You mean I can keep both feet on the ground when I stop?!
June 4, 2011 2:47 AM Subscribe
Question about crank-forward bicycles, aka pedal-forward, aka flat-foot, aka semi-recumbent.
After seeing me post in this recent bicycling thread, PareidoliaticBoy Memailed me to alert me to the existence of crank-forwards, which as you can see go by a number of different names. I was delighted as I'm very short and tend to ride with the seat too low for the sake of keeping my feet on the ground at a stop.
So here's my issue: My bike shop carries Sun, Electra, and Giant bicycles, each of which have a crank-forward model or two. (The Giant Suede, Electra Townie, and Sun Drifter, if you're interested.) I don't know if my bike shop will have any of these specific models in stock; I will have to ask.
The thing is, when I look at bikes that are made by crank-forward-only companies, like Day6, the seat-back, pedals-forward angle looks much more dramatic than the bikes made by the big companies that just happen to have a crank-forward model (i.e., Sun, Giant, and Electra.) Obviously I'll see if I can test-ride the latter 3 at my bike shop, though if they have to order the models because they don't have them in stock, I don't see them wanting to order all 3.
However, the nearest dealer who carries the Day6 is two hours away from me.
So if you have experience with these bikes, are the mainstream brands (Sun, Giant, Electra) "good enough" or should I drive the two hours to try out a Day6?
After seeing me post in this recent bicycling thread, PareidoliaticBoy Memailed me to alert me to the existence of crank-forwards, which as you can see go by a number of different names. I was delighted as I'm very short and tend to ride with the seat too low for the sake of keeping my feet on the ground at a stop.
So here's my issue: My bike shop carries Sun, Electra, and Giant bicycles, each of which have a crank-forward model or two. (The Giant Suede, Electra Townie, and Sun Drifter, if you're interested.) I don't know if my bike shop will have any of these specific models in stock; I will have to ask.
The thing is, when I look at bikes that are made by crank-forward-only companies, like Day6, the seat-back, pedals-forward angle looks much more dramatic than the bikes made by the big companies that just happen to have a crank-forward model (i.e., Sun, Giant, and Electra.) Obviously I'll see if I can test-ride the latter 3 at my bike shop, though if they have to order the models because they don't have them in stock, I don't see them wanting to order all 3.
However, the nearest dealer who carries the Day6 is two hours away from me.
So if you have experience with these bikes, are the mainstream brands (Sun, Giant, Electra) "good enough" or should I drive the two hours to try out a Day6?
I would never buy a non-standard geometry bike without test riding it first; there's just too much chance that the pedaling position will make you miserable. Additionally, this geometry is usually found on 'beach cruisers'; depending on where you ride, you'll really want to test them going up some real hills, as a poorly designed one will rob you of so much power that climbing will be awful.
A second issue, though, is whether the feet on the ground is the only reason for getting this. If so, you're probably wasting your money; you should be coming forward off your seat to put your foot down when you stop (if you ride with proper saddle height, this is required no matter how tall you are--random image of stopped riders showing how it's done). A little practice will save you the new bike cost.
posted by Dr.Enormous at 4:46 AM on June 4, 2011
A second issue, though, is whether the feet on the ground is the only reason for getting this. If so, you're probably wasting your money; you should be coming forward off your seat to put your foot down when you stop (if you ride with proper saddle height, this is required no matter how tall you are--random image of stopped riders showing how it's done). A little practice will save you the new bike cost.
posted by Dr.Enormous at 4:46 AM on June 4, 2011
My family has two Electras (Towny and some sort of beach cruiser). We love them. The beach cruiser style is slower than the Towny, but you would expect that with huge tires and a large frame. I have a collection of bikes (a road bike, mtn, recumbent) and these get used moved often.
posted by burlsube at 5:09 AM on June 4, 2011
posted by burlsube at 5:09 AM on June 4, 2011
depending on where you ride, you'll really want to test them going up some real hills, as a poorly designed one will rob you of so much power that climbing will be awful.
That is probably true. However, I ride a 35 lb. recumbent and can climb fairly well. It just takes a while to build up a different set of muscles and you have to use small gears, as opposed to standing up and mashing on the pedals.
posted by mecran01 at 8:26 AM on June 4, 2011
That is probably true. However, I ride a 35 lb. recumbent and can climb fairly well. It just takes a while to build up a different set of muscles and you have to use small gears, as opposed to standing up and mashing on the pedals.
posted by mecran01 at 8:26 AM on June 4, 2011
How timely. I am currently sitting around waiting for my Townie to be done with it's visit at the tune-up shop.
My Townie is now 6 years old, and it's done fairly well as my primary warm-weather transport. It's super comfortable to ride, and when the gears are working well, it's great for getting around my fairly hilly town.
However, it hasn't aged very well. It seems like there's almost always some sort of problem with the gears and shifting. Most recently, that has taken the form o the rear derailleur dropping the chain every time I try to downshift. Thus, if you go with a Townie, I recommend being super vigilant about maintenance from the start. I wasn't, and suspect that may be the source o some of these issues.
posted by amelioration at 9:32 AM on June 4, 2011
My Townie is now 6 years old, and it's done fairly well as my primary warm-weather transport. It's super comfortable to ride, and when the gears are working well, it's great for getting around my fairly hilly town.
However, it hasn't aged very well. It seems like there's almost always some sort of problem with the gears and shifting. Most recently, that has taken the form o the rear derailleur dropping the chain every time I try to downshift. Thus, if you go with a Townie, I recommend being super vigilant about maintenance from the start. I wasn't, and suspect that may be the source o some of these issues.
posted by amelioration at 9:32 AM on June 4, 2011
Dr.Enormous: "I would never buy a non-standard geometry bike without test riding it first; there's just too much chance that the pedaling position will make you miserable."
Yes, please do test-ride it, because there's a good chance you will hate it. I rode a Giant Suede daily for three months, and it was terrible. It wasn't just harder to pedal, although that was also frustrating. No, the real problem is that the riding position is uncomfortable. All your weight is going to be on your butt, which will get sore real fast, and your back is going to be bolt-upright, so every bump in the road will feel like a spanking.
Also, if you pedal hard, you'll just push yourself backward off the seat, so you have to learn to spin (pedal quickly in a low gear). So hills are going to be a pain until you learn to spin, and I'm convinced it's actually harder to spin on a foot-forward bike. On a normal bike, I can hold 70 rpm smoothly and even get up to 90 rpm with a little jerkiness; on that foot-forward design, I was still mashing along at, like, 40 rpm after three months of daily riding.
posted by d. z. wang at 9:50 AM on June 4, 2011
Yes, please do test-ride it, because there's a good chance you will hate it. I rode a Giant Suede daily for three months, and it was terrible. It wasn't just harder to pedal, although that was also frustrating. No, the real problem is that the riding position is uncomfortable. All your weight is going to be on your butt, which will get sore real fast, and your back is going to be bolt-upright, so every bump in the road will feel like a spanking.
Also, if you pedal hard, you'll just push yourself backward off the seat, so you have to learn to spin (pedal quickly in a low gear). So hills are going to be a pain until you learn to spin, and I'm convinced it's actually harder to spin on a foot-forward bike. On a normal bike, I can hold 70 rpm smoothly and even get up to 90 rpm with a little jerkiness; on that foot-forward design, I was still mashing along at, like, 40 rpm after three months of daily riding.
posted by d. z. wang at 9:50 AM on June 4, 2011
Nthing the recommendation to test ride any bike thoroughly. Try some hills at the very least, and if there's a wind up that day, try to pedal into it. Compare the performance of different bikes under the same conditions.
I'm a 5'1" woman. I have a comfort hybrid with a step through frame, a performance hybrid with a crossbar and a mountain bike with a crossbar, all with the saddle set to allow just a slightly bent knee on the pedal at full extension. Sliding off the saddle at a stop is second nature, and despite over 7500 km of riding since 2008, I have never slammed my crotch into the bar on the latter two bikes. I can swing my leg over either bike as I mount from the left by just tilting it down to the left as I lift my right leg. If I have the old milk crate strapped on the back of the mountain bike, I bend my leg so I get over the crossbar without being challenged by the milk crate.
Some people may find non-standard geometry comfortable, but I find even my comfort hybrid, with the handlebars higher than the saddle, to be an awful ride for me. My shoulders and forearms hurt going even a short distance, and my butt hurts, then goes numb if I'm on it for more than 15 minutes, no matter what cushy or sporty saddle I've tried. Short rides hurt, hills hurt, carrying groceries hurt. It's about as efficient as fitting an armchair with wheels and a drive train.
In contrast, my other bikes have handlebars and saddle at the same height, and my weight is more evenly distributed across my three points of contact: hands, feet and butt. I am still in a fairly upright position versus a road bike and can see the road well when I ride.
So certainly try, try, try out those bikes. If you find one that fits, travels well in a test ride, and you love it, buy it. But don't turn your back on the potential of a small-framed and properly fitted hybrid that could be all the bike you need.
posted by maudlin at 1:16 PM on June 4, 2011
I'm a 5'1" woman. I have a comfort hybrid with a step through frame, a performance hybrid with a crossbar and a mountain bike with a crossbar, all with the saddle set to allow just a slightly bent knee on the pedal at full extension. Sliding off the saddle at a stop is second nature, and despite over 7500 km of riding since 2008, I have never slammed my crotch into the bar on the latter two bikes. I can swing my leg over either bike as I mount from the left by just tilting it down to the left as I lift my right leg. If I have the old milk crate strapped on the back of the mountain bike, I bend my leg so I get over the crossbar without being challenged by the milk crate.
Some people may find non-standard geometry comfortable, but I find even my comfort hybrid, with the handlebars higher than the saddle, to be an awful ride for me. My shoulders and forearms hurt going even a short distance, and my butt hurts, then goes numb if I'm on it for more than 15 minutes, no matter what cushy or sporty saddle I've tried. Short rides hurt, hills hurt, carrying groceries hurt. It's about as efficient as fitting an armchair with wheels and a drive train.
In contrast, my other bikes have handlebars and saddle at the same height, and my weight is more evenly distributed across my three points of contact: hands, feet and butt. I am still in a fairly upright position versus a road bike and can see the road well when I ride.
So certainly try, try, try out those bikes. If you find one that fits, travels well in a test ride, and you love it, buy it. But don't turn your back on the potential of a small-framed and properly fitted hybrid that could be all the bike you need.
posted by maudlin at 1:16 PM on June 4, 2011
Response by poster: Just an update: I plan on test riding any bike I am considering buying. Also, I live in Flat Indiana. There are no hills around here, at least none I'll be riding on. I think I will eventually drive the 2 hours and test out the Day 6 bikes, but the bike shop that has them says they're backordered until the beginning of July, and that they sell like crazy.
Putting my feet down at a stop is not the only reason I want one. I also have cubital tunnel syndrome in my right elbow and therefore, keeping weight off my arms is a really good idea. I know this could make my butt more sore but there are saddles (and the Day6 even has a non-saddle seat model) and bike shorts for that, and I'm not looking to ride for hours on end. I'm not looking at it even for transportation... just for fun.
Can I hear from some more people who have positive stories or really love their crank-forwards? (Besides pearlybob and burlsube, thanks so much!) I have to be honest, all this "it might make you miserable" has taken the wind out of my sails, so to speak. I was really excited about getting a new bike and now I'm not so sure.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:53 PM on June 4, 2011
Putting my feet down at a stop is not the only reason I want one. I also have cubital tunnel syndrome in my right elbow and therefore, keeping weight off my arms is a really good idea. I know this could make my butt more sore but there are saddles (and the Day6 even has a non-saddle seat model) and bike shorts for that, and I'm not looking to ride for hours on end. I'm not looking at it even for transportation... just for fun.
Can I hear from some more people who have positive stories or really love their crank-forwards? (Besides pearlybob and burlsube, thanks so much!) I have to be honest, all this "it might make you miserable" has taken the wind out of my sails, so to speak. I was really excited about getting a new bike and now I'm not so sure.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:53 PM on June 4, 2011
I have a crank-forward Electra Zarape cruiser. The forwardness of the crank is not as extreme as Electra's Townie line, so the "flat foot" ability is not as pronounced, but it does put your feet a little closer to the ground than traditional crank placement. I bought the Zarape more for style than the crank-forward design. This is my leisure bike, though, so I don't ride it for speed, just pleasure. (My commuting bike is a Gary Fisher Wingra.) It does handle mild hills just fine; I haven't taken it on any extreme inclines.
My wife, who is new to cycling, has an Electra Karma and the crank-forward design is very helpful for her feeling more in control and comfortable at stops, but again, I wouldn't call it truly "flat foot."
Personally, I do like the crank-forward design, but it wouldn't be my only criteria for purchasing a bike. It's all about personal preference, and like just about everything in life, there are trade-offs. If you really want the benefits of crank-forward, I would say an Electra Townie or similar model would give you the most of what you are looking for. The Electra cruisers, or other bikes with a less extreme crank-forward design may not be enough of a difference to matter much.
posted by The Deej at 10:30 AM on June 6, 2011
My wife, who is new to cycling, has an Electra Karma and the crank-forward design is very helpful for her feeling more in control and comfortable at stops, but again, I wouldn't call it truly "flat foot."
Personally, I do like the crank-forward design, but it wouldn't be my only criteria for purchasing a bike. It's all about personal preference, and like just about everything in life, there are trade-offs. If you really want the benefits of crank-forward, I would say an Electra Townie or similar model would give you the most of what you are looking for. The Electra cruisers, or other bikes with a less extreme crank-forward design may not be enough of a difference to matter much.
posted by The Deej at 10:30 AM on June 6, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pearlybob at 3:12 AM on June 4, 2011