Grammar error? "Working since I'm 12"
June 14, 2011 1:37 PM Subscribe
Why do some people say "since I'm 12" instead of "since I was 12"?
This is pretty random but: I've noticed before that some people who are educated and otherwise speak normally make a weird grammatical error when referring to something past tense. For example, I heard someone say the other day, "I've been working since I'm 15"...this sounds totally wrong to me--shouldn't it be "I've been working since I was 15"?? I'm wondering if it is an east coast/cultural thing, since the last two times I've heard it it was said by TV characters who were from New York (though they didn't necessarily have New York accents, so I don't think they were meant to sound overtly 'New York'). I've just always been so curious....I'm a Californian born and bred so maybe a lot of people elsewhere talk this way, I've just only heard it a few times but it really stood out to me.
This is pretty random but: I've noticed before that some people who are educated and otherwise speak normally make a weird grammatical error when referring to something past tense. For example, I heard someone say the other day, "I've been working since I'm 15"...this sounds totally wrong to me--shouldn't it be "I've been working since I was 15"?? I'm wondering if it is an east coast/cultural thing, since the last two times I've heard it it was said by TV characters who were from New York (though they didn't necessarily have New York accents, so I don't think they were meant to sound overtly 'New York'). I've just always been so curious....I'm a Californian born and bred so maybe a lot of people elsewhere talk this way, I've just only heard it a few times but it really stood out to me.
Born and raised in a suburb of NYC, have lived in Upstate NY for a few years. If I ever heard someone say that (I don't think I have...) I would be confused as to what they meant, and would think they misspoke.
posted by i_am_a_fiesta at 1:40 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by i_am_a_fiesta at 1:40 PM on June 14, 2011
I've never heard that, ever.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm an East Coaster and have never heard this before. Just more evidence that tv characters make for bad educators.
posted by anya32 at 1:41 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by anya32 at 1:41 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Could you point to the series/episode where you heard this?
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:42 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:42 PM on June 14, 2011
I also lived in the East Coast for many years, and West Coast, and other international places and have never heard that before.
posted by mrdexterous at 1:42 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by mrdexterous at 1:42 PM on June 14, 2011
I have also never heard that. It is possibly just a regional variation. Or perhaps you misheard, especially if it was on TV.
posted by maybeandroid at 1:43 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by maybeandroid at 1:43 PM on June 14, 2011
Best answer: I say it that way, well since I'm 7. And, so do many people I know. I'm a New Yorker.
posted by Pineapplicious at 1:45 PM on June 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Pineapplicious at 1:45 PM on June 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: That is just so strange!! I can't imagine why they would write a character's dialogue that way if there wasn't some kind of basis, you know?
I know I have heard it elsewhere--I can't recall where now--but BOTH times I've heard it most recently it was on Sex and the City (don't judge me!!) The one episode I can remember was "Hot Child in the City" and there's a girl whose bar mitzvah one of the women is planning and the girl is um...wise beyond her years, and says something like, "Please, I've been giving [something no 13-year old should be doing] since I'm 12"....so OK, that could be attributed to a kid, but I KNOW I've heard an adult say it on that show before too!! Now I sound like a crazy person, haha.
posted by lovableiago at 1:45 PM on June 14, 2011
I know I have heard it elsewhere--I can't recall where now--but BOTH times I've heard it most recently it was on Sex and the City (don't judge me!!) The one episode I can remember was "Hot Child in the City" and there's a girl whose bar mitzvah one of the women is planning and the girl is um...wise beyond her years, and says something like, "Please, I've been giving [something no 13-year old should be doing] since I'm 12"....so OK, that could be attributed to a kid, but I KNOW I've heard an adult say it on that show before too!! Now I sound like a crazy person, haha.
posted by lovableiago at 1:45 PM on June 14, 2011
The only people I've heard say that were not native English speakers.
posted by TooFewShoes at 1:46 PM on June 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by TooFewShoes at 1:46 PM on June 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
Born and raised in NYC, and I've heard people say this. But TV dialog is not a good indicator of how people speak.
Most New Yorkers don't say this.
posted by dfriedman at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011
Most New Yorkers don't say this.
posted by dfriedman at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011
This doesn't answer your question and I haven't heard people say this either, but here's a related data point from another language: "since I'm 15" is exactly how that construction works in French. In fact, both verbs in your example would be in the present: "I'm working since I'm 15," as in the "depuis" examples here, where the verbs are in the present tense.
posted by clavicle at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by clavicle at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I grew up in NYC, never heard that and have never said that. It might be something like the change of "couldn't care less" to "could care less"
I have plenty of regionalisms in my speech.
posted by fifilaru at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011
I have plenty of regionalisms in my speech.
posted by fifilaru at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011
Best answer: Curiouser and curiouser; Jerry Weibtraub in Variety:
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
"I have a brilliant life," says the gregarious Weintraub, "But I work for it. I've been working since I'm 14 years old. I'm 69. You do the math."Maybe a Yiddish construction or transliteration?
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:49 PM on June 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
> Why do some people say "since I'm 12" instead of "since I was 12"?
Presumably because that is how it seems natural to them to say it, just as it seems natural to you to say "since I was 12." It is neither accurate nor helpful to think of it as "a weird grammatical error"; it is a different form of English than you are used to.
In New York City, unlike almost everywhere else, they talk about standing on line rather than in line. When I first moved there, it sounded very weird to me. Then I got used to it. Then I started saying it myself. Different idioms are neither better nor worse, they're just different.
posted by languagehat at 1:52 PM on June 14, 2011 [7 favorites]
Presumably because that is how it seems natural to them to say it, just as it seems natural to you to say "since I was 12." It is neither accurate nor helpful to think of it as "a weird grammatical error"; it is a different form of English than you are used to.
In New York City, unlike almost everywhere else, they talk about standing on line rather than in line. When I first moved there, it sounded very weird to me. Then I got used to it. Then I started saying it myself. Different idioms are neither better nor worse, they're just different.
posted by languagehat at 1:52 PM on June 14, 2011 [7 favorites]
Mod note: please do not start prescriptive/descriptive linguistics arguments here. OP is not asking "is this correct" Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:57 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:57 PM on June 14, 2011
In French, if you want to say "I am 12 years old" you say "J'ai 12 ans" (literally, I have 12 years). But if you want to say "I've been working since I was 12" you'd say "Je travaille depuis que j'ai 12 ans." So the construction of "I am 12" is the same, like your example.
I have no idea how this would relate to New York.
posted by desjardins at 2:11 PM on June 14, 2011
I have no idea how this would relate to New York.
posted by desjardins at 2:11 PM on June 14, 2011
ugh, I see that clavicle already covered that.
posted by desjardins at 2:11 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by desjardins at 2:11 PM on June 14, 2011
I've heard it a lot. I'm not sure where I've heard it most, but it's absolutely something people say. Perhaps it's not a construction that stands out to everyone, but it's not just a random literary construction.
I've heard it only from native English speakers; the only person I can definitively point to is a former New Yorker, but hasn't lived there in decades. Maybe it's generational because she talks like her 80-year-old father.
posted by crankyrogalsky at 2:16 PM on June 14, 2011
I've heard it only from native English speakers; the only person I can definitively point to is a former New Yorker, but hasn't lived there in decades. Maybe it's generational because she talks like her 80-year-old father.
posted by crankyrogalsky at 2:16 PM on June 14, 2011
A lot of Eastern Europeans do that when learning English so maybe that's how it got going.
posted by Not Supplied at 2:18 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by Not Supplied at 2:18 PM on June 14, 2011
My ESL students say that. Never heard it from a native speaker.
posted by queens86 at 2:21 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by queens86 at 2:21 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Some people also have a tendency to use the present tense when describing something that happened in the past. "So she says, What? And I go, No way!" We know they're talking about the past from context even though they're technically using the present tense. I thought it was a version of that.
posted by bleep at 2:25 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 2:25 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm really shocked by the general "this is not a real thing" attitude... This is definitely real. I'm a Jewish native New Yorker. I've heard it often from my older relatives and their friends. I wouldn't be surprised if it were related to Yiddish grammar, per the post above.
I don't want to support the theory that this is "only a TV thing", but a hilariously choice example of this phrasing in pop culture is the "slutty bat mitzvah" girl on Sex and the City who claims to have been "giving blowjobs since I'm 12".
posted by telegraph at 2:27 PM on June 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't want to support the theory that this is "only a TV thing", but a hilariously choice example of this phrasing in pop culture is the "slutty bat mitzvah" girl on Sex and the City who claims to have been "giving blowjobs since I'm 12".
posted by telegraph at 2:27 PM on June 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Just to clarify on my point in response to people who are saying this is an ESL thing: my older relatives, whom I often hear using this construct, speak English as their first language.
posted by telegraph at 2:29 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by telegraph at 2:29 PM on June 14, 2011
I grew up in Wisconsin, not NYC, but I've known a lot of New Yorkers, including a lot of Jewish New Yorkers. (I live there now; my dad's side of the family grew up in NYC, etc.) I've never heard of this before reading this thread.
OP is not asking "is this correct"
Yes she is. Her heading says: "Grammar error?"
posted by John Cohen at 2:29 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
OP is not asking "is this correct"
Yes she is. Her heading says: "Grammar error?"
posted by John Cohen at 2:29 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
I have heard this from native English speakers, but only Jewish people from New York/New Jersey. I agree with telegraph that it is probably related to Yiddish in some way.
posted by kate blank at 2:29 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by kate blank at 2:29 PM on June 14, 2011
my older relatives, whom I often hear using this construct, speak English as their first language.
It still could have come into English from other language users. That kind of thing happens a fair bit.
posted by Not Supplied at 2:34 PM on June 14, 2011
It still could have come into English from other language users. That kind of thing happens a fair bit.
posted by Not Supplied at 2:34 PM on June 14, 2011
Sorry for threadsitting... Not Supplied, I totally agree. I just wanted to provide a counterpoint to some of the other answers in the thread that suggest that this is something someone might say if they don't have a native fluency in English, since my post was ambiguous on that point. But now I'm toeing the line of prescriptivism/descriptivism, so I'll stop talking.
posted by telegraph at 2:35 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by telegraph at 2:35 PM on June 14, 2011
I'm not sure if the narrator in Damon Runyan's 'On Broadway' is supposed to be of any particular ethnic group or just a generic New York hoodlum, but he certainly uses this construction, which means that it goes back at least a reasonable length of time, and is also further evidence that it might be an NYC thing.
posted by piato at 2:39 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by piato at 2:39 PM on June 14, 2011
Best answer: I've heard it, mostly through TV or movies, and I have always associated it with a Yiddish/Jewish character.
posted by thebrokedown at 2:43 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by thebrokedown at 2:43 PM on June 14, 2011
I've definitely heard it. Not sure from whom exactly, but certainly from native English speakers. I think it's just a regionalism.
posted by statolith at 2:51 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by statolith at 2:51 PM on June 14, 2011
FWIW grew up an hour from NYC, both parents were from the region but not the city itself, and I don't recall hearing this construction from them or anyone else in New England. When I first saw your question I assumed it was a construction like "I be X" associated with African American Vernacular English.
If it's a NYC-ism, I suspect it doesn't head far upstate or northeast of the city.
posted by zippy at 3:11 PM on June 14, 2011
If it's a NYC-ism, I suspect it doesn't head far upstate or northeast of the city.
posted by zippy at 3:11 PM on June 14, 2011
Best answer: I've heard it, too, since I moved to NYC ten years ago. I think I have primarily heard it from Orthodox/Hassidic Jews. My partner, who has lived here most of his life, is Jewish, and definitely remembers his grandparents (first generation who also spoke Yiddish) using that turn of phrase.
posted by kimdog at 3:17 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by kimdog at 3:17 PM on June 14, 2011
Best answer: Yes, this is very likely a Yiddishism. I'm finding it hard to locate a language reference to nail this down with certainty, since most online Yiddish stuff is written in Hebrew characters (which I don't read), but I'm pretty sure in Yiddish you say, or can say, "zint ikh bin 12" where German would use the past tense ("seit ich 12 war").
(And please listen to languagehat. It's not helpful to talk about "grammatical errors" or "people who are educated [and therefore] speak normally" here. This is just a slightly different dialect from yours, no more or less "normal" or correct.)
posted by RogerB at 3:27 PM on June 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
(And please listen to languagehat. It's not helpful to talk about "grammatical errors" or "people who are educated [and therefore] speak normally" here. This is just a slightly different dialect from yours, no more or less "normal" or correct.)
posted by RogerB at 3:27 PM on June 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm no expert on Yiddish, but it does seem like an artifact of germanic word order in English. Like you'd say in German, "Ich habe gearbeitet, seit ich zwölf war" :: "I've worked, since I twelve was"
posted by Hlewagast at 3:29 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by Hlewagast at 3:29 PM on June 14, 2011
I've heard it before in Chicago and think it is an Eastern European thing.
posted by marimeko at 3:38 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by marimeko at 3:38 PM on June 14, 2011
How long have you been twelve, grobstein?
I've heard it a few times, but only in NYC, and only from speakers of an apparently Jewish persuasion.
posted by rokusan at 3:39 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've heard it a few times, but only in NYC, and only from speakers of an apparently Jewish persuasion.
posted by rokusan at 3:39 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
i have heard this, but only from new yorkers/new jerseyans. it drives me bonkers.
posted by violetk at 3:44 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by violetk at 3:44 PM on June 14, 2011
I've a native New Englander now living on Long Island, and I've never heard this.
posted by pemberkins at 3:49 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by pemberkins at 3:49 PM on June 14, 2011
I've heard this in a very thick mitteleuropäisch accent but never in reality, only by the Mr. Kitzel character on Jack Benny.
posted by Rash at 4:06 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by Rash at 4:06 PM on June 14, 2011
I'm sure I've heard similar mistakes before, especially in non-english speaking countries where english is a second language - but even then, only sometimes.
I agree it sounds completely.... awful.
posted by TravellingDen at 5:38 PM on June 14, 2011
I agree it sounds completely.... awful.
posted by TravellingDen at 5:38 PM on June 14, 2011
this doesn't sound 'wrong' to me, but if i were to guess who in my life was saying it, it would be my second generation parents/aunts/uncles, of italian descent -- the first generation NOT to speak italian, but to hear it and a fair amount of english spoken as a second language (as spoken both by italians and other ethnicities). the other side of my family (the other first/second generation americans) have different but analogous tweaks to english.
the whole group is from central new york.
posted by Tandem Affinity at 5:48 PM on June 14, 2011
the whole group is from central new york.
posted by Tandem Affinity at 5:48 PM on June 14, 2011
Seems like you've got a quorum here, but I'll just pipe in to say I've heard this from native New Yorkers but nowhere else.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:00 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 6:00 PM on June 14, 2011
I've heard it too. Possibly also from Midwestern Farmer types.
posted by gjc at 6:26 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by gjc at 6:26 PM on June 14, 2011
I live in New York and don't think I've heard it, but it could be that I haven't noticed it.
I'll agree that it also sounds like a plausible Yiddishism, and that is seems like it could relate to the tendency of New Yorkers to narrate anecdotes from the distant past in the present tense. I can definitely hear someone saying, "And then she asks, what do you know from blowjobs? Blowjobs?! I been suckin' cock since I'm twelve, yanno?"
Either way, it certainly isn't a "thing" as much as On Line is a thing, or Fugghedaboudit is a thing.
posted by Sara C. at 6:29 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'll agree that it also sounds like a plausible Yiddishism, and that is seems like it could relate to the tendency of New Yorkers to narrate anecdotes from the distant past in the present tense. I can definitely hear someone saying, "And then she asks, what do you know from blowjobs? Blowjobs?! I been suckin' cock since I'm twelve, yanno?"
Either way, it certainly isn't a "thing" as much as On Line is a thing, or Fugghedaboudit is a thing.
posted by Sara C. at 6:29 PM on June 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have absolutely heard this on the east coast. Not like a million times, but definitely at least a couple of times a year for the last decade. Since I grew up on the west coast (where I never heard it), it always stands out to me. My wife, who grew up here, does not recall having noticed it (and assures me she'd never ever say it).
posted by willpie at 7:30 PM on June 14, 2011
posted by willpie at 7:30 PM on June 14, 2011
Best answer: Google turns up the following examples, among others:
"I've been building websites since I'm 14, now 23."
[no other biographical info given]
"Yep that’s right, I’ve been celebrating my half birthday since I’m little. My mom would always get me and my sister a cupcake."
[blog indicates she's young, probably Jewish, or at least connected to Jewish community]
"I've been reading Millay since I'm fourteen years old and I'm still (or finally) finding new meanings everywhere in her work."
[speaker looks like he runs a business in MA]
"I’m proud to be an iOS programmer. Part because I’ve been using Macs since I’m 6, part because it’s the most elegant OS right now."
[in France; possibly non-native English speaker; could be classed as an error]
"this is not a phase, haha i've been taking pictures since i'm 10."
[now 14, female]
"I'm CUBANA and Im telling you. if you have the money to buy it then THEY WILL SELL IT to you. I've been clubbing since I'm 13 .Hahaha my friend smokes since 16."
[no other info; possibly non-native English speaker]
"I've been blogging since I'm twelve. Blogging is my passion, now and forever."
[in Singapore; possibly non-native English speaker]
"I've been playing piano since I'm 8-9 :D"
[no biographical info]
"I've been acting since I'm 15, doing independent films and now we have all of these women directors who are being nominated and their films are being shown and put across this audience"
[actress Rosario Dawson, in an interview]
"We women look at Playgirl (naked men), we masturbate. I've been masturbating since I'm 5 yrs. old and still do(a couple of times a day).Why does society tell us women it's wrong to do and we shouldn't admit it? It is normal. We have sex drives too!"
[no info]
Also this post by somebody whose question is very much like yours:
Question:
My friend from Brooklyn says things like “I’ve been eating pizza since I’m 5.” I’ve also heard this “since I’m” usage on “Sex and the City” and “Howard Stern.” Now I seem to hear it from anyone raised in New York City. What’s up with this?
Part of answer given (I can't vouch for accuracy):
Some language scholars have suggested that a German influence may sometimes be at work here.
In a 1935 article in the journal American Speech, George G. Struble reported a similar regional usage among the so-called Pennsylvania Dutch, who often use “since I’m” in place of “since I’ve been.”
The Pennsylvania Dutch, by the way, aren’t actually of Dutch origin; they’re descendants of Germans who immigrated in Colonial times.
Such speakers, Struble found, commonly use sentences like “This is the first time it’s happened since I’m here.”
Another scholar, R. Whitney Tucker, wrote in 1934 in the journal Language that the “Pennsylvania Dutch are quite unable to grasp the tense-system of the English verb.”
“Action begun in the past but continuing in the present requires in German the present tense, in English the perfect or perfect ‘progressive,’ ” he added. “The Dutch often follow the German usage: the first time since I’m here, instead of since I’ve been here.”
Whether German-influenced or not, the use of “since I’m” instead of “since I’ve been” (or “since I was”) isn’t unusual in the eastern US. However, I don’t recall hearing it in the Midwest, where I grew up.
posted by jef at 7:32 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
"I've been building websites since I'm 14, now 23."
[no other biographical info given]
"Yep that’s right, I’ve been celebrating my half birthday since I’m little. My mom would always get me and my sister a cupcake."
[blog indicates she's young, probably Jewish, or at least connected to Jewish community]
"I've been reading Millay since I'm fourteen years old and I'm still (or finally) finding new meanings everywhere in her work."
[speaker looks like he runs a business in MA]
"I’m proud to be an iOS programmer. Part because I’ve been using Macs since I’m 6, part because it’s the most elegant OS right now."
[in France; possibly non-native English speaker; could be classed as an error]
"this is not a phase, haha i've been taking pictures since i'm 10."
[now 14, female]
"I'm CUBANA and Im telling you. if you have the money to buy it then THEY WILL SELL IT to you. I've been clubbing since I'm 13 .Hahaha my friend smokes since 16."
[no other info; possibly non-native English speaker]
"I've been blogging since I'm twelve. Blogging is my passion, now and forever."
[in Singapore; possibly non-native English speaker]
"I've been playing piano since I'm 8-9 :D"
[no biographical info]
"I've been acting since I'm 15, doing independent films and now we have all of these women directors who are being nominated and their films are being shown and put across this audience"
[actress Rosario Dawson, in an interview]
"We women look at Playgirl (naked men), we masturbate. I've been masturbating since I'm 5 yrs. old and still do(a couple of times a day).Why does society tell us women it's wrong to do and we shouldn't admit it? It is normal. We have sex drives too!"
[no info]
Also this post by somebody whose question is very much like yours:
Question:
My friend from Brooklyn says things like “I’ve been eating pizza since I’m 5.” I’ve also heard this “since I’m” usage on “Sex and the City” and “Howard Stern.” Now I seem to hear it from anyone raised in New York City. What’s up with this?
Part of answer given (I can't vouch for accuracy):
Some language scholars have suggested that a German influence may sometimes be at work here.
In a 1935 article in the journal American Speech, George G. Struble reported a similar regional usage among the so-called Pennsylvania Dutch, who often use “since I’m” in place of “since I’ve been.”
The Pennsylvania Dutch, by the way, aren’t actually of Dutch origin; they’re descendants of Germans who immigrated in Colonial times.
Such speakers, Struble found, commonly use sentences like “This is the first time it’s happened since I’m here.”
Another scholar, R. Whitney Tucker, wrote in 1934 in the journal Language that the “Pennsylvania Dutch are quite unable to grasp the tense-system of the English verb.”
“Action begun in the past but continuing in the present requires in German the present tense, in English the perfect or perfect ‘progressive,’ ” he added. “The Dutch often follow the German usage: the first time since I’m here, instead of since I’ve been here.”
Whether German-influenced or not, the use of “since I’m” instead of “since I’ve been” (or “since I was”) isn’t unusual in the eastern US. However, I don’t recall hearing it in the Midwest, where I grew up.
posted by jef at 7:32 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
This is genuinely fascinating, because when I read your question I thought, I never heard this. Who says this? It wasn't until I read other answers that I realized, I do.
I was raised in Brooklyn by Yiddish speakers and think this may be an example of unconscious code-switching or context-specific usage. By this I mean I only use it, or have heard it used, when the speaker is making a point about expertise, or long or hard-won experience. If someone asked "How long have you been riding a bike?" I'd say something like "I've been riding since I was 8." But if I wiped out after doing something spectacularly clumsy and someone said "Dang, have you ever ridden a bike before?" I'd probably reply "Are you kidding? Since I'm 8, I've been riding!" This also seems to be the case for most of the quoted usages here from Jewish-origin speakers, a la Weintraub.
Thanks for asking this question; finding a thread of the language of people I loved so much in mine makes me happy.
posted by melissa may at 11:50 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
I was raised in Brooklyn by Yiddish speakers and think this may be an example of unconscious code-switching or context-specific usage. By this I mean I only use it, or have heard it used, when the speaker is making a point about expertise, or long or hard-won experience. If someone asked "How long have you been riding a bike?" I'd say something like "I've been riding since I was 8." But if I wiped out after doing something spectacularly clumsy and someone said "Dang, have you ever ridden a bike before?" I'd probably reply "Are you kidding? Since I'm 8, I've been riding!" This also seems to be the case for most of the quoted usages here from Jewish-origin speakers, a la Weintraub.
Thanks for asking this question; finding a thread of the language of people I loved so much in mine makes me happy.
posted by melissa may at 11:50 PM on June 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
From what I know of German (which is closely related to Yiddish), and after bit of googling, it appears you can say either "seit ich zwölf war" (since I was twelve) or "seit ich zwölf bin" (since I am twelve), although the latter is slightly more popular. And if you're referring to something other than age, e.g. "seit ich verheiratet bin" (since I am married), people overwhelmingly use 'am' - using 'was' implies that they are no longer married.
So we get down to the quasi-linguistical issue of: am I still twelve, now that I am twenty-three? If you follow the French/German example, then yes, you are: it's like having twenty-three apples. You still have twelve apples, but you ALSO have more.
(FWIW, I live in Australia and have never heard "since I am twelve".)
posted by lovedbymarylane at 12:15 AM on June 15, 2011
So we get down to the quasi-linguistical issue of: am I still twelve, now that I am twenty-three? If you follow the French/German example, then yes, you are: it's like having twenty-three apples. You still have twelve apples, but you ALSO have more.
(FWIW, I live in Australia and have never heard "since I am twelve".)
posted by lovedbymarylane at 12:15 AM on June 15, 2011
Looking through online articles of the Yiddish paper 'The Forward', I can find this construction used in regard to time spent in a place:
...זינט איך בין אין ניו-יאָרק, האָבן מיך שוין עטלעכע מענטשן געפֿרעגט
[="Since I'm in New York, several people have asked me...]
http://yiddish.forward.com/node/1163
...זינט איך בין דאָ אין פֿלאָרידע איז מײַן שרײַבקראַפֿט אַנטדרימלט געוואָרן
[=Since I'm here in Folrida, my writing has dozed off...]
http://yiddish.forward.com/taxonomy/term/387
I don't know much Yiddish and wouldn't know what's idiomatic.
posted by Paquda at 8:57 AM on June 15, 2011
...זינט איך בין אין ניו-יאָרק, האָבן מיך שוין עטלעכע מענטשן געפֿרעגט
[="Since I'm in New York, several people have asked me...]
http://yiddish.forward.com/node/1163
...זינט איך בין דאָ אין פֿלאָרידע איז מײַן שרײַבקראַפֿט אַנטדרימלט געוואָרן
[=Since I'm here in Folrida, my writing has dozed off...]
http://yiddish.forward.com/taxonomy/term/387
I don't know much Yiddish and wouldn't know what's idiomatic.
posted by Paquda at 8:57 AM on June 15, 2011
Response by poster: Wow--a lot of great and fascinating responses--thanks all! I didn't mean to start a debate over whether it was correct or not; I've just always been fascinated by slang, regional dialects, etc. so when I noticed this again recently I thought, "I've just gotta ask the MeFites about this--someone has to know what that's about!" Expectations exceeded!
posted by lovableiago at 9:07 AM on June 15, 2011
posted by lovableiago at 9:07 AM on June 15, 2011
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posted by 2bucksplus at 1:40 PM on June 14, 2011