Should I drink?
August 24, 2011 11:44 AM Subscribe
I'm a male student in my early 20's. I've never had a drink of anything, but now I'm coming off of the medication (for a physical illness) that was stopping me. My mom's family is full of alcoholics, and I have some hints of addictive tendencies myself. I'd like to start drinking. Should I?
My mom's father and both of her brothers are recovered alcoholics, and I think it goes back another generation or two as well. My mom herself is probably mildly alcohol dependent. She used to drink most nights of the week, and her doctors told her to quit because of an unrelated liver disease, but once or twice a month she'll still buckle and have a couple of glasses of wine. She smoked from an early age, but quit in her 30's.
As to me: I've got a habit for pretty much everything I've ever done that's fun. I'm obese, I smoke more pot than I'd like (about three times a week), and I even masturbate more often than I probably should (more than once a day).
Mental health wise, I have general anxiety and intermittent mild depression; plus a pretty bad case of ADHD, which doesn't help with the poor impulse control. I don't abuse my rather fun ADHD med (dexedrine), but that has almost no addictive potential when used as directed anyway.
I'm European on my mom's side and Jewish on my dad's. There's no addiction in his family.
The folk wisdom says that if you drink in moderation from the start, you're pretty much safe from becoming an alcoholic. Is that borne out by research or a clinical consensus? How slippery is the slope? I haven't been able to find any relevant studies, let alone reviews or meta-analyses
Of course, this probably comes down to the particulars of my thought process and emotional health more than anything. I'm going to get a therapist soon, but still, I doubt that any amount of introspection could give me a prediction as accurate as looking at my tangible risk factors and previous behavior.
I could see a psychiatrist, of course, but I figured I'd cast a wide net on AskMe first. The wisdom of the crowd is probably more valuable than the clinical judgment of one doctor who won't be working with much more information about me than you guys are.
So: what do I do, AskMe? All thoughts and references are welcome.
My mom's father and both of her brothers are recovered alcoholics, and I think it goes back another generation or two as well. My mom herself is probably mildly alcohol dependent. She used to drink most nights of the week, and her doctors told her to quit because of an unrelated liver disease, but once or twice a month she'll still buckle and have a couple of glasses of wine. She smoked from an early age, but quit in her 30's.
As to me: I've got a habit for pretty much everything I've ever done that's fun. I'm obese, I smoke more pot than I'd like (about three times a week), and I even masturbate more often than I probably should (more than once a day).
Mental health wise, I have general anxiety and intermittent mild depression; plus a pretty bad case of ADHD, which doesn't help with the poor impulse control. I don't abuse my rather fun ADHD med (dexedrine), but that has almost no addictive potential when used as directed anyway.
I'm European on my mom's side and Jewish on my dad's. There's no addiction in his family.
The folk wisdom says that if you drink in moderation from the start, you're pretty much safe from becoming an alcoholic. Is that borne out by research or a clinical consensus? How slippery is the slope? I haven't been able to find any relevant studies, let alone reviews or meta-analyses
Of course, this probably comes down to the particulars of my thought process and emotional health more than anything. I'm going to get a therapist soon, but still, I doubt that any amount of introspection could give me a prediction as accurate as looking at my tangible risk factors and previous behavior.
I could see a psychiatrist, of course, but I figured I'd cast a wide net on AskMe first. The wisdom of the crowd is probably more valuable than the clinical judgment of one doctor who won't be working with much more information about me than you guys are.
So: what do I do, AskMe? All thoughts and references are welcome.
This is a no-brainer. Family history aside, your admitted addictive behavior and tendency towards depression makes consuming alcohol a very bad idea. You've got nothing to gain here, and potential for loss. Leave it alone.
posted by Specklet at 11:52 AM on August 24, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by Specklet at 11:52 AM on August 24, 2011 [11 favorites]
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here... but wait, hear me out. I have a strong-ass family history of alcohol/drug problems. I myself have a history of anxiety, depression and occasional compulsive behavior. However, I am amazingly, miraculously NOT a problem drinker. I enjoy a few drinks from time to time - but I can go months without having one, I never crave booze, I've never HAD to drink... and so on.
Personally, I think addictive behavior is part nature, part nurture, part personality and part current-life-situation. And I think that the genetic component is a lot like Russian roulette, and that a strong family history is just another few rounds in the gun. You may or may not dodge a bullet... and genetics may or may not play a part in whether you can/can't drink responsibly.
I'd try it. But I'd also be sure to watch yourself like a hawk and to HAVE OTHER PEOPLE DO IT, TOO. Approach the bottle in a humble and self-aware manner and you are less likely to wind up in deep trouble before you're even aware of it.
posted by julthumbscrew at 12:08 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Personally, I think addictive behavior is part nature, part nurture, part personality and part current-life-situation. And I think that the genetic component is a lot like Russian roulette, and that a strong family history is just another few rounds in the gun. You may or may not dodge a bullet... and genetics may or may not play a part in whether you can/can't drink responsibly.
I'd try it. But I'd also be sure to watch yourself like a hawk and to HAVE OTHER PEOPLE DO IT, TOO. Approach the bottle in a humble and self-aware manner and you are less likely to wind up in deep trouble before you're even aware of it.
posted by julthumbscrew at 12:08 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, as you've realized, in addition to your family history it seems like you have a personality that's prone to addiction, or at the very least to overuse of quick mood fixes like pot or masturbation. I think therapy is an EXCELLENT idea, but in addition I'd try to figure out some healthier ways to spend your time. I think if you can try to control your urges in general, and strengthen that "muscle" so to speak, you might be safe trying drinking eventually, but for now it sounds riskier than I'd feel comfortable with.
posted by shabaabk at 12:08 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by shabaabk at 12:08 PM on August 24, 2011
Alcohol is like fire. It's aesthetically pleasing, it can keep you warm at night and it can bring people together, but it can also scar you for life and destroy everyone and everything around you. That's true for anyone. With your personal history it'd be like lighting a campfire on a hot August day with yellow grass and tinder-dry twigs all around.
That's not a no, but the mild mental health issues and family history are giant risk factors. I'm concerned that you're underestimating the risk.
Given that you'll be going to a therapist, talk to her first. Expect to see her wear a concerned expression.
Suggested rules for anyone
Never drink alone
Never drink when you're sad
Never drink just to get drunk
Any alcoholism risk factors whatsoever? Two drink maximum, permanently
Get initiated by an older, sensible person...
Into a culture of sensible drinking (nursing a glass of scotch around the fireplace, not shots at the bar)
Have you tried cooking with wine? That's AWESOME! But, if you become a recovering alcoholic you won't be able to keep a bottle in the house. Add this to the cost of becoming an alcoholic, along with losing a career or a spouse.
note: you can't roast marshmallows with booze therefore fire > alcohol
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's not a no, but the mild mental health issues and family history are giant risk factors. I'm concerned that you're underestimating the risk.
Given that you'll be going to a therapist, talk to her first. Expect to see her wear a concerned expression.
Suggested rules for anyone
Never drink alone
Never drink when you're sad
Never drink just to get drunk
Any alcoholism risk factors whatsoever? Two drink maximum, permanently
Get initiated by an older, sensible person...
Into a culture of sensible drinking (nursing a glass of scotch around the fireplace, not shots at the bar)
Have you tried cooking with wine? That's AWESOME! But, if you become a recovering alcoholic you won't be able to keep a bottle in the house. Add this to the cost of becoming an alcoholic, along with losing a career or a spouse.
note: you can't roast marshmallows with booze therefore fire > alcohol
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
"Coming off of medication for a physical illness" is (probably deliberately) vague, but it seems to me the best person to ask about this could be your primary care doc, especially if said physical illness means you're checking in with him/her often. Ask if there's anything you should be concerned about given your family history, and have your doc check in with you at your next visit. I wouldn't waste much more time in the research literature; even if you did find a nice meta-analysis, you'd only have broad risk percentages vs. things specifically applicable to your situation.
I'm generally in favor of people trying out drinking if they're otherwise healthy but haven't done so for philosophical reasons and/or leftover childhood rigidity coupled with anxiety. I know a few folks like this who didn't start drinking until their mid-20s; some with alcoholism in their family, some without. (Of course, those folks wouldn't have touched marijuana, either.) But I can't say it'd be my first recommendation if you're feeling like your lifestyle is already fairly unhealthy right now, if you're struggling on multiple fronts psychologically, or if you feel like it's impossible for you to give habits up once you start them. Maybe there is a right time to try this out, but now just isn't it.
posted by deludingmyself at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm generally in favor of people trying out drinking if they're otherwise healthy but haven't done so for philosophical reasons and/or leftover childhood rigidity coupled with anxiety. I know a few folks like this who didn't start drinking until their mid-20s; some with alcoholism in their family, some without. (Of course, those folks wouldn't have touched marijuana, either.) But I can't say it'd be my first recommendation if you're feeling like your lifestyle is already fairly unhealthy right now, if you're struggling on multiple fronts psychologically, or if you feel like it's impossible for you to give habits up once you start them. Maybe there is a right time to try this out, but now just isn't it.
posted by deludingmyself at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
It really, really is a case of YMMV. I come from a long line of alcoholics. My father essentially drinks as a full time job. I have an extremely obsessive and addictive personality. I was always very conscientious about my relationship with alcohol and despite having been through a string of rehab and 12-step programmes, AA has never been one of them. I enjoy a good beer or a great wine, but I actually drink with extreme rarity. It just isn't compelling or a problem for me at all.
Whatever you decide I would encourage you not to make alcohol a bogeyman. Go out and have a beer. Or a glass of wine. Then go home and have no more and see how you feel about the experience the following day.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:10 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
Whatever you decide I would encourage you not to make alcohol a bogeyman. Go out and have a beer. Or a glass of wine. Then go home and have no more and see how you feel about the experience the following day.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:10 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'd talk to a doctor about this. On the one hand, I know a lot of people with alcoholic relatives who drink in moderation. On the other hand none of them have addictive personalities. So I'd talk to a doctor. And therapist. If you do drink, I would check in with a therapist regularly and run my amount of drinking by them. I did this when I was depressed, and people were telling me not to drink at all, and I didn't see the problem with moderation. He said I was fine, so I just listened to him.
posted by sweetkid at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by sweetkid at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2011
You sound like a candidate for waking up in the dumpster behind IHOP in two years to me. Don't do it.
posted by resurrexit at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by resurrexit at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm not by any means a teetotaler, but in your case, I'd consider it because your personal and family history both seem to be cautionary tales, rather than examples of why you should drink.
posted by Hylas at 12:19 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Hylas at 12:19 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're an adult now; you can do whatever you want. I suggest you be a smart adult, recognize your significant risk factors, and avoid alcohol.
Anecdata: I didn't start drinking until I was 22, and I have no family history of alcoholism, and discovered my limits fairly quickly and safely. However, when I was 15 I tried pot and loved it... loved it so much that I knew it would be a big problem if I kept using, so I have avoided it since.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:22 PM on August 24, 2011
Anecdata: I didn't start drinking until I was 22, and I have no family history of alcoholism, and discovered my limits fairly quickly and safely. However, when I was 15 I tried pot and loved it... loved it so much that I knew it would be a big problem if I kept using, so I have avoided it since.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:22 PM on August 24, 2011
The problem is that drinking is going to do wonders for your anxiety (and in the immediate-term, your depression). You're likely not going to be the kind of person who drinks socially; you're going to end up self-medicating with alcohol. Add an addictive personality on top of that, and you're a textbook candidate for alcohol abuse.
If you're able to avoid alcohol, I wouldn't go anywhere near it. It's got some hellacious side effects compared to the intoxicants you're used to.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:30 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you're able to avoid alcohol, I wouldn't go anywhere near it. It's got some hellacious side effects compared to the intoxicants you're used to.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:30 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
No one can tell you whether or not you'll be an alcoholic, but if I were you I'd tread very, very carefully. If I may offer a personal anecdote - I am a recovering alcoholic of a little over nine years. Before I first picked up a drink at age 21, I made a conscious decision not to, largely because alcoholism runs rampant on both sides of the family and I knew there was a clear genetic component to the disease (every single male for three generations on my fathers side is an alcoholic - luckily most of us are sober now.) On top of that, my mother was also a nurse in a hospital rehab, so I'd heard some horror stories. But, one day at age 21 I'd convinced myself for some reason that my chances of becoming an alcoholic were pretty darn slim, so what the hell, I'd have that drink that my best friend bought me. Within three months of that first drink I was a daily drinker, and my alcoholism only progressed downwards from there. I only drank for a total of six years, and for the entirety of it I knew I was an alcoholic, but I STILL either didn't want to stop, or simply couldn't (depending on at what stage of my drinking "career" you'd have asked.) It was only after things got so bad (unemployment, near homelessness, deteriorating physical health) that I was able to admit that the alcoholism I knew I had was something I could no longer control, and I got help.
So, I guess what I'm saying is - if you think you'll have a leg up on drinking because you're more aware of your own potential for alcoholism, think again. For an alcoholic, it's virtually impossible to "drink in moderation from the start" as you posed in your question. I had every intention of doing that, and I still couldn't. Your genetic makeup would seem to indicate your at greater risk for the disease. You already admit to having a addictive personality (much like I do.) As others have said, you have everything to lose and nothing to gain - aside from a few good buzzes in you future. Think very carefully before proceeding.
posted by Rewind at 12:38 PM on August 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
So, I guess what I'm saying is - if you think you'll have a leg up on drinking because you're more aware of your own potential for alcoholism, think again. For an alcoholic, it's virtually impossible to "drink in moderation from the start" as you posed in your question. I had every intention of doing that, and I still couldn't. Your genetic makeup would seem to indicate your at greater risk for the disease. You already admit to having a addictive personality (much like I do.) As others have said, you have everything to lose and nothing to gain - aside from a few good buzzes in you future. Think very carefully before proceeding.
posted by Rewind at 12:38 PM on August 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm going to buck the trend a little bit here and say that you can probably try a little and will be self-aware enough to be able to stop if you need to. I mean, it's not like there's a really great, compelling reason to start drinking if you already don't. But on the other hand it's most likely not going to be a have-one-drink, descend-into-life-of-alcoholism situation for you.
My anecdata: I come from a family history of desperate alcoholism and substance abuse (most immediate relatives, many less-than-immediate relatives have serious issues, either legal or health-related, associated with alcohol abuse). I didn't drink until I was 20 out of fear of addiction. I drank in college to a degree that I'd call "heavy average". It was a fun, social experience. I have not stopped drinking officially, but since I left college I would say I average less than one alcoholic drink a month. Despite my family history, I have significant tendencies toward addictive eating but no apparent tendencies towards other substance abuse issues.
posted by penduluum at 12:40 PM on August 24, 2011
My anecdata: I come from a family history of desperate alcoholism and substance abuse (most immediate relatives, many less-than-immediate relatives have serious issues, either legal or health-related, associated with alcohol abuse). I didn't drink until I was 20 out of fear of addiction. I drank in college to a degree that I'd call "heavy average". It was a fun, social experience. I have not stopped drinking officially, but since I left college I would say I average less than one alcoholic drink a month. Despite my family history, I have significant tendencies toward addictive eating but no apparent tendencies towards other substance abuse issues.
posted by penduluum at 12:40 PM on August 24, 2011
I'm obese, I smoke more pot than I'd like (about three times a week), and I even masturbate more often than I probably should (more than once a day).
On top of its addictive properties, alcohol will contribute to your obesity, possibly interact unfavorably with your weed usage, and it won't do you many favors in the sexual functioning department.
posted by hermitosis at 12:41 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
On top of its addictive properties, alcohol will contribute to your obesity, possibly interact unfavorably with your weed usage, and it won't do you many favors in the sexual functioning department.
posted by hermitosis at 12:41 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I agree with the people saying "Don't go there"--knowing you have anxiety problems and are already a pot smoker, I'd guess you're going to be the type of person who will like drinking a little too much. There IS an alcoholism gene--which in large part explains why some people with a family history can completely keep it under control and some people become almost instantly dependent/addicted (I will admit there are definitely personality/circumstantial factors). Sounds like you could very well have this gene (compulsive masturbating is not necessarily sex addiction but it often gets lumped in with substance abuse because much of it has to do with mood regulation--I know everyone hates Dr. Drew these days but he IS an addiction specialist and I learned a lifetime's worth of knowledge listening to Loveline in the early 2000's--find the episode archives if you want to learn more). Save yourself and your loved ones the potential heartbreak and just don't even start down that road.
If you have to use a substance, stick with the pot; I realize it's still 'bad' (and illegal most places) but it seems to destroy a lot fewer lives than alcohol (and no hangovers to boot!)
posted by lovableiago at 12:42 PM on August 24, 2011
If you have to use a substance, stick with the pot; I realize it's still 'bad' (and illegal most places) but it seems to destroy a lot fewer lives than alcohol (and no hangovers to boot!)
posted by lovableiago at 12:42 PM on August 24, 2011
"... Mental health wise, I have general anxiety and intermittent mild depression; plus a pretty bad case of ADHD, which doesn't help with the poor impulse control. ..."
If you think you have impulse control problems now, just wait until you're throwing a few drinks on that fire, regularly. Look, just think of yourself as having an abnormally large, energetic Imp of the Perverse, which presently manifests as a your ADHD, your needs for the chronic, for masturbation, and for more food than is good for you. Do you want to give that Imp super-duper vitamins and put him on steriods and a weight training program, and give him the keys to your life? Fine, start drinking.
No? I thought not, and neither should you.
posted by paulsc at 12:51 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you think you have impulse control problems now, just wait until you're throwing a few drinks on that fire, regularly. Look, just think of yourself as having an abnormally large, energetic Imp of the Perverse, which presently manifests as a your ADHD, your needs for the chronic, for masturbation, and for more food than is good for you. Do you want to give that Imp super-duper vitamins and put him on steriods and a weight training program, and give him the keys to your life? Fine, start drinking.
No? I thought not, and neither should you.
posted by paulsc at 12:51 PM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
With alcoholism, I've come to believe that in most cases, genetics loads the gun, and personality and/or environment pulls the trigger.
Talk to your therapist not only about addiction issues, but about possible undiagnosed and untreated mental health issues. Many, many addicts self-medicate an underlying problem with drugs, alcohol, food, whatever - and clearing up the underlying mental health issue (depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder even) is the only way the addiction issues can be addressed.
I don't drink but I live with my dad who is a recovering alcoholic and I think the greatest deprivation, for me, is not being able to cook with wine! You'd be surprised at how many recipes demand wine! There are so many delicious things I can't make. I'll happily drink mineral water when I go out to a bar but I hate not being able to cook with wine.
Something else to look at is - it is possible you could drink in moderation now, as a young, single student. But I've known "social drinkers" who tipped over the edge into "full-blown alcoholism" when life stressors came their way - a job they hated, a child they found difficult to raise, an unhappy marriage. The social drinking gave way to alcohol as a dysfunctional escape from an unhappy life. With a tendency to addiction in yourself, and alcoholism in the family, you want to consider life stressors as a factor in possibly giving you a shove down the slippery slope
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:52 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Talk to your therapist not only about addiction issues, but about possible undiagnosed and untreated mental health issues. Many, many addicts self-medicate an underlying problem with drugs, alcohol, food, whatever - and clearing up the underlying mental health issue (depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder even) is the only way the addiction issues can be addressed.
I don't drink but I live with my dad who is a recovering alcoholic and I think the greatest deprivation, for me, is not being able to cook with wine! You'd be surprised at how many recipes demand wine! There are so many delicious things I can't make. I'll happily drink mineral water when I go out to a bar but I hate not being able to cook with wine.
Something else to look at is - it is possible you could drink in moderation now, as a young, single student. But I've known "social drinkers" who tipped over the edge into "full-blown alcoholism" when life stressors came their way - a job they hated, a child they found difficult to raise, an unhappy marriage. The social drinking gave way to alcohol as a dysfunctional escape from an unhappy life. With a tendency to addiction in yourself, and alcoholism in the family, you want to consider life stressors as a factor in possibly giving you a shove down the slippery slope
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:52 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Do not use pot. It's like Kryptonite for ADHDers.
You realize that you can't mix ADHD meds and alcohol, right? Not even a little bit? So you'd have to wait until your dosage time was up before you touched any alcohol in the first place.
I suppose in theory, as long as you made a strict rule that you would not have more than two drinks a day, and you knew you were never going to go over that, then what's the problem?
I mean, what's the problem apart from the obesity, depression, addictive tendencies, and family history of alcoholism?
It may be theoretically unlikely that you'll become an alcoholic if you strictly limit the amount of alcohol you drink. But you know what will guarantee you'll never become an alcoholic? Yeah.
I also question why you want to start drinking. Why bother? Life is chock full of problems and stumbling blocks for the average person, let alone us. Why do you want to borrow trouble for yourself? Why not be thankful that there's one problem in life that you can just avoid completely?
posted by tel3path at 12:53 PM on August 24, 2011
You realize that you can't mix ADHD meds and alcohol, right? Not even a little bit? So you'd have to wait until your dosage time was up before you touched any alcohol in the first place.
I suppose in theory, as long as you made a strict rule that you would not have more than two drinks a day, and you knew you were never going to go over that, then what's the problem?
I mean, what's the problem apart from the obesity, depression, addictive tendencies, and family history of alcoholism?
It may be theoretically unlikely that you'll become an alcoholic if you strictly limit the amount of alcohol you drink. But you know what will guarantee you'll never become an alcoholic? Yeah.
I also question why you want to start drinking. Why bother? Life is chock full of problems and stumbling blocks for the average person, let alone us. Why do you want to borrow trouble for yourself? Why not be thankful that there's one problem in life that you can just avoid completely?
posted by tel3path at 12:53 PM on August 24, 2011
I have addictive tendencies, too. I'm not at all anxious, but I do have a tendency to become habitual about things I enjoy (junk food, etc.) There's also a history of alcoholism and depression in my family.
I decided when I was about 12 that I'd never drink, and I never have. I don't know exactly why I decided that, but in getting to know myself better, I'm glad I did.
It is a social handicap, to be sure, and I'm sure there are a lot of experiences I've missed out on. But the risk is simply too great, and I'm thankful that I made the choice when I did.
It's a lot easier not to start than to quit once you realize it's destroying your life.
posted by klanawa at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2011
I decided when I was about 12 that I'd never drink, and I never have. I don't know exactly why I decided that, but in getting to know myself better, I'm glad I did.
It is a social handicap, to be sure, and I'm sure there are a lot of experiences I've missed out on. But the risk is simply too great, and I'm thankful that I made the choice when I did.
It's a lot easier not to start than to quit once you realize it's destroying your life.
posted by klanawa at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2011
You really aren't missing anything. Stick with pot. Far fewer chances to completely ruin your life, IMO.
posted by empath at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by empath at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
(and btw, I say this as someone who loves drinking too much -- I quit drinking last year and I feel like its one of the better decisions I've ever made.. just the amount of money I've saved from not going out to bars is shocking).
posted by empath at 1:01 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by empath at 1:01 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
You have WAY too many risk factors going. Alcohol is not that fun, and I say this as someone who love(s)(d) to drink. It's not worth it -- stay away. You'll have to stop later, from what you've written here, so why not have a beer, gag a little bit (no one likes the first one), and then stop right after that.
posted by sideofwry at 1:06 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by sideofwry at 1:06 PM on August 24, 2011
If you are on any medication for ADHD or depression, you should not drink. YOU SHOULD NOT DRINK AT ALL.
posted by TheBones at 1:07 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by TheBones at 1:07 PM on August 24, 2011
If I had alcoholism in my gene pool, I would make damn sure I never ever touched a drop of alcohol. I'd be afraid I'd like it TOO much, and obviously genetics won't help me moderate that. And your personality sounds like well, behind the IHOP dumpster to boot.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:21 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:21 PM on August 24, 2011
I'd like to start drinking. Should I?
The way you are phrasing this question makes me think the answer is no. If you were asking which craft beer to try first, or which wine you should drink with seafood salad, or who makes the best cocktail in your city I'd tell you to go ahead and enjoy. But it sounds as if you are ready to make a habit out of it without even knowing what it's about. That doesn't bode well.
posted by Wordwoman at 1:27 PM on August 24, 2011
The way you are phrasing this question makes me think the answer is no. If you were asking which craft beer to try first, or which wine you should drink with seafood salad, or who makes the best cocktail in your city I'd tell you to go ahead and enjoy. But it sounds as if you are ready to make a habit out of it without even knowing what it's about. That doesn't bode well.
posted by Wordwoman at 1:27 PM on August 24, 2011
You should probably reread your question - you seem to already have the answer. Picking up new bad habits when the other ones have their hold on you doesn't seem like a particularly good idea.
posted by crankyrogalsky at 1:45 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by crankyrogalsky at 1:45 PM on August 24, 2011
The folk wisdom says that if you drink in moderation from the start, you're pretty much safe from becoming an alcoholic. Is that borne out by research or a clinical consensus? How slippery is the slope?
Very slippery, if you're part of that percent that's like me and after drinking once a week with friends - and never all that much - you find yourself drinking alone at home and craving it every night. That happened after only 6 months of finally letting myself drink in my mid-twenties. It was frightening how fast it sneaked up on me.
I come from a similar background - my entire immediate family is alcoholic or dead because of it - have addictive tendencies and mild depression and anxiety. I've also done lots of research trying to figure out my odds, and whether I could handle drinking in moderation. The research tells me that my risks are high, but my personal responsibility should be able to keep myself in check - especially since I'm so worried about it.
The reality was that if I hadn't caught myself when I did and had a crazy work schedule that sucked up all my free time, I'd probably be well on my way to alcoholism.
I really recommend you rethink whether it's worth the risk. Get your life together first. If you want to demystify alcohol, then learn to cook with it instead.
posted by subject_verb_remainder at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2011
Very slippery, if you're part of that percent that's like me and after drinking once a week with friends - and never all that much - you find yourself drinking alone at home and craving it every night. That happened after only 6 months of finally letting myself drink in my mid-twenties. It was frightening how fast it sneaked up on me.
I come from a similar background - my entire immediate family is alcoholic or dead because of it - have addictive tendencies and mild depression and anxiety. I've also done lots of research trying to figure out my odds, and whether I could handle drinking in moderation. The research tells me that my risks are high, but my personal responsibility should be able to keep myself in check - especially since I'm so worried about it.
The reality was that if I hadn't caught myself when I did and had a crazy work schedule that sucked up all my free time, I'd probably be well on my way to alcoholism.
I really recommend you rethink whether it's worth the risk. Get your life together first. If you want to demystify alcohol, then learn to cook with it instead.
posted by subject_verb_remainder at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2011
1. You have a family history of alcoholism, which doesn't mean you will have that problem (just like not having a family history doesn't mean you won't) but you have in-family experience with how badly drinking can mess things up;
2. You already have other habits that aren't helping you live your life, and you have been unable to address those habits, so why would you want to add another one?
Drinking -- like smoking, like drugs, like race car driving, like skydiving, like tattoos, like...well, like any optional-but-exciting thing you can think of -- is something you can go your whole life not doing and you really won't be missing anything. I drink rarely -- being a grandchild of alcoholics, I've always been cautious -- but after 40 years on this earth, I can't think of a time when I was glad I decided to drink, but I've lost count of the times I wish I hadn't, from a mild "that drink didn't go well with that meal" to "OMG I don't even know where I am any more; how the hell did I even get here?"
So I'm gonna go with "no, you shouldn't start...and if you decide to start, only drink with meals at restaurants when someone else is driving or walking home with you. Don't drink at bars, don't bring alcohol home."
posted by davejay at 2:27 PM on August 24, 2011
2. You already have other habits that aren't helping you live your life, and you have been unable to address those habits, so why would you want to add another one?
Drinking -- like smoking, like drugs, like race car driving, like skydiving, like tattoos, like...well, like any optional-but-exciting thing you can think of -- is something you can go your whole life not doing and you really won't be missing anything. I drink rarely -- being a grandchild of alcoholics, I've always been cautious -- but after 40 years on this earth, I can't think of a time when I was glad I decided to drink, but I've lost count of the times I wish I hadn't, from a mild "that drink didn't go well with that meal" to "OMG I don't even know where I am any more; how the hell did I even get here?"
So I'm gonna go with "no, you shouldn't start...and if you decide to start, only drink with meals at restaurants when someone else is driving or walking home with you. Don't drink at bars, don't bring alcohol home."
posted by davejay at 2:27 PM on August 24, 2011
Incidentally, fear of your family history will go a long way into tricking you into alcoholism, because you'll be focused on "am I becoming an alcoholic" instead of "am I drinking too much."
This is because, every day you haven't become an alcoholic, you can honestly say "I'm not an alcoholic" and keep drinking...and the first day you become an alcoholic, you'll genuinely still believe that you are not one, and you will keep drinking. It's a losing game, that one.
Let me be more specific with my previous answer: if you must drink, drink *one* glass of wine at meals in restaurants (when you have a ride home or a walking-home buddy) and start by letting your waiter recommend the wine. Over time you'll learn a lot, and you'll appreciate it for the taste rather than for the getting-drunk qualities. Much healthier in general.
posted by davejay at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is because, every day you haven't become an alcoholic, you can honestly say "I'm not an alcoholic" and keep drinking...and the first day you become an alcoholic, you'll genuinely still believe that you are not one, and you will keep drinking. It's a losing game, that one.
Let me be more specific with my previous answer: if you must drink, drink *one* glass of wine at meals in restaurants (when you have a ride home or a walking-home buddy) and start by letting your waiter recommend the wine. Over time you'll learn a lot, and you'll appreciate it for the taste rather than for the getting-drunk qualities. Much healthier in general.
posted by davejay at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
and here's your red flag: are you drinking alcohol that doesn't taste good? you wouldn't do that with food or other drinks, so you shouldn't do it with alcohol.
posted by davejay at 2:31 PM on August 24, 2011
posted by davejay at 2:31 PM on August 24, 2011
WHY do you think you should start drinking alcohol? There's no "all adults drink" requirement; and as you say you know you have an addictive personality/genetic predisposition to alcoholism, and already expect that drinking alcohol will end badly for you.
So why? 'Because everyone else does' is NOT a valid reason.
signed, a lifelong teetotaler (with an addictive personality & genetic predisposition of my own)
posted by easily confused at 4:59 PM on August 24, 2011
So why? 'Because everyone else does' is NOT a valid reason.
signed, a lifelong teetotaler (with an addictive personality & genetic predisposition of my own)
posted by easily confused at 4:59 PM on August 24, 2011
The alcoholic's rule: Drink things that taste good, and no more than 3-4 in an evening (2 if you're driving). If you can't stick to this, give it up entirely.
I'm not an addictive person like you, for the most part. But I LOVE alcohol, and am certainly an alcoholic in that I come from long lines of alcoholics, and will black out and be an ass if I drink too much. So I don't (even though sometimes I really, really want to).
Life is too short to not enjoy a good dark beer with your steak, or a good scotch with your cigar, or even a Dos Equis with your burrito.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have a nice red wine -- alone! -- before I go to bed.
posted by coolguymichael at 8:42 PM on August 24, 2011
I'm not an addictive person like you, for the most part. But I LOVE alcohol, and am certainly an alcoholic in that I come from long lines of alcoholics, and will black out and be an ass if I drink too much. So I don't (even though sometimes I really, really want to).
Life is too short to not enjoy a good dark beer with your steak, or a good scotch with your cigar, or even a Dos Equis with your burrito.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have a nice red wine -- alone! -- before I go to bed.
posted by coolguymichael at 8:42 PM on August 24, 2011
I'm obese, I smoke more pot than I'd like (about three times a week), and I even masturbate more often than I probably should (more than once a day).
Jesus, son, eating, toking and jacking it ain't enough fun for you?
The folk wisdom says that if you drink in moderation from the start, you're pretty much safe from becoming an alcoholic.
Son, I come from a long line of avowed and clinically-diagnosed drunks and I'm going to tell you two things. One, the folk wisdom does not say this. Two, this is exactly the kind of thing drunks say. Your entire question sounds like the kind of thing drunks say, when they hope they can get off on the charges of being a drunk on a technicality.
I've got alcoholics sprouting from my family tree like wisteria on a church lady's garden arbor. My maternal grandmother got blasted well into her 60s when she tried to have back surgery and got DTs in the pre-op suite. My father slugged Nyquil straight from the bottle every night for like four years when I was a kid. My paternal grandfather has not, in anyone's living memory, gone a day without a Manhattan. I could tell you more stories. I don't drink and I have literally never thought as much about drinking, in my entire life, as you are apparently thinking about it now. That doesn't bode well for you.
Leave this particular time bomb where it lie.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:01 PM on August 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
Jesus, son, eating, toking and jacking it ain't enough fun for you?
The folk wisdom says that if you drink in moderation from the start, you're pretty much safe from becoming an alcoholic.
Son, I come from a long line of avowed and clinically-diagnosed drunks and I'm going to tell you two things. One, the folk wisdom does not say this. Two, this is exactly the kind of thing drunks say. Your entire question sounds like the kind of thing drunks say, when they hope they can get off on the charges of being a drunk on a technicality.
I've got alcoholics sprouting from my family tree like wisteria on a church lady's garden arbor. My maternal grandmother got blasted well into her 60s when she tried to have back surgery and got DTs in the pre-op suite. My father slugged Nyquil straight from the bottle every night for like four years when I was a kid. My paternal grandfather has not, in anyone's living memory, gone a day without a Manhattan. I could tell you more stories. I don't drink and I have literally never thought as much about drinking, in my entire life, as you are apparently thinking about it now. That doesn't bode well for you.
Leave this particular time bomb where it lie.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:01 PM on August 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I don't actually see any problem with the idea of your drinking in moderation. I should state at the start of this that I'm from the UK, where we have, ahem, different attitudes towards drinking. But I'm also someone who has chosen to drink only very, very occasionally (a handful of times a year) myself. I made this decision after drinking a handful of times at university and coming to the conclusion that it wasn't for me. Sometimes I have a bit of wine with food or a really fun cocktail, but otherwise it's no dice. I have no interest in talking someone into drinking. But I think you are overreacting to the stuff you have described.
For starters, your mother is not 'mildly dependent' on alcohol, unless you've missed a lot of information out. Someone who drinks a couple of glasses of wine a month against doctor's orders is what we in the UK call 'a normal person'. Addicts drink regularly and in problematic ways, not occasionally in an 'Ooh, I'm naughty' spirit. Pace The Onion, it's not actually like being 'a chocoholic, but for booze'.
The idea that your, from the sounds of it, mild-to-moderate psychiatric disorders should disqualify you from drinking is ridiculous. The problems you are describing are extremely common and do not usually cause problem drinking. The fact that you are going into this in a self-aware way will act in your favour here, not against it.
I think to be honest that you need to ease up on yourself a lot about your other 'indulgences'. Masturbation is not something you should ever feel guilty about unless it is actually preventing you from doing other things, like your job or socialising. It's harmless and free. So what if you do it more than once a day? I'm sorry that you're obese, but again this is incredibly common. And the pot smoking might be 'a bit more than you'd like', but it doesn't sound like it's dramatically so, and you'll probably cut it down over the next decade of your life just like anybody else.
If there's anything that concerns me and strikes me as likely to contribute to your developing alcoholism, it's this worrying tendency, which the comments here are only reinforcing, to think of Addiction as a binary state, something that comes and hits you on the head and never leaves. The person who said you 'already sounded like a drunk'? That person made me wish, as I occasionally do, that there were an anti-favourite button. There is no such thing as 'being a drunk' as a personality trait. Alcoholism is a very bad thing that happens to some people when they drink too much and in problematic ways. It is not something that happens to people who have never drunk in their lives. It's problematic when people who are alcoholics convince themselves that their drinking is normal, but it is not problematic when people who are normal drinkers convince themselves that their drinking is normal. It is especially unproblematic when people who have never drunk convince themselves that it is possible for them to drink moderately and not become alcoholics. And between normal drinkers and alcoholics, there is a whole grey area of problem drinkers who are going a bit wrong but very much still able to sort things out, and it is not helpful at all for these people to think of themselves as irredeemable drunks. If you think of it as being like a switch that just gets switched on, you will never feel in control of your drinking. But if you are not already dependent on alcohol, it is completely within your power to remain in control of your drinking.
There are, as some people gestured at above, good rules of thumb to keep in mind so that you can tell when you are starting to get into the problem-drinking, grey-area zone. They aren't necessarily signs that you should stop, just that you're doing drinking wrong and that you need to stop drinking in the ways you are. A really rough list of things to look out for:
-You drink alone or when nobody else is drinking.
-You drink when you're upset because it makes you feel better. (A lot of people do this - that's why there are all the jokes about it. It doesn't make you an alcoholic, but it is a good thing to look out for if you are worried about being an alcoholic.)
-As mentioned above, you drink things that taste nasty just to get drunk. (Most British teenagers do this on a regular basis, that's why alcopops were invented. I wouldn't say it's Horrifically Dangerous, just a bit stupid, and something that at your age there shouldn't be any need for)
-Drinking gets in the way of any other stuff that you enjoy
-Drinking makes you feel guilty or ashamed (coupled with the second one is when things get really bad. Those two in combination is where I would say you should definitely give up drinking altogether.)
posted by Acheman at 5:00 AM on August 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
For starters, your mother is not 'mildly dependent' on alcohol, unless you've missed a lot of information out. Someone who drinks a couple of glasses of wine a month against doctor's orders is what we in the UK call 'a normal person'. Addicts drink regularly and in problematic ways, not occasionally in an 'Ooh, I'm naughty' spirit. Pace The Onion, it's not actually like being 'a chocoholic, but for booze'.
The idea that your, from the sounds of it, mild-to-moderate psychiatric disorders should disqualify you from drinking is ridiculous. The problems you are describing are extremely common and do not usually cause problem drinking. The fact that you are going into this in a self-aware way will act in your favour here, not against it.
I think to be honest that you need to ease up on yourself a lot about your other 'indulgences'. Masturbation is not something you should ever feel guilty about unless it is actually preventing you from doing other things, like your job or socialising. It's harmless and free. So what if you do it more than once a day? I'm sorry that you're obese, but again this is incredibly common. And the pot smoking might be 'a bit more than you'd like', but it doesn't sound like it's dramatically so, and you'll probably cut it down over the next decade of your life just like anybody else.
If there's anything that concerns me and strikes me as likely to contribute to your developing alcoholism, it's this worrying tendency, which the comments here are only reinforcing, to think of Addiction as a binary state, something that comes and hits you on the head and never leaves. The person who said you 'already sounded like a drunk'? That person made me wish, as I occasionally do, that there were an anti-favourite button. There is no such thing as 'being a drunk' as a personality trait. Alcoholism is a very bad thing that happens to some people when they drink too much and in problematic ways. It is not something that happens to people who have never drunk in their lives. It's problematic when people who are alcoholics convince themselves that their drinking is normal, but it is not problematic when people who are normal drinkers convince themselves that their drinking is normal. It is especially unproblematic when people who have never drunk convince themselves that it is possible for them to drink moderately and not become alcoholics. And between normal drinkers and alcoholics, there is a whole grey area of problem drinkers who are going a bit wrong but very much still able to sort things out, and it is not helpful at all for these people to think of themselves as irredeemable drunks. If you think of it as being like a switch that just gets switched on, you will never feel in control of your drinking. But if you are not already dependent on alcohol, it is completely within your power to remain in control of your drinking.
There are, as some people gestured at above, good rules of thumb to keep in mind so that you can tell when you are starting to get into the problem-drinking, grey-area zone. They aren't necessarily signs that you should stop, just that you're doing drinking wrong and that you need to stop drinking in the ways you are. A really rough list of things to look out for:
-You drink alone or when nobody else is drinking.
-You drink when you're upset because it makes you feel better. (A lot of people do this - that's why there are all the jokes about it. It doesn't make you an alcoholic, but it is a good thing to look out for if you are worried about being an alcoholic.)
-As mentioned above, you drink things that taste nasty just to get drunk. (Most British teenagers do this on a regular basis, that's why alcopops were invented. I wouldn't say it's Horrifically Dangerous, just a bit stupid, and something that at your age there shouldn't be any need for)
-Drinking gets in the way of any other stuff that you enjoy
-Drinking makes you feel guilty or ashamed (coupled with the second one is when things get really bad. Those two in combination is where I would say you should definitely give up drinking altogether.)
posted by Acheman at 5:00 AM on August 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
if you drink in moderation from the start, you're pretty much safe from becoming an alcoholic
As a fifty-two-year-old man who has been drinking happily and in abundance since the age of seventeen, let me assure you this is utter nonsense. What determines whether you will become an alcoholic has nothing to do with how much you drink. It has to do with your emotional and physical response to alcohol and to its intoxicating effects.
You say you are an addictive personality, to the point whereby it has become a problem for you in other areas. I am a drinker, as I have mentioned, and a very happy, healthy one. And I say BEWARE. Probably best not to even go there. Really. Alcohol is powerful stuff. It can bring huge joy to a life, and it can fuck a life right up. Sounds like you're far more likely to risk the second option than the first.
Or roll the loaded dice and take the chance. I'm not one of those people who will lie to you and say that alcohol can't be massive fun and a source of wild, heady joy. Just be ready for snake eyes.
posted by Decani at 12:44 PM on August 25, 2011
As a fifty-two-year-old man who has been drinking happily and in abundance since the age of seventeen, let me assure you this is utter nonsense. What determines whether you will become an alcoholic has nothing to do with how much you drink. It has to do with your emotional and physical response to alcohol and to its intoxicating effects.
You say you are an addictive personality, to the point whereby it has become a problem for you in other areas. I am a drinker, as I have mentioned, and a very happy, healthy one. And I say BEWARE. Probably best not to even go there. Really. Alcohol is powerful stuff. It can bring huge joy to a life, and it can fuck a life right up. Sounds like you're far more likely to risk the second option than the first.
Or roll the loaded dice and take the chance. I'm not one of those people who will lie to you and say that alcohol can't be massive fun and a source of wild, heady joy. Just be ready for snake eyes.
posted by Decani at 12:44 PM on August 25, 2011
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I work at a bar, I see true killing themselves alcoholics, I also see alcoholics who are in recovery, just having Diet Coke. Its a kind of torture. If you think you may slide into this, I'm not sure why you'd want to start.
I hadn't had a drink at your age, when I started drinking I probably drank to excess fairly often. Its just plain not good for you. I probably have 2-3 drinks a week now, which doesn't impact my life. It doesn't impact my life to the point where I'm thinking of giving it up. I've lost 55 lbs over the last year or two and now I see those drinks as 300 extra calories a week. That's like ten lbs a year in the long run.
Man, this sounds like a downer, plenty of people drink and do fine with it, but it just doesn't sound like you are going to be one of those people.
posted by stormygrey at 11:52 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]