing gym/karate class/book club is amazing, why don't you come?"). You can try to join her in the game but it will likely make things worse. This faux-lationship will calm down eventually.
That being said: she's never going to stop this behavior because it's exciting and she thinks it's harmless. She might not ever physically cheat, and she might not ever leave you, but you can't change her. You're going to have to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you.
posted by AmandaA at 6:38 AM on September 7, 2011
I knew this girl. Really well -- we were best friends. She's just bored, I think. I hear everyone above, but it sounds like you're not ready to end things.
If you do want to save the relationship (and it sounds like you do), you might sit down and talk with her: "When you talk to other guys this much, it hurts me."
Then go do something. Outside the house. After you're having tons of fun you can invite her, maybe ("honey, this rock climbing gym/karate class/book club is amazing, why don't you come?"). You can try to join her in the game but it will likely make things worse. This faux-lationship will calm down eventually.
That being said: she's never going to stop this behavior because it's exciting and she thinks it's harmless. She might not ever physically cheat, and she might not ever leave you, but you can't change her. You're going to have to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you.
posted by AmandaA at 6:38 AM on September 7, 2011
An ultimatum: "me or him" is the only way to handle this.
Right now, the behavior is cost free.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:53 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Right now, the behavior is cost free.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:53 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have played too many online games in my day for me to have a positive outlook regarding this.
MMO games are fun. I know. I spent a good chunk of my college and a few years after immersed in them. One thing I saw over and over and over again, though, was how much of a crucible the MMO environment can be to drive people to emotional infidelity.
Not saying that everybody who plays them swing that way, but...there is a significant percentage that do, in my experience. Maybe it's not even more than the rest of the world at large, but rather it's the anonymity that makes people more likely to act out on those impulses? I don't know. But I would need more than two hands to count the relationships I saw fall apart while playing.
You need to stick up for yourself. I can't ascribe motive to HER actions, because I don't know her...maybe she really doesn't know just how to let him down. Nobody here can tell you that. What I CAN tell you, however, is that this other dude? He does NOT have your best interests in mind. At the very least, he is not respecting your relationship at ALL....and that's the best case scenario.
She needs to recognize that fact. And that, in being disrespectful of her choice in relationship, he is also being disrespectful to her.
Further, I'd say both of you need to quit the MMO thing. Cold turkey. You're jealous, she seems to have issues with the attention women get in these games if they display even the slightest hint of availability. This will all only repeat itself later.
posted by kaseijin at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
MMO games are fun. I know. I spent a good chunk of my college and a few years after immersed in them. One thing I saw over and over and over again, though, was how much of a crucible the MMO environment can be to drive people to emotional infidelity.
Not saying that everybody who plays them swing that way, but...there is a significant percentage that do, in my experience. Maybe it's not even more than the rest of the world at large, but rather it's the anonymity that makes people more likely to act out on those impulses? I don't know. But I would need more than two hands to count the relationships I saw fall apart while playing.
You need to stick up for yourself. I can't ascribe motive to HER actions, because I don't know her...maybe she really doesn't know just how to let him down. Nobody here can tell you that. What I CAN tell you, however, is that this other dude? He does NOT have your best interests in mind. At the very least, he is not respecting your relationship at ALL....and that's the best case scenario.
She needs to recognize that fact. And that, in being disrespectful of her choice in relationship, he is also being disrespectful to her.
Further, I'd say both of you need to quit the MMO thing. Cold turkey. You're jealous, she seems to have issues with the attention women get in these games if they display even the slightest hint of availability. This will all only repeat itself later.
posted by kaseijin at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
A thought exercise, for perspective:
Imagine the situations are reversed and you have a friend you've made in some online RPG and she's cool and you're friends and all, and she knows you're engaged to be married, and suddenly she starts going on about how she loves you and wants to spend her whole life with you and so on.
Would you:
A. Tell her, "Hey, I'm flattered, but you're saying these things to someone you haven't even met, and also I'm engaged to someone amazing. I really kind of need you to back off on this."
Or
B. Respond with completely open-ended questions and continue to play the video game with this girl and text her constantly, even when out with your SO.
Thing is, whether you pick A or B is a pretty good indicator of where your head's at. Yes, you should talk to your fiancee, but it might be a good idea to be prepared for the possibility that she currently wants different things out of all this than you do.
I don't know. Honestly, I think you deserve to be treated better than this, and I think that if she stops having this kind of relationship with the one guy, it doesn't address the problem where she's still a person who'd do this kind of thing. Food for thought.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Imagine the situations are reversed and you have a friend you've made in some online RPG and she's cool and you're friends and all, and she knows you're engaged to be married, and suddenly she starts going on about how she loves you and wants to spend her whole life with you and so on.
Would you:
A. Tell her, "Hey, I'm flattered, but you're saying these things to someone you haven't even met, and also I'm engaged to someone amazing. I really kind of need you to back off on this."
Or
B. Respond with completely open-ended questions and continue to play the video game with this girl and text her constantly, even when out with your SO.
Thing is, whether you pick A or B is a pretty good indicator of where your head's at. Yes, you should talk to your fiancee, but it might be a good idea to be prepared for the possibility that she currently wants different things out of all this than you do.
I don't know. Honestly, I think you deserve to be treated better than this, and I think that if she stops having this kind of relationship with the one guy, it doesn't address the problem where she's still a person who'd do this kind of thing. Food for thought.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm scared me being direct will just drive her to move back w/ her parents and be with this guy (45 min from her parents house).
You should examine this fear. You're scared that telling your fiancee how you feel and what you need will drive her away. This is not a stable foundation on which to build a marriage. If you can't have an honest conversation about the problems in your relationship, then you are not ready to commit to one another.
posted by gladly at 7:17 AM on September 7, 2011 [18 favorites]
You should examine this fear. You're scared that telling your fiancee how you feel and what you need will drive her away. This is not a stable foundation on which to build a marriage. If you can't have an honest conversation about the problems in your relationship, then you are not ready to commit to one another.
posted by gladly at 7:17 AM on September 7, 2011 [18 favorites]
I know that you love and want to be loved by her, but you have to learn to want to be respected by her as much as you want to be loved by her. And right now, by keeping a relationship -- and this is, in fact, a relationship she has going on, probably little different than the way yours started out -- on the side, she is disrespecting you on a massive scale. I don't know how long she has been in touch with this guy, but a partner who really respects you would not welcome with open arms the declarations of love from an admirer who isn't you.
I can't tell you why she she hasn't sent that guy to the curb yet: maybe she doesn't know how to let him down, maybe your relationship has been getting dull and she is seeking something new and exciting, maybe she has decided she doesn't love you anymore and wants to make sure there's something to fall back on so she doesn't end up alone, maybe its something in between. She is the only person who really knows why this is going on. But it doesn't matter. Seeking solace in someone else while still being engaged to you is not something you should allow yourself to tolerate. If she doesn't know how to let him down, you help her find the strength.If there are problems in your relationship, you deal with them together. If she's making a backup plan, you kick her to the curb.
It is you or this guy, and you are losing. The longer you stay uninvolved, the more it will hurt if or when she cheats on you or leaves you or both. Get in there, tell her you're not putting up with this anymore, that it's him or you, and that if there are any problems, you two can fix them together. And if, after that, she still wants to keep it up with this guy, you tell her it is over. I can assure you that engagements have (rightly) ended over less.
posted by griphus at 7:17 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I can't tell you why she she hasn't sent that guy to the curb yet: maybe she doesn't know how to let him down, maybe your relationship has been getting dull and she is seeking something new and exciting, maybe she has decided she doesn't love you anymore and wants to make sure there's something to fall back on so she doesn't end up alone, maybe its something in between. She is the only person who really knows why this is going on. But it doesn't matter. Seeking solace in someone else while still being engaged to you is not something you should allow yourself to tolerate. If she doesn't know how to let him down, you help her find the strength.If there are problems in your relationship, you deal with them together. If she's making a backup plan, you kick her to the curb.
It is you or this guy, and you are losing. The longer you stay uninvolved, the more it will hurt if or when she cheats on you or leaves you or both. Get in there, tell her you're not putting up with this anymore, that it's him or you, and that if there are any problems, you two can fix them together. And if, after that, she still wants to keep it up with this guy, you tell her it is over. I can assure you that engagements have (rightly) ended over less.
posted by griphus at 7:17 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've been involved in and watched close friends have online-to-RL relationships for almost 20 years now, and this particular scenario is one of the hardest to get right. Player 1 meets Player 2, intense online connection forms, some visits happen, Player 2 moves straight in with Player 1, and a relationship is just supposed to *happen* with no real effort from either participant, because effort hadn't been required thanks to the heightened intensity. Nobody's done any work, everybody's just liked each other: there's been no emotional or logical ramp-up. And once the distance and manufactured drama is over...y'all have to actually have the relationship now, not just log into it.
People do make it work, but they *make* it work. They both participate. Neither of you are participating, and she's moved on to the next intense connection now. And she doesn't care that you know. In a relationship, the person who doesn't want to be in it is the one who gets their way.
The question you're asking is "What do I do to make her do what I want?" It's an understandable question, but this isn't how it works. There's not a cake you can bake that will change her behavior. All you can do is take care of yourself and define and defend your own boundaries. If this isn't okay with you, speak up and tell her. If she leaves, it's not because you told her, it's because the free ride was ending. She already doesn't like you very much if she's doing this.
It is possible that she's maybe a little emotionally immature or just inexperienced and doesn't know how to have a relationship - there's always a chance that you standing up for yourself and saying that these are not the conditions you are willing to live under will light a fire under her. But sitting around while she texts her next boyfriend is absolutely not going to win her back.
[Personally, I think these kinds of immersive interactive games are horrible for people and their brains. They are not okay in my marriage, and I know other gaming or half-gaming couples with the same agreement. If you guys are going to make it, you may have to stop playing the game for at least a couple of months so you can cleanly assess whether it's actually a force for good in your lives.]
posted by Lyn Never at 7:36 AM on September 7, 2011 [16 favorites]
People do make it work, but they *make* it work. They both participate. Neither of you are participating, and she's moved on to the next intense connection now. And she doesn't care that you know. In a relationship, the person who doesn't want to be in it is the one who gets their way.
The question you're asking is "What do I do to make her do what I want?" It's an understandable question, but this isn't how it works. There's not a cake you can bake that will change her behavior. All you can do is take care of yourself and define and defend your own boundaries. If this isn't okay with you, speak up and tell her. If she leaves, it's not because you told her, it's because the free ride was ending. She already doesn't like you very much if she's doing this.
It is possible that she's maybe a little emotionally immature or just inexperienced and doesn't know how to have a relationship - there's always a chance that you standing up for yourself and saying that these are not the conditions you are willing to live under will light a fire under her. But sitting around while she texts her next boyfriend is absolutely not going to win her back.
[Personally, I think these kinds of immersive interactive games are horrible for people and their brains. They are not okay in my marriage, and I know other gaming or half-gaming couples with the same agreement. If you guys are going to make it, you may have to stop playing the game for at least a couple of months so you can cleanly assess whether it's actually a force for good in your lives.]
posted by Lyn Never at 7:36 AM on September 7, 2011 [16 favorites]
Is your fiancee young? Is she relatively inexperienced in love?
I ask because some people really get off on a narrative of 'meant to be', unrequited love, but they're into the narrative more than the actual love. I think it especially correlates with youth and inexperience. I think it's also especially easy to fall into such an ego-stroking "pining" relationship online, where you can construct a fantasy narrative more easily than when you actually meet someone and they have ear hair and leave dishes in the sink and whatever.
She may enjoy the attention more than she actually returns this guy's feelings. Obviously it still isn't OK to lead both you and this guy on, but when you talk to her, I might not automatically assume that she must be in love with him too. You might instead frame it as "I'm really uncomfortable with how much you're talking to this guy and it seems like he is developing inappropriate feelings for you. I need to know if you feel the same way for him or if you're just feeling lonely and he is making you feel wanted."
Either way, you can then proceed to "this isn't fair to our relationship or to (other guy), we need to resolve this".
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:48 AM on September 7, 2011
I ask because some people really get off on a narrative of 'meant to be', unrequited love, but they're into the narrative more than the actual love. I think it especially correlates with youth and inexperience. I think it's also especially easy to fall into such an ego-stroking "pining" relationship online, where you can construct a fantasy narrative more easily than when you actually meet someone and they have ear hair and leave dishes in the sink and whatever.
She may enjoy the attention more than she actually returns this guy's feelings. Obviously it still isn't OK to lead both you and this guy on, but when you talk to her, I might not automatically assume that she must be in love with him too. You might instead frame it as "I'm really uncomfortable with how much you're talking to this guy and it seems like he is developing inappropriate feelings for you. I need to know if you feel the same way for him or if you're just feeling lonely and he is making you feel wanted."
Either way, you can then proceed to "this isn't fair to our relationship or to (other guy), we need to resolve this".
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:48 AM on September 7, 2011
Oh man, been there *way* too many times and you have my sympathies.
He is acting completely inappropriately, but she's encouraging it. She likes the attention and is in denial about the fact (or just doesn't care) that it's completely disrespectful to you. Had a bf once tell me that his online RPG hanky-panky was "part of the game." Right. Next thing you know, she'll be saying she's going to go meet him.
I would state how this makes you feel, and ask her how it would feel to her if you were to do the same. Then go from there based on her responses.
Good luck.
posted by noxetlux at 10:02 AM on September 7, 2011
He is acting completely inappropriately, but she's encouraging it. She likes the attention and is in denial about the fact (or just doesn't care) that it's completely disrespectful to you. Had a bf once tell me that his online RPG hanky-panky was "part of the game." Right. Next thing you know, she'll be saying she's going to go meet him.
I would state how this makes you feel, and ask her how it would feel to her if you were to do the same. Then go from there based on her responses.
Good luck.
posted by noxetlux at 10:02 AM on September 7, 2011
Response by poster: OP here,
Went through her phone last night and found texts where she said she misses him and he is trying to get her to move in with him, and her reply wasn't no, it was "I'd be moving again and changing my life again" and I confronted her about it this morning with a lot of good advice from here and gave her an ultimatum - choose and stick to it. If she wants me we have to out in a lot of work and stop the online gaming and actually put work into us.
From the semi conversation (mostly me talking), she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it etc, which I'm willing to discuss and I told her I would but I've done everything to make it work.
I told her to figure it out, what she wants, I said I love you an left for the afternoon
Where do I go from here?
posted by ot_refresh at 10:13 AM on September 7, 2011
Went through her phone last night and found texts where she said she misses him and he is trying to get her to move in with him, and her reply wasn't no, it was "I'd be moving again and changing my life again" and I confronted her about it this morning with a lot of good advice from here and gave her an ultimatum - choose and stick to it. If she wants me we have to out in a lot of work and stop the online gaming and actually put work into us.
From the semi conversation (mostly me talking), she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it etc, which I'm willing to discuss and I told her I would but I've done everything to make it work.
I told her to figure it out, what she wants, I said I love you an left for the afternoon
Where do I go from here?
posted by ot_refresh at 10:13 AM on September 7, 2011
She's made her choice and it's not you. If this was a ten-year-long marriage, I'd say it might be worth to fight it and keep it on. This is ten-month-long relationship. Cut your losses and cut her out. She knows where she wants to be, so let her go and keep your self-respect intact.
posted by griphus at 10:20 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 10:20 AM on September 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: She also refused to acknowledge that she's been building a relationship with him, loves me, erc
posted by ot_refresh at 10:22 AM on September 7, 2011
posted by ot_refresh at 10:22 AM on September 7, 2011
It is not your fault, and you certainly have not "pushed her into it": she has chosen her own path. Good for you for having what had to be a very difficult conversation, and please hold your ground!
posted by easily confused at 10:27 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 10:27 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
"...she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it..."
Ooooooh no. No, no, no, no, no. No.
This tells you everything you need to know, right here.
I'm very sorry. Every time I read one of these stories on here, my heard breaks a little. But you will be better off.
posted by kaseijin at 10:56 AM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ooooooh no. No, no, no, no, no. No.
This tells you everything you need to know, right here.
I'm very sorry. Every time I read one of these stories on here, my heard breaks a little. But you will be better off.
posted by kaseijin at 10:56 AM on September 7, 2011 [4 favorites]
she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it etc... Where do I go from here?
IMO this really doesn't bode well. I've been in relationships with people who were in the habit of refusing all responsibility and blaming everything on me. I was never able to get any of those people to see the light. I think this tends to be a pretty ingrained way of coping with the world, that doesn't easily change. I think all you can do is keep standing up for yourself and letting the chips fall where they may. Even if it means that relationship ends, it will make you that much better at choosing healthy relationships in the future.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:03 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
IMO this really doesn't bode well. I've been in relationships with people who were in the habit of refusing all responsibility and blaming everything on me. I was never able to get any of those people to see the light. I think this tends to be a pretty ingrained way of coping with the world, that doesn't easily change. I think all you can do is keep standing up for yourself and letting the chips fall where they may. Even if it means that relationship ends, it will make you that much better at choosing healthy relationships in the future.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:03 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
"...she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it..."
Just imagine having kids with someone who argues like that!
No, it is not your fault, btw.
posted by Namlit at 11:47 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just imagine having kids with someone who argues like that!
No, it is not your fault, btw.
posted by Namlit at 11:47 AM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Having now read the new info: Honestly it sounds like meeting you online and having an LDR with you and then moving in with you was part of a pattern for her. And this is another part.
I could sit here dissecting it all day, but here is the answer to your question:
Where do I go from here?
You go home and you tell her to pack her damn bags.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:48 AM on September 7, 2011 [14 favorites]
I could sit here dissecting it all day, but here is the answer to your question:
Where do I go from here?
You go home and you tell her to pack her damn bags.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:48 AM on September 7, 2011 [14 favorites]
It's fine to give her a couple of days to think - you've had some lead time to think about it and you've raised some subjects that she should ponder for a little bit herself. But then you have a right to ask for her decision.
Nobody ever makes anyone else cheat. That's a cheap cop-out. If that's all she has to offer, it's time for her to go.
This isn't fun news, but the odds are stacked against you. And you're sad about that possibility because, well, you wanted things to go differently. But all people deserve a mutually supportive well-rounded relationship and if you can't get that here, it doesn't mean that you are bad. It just means y'all did this wrong, and you can't worry about why she did, you can just take some lessons from why you did. It happens. If all relationships were meant to be, nobody'd ever have more than one and we'd all get married in high school.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:54 AM on September 7, 2011
Nobody ever makes anyone else cheat. That's a cheap cop-out. If that's all she has to offer, it's time for her to go.
This isn't fun news, but the odds are stacked against you. And you're sad about that possibility because, well, you wanted things to go differently. But all people deserve a mutually supportive well-rounded relationship and if you can't get that here, it doesn't mean that you are bad. It just means y'all did this wrong, and you can't worry about why she did, you can just take some lessons from why you did. It happens. If all relationships were meant to be, nobody'd ever have more than one and we'd all get married in high school.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:54 AM on September 7, 2011
Where do I go from here? Prepare for the worst, hope for the best...
If you go home later today and she's been playing video games the whole time instead of bawling her eyes out and thinking things through, you calmly discuss the next steps for winding down the relationship and ending things. Perhaps you haven't been clear enough about what the issue here is, but it's a dealbreaker for her to let the situation with this guy continue. Secretly take your most valuable things (in case she takes them, you never know) and find a buddy's place to go to. Let her see what it's like to be apart from you for a while. Tell her you will call her on Friday, and not until then.
Her reaction to all of this is pretty much on par with how important you are to her. Is she truly dismayed at losing you, trying to see your POV, and figuring out what she has to do to keep the relationship going? Or is it more "avoiding change" and doing the bare minimum on her part? If it's the latter, I'm so sorry dude, but no matter how wonderful a person is overall, there can still be dealbreakers.
posted by lizbunny at 12:01 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you go home later today and she's been playing video games the whole time instead of bawling her eyes out and thinking things through, you calmly discuss the next steps for winding down the relationship and ending things. Perhaps you haven't been clear enough about what the issue here is, but it's a dealbreaker for her to let the situation with this guy continue. Secretly take your most valuable things (in case she takes them, you never know) and find a buddy's place to go to. Let her see what it's like to be apart from you for a while. Tell her you will call her on Friday, and not until then.
Her reaction to all of this is pretty much on par with how important you are to her. Is she truly dismayed at losing you, trying to see your POV, and figuring out what she has to do to keep the relationship going? Or is it more "avoiding change" and doing the bare minimum on her part? If it's the latter, I'm so sorry dude, but no matter how wonderful a person is overall, there can still be dealbreakers.
posted by lizbunny at 12:01 PM on September 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it
Tons of other people have already picked up on this line and said very useful things about this. Most are saying this truth: it isn't your fault.
But. Suppose it is your fault. Suppose she gives you very good reasons to see this pseudo-relationship with another guy as caused by you. Supposing that, tell yourself: "I still deserve better." Even if she's right and you're to blame, remember that that doesn't mean that you should remain in a situation where you're unhappy and your needs are not being met. (Yes, you were happy... But that's gone now. Maybe it'll be back sometime in the future, maybe it won't. What matters now is that your current situation is untenable.)
"Blame" and "fault" are useless when it comes to issues like this. Who the hell cares who's to blame? Assigning blame sure isn't going to make you or her happier. It won't make the relationship suddenly start working again. Don't let her focus the conversation on who or what is to blame. The conversation should focus on the problems that exist, not who's responsible for them.
Not that I think you are actually at fault, here. Just understand what the goal of your conversations should be, and make sure you stay focused on that.
posted by meese at 3:11 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Tons of other people have already picked up on this line and said very useful things about this. Most are saying this truth: it isn't your fault.
But. Suppose it is your fault. Suppose she gives you very good reasons to see this pseudo-relationship with another guy as caused by you. Supposing that, tell yourself: "I still deserve better." Even if she's right and you're to blame, remember that that doesn't mean that you should remain in a situation where you're unhappy and your needs are not being met. (Yes, you were happy... But that's gone now. Maybe it'll be back sometime in the future, maybe it won't. What matters now is that your current situation is untenable.)
"Blame" and "fault" are useless when it comes to issues like this. Who the hell cares who's to blame? Assigning blame sure isn't going to make you or her happier. It won't make the relationship suddenly start working again. Don't let her focus the conversation on who or what is to blame. The conversation should focus on the problems that exist, not who's responsible for them.
Not that I think you are actually at fault, here. Just understand what the goal of your conversations should be, and make sure you stay focused on that.
posted by meese at 3:11 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Where do I go from here?
You need to stick to your guns--if she won't shape up, leave. She'll hang around as long as you're easier to stay with than the other guy is. You know this already; think long and hard about whether or not trying to keep something that doesn't want to be caught is worth it.
You can't make someone love you the way you want them to. And oh, honey, what she's feeling for you isn't the kind of love that's worth a second of your time. Is it really love if she won't empathize with you and think about your feelings and needs? Is it really love when someone asks her to leave you and her response isn't--"HELL NO! I love my fiancee." but "wahhhh it's too much work to leave him"? All the counseling in the world can't make her care about you the way you care about her.
You know that, don't you? How can you trust her not to leave you? How can you become less clingy and possessive when you don't trust her not to leave you? Do you really want to spend more time being this anxious, possessive person? You went through her phone. You went through her phone. Did you know that you--yes, you--can be in a relationship where the thought of doing that will never even cross your mind? All it takes is being in a relationship with someone who cares about your feelings.
she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it
Try spending some time around healthy couples. You'll see that most of them are a little clingy and a little jealous. It's, well, fairly normal and something that each of them have to negotiate. Healthy couples don't react to jealousy in the other partner by flirting harder with other people. They react by addressing it frankly, kindly, and with due consideration for each others' needs. We all have baggage and have a responsibility to be aware of it and keep it from affecting others. However, our partners also have a responsibility to either be respectful of our feelings or leave when they realize that they can't handle our emotional problems.
I don't know you; maybe you were abnormally possessive and jealous. Even so: she could have chosen to leave you, instead of hurting you in this way.
posted by millions of peaches at 3:51 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
You need to stick to your guns--if she won't shape up, leave. She'll hang around as long as you're easier to stay with than the other guy is. You know this already; think long and hard about whether or not trying to keep something that doesn't want to be caught is worth it.
You can't make someone love you the way you want them to. And oh, honey, what she's feeling for you isn't the kind of love that's worth a second of your time. Is it really love if she won't empathize with you and think about your feelings and needs? Is it really love when someone asks her to leave you and her response isn't--"HELL NO! I love my fiancee." but "wahhhh it's too much work to leave him"? All the counseling in the world can't make her care about you the way you care about her.
You know that, don't you? How can you trust her not to leave you? How can you become less clingy and possessive when you don't trust her not to leave you? Do you really want to spend more time being this anxious, possessive person? You went through her phone. You went through her phone. Did you know that you--yes, you--can be in a relationship where the thought of doing that will never even cross your mind? All it takes is being in a relationship with someone who cares about your feelings.
she seemed to feel like it was my fault and I pushed her into it
Try spending some time around healthy couples. You'll see that most of them are a little clingy and a little jealous. It's, well, fairly normal and something that each of them have to negotiate. Healthy couples don't react to jealousy in the other partner by flirting harder with other people. They react by addressing it frankly, kindly, and with due consideration for each others' needs. We all have baggage and have a responsibility to be aware of it and keep it from affecting others. However, our partners also have a responsibility to either be respectful of our feelings or leave when they realize that they can't handle our emotional problems.
I don't know you; maybe you were abnormally possessive and jealous. Even so: she could have chosen to leave you, instead of hurting you in this way.
posted by millions of peaches at 3:51 PM on September 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
My heart bleeds for you, OP. This really, really sucks.
I don't think you will do this, because it's too hard, you love her, and so forth, but I think the best thing to do is break up with her. Screw "giving her time to think about she wants." Make that decision for her: That you will not be treated like this, and understand that there is realistically no chance that someone who is willing to have an emotional affair like she is just ten months into the relationship is going to transform into a loving, respecting partner to that same person she strayed from so quickly (ouch, I know).
A fellow mefite said something in his blog that has resonated with me in many, many instances where you feel like certain emotional situations are getting away from you: You are the situation.
By breaking up with her, you'd be making the impossibly courageous move of forsaking a love you really want for loving yourself even more.
posted by mreleganza at 3:22 AM on September 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think you will do this, because it's too hard, you love her, and so forth, but I think the best thing to do is break up with her. Screw "giving her time to think about she wants." Make that decision for her: That you will not be treated like this, and understand that there is realistically no chance that someone who is willing to have an emotional affair like she is just ten months into the relationship is going to transform into a loving, respecting partner to that same person she strayed from so quickly (ouch, I know).
A fellow mefite said something in his blog that has resonated with me in many, many instances where you feel like certain emotional situations are getting away from you: You are the situation.
By breaking up with her, you'd be making the impossibly courageous move of forsaking a love you really want for loving yourself even more.
posted by mreleganza at 3:22 AM on September 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm late to this, but yowza.
There might be an explanation for her saying "do you really want me to change my life after 1 week" but there's no explanation for the whole pattern. If she and the other guy were just BFFs texting him in front of you would still be incredibly rude. But they're not BFFs. It's beyond rude, it's flat out disrespectful, and not only that, it looks exactly like she's setting up a new relationship right under your nose and while living with you! Even if that's not her intention, who cares? In order to respect you, she would have to a) not start other relationships while living with you and b) not look like she's starting other relationships while living with you.
Then you confront her and she says "well it's your fault"? Of course she does. Because to her, relationships are games, and she's trying to get to the next level.
I have a hard time with anyone telling you that this is something you can solve by asking her not to do it. "Excuse me, would you mind not finding another boyfriend and setting up a serious relationship with him while we're at the dinner table?" I just find it hard to imagine that the kind of person you'd have to say that to would also be the kind of person who'd even bother to listen.
No it's not your fault. No you don't deserve it. If you had some other relationship problem, I'd pick up on what some have said about making more effort to hold her interest. But pursuing other men in front of you negates her position as far as I'm concerned. This is not the kind of behaviour you should reward; I personally think she deserves a DefenestrateAndBerate for her troubles.
posted by tel3path at 4:01 AM on September 9, 2011
There might be an explanation for her saying "do you really want me to change my life after 1 week" but there's no explanation for the whole pattern. If she and the other guy were just BFFs texting him in front of you would still be incredibly rude. But they're not BFFs. It's beyond rude, it's flat out disrespectful, and not only that, it looks exactly like she's setting up a new relationship right under your nose and while living with you! Even if that's not her intention, who cares? In order to respect you, she would have to a) not start other relationships while living with you and b) not look like she's starting other relationships while living with you.
Then you confront her and she says "well it's your fault"? Of course she does. Because to her, relationships are games, and she's trying to get to the next level.
I have a hard time with anyone telling you that this is something you can solve by asking her not to do it. "Excuse me, would you mind not finding another boyfriend and setting up a serious relationship with him while we're at the dinner table?" I just find it hard to imagine that the kind of person you'd have to say that to would also be the kind of person who'd even bother to listen.
No it's not your fault. No you don't deserve it. If you had some other relationship problem, I'd pick up on what some have said about making more effort to hold her interest. But pursuing other men in front of you negates her position as far as I'm concerned. This is not the kind of behaviour you should reward; I personally think she deserves a DefenestrateAndBerate for her troubles.
posted by tel3path at 4:01 AM on September 9, 2011
You did the right thing.
Establish the boundaries, as you've done. Don't let her fool you into thinking that she doesn't know what's going on. Now set firm criteria for yourself, including time limits. When she goes over these limits and you know you've said not to, you're out. MAYBE you give her ONE chance - but there is a fixed limit of chances. The important thing is:
- Make yourself clear
- Perform your own accounting - you know what the truth is
- Strict limits
- Strict number of chances
When you're done, you're done. These kinds of decisions can't be done on the fly; You'll have to prepare limits and then all you have to do is stick to them. It's an immensely helpful navigational beacon in this type of extremely difficult situation.
Come back to the thread for support and reflection.
YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING
NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
IT IS GOING TO GET BETTER
posted by krilli at 1:59 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Establish the boundaries, as you've done. Don't let her fool you into thinking that she doesn't know what's going on. Now set firm criteria for yourself, including time limits. When she goes over these limits and you know you've said not to, you're out. MAYBE you give her ONE chance - but there is a fixed limit of chances. The important thing is:
- Make yourself clear
- Perform your own accounting - you know what the truth is
- Strict limits
- Strict number of chances
When you're done, you're done. These kinds of decisions can't be done on the fly; You'll have to prepare limits and then all you have to do is stick to them. It's an immensely helpful navigational beacon in this type of extremely difficult situation.
Come back to the thread for support and reflection.
YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING
NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
IT IS GOING TO GET BETTER
posted by krilli at 1:59 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I think you should ask her how seriously she takes your relationship. See if you can both go to couples counseling.
I know you'd rather not think about it, but if the relationship needs to end, better it ends now then before it gets legal and therefore much more complicated.
Speaking from bitter personal experience here. Thinking of you.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 12:08 AM on September 7, 2011 [5 favorites]