Corner grocer?
May 25, 2005 7:09 AM Subscribe
Do you have a corner grocer where you live? A market to pick up fresh veggies, meats or cheeses, or maybe a bottle of wine for that evening's dinner, that you can walk to? Apparently grocers make very little money, so the bigger the store, the lower delivery costs, etc. So why not have several small stores in one area to concentrate delivery? Or go with smaller trucks? Or partner with local farmers? Sort of like CSA for a city dweller.
Are you looking at this as a consumer or a project or a potential business model, Yoga? Sorry, don't get the question either.
However, there are chains of 'upscale mini-marts' that are currently being tested by companies like Haagens, New Seasons, 7-11 Whole Foods, et. al. They stock fresh things like you're curious about, but they're concentrated in areas where the urban, upscale, hip-to-be-organic set live.
posted by SpecialK at 7:38 AM on May 25, 2005
However, there are chains of 'upscale mini-marts' that are currently being tested by companies like Haagens, New Seasons, 7-11 Whole Foods, et. al. They stock fresh things like you're curious about, but they're concentrated in areas where the urban, upscale, hip-to-be-organic set live.
posted by SpecialK at 7:38 AM on May 25, 2005
They seem to be on every other street corner here in DC. But they tend to carry a few staples, beer, and snack foods, not fresh produce or meats. It's very convenient to be able to run down to the corner to get milk and sugar, but there's no way I could do all my shopping there.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:43 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:43 AM on May 25, 2005
If you are talking in suburbs, zoning could become a huge issue.
posted by mischief at 7:51 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by mischief at 7:51 AM on May 25, 2005
Apparently grocers make very little money, so the bigger the store, the lower delivery costs
Also, the bigger the store, the more pricing power with suppliers. Hence, Wal-Mart succeeds, many smaller local businesses struggle.
So why not have several small stores in one area to concentrate delivery?
Different stores need different things at different times. They have arrangements with different suppliers, and may even pay different prices for things than a neighboring store. Managing inventory is difficult enough for one store, much less a group of independent stores that sell different things but happen to be close together.
Or go with smaller trucks?
That won't help. Smaller trucks means you'd need more of them to deliver the same amount of goods - that's more expensive.
Or partner with local farmers?
Local farmers have to charge more than big suppliers to stay afloat. Also, assuming the quality is the same, what's easier and less expensive from the point of view of the store: managing many small, local suppliers or a few big suppliers?
It's all about economies of scale and diminishing returns.
posted by nyterrant at 7:51 AM on May 25, 2005
Also, the bigger the store, the more pricing power with suppliers. Hence, Wal-Mart succeeds, many smaller local businesses struggle.
So why not have several small stores in one area to concentrate delivery?
Different stores need different things at different times. They have arrangements with different suppliers, and may even pay different prices for things than a neighboring store. Managing inventory is difficult enough for one store, much less a group of independent stores that sell different things but happen to be close together.
Or go with smaller trucks?
That won't help. Smaller trucks means you'd need more of them to deliver the same amount of goods - that's more expensive.
Or partner with local farmers?
Local farmers have to charge more than big suppliers to stay afloat. Also, assuming the quality is the same, what's easier and less expensive from the point of view of the store: managing many small, local suppliers or a few big suppliers?
It's all about economies of scale and diminishing returns.
posted by nyterrant at 7:51 AM on May 25, 2005
The model you suggest is not out of the question. I know back home, there was a small 'chain' of neighbourhood independent grocers that were all separately owned, but had come together as a cooperative to leverage a bit more market power when buying. They also established a bit of a brand identity by painting all the stores yellow, and eventually by having a joined sales flyer, though individual stores still do their own sales, as well. They are never going to compete with Great Canadian Superstore, but they seem to do okay.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:56 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by jacquilynne at 7:56 AM on May 25, 2005
I'm not clear on how this model would be like a CSA, but CSAs are already available for many city dwellers -- I think more so than for other people, actually, because it's easier to deliver to a cost-effective number of people if they're gathered all in one place.
posted by redfoxtail at 8:33 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by redfoxtail at 8:33 AM on May 25, 2005
That's the model that immigrant groceries use. In New York, they're often Koreans, in Paris Moroccans or Algerians, and in Barcelona Pakistanis. Immigrants wind up doing those jobs because they are willing to work the long hours for low pay. They mostly use the same distributors (run by immigrants that they know how to deal with), and carry the same products.
They generally don't carry produce from local farmers, because the aggregation has to happen on the supply side, not on the distribution side. If local farmers could get together into a cooperative that could ensure a steady supply and a consistent level of quality, they'd be able to negotiate better with distributors to get their products into local groceries.
Price is still the barrier for local produce. In Barcelona, there are produce markets all across the city that have many different stands that deal more or less directly with different local producers. In Paris, almost all of the produce for the city goes through the wholesale market in Rungis. The local distribution network in Paris turns out not to make much of a difference: local produce is more expensive than imported produce in both cities. The economies of scale from industrial agriculture make more of a difference in price than the local transportation costs. Here in Barcelona, I can find crappy industrial strawberries from the south of Spain in any market, but I have to hunt for the good ones that come from the Maresme, which is only 20 miles away, and pay double the price.
If local produce is always going to be more expensive, than the only way it can get a market is to go upscale. That requires marketing to brand the benefits of buying local. The "organic" label is a good example. Another is the "Denomination d'origine" label in France, which allows local producers to set production standards and get a government-controlled brand. Bresse chickens, most local cheeses, Charentes butter, and Guerande salt all get to charge a hefty premium because of the reputation that goes with the label. My impression is that in the US, producers, consumers, and the USDA are far, far away from developing that kind of culture.
posted by fuzz at 9:29 AM on May 25, 2005
They generally don't carry produce from local farmers, because the aggregation has to happen on the supply side, not on the distribution side. If local farmers could get together into a cooperative that could ensure a steady supply and a consistent level of quality, they'd be able to negotiate better with distributors to get their products into local groceries.
Price is still the barrier for local produce. In Barcelona, there are produce markets all across the city that have many different stands that deal more or less directly with different local producers. In Paris, almost all of the produce for the city goes through the wholesale market in Rungis. The local distribution network in Paris turns out not to make much of a difference: local produce is more expensive than imported produce in both cities. The economies of scale from industrial agriculture make more of a difference in price than the local transportation costs. Here in Barcelona, I can find crappy industrial strawberries from the south of Spain in any market, but I have to hunt for the good ones that come from the Maresme, which is only 20 miles away, and pay double the price.
If local produce is always going to be more expensive, than the only way it can get a market is to go upscale. That requires marketing to brand the benefits of buying local. The "organic" label is a good example. Another is the "Denomination d'origine" label in France, which allows local producers to set production standards and get a government-controlled brand. Bresse chickens, most local cheeses, Charentes butter, and Guerande salt all get to charge a hefty premium because of the reputation that goes with the label. My impression is that in the US, producers, consumers, and the USDA are far, far away from developing that kind of culture.
posted by fuzz at 9:29 AM on May 25, 2005
Best answer: I don't know what you're asking, yoga, but I do know that it must relate to a project of mine: the Locally Grown Cooperative here in Athens, GA. More like a farmers' market than a CSA, the "city dwellers" have two days a week they can browse the available produce from all the farms and place their orders, then they all come to a single pick-up point to get their stuff.
In the past year, I've been invited all over the country to talk to other farmers about what I've done -- apparently it is quite unique. In the upcoming year, the software I'm using (osCommerce that's been heavily modified to suit our model) will be made available for anyone who wants to do the same.
We're in our fourth year, and it's been wildly successful and even a bit profitable.
posted by ewagoner at 11:49 AM on May 25, 2005
In the past year, I've been invited all over the country to talk to other farmers about what I've done -- apparently it is quite unique. In the upcoming year, the software I'm using (osCommerce that's been heavily modified to suit our model) will be made available for anyone who wants to do the same.
We're in our fourth year, and it's been wildly successful and even a bit profitable.
posted by ewagoner at 11:49 AM on May 25, 2005
Response by poster: Apologies for the lack of clarity; it stemmed from wanting a small local grocer I could walk to after work to get dinner fixin's. My take was a glorified farmer's market, and why aren't there more in urban settings? Fresh is obviously best, but if I walk 4 miles to the store when it's 90* and 70% humidity, what does that leave me with when I get home? Aside from the time consumption factor, it'd be nice if it were closer. thanks for the info, Eric, I may be in touch.
posted by yoga at 11:57 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by yoga at 11:57 AM on May 25, 2005
In north Oakland, California (very close to the Berkeley border) there is (or was, five years ago, anyway) a series of independently owned speciality shops (produce, butcher, wine, fresh fish, pasta and similar, bakery, more or less) right next to each other (on College Avenue, near the intersection of Claremont). Interesting enough, there was (and still is) a Safeway supermarket directly across the street.
There is another small cluster of speciality shops (fish, buther, bakery, cheese and pasta) in a neighborhood in north Berkeley within a block of the Monterey Market, which specializes in fresh produce but does carry a lot of everyday (non-produce) items as well.
It always seemed to me like an attractive model, but of course it has to be a place where people are willing to pay extra for high quality. Moreover, something like a Whole Foods within (say) a mile would probably attact enough customers to make it very difficult to survive.
posted by WestCoaster at 6:48 PM on May 25, 2005
There is another small cluster of speciality shops (fish, buther, bakery, cheese and pasta) in a neighborhood in north Berkeley within a block of the Monterey Market, which specializes in fresh produce but does carry a lot of everyday (non-produce) items as well.
It always seemed to me like an attractive model, but of course it has to be a place where people are willing to pay extra for high quality. Moreover, something like a Whole Foods within (say) a mile would probably attact enough customers to make it very difficult to survive.
posted by WestCoaster at 6:48 PM on May 25, 2005
We have the Farm to City project in the summer and Winter Harvest in the winter, the former of which coordiates farmers markets around the city, the latter of which is more like the program ewagoner mentions, where we go pick up pre-ordered stuff from a variety of local suppliers. Not to mention multiple year-round markets.
Depends on where you live whether this is feasible. Those of us in big cities in close proximity to a lot of farmland are lucky enough to have something akin to what you're asking for. Well, some cities do, anyway.
posted by desuetude at 7:35 PM on May 25, 2005
Depends on where you live whether this is feasible. Those of us in big cities in close proximity to a lot of farmland are lucky enough to have something akin to what you're asking for. Well, some cities do, anyway.
posted by desuetude at 7:35 PM on May 25, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
A lot of these small grocers aren't dealing with delivery costs on vegetables, fruits, and meats in any case. Most of them mosey down to the warehouses and pick up the goods themselves. Dry goods, of course, tend to be delivered by distributors.
So, I'm sorry, what's the question?
posted by majick at 7:24 AM on May 25, 2005