Pre-engagement wondering madness
August 16, 2011 5:05 PM Subscribe
How can I stop wondering whether my boyfriend will propose during our romantic getaway?
So my boyfriend and I (female) have been together for about 5 years now. I'm in my mid-twenties, he is in his early thirties.
We have planned a big, romantic getaway for the end of the year, and I have a hunch that he might propose to me during this trip. We have talked about marriage numerous times before, and I know it's what we both want. He told me about a year ago that he is just waiting for the right time. If he popped the question, I would undoubtedly say yes.
But... we live in a country which is foreign to both of us, not where we want to be when we tie the knot, and we plan to stay here for at least a couple more years. And we always talked about marriage not being necessary until we're ready to have kids... while I may be ready for marriage, kids still feel like a long way away, and I know he is not ready for that either.
Bearing that in mind, he may decide that this big trip is not the right time to propose. And I'm honestly fine with that. I know it will happen at some point in the not too distant future, and I want him to feel as ready as I do.
But I feel like this wondering will ruin the damn holiday! I don't want to be thinking "Is this it... is this the moment?" at every beautiful spot or candlelit dinner. Ugh. I would rather just forget the whole thing and be pleasantly surprised, rather than constantly disappointed. But the more I worry about this, the harder the thought is to let go of.
What can I do or tell myself to help me forget about this whole proposal thing? Is there some way I could talk to him about this that would help, without having to ask him what his plans are directly and definitely without having to drop hints or play games? FYI, neither I nor he want me to be the one to propose to him, so I won't be going down that road.
Any advice, or similar experiences? Thanks so much in advance.
So my boyfriend and I (female) have been together for about 5 years now. I'm in my mid-twenties, he is in his early thirties.
We have planned a big, romantic getaway for the end of the year, and I have a hunch that he might propose to me during this trip. We have talked about marriage numerous times before, and I know it's what we both want. He told me about a year ago that he is just waiting for the right time. If he popped the question, I would undoubtedly say yes.
But... we live in a country which is foreign to both of us, not where we want to be when we tie the knot, and we plan to stay here for at least a couple more years. And we always talked about marriage not being necessary until we're ready to have kids... while I may be ready for marriage, kids still feel like a long way away, and I know he is not ready for that either.
Bearing that in mind, he may decide that this big trip is not the right time to propose. And I'm honestly fine with that. I know it will happen at some point in the not too distant future, and I want him to feel as ready as I do.
But I feel like this wondering will ruin the damn holiday! I don't want to be thinking "Is this it... is this the moment?" at every beautiful spot or candlelit dinner. Ugh. I would rather just forget the whole thing and be pleasantly surprised, rather than constantly disappointed. But the more I worry about this, the harder the thought is to let go of.
What can I do or tell myself to help me forget about this whole proposal thing? Is there some way I could talk to him about this that would help, without having to ask him what his plans are directly and definitely without having to drop hints or play games? FYI, neither I nor he want me to be the one to propose to him, so I won't be going down that road.
Any advice, or similar experiences? Thanks so much in advance.
Here's this question from his perspective:
http://ask.metafilter.com/190746/Where-in-the-Pacific-Northwest-should-I-ask-her-to-marry-me
Maybe you could leave that thread open on his computer or something?
posted by carsonb at 5:27 PM on August 16, 2011
http://ask.metafilter.com/190746/Where-in-the-Pacific-Northwest-should-I-ask-her-to-marry-me
Maybe you could leave that thread open on his computer or something?
posted by carsonb at 5:27 PM on August 16, 2011
Ask him to marry you.
posted by joannemullen at 5:28 PM on August 16, 2011 [19 favorites]
posted by joannemullen at 5:28 PM on August 16, 2011 [19 favorites]
FYI, neither I nor he want me to be the one to propose to him, so I won't be going down that road.
posted by box at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by box at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2011 [5 favorites]
Every time you start to fantasize "maybe he'll propose" tell yourself again all the reasons you told us as to why it's not likely to happen on this trip, only get rid of the "not likely to" and replace it with "definitely won't". Keep telling yourself this until you believe it. Convince yourself that you know how his mind works, that he's probably thinking he's got plenty of time to propose, that he can't afford a ring right now (if that's probably true), etc. etc. Make a mental list of every "con" you can think of, as to why this is not an ideal time for him to propose.
You can probably get pretty close to convincing yourself he's not going to do it. Then while you're on the trip, any time the thought creeps in that maybe he's going to... remind yourself of your mental "cons" list, then tell yourself "No!" firmly to stop the thought process. Refocus your mind on the moment that you are actually living... how great the food is, what beautiful scenery, what a great time you're having and how much you love being together.
Don't let yourself expect it, and you won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen. Any expectation you have for when or how the proposal will go down is setting yourself up for disappointment. Just let it happen when it happens and you'll be surprised and thrilled.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
You can probably get pretty close to convincing yourself he's not going to do it. Then while you're on the trip, any time the thought creeps in that maybe he's going to... remind yourself of your mental "cons" list, then tell yourself "No!" firmly to stop the thought process. Refocus your mind on the moment that you are actually living... how great the food is, what beautiful scenery, what a great time you're having and how much you love being together.
Don't let yourself expect it, and you won't be disappointed when it doesn't happen. Any expectation you have for when or how the proposal will go down is setting yourself up for disappointment. Just let it happen when it happens and you'll be surprised and thrilled.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:33 PM on August 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
I just wrote a longer answer saying something slightly different*, but on preview, what joannemullen said.
*Which was: If you really need to know, ask him, if not directly about the holiday, at least about how he feels about you getting engaged or married during the two years of your foreign sojourn, or during the next year, or few months, or whatever.
posted by penguin pie at 5:34 PM on August 16, 2011
*Which was: If you really need to know, ask him, if not directly about the holiday, at least about how he feels about you getting engaged or married during the two years of your foreign sojourn, or during the next year, or few months, or whatever.
posted by penguin pie at 5:34 PM on August 16, 2011
Huh. OK, on re-preview, take my second answer.
posted by penguin pie at 5:34 PM on August 16, 2011
posted by penguin pie at 5:34 PM on August 16, 2011
Talk to him. Tell him you're getting all wound up wondering if he'll propose during the trip, when will he do it, etc., and would he please just tell you he's not going to propose to you during the trip, because you'd like to just forget about all of that and focus on enjoying the trip, the two of you together.
doesn't mean he has to keep his promise
posted by lizbunny at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
doesn't mean he has to keep his promise
posted by lizbunny at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
And I'm honestly fine with that.
Are you fine with it not happening? Because if you're not fine with that, you'd better be ready to pull that trigger yourself.
posted by mhoye at 5:38 PM on August 16, 2011
Are you fine with it not happening? Because if you're not fine with that, you'd better be ready to pull that trigger yourself.
posted by mhoye at 5:38 PM on August 16, 2011
If you are dead set on maintaining the tradition of a "surprise" proposal, then there is really no way to avoid the problem you are facing (that is, not knowing when he will propose.) Why not just accept that you are actually already engaged, and just start thinking about when to have the wedding?
posted by yarly at 5:44 PM on August 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by yarly at 5:44 PM on August 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
Get over it, and get over it fast. Very good friend of mine was in your exact same situation. She couldn't let the idea out of her mind. Vacation came, he didn't propose, and it was so much for her she broke up with him soon after.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:48 PM on August 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:48 PM on August 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh my goodness! Did I post in my sleep? My boyfriend has organised an uncharacteristically (all the more adorable for its out-of-characterness) romantic getaway for my birthday this weekend. We too have discussed marriage and agree it’s both what we want and he’s waiting for the right time to do the Official Ask, after a small trial ask to which I said YES.
Anyway! I’m freakin’ dying for him to Officially Ask (which he knows). So for the past week, my head has been all “Ooo, is he going to ask? I wonder if he’s going to ask? Maybe he’ll ask! If he asks I'll be all 'YES OF COURSE I'LL MARRY YOU CRAZY FOOL DON'T EVER LEAVE ME I LOVE YOU!'.''
And I will indeed be a bit disappointed if he doesn’t ask this weekend.
But here's the thing. One, I'm a grown up, and I can deal with disappointment. It'll happen eventually. Two, I love him, he's my sweetie, we will be together always and forever, and I want him to have the space to ask in his own time/way. His happiness at asking is as important to me as my future happiness about being asked. Three, I’ve set myself a deadline six months in the future to talk with him if he hasn’t asked by then. And four, I'm actively reminding myself that all romantic proposal-appropriate experiences that do not result in a proposal will deepen and sweeten our love, making the eventual proposal all the more wonderful.
I am so in love, I think I just made myself a little bit sick. Sorry if this is all a bit schmoopy.
posted by t0astie at 5:56 PM on August 16, 2011 [23 favorites]
Anyway! I’m freakin’ dying for him to Officially Ask (which he knows). So for the past week, my head has been all “Ooo, is he going to ask? I wonder if he’s going to ask? Maybe he’ll ask! If he asks I'll be all 'YES OF COURSE I'LL MARRY YOU CRAZY FOOL DON'T EVER LEAVE ME I LOVE YOU!'.''
And I will indeed be a bit disappointed if he doesn’t ask this weekend.
But here's the thing. One, I'm a grown up, and I can deal with disappointment. It'll happen eventually. Two, I love him, he's my sweetie, we will be together always and forever, and I want him to have the space to ask in his own time/way. His happiness at asking is as important to me as my future happiness about being asked. Three, I’ve set myself a deadline six months in the future to talk with him if he hasn’t asked by then. And four, I'm actively reminding myself that all romantic proposal-appropriate experiences that do not result in a proposal will deepen and sweeten our love, making the eventual proposal all the more wonderful.
I am so in love, I think I just made myself a little bit sick. Sorry if this is all a bit schmoopy.
posted by t0astie at 5:56 PM on August 16, 2011 [23 favorites]
Just go and have fun on the trip. Enjoy yourself. Like you already said, don't let this ruin your romantic getaway. And if you are seriously fine with him not proposing then just relax. If you can't just forget about it, do what Serene Empress Dork said. Get it into your mind that it won't happen, so that you don't expect anything from him other than to spend great quality time together.
posted by accisse at 5:58 PM on August 16, 2011
posted by accisse at 5:58 PM on August 16, 2011
You've already discussed marriage and the proposal. Why can't you just tell him that you wouldn't want to get engaged while you're still living in that country?
posted by John Cohen at 6:02 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by John Cohen at 6:02 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Find or make reasons this trip will stand out in your memory, whether he proposes or not. Focus on finding other endings for the sentence, "That was the trip when we _____" other than "got engaged."
posted by jessicapierce at 6:25 PM on August 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by jessicapierce at 6:25 PM on August 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm with the "well, you propose to HIM then" people. Hell, plan the trip around it if you want-- wait for a good romantic moment and propose to him then. If he was planning on doing it then, it'll be a funny story, if not, then you're badass and bold. Win-win.
posted by NoraReed at 7:11 PM on August 16, 2011
posted by NoraReed at 7:11 PM on August 16, 2011
I wouldn't worry too much about it (you either, t0astie). A surprise or sudden or romantic getaway is pretty much a slam dunk.
I also agree that you should consider doing the proposal yourself, especially if worrying/wondering about it starts to consume your days. I'm not saying that you should necessarily propose to him, especially given that both you and he are taken with the idea of a surprise proposal from him, just that it's worth considering. For what it's worth, I have no regrets about proposing (I was ridiculously terrible at being "pre-engaged"), even though I could have had the romantic "surprise" proposal if I had just waited 1 (one!) more day; on the contrary, I felt strong and loved and worthy. If you really, really, really want a surprise proposal from him, then there's nothing you can do and you'll just have to wait and distract yourself and try to grab each beautiful moment for what it's worth and not for the proposal that it could have been. And if that ends up being too much for you to handle, then maybe that will prove to yourself that what you want more is to be engaged to him (and the proposal pales in insignificance against the happiness you'll find in marriage).
posted by heyheylanagirl at 8:04 PM on August 16, 2011
I also agree that you should consider doing the proposal yourself, especially if worrying/wondering about it starts to consume your days. I'm not saying that you should necessarily propose to him, especially given that both you and he are taken with the idea of a surprise proposal from him, just that it's worth considering. For what it's worth, I have no regrets about proposing (I was ridiculously terrible at being "pre-engaged"), even though I could have had the romantic "surprise" proposal if I had just waited 1 (one!) more day; on the contrary, I felt strong and loved and worthy. If you really, really, really want a surprise proposal from him, then there's nothing you can do and you'll just have to wait and distract yourself and try to grab each beautiful moment for what it's worth and not for the proposal that it could have been. And if that ends up being too much for you to handle, then maybe that will prove to yourself that what you want more is to be engaged to him (and the proposal pales in insignificance against the happiness you'll find in marriage).
posted by heyheylanagirl at 8:04 PM on August 16, 2011
Have a friend convey your desires. Tell a friend of yours or his to sort of find out and if you don't want it then, to tell him or if you do, to hint this might be a good time.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:06 PM on August 16, 2011
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:06 PM on August 16, 2011
Try looking at it this way. The two of you have already talked about marriage, your plans to have kids, and came to a mutual decision to spend the rest of your lives together. In that context, you're already engaged. Your plans have been made, and the only thing you're waiting for is the symbol that will formalize it.
Think of the proposal like any other present you might receive. You can anticipate it and be excited about the prospect of receiving a gift without setting up all these expectations around it. It's not disappointing or vacation-ruining when surprises don't arrive on your time table. Enjoy the romantic getaway as a present in itself, and have a blast!
There's also not a damn thing wrong with having a frank conversation - you bringing it up doesn't make you the one proposing. Marriage is a joint venture, don't be coy or drop hints if you need to discuss further what 'the right time' means to both of you.
posted by Space Kitty at 8:17 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Think of the proposal like any other present you might receive. You can anticipate it and be excited about the prospect of receiving a gift without setting up all these expectations around it. It's not disappointing or vacation-ruining when surprises don't arrive on your time table. Enjoy the romantic getaway as a present in itself, and have a blast!
There's also not a damn thing wrong with having a frank conversation - you bringing it up doesn't make you the one proposing. Marriage is a joint venture, don't be coy or drop hints if you need to discuss further what 'the right time' means to both of you.
posted by Space Kitty at 8:17 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
My advice is to let go of expectations when it comes to other people, just in general. You can appreciate the present for what it is--a wonderful gift of time that you have to spend together with the person you love the very most and both of you want to get married to each other at some point even if it is not right this second!!--or you can let yourself screw it all up with expectations about what should come next and when. If life is not for enjoying and appreciating, then I don't know what it's for.
posted by so_gracefully at 8:47 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by so_gracefully at 8:47 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would focus on how much fun the trip will be. Get yourself excited about all the cool stuff you'll be doing. Bring a camera.
A friend of mine just had his long-time girlfriend break up with him, horribly and viciously, because he took her on a wonderful vacation and didn't propose like her friends all thought he would. Yikes! What a mess it was. Not only that, but then they were stuck in this distant location together.
So focus on the trip as a terrific thing, a chance to build memories together while you're still boyfriend and girlfriend. :)
posted by wintersweet at 8:54 PM on August 16, 2011
A friend of mine just had his long-time girlfriend break up with him, horribly and viciously, because he took her on a wonderful vacation and didn't propose like her friends all thought he would. Yikes! What a mess it was. Not only that, but then they were stuck in this distant location together.
So focus on the trip as a terrific thing, a chance to build memories together while you're still boyfriend and girlfriend. :)
posted by wintersweet at 8:54 PM on August 16, 2011
We have talked about marriage numerous times before, and I know it's what we both want.
So, really, you've already proposed to each other, and have both said yes. Or, what yarly and Space Kitty already said.
The "proposal" is just a formality. Maybe you should ask yourself why you place so much importance on it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:03 PM on August 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
So, really, you've already proposed to each other, and have both said yes. Or, what yarly and Space Kitty already said.
The "proposal" is just a formality. Maybe you should ask yourself why you place so much importance on it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:03 PM on August 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't want to be thinking "Is this it... is this the moment?" at every beautiful spot or candlelit dinner. Ugh.
Sure, getting proposed to is a huge, life changing experience. You're still making too much of it. It'll be fantastic, and you'll tell your friends/relatives all about it. You're not gonna say: "Well, he proposed to me at the creek, but I secretly wish that he'd have proposed to me under the big tree."
Places are just places, the important part is you two. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
posted by Sphinx at 9:25 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sure, getting proposed to is a huge, life changing experience. You're still making too much of it. It'll be fantastic, and you'll tell your friends/relatives all about it. You're not gonna say: "Well, he proposed to me at the creek, but I secretly wish that he'd have proposed to me under the big tree."
Places are just places, the important part is you two. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
posted by Sphinx at 9:25 PM on August 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you're gonna be married, then you're gonna have to communicate effectively. Just tell him that you're looking forward to the trip for trip's sake, and you're looking forward to him proposing to you someday, but that you don't want those two things to happen at the same time, because thinking about him proposing to you on the trip is distracting you from the pleasure of the trip.
posted by davejay at 10:01 PM on August 16, 2011
posted by davejay at 10:01 PM on August 16, 2011
and yeah, you're putting WAY too much importance on the proposal. hell, on the wedding. if you focus so much on those things, you'll miss the fact that this trip is the kind of thing you and he will be doing together for the rest of your lives. I mean, marriage/engagement or not, the rest of your life is already underway.
posted by davejay at 10:03 PM on August 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by davejay at 10:03 PM on August 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
Is there some way I could talk to him about this that would help, without having to ask him what his plans are directly and definitely without having to drop hints or play games?
Tell him that you're anxious about the issue. Just like you told us. I'm sure he doesn't want you stressing about this, and if he's stressing about it, you'd both be better off discussing the source of the stress.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:10 AM on August 17, 2011
Tell him that you're anxious about the issue. Just like you told us. I'm sure he doesn't want you stressing about this, and if he's stressing about it, you'd both be better off discussing the source of the stress.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:10 AM on August 17, 2011
FWIW I think the real issue is that despite what you say, you are going to be disappointed if he doesn't propose. Asking him if he is planning to isn't oing to help, because if he says no, you're not going to buy that anyway -- I mean, who says "yes" to that question?
So, frankly, I would just assume it won't happen and pre-process the disappointment as best you can. It's OK to admit you will sad if it doesn't happen to and to really look at those feelings instead of trying to shove them away because you think they are inappropriate. "That part is going to be a bummer but I know it will happen evenetually; right now, we get this great holiday to focus on instead and enjoy time with each other."
posted by DarlingBri at 3:09 AM on August 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
So, frankly, I would just assume it won't happen and pre-process the disappointment as best you can. It's OK to admit you will sad if it doesn't happen to and to really look at those feelings instead of trying to shove them away because you think they are inappropriate. "That part is going to be a bummer but I know it will happen evenetually; right now, we get this great holiday to focus on instead and enjoy time with each other."
posted by DarlingBri at 3:09 AM on August 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
A few things:
we live in a country which is foreign to both of us, not where we want to be when we tie the knot, and we plan to stay here for at least a couple more years.
There's nothing wrong with having a very long engagement, spanning several years. You don't have to start planning the wedding right away.
I would rather just forget the whole thing and be pleasantly surprised
Then do that. Assume it's not going to happen, enjoy that you're together, enjoy your vacation together, and if it happens then it's a bonus.
I can tell you from the guy's side that pressure to propose, even if he does want to marry you, will make him put it off even longer because he doesn't want to be pressured. That's counterintuitive, I know, but it's more from a sense of "I want to marry a woman who isn't going to pressure me to get married."
and, finally:
Ask him to marry you.
That will take the pressure off of him (if it IS what he wants), and it will take the anxious anticipation off of you.
posted by tckma at 6:07 AM on August 17, 2011
we live in a country which is foreign to both of us, not where we want to be when we tie the knot, and we plan to stay here for at least a couple more years.
There's nothing wrong with having a very long engagement, spanning several years. You don't have to start planning the wedding right away.
I would rather just forget the whole thing and be pleasantly surprised
Then do that. Assume it's not going to happen, enjoy that you're together, enjoy your vacation together, and if it happens then it's a bonus.
I can tell you from the guy's side that pressure to propose, even if he does want to marry you, will make him put it off even longer because he doesn't want to be pressured. That's counterintuitive, I know, but it's more from a sense of "I want to marry a woman who isn't going to pressure me to get married."
and, finally:
Ask him to marry you.
That will take the pressure off of him (if it IS what he wants), and it will take the anxious anticipation off of you.
posted by tckma at 6:07 AM on August 17, 2011
As others have pointed out, you seem to have disconnected the concept of a "proposal" and "getting engaged." I'm not criticizing that; I'm just trying to clarify that this is, in fact, what you've done. If "getting engaged" means two people mutually, explicitly, decisively agreeing that they are going to get married at some point in the future, you're already engaged. Congratulations!
Why, then, does it matter whether the "proposal" happens on this trip? Since you're anonymous and can't answer that in this thread, I'll suggest an answer: the timing of the "proposal" only matters if it creates a deadline for when you must get married, e.g. within 1 year of the "proposal."
If there is no such time limit, then there's no need to worry about whether the "proposal" happens on the trip. Enjoy the proposal, and get married whenever you want.
If there is such a time limit, then I would repeat the advise from my earlier comment: you can easily solve the problem by saying one simple sentence to him. "I wouldn't want to get married/engaged until we move to [the country you want to get married in]."
posted by John Cohen at 9:44 AM on August 17, 2011
Why, then, does it matter whether the "proposal" happens on this trip? Since you're anonymous and can't answer that in this thread, I'll suggest an answer: the timing of the "proposal" only matters if it creates a deadline for when you must get married, e.g. within 1 year of the "proposal."
If there is no such time limit, then there's no need to worry about whether the "proposal" happens on the trip. Enjoy the proposal, and get married whenever you want.
If there is such a time limit, then I would repeat the advise from my earlier comment: you can easily solve the problem by saying one simple sentence to him. "I wouldn't want to get married/engaged until we move to [the country you want to get married in]."
posted by John Cohen at 9:44 AM on August 17, 2011
FWIW, my first husband made a very romantic proposal to me in a bewitching foreign city. Unfortunately, he was a bit obsessive and wrote it down in his agenda, and, equally unfortunately, I had the same need to know as you, and looked. (His calendar was not particularly secret so this was not as enormous a transgression as it may sound.) So I wound up knowing which day he would propose to me. It was still lovely, but boy, do I wish I'd never known. It made the whole thing feel staged.
As to how to stop wondering about it so it doesn't ruin your trip... There is really only one way to stop, which is: stop. Bob Newhart has some wonderful advice about it.
posted by Paris Elk at 11:46 AM on August 17, 2011
As to how to stop wondering about it so it doesn't ruin your trip... There is really only one way to stop, which is: stop. Bob Newhart has some wonderful advice about it.
posted by Paris Elk at 11:46 AM on August 17, 2011
Ask him directly what his intentions are for your future. Anything less falls into the realm of "playing games", which you express a distaste for.
posted by reenum at 3:01 PM on August 17, 2011
posted by reenum at 3:01 PM on August 17, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
If this is really true, I would just remind yourself that there will be a lot of beautiful moments and beautiful places in your future. If he doesn't pick one, he'll pick another.
Is it a happy anticipation and excitement that you are feeling, or more like a dread that you won't get the proposal that you want? If it's the happy feelings, just enjoy them, even if they make you jittery or a little anxious. If it's dread, you probably aren't fine with the possibility that he won't propose, in which case you need to talk to him or make peace with the fact that he may not propose on the trip.
posted by wansac at 5:16 PM on August 16, 2011 [2 favorites]