Grad school worries

May 13, 2005 8:34 AM

I'm a little worried about applying to grad school. I've read an awful lot about it, and I'm looking for some advice from actual people.

I'm a junior in Computer Science right now at Temple University. I'm very involved with the research of a couple of professors here, to the extent of doing RA-style work on their less important topics in an independent-study environment. Likewise, I've actually started, with three other students, an interdepartmental research/development project in social computing that's caught an awful lot of attention in the school--it's actually even borderline publishable material (IMNSHO). However, my GPA is only so-so (3.0), mostly out of pure laziness with classes.

I'm looking at programs with a PhD track, since my hope right now is to be able to get my doctorate and go into research (either academic or industry, I haven't decided). The topic that I'm hoping to research is not particularly widespread, and so the options of programs is fairly limited. What's more, most of these programs are located at top name schools; MIT, Caltech, University of Washington.

Any input on my chances of getting into those schools?

Simultaneously, there's always the option simply to remain at Temple. I like the school, they have a decent enough program, and it's more of a sure thing. But, none of the people in the compsci department are researching the topic I'm interested in.

What are my chances of ever getting back to my prefered topic if I wind up doing graduate work in a different area? At what point in the academic process is one expected to specialize?

Thanks.

posted by Netzapper to Education (16 answers total)

I don't know much about your chances for the programs you're interested in.

It's a good idea to move on to a different setting after you get your undergrad degree. You get more prespective, you are exposed to new faces and "new ideas". Also, the more people who know you and think highly of you, the better.
posted by funkbrain at 8:41 AM on May 13, 2005

You may be able to offset the GPA with letters of rec, GRE scores, your personal statement, and (as you say) the research. Still, though, a 3.0 will raise some eyebrows at top schools. Two more options: take graduate courses as a non-matriculated student, which will give you more grades to play with; enter a terminal MA program at a decent school, then move for your Ph.D.
posted by thomas j wise at 8:52 AM on May 13, 2005

It's always a good idea to go to a different school, if it's possible. If it's not possible, I wouldn't worry about it. Your grades may not be as important as GRE scores and faculty recommendations. My grades weren't great, but my scores were, and I had some good recommendations, so I got in a pretty good range of places (totally different area from yours, though).

In my experience, the pressure to specialize occurs very(too) early in a graduate program. It's quite difficult to change fields while in school, and nearly impossible after graduation. I'm not saying it can't be (or hasn't been) done, but you should definitely consider this in chossing programs.

It sounds like you have the right attitutde to make it through, though. I found that folks who go into graduate studies because of a real interest in the subject (as opposed to seeing it as a means to an end, say, for job advancement) do the best. Good luck!
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:53 AM on May 13, 2005

Your GPA may not be the obstacle you think it is. You sound like you know what you want, are one of the few people that already has a focused idea of his research interest, and have already made some progress toward that end. These are rare enough commodities to make you a pretty good candidate. I'd recommend touching base with some of the faculty members you'd like to work with at other institutions. If you get a warm vibe from anyone, the next step might be a phonecall from someone at Temple with a good reputation who can vouch for you. Apart from the plain old paper application, my experience has been that backdooring your way into a program is very doable. Basically once you convince a particular professor that you want to work with them and you know what you're doing, you officially have someone on the inside. And that goes a LONG way.
posted by drpynchon at 8:54 AM on May 13, 2005

Your application package is everything. Do as well as you can on the GREs (or whatever test is required for entrance to your chosen programs). You need glittering, yet honest, recommendations.

Make your essay honest, interesting, and sprinkle it with humor if that's appropriate. Do something different so that it stands out - when I applied for grad school, I wrote my essay as a newspaper article, complete with photographs.

Your GPA will come into play, but if you can prove that you've done interesting things beyond the classroom, it will all even out.

I'm a Media student, so YMMV, but grad school really is what you make of it. You can approach profs about what you want to work on, and they'll help you achieve it.
posted by ArsncHeart at 8:59 AM on May 13, 2005

An application with a so-so GPA might not even get looked at at a top school if it doesn't have stellar GRE scores.

But...if the professors looking through applications trying to find new researchers for their lab know your name and/or face and know that you're reliable, clever, and will do good work for them, you have a much better chance of getting accepted than even some applicants with near-perfect GPAs/GREs.

Some ways to do this are:
-E-mail the professors yourself describing your interests and your research (don't mention your GPA, defintely mention any papers you've co-authored or authored)
-Get a professor you know who knows someone at a program you're interested in to make a personal recommendation (before the application process starts).
-Get yourself to a conference in the research area you're interested in and actually introduce yourself to professors in the area you're interested in.
-If you know anyone who works in labs you're interested in, get them to recommend you personally.
posted by driveler at 9:08 AM on May 13, 2005

At least here (MIT), I can vouch for quite a few people who got in with meh GPAs because they had research under their belt as undergrads and because they took the effort to make connections during the application process. Advisors at home can help make initial connections, or you can set something up when you go visit the school. Once you have a professor who wants you and advocates for you in admissions decisions, the rest is much less determining.
posted by whatzit at 9:22 AM on May 13, 2005

I'd have to agree with funkbrain. I took three years off between undergrad and graduate school (where I got my MA). I then took an additional two years off and was just accepted to my top Ph.D. program choice. I had a so-so GPA in undergrad, but I have extra graduate work, stellar letters of recommendation, solid GRE scores, a decent letter of intent (reviewed numerous times by advisors), and solid work experience.

Granted I'm in the humanities which may function differently than hard sciences, but I think a little time away to "find yourself" is wise. Ph.D. programs are not just looking for smart people, they also want experienced professionals who won't crack from the pressure after having been in school for 16-18 years. It sounds like you love your field, and graduate programs are indeed looking for that kind of passion. But imagine a life without homework for a couple of years! It's fantastic!

With all of that said, if you're focused and know exactly what you want to do, I say go for it. If you don't get in this year, it won't be for lack of intelligence, just lack of experience. Take it easy, kid, why the rush?
posted by hautenegro at 9:36 AM on May 13, 2005

I would agree with the trying to get some personal contact with professors at other schools that are researching in your subject area. Your GPA is good enough to not matter if there is a professor that decides he wants you to come work for him.

Even if the subject you are interested in is really that small, there are other professors working on it at schools besides the "elite" research universities. Sure, they may not have a whole department or even lab devoted it to it, but a lot of the interesting research and papers get published by people working in smaller departments. Do some research and find out who the major researchers are in the field and see which ones are at schools that you are might be interested in. Not to discourage you, but it is VERY hard to get in to MIT caliber grad program.

On top of getting good recommendations from your current professors, get something published- this goes a very long ways. If you can have your name on a few papers while applying to schools people will take a lot more notice. Also, try and go to a conference and meet some of these other researchers face to face and really get in to the subject area. Showing that you are actively involved in the field already in an interview can help a lot.
posted by gus at 9:36 AM on May 13, 2005

Since you have a specific topic in mind that you know you want to research in grad school, I second all the recommendations about getting in touch directly with the professors you'd like to work with. In addition to them possibly helping you to get in, you can get more of a feel for them, what they're doing, and what they have available. You'd hate to, say, get into MIT and only then find out you can't work with the professor you want to work with because he can't take on any more grad students than he already has!
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:50 AM on May 13, 2005

You won't get into a lot of schools with a 3.0 unless you have something to offset it. Like a publication, top gre scores, or a letter of rec. And please don't start your essay with "I've been interested in computers since 6th grade". You need to write about the topic you want to research.

I would apply to those schools and a bunch of safety schools. If you don't get into the program you want, spend one year at someplace else and concentrate on your classes. Get all As, impress people there, and transfer.
posted by about_time at 10:39 AM on May 13, 2005

Also, the US News rankings are complete bullshit. Anyone in CS knows this is true. So, the best place for your research area may in fact be easier to get into. You want to target professors, not programs.
posted by about_time at 10:40 AM on May 13, 2005

You've already put yourself above the curve with the research you're doing and grad schools will love that. Seconding everyone else, make sure you get great letters from people you have been working with on these projects (and outside letters if you can, though this is much more rare). That can easily make up for GPA. I'm not sure about Computer Science (philosophy here), but you can usually cover up GPA even more with stellar GRE scores. You can then play up the "classes didn't challenge me enough" angle which research professors will relate to.

Get letters, publish your research if at all possible. Not sure if this makes the upper-echelon in CS or not, but it's a start. And hey, if you get in somewhere that's not doing what you prefer and have time to do it on the side you have an excellent lead-in for post-graduate school interviews and jobs.
posted by ontic at 10:49 AM on May 13, 2005

I'm currently in my 6th (and final!) year of my Ph.D. program, at the same school that I attended as an undergrad. Took two years off to figure out what I wanted to do before coming back. The experience outside of the same environment was good for me. If you're already sure of what you want to do, I'd recommend getting experience outside of your current school by attending a grad program elsewhere.

Also, don't discount the idea of trying something related to but different from your current interests. I'm in the same general field as my first job out of college, but went in a different direction with my own research (from a molecular biology lab to a behavioral neurobiology lab). Apply based on the strength of the program and the people involved, not just on the line of study you have your eye on.

That said, don't commit to 5+ years of work towards a subject you have no interest in, either - no matter how good the school or PI's reputation is.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:46 AM on May 13, 2005

The GPA will be more of a problem if you are applying "cold" to a program; that is, if you just send in an app to a place based on reputation. The research experience is a big plus, though - especially if your PI is willing to make a phone call and vouch for you. A nice letter is good, but a That said, the one thing that will have the biggest impact on your grad school experience (and bit on your post-grad plans) is your relationship with your advisor. You may be in a great program at a great school, but you could be miserable if your advisor is a dud. You should make every effort to identify and meet with the PI's who you want to work for at the schools you are considering.
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 12:05 PM on May 13, 2005

You NEED to get in touch with the faculty you might want to work with. A lot of the time, the grad admissions committee is only made up of 3 or 4 profs. If the prof who is likely to want you is not on the committee, s/he may never see you application. You need to contact them and make sure you give them reason to check out your file and tell the committee that you should be given serious consideration.
posted by cushie at 10:15 AM on May 14, 2005