How to be nice to annoying people
August 30, 2011 5:59 AM Subscribe
I need advice on how to be nicer to someone who annoys the crap out of me and freaks me out a little.
There's a woman in my office who is well-meaning but needy and desperate and ... a little odd. I feel as if she is trying to squeeze every drop out of every interaction, and I find this overwhelming and off-putting. I'm very aloof with her (I'm generally a bit withdrawn except for a few people I'm closer with - yes, introvert). This woman is the butt of a lot of not-so-secret office jokes, but she just keeps trying so hard to get people to like her. In casually interactions she keeps making odd remarks that - as if she's trying to show that she's intelligent and quirky and one of the cool kids - but the general effect is that she can't read people well and is desperate to be noticed.
I feel for her, but I have a deep irrational fear with certain (needy) people that if I don't keep my boundaries firmly up they will glom on to me. So right now I'm kind of a dick to her. When she tries to chat with me I won't look her in the eye, I give monosyllabic answers, and I just want her to go AWAY because I feel so damn uncomfortable. Her vulnerability is like a giant gaping wound she refuses to cover.
I'd like to be a grownup about this - be polite, be kind, but disallow any notions that I am her new BFF if necessary. How can I get past my discomfort and be more decent towards her?
There's a woman in my office who is well-meaning but needy and desperate and ... a little odd. I feel as if she is trying to squeeze every drop out of every interaction, and I find this overwhelming and off-putting. I'm very aloof with her (I'm generally a bit withdrawn except for a few people I'm closer with - yes, introvert). This woman is the butt of a lot of not-so-secret office jokes, but she just keeps trying so hard to get people to like her. In casually interactions she keeps making odd remarks that - as if she's trying to show that she's intelligent and quirky and one of the cool kids - but the general effect is that she can't read people well and is desperate to be noticed.
I feel for her, but I have a deep irrational fear with certain (needy) people that if I don't keep my boundaries firmly up they will glom on to me. So right now I'm kind of a dick to her. When she tries to chat with me I won't look her in the eye, I give monosyllabic answers, and I just want her to go AWAY because I feel so damn uncomfortable. Her vulnerability is like a giant gaping wound she refuses to cover.
I'd like to be a grownup about this - be polite, be kind, but disallow any notions that I am her new BFF if necessary. How can I get past my discomfort and be more decent towards her?
I am not a lawyer, nor am I in human resources. I am a woman.
I feel as if she is trying to squeeze every drop out of every interaction
I would make sure your interaction with her is in front of witnesses to help prevent misinterpretation.
This woman is the butt of a lot of not-so-secret office jokes.
I would not participate in these jokes. As funny as they may be - you are setting yourself up for future discipline problems.
I'd like to be a grownup about this - be polite, be kind, but disallow any notions that I am her new BFF if necessary. How can I get past my discomfort and be more decent towards her?
Keep all conversation business related only. No jokes, no office jibing - just plain work and only work. Focus on the fact that she is a fellow employee of the company as you are - so you must be professional when discussing work related matter with her.
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 6:15 AM on August 30, 2011
I feel as if she is trying to squeeze every drop out of every interaction
I would make sure your interaction with her is in front of witnesses to help prevent misinterpretation.
This woman is the butt of a lot of not-so-secret office jokes.
I would not participate in these jokes. As funny as they may be - you are setting yourself up for future discipline problems.
I'd like to be a grownup about this - be polite, be kind, but disallow any notions that I am her new BFF if necessary. How can I get past my discomfort and be more decent towards her?
Keep all conversation business related only. No jokes, no office jibing - just plain work and only work. Focus on the fact that she is a fellow employee of the company as you are - so you must be professional when discussing work related matter with her.
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 6:15 AM on August 30, 2011
It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong. You don't have to be friendly to be polite, after all. Just stick to work-related interactions. If she really wants friends, outside of work is the best place for her to seek them out.
I like the suggestions to stand up for her when others make jokes. Just frown and/or go "guys, that's not very nice". If that seems contrived, then at a minimum don't participate in the joking yourself.
posted by tel3path at 6:19 AM on August 30, 2011 [5 favorites]
I like the suggestions to stand up for her when others make jokes. Just frown and/or go "guys, that's not very nice". If that seems contrived, then at a minimum don't participate in the joking yourself.
posted by tel3path at 6:19 AM on August 30, 2011 [5 favorites]
Just don't be a dick. Treat her kindly, but refuse to engage if she tries to latch on to you. Fake it if you have to. DO NOT be a party to the entire office acting like douchebags and treating her unkindly.
posted by crankylex at 6:20 AM on August 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by crankylex at 6:20 AM on August 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
What joannemullen said. I don't mean this harshly, but this post says as much about your own insecurities as it does hers. Why not make it about her rather than you? And just try to be kind while maintaining your boundaries. That way you both get to grow a little.
I would make sure your interaction with her is in front of witnesses to help prevent misinterpretation.
Erm... I may have got this wrong, but I sounds like she's just over-friendly and a bit needy. We're not talking harassment here, unless I've missed something.
posted by Chairboy at 6:21 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would make sure your interaction with her is in front of witnesses to help prevent misinterpretation.
Erm... I may have got this wrong, but I sounds like she's just over-friendly and a bit needy. We're not talking harassment here, unless I've missed something.
posted by Chairboy at 6:21 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
From an outside perspective, it sounds like she is trying to make it work in an environment where people make fun of her and fail to look at her when they talk to her. Good god, I would be a huge awkward mess too. She is your colleague, not a pariah.
There is a gulf between being a polite, kind person and her new work best friend. Start by behaving professionally to her - which you aren't currently. This may include some small talk (be strong, you'll get through it.) You can be nice and prevent her from "gloming" onto you by being aware of your boundaries, and clearly communicating with her about them. Let her know when you need to get back to work, or if you are having a private conversation with someone else. Also, feel free to use the phrase "I'm not comfortable talking about this subject at work/people I work with." You may even go so far as to let the other cool kids know that they are behaving boorishly.
posted by gagoumot at 6:22 AM on August 30, 2011 [16 favorites]
There is a gulf between being a polite, kind person and her new work best friend. Start by behaving professionally to her - which you aren't currently. This may include some small talk (be strong, you'll get through it.) You can be nice and prevent her from "gloming" onto you by being aware of your boundaries, and clearly communicating with her about them. Let her know when you need to get back to work, or if you are having a private conversation with someone else. Also, feel free to use the phrase "I'm not comfortable talking about this subject at work/people I work with." You may even go so far as to let the other cool kids know that they are behaving boorishly.
posted by gagoumot at 6:22 AM on August 30, 2011 [16 favorites]
Respectfully disagreeing with Joanne. I have often shown "common human decency" and have ended up with new permanent BFFs whom I cannot lose through decent means. And then, sooner or later, you leave these people either politely or not and they are more hurt than ever -- you betrayed them! What kind of person are you? This is a very tough situation.
Be polite but don't engage -- if you don't like her you don't need to befriend her. However, do not participate in mean spirited humor. It won't make you look cool, it will just hurt her feelings. Hang out with the cool kids if you like, but don't be a grown-up bully. In fact, do tell them to cut the crap. It won't work, but they may cut it around you.
On preview: what gagoumot says. Polite, professional, but not particularly friendly.
posted by AmandaA at 6:25 AM on August 30, 2011 [13 favorites]
Be polite but don't engage -- if you don't like her you don't need to befriend her. However, do not participate in mean spirited humor. It won't make you look cool, it will just hurt her feelings. Hang out with the cool kids if you like, but don't be a grown-up bully. In fact, do tell them to cut the crap. It won't work, but they may cut it around you.
On preview: what gagoumot says. Polite, professional, but not particularly friendly.
posted by AmandaA at 6:25 AM on August 30, 2011 [13 favorites]
Best answer: I feel for her, but I have a deep irrational fear with certain (needy) people that if I don't keep my boundaries firmly up they will glom on to me.
Well, your fear is completely rational. With people like that you need good boundaries or you end up with them glomming onto you and everyone else avoiding you because you have an annoying BFF.
Start by deciding what exactly you want your interactions with her to look like. If you don't know, you'll be letting her shape them and that's not a good idea. So if you want to have a couple of short interactions a day that'll be different to one long-ish conversation.
Most importantly, you need to be direct both in your kindness (look her in the eye, respond with interest when you do talk) and in your boundaries (tell her immediately you only have a few minutes and then cut her short after those few minutes by saying you have work to do and will chat with her again tomorrow / at tea break / whatever).
Follow through with anything you promise. You need to train her to believe you.
Learn to feel comfortable with cutting short the interaction, so you can do it kindly and firmly.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:28 AM on August 30, 2011 [11 favorites]
Well, your fear is completely rational. With people like that you need good boundaries or you end up with them glomming onto you and everyone else avoiding you because you have an annoying BFF.
Start by deciding what exactly you want your interactions with her to look like. If you don't know, you'll be letting her shape them and that's not a good idea. So if you want to have a couple of short interactions a day that'll be different to one long-ish conversation.
Most importantly, you need to be direct both in your kindness (look her in the eye, respond with interest when you do talk) and in your boundaries (tell her immediately you only have a few minutes and then cut her short after those few minutes by saying you have work to do and will chat with her again tomorrow / at tea break / whatever).
Follow through with anything you promise. You need to train her to believe you.
Learn to feel comfortable with cutting short the interaction, so you can do it kindly and firmly.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:28 AM on August 30, 2011 [11 favorites]
I see two options: A. either minimize interactions or B. accept the other person's quirks. Option A is easy, always be busy, carry a pencil with you purposefully, and learn how to end the interactions politely but definitely. Option B is harder, but probably more sustainable in the long run. Whenever some quirk grates on you, just make a mental note: ah there's that quirk, and ignore it. IF in the future she does try to glom over you, go back to option A.
posted by dhruva at 6:29 AM on August 30, 2011
posted by dhruva at 6:29 AM on August 30, 2011
Seconding AmandaA. If everyone else is mean and makes jokes, and you are simply behaving civilly, the gulf between those two behaviours is so wide that she'll likely interpret your civility as "friendly", even if it's not meant that way. You'll become the nice one, her ally against all the other mean people.
Agreeing with the cool, yet polite. Make sure your interactions are work-related. Be civil when you're discussing work stuff, to ensure a good environment, but avoid letting her turn things personal.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 6:31 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Agreeing with the cool, yet polite. Make sure your interactions are work-related. Be civil when you're discussing work stuff, to ensure a good environment, but avoid letting her turn things personal.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 6:31 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: FWIW I suspect she annoys the crap out of you because you don't feel confident that you can stop her from steamrollering you if push comes to shove. So your hackles are pre-emptively rising.
The answer to this is to learn how to set boundaries towards her. If your alarm diminishes, so will your annoyance, because she will cease being your problem.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:32 AM on August 30, 2011 [7 favorites]
The answer to this is to learn how to set boundaries towards her. If your alarm diminishes, so will your annoyance, because she will cease being your problem.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:32 AM on August 30, 2011 [7 favorites]
Maybe she's going through a divorce, maybe she has a sick family member that's causing her to feel out of sorts with her life. You obviously never stopped to ask. Stop being selfish about your own Mean Girl social standing and consider that maybe she's at a crux of her life where people showing true kindness to her will make a real difference in her life. You don't have to be best friends, but what you think is cool civility can be just as cruel. Everyone on the planet has at least one redeeming quality -- find hers, and respect it, and be kind.
posted by mochapickle at 6:36 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 6:36 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
As to how to be nice to her..
Find a commonality. Do you both have cats? Do you both love to swim? hike? watch that one hilarious TV show. Do you frequent the same store or cafe?
Listen to what she has to say. Sometimes all people want is some validation that they've been heard. Repeat some of the stuff back to her. Her: "I went to Hawaii on vacation." You:"Oh, you went to Hawaii on vacation?" etc etc
After ten minutes or so of engaging conversation, start doing things like grabbing paper and pens, look like you're about to write. If she still doesn't get the hint to leave you alone, lay a happy hint of like: "Hey, sorry to interrupt, but I really gotta get back to this.." *holds pen up*/*gestures at computer*
After that it's likely she'll retreat, and leave you alone. She'll have had her socializing with you quota filled for the day.
posted by royalsong at 6:39 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Find a commonality. Do you both have cats? Do you both love to swim? hike? watch that one hilarious TV show. Do you frequent the same store or cafe?
Listen to what she has to say. Sometimes all people want is some validation that they've been heard. Repeat some of the stuff back to her. Her: "I went to Hawaii on vacation." You:"Oh, you went to Hawaii on vacation?" etc etc
After ten minutes or so of engaging conversation, start doing things like grabbing paper and pens, look like you're about to write. If she still doesn't get the hint to leave you alone, lay a happy hint of like: "Hey, sorry to interrupt, but I really gotta get back to this.." *holds pen up*/*gestures at computer*
After that it's likely she'll retreat, and leave you alone. She'll have had her socializing with you quota filled for the day.
posted by royalsong at 6:39 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would advise you to pretty much keep doing what you're doing. Yes, she desperately wants and needs you (or anyone) to be her new BFF, and if you unfortunately give her the tiniest little crumb, she will be your new puppy dog. If you weren't stuck working with her I'd actually tell you to be meaner.
I don't like saying or doing these things, but I have acquired my own clingy puppies (who of course "fell in love" with me because I said hi to them once, shit like that) and seriously, the slightest CRUMB will get them following you around forever.
I think you're doing the best you can under the circumstances. Yes, it makes you feel like a dick to have to act the way you're doing, but you'll have to be worse of a dick if you are nice to her and she starts to stalk you at work.
I really hate saying this stuff. Nobody wants to be mean and clearly she knows she gives off the bad/weird vibe and is TRYING HARD to be friends, but... yeah. I don't know the woman and I am getting a massive crazy vibe just reading this. Don't engage.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:42 AM on August 30, 2011 [5 favorites]
I don't like saying or doing these things, but I have acquired my own clingy puppies (who of course "fell in love" with me because I said hi to them once, shit like that) and seriously, the slightest CRUMB will get them following you around forever.
I think you're doing the best you can under the circumstances. Yes, it makes you feel like a dick to have to act the way you're doing, but you'll have to be worse of a dick if you are nice to her and she starts to stalk you at work.
I really hate saying this stuff. Nobody wants to be mean and clearly she knows she gives off the bad/weird vibe and is TRYING HARD to be friends, but... yeah. I don't know the woman and I am getting a massive crazy vibe just reading this. Don't engage.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:42 AM on August 30, 2011 [5 favorites]
The way you describe her she seems socially insecure and lonely. That's sad, but okay, it's not your task to fix that. What is your business is that you treat other people like you would want to be treated yourself. Re-read the points in your question about how you, at the moment, are interacting with her, and imagine yourself on the receiving end. Stop doing to her what you'd hate yourself in her place.
[Based on the idea that everyone displays some clinginess in certain situations - that's where we all come from; literally - one further thought. For getting rid of "irrational" fears about "certain" other people becoming too clingy, you'd perhaps have to sit in a quiet room and confront your own clinginess, in whichever situation or context it may apply to you. Do you still have any "irrational" fears when you jog around in your own past and confront yourself with moments when you acted clingy? No? Then there's no reason to be afraid of other people either. Yes? Well, quit projecting.]
posted by Namlit at 6:47 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
[Based on the idea that everyone displays some clinginess in certain situations - that's where we all come from; literally - one further thought. For getting rid of "irrational" fears about "certain" other people becoming too clingy, you'd perhaps have to sit in a quiet room and confront your own clinginess, in whichever situation or context it may apply to you. Do you still have any "irrational" fears when you jog around in your own past and confront yourself with moments when you acted clingy? No? Then there's no reason to be afraid of other people either. Yes? Well, quit projecting.]
posted by Namlit at 6:47 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I think you're doing the right thing already.
Geek social fallacies might be helpful here. I know that when I was younger, I tried to be nice to everyone I knew so as not to be an ostracizer. I ended up feeling obligated to act like a caretaker for many miserable people (some of whom had serious problems) who I didn't even enjoy being around. You're not obligated to be her friend if you don't enjoy her company. Just be polite, but don't engage beyond that level.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:47 AM on August 30, 2011 [18 favorites]
Geek social fallacies might be helpful here. I know that when I was younger, I tried to be nice to everyone I knew so as not to be an ostracizer. I ended up feeling obligated to act like a caretaker for many miserable people (some of whom had serious problems) who I didn't even enjoy being around. You're not obligated to be her friend if you don't enjoy her company. Just be polite, but don't engage beyond that level.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:47 AM on August 30, 2011 [18 favorites]
Give the poor woman a break. Sounds like she knows people are being mean about her and is trying hard to make people like her. You're just "lucky" enough to be one of the cool kids. Just remember if people will gossip to you, they will gossip about you.
How would you feel if everyone else in the office was making jokes behind your back?
Maybe a little needy and desperate for someone to be nice to you? Would you start to get nervous and say slightly off things as you try too hard to make people like you so they'd stop picking on you?
Clearly set in your mind where your boundaries are with this woman, grow up and treat her like a human being. A friendly smile, a bit of polite chit chat and a firm, well I have to get back to work now won't kill you and just might make her day at work a little more bearable. You might not get to be one of the cool kids anymore though, but you would get to be a cool adult.
posted by wwax at 6:50 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
How would you feel if everyone else in the office was making jokes behind your back?
Maybe a little needy and desperate for someone to be nice to you? Would you start to get nervous and say slightly off things as you try too hard to make people like you so they'd stop picking on you?
Clearly set in your mind where your boundaries are with this woman, grow up and treat her like a human being. A friendly smile, a bit of polite chit chat and a firm, well I have to get back to work now won't kill you and just might make her day at work a little more bearable. You might not get to be one of the cool kids anymore though, but you would get to be a cool adult.
posted by wwax at 6:50 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
This is a work situation, right?
Well, you need to act professionally. Your demeanor should be exactly the same with every colleague because that is how professional people act.
Work is not junior high, work is not a picnic. You don't get to be nice to some people and rude to others because of your own issues.
You need to interact the same way with her as you would with any other person holding her position.
posted by Squeak Attack at 6:53 AM on August 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, you need to act professionally. Your demeanor should be exactly the same with every colleague because that is how professional people act.
Work is not junior high, work is not a picnic. You don't get to be nice to some people and rude to others because of your own issues.
You need to interact the same way with her as you would with any other person holding her position.
posted by Squeak Attack at 6:53 AM on August 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'd like to be a grownup about this - be polite, be kind, but disallow any notions that I am her new BFF if necessary. How can I get past my discomfort and be more decent towards her?
Bunderful is asking for help in how to be kinder to his/her coworker. Therefore I feel it is not necessary to respond to him/her by saying, "give the poor woman a break", etc, etc.
In asking the question, bunderful is trying to be more decent. Why is it necessary to further guilt-trip bunderful? Also, telling bunderful to "be polite" is not helpful because he/she already stated he/she wants to be more polite, and is asking how to do this, which is a valid question because some people are well-meaning though annoying and disruptive and we need tools to deal with them. Bunderful is asking how to maintain boundaries while still being polite and this is a valid question.
posted by bearette at 7:04 AM on August 30, 2011 [20 favorites]
Bunderful is asking for help in how to be kinder to his/her coworker. Therefore I feel it is not necessary to respond to him/her by saying, "give the poor woman a break", etc, etc.
In asking the question, bunderful is trying to be more decent. Why is it necessary to further guilt-trip bunderful? Also, telling bunderful to "be polite" is not helpful because he/she already stated he/she wants to be more polite, and is asking how to do this, which is a valid question because some people are well-meaning though annoying and disruptive and we need tools to deal with them. Bunderful is asking how to maintain boundaries while still being polite and this is a valid question.
posted by bearette at 7:04 AM on August 30, 2011 [20 favorites]
Because having empathy for the coworker is the first step in recognizing that she is more than a collection of annoying quirks and quivering desperation. It isn't meant to guilt trip (and I recognize that my comment may have been meaner than I intended, I apologize) but to suggest that the current status quo in the office may be an issue that, if resolved, could assist in bunderful's problem.
posted by gagoumot at 7:13 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by gagoumot at 7:13 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think when people say the op needs to "give the woman a break" they mean that he should stop thinking of her in such a harsh way.
It seems that what might be happening is that the more people treat her badly the more she tries to be nice and the more they assume she is "needy and desperate" and a bad feedback circle continues.
Try thinking of all the reasons why she comes across as "needy and desperate" and how bad she must feel having some empathy will help you.
Then be polite by treating her the way you would a stranger, or someone from another department who you don't secretly despise. Answer her questions in sentences but excuse yourself if she tries to get personal.
Keep a stock of phrases such as "excuse me _____ I need to get back to work" or "That's interesting do you have the report I needed?"
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 7:16 AM on August 30, 2011
It seems that what might be happening is that the more people treat her badly the more she tries to be nice and the more they assume she is "needy and desperate" and a bad feedback circle continues.
Try thinking of all the reasons why she comes across as "needy and desperate" and how bad she must feel having some empathy will help you.
Then be polite by treating her the way you would a stranger, or someone from another department who you don't secretly despise. Answer her questions in sentences but excuse yourself if she tries to get personal.
Keep a stock of phrases such as "excuse me _____ I need to get back to work" or "That's interesting do you have the report I needed?"
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 7:16 AM on August 30, 2011
Best answer: OK reading what bearette said I apologise OP. I did overreact and it wasn't the OP's fault but a lot of the comments that made me feel angry on behalf of the woman in question.
Ways I think that might help is honestly not to get involved in what everyone says about her. If your own opinion of her is that she is clingy, that she has actually been clingy. I know that can be a pain, I worked in a bookstore and had guys send me flowers or drop me off love letters to my house because I took 5 minutes out of my day to chat to some lonely socially awkward bloke, in a store about the weather or the book they were reading so I know how quickly being nice to people like this can go horribly wrong very fast. Bookstores seemed to attract a LOT of this sort of person.
Every time I deal with people like this though I still offer my polite smile and a friendly hello because I can see how hard it is for socially awkward people, and I've made some great friends with and hell I ended up married one of them. (not the one with the loveletters to the house that was just creepy).
You're at work, you don't have to be any more than polite and professional if you don't want to, you have boundaries already in place. I do think that eye contact and small talk fall under being polite but then you have the firm boundaries of work to act as a means to get yourself out of any more talk. Hi Jane, Nice weather we're having? *smile politely at awkward comment she makes* Well I have to go these reports aren't going to write themselves and walk away.
If you just remember that even though you as you are looking out at the world from inside your own head trying not to get hurt and to figure out what is or isn't the right thing to do, there is another person you are talking to trying to do the same thing, and apparently less successfully. Being kind is never the wrong answer to a problem, that doesn't mean you have to be a doormat or let people glom onto you and keeping your boundaries clear in your head and firmly and politely pushing back if she does start to cross them instead of pre-emptively as you seem to be doing now. I think that would make things less stressful for you and maybe make things run smoother.
posted by wwax at 7:30 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ways I think that might help is honestly not to get involved in what everyone says about her. If your own opinion of her is that she is clingy, that she has actually been clingy. I know that can be a pain, I worked in a bookstore and had guys send me flowers or drop me off love letters to my house because I took 5 minutes out of my day to chat to some lonely socially awkward bloke, in a store about the weather or the book they were reading so I know how quickly being nice to people like this can go horribly wrong very fast. Bookstores seemed to attract a LOT of this sort of person.
Every time I deal with people like this though I still offer my polite smile and a friendly hello because I can see how hard it is for socially awkward people, and I've made some great friends with and hell I ended up married one of them. (not the one with the loveletters to the house that was just creepy).
You're at work, you don't have to be any more than polite and professional if you don't want to, you have boundaries already in place. I do think that eye contact and small talk fall under being polite but then you have the firm boundaries of work to act as a means to get yourself out of any more talk. Hi Jane, Nice weather we're having? *smile politely at awkward comment she makes* Well I have to go these reports aren't going to write themselves and walk away.
If you just remember that even though you as you are looking out at the world from inside your own head trying not to get hurt and to figure out what is or isn't the right thing to do, there is another person you are talking to trying to do the same thing, and apparently less successfully. Being kind is never the wrong answer to a problem, that doesn't mean you have to be a doormat or let people glom onto you and keeping your boundaries clear in your head and firmly and politely pushing back if she does start to cross them instead of pre-emptively as you seem to be doing now. I think that would make things less stressful for you and maybe make things run smoother.
posted by wwax at 7:30 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Respectfully disagreeing with Joanne. I have often shown "common human decency" and have ended up with new permanent BFFs whom I cannot lose through decent means
QFT. I'm guessing all the people here being so harsh to the OP have never had this happen to them.
Every time I've been in a situation like this where there has been 1 person in a group that no-one likes and the others make not-so-secret jokes about them, I've been the person to show some "common human decency" and ended up with crazy/annoying/desperate new BFFs that are so hard to get rid of... without being way meaner than just trying to limit/avoid contact. There's usually a reason these people are so disliked, even if that reason isn't their fault or something they control, knowing that doesn't make them any more fun to be around and their constant presence tends to mean you're now as ostracized as they were.
My sister offered a lad a cup of tea (pretty sure my mum told her to) when he was locked out of his house and he started sending her love letters - it took quite a mouthful of verbal abuse to get him to leave her alone... (in subsequent years he also sent me love letters because a card game said we would go out and to my sister's best friend - we have no idea what she did to deserve his attentions)! Its sad that there are people in the world that are so lonely and socially inept but you really can't help them, you can only save yourself.
I don't think its necessary to avoid eye contact and rather than monosyllabic answers, if she's approaching you to talk about non-work stuff, politely excuse yourself and get back to work.
posted by missmagenta at 7:37 AM on August 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
QFT. I'm guessing all the people here being so harsh to the OP have never had this happen to them.
Every time I've been in a situation like this where there has been 1 person in a group that no-one likes and the others make not-so-secret jokes about them, I've been the person to show some "common human decency" and ended up with crazy/annoying/desperate new BFFs that are so hard to get rid of... without being way meaner than just trying to limit/avoid contact. There's usually a reason these people are so disliked, even if that reason isn't their fault or something they control, knowing that doesn't make them any more fun to be around and their constant presence tends to mean you're now as ostracized as they were.
My sister offered a lad a cup of tea (pretty sure my mum told her to) when he was locked out of his house and he started sending her love letters - it took quite a mouthful of verbal abuse to get him to leave her alone... (in subsequent years he also sent me love letters because a card game said we would go out and to my sister's best friend - we have no idea what she did to deserve his attentions)! Its sad that there are people in the world that are so lonely and socially inept but you really can't help them, you can only save yourself.
I don't think its necessary to avoid eye contact and rather than monosyllabic answers, if she's approaching you to talk about non-work stuff, politely excuse yourself and get back to work.
posted by missmagenta at 7:37 AM on August 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I too share the paranoia of gloming from overly needy people who I am nice to so I totally get where you are coming from.
What has worked for me is to be nice, but nicely aloof. I've found the permanent BFF problem happens when the person sees you standing up for them. By all means, get your co-workers to stop picking on this person, but do it discretely, like behind their back.
It's a win/ win in my book. Awkward co-worker has an easier time of it, and you don't get velcroed.
posted by Leezie at 8:01 AM on August 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
What has worked for me is to be nice, but nicely aloof. I've found the permanent BFF problem happens when the person sees you standing up for them. By all means, get your co-workers to stop picking on this person, but do it discretely, like behind their back.
It's a win/ win in my book. Awkward co-worker has an easier time of it, and you don't get velcroed.
posted by Leezie at 8:01 AM on August 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
How much of your horror of her has to do with the fear of being associated with her and therefore becoming another target of office humor? Be honest.
posted by hermitosis at 8:14 AM on August 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 8:14 AM on August 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
What you're feeling is perfectly normal and human. It's what we primates do, socially, I'm afraid: push away anyone who isn't fitting in. You have your rational reasons, as well—if you're nice to an outcast, they can end up clinging to you.
But you don't have to be her BFF to be a nice, decent co-worker. Keep conversation polite and restricted to work topics but try, little by little, to get rid of some of the unhappiness that you are feeling by realizing that it's not necessary to take a stance of antipathy toward her.
You say:
Start small. Maybe meet her eye and smile while giving her a polite brush-off next time you have to interact.
And, at the very least, don't participate in mean-spirited joking about her. If you can, maybe even defend her a bit. "Ha, ha, you're right, Sherry can be a bit much sometimes. But she's a good egg underneath, and she really did a great job on the Anderson account." or whatever.
posted by BrashTech at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2011 [8 favorites]
But you don't have to be her BFF to be a nice, decent co-worker. Keep conversation polite and restricted to work topics but try, little by little, to get rid of some of the unhappiness that you are feeling by realizing that it's not necessary to take a stance of antipathy toward her.
You say:
I feel for her...Start there. You know where she's coming from, and it's a nice place. Think of all the people you have to interact with who are mean, vindictive, and toxic. Appreciate that she seems to be a thoroughly nice person, and enjoy that fact about her. Starting from this appreciation, using empathy and compassion, try to let go of some of the strong negative feelings that she currently invokes in you. Do you sometimes have trouble fitting in? Do you sometimes say something stupid because you're nervous? Think about your thoughts and feelings at those times, and realize that hers are probably similar. As you understand and forgive your own awkwardness, try to understand and forgive hers.
Start small. Maybe meet her eye and smile while giving her a polite brush-off next time you have to interact.
And, at the very least, don't participate in mean-spirited joking about her. If you can, maybe even defend her a bit. "Ha, ha, you're right, Sherry can be a bit much sometimes. But she's a good egg underneath, and she really did a great job on the Anderson account." or whatever.
posted by BrashTech at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2011 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I've been on both ends. Sometimes I'm this woman, other times I'm the OP. I know exactly what the woman is going through. I don't let people easily in my life because of this. I always have unusual, funny repulsive things to say. I say them not to get attention but because I find them interesting. This is who I am. It's also an awesome guage in recognizing people who are comfortable enough in their own skin if they can handle my quirks. You may think she's doing it for attention but she's really not. Yes, she wants to be liked but because she has no support of anyone there, she's sorta reacting with things that sound stupid to you. It's not a fun place to be and more often she's a target for people to hurt her.
Now, at the same token, I've dealt with clingy, desperate people who actually sound more like your co-workers. They are mean, judgmental and are quick to shut down any oddities (especially if you don't do the same things they do) but once you pull away, they act like your best friend however, always need something from you. It's fine you are keeping your mental space. I suggest just acting civil, DO make small talk but play it absolutely cool so she can learn to calm down. That's what she needs at this time. She needs to mirror someone of a calm demeanor and my gut tells me she will, once you treat her like an adult instead of a bug that needs to be squashed.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 8:20 AM on August 30, 2011 [11 favorites]
Now, at the same token, I've dealt with clingy, desperate people who actually sound more like your co-workers. They are mean, judgmental and are quick to shut down any oddities (especially if you don't do the same things they do) but once you pull away, they act like your best friend however, always need something from you. It's fine you are keeping your mental space. I suggest just acting civil, DO make small talk but play it absolutely cool so she can learn to calm down. That's what she needs at this time. She needs to mirror someone of a calm demeanor and my gut tells me she will, once you treat her like an adult instead of a bug that needs to be squashed.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 8:20 AM on August 30, 2011 [11 favorites]
i've been this person (unfortunately) and there is nothing more humiliating then knowing that you came across as insecure and needy to people that barely know you. my best advice? initially start out with keeping conversations to a minimum, for every negative trait that you dislike, find two traits that you like, think about how you want to 'define' this relationship and the boundaries that you want, tell the person gently "you know, you don't have to do _____" because she is probably unaware of the fact that it comes across as needy, pathetic, or whatever other term you want to insert here. only do the last thing once you feel comfortable enough around the person because someone has to tell her and she probably doesn't realize that she is coming across this way. i never realized that i came across this way until certain people stopped talking to me, i felt humiliated for what i did because it came across as far too needy, but if someone told me this then i would have become more aware and would have stopped doing certain things.
you shouldn't think negatively about the person (and if you do, find a balance between positive and negative with the 2 positive traits, 1 negative trait system), don't ignore the co-worker or just randomly stop talking to the person, don't mention your decision to be kind to this person to other co-workers.
it takes one person, like yourself to have the strength to be kind to someone in these situations which can lead to other people treating her kindly too. it seems like she is just lonely (from what you've told us) and that she's being overly kind, sure, that can be creepy, but it's much better than being ignorant or condescending.
posted by sincerely-s at 8:43 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
you shouldn't think negatively about the person (and if you do, find a balance between positive and negative with the 2 positive traits, 1 negative trait system), don't ignore the co-worker or just randomly stop talking to the person, don't mention your decision to be kind to this person to other co-workers.
it takes one person, like yourself to have the strength to be kind to someone in these situations which can lead to other people treating her kindly too. it seems like she is just lonely (from what you've told us) and that she's being overly kind, sure, that can be creepy, but it's much better than being ignorant or condescending.
posted by sincerely-s at 8:43 AM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: This woman is the butt of a lot of not-so-secret office jokes.
Do you stand up for her?
A lot of what you're describing makes it sound like you feel "power down" in this relationship and in this office. It is remarkable the feeling of personal power that comes from standing up for the underdog. It's also really hard! For all that "cheering for the underdog" is a staple plot, it can be very frightening to be the person who says "hey, that was unkind", "I think we should layoff [co-worker]", and "huh? what do you mean?" in response to jokes at the expense of the outcast. It's especially hard because joining in these jokes is a way of bonding, and refusing that bonding can make *you* an outcast, too (or reinforce your pre-existing outsider status).
But it has benefits beyond the moral benefit of sticking up for someone. It makes you feel like a stronger person. It makes you feel like a kinder person. It actually *makes* you a kinder person, because, once you've sacrificed status for your self-identity as a kind person, you're more invested in that identity and value it more. In the long term, it acts on other people who were behaving unkindly and encourages them to behave more kindly. It earns you the respect of people whose respect is worth having. It earns you the dislike of people whose dislike is worth having.
Also, standing up for this woman (even outside of her presence -- god I hope these jokes aren't being made to her face) will increase your own sense of control over your office environment and your relationship with her. Plus, if you can even slightly and subtly shift the office dynamic towards fewer "office jokes" about her, you can reduce the neediness that's making you uncomfortable.
posted by endless_forms at 8:57 AM on August 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
Do you stand up for her?
A lot of what you're describing makes it sound like you feel "power down" in this relationship and in this office. It is remarkable the feeling of personal power that comes from standing up for the underdog. It's also really hard! For all that "cheering for the underdog" is a staple plot, it can be very frightening to be the person who says "hey, that was unkind", "I think we should layoff [co-worker]", and "huh? what do you mean?" in response to jokes at the expense of the outcast. It's especially hard because joining in these jokes is a way of bonding, and refusing that bonding can make *you* an outcast, too (or reinforce your pre-existing outsider status).
But it has benefits beyond the moral benefit of sticking up for someone. It makes you feel like a stronger person. It makes you feel like a kinder person. It actually *makes* you a kinder person, because, once you've sacrificed status for your self-identity as a kind person, you're more invested in that identity and value it more. In the long term, it acts on other people who were behaving unkindly and encourages them to behave more kindly. It earns you the respect of people whose respect is worth having. It earns you the dislike of people whose dislike is worth having.
Also, standing up for this woman (even outside of her presence -- god I hope these jokes aren't being made to her face) will increase your own sense of control over your office environment and your relationship with her. Plus, if you can even slightly and subtly shift the office dynamic towards fewer "office jokes" about her, you can reduce the neediness that's making you uncomfortable.
posted by endless_forms at 8:57 AM on August 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
Could you have a private conversation with her to explain that her behavior makes you uncomfortable? As if the problem is as much yours as it is hers. You take some responsibility and ask for her cooperation. Perhaps you could say that you are easily distracted and are having trouble focusing. Perhaps you could allude to a previous office relationship that went bad so you are resolved to avoid office friendships. Tell her that you appreciate her offers of social interaction but what you need is isolation and solitude. Then if she continues her annoying behavior, instead of being rude you can reference the conversation and remind her that you asked for her cooperation.
posted by conrad53 at 9:22 AM on August 30, 2011
posted by conrad53 at 9:22 AM on August 30, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks for all the responses here, I really appreciate it. I'm already getting a better idea of how to handle this situation.
To add just a few details - I'm hardly a social butterfly of the office. I'm quiet, I keep to myself, I have one or two alliances and friendships and everyone else I'm distant with - not because I dislike them but because I don't have the time or emotional energy to be friends with everyone. Usually people pick up on this and give me some space, and seem to realize I don't dislike them, I just like to keep my head down and focus on my work.
I'm also very easily overwhelmed and and upset by other people's emotional intensity. It doesn't take much to make me retreat into my shell and just wait for it to be over with.
I do have a long history of being nice and then suddenly finding myself in a friendship who is a perfectly nice and good person but with whom I am Not. Comfortable. And then things can get unpleasant. I don't feel I need to do that anymore. I need to find a middle ground and get better at setting the boundaries there.
Thanks again!
posted by bunderful at 9:37 AM on August 30, 2011
To add just a few details - I'm hardly a social butterfly of the office. I'm quiet, I keep to myself, I have one or two alliances and friendships and everyone else I'm distant with - not because I dislike them but because I don't have the time or emotional energy to be friends with everyone. Usually people pick up on this and give me some space, and seem to realize I don't dislike them, I just like to keep my head down and focus on my work.
I'm also very easily overwhelmed and and upset by other people's emotional intensity. It doesn't take much to make me retreat into my shell and just wait for it to be over with.
I do have a long history of being nice and then suddenly finding myself in a friendship who is a perfectly nice and good person but with whom I am Not. Comfortable. And then things can get unpleasant. I don't feel I need to do that anymore. I need to find a middle ground and get better at setting the boundaries there.
Thanks again!
posted by bunderful at 9:37 AM on August 30, 2011
Best answer: I agree that a little kindness from you and the others in your office may go a long way to reducing her neediness and awkwardness.
1. Talk to her regularly, in passing, with something in your had, obviously busy and on your way to somewhere else. Have a reason to extricate yourself from the situation if she goes on. "Thanks for sharing! Gotta run to x meeting...Take care!" Aim for 1-2 minute conversations, work-related.
2. If you genuinely can't stand to be around her, always have plans when approached for social occasions by her.
3. If you don't feel comfortable stopping the jokes, then quietly and non-dramatically extricate yourself from the group when they start ragging on her. Seriously, that is junior high school mean girls/boys stuff that sadly some folks never grow out of, and I am embarrassed for your colleagues who pull that crap if they are old enough to drink.
Good on you for wanting to be nicer.
posted by smirkette at 10:21 AM on August 30, 2011
1. Talk to her regularly, in passing, with something in your had, obviously busy and on your way to somewhere else. Have a reason to extricate yourself from the situation if she goes on. "Thanks for sharing! Gotta run to x meeting...Take care!" Aim for 1-2 minute conversations, work-related.
2. If you genuinely can't stand to be around her, always have plans when approached for social occasions by her.
3. If you don't feel comfortable stopping the jokes, then quietly and non-dramatically extricate yourself from the group when they start ragging on her. Seriously, that is junior high school mean girls/boys stuff that sadly some folks never grow out of, and I am embarrassed for your colleagues who pull that crap if they are old enough to drink.
Good on you for wanting to be nicer.
posted by smirkette at 10:21 AM on August 30, 2011
Best answer: I feel for her, but I have a deep irrational fear with certain (needy) people that if I don't keep my boundaries firmly up they will glom on to me.
This isn't necessarily irrational, but I understand why you wouldn't be pleased with it. I think your goals here would best be met by a strategy that has you making eye contact and engaging with her in a strictly (and overtly) professional way, and keeping those interactions as short as possible.
So, when she approaches you with a question or a concern, look her straight in the eye and in a confident, kindly voice say "I only have a moment, but [answer her question or discuss/address her concern.] Is that what you were looking for?"
If she asks a followup or offers more information, engage within reason, but if she's dragging it out, reiterate "I'm sorry, but I have something I have to get back to. If you send me an email, I will respond when I can." Or, if there's someone else better suited to helping her, suggest it: "I have to get back to work, but you know who can help you with this? [person]." Then go back to your desk.
If she's rude enough to keep trying to engage you when you're back at your desk and working, you can turn around and say "I'm sorry, [person], but I have to focus on this. Can you please summarize it in an email and I'll read it when I can?" When she agrees, smile and thank her, and get back to work.
As for the jokes, don't participate in them; just stay out of it. Worst case, if people try to engage you in it, take the high road: "You know, she's not a bad person. She does a good job." And disengage.
posted by davejay at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2011
This isn't necessarily irrational, but I understand why you wouldn't be pleased with it. I think your goals here would best be met by a strategy that has you making eye contact and engaging with her in a strictly (and overtly) professional way, and keeping those interactions as short as possible.
So, when she approaches you with a question or a concern, look her straight in the eye and in a confident, kindly voice say "I only have a moment, but [answer her question or discuss/address her concern.] Is that what you were looking for?"
If she asks a followup or offers more information, engage within reason, but if she's dragging it out, reiterate "I'm sorry, but I have something I have to get back to. If you send me an email, I will respond when I can." Or, if there's someone else better suited to helping her, suggest it: "I have to get back to work, but you know who can help you with this? [person]." Then go back to your desk.
If she's rude enough to keep trying to engage you when you're back at your desk and working, you can turn around and say "I'm sorry, [person], but I have to focus on this. Can you please summarize it in an email and I'll read it when I can?" When she agrees, smile and thank her, and get back to work.
As for the jokes, don't participate in them; just stay out of it. Worst case, if people try to engage you in it, take the high road: "You know, she's not a bad person. She does a good job." And disengage.
posted by davejay at 10:56 AM on August 30, 2011
Best answer: The Meaning of Liff (a tragically underappreciated little book by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd) has a series of definitions that I still think of on a nearly daily basis after first reading the book over 10 years ago, and I think they fit your situation somewhat.
clabby (adj)Now, she is being clabby to get you to become closer to her, not to avoid work; and as a coworker you need to be more helpful than a by-the-book clixby response would dictate, but you still need to cut off her clabby conversation attempts as brusquely and as firmly as possible. There is no dishonor or shame in being clixby when it is needed.posted by Rock Steady at 11:34 AM on August 30, 2011 [7 favorites]
A clabby conversation is one struck up by a commissionaire or cleaning lady in order to avoid any further actual work. The opening gambit is usually designed to provoke the maximum confusion, and therefore the longest possible clabby conversation. It is vitally important to learn the correct use of clixby (q.v.), the response to a clabby gambit, and not to get trapped by a ditherington (q.v.). For instance, if confronted by a clabby gambit such as 'Oh Mr Smith, I didn't know you'd had your leg off', the ditherington response is 'I haven't...' whereas the clixby is 'Good'.
clixby (adj)
Politely rude. Briskly vague. Firmly uninformative.
ditherington (n)
Sudden access of panic experienced by one who realises that he is being drawn into a clabby (q.v.) conversation, i.e. one he has no hope of enjoying, benefiting from or understanding.
Best answer: I know exactly what this situation is like.
We had a coworker who was foisted off on us because his entire department lied their heads off in the reference process to get rid of him. They (the other people in the department) actually told us that once they were hired and laughed.
Here is another thing you want to avoid happening - your defense of her being made your problem. I defended the new person, who was so socially awkward that I couldn't work with them (and I'm the biggest doofus on earth, so please calibrate how awkward someone has to be before a woman who collects textbooks and writes little songs about pirate cats thinks that they're awkward). But everyone was mean and cruel, and I told them that it wasn't nice. Somehow this meant that because I wanted to be decent and fair, I had to be the one to retrain a forty-year-old adult into normal social discourse.
It did not go well.
I would be very cool but polite (which it sounds like you do). I would also phrase any defense of them as 'this is maybe not the best way to productively work with that person, you all' or something like that, so it's not you defending them as a human being, but you defending them as a producer of work. It sucks to have to take that approach, but it's better than sitting in the car each day before you get to work crying because you can't figure out how to make someone socially acceptable without their knowledge.
posted by winna at 7:37 PM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
We had a coworker who was foisted off on us because his entire department lied their heads off in the reference process to get rid of him. They (the other people in the department) actually told us that once they were hired and laughed.
Here is another thing you want to avoid happening - your defense of her being made your problem. I defended the new person, who was so socially awkward that I couldn't work with them (and I'm the biggest doofus on earth, so please calibrate how awkward someone has to be before a woman who collects textbooks and writes little songs about pirate cats thinks that they're awkward). But everyone was mean and cruel, and I told them that it wasn't nice. Somehow this meant that because I wanted to be decent and fair, I had to be the one to retrain a forty-year-old adult into normal social discourse.
It did not go well.
I would be very cool but polite (which it sounds like you do). I would also phrase any defense of them as 'this is maybe not the best way to productively work with that person, you all' or something like that, so it's not you defending them as a human being, but you defending them as a producer of work. It sucks to have to take that approach, but it's better than sitting in the car each day before you get to work crying because you can't figure out how to make someone socially acceptable without their knowledge.
posted by winna at 7:37 PM on August 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Winna, that sounds like an awful situation. :P Thanks for your input.
(I do love the idea of pirate cat songs!)
posted by bunderful at 9:09 PM on August 30, 2011
(I do love the idea of pirate cat songs!)
posted by bunderful at 9:09 PM on August 30, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by joannemullen at 6:09 AM on August 30, 2011 [51 favorites]