How do I prepare myself to file for divorce?
August 27, 2011 8:41 PM Subscribe
I am preparing to file for divorce from my husband. What should I be doing before actually filing to protect my interests and make sure that things go as smoothly as possible? And how does this even work?
For starters, please don't worry dear MeFites, I will be working with a lawyer.
Here are my specifics:
For starters, please don't worry dear MeFites, I will be working with a lawyer.
Here are my specifics:
- I am in Iowa, which is a no-fault, community property state.
- My husband works with the Army (but is not a soldier) and is currently deployed. He will be out of the country for the next five months.
- We do not have children.
- I also work with the Army (as a contractor) and we do encounter each other in our work lives here, even when he is gone. Three times this week, I've run into people as I'm walking around who said, "Oh hey, I talked to your husband earlier today." He is considered one of the higher-ranking people there, as a contractor I'm at the bottom of the chain.
- I am not worried about any safety/domestic violence types of issues.
- But I am worried about finances. He makes significantly more than I do, everything is in joint accounts, and money is very important to him. I do believe that as soon as I file or inform him that I am filing, he could move to block my access to our shared resources. And yes, he could do this easily even from his deployed position. I also believe that if I go to make a move by taking out a portion of the joint account (whatever my attorney advises), then the financial managers we use will inform him and/or his mother as opposed to just letting it show up on the statement. They have worked with the family for years.
- What can I do and what info should I start gathering in order to make things easier for my attorney? Do you have any general tips on getting the most out of the attorney-client relationship?
- What should I expect to experience in terms of emotions during this time? Right now I'm at "certain but scared".
- What kinds of awkwardness might I encounter at work? I can generally try to stay away from "his" side of the organization but sometimes it's unavoidable.
- Can anyone recommend some checklist for getting started and getting through this? I really love checklists, but there are so many online and I don't know how to evaluate them. I know I need to think about finances, housing, benefits and insurance, and all kinds of things but I don't want to miss anything.
- What else am I forgetting to ask about??
Do you have any general tips on getting the most out of the attorney-client relationship?
Hi there. I'm an attorney. I am not your attorney, and this is not legal advice. But you've asked a good, general question—apart from all your specific facts, which I'm not touching with a ten-foot-pole because that would be legal advice no matter how much we both say it's not—and I'll try to answer.
Generally speaking, a client can get the most out of an attorney-client relationship by understanding a few basic principles. First, be a "polite pest." Some attorneys are better than others about keeping on top of your case, returning phone calls, filing deadlines, etc. I love the phrase "polite pest" because it combines two adages, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" and "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." A proactive client will always get a better performance from his/her attorney than a passive client. Be a "polite pest."
Second, understand that attorneys are usually trying to get one of two things from their clients: (1) facts, or (2) decisions. Deliver on these and you'll have a better experience. You can oblige the first by understanding the difference between facts and characterizations. "I was driving safely" is a characterization. "I was driving 35 mph in a posted 35 mph zone, and I turned on my left blinker about 100 feet before the stop sign" is factual. "I am a good parent" is a characterization. "I attended all 12 of my son's hockey games this summer, including two that were located 100 miles away from me in Connecticut" is factual. Et cetera. Names, dates, addresses, phone numbers. Facts rule.
As for decisions...? Your attorney can guide you if you're uncertain. But there comes a time when there's no more information and it's time to make a decision, and that's your job. Some attorneys will behave poorly if their clients don't take advice. Be firm and clear and respectful, and you'll have done all you can to avoid that.
Keep records. This is for everybody's convenience, yours and your attorney's. Keep copies of correspondence back and forth. Keep bills, receipts, medical records, police reports, insurance claims, etc. If you can think of a record that might be useful, get a copy of it for yourself, and inform your attorney that you have it. Whether or not he/she needs that particular document, you can aid the attorney-client relationship by maximizing the extent to which you are a treasure-trove of evidence. Most attorneys don't really like digging around for records. (Most clients don't like being billed for records-retrieval that they could have done themselves.) Most attorneys would rather represent, and will do a better job for, a client who has done his/her own mise en place.
Those are some general tips. They aren't specific to your circumstance; they would be equally relevant if you or your uncle or your best friend's landlord were being represented in a car-accident claim or a wrongful-termination suit or a driving-while-intoxicated charge. None of this is legal advice. I am not your lawyer, nor am I licensed in your jurisdiction. I've never even visited Iowa. You should consult your attorney regarding anything and everything, and if anything that he says contradicts anything that I've written in this post, then you should curse my advice and follow his. Seriously. Good luck.
posted by red clover at 9:45 PM on August 27, 2011 [55 favorites]
Hi there. I'm an attorney. I am not your attorney, and this is not legal advice. But you've asked a good, general question—apart from all your specific facts, which I'm not touching with a ten-foot-pole because that would be legal advice no matter how much we both say it's not—and I'll try to answer.
Generally speaking, a client can get the most out of an attorney-client relationship by understanding a few basic principles. First, be a "polite pest." Some attorneys are better than others about keeping on top of your case, returning phone calls, filing deadlines, etc. I love the phrase "polite pest" because it combines two adages, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" and "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." A proactive client will always get a better performance from his/her attorney than a passive client. Be a "polite pest."
Second, understand that attorneys are usually trying to get one of two things from their clients: (1) facts, or (2) decisions. Deliver on these and you'll have a better experience. You can oblige the first by understanding the difference between facts and characterizations. "I was driving safely" is a characterization. "I was driving 35 mph in a posted 35 mph zone, and I turned on my left blinker about 100 feet before the stop sign" is factual. "I am a good parent" is a characterization. "I attended all 12 of my son's hockey games this summer, including two that were located 100 miles away from me in Connecticut" is factual. Et cetera. Names, dates, addresses, phone numbers. Facts rule.
As for decisions...? Your attorney can guide you if you're uncertain. But there comes a time when there's no more information and it's time to make a decision, and that's your job. Some attorneys will behave poorly if their clients don't take advice. Be firm and clear and respectful, and you'll have done all you can to avoid that.
Keep records. This is for everybody's convenience, yours and your attorney's. Keep copies of correspondence back and forth. Keep bills, receipts, medical records, police reports, insurance claims, etc. If you can think of a record that might be useful, get a copy of it for yourself, and inform your attorney that you have it. Whether or not he/she needs that particular document, you can aid the attorney-client relationship by maximizing the extent to which you are a treasure-trove of evidence. Most attorneys don't really like digging around for records. (Most clients don't like being billed for records-retrieval that they could have done themselves.) Most attorneys would rather represent, and will do a better job for, a client who has done his/her own mise en place.
Those are some general tips. They aren't specific to your circumstance; they would be equally relevant if you or your uncle or your best friend's landlord were being represented in a car-accident claim or a wrongful-termination suit or a driving-while-intoxicated charge. None of this is legal advice. I am not your lawyer, nor am I licensed in your jurisdiction. I've never even visited Iowa. You should consult your attorney regarding anything and everything, and if anything that he says contradicts anything that I've written in this post, then you should curse my advice and follow his. Seriously. Good luck.
posted by red clover at 9:45 PM on August 27, 2011 [55 favorites]
Following on to red clover's advice, from what I heard the first you want to do is to document all of the assets and income (yours, his and joint). So get account numbers and most recent statements plus an extra copy of last year's tax return and the W2s.
posted by metahawk at 10:43 PM on August 27, 2011
posted by metahawk at 10:43 PM on August 27, 2011
I have little comment other than to listen to your lawyer, and to keep in mind Red Clover's excellent advice about your role vs. your attorney's role. It makes me want to frame it and put it up on my wall for my clients to see.
Oh, also, make sure your fee agreement with the lawyer is clear. Is there an up-front, non-refundable fee? What's the hourly? How much time is it estimated to take? Etc.
posted by Happydaz at 1:14 AM on August 28, 2011
Oh, also, make sure your fee agreement with the lawyer is clear. Is there an up-front, non-refundable fee? What's the hourly? How much time is it estimated to take? Etc.
posted by Happydaz at 1:14 AM on August 28, 2011
You've gotten excellent advice so far on how to deal with your lawyer. One other thing you should do is make sure your lawyer is experienced with military divorces -- there can be financial issues involved in a military divorce that are particularly complex.
posted by katemonster at 6:00 AM on August 28, 2011
posted by katemonster at 6:00 AM on August 28, 2011
Building on Red Clover's excellent advice, it is so much more helpful if you don't just walk in with all of your paperwork, for example, but all of your paperwork filed in folders with a well organised cover sheet for all of it. So under the heading of Finances, you might on your cover sheet have a bullet point for each spouse's income, and then bullet points for your specific financial questions. Same for Benefits. Same for Housing.
I do believe that as soon as I file or inform him that I am filing, he could move to block my access to our shared resources.
Talk to your attorney. This is not an unsolved problem, and she will have advice on how to deal with this possibility in Iowa. I do not. Things I can make up out of my ass include withdrawing whatever amount your attorney suggests is kosher in Iowa at noon and serving him at 1PM, at which point who gives a fig what his mother or your now ex-financial adviser thinks or does. The point is that there will be a way to deal with this even if you don't know what it is right now.
In general, however, I would urge you to begin establishing your own credit immediately. Apply for a sole credit card using your current address with its good credit history. Test that it works and that you know the PIN and then save it for emergencies. Open an account at a local credit union. See point 2 here and thank God you don't have kids right now.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:36 AM on August 28, 2011
I do believe that as soon as I file or inform him that I am filing, he could move to block my access to our shared resources.
Talk to your attorney. This is not an unsolved problem, and she will have advice on how to deal with this possibility in Iowa. I do not. Things I can make up out of my ass include withdrawing whatever amount your attorney suggests is kosher in Iowa at noon and serving him at 1PM, at which point who gives a fig what his mother or your now ex-financial adviser thinks or does. The point is that there will be a way to deal with this even if you don't know what it is right now.
In general, however, I would urge you to begin establishing your own credit immediately. Apply for a sole credit card using your current address with its good credit history. Test that it works and that you know the PIN and then save it for emergencies. Open an account at a local credit union. See point 2 here and thank God you don't have kids right now.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:36 AM on August 28, 2011
Metahawk has it. Get full documentation. Talk to the lawyer first, however.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:37 AM on August 28, 2011
posted by Ironmouth at 7:37 AM on August 28, 2011
I'd recommend getting a nuts-and-bolts book on the basics of divorce, such as Nolo's Essential Guide to Divorce so you can go in to your sessions with your attorney with a better understanding of the basics of the process, especially the financial side. You'll make much better use of your time with your attorney (including guidance on how to even find the right attorney in the first place) if you do this kind of homework first.
posted by drlith at 7:59 AM on August 28, 2011
posted by drlith at 7:59 AM on August 28, 2011
Emotionally, even though it was painful, the exhilaration from having a plan and finally carrying it out (through some difficult times) got me through the rough patches. My divorce should have happened years before it did, and when I finally did the work the feeling of a burden being lifted was almost overwhelming. YMMV. I hope you have a friend/family member that you can talk to (NOT your attorney, he/she is a paid professional, not your friend). Work may be rough; you haven't mentioned much about the circumstances of your divorce, but it may help to write a short list of reasons why you're doing this to refer to when things get tough. You will get through it.
posted by sorrygottago at 8:19 AM on August 28, 2011
posted by sorrygottago at 8:19 AM on August 28, 2011
Make copies of bank statements, tax returns, retirement fund statements, loan documents for house, car, etc., and maybe walk around the house photographing things. If you photocopy documents and convert to .pdf, you can store them someplace like dropbox, or in a separate gmail account.
With no kids, you can hope for a low-stress divorce. Tell your husband you want a fair settlement and will work with him to make it that way. Consider a mediated divorce. I had a mediated divorce that was much cheaper and less stress than 2 lawyers duking it out. I did have a lawyer review the document on my behalf, just out of caution, and she also did the filing.
Every state has some kind of legal aid group, and they almost certainly will have a divorce guide. So will your state's attorney general's website. Being informed will help you prepare, and that saves money on legal fees.
posted by theora55 at 9:22 AM on August 28, 2011
With no kids, you can hope for a low-stress divorce. Tell your husband you want a fair settlement and will work with him to make it that way. Consider a mediated divorce. I had a mediated divorce that was much cheaper and less stress than 2 lawyers duking it out. I did have a lawyer review the document on my behalf, just out of caution, and she also did the filing.
Every state has some kind of legal aid group, and they almost certainly will have a divorce guide. So will your state's attorney general's website. Being informed will help you prepare, and that saves money on legal fees.
posted by theora55 at 9:22 AM on August 28, 2011
I've never been in your position, but from your description, I know I'd feel better if I were looking for other employment opportunities (especially in a new town) if I were in your position. He's got more power at work, and sadly, people tend to side with power and authority if not from predilection, than from a sense of self-preservation. Good luck--I can't even imagine how hard this must be.
posted by smirkette at 9:24 AM on August 28, 2011
posted by smirkette at 9:24 AM on August 28, 2011
Before you talk to your lawyer, make damn sure you select a good one. That does not translate to the most expensive one. There are many who will gladly take your money yet offer lousy advice. As for finding a good lawyer, now is a good time to meet new friends in your area that have recently divorced. Dig as much as you can about good lawyers. Lawyers are just like every other profession, good ones and bad ones.
posted by nogero at 9:33 AM on August 28, 2011
posted by nogero at 9:33 AM on August 28, 2011
This is not legal advice, but rather a guide to obtaining legal advice. Since you are not in physical danger and your husband does not know of your plans, don't take any action with respect to finances until you hire an attorney (which is not the same thing as visiting an attorney.) Hiring an attorney means signing an engagement letter which sets forth the scope of the representation and discloses applicable fees and charges. Don't sign one until you are completely comfortable with the attorney.
The big mistake people make when hiring lawyers, for any purpose, is to rely on the attorney to do work that the client is able to do him/herself. The hourly billing rate of attorneys, even small-town attorneys, is high. Paralegals and other support staff in a law firm are typically also profit centers. Instead, rely on your attorney to provide legal advice and delegate administrative, logistical and fact-gathering tasks to yourself. You will save a ton of money. (Even if an attorney is charging a flat fee, doing your own work upfront will result in higher quality and more attentive service.)
Write a memo. Nothing fancy. Just list the chronology of your marital and financial history. List all significant events, including moves, new jobs/loss of jobs, and large purchases (i.e. homes and cars). In each portion of the chronology make reference to backup documentation. Make sure to write the current date and the legend "Attorney-Client Privileged Communication" on each page. Don't give it to an attorney until you've signed an engagement letter.
In addition to enabling the attorney to do his/her job more efficiently, the process will empower you with a sense of power and control over your situation.
(Just a note of warning about gathering documentation. You should definitely get together as much stuff as you can to the extent you already have it - copies of bank statements, credit card statements, insurance info, leases, etc. Organize all of this material as best as you can - by subject and then chronologically - and make a binder for your lawyer [lawyers love binders] along with an identical copy for yourself. But don't do anything that necessitates getting documents from a third party, including your bank. The last thing you want is for your husband to see that you've been downloading all of your bank statements for the past 3 years. Instead, tell your attorney in the cover memo about any gaps in documentation and what you will need to do in order to obtain the documentation. If your attorney needs this information, discuss with him/her about how best to preserve the confidentiality of what you are doing.)
posted by moammargaret at 9:34 AM on August 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
The big mistake people make when hiring lawyers, for any purpose, is to rely on the attorney to do work that the client is able to do him/herself. The hourly billing rate of attorneys, even small-town attorneys, is high. Paralegals and other support staff in a law firm are typically also profit centers. Instead, rely on your attorney to provide legal advice and delegate administrative, logistical and fact-gathering tasks to yourself. You will save a ton of money. (Even if an attorney is charging a flat fee, doing your own work upfront will result in higher quality and more attentive service.)
Write a memo. Nothing fancy. Just list the chronology of your marital and financial history. List all significant events, including moves, new jobs/loss of jobs, and large purchases (i.e. homes and cars). In each portion of the chronology make reference to backup documentation. Make sure to write the current date and the legend "Attorney-Client Privileged Communication" on each page. Don't give it to an attorney until you've signed an engagement letter.
In addition to enabling the attorney to do his/her job more efficiently, the process will empower you with a sense of power and control over your situation.
(Just a note of warning about gathering documentation. You should definitely get together as much stuff as you can to the extent you already have it - copies of bank statements, credit card statements, insurance info, leases, etc. Organize all of this material as best as you can - by subject and then chronologically - and make a binder for your lawyer [lawyers love binders] along with an identical copy for yourself. But don't do anything that necessitates getting documents from a third party, including your bank. The last thing you want is for your husband to see that you've been downloading all of your bank statements for the past 3 years. Instead, tell your attorney in the cover memo about any gaps in documentation and what you will need to do in order to obtain the documentation. If your attorney needs this information, discuss with him/her about how best to preserve the confidentiality of what you are doing.)
posted by moammargaret at 9:34 AM on August 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
Perhaps you've anonymized details but you happened to describe a single (large) workplace (or maybe two if we stretch).
As to bullet number 3, divorcing your husband while he's deployed is going to cause raised eyebrows and "Holy shits." Not that it isn't right for you, but a lot of the workforce is going to be inclined to see it from the side of the "poor bastard getting a dear john while in theater." Think about what percentage of your co-workers are former military or are military wives who "toughed it out." Or even the number who have deployed as civilians...
Add to this the fact that he's a permanent government employee, and higher ranking guy at that, and the sympathy cards are probably stacked against you. You're going to get a lot of "Why didn't you wait to do it face to face?" The answer's obvious to me and you but still...
On the other hand, if he's an asshole most people will know it...
I would ask your lawyer if it would be advisable to give your supervisor (in your company, not with the government) a heads up before or immediately after letting your husband know what's going on so they aren't surprised when the rumor mill gets running. It would also be worth discussing how your job might be affected and to what degree you may or may not be protected.
Also: Most people sign over power of attorney before deploying. I think it's even required. Tell your lawyer if you've been so designated and ask if there's anything you should or should not be doing as a result.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 3:42 PM on August 28, 2011
As to bullet number 3, divorcing your husband while he's deployed is going to cause raised eyebrows and "Holy shits." Not that it isn't right for you, but a lot of the workforce is going to be inclined to see it from the side of the "poor bastard getting a dear john while in theater." Think about what percentage of your co-workers are former military or are military wives who "toughed it out." Or even the number who have deployed as civilians...
Add to this the fact that he's a permanent government employee, and higher ranking guy at that, and the sympathy cards are probably stacked against you. You're going to get a lot of "Why didn't you wait to do it face to face?" The answer's obvious to me and you but still...
On the other hand, if he's an asshole most people will know it...
I would ask your lawyer if it would be advisable to give your supervisor (in your company, not with the government) a heads up before or immediately after letting your husband know what's going on so they aren't surprised when the rumor mill gets running. It would also be worth discussing how your job might be affected and to what degree you may or may not be protected.
Also: Most people sign over power of attorney before deploying. I think it's even required. Tell your lawyer if you've been so designated and ask if there's anything you should or should not be doing as a result.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 3:42 PM on August 28, 2011
In general, however, I would urge you to begin establishing your own credit immediately. Apply for a sole credit card using your current address with its good credit history.
In Wisconsin, which is also a community property state, you cannot do this (apply for credit without the knowledge/consent of your spouse - because it becomes their debt too). Iowa may vary and I am not a lawyer.
posted by desjardins at 4:29 PM on August 28, 2011
In Wisconsin, which is also a community property state, you cannot do this (apply for credit without the knowledge/consent of your spouse - because it becomes their debt too). Iowa may vary and I am not a lawyer.
posted by desjardins at 4:29 PM on August 28, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by twblalock at 8:59 PM on August 27, 2011 [15 favorites]