When people don't tell you who they are, what do you believe?
July 29, 2011 8:44 PM Subscribe
I recently hooked up with a guy I talked to every day for a few months online. I ended up liking him a lot in person and getting my hopes up in the few hours we spent together, but he has significantly scaled back his interest now that the chase is over. What can I do to get over this in a satisfactory way? Details inside.
I met a guy on an online dating site back in the spring. He contacted me, I liked the vibe he gave off in his profile, and we chatted for a while. He asked me to hang out spontaneously a few times for coffee or afternoon shopping when I legitimately doing something else, so I tried to reschedule. He never responded to my rescheduling emails at all. I got the sense that he is not much for planning and very much one for "keeping his options open," but he kept chatting with me anyway and so it didn't bother me too much.
Somewhere, our talk got flirty, and then sexy, and then outright explicit. I was fine with this and even encouraged it; it had been a while for me and I thought he was hot in his pictures. He started inviting me over, in a roundabout indirect sort of way, almost every night of every weekend. I rejected his invitations for about a month and a half, no matter how much I theoretically wanted him, because I am not the sort of girl to drive to a strange man's house for sex in the middle of the night.
However....last week, driven crazy by curiosity, I did it. Things proceeded as expected. I was nervous, but he initiated everything and in doing so, turned out to be a conscientious, respectful, concerned for my boundaries and comfort sort of guy in person. I liked him so much more than I thought I would. We snuggled up a little bit before I went to leave, then he gave me a hug and a kiss and said we'd talk later online.
Since we, uh, met, our conversation has waned pretty decently on his end. He talks to me most of the time with some of the same enthusiasm he had before, but he doesn't want to chat nearly as much as he used to and ignores some of my messages completely (not anything serious, just little messages that would have easily gotten a response from him before). This is giving me flashbacks to when we started talking right in the beginning, when he told me he found some women to be "too clingy" and he doesn't like receiving chats/phone calls/IMs every day. Because he was pretty much chatting/IMing me every day....y'know, until we hooked up.
A few days ago I told him flat out that I'm OK with keeping this relationship as a friends with benefits sort of thing. It's true that I am not in want of "dating" (however I am extremely interested in having an intimate physical/emotional relationship with another person, not necessarily in an exclusive way). I also mentioned that I really liked him as a person in person, but if he doesn't want to hang out again, he should honestly let me know. In fact I said I'd rather know so I can move on. I gave him the out, but he said that of course he wants to hang out again and seemed convincingly enthusiastic about it. Hooray! Except now he is ignoring me again.
I know my inexperience is showing here, but I'm hurt by the decreased interest since sexing me (was he not attracted to me in person?). I know that it's important to take someone at his word, but I also don't want to invest too much more hope of companionship and satisfying sex with this flighty man if whoops, actually, we're really never hanging out again and he just doesn't want to tell me that for...some reason. Should I jump ship now to make my heart hurt a little less? If not, what can I do to ease my mind about the whole thing?
I met a guy on an online dating site back in the spring. He contacted me, I liked the vibe he gave off in his profile, and we chatted for a while. He asked me to hang out spontaneously a few times for coffee or afternoon shopping when I legitimately doing something else, so I tried to reschedule. He never responded to my rescheduling emails at all. I got the sense that he is not much for planning and very much one for "keeping his options open," but he kept chatting with me anyway and so it didn't bother me too much.
Somewhere, our talk got flirty, and then sexy, and then outright explicit. I was fine with this and even encouraged it; it had been a while for me and I thought he was hot in his pictures. He started inviting me over, in a roundabout indirect sort of way, almost every night of every weekend. I rejected his invitations for about a month and a half, no matter how much I theoretically wanted him, because I am not the sort of girl to drive to a strange man's house for sex in the middle of the night.
However....last week, driven crazy by curiosity, I did it. Things proceeded as expected. I was nervous, but he initiated everything and in doing so, turned out to be a conscientious, respectful, concerned for my boundaries and comfort sort of guy in person. I liked him so much more than I thought I would. We snuggled up a little bit before I went to leave, then he gave me a hug and a kiss and said we'd talk later online.
Since we, uh, met, our conversation has waned pretty decently on his end. He talks to me most of the time with some of the same enthusiasm he had before, but he doesn't want to chat nearly as much as he used to and ignores some of my messages completely (not anything serious, just little messages that would have easily gotten a response from him before). This is giving me flashbacks to when we started talking right in the beginning, when he told me he found some women to be "too clingy" and he doesn't like receiving chats/phone calls/IMs every day. Because he was pretty much chatting/IMing me every day....y'know, until we hooked up.
A few days ago I told him flat out that I'm OK with keeping this relationship as a friends with benefits sort of thing. It's true that I am not in want of "dating" (however I am extremely interested in having an intimate physical/emotional relationship with another person, not necessarily in an exclusive way). I also mentioned that I really liked him as a person in person, but if he doesn't want to hang out again, he should honestly let me know. In fact I said I'd rather know so I can move on. I gave him the out, but he said that of course he wants to hang out again and seemed convincingly enthusiastic about it. Hooray! Except now he is ignoring me again.
I know my inexperience is showing here, but I'm hurt by the decreased interest since sexing me (was he not attracted to me in person?). I know that it's important to take someone at his word, but I also don't want to invest too much more hope of companionship and satisfying sex with this flighty man if whoops, actually, we're really never hanging out again and he just doesn't want to tell me that for...some reason. Should I jump ship now to make my heart hurt a little less? If not, what can I do to ease my mind about the whole thing?
If he was inviting you over to his house for sex from the very beginning, then chances are he was only ever interested in casual sex. I found this to be really common with people on online dating sites. I guess it's possible that people can go from interested in casual sex to interested in a relationship, but that's rare. If a guy is interested in dating, and in you as a person, he probably would suggest coffee/dinner as a first date, and would not be inviting you to his place for the first meeting.
And, I hate to say it, but he probably is pursuing several other women, especially if he good-looking and knows it (not saying all good-looking guys are playboys; just saying it sounds like this guy is both playing the field and has a good chance at doing so because he is confident and attractive).
if you are really okay with all that, then proceed....but to be honest it sounds like you are a bit shaky about this arrangement. It sounds like he has the upper hand here. I'd proceed with caution.
posted by bearette at 8:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]
And, I hate to say it, but he probably is pursuing several other women, especially if he good-looking and knows it (not saying all good-looking guys are playboys; just saying it sounds like this guy is both playing the field and has a good chance at doing so because he is confident and attractive).
if you are really okay with all that, then proceed....but to be honest it sounds like you are a bit shaky about this arrangement. It sounds like he has the upper hand here. I'd proceed with caution.
posted by bearette at 8:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]
Life's too short, move on. If he is interested, he'll give you a call.
posted by TheBones at 8:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by TheBones at 8:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: bearette: To be fair, he did invite me for coffee once way before he started inviting me over to his house. He just didn't successfully reschedule it like I wanted to when I told him I couldn't.
I'm not sure about the whole pursuing other women thing either. He invited me over pretty much every night expecting I'd take him up on it (which would really have screwed him over if he was inviting someone else over at the same time and she also said yes). Which is not to say that he won't try to pursue them now that the mystery of me is resolved, of course.
posted by houndsoflove at 9:01 PM on July 29, 2011
I'm not sure about the whole pursuing other women thing either. He invited me over pretty much every night expecting I'd take him up on it (which would really have screwed him over if he was inviting someone else over at the same time and she also said yes). Which is not to say that he won't try to pursue them now that the mystery of me is resolved, of course.
posted by houndsoflove at 9:01 PM on July 29, 2011
Find someone equally attractive and more reliable.
posted by John Cohen at 9:01 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by John Cohen at 9:01 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
He might or might not want to have sex with you again, but he's surely not going to give you companionship. He's not going to give you an emotionally intimate relationship, even one that's non-exclusive. He's not going to take the out no matter how often or clearly you give it to him.
If you want to fuck him again, play it cool and maybe that will happen. But it sounds like you want more than that, so yes, you should jump ship and start moving on and getting over this guy.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:02 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you want to fuck him again, play it cool and maybe that will happen. But it sounds like you want more than that, so yes, you should jump ship and start moving on and getting over this guy.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:02 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]
It sounds like he was perfectly honest from the beginning- he's interested in no-strings attached sex, and not interested in a relationship (that's what he meant by "he doesn't like receiving chats/phone calls/IMs every day"). I don't think he's "ignoring" you now; I think he's just doing the thing he said from the beginning he was going to do. Honestly, I think the whole thing sounds like more trouble than it's worth and you should let the whole thing fade away.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:04 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:04 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
He invited me over pretty much every night expecting I'd take him up on it
my experience is that guys just looking for sex are very persistent until they get it. They make you feel like you are the only woman in their life....until you have sex with them.
I could be wrong about this situation, but that's just how it read to me.
posted by bearette at 9:05 PM on July 29, 2011 [16 favorites]
my experience is that guys just looking for sex are very persistent until they get it. They make you feel like you are the only woman in their life....until you have sex with them.
I could be wrong about this situation, but that's just how it read to me.
posted by bearette at 9:05 PM on July 29, 2011 [16 favorites]
my experience is that guys just looking for sex are very persistent until they get it. They make you feel like you are the only woman in their life....until you have sex with them.
yep.
posted by sweetkid at 9:14 PM on July 29, 2011
The thing that's dangerous about online dating is that the person can exaggerate certain things about themselves and/or minimize faults of theirs. Actually, it's true of real life dating, too. Did he say what he wanted in the beginning?
He treated you disrespectfully and now it sounds like he's too much of a $#@(! to tell you. In this case, I don't think you should wait to get closure from him. How attractive physically you are does not really matter. He's not going give the affection and respect you deserve, as evidenced in his ignoring you. Move on from him, take some time for yourself, and block communications with him. If you'd like, send him one more message telling him how you really feel before you cut ties.
The longer you "wait" for him, the more you'll regret it in the long-run. If you cut ties with him, you will be in charge of your own life. You have a lot going for you and there are many more men who won't be able to wait to get in touch with you again after you meet them, whether you sleep with them or not.
One last thing...with any type of dating, sometimes it just doesn't work out. Even if you click in the beginning, it can fizzle out just as quickly.
Good luck, feel free to message me if you want to talk more.
posted by skybluesky at 9:28 PM on July 29, 2011
He treated you disrespectfully and now it sounds like he's too much of a $#@(! to tell you. In this case, I don't think you should wait to get closure from him. How attractive physically you are does not really matter. He's not going give the affection and respect you deserve, as evidenced in his ignoring you. Move on from him, take some time for yourself, and block communications with him. If you'd like, send him one more message telling him how you really feel before you cut ties.
The longer you "wait" for him, the more you'll regret it in the long-run. If you cut ties with him, you will be in charge of your own life. You have a lot going for you and there are many more men who won't be able to wait to get in touch with you again after you meet them, whether you sleep with them or not.
One last thing...with any type of dating, sometimes it just doesn't work out. Even if you click in the beginning, it can fizzle out just as quickly.
Good luck, feel free to message me if you want to talk more.
posted by skybluesky at 9:28 PM on July 29, 2011
You gave him an out, but he didn't want to take it because while he is not interested in you, and doesn't want to see you anytime soon, in a week or two he's gonna get horny and try to get with you again. He didn't want to burn that bridge. I suggest that you don't fall for that in two weeks, since he will sleep with you once, and again ignore you until next time he is horny. Friends with benefits can (rarely) work, but only if you guys are truly friends and there is some mutual respect and mutual liking the person enough to hang out with them. Just don't talk to him again, it'll be so much easier to get over this quickly than to drag it on.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 9:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [21 favorites]
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 9:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [21 favorites]
I'm not sure about the whole pursuing other women thing either. He invited me over pretty much every night expecting I'd take him up on it (which would really have screwed him over if he was inviting someone else over at the same time and she also said yes). Which is not to say that he won't try to pursue them now that the mystery of me is resolved, of course.
You only met up with him once. How do you know he wasn't asking women over after all those nights you turned him down? Or him asking you over all those nights other women turned him down...
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:12 PM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]
You only met up with him once. How do you know he wasn't asking women over after all those nights you turned him down? Or him asking you over all those nights other women turned him down...
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:12 PM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm with MaryDellamorte. It's naive to say you thought he wasn't asking other women because it would be awkward if two accepted at the same time! Dude. He would just make up a last minute excuse and reschedule with the one he thought might be more flexible. I mean, if he was that kinda guy, which I'm not saying he is. (although, yeah, sounds an awful lot like he is that type of guy...)
posted by jbenben at 10:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jbenben at 10:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
A few days ago I told him flat out that I'm OK with keeping this relationship as a friends with benefits sort of thing ... (however I am extremely interested in having an intimate physical/emotional relationship with another person, not necessarily in an exclusive way)
No matter how non-exclusive you're fine with being, you are not going to get an emotional relationship from this guy. I doubt you're even going to get a friendship from this guy. Don't put yourself in a position to expect that and get hurt.
I think this guy wants to be able to come and go as he pleases, like the breeze, and not feel like he owes anyone anything. Not even a non-exclusive phone call, chat, IM reply. I'm willing to bet that in his mind, he made this clear to you and you proceeded anyway, therefore he is justified in ignoring you whenever. He probably also feels like by ignoring you a bit now, he's making it clear to you that you shoudn't get attached or expect anything of him.
If you're looking for any kind of emotional gratification at all, even as "friends," don't look for it from him. Only proceed with this if you are fine with him totally losing interest in you as a person and ignoring you, and only sending you random texts asking you over after 11 pm or whatever it is.
posted by Ashley801 at 10:34 PM on July 29, 2011
No matter how non-exclusive you're fine with being, you are not going to get an emotional relationship from this guy. I doubt you're even going to get a friendship from this guy. Don't put yourself in a position to expect that and get hurt.
I think this guy wants to be able to come and go as he pleases, like the breeze, and not feel like he owes anyone anything. Not even a non-exclusive phone call, chat, IM reply. I'm willing to bet that in his mind, he made this clear to you and you proceeded anyway, therefore he is justified in ignoring you whenever. He probably also feels like by ignoring you a bit now, he's making it clear to you that you shoudn't get attached or expect anything of him.
If you're looking for any kind of emotional gratification at all, even as "friends," don't look for it from him. Only proceed with this if you are fine with him totally losing interest in you as a person and ignoring you, and only sending you random texts asking you over after 11 pm or whatever it is.
posted by Ashley801 at 10:34 PM on July 29, 2011
A few days ago I told him flat out that I'm OK with keeping this relationship as a friends with benefits sort of thing.
I meant to address this earlier. No, no you're not. You wouldn't be writing on Metafilter and asking our advice if you truly were OK with just a friends with benefits situation. Don't sell yourself short and say what you think he wants to hear in order for him to keep you around. Please know that you deserve to treat yourself better than that.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:44 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
I meant to address this earlier. No, no you're not. You wouldn't be writing on Metafilter and asking our advice if you truly were OK with just a friends with benefits situation. Don't sell yourself short and say what you think he wants to hear in order for him to keep you around. Please know that you deserve to treat yourself better than that.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 10:44 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm with Ashley801. If you want an intimate physical/emotional relationship, it's not going to happen with this guy. You think he's ignoring you, but he thinks he's not. He's acting par for course for just having casual sex when he feels like it, assuming that you will have sex with him whenever he wants. And note: this has nothing to do with you (i.e. how attractive you are or whatever) but just what this guy's M.O. is. You obviously have certain expectations for how you want a relationship with him to look (e.g. having regular contact), but he is not going to fulfill them. Don't waste any more energy on him. You're hardly losing anything by moving on.
Also: try to meet soon after establishing contact when you're online dating. Talking to someone online for a few months everyday is way, way too much. Knowing someone online vs. knowing someone in real life is completely different, so it's good to meet in person after a few messages. Otherwise, you're just building up huge expectations, which is what happened here. In the beginning, him responding to your rescheduling emails should have been your clue to bow out. If someone is interested in you, it shouldn't be THAT hard to meet up with them - sounds like he was making you jump through hoops. And: ignoring your rescheduling emails was kind of rude. If it was me, I would have interpreted that as "he's not that into me" and said, "next!"
On preview: totally agree with Mary Dellamorte.
posted by foxjacket at 10:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also: try to meet soon after establishing contact when you're online dating. Talking to someone online for a few months everyday is way, way too much. Knowing someone online vs. knowing someone in real life is completely different, so it's good to meet in person after a few messages. Otherwise, you're just building up huge expectations, which is what happened here. In the beginning, him responding to your rescheduling emails should have been your clue to bow out. If someone is interested in you, it shouldn't be THAT hard to meet up with them - sounds like he was making you jump through hoops. And: ignoring your rescheduling emails was kind of rude. If it was me, I would have interpreted that as "he's not that into me" and said, "next!"
On preview: totally agree with Mary Dellamorte.
posted by foxjacket at 10:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: To address some things:
MaryDellamorte: I know he wasn't asking other women over after I turned him down because after I turned him down, he'd take it gracefully and we'd usually just chat or text consistently through the rest of the night until I went to bed. He couldn't have had another woman over if he was still able to do that the whole time.
Of course it's always possible that he would ask me over after asking the others, but I'm inclined to say no to that too. He told me upfront he had met some women from the site, that some of them were nice and some were clingy. As to whether or not he was having a relationship with or sleeping with the nice ones -- when we had the sexual history discussion before doing it, he told me it had been quite a while for him too. I see no reason to assume he was lying about any of this. I don't feel he ever deceived me or that he is the playboy sort.
I respectfully disagree that I am "falling in love with him." I just went to his house not knowing what I really wanted except for physical contact with him at that time, and I left wanting the emotional part of a no-pressure/not necessarily exclusive relationship too because of something appealing I saw in real life him. Yes, I realize this is unwise. That's why I'm feeling vulnerable and anxious and wanting more direct answers to "what is this" than he is willing to give.
And FWIW, he has initiated a few conversations in the days between too. It has not been just me talking at a brick wall. Doesn't change the fact that now that we've met it's no longer the constant chatter of INTEREST INTEREST INTEREST POSSIBILITIES! that it was, but yes, there is that.
posted by houndsoflove at 11:33 PM on July 29, 2011
MaryDellamorte: I know he wasn't asking other women over after I turned him down because after I turned him down, he'd take it gracefully and we'd usually just chat or text consistently through the rest of the night until I went to bed. He couldn't have had another woman over if he was still able to do that the whole time.
Of course it's always possible that he would ask me over after asking the others, but I'm inclined to say no to that too. He told me upfront he had met some women from the site, that some of them were nice and some were clingy. As to whether or not he was having a relationship with or sleeping with the nice ones -- when we had the sexual history discussion before doing it, he told me it had been quite a while for him too. I see no reason to assume he was lying about any of this. I don't feel he ever deceived me or that he is the playboy sort.
I respectfully disagree that I am "falling in love with him." I just went to his house not knowing what I really wanted except for physical contact with him at that time, and I left wanting the emotional part of a no-pressure/not necessarily exclusive relationship too because of something appealing I saw in real life him. Yes, I realize this is unwise. That's why I'm feeling vulnerable and anxious and wanting more direct answers to "what is this" than he is willing to give.
And FWIW, he has initiated a few conversations in the days between too. It has not been just me talking at a brick wall. Doesn't change the fact that now that we've met it's no longer the constant chatter of INTEREST INTEREST INTEREST POSSIBILITIES! that it was, but yes, there is that.
posted by houndsoflove at 11:33 PM on July 29, 2011
Best answer: I believe that it's wise to pay a lot of attention to how things go in the early stages of a possible relationship; if you are feeling uncertain, off kilter, confused, hopeful but then dashed, but then encouraged, and then again discouraged, if you feel like you don't understand the playing field, if you find yourself questioning someone's attraction or attention toward you... This is very, very unlikely to ever turn into satisfying relationship or friendship or friends with benefitship. This is very, very likely to turn into something that will hurt you if you are at all vulnerable and you pursue it.
I like a nice, straightforward, clear attraction and overt signals that the person wants to go forward. I like a steady tempo, ease of communication, and an obvious mutual will and desire to spend time together. I don't like ambiguity, obstacles, confusion and doubt. I would never, ever respond to "negging," cat-and-mouse, contradictory signals, actions that don't match words and vice versa. I would never (again) ignore any little nagging thoughts in the back of my head that suspect something is not completely kosher. I like to feel good; I like someone who makes me feel good, who makes me a better person with the light they bring into my life. I don't like shadowy corners of disquiet or pinpricks of humiliation.
I'm aware that this probably means I'm not the adventuresome risk-taker type, at least when it comes to relationships, and I'm not. Not any more. I'm the happy sort, eternally grateful to be with someone who is, and has been from the very beginning, clear, forthright, accessible, open, loving, and expansive.
Relationships are tricksy, especially in the beginning, even when both parties are as genuine as the day is long, so to me it makes sense to maximize your chances of success by minimizing entanglement with people who don't make you feel good, who make you worry, who make you doubt yourself. It is very, very rare that a relationship with those signposts in the beginning will turn into something better later.
posted by taz at 12:28 AM on July 30, 2011 [48 favorites]
I like a nice, straightforward, clear attraction and overt signals that the person wants to go forward. I like a steady tempo, ease of communication, and an obvious mutual will and desire to spend time together. I don't like ambiguity, obstacles, confusion and doubt. I would never, ever respond to "negging," cat-and-mouse, contradictory signals, actions that don't match words and vice versa. I would never (again) ignore any little nagging thoughts in the back of my head that suspect something is not completely kosher. I like to feel good; I like someone who makes me feel good, who makes me a better person with the light they bring into my life. I don't like shadowy corners of disquiet or pinpricks of humiliation.
I'm aware that this probably means I'm not the adventuresome risk-taker type, at least when it comes to relationships, and I'm not. Not any more. I'm the happy sort, eternally grateful to be with someone who is, and has been from the very beginning, clear, forthright, accessible, open, loving, and expansive.
Relationships are tricksy, especially in the beginning, even when both parties are as genuine as the day is long, so to me it makes sense to maximize your chances of success by minimizing entanglement with people who don't make you feel good, who make you worry, who make you doubt yourself. It is very, very rare that a relationship with those signposts in the beginning will turn into something better later.
posted by taz at 12:28 AM on July 30, 2011 [48 favorites]
Best answer: houndsoflove, a lot of us who are giving you kind of blunt answers are not trying to be rude and dash your hopes, but I think most of us are women for whom this scenario is all too familiar. Guy has sex with you, guy seems to lose interest....yes', stop investing now unless you truly don't care and truly just want a fuck buddy.....but to us it sounds you kind of care. And we don't want you to get hurt, because we've been there.
I mean, at best he is confused about what he wants. A guy who wants to be in a respectful relationship of any kind won't ignore you after sex. A lot of us have been there and we wish we had stopped investing much earlier on. it does not have to do with how attractive you are or whatever.
I don't know how old you are, and I don't meant to be patronizing AT ALL, because you should see some of the situations I've been involved in. But I have a feeling some of us advising are at least 30, and we don't want to see a young women anguishing over some guy who is maybe being wishy washy or maybe taking advantage. It's just not worth it.
get your hot self back out there and get to know someone worthwhile!
posted by bearette at 1:17 AM on July 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
I mean, at best he is confused about what he wants. A guy who wants to be in a respectful relationship of any kind won't ignore you after sex. A lot of us have been there and we wish we had stopped investing much earlier on. it does not have to do with how attractive you are or whatever.
I don't know how old you are, and I don't meant to be patronizing AT ALL, because you should see some of the situations I've been involved in. But I have a feeling some of us advising are at least 30, and we don't want to see a young women anguishing over some guy who is maybe being wishy washy or maybe taking advantage. It's just not worth it.
get your hot self back out there and get to know someone worthwhile!
posted by bearette at 1:17 AM on July 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think he has been putting you in your place from the beginning, and you don't want to stay in it.
Wanting to work out this conundrum doesn't have to mean you are falling for him, but I do think you are trying to get a kind of satisfaction from him that he's not going to give you. Your idea of a respectful FWB/casual kinda dealio isn't the same as his.
Also, fading now is effectively backing down because that's what he wants (i.e. you in your place while he calls the shots). But you aren't going to win this one because he is in charge here, through the principle of least interest. Sometimes you just have to eat your losses.
I wouldn't deal with this guy again (if I were into FWB arrangements) because I don't want to dominate anyone and I don't want to be dominated. in fact, it's absolutely abhorrent to me. But if you like him enough, maybe you will decide it's worth some submission and hoop-jumping to see if he decides it's your turn again one of these days. YMMV.
posted by tel3path at 2:58 AM on July 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wanting to work out this conundrum doesn't have to mean you are falling for him, but I do think you are trying to get a kind of satisfaction from him that he's not going to give you. Your idea of a respectful FWB/casual kinda dealio isn't the same as his.
Also, fading now is effectively backing down because that's what he wants (i.e. you in your place while he calls the shots). But you aren't going to win this one because he is in charge here, through the principle of least interest. Sometimes you just have to eat your losses.
I wouldn't deal with this guy again (if I were into FWB arrangements) because I don't want to dominate anyone and I don't want to be dominated. in fact, it's absolutely abhorrent to me. But if you like him enough, maybe you will decide it's worth some submission and hoop-jumping to see if he decides it's your turn again one of these days. YMMV.
posted by tel3path at 2:58 AM on July 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: In new relationships, some people feel that the person who "wants it least" like tel3path says above me, is "in control."
And I believe it. You're waiting, with bated breath, for him to reply to your messages. Is he initiating any of these conversations online, or are you throwing out a few snippets a day, hoping one of them catches his attention?
Wait a few days. If he doesn't message you out of the blue in that time, then you'll have your answer. As long as you keep hounding him, he knows he's got a live one on the line. If you disappear, you get two things. One, headspace to focus on other things you want. Two, assurance that when he contacts you it's (more likely) genuine and not just staving you off for a bit.
Most likely, he is not interested in the fact that you like "the real him in person," because liking a real person in person is the beginning of a relationship, and I think he did tell you up front who he is. His use of the descriptor "clingy" was likely a subtle code for "wanted a relationship." I'm sorry that he didn't have the balls and/or vocabulary to be more direct about that.
posted by bilabial at 4:21 AM on July 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
And I believe it. You're waiting, with bated breath, for him to reply to your messages. Is he initiating any of these conversations online, or are you throwing out a few snippets a day, hoping one of them catches his attention?
Wait a few days. If he doesn't message you out of the blue in that time, then you'll have your answer. As long as you keep hounding him, he knows he's got a live one on the line. If you disappear, you get two things. One, headspace to focus on other things you want. Two, assurance that when he contacts you it's (more likely) genuine and not just staving you off for a bit.
Most likely, he is not interested in the fact that you like "the real him in person," because liking a real person in person is the beginning of a relationship, and I think he did tell you up front who he is. His use of the descriptor "clingy" was likely a subtle code for "wanted a relationship." I'm sorry that he didn't have the balls and/or vocabulary to be more direct about that.
posted by bilabial at 4:21 AM on July 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
What I hear is that you really want to continue a relationship, sexual, friend and possibly more. His actions indicate that he doesn't. Plenty of guys like the chase, but don't want to admit it, even to themselves. Listen to his actions, not his words.
posted by theora55 at 6:40 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 6:40 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
He couldn't have had another woman over if he was still able to do that the whole time.
Sorry, but a man can be married and be at home with his wife and kids and still do this. (Not that I'm suggesting this is happening in your case. Just pointing out that your evidence methodology is flawed.)
posted by elizardbits at 7:32 AM on July 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Sorry, but a man can be married and be at home with his wife and kids and still do this. (Not that I'm suggesting this is happening in your case. Just pointing out that your evidence methodology is flawed.)
posted by elizardbits at 7:32 AM on July 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
scale back on the communication. look around for more promising leads while leaving this one on the back burner. if you aren't getting what you want from someone you are not required to follow your hormones when they want another bite at a previous apple.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:02 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Ironmouth at 8:02 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: bilabial: Yes, he has initiated conversations. I think after reading all the answers, I am going to take your advice and not message him for a while and see what happens. You're right that if there is interest in anything further there, he should act on my desire to hang out again -- it's that simple.
Now that I'm in a less anxious headspace looking back on things, I agree that he probably did tell me up front who he is. But I don't know if not liking clingy (especially in the beginning of a relationship) means he doesn't want any sort of close relationship with anyone. We have met only once in person. He told me way before that that he is the reclusive and independent sort, and wants the same sort of independence from his relationships. That is fine with me and when I am confident someone likes me, I feel the same way -- calm, like we don't need to be together or talking all the time.
So yes, maybe he's not talking as much because he just wanted casual sex. But maybe he also has that feeling that I get when I know a person likes me, which is that I don't need to be in such constant, "if we don't keep talking you'll lose interest omg" contact with them anymore. Maybe my neediness here stems from the fact that he has told me he figured on us getting together again, but he hasn't told me what he wants or what he's thinking he wants to happen from that. (Maybe he doesn't know.) I think that this is more about my anxiety than anything about him after all, and those of you who are telling me not to settle for anything I truly don't want are speaking to me the most. Thank you.
I am going to go over to his house again if he asks. Of course I am. But if I get the sense that he's not interested in getting to know me as a person after that, I will begin the process of pulling away.
elizardbits: He'd respond to me in like one to two minute intervals, consistently. I'm presuming that if he had another woman over for sex, his hands would be too busy for that.
posted by houndsoflove at 8:10 AM on July 30, 2011
Now that I'm in a less anxious headspace looking back on things, I agree that he probably did tell me up front who he is. But I don't know if not liking clingy (especially in the beginning of a relationship) means he doesn't want any sort of close relationship with anyone. We have met only once in person. He told me way before that that he is the reclusive and independent sort, and wants the same sort of independence from his relationships. That is fine with me and when I am confident someone likes me, I feel the same way -- calm, like we don't need to be together or talking all the time.
So yes, maybe he's not talking as much because he just wanted casual sex. But maybe he also has that feeling that I get when I know a person likes me, which is that I don't need to be in such constant, "if we don't keep talking you'll lose interest omg" contact with them anymore. Maybe my neediness here stems from the fact that he has told me he figured on us getting together again, but he hasn't told me what he wants or what he's thinking he wants to happen from that. (Maybe he doesn't know.) I think that this is more about my anxiety than anything about him after all, and those of you who are telling me not to settle for anything I truly don't want are speaking to me the most. Thank you.
I am going to go over to his house again if he asks. Of course I am. But if I get the sense that he's not interested in getting to know me as a person after that, I will begin the process of pulling away.
elizardbits: He'd respond to me in like one to two minute intervals, consistently. I'm presuming that if he had another woman over for sex, his hands would be too busy for that.
posted by houndsoflove at 8:10 AM on July 30, 2011
Sweetie, if this was right it would feel more right to you. Trust your big sisters on metafilter - most likely, this guy just wants to have you around to sleep with every so often, and does not want a relationship like you do. Keep on hanging out with him if you want, but also keep on looking for that guy who makes you feel good instead of confused.
posted by yarly at 8:31 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by yarly at 8:31 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, I have to agree with what everyone else has said. I also think that because you sound pretty caught up on this guy, that you should completely walk away from him without any sort of denouement.
I was in a situation many, many moons ago of being caught up on this guy who just seemed perfect for me and "If I just stick around long enough, he'll realize how awesome I am!" before I had to accept that I was just a booty call. In the end, it was worth it though though, I guess, because it really got through my thick skull that I should not date or sleep with assholes. This guy may not be a grade-1 asshole...but he's sure acting like one.
posted by smirkette at 8:55 AM on July 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
I was in a situation many, many moons ago of being caught up on this guy who just seemed perfect for me and "If I just stick around long enough, he'll realize how awesome I am!" before I had to accept that I was just a booty call. In the end, it was worth it though though, I guess, because it really got through my thick skull that I should not date or sleep with assholes. This guy may not be a grade-1 asshole...but he's sure acting like one.
posted by smirkette at 8:55 AM on July 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: He told me way before that that he is the reclusive and independent sort, and wants the same sort of independence from his relationships. That is fine with me and when I am confident someone likes me, I feel the same way -- calm, like we don't need to be together or talking all the time.
Hmm. But you are not confident he likes you, probably because he doesn't want you to be. To be honest and blunt, I see some wishful thinking in this idea that his desire for independence is the same as yours.
It sounds like if he had to describe his ideal relationship in a few words, it would be: independent, not needy, fun, easy. You on the other hand, it sounds like you'd say: intimate, communicative, close, secure.
You are naturally independent in a secure relationship. But that's not what he wants. He wants no strings. He doesn't want you to feel confident that he'll be there for you, because he doesn't want that kind of obligation.
But maybe he also has that feeling that I get when I know a person likes me, which is that I don't need to be in such constant, "if we don't keep talking you'll lose interest omg" contact with them anymore.
Maybe in part. But he specifically has an aversion to "neediness," so I don't think he's merely going on his way in confidence that there is something there. I think closeness makes him nervous (he dislikes it and communicates this by blaming the "needy" person for his discomfort). So I think the idea that there is something there might have him nervous; he might be on his guard about whether this is going to go down one of those "needy" pathways; and he is trying to make very clear that he will not reliably respond.
So I think that what you want -- the kind of security (if not monogamous) that will leave you confident -- is not what he wants. I see no problem with you answering another booty call. But I'd discourage you from doing what you're doing in this thread: (1) blaming your feelings of insecurity, which are natural in a situation that is insecure, on your own "anxiety" and (2) normalizing his desire for distance and his resistance to the burden of reliability. I'm not trying to be mean to him -- we all have issues and if an aversion to closeness is his, well he probably "came by it honestly" (as my therapist would say, meaning that it was helpful to him growing up).
But I see you as having extremely normal and justifiable expectations (to plan ahead for a coffee date, to receive replies to your texts), and I'd hate to see you explain your discomfort as being your own fault (anxiety). It's extremely normal to feel insecure in a situation where you want reliability and the other person doesn't want the burden of offering it. You'll be more comfortable if you see him and this relationship for what they are, rather than trying to make excuses for him that put the source/blame for your discomfort on yourself.
posted by salvia at 10:12 AM on July 30, 2011 [17 favorites]
Hmm. But you are not confident he likes you, probably because he doesn't want you to be. To be honest and blunt, I see some wishful thinking in this idea that his desire for independence is the same as yours.
It sounds like if he had to describe his ideal relationship in a few words, it would be: independent, not needy, fun, easy. You on the other hand, it sounds like you'd say: intimate, communicative, close, secure.
You are naturally independent in a secure relationship. But that's not what he wants. He wants no strings. He doesn't want you to feel confident that he'll be there for you, because he doesn't want that kind of obligation.
But maybe he also has that feeling that I get when I know a person likes me, which is that I don't need to be in such constant, "if we don't keep talking you'll lose interest omg" contact with them anymore.
Maybe in part. But he specifically has an aversion to "neediness," so I don't think he's merely going on his way in confidence that there is something there. I think closeness makes him nervous (he dislikes it and communicates this by blaming the "needy" person for his discomfort). So I think the idea that there is something there might have him nervous; he might be on his guard about whether this is going to go down one of those "needy" pathways; and he is trying to make very clear that he will not reliably respond.
So I think that what you want -- the kind of security (if not monogamous) that will leave you confident -- is not what he wants. I see no problem with you answering another booty call. But I'd discourage you from doing what you're doing in this thread: (1) blaming your feelings of insecurity, which are natural in a situation that is insecure, on your own "anxiety" and (2) normalizing his desire for distance and his resistance to the burden of reliability. I'm not trying to be mean to him -- we all have issues and if an aversion to closeness is his, well he probably "came by it honestly" (as my therapist would say, meaning that it was helpful to him growing up).
But I see you as having extremely normal and justifiable expectations (to plan ahead for a coffee date, to receive replies to your texts), and I'd hate to see you explain your discomfort as being your own fault (anxiety). It's extremely normal to feel insecure in a situation where you want reliability and the other person doesn't want the burden of offering it. You'll be more comfortable if you see him and this relationship for what they are, rather than trying to make excuses for him that put the source/blame for your discomfort on yourself.
posted by salvia at 10:12 AM on July 30, 2011 [17 favorites]
Response by poster: That is a wonderful answer, salvia. Thank you.
posted by houndsoflove at 11:23 AM on July 30, 2011
posted by houndsoflove at 11:23 AM on July 30, 2011
His idea of "clingy" is probably that he wants to engage with you on his terms only and if you assert yourself, you're "clingy". It's a shitty way to relate to people, but I see it happen a lot.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 11:45 AM on July 30, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 11:45 AM on July 30, 2011 [5 favorites]
You sound like you are in major denial. He isn't interested in you and his spending more time with you won't change his mind. I find that guys are very stubborn minded that way -- when they start out lukewarm on somebody their feelings rarely grow. As someone who was in a similar situation a year ago, I strongly advice you to run. Btw, if you really need convincing that he's not interested stop initiating contact and see what happens.
posted by timsneezed at 2:32 PM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by timsneezed at 2:32 PM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone, for the thoughts and support. You have helped me dial my expectations/hopes back and realize that while I am probably going to get the sex from him again, the intimacy part is iffy. The fact remains that we have only met in person once, only hung out for about two hours total before and after the sex, and that is not much basis for the "friends" part of "friends with benefits". salvia is right that my expectations are normal and healthy, but perhaps my desire to fly right into intimacy is not healthy for me for this situation. So if I meet him again in person, still feel that I want this, and don't see a chance for what I want to happen anywhere outside the bedroom, I will cut it off.
FWIW again, since I said I was going to take bilabial's advice, he ended up messaging me out of the blue last night just to talk.
posted by houndsoflove at 1:24 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
FWIW again, since I said I was going to take bilabial's advice, he ended up messaging me out of the blue last night just to talk.
posted by houndsoflove at 1:24 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Falwless at 8:49 PM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]