Prevent dog from hiding under bed
June 5, 2011 2:50 PM Subscribe
My wife & I adopted/rescued a daschund recently who doesn't respond well to men. While we're trying to get the dog accustomed to me, we have problems where the dog will hide under our king-sized bed when my wife is out of town and I cannot lure it out. I've tried positive reinforcement, treats, and trying to grab it and gently guide the dog from its hiding place.
I have never been overly physical with the dog in these efforts and she does not really fear me, which it how I want to keep things. So any behavioral/training tips would be appreciated, but what I'm really interested in are ways to deny the dog access underneath the bed. Things I've contemplated include: buying large, flat plastic storage bins for clothes and placing them so there is no way to get under the bed; and glueing wooden panels to the metal bed frame (I guess these would be base boards or "toe-kicks"). I realize that the dog needs to get acclimated to me and am working on this, but I feel we need a physical solution to keep it from hiding under the bed.
Also, the clearance from the floor to the metal bed frame is 6-7 inches, FYI. Thanks for any helpful suggestions. Jason
I have never been overly physical with the dog in these efforts and she does not really fear me, which it how I want to keep things. So any behavioral/training tips would be appreciated, but what I'm really interested in are ways to deny the dog access underneath the bed. Things I've contemplated include: buying large, flat plastic storage bins for clothes and placing them so there is no way to get under the bed; and glueing wooden panels to the metal bed frame (I guess these would be base boards or "toe-kicks"). I realize that the dog needs to get acclimated to me and am working on this, but I feel we need a physical solution to keep it from hiding under the bed.
Also, the clearance from the floor to the metal bed frame is 6-7 inches, FYI. Thanks for any helpful suggestions. Jason
Before you block off the under bed hiding place, consider setting up a nice crate for your dog. He will still need a "home base" where he can go when he feels scared. Not sure what you mean by "overly" physical. Grabbing your dog, like you said, isn't helping much. It takes a lot of time to earn a dog's trust if it's generalized its fear so much that it's anxious and fearful around all men.
I'm not sure if it's similar, but my dog hated getting her nails clipped. I used to try to muzzle her and hold her down and fight until it got done, but that didn't work out. Instead, I spent a couple of months slowly getting her used to the nail clippers and working up from just one nail a day, then a few, then finally to clipping all of her nails. It took a lot of work, but now she just relaxes and lets me do it and waits until it's over. No bribing the dog with treats, but she gets one at the end anyway!
posted by belau at 3:06 PM on June 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure if it's similar, but my dog hated getting her nails clipped. I used to try to muzzle her and hold her down and fight until it got done, but that didn't work out. Instead, I spent a couple of months slowly getting her used to the nail clippers and working up from just one nail a day, then a few, then finally to clipping all of her nails. It took a lot of work, but now she just relaxes and lets me do it and waits until it's over. No bribing the dog with treats, but she gets one at the end anyway!
posted by belau at 3:06 PM on June 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
As far as behavioral/training tips, I'd make sure that whenever special treats are offered, you get to dole them out, so that the dog doesn't think of you as just the "bad guy" who retrieves him/her from under the bed. I'd also consider using the treats to get him out from under the bed, but I'd leave a trail and try to coax him to follow it away from his shelter, rather than make a dive to grab him the moment he sticks his head out.
By the way, I notice that you don't refer to the dog by name, and in fact use the term "it" rather than he/she when referring to your pet in this AskMe. I just used "he" because it is easier to stick with one gender. It might help you both to bond with each other if you saw the dog as part of the family, though, so I hope you are calling him/her by name at home at least!
Dachsunds are little. If you put clothes in big bins under the bed, that will certainly work to block him from that hiding place, but he may find another in your house. My cats have hidden under beds, in dark closets, behind couches and entertainment centers and even in a cupboard at the vet's office that they were sure the cats could not fit inside! So working on getting your dog to trust you will definitely pay off better in the long run.
posted by misha at 3:07 PM on June 5, 2011
By the way, I notice that you don't refer to the dog by name, and in fact use the term "it" rather than he/she when referring to your pet in this AskMe. I just used "he" because it is easier to stick with one gender. It might help you both to bond with each other if you saw the dog as part of the family, though, so I hope you are calling him/her by name at home at least!
Dachsunds are little. If you put clothes in big bins under the bed, that will certainly work to block him from that hiding place, but he may find another in your house. My cats have hidden under beds, in dark closets, behind couches and entertainment centers and even in a cupboard at the vet's office that they were sure the cats could not fit inside! So working on getting your dog to trust you will definitely pay off better in the long run.
posted by misha at 3:07 PM on June 5, 2011
I adopted a daschund mix, only to learn that they are about the most stubborn dogs in all of dogdom. Storage bins would probably be the best way to go. Or you could just wait it out. At some point (I can't say when), it will just get bored, realize that nothing is going to change, and come out and start building a relationship.
Do know that demanding that a daschund do something will almost certainly result in it doing the opposite. This applies even if the thing you are asking them to do is in their best interest.
(BTW, my dog is currently under the bed. He came out for a bit, but has gone back now.)
posted by Gilbert at 3:08 PM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Do know that demanding that a daschund do something will almost certainly result in it doing the opposite. This applies even if the thing you are asking them to do is in their best interest.
(BTW, my dog is currently under the bed. He came out for a bit, but has gone back now.)
posted by Gilbert at 3:08 PM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
When I had to do this to keep a sick kitty from hiding under the bed, I pushed it into the corner of the room (that covered 2 sides) and then stacked heavy books and under-bed boxes around the rest of it. It's not decorative, but it's temporary.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 3:10 PM on June 5, 2011
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 3:10 PM on June 5, 2011
My chihuahua used to go under the couch to hide whenever he got something he wasn't supposed to have - it was a game to him. It was a little too low for bins, so we rigged up something simple by cutting strips of cardboard to the exact height of the under-couch area and wedging them in there. The good news it that once he was fully grown he didn't fit quite as well and lost interest, so we only had to do this for the first year.
posted by ella wren at 3:20 PM on June 5, 2011
posted by ella wren at 3:20 PM on June 5, 2011
close the door
posted by virginia_clemm at 3:25 PM on June 5, 2011
posted by virginia_clemm at 3:25 PM on June 5, 2011
Does your dog have a crate to go to as her safe space instead? Putting a blanket over the crate might help, if she wants a place to hide and doesn't have one. You can put a worn article of your wife's clothing in there if it's a separation anxiety thing; and when she wants to go under the bed, show her that the crate is the appropriate place, and reward her for using it. Establishing a restriction that under the bed is not okay, and that the crate is a good place to go will help with other areas in her adaptation to your home, especially if she has other anxieties with the transition. And then a routine that keeps her out of the bedroom (or only in the crate with the door open if that's in the bedroom. Can you just shut the door?
And, I'm a big fan, with new dogs and of dogs being trained, of keeping them on a lead so that you can always command/correct them until they're more reliably responding. Especially if she doesn't respond to a "Come" command from you (which is important for her safety, if she were to get out and run into the street and under a car or something). Yes, bins or panels might work - but it seems she doesn't need prevention, she needs to know more of what she should be doing, which is listening and responding to you - be it a "Down, Stay" when you're not interacting with her or just knowing her quiet spot to relax in.
It is also, entirely possible, that in your wife's absence, if she's the primary caregiver, that the dog is telling you that you're not her boss. Perhaps you should be the one in charge of resources (no free-feeding, you put the food down and take it away after a bit) and training (and play) and rewards for learning commands even when the missus is around, so that the dog understands without even having to use commands and stuff that you're not only a good guy, but if she wants food, walkies and fun: You're the head honcho. That's not mean - dogs don't care whether they're the boss, they just want to know who is. And if you don't assume that position in the household pecking order, the dog will take it.
(on preview, what others have said, and me not knowing your plan or routine is already for this dog)
posted by peagood at 3:34 PM on June 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
And, I'm a big fan, with new dogs and of dogs being trained, of keeping them on a lead so that you can always command/correct them until they're more reliably responding. Especially if she doesn't respond to a "Come" command from you (which is important for her safety, if she were to get out and run into the street and under a car or something). Yes, bins or panels might work - but it seems she doesn't need prevention, she needs to know more of what she should be doing, which is listening and responding to you - be it a "Down, Stay" when you're not interacting with her or just knowing her quiet spot to relax in.
It is also, entirely possible, that in your wife's absence, if she's the primary caregiver, that the dog is telling you that you're not her boss. Perhaps you should be the one in charge of resources (no free-feeding, you put the food down and take it away after a bit) and training (and play) and rewards for learning commands even when the missus is around, so that the dog understands without even having to use commands and stuff that you're not only a good guy, but if she wants food, walkies and fun: You're the head honcho. That's not mean - dogs don't care whether they're the boss, they just want to know who is. And if you don't assume that position in the household pecking order, the dog will take it.
(on preview, what others have said, and me not knowing your plan or routine is already for this dog)
posted by peagood at 3:34 PM on June 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
I grew up with dachshunds and they always went under the bed when it thundered, or anytime they were stressed. I think dachshunds just feel more secure with a low ceiling. So if you make under the bed inaccessible, make sure there is somewhere else that the dig can feel secure.
posted by COD at 4:24 PM on June 5, 2011
posted by COD at 4:24 PM on June 5, 2011
You said you've tried "treats" -- but have you tried peanut butter? I would be pretty damn impressed with the willpower of any dachshund able to resist going anywhere you want if you lured it with peanut butter.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:35 PM on June 5, 2011
posted by Jacqueline at 4:35 PM on June 5, 2011
Response by poster: We already have a crate that we use during the night and when we're at work. Also, we try to create a balance via friends that also have dogs so we don't crate the dog at night and also 8-9 hours while at work for more than 1-2 days in a row. And we give the dog treats when we put her in the crate to create some form of positive reinforcement.
And thanks for the brilliant "keep the door closed" idea. I've been doing that for the past 3 months and asked for help to move beyond that stage.
Thanks for the great ideas and please share any others.
posted by jingo74 at 4:51 PM on June 5, 2011
And thanks for the brilliant "keep the door closed" idea. I've been doing that for the past 3 months and asked for help to move beyond that stage.
Thanks for the great ideas and please share any others.
posted by jingo74 at 4:51 PM on June 5, 2011
The dog needs a safe place. If you don't want that to be the bed, fine, but to deny a pet with a rescue past a safe place is IMHO cruel.
FWIW we have a rescue with severe PTSD and despite extensive efforts to rehabilitate her, she she is still terrified of men. Including my husband. Her basic attitude towards him can be summarised as "Is Daddy dead yet?" It was years before she'd take food from his hand, and she will still only do it when I'm next to her. For the first three years, when I went out of town she would hunger strike. She still persists in pretending he isn't there when I am gone and will not face or interact with him at all until it's time to go to bed, when she climbs into the bed and then pretends he's not there.
The tactic that works best (although he loves the dog and sucks at it) is ignoring the dog. The keener you are the more freaked out she gets. Be consistant, be predictable, and let her warm to you on her own schedule. Which could be never.
My husband gets to temperment test and choose the next dog.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:59 PM on June 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
FWIW we have a rescue with severe PTSD and despite extensive efforts to rehabilitate her, she she is still terrified of men. Including my husband. Her basic attitude towards him can be summarised as "Is Daddy dead yet?" It was years before she'd take food from his hand, and she will still only do it when I'm next to her. For the first three years, when I went out of town she would hunger strike. She still persists in pretending he isn't there when I am gone and will not face or interact with him at all until it's time to go to bed, when she climbs into the bed and then pretends he's not there.
The tactic that works best (although he loves the dog and sucks at it) is ignoring the dog. The keener you are the more freaked out she gets. Be consistant, be predictable, and let her warm to you on her own schedule. Which could be never.
My husband gets to temperment test and choose the next dog.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:59 PM on June 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you are, in fact, doing well with this rescue. You're providing her with a crate so she does have a place to go, and you're trying to make sure that she doesn't stay under the bed long enough to injure herself. (I have had a fearful foster dog who stayed under the bed more than 24 hours when I tried to wait him out. Sometimes, you just can't.) Blocking off the sides sounds like a good idea, and you've been given some good advice on that. Probably even just cardboard boxes in the right shape weighted down with something would work. Cardboard boxes can be cut down and refolded so they're exactly the size you need.
With fearful rescues who needed time to get over it, we gave them an open place where they could hide--for some reason they often picked the master bathroom, which was odd in that it was so close to the people of whom they were so afraid, but fine. We'd let them have constant access to it except when we removed them gently to go potty outside. We gave them food, toys, and chewies, gave them treats for being interested in people, and otherwise ignored them. After a period of time (days, weeks, sometimes months) they would start leaving their safe place on their own, for a few moments. Then minutes. Then hours. They got more treats any time I spotted them out of their hideyhole. Eventually they'd be calm enough that they could leave long enough to eat dinner with the other dogs, and their food and water was removed from the hideyhole and they accessed these as the other dogs did, in their normal places.
At about this point I could start working with them on tricks, which made the single biggest difference in all the rescues I rehabbed. In part, their fear of people came from not knowing what people wanted (along with neglect, mistreatment, and so on). Once they worked out that people may ask them to do something...and then they do it...and then they get a reward!... it made a little light bulb go on in their doggy brains. The performance/reward or lack of performance/correction made more enormous strides in progress with these fearful dogs than any other single activity. It helped them figure out how to relate to people, it helped them figure out how to respond to people, it helped them figure out that people can be kind and rewarding as well as scary.
Until they were out of the hideyhole on their own, they were too frozen with fear to respond to trick training. But once they were comfortable being in the same room with a person without dashing to hide, they could concentrate enough to make it work.
Obviously, since you say this dog responds differently to men than women, you're not quite so far back as a dog who is entirely afraid of people, at all. Some of this may not apply, some might apply but not the way it would if the dog were afraid of everyone. But in the meantime, perhaps it will help to know that what you're doing sounds like the right thing to do.
~ ~ ~
It sounds like your dog, for some reason, is not comfortable in her crate as a hideyhole. Perhaps it would help to make it more like under the bed: can you stick something in the crate to make the roof seem lower, more like her under-the-bed hideaway? Not know what you've got for her, maybe the crate is too small, too big, too open, too closed, too light, too dark. Maybe it would help to place it where she will naturally go once she can't get under the bed.
Depending on how fearful she is, she might try to squeeze in under the bed despite the blocks. She may get stuck or it may be hard to find her since you wouldn't be looking for her there. If you can physically connect your blocks as much as possible, it will probably help. Here again cardboard boxes might help; at each end of each box, you could leave one flap loose, then tape that firmly to the next box down.
Good luck; a fearful dog is a difficult rehab, but they can turn out really wonderful.
posted by galadriel at 5:36 PM on June 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
With fearful rescues who needed time to get over it, we gave them an open place where they could hide--for some reason they often picked the master bathroom, which was odd in that it was so close to the people of whom they were so afraid, but fine. We'd let them have constant access to it except when we removed them gently to go potty outside. We gave them food, toys, and chewies, gave them treats for being interested in people, and otherwise ignored them. After a period of time (days, weeks, sometimes months) they would start leaving their safe place on their own, for a few moments. Then minutes. Then hours. They got more treats any time I spotted them out of their hideyhole. Eventually they'd be calm enough that they could leave long enough to eat dinner with the other dogs, and their food and water was removed from the hideyhole and they accessed these as the other dogs did, in their normal places.
At about this point I could start working with them on tricks, which made the single biggest difference in all the rescues I rehabbed. In part, their fear of people came from not knowing what people wanted (along with neglect, mistreatment, and so on). Once they worked out that people may ask them to do something...and then they do it...and then they get a reward!... it made a little light bulb go on in their doggy brains. The performance/reward or lack of performance/correction made more enormous strides in progress with these fearful dogs than any other single activity. It helped them figure out how to relate to people, it helped them figure out how to respond to people, it helped them figure out that people can be kind and rewarding as well as scary.
Until they were out of the hideyhole on their own, they were too frozen with fear to respond to trick training. But once they were comfortable being in the same room with a person without dashing to hide, they could concentrate enough to make it work.
Obviously, since you say this dog responds differently to men than women, you're not quite so far back as a dog who is entirely afraid of people, at all. Some of this may not apply, some might apply but not the way it would if the dog were afraid of everyone. But in the meantime, perhaps it will help to know that what you're doing sounds like the right thing to do.
~ ~ ~
It sounds like your dog, for some reason, is not comfortable in her crate as a hideyhole. Perhaps it would help to make it more like under the bed: can you stick something in the crate to make the roof seem lower, more like her under-the-bed hideaway? Not know what you've got for her, maybe the crate is too small, too big, too open, too closed, too light, too dark. Maybe it would help to place it where she will naturally go once she can't get under the bed.
Depending on how fearful she is, she might try to squeeze in under the bed despite the blocks. She may get stuck or it may be hard to find her since you wouldn't be looking for her there. If you can physically connect your blocks as much as possible, it will probably help. Here again cardboard boxes might help; at each end of each box, you could leave one flap loose, then tape that firmly to the next box down.
Good luck; a fearful dog is a difficult rehab, but they can turn out really wonderful.
posted by galadriel at 5:36 PM on June 5, 2011 [3 favorites]
My advice would be to completely ignore her. (Assuming she is house broken.) When she wants to eat or poop, she will come out and probably go near the food bowl. Then she will probably run away when you go to fill it. But, she will see that you too are a food provider to her and she will eventually warm up to you.
Also, maybe do things around the house that make her curious. If you see her lurking, just make eye contact, smile and then continue going about your business.
(If this doesn't work, you might have to play mind games. Go in, ask her to come, she won't, ask her again, she won't again. But leave a little food and let her see you leave it. Then go away and let her eat it in peace.)
She is scared and doesn't trust you. Help her to not be scared and begin to trust you. Once a dog trusts you, you are golden.
posted by gjc at 5:58 PM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, maybe do things around the house that make her curious. If you see her lurking, just make eye contact, smile and then continue going about your business.
(If this doesn't work, you might have to play mind games. Go in, ask her to come, she won't, ask her again, she won't again. But leave a little food and let her see you leave it. Then go away and let her eat it in peace.)
She is scared and doesn't trust you. Help her to not be scared and begin to trust you. Once a dog trusts you, you are golden.
posted by gjc at 5:58 PM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
How big is your crate? It should be sized for a smaller dog, so she'll feel cozy. I agree with galadriel about training and teaching tricks as well as fun walkies. Shut all the bedroom doors and sit down on the floor with her on her leash to watch TV or read (or if you let her on the couch, do that--might be a nice treat for her to sit on a soft couch with her 'guy.') Just be quiet for 10 minutes, don't attempt to make eye contact, talk to her, or pet her. After ten min., nonchalantly unsnap her lead while holding a treat flat in your hand. Let her take the treat on her terms and leave if she wants, but let her know you have a couple other treats held back. Hopefully, you'll be able to progress to where she'll sit next to you after you unclip the leash in anticipation of something good. Graduate to skritches alternating with treats.
Go ahead and put baseboards up around the bed, but at the same time, honor her wish to have a hidey-hole. Make her a little flat roofed dog house, about 24x24 inches and 6-7 inches high--the same height as the bed. Find some nice thick carpet for the top, or attach a cushion, so your pup can either hide, or come out and lie down in cozy comfort. Put it in your bedroom, if that's the place she loves to be.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:58 PM on June 5, 2011
Go ahead and put baseboards up around the bed, but at the same time, honor her wish to have a hidey-hole. Make her a little flat roofed dog house, about 24x24 inches and 6-7 inches high--the same height as the bed. Find some nice thick carpet for the top, or attach a cushion, so your pup can either hide, or come out and lie down in cozy comfort. Put it in your bedroom, if that's the place she loves to be.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:58 PM on June 5, 2011
Going with BlueHorse's idea, you could flip an opaque storage tub upside down and cut a door in it to make a little dachsie-house.
Dachshunds are extremely stubborn little animals, but also very loving and affectionate. Good luck.
posted by Ostara at 9:39 PM on June 5, 2011
Dachshunds are extremely stubborn little animals, but also very loving and affectionate. Good luck.
posted by Ostara at 9:39 PM on June 5, 2011
Just wanted to clarify- the dog is allowed in the crate when the door is open, yes? It should be a save, available space and then you close the door of the crate as needed.
posted by titanium_geek at 10:32 PM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by titanium_geek at 10:32 PM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
gah. *safe* space, door of crate meant when ever door is used.
posted by titanium_geek at 10:32 PM on June 5, 2011
posted by titanium_geek at 10:32 PM on June 5, 2011
If a cat did this, we'd leave them under the bed. I see no reason why the dog shouldn't get to remain under the bed if this is where it feels safe.
If your dog has a problem with men and you, a male, are constantly badgering it, as well as physically removing it from a safe spot...you're not going to make much headway with the dog. You need to let go of trying to control the dog's response to you and let it make the first moves towards you.
The dog may well have accidents under there but in general they're not terribly keen on soiling where they sleep.
My daschund doesn't care to interact with other dogs or people when we're out walking. And I don't force him to because it's what he "should" do.
If you go with blocking access to under the bed by whatever means, I suggest you DO NOT let the dog watch you doing it.
posted by noxetlux at 7:37 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
If your dog has a problem with men and you, a male, are constantly badgering it, as well as physically removing it from a safe spot...you're not going to make much headway with the dog. You need to let go of trying to control the dog's response to you and let it make the first moves towards you.
The dog may well have accidents under there but in general they're not terribly keen on soiling where they sleep.
My daschund doesn't care to interact with other dogs or people when we're out walking. And I don't force him to because it's what he "should" do.
If you go with blocking access to under the bed by whatever means, I suggest you DO NOT let the dog watch you doing it.
posted by noxetlux at 7:37 AM on June 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
You could trying spraying under there with a non-toxic citronella-based keep-away spray; I have something that repels both cats and dogs, though I can't give you a brand, because mine is German, I think. You might want to put it on an old blanket and spread the blanket under the bed. (I think the efficacy is going to vary by dog; my dog really, really hates citronella, though I didn't get it for her -- I got for neighborhood cats that were getting into/onto various things, but my dog completely avoids anyplace I've sprayed it).
As others have said, make sure her crate is comfy and safe-feeling for her. And also, absolutely be the person who dispenses the food! That's big.
Another thing: humans have a tendency to look other people, and animals, in the eye to show that they are trustworthy, but to dogs this is an aggressive posture. If you notice that while looking at your dog she turns her eyes away, that doesn't mean she doesn't like you, that means she's trying to say that she isn't challenging you or considering any kind of aggressive action (likewise, when you do see a dog staring you right in the eye, get worried). So it's best not to try to look reassuringly into her eyes, because that's just going to freak her out a little bit.
Also hovering-over can be a scary/aggressive thing for dogs. If I hug my dog from the back (doggy-style!) she's a lot more comfortable than if I hug her head-on. Dogs who are trying to assure each other that they have no intention of attacking will approach from the side, not head on. Dogs who are trying to dominate other dogs will often try to put their head (chin area) on top of the other dog's head – so something that seems like sweet nuzzling to us can seem a sign of domination to a dog.
Once your dog knows and trusts you, she won't be afraid of things like this (she'll just view you as a harmless eccentric), but in the beginning if you are trying to show you aren't a threat, you might want to try to avoid some of these aggressive postures.
Our dog was afraid of my husband at first, and now she's most shameless daddy's girl who ever breathed a doggy breath, so be patient! Be the one who feeds her; be the one who walks her if she loves walks, or plays fetch or tug or whatever it is she likes, if she'll participate, or be the one to give her her favorite toy or chewie. Toss a treat to her when she's relaxed and in the same room, and over time begin to toss them closer and closer to you. Good luck!
posted by taz at 9:07 AM on June 6, 2011
As others have said, make sure her crate is comfy and safe-feeling for her. And also, absolutely be the person who dispenses the food! That's big.
Another thing: humans have a tendency to look other people, and animals, in the eye to show that they are trustworthy, but to dogs this is an aggressive posture. If you notice that while looking at your dog she turns her eyes away, that doesn't mean she doesn't like you, that means she's trying to say that she isn't challenging you or considering any kind of aggressive action (likewise, when you do see a dog staring you right in the eye, get worried). So it's best not to try to look reassuringly into her eyes, because that's just going to freak her out a little bit.
Also hovering-over can be a scary/aggressive thing for dogs. If I hug my dog from the back (doggy-style!) she's a lot more comfortable than if I hug her head-on. Dogs who are trying to assure each other that they have no intention of attacking will approach from the side, not head on. Dogs who are trying to dominate other dogs will often try to put their head (chin area) on top of the other dog's head – so something that seems like sweet nuzzling to us can seem a sign of domination to a dog.
Once your dog knows and trusts you, she won't be afraid of things like this (she'll just view you as a harmless eccentric), but in the beginning if you are trying to show you aren't a threat, you might want to try to avoid some of these aggressive postures.
Our dog was afraid of my husband at first, and now she's most shameless daddy's girl who ever breathed a doggy breath, so be patient! Be the one who feeds her; be the one who walks her if she loves walks, or plays fetch or tug or whatever it is she likes, if she'll participate, or be the one to give her her favorite toy or chewie. Toss a treat to her when she's relaxed and in the same room, and over time begin to toss them closer and closer to you. Good luck!
posted by taz at 9:07 AM on June 6, 2011
Oh, also? If you are tugging her by the collar to get her out from under the bed, I wouldn't.
The only time I ever grab my dog by the collar is when it's actually a dangerous situation (she's off-leash, on one of our sleepy residential streets; I see a car coming, and she's too interested in her smellfest to respond to my "come!" fast enough -- that sort of thing).
My goal is zero grabbing-by-the-collar. She has to have a collar for ID and for attaching the lead, and she wears hers all the time, because what if she got out of the front gate? But I never use her collar to pull or drag her anywhere. If she's reluctant, I attach the leash to the collar in the normal way and lead her where I need to take her. I think grabbing by the collar is brutal and terrifying. In the exceedingly few cases where I have to physically pull her, I take her from under her two front legs.
posted by taz at 9:52 AM on June 6, 2011
The only time I ever grab my dog by the collar is when it's actually a dangerous situation (she's off-leash, on one of our sleepy residential streets; I see a car coming, and she's too interested in her smellfest to respond to my "come!" fast enough -- that sort of thing).
My goal is zero grabbing-by-the-collar. She has to have a collar for ID and for attaching the lead, and she wears hers all the time, because what if she got out of the front gate? But I never use her collar to pull or drag her anywhere. If she's reluctant, I attach the leash to the collar in the normal way and lead her where I need to take her. I think grabbing by the collar is brutal and terrifying. In the exceedingly few cases where I have to physically pull her, I take her from under her two front legs.
posted by taz at 9:52 AM on June 6, 2011
taz: "Another thing: humans have a tendency to look other people, and animals, in the eye to show that they are trustworthy, but to dogs this is an aggressive posture."
Funny enough, I didn't find this to be entirely accurate. The fearful dogs would look away, certainly, but I always knew they'd turned a significant corner in their rehab when they'd start being willing to make eye contact. They weren't being challenging or aggressive, they were just finally willing to *look* into my eyes when I was working with them.
If you call a more normal dog, get their attention, where do they look? Your face, not your hands, not your body, not away. They look at your face, into your eyes. While you're asking them to do tricks, when you're holding a toy or treat they want, they continue to look at your face. When a fearful dog can do this, they've gained a lot of confidence.
I did find it helped, at first, with the fearful dogs to *completely* ignore them. Often they interpreted any attention at all as negative. So aside from necessary handling to make sure they were sanitary and healthy (no, people, it's never okay to leave a dog somewhere for so long that they poop/pee themselves, no matter how scared they are), I didn't look directly at them. Once they started leaving the hideyhole, I'd generally see them looking at me from time to time, and would start responding by making quick eye contact. And move on from there.
posted by galadriel at 10:01 AM on June 6, 2011
Funny enough, I didn't find this to be entirely accurate. The fearful dogs would look away, certainly, but I always knew they'd turned a significant corner in their rehab when they'd start being willing to make eye contact. They weren't being challenging or aggressive, they were just finally willing to *look* into my eyes when I was working with them.
If you call a more normal dog, get their attention, where do they look? Your face, not your hands, not your body, not away. They look at your face, into your eyes. While you're asking them to do tricks, when you're holding a toy or treat they want, they continue to look at your face. When a fearful dog can do this, they've gained a lot of confidence.
I did find it helped, at first, with the fearful dogs to *completely* ignore them. Often they interpreted any attention at all as negative. So aside from necessary handling to make sure they were sanitary and healthy (no, people, it's never okay to leave a dog somewhere for so long that they poop/pee themselves, no matter how scared they are), I didn't look directly at them. Once they started leaving the hideyhole, I'd generally see them looking at me from time to time, and would start responding by making quick eye contact. And move on from there.
posted by galadriel at 10:01 AM on June 6, 2011
You're right, galadriel, and I apologize for my short-hand there. Most trusting dogs will look you in the face, definitely; they're looking for your cue, and scouring your face for any expression. Some fascinating studies have shown that dogs will follow their owner's eye cues to find treats, while wolves, even if they were raised by a loving human from birth, never will.
So dogs will certainly look at your eyes to get information, and my dog definitely looks at my face/eyes, but she avoids a straight eye-to-eye thing. I don't really know how to describe it, but most people have had the same experience with a person who is looking/involved, versus a person who is staring/aggressive. You can look a dog in the eyes without seeming aggressive, but for an already frightened or insecure dog, it might not be reassuring. With an already suspicious or aggressive dog, it might not be wise. If you want to makes friends with a new dog, I'd still say avoid staring them in the eye.
posted by taz at 11:37 AM on June 6, 2011
So dogs will certainly look at your eyes to get information, and my dog definitely looks at my face/eyes, but she avoids a straight eye-to-eye thing. I don't really know how to describe it, but most people have had the same experience with a person who is looking/involved, versus a person who is staring/aggressive. You can look a dog in the eyes without seeming aggressive, but for an already frightened or insecure dog, it might not be reassuring. With an already suspicious or aggressive dog, it might not be wise. If you want to makes friends with a new dog, I'd still say avoid staring them in the eye.
posted by taz at 11:37 AM on June 6, 2011
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posted by brainmouse at 2:56 PM on June 5, 2011