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June 4, 2011 5:13 PM   Subscribe

Why, when collecting anonymous monitoring data, do institutions ask for ethnicity, and not other cultural and social indicators?

In general terms, I have no issue with people in answering this question, or with it being asked. I am more interested in it's usefulness and whether it is/can be/should be used as a barometer of mobility, discrimination, or something I haven't thought of. I am particularly interested in the responses of social researchers, or other people who deal with this in their line of work.

My girlfriend's applying to a PhD, and the form required her to state her ethnicity. I raised that I have always had a issue with this question, which led to a much longer discussion about the whole matter.

As mentioned, I find the ethnicity question uncomfortable. This started in my early teens, as it reminded me of ethnic discrimination that I had been subject to, and I later failed to see the use of it. I understand that it can be useful internally in order to prevent discrimination (as noted by delmoi here), but it seems to me to be much less useful an indicator of social change than cultural and social backgrounds.

Here's the way I see it: For instance, you might have two Asian students applying. One sees himself as no different from the kids he grew up with, and comes from a wealthy family who live in a leafy suburb. The other strongly identifies with his parents cultural heritage, comes from a poorer home, and is the first in his family to go to university. Obviously these are convenient stereotypes, but across the spectrum of individuals they don't seem remotely similar apart from the colour of their skin.
posted by Magnakai to Society & Culture (13 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
I am not really equipped to speak to why it's asked in the context of anonymous data collection (except as another data point, which is fairly obvious), but in terms of an application form for school, it may enable the department to match students with financial aid opportunities. While FAFSA doesn't even ask this question, there are scholarships targeted to specific ethnic groups out there.
posted by axiom at 5:31 PM on June 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


I can only answer, from my years of working at a school district, that other demographics, like parental income or education level, are harder to collect. Ethnicity can, usually, be collected "by inspection" (yes, I've encountered official guidelines that direct the clerk to make a best guess by eye). But if parents want to keep their education history or income level secret, there's not much that the clerk can do.

Decisions are made, not with the data we want, but with the data we have.
posted by SPrintF at 5:32 PM on June 4, 2011


Federal law requires they ask about ethnicity, while asking about anything "cultural" might be construed as a way to get around anti-discrimination laws.
posted by orthogonality at 5:34 PM on June 4, 2011 [2 favorites]


In my experience, at a PhD level, there are many departmental and university funds and programs for parrticular minorities. In essence, a department can get a grad student foer 'cheaper because a minority will have fellowship money available.
posted by k8t at 5:34 PM on June 4, 2011


Those data forms are generally based on the statistical reporting forms generated by the Census Bureau. The Census is only conducted every ten years or so, and federal agencies are notoriously slow to adapt to changing social norms like this, i.e. the relevance of "cultural and social indicators" other than ethnicity.

But on this particular issue, it's hard to blame them, really. Ethnicity alone is a touchy subject, and just the framing of that question is controversial enough on its own. How exactly is one supposed to ask a multiple choice question which captures the kind of depth you're talking about in your last paragraph? To do that kind of question justice, you'd really need a free-form box, which shoots the value of any data collected from that question all to hell while making it immensely more difficult to analyze. Besides, they do ask questions which capture a lot of those other indicators anyway, at least by proxy, i.e. income, residence, place of birth, educational attainment, etc.

But at root, the reason why ethnicity is generally asked while other things are not is because ethnicity is the only "cultural and social indicator" which appears in the United States Constitution. Race is the ultimate protected class. Other classes may be protected by statute, e.g. gender, national origin, religion, etc., but race is the biggie by virtue of the Fifteenth Amendment.
posted by valkyryn at 5:34 PM on June 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, but don't forget about 'diversity statements' and programs for 1st generation students - can get fellowships for people too.
posted by k8t at 5:36 PM on June 4, 2011


I think that the short answer is that the Federal government requires educational institutions to maintain statistics on race and gender and not on other stuff. That's mostly, I think, because there's a history of formal, institutional discrimination on grounds of race and gender; there's been a lot of legislation and court cases mandating racial and gender equality; and that data is necessary to monitor progress. But it's also true that other stuff is much harder to get at.

For what it's worth, my institution also collects data on first generation students and student veterans. I don't know if we collect data on other groups. I would be really curious to know about the admission and completion rate of students from low-income families, students whose families don't speak English at home, and students who have kids, for instance.
posted by craichead at 5:48 PM on June 4, 2011


Federal law requires all kinds of people to track this - we have to guess if our employees refuse to put something on the EEO forms when they're hired.
posted by SMPA at 5:55 PM on June 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hah! You're not in the US! Sorry. I have no idea why they do that in the UK.

(In the US, the fight against formal and informal racial segregation in schools has been a huge, ongoing battle. We also have economic segregation in schools, but that isn't as much of a hot-button political issue, because Americans typically aren't offended by economic segregation in the same way that we're, supposedly, offended by racial segregation. So the reason we collect racial data is because it's necessary to chart the progress of school integration efforts. I would expect that people in the UK would collect information on class. Do they not? It's much harder to get at class, but do they ask things like whether students attended state or public primary and secondary schools?)
posted by craichead at 5:56 PM on June 4, 2011


I understand that it can be useful internally in order to prevent discrimination

Mainly this. Imagine the following:

50% of all applicants to a programme self-identify as Asian, but less that 1% of all successful applicants are Asian. Question: why did all the Asian applications get rejected?

100% of all applicants to a programme self-identify as White European. Question: why aren't any minority groups applying for this programme?
posted by The Discredited Ape at 6:16 PM on June 4, 2011 [5 favorites]


"Ethnicity can, usually, be collected "by inspection" (yes, I've encountered official guidelines that direct the clerk to make a best guess by eye)."

In the U.S., as NCLB requires us to report student scores by gender and various ethnic categories, to ensure no "subgroups" are being left behind, students whose families choose not to report their ethnicity have it guessed "by inspection" by the school secretary or the principal or the classroom teacher or someone. This can and does sometimes go weirdly awry.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:27 PM on June 4, 2011


"Ethnicity can, usually, be collected "by inspection" (yes, I've encountered official guidelines that direct the clerk to make a best guess by eye)."

I refuse to choose any answer when it asks for race. In most cases, I don't believe there is any innate value or actionable results by simply sorting peple into skin color. I would be estatic if they would switch to using say, income level, education level, urban vs rural location. I believe that would provide MUCH more data as to demonstrative causes.

I filled the 2010 census over the phone. I was EXTREMELY offended when, after refusing to state a race, the census taker advised me he would have to select one based on my voice and speaking style. That comment sounded so incredibly ignorant, and while I know he was following the rules given to him, I made sure I informed him that my relatively uncommon last name has large branches both in the white and black racial categories, and asked him to think hard on the implication of steretyping a manner of speaking to a racial group.

(as a raging liberal, this viewpoint often gets me shouted down by other liberals. Where, oh where do I fit in? ;) )
posted by waxlight at 12:22 AM on June 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


The reason they ask this question is to root out institutionalised racial discrimination.
In the UK there are laws designed to stop racism but nothing to stop you discriminating against a social class.

It is quite common for people to simply not answer these questions. The standard responses recorded normally include 'Unknown' (meaning the survey didnt get completed at all) and 'Not Given' (meaning that question was left blank)

For job applications (and I imagine PHD applications are similar) the ethnicity answers are never shown to the selection panel.
posted by Lanark at 2:09 AM on June 5, 2011


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