Animal House
May 18, 2011 4:39 PM Subscribe
Several friends and I would like to rent out a house. Some of us have lived at apartments, but most have only lived at home with their parents all their lives. Most of us are 20-21 years old. We are all in the same fraternity...
Essentially, we're looking to make it a pseudo-fraternity house (as in: not official). It would be the hangout spot for all brothers right off-campus, and we'd have a good amount of parties and kickbacks.
Obviously there's going to be a fair amount of property damage by year's end.
The big conundrum we're facing is determining what sorts of problems we'll face (legally, financially, and whatever other sorts of ramifications come with the territory).
Wisely, no parents or alumni are willing to put their names down to co-sign the lease.
Would it be possible for the slew of us (7-8 guys) to all sign the lease? Only a few of us have jobs (others are on financial aid), and no one has any real equity/assets/credit. Basically, how viable is this?
We are located in California.
Essentially, we're looking to make it a pseudo-fraternity house (as in: not official). It would be the hangout spot for all brothers right off-campus, and we'd have a good amount of parties and kickbacks.
Obviously there's going to be a fair amount of property damage by year's end.
The big conundrum we're facing is determining what sorts of problems we'll face (legally, financially, and whatever other sorts of ramifications come with the territory).
Wisely, no parents or alumni are willing to put their names down to co-sign the lease.
Would it be possible for the slew of us (7-8 guys) to all sign the lease? Only a few of us have jobs (others are on financial aid), and no one has any real equity/assets/credit. Basically, how viable is this?
We are located in California.
I would think if you just printed out this question, and took it along to whatever landlord or leasing agent and showed it to them, they could do pretty good job explaining to you why this is a BAD idea.
It really seems you are all way to immature and unprepared for this sort of move, and with the number of people involved, there is a fair chance one or two of them will leave/flake at some point, leaving the rest holding the bag.
You are setting yourself up for a lot of problems financially (i.e. wrecking credit you barely have), academically, and most likely legally due to the amount of partying you have planned.
I mean, would you hand these other 6-7 guys the keys to your new car, and tell them to go ahead and use it for a few months?
posted by timsteil at 4:54 PM on May 18, 2011 [7 favorites]
It really seems you are all way to immature and unprepared for this sort of move, and with the number of people involved, there is a fair chance one or two of them will leave/flake at some point, leaving the rest holding the bag.
You are setting yourself up for a lot of problems financially (i.e. wrecking credit you barely have), academically, and most likely legally due to the amount of partying you have planned.
I mean, would you hand these other 6-7 guys the keys to your new car, and tell them to go ahead and use it for a few months?
posted by timsteil at 4:54 PM on May 18, 2011 [7 favorites]
Uh... you will have a hard time finding a landlord that will rent to you. Remember, all lease signers (and co-signers) are jointly and separately responsible for the rent and the property; which means if the rent is late, or the property is damaged, the landlord can sue any one of you for the full amount. Wisely indeed that no-one with money has volunteered to be responsible for your plan.
A better possibility is identify a sub-group with the appropriate income and maturity to serve as the primary tenants and who will serve as the resident manager to sublet to the rest of the group? Do get the landlord agreement for subletting; without his agreement, subletting may constitute breaking the lease.
posted by curiousZ at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
A better possibility is identify a sub-group with the appropriate income and maturity to serve as the primary tenants and who will serve as the resident manager to sublet to the rest of the group? Do get the landlord agreement for subletting; without his agreement, subletting may constitute breaking the lease.
posted by curiousZ at 4:55 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is really common near colleges. I did this with a bunch of fraternity brothers during undergrad since my school didn't have greek housing (UCSD go us!), and almost everyone else I knew was doing something like this as well.
We had actual houses that had been rented by groups of brothers for years. When one group of brothers moved out, another group moved in and signed a new lease. If something was damaged during a fraternity event, the fraternity paid to fix it. The houses themselves were in decent shape and they're still being used as informal fraternity houses now.
Are other fraternity brothers or other people you know doing something similar? Ask them how they went about finding their house.
Separate leases with each person is a good idea as well.
posted by Arbac at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2011
We had actual houses that had been rented by groups of brothers for years. When one group of brothers moved out, another group moved in and signed a new lease. If something was damaged during a fraternity event, the fraternity paid to fix it. The houses themselves were in decent shape and they're still being used as informal fraternity houses now.
Are other fraternity brothers or other people you know doing something similar? Ask them how they went about finding their house.
Separate leases with each person is a good idea as well.
posted by Arbac at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2011
I just graduated from college (yay!) and had a couple friends in your exact position.
Just go into this knowing you will lose your security deposit. However much it is, it's all gone. Gone! Also be prepared that if the concentration of frat is high enough, it will always draw in more frat and therefore biddies (for better or worse). Going with that... you're food is their food and people will go through your cabinets.
The biggest problem a lot of my friends had was not with the landlord (via damage, rents, whatever), but with the neighbors. Neighbors really care and they will absolutely complain. Neighbors around me complained to not only my school, but also the city cops so be prepared to deal with both.
The best option is to take everything underground and get a place with massive, but unfinished basement. The house will get trashed, but less so if you can just funnel everyone downstairs and onto couches you pulled out of the dumpster.
And about the lease... make sure everyone is on it. This will keep everyone responsible for the rent and dually, make it harder for people to randomly move out, kick people out, whatever.
Good luck!
posted by jay.eye.elle.elle. at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2011 [4 favorites]
Just go into this knowing you will lose your security deposit. However much it is, it's all gone. Gone! Also be prepared that if the concentration of frat is high enough, it will always draw in more frat and therefore biddies (for better or worse). Going with that... you're food is their food and people will go through your cabinets.
The biggest problem a lot of my friends had was not with the landlord (via damage, rents, whatever), but with the neighbors. Neighbors really care and they will absolutely complain. Neighbors around me complained to not only my school, but also the city cops so be prepared to deal with both.
The best option is to take everything underground and get a place with massive, but unfinished basement. The house will get trashed, but less so if you can just funnel everyone downstairs and onto couches you pulled out of the dumpster.
And about the lease... make sure everyone is on it. This will keep everyone responsible for the rent and dually, make it harder for people to randomly move out, kick people out, whatever.
Good luck!
posted by jay.eye.elle.elle. at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2011 [4 favorites]
I disagree. When I was in college, every fraternity had a house like this. There was the main house, and then there was a house off campus that a few guys lived in and was kind of unofficial house #2. They passed the houses down through the years, which I think to some degree mitigates the property damage issue, because the lease was never actually ending and the damage was never really getting fixed.
I don't know how they actually did it, but they did it.
I also know plenty of people who had the cosigning issue with big groups of people in a house or apartment, and were able to find landlords or write contracts that addressed the "joint & several" responsibility for rent/damage.
If you are in a college town, obviously the landlords are used to dealing with college people. Talk to them about it. Maybe you need to put down a huge security deposit. Maybe you get the fraternity to kick down that deposit. It's definitely doable, if you hustle a bit.
posted by jeb at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know how they actually did it, but they did it.
I also know plenty of people who had the cosigning issue with big groups of people in a house or apartment, and were able to find landlords or write contracts that addressed the "joint & several" responsibility for rent/damage.
If you are in a college town, obviously the landlords are used to dealing with college people. Talk to them about it. Maybe you need to put down a huge security deposit. Maybe you get the fraternity to kick down that deposit. It's definitely doable, if you hustle a bit.
posted by jeb at 4:57 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wow, lotta crummy answers here.
I was never in a fraternity, but rented a house with four guys who were. We all signed the lease. I am trying to remember if we had to have co-signers or show proof on income but I don't think we did. I'm assuming you live in a college town, yes? Landlords in college towns are used to renting to college students, so it really shouldn't be a big deal.
Be prepared to forfeit the security deposit is my own only warning. Even if you clean everything up immaculately when you move out, landlords love to dick over young people who they think are unwilling on unable to fight back. If it's "right off campus" as you say, you probably won't have problems with neighbors calling the cops on you because your neighbors will be students too.
College students rent houses together all the time. I am baffled as to why people are responding as if this is some kind of crazy impossible scheme.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:58 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
I was never in a fraternity, but rented a house with four guys who were. We all signed the lease. I am trying to remember if we had to have co-signers or show proof on income but I don't think we did. I'm assuming you live in a college town, yes? Landlords in college towns are used to renting to college students, so it really shouldn't be a big deal.
Be prepared to forfeit the security deposit is my own only warning. Even if you clean everything up immaculately when you move out, landlords love to dick over young people who they think are unwilling on unable to fight back. If it's "right off campus" as you say, you probably won't have problems with neighbors calling the cops on you because your neighbors will be students too.
College students rent houses together all the time. I am baffled as to why people are responding as if this is some kind of crazy impossible scheme.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:58 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Ok, so obviously it won't be presented as such (in my description) to the landlord. As far as they're concerned, we're just a bunch of students/friends who want to live together.
Ideally, we'd try to keep the havoc to a minimum, but there's no telling how well that can be contained once mob mentality and booze are involved. Conservatively, the assumption is there will be a fair bit of damage, and we've already considered whatever deposit on the house to be a sunk cost.
Mostly curious about the long-term consequences.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:58 PM on May 18, 2011
Ideally, we'd try to keep the havoc to a minimum, but there's no telling how well that can be contained once mob mentality and booze are involved. Conservatively, the assumption is there will be a fair bit of damage, and we've already considered whatever deposit on the house to be a sunk cost.
Mostly curious about the long-term consequences.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:58 PM on May 18, 2011
Basically, how viable is this?
I am sure you could find someone to rent you a broken down old shack for this plan so in that sense, it's viable.
The big conundrum we're facing is determining what sorts of problems we'll face (legally, financially, and whatever other sorts of ramifications come with the territory).
That is really smart of you. Here are the first two problems (of a bajillion) that come to my mind.
1. Have you ever heard the phrase "joint and several liability?" If you sign a lease with this group of guys and you are jointly and severally liable for rent and property damage, that means not only are you all jointly responsible for those things, but you can also be held INDIVIDUALLY responsible for those things. Could you handle being held individually responsible for say, several thousands of dollars worth of unpaid rent which was supposed to be paid by your roommmates?
Which brings me to ... have you ever heard the phrase "judgment proof"? This means that you could sue someone for a certain amount of money and you may win, but because they have no assets, you can't get anything out of them. And you end up with nothing in the end anyway.
2. I would actually be more afraid of being held legally responsible for the bad behavior of my guests. You know that if someone injures themselves on your property, you might be held legally responsible? That if someone underage obtains alcohol from you, you could go to prison? Eight of you guys, times 10 friends, each, let's say, and you have a party of 80 people. How many of those 80 people will you know well enough to say that they're not going to act like complete idiots? That if they acted like complete idiots and got hurt, they wouldn't turn around and sue you?
posted by Ashley801 at 4:59 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
I am sure you could find someone to rent you a broken down old shack for this plan so in that sense, it's viable.
The big conundrum we're facing is determining what sorts of problems we'll face (legally, financially, and whatever other sorts of ramifications come with the territory).
That is really smart of you. Here are the first two problems (of a bajillion) that come to my mind.
1. Have you ever heard the phrase "joint and several liability?" If you sign a lease with this group of guys and you are jointly and severally liable for rent and property damage, that means not only are you all jointly responsible for those things, but you can also be held INDIVIDUALLY responsible for those things. Could you handle being held individually responsible for say, several thousands of dollars worth of unpaid rent which was supposed to be paid by your roommmates?
Which brings me to ... have you ever heard the phrase "judgment proof"? This means that you could sue someone for a certain amount of money and you may win, but because they have no assets, you can't get anything out of them. And you end up with nothing in the end anyway.
2. I would actually be more afraid of being held legally responsible for the bad behavior of my guests. You know that if someone injures themselves on your property, you might be held legally responsible? That if someone underage obtains alcohol from you, you could go to prison? Eight of you guys, times 10 friends, each, let's say, and you have a party of 80 people. How many of those 80 people will you know well enough to say that they're not going to act like complete idiots? That if they acted like complete idiots and got hurt, they wouldn't turn around and sue you?
posted by Ashley801 at 4:59 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
The biggest problem a lot of my friends had was not with the landlord (via damage, rents, whatever), but with the neighbors. Neighbors really care and they will absolutely complain. Neighbors around me complained to not only my school, but also the city cops so be prepared to deal with both.
I also agree with this. Neighbors will almost definitely be 100x more of a problem than landlords, because they will call the police.
posted by jeb at 4:59 PM on May 18, 2011 [7 favorites]
I also agree with this. Neighbors will almost definitely be 100x more of a problem than landlords, because they will call the police.
posted by jeb at 4:59 PM on May 18, 2011 [7 favorites]
Be sure and check your fraternity's risk management policy and your greek system's social policy - I know ours (FIPG and Georgia Tech, respectively) treated off-campus common living arrangements as fraternity housing for the purposes of liability and responsibility. That being said, I lived in an old slaughterhouse that had been converted to lofts with 7 other brothers and the landlord had no problem with that many of us signing the lease. We (lessees) were responsible for any physical damage to the place, along with any damage to common areas, and would probably be under the umbrella of FIPG in case anything resulting in a lawsuit happened, but we also acted as an extension of the on-campus house for IFC social policy.
Either way, take care of your place, keep it clean and in working order. You can still have parties, just be responsible about it.
posted by squorch at 5:10 PM on May 18, 2011
Either way, take care of your place, keep it clean and in working order. You can still have parties, just be responsible about it.
posted by squorch at 5:10 PM on May 18, 2011
Ashley801 brings up a good point on #2.
Whatever you do, get renter's insurance.
posted by phunniemee at 5:10 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
Whatever you do, get renter's insurance.
posted by phunniemee at 5:10 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is what the neighbors behind my apartment building have done, to a much smaller apartment building. Other neighbors, including myself, have and do call the cops every single time when things get loud and late. Old-fart-like and totally lame or not, one's desire to re-enact some kind of idyllic college youth does not trump the peace of everyone else around them. If you do this, and your neighbors are anything like me, you will get the called cops. Every. Single. Time.
posted by raztaj at 5:11 PM on May 18, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by raztaj at 5:11 PM on May 18, 2011 [9 favorites]
Yep. I live next to a house like this. I am not a fan of cops and I think twice before involving them in anything, but I call them on this house aalll the time, like more than once a week at the worst times of the year.
Am I old and boring? Maybe. I have some awesome parties of my own and have enough respect to make sure they don't disturb my neighbors, but it sucks ass to be pregnant and sick and have to get up early and have bros yelling about bitches outside your window at 3am.
How incredibly disrespectful to plan to cause damage to someone else's property and disruption to your neighbors and to put it down to "mob mentality". Frat mob mentality has led to some pretty fucked up stuff. It's also true that you are inviting serious legal and financial trouble, which most frat members seem to avoid only because they're privileged and mostly white.
You know, you might be asking this on the wrong site.
posted by crabintheocean at 5:13 PM on May 18, 2011 [23 favorites]
Am I old and boring? Maybe. I have some awesome parties of my own and have enough respect to make sure they don't disturb my neighbors, but it sucks ass to be pregnant and sick and have to get up early and have bros yelling about bitches outside your window at 3am.
How incredibly disrespectful to plan to cause damage to someone else's property and disruption to your neighbors and to put it down to "mob mentality". Frat mob mentality has led to some pretty fucked up stuff. It's also true that you are inviting serious legal and financial trouble, which most frat members seem to avoid only because they're privileged and mostly white.
You know, you might be asking this on the wrong site.
posted by crabintheocean at 5:13 PM on May 18, 2011 [23 favorites]
First of all, don't listen to people that think this is a bad idea. Frat or not, this is how tonnes of people live in college.
Second: READ THE RESIDENTIAL TENANCY ACT FOR YOUR STATE. There should be an easy to digest version somewhere that will clearly explain your responsibilities as tenants. As people above mentioned you can have everyone sign the lease, but that means that any one of you can be left holding the bag if other people flake on rent.
Third: As mentioned above, you should make up a contract that is separate from the lease between the people moving in to the house. The contract should stipulate that the people moving in to the house are responsible for their share of the rent for the full year no matter what, and that everyone is equally responsible for any damages. It doesn't really matter if a contract like that is enforceable in court; the point is more to get everyone involved on the same page and discourage people from flaking out halfway through the year.
Finally:
Ideally, we'd try to keep the havoc to a minimum, but there's no telling how well that can be contained once mob mentality and booze are involved.
This is not true, and you'll do well to get rid of this attitude before you lease a house. The penalty for living in a kickass frat house is that you are now responsible for your kickass frat house surviving the year. That means preparing the house before parties (covering floors in plastic, putting away anything breakable, installing locks on bedroom doors) and making sure you're sober enough to keep the peace, deal with drunk people causing trouble, and deal with the police when the are (inevitably) called.
If that stuff doesn't sound appealing to you and all your future housemates, get yourself an apartment and just show up when the guys who were dumb enough to sign the lease throw a party.
posted by auto-correct at 5:18 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Second: READ THE RESIDENTIAL TENANCY ACT FOR YOUR STATE. There should be an easy to digest version somewhere that will clearly explain your responsibilities as tenants. As people above mentioned you can have everyone sign the lease, but that means that any one of you can be left holding the bag if other people flake on rent.
Third: As mentioned above, you should make up a contract that is separate from the lease between the people moving in to the house. The contract should stipulate that the people moving in to the house are responsible for their share of the rent for the full year no matter what, and that everyone is equally responsible for any damages. It doesn't really matter if a contract like that is enforceable in court; the point is more to get everyone involved on the same page and discourage people from flaking out halfway through the year.
Finally:
Ideally, we'd try to keep the havoc to a minimum, but there's no telling how well that can be contained once mob mentality and booze are involved.
This is not true, and you'll do well to get rid of this attitude before you lease a house. The penalty for living in a kickass frat house is that you are now responsible for your kickass frat house surviving the year. That means preparing the house before parties (covering floors in plastic, putting away anything breakable, installing locks on bedroom doors) and making sure you're sober enough to keep the peace, deal with drunk people causing trouble, and deal with the police when the are (inevitably) called.
If that stuff doesn't sound appealing to you and all your future housemates, get yourself an apartment and just show up when the guys who were dumb enough to sign the lease throw a party.
posted by auto-correct at 5:18 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, check out page 20 in FIPG's manual:
Courts have held that if a certain percentage or number of members are gathered at any location, that gathering can be interpreted as a chapter activity, whether “official” or “unofficial.” Remember that FIPG policy uses the term, “…that an observer would associate with..”. Most national organizations do not use a hard or precise number or percentage of members to determine if an event is a chapter event. Keep in mind that courts in some states have not placed a number on what constitutes a chapter event.
and
Most states have laws that incriminate a social host for serving alcohol to minors. If not, civil remedies are available to a person alleging injury after attending an event hosted by a chapter member. In addition, the member’s parents may be held liable for the actions of the member if he hosts a party and someone gets hurt.
posted by squorch at 5:19 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Courts have held that if a certain percentage or number of members are gathered at any location, that gathering can be interpreted as a chapter activity, whether “official” or “unofficial.” Remember that FIPG policy uses the term, “…that an observer would associate with..”. Most national organizations do not use a hard or precise number or percentage of members to determine if an event is a chapter event. Keep in mind that courts in some states have not placed a number on what constitutes a chapter event.
and
Most states have laws that incriminate a social host for serving alcohol to minors. If not, civil remedies are available to a person alleging injury after attending an event hosted by a chapter member. In addition, the member’s parents may be held liable for the actions of the member if he hosts a party and someone gets hurt.
posted by squorch at 5:19 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, it is of course possible to find such a house. There are lots of landlords who will rent to anyone who is willing to live in their beat-up old mansion that they haven't put money into for 20 years. At this point in the year, most of them are probably already leased to other people like you though. Auto-correct and others have good points.
You asked for long-term-consequences: Ashley801 #2 has a few. I thought i would embellish.
1) Furnishing alcohol to minors is becoming progressively more unpleasant. Getting even a minor criminal record is not something you want- it will take you out of the running for many, many jobs, even those that it shouldn't. The job market is going to be tight for years.
2) Major damage to the house (i.e. fire) will be your responsibility, beyond the security deposit. You will want renter's insurance for this reason, in addition to covering the possibility of major theft.
3) In California, your wages can be garnished for up to the next ten years to settle a judgment(according to my insurance agent. I do not know the details). You may be judgement proof now, but you may have significant future earning potential that can be taken advantage of.
4) You do not want the first result of a Google search on your name to be an article in the student newspaper about something incredibly irresponsible that happened at your house.
posted by rockindata at 5:38 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
You asked for long-term-consequences: Ashley801 #2 has a few. I thought i would embellish.
1) Furnishing alcohol to minors is becoming progressively more unpleasant. Getting even a minor criminal record is not something you want- it will take you out of the running for many, many jobs, even those that it shouldn't. The job market is going to be tight for years.
2) Major damage to the house (i.e. fire) will be your responsibility, beyond the security deposit. You will want renter's insurance for this reason, in addition to covering the possibility of major theft.
3) In California, your wages can be garnished for up to the next ten years to settle a judgment(according to my insurance agent. I do not know the details). You may be judgement proof now, but you may have significant future earning potential that can be taken advantage of.
4) You do not want the first result of a Google search on your name to be an article in the student newspaper about something incredibly irresponsible that happened at your house.
posted by rockindata at 5:38 PM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've lived in and had friends who lived in houses like this. The one major thing that you need to be aware of is that if you have college parties in your house frequently people people will not respect your house or your belongings. At all. Some practical results of this:
- Your house will always be a shithole. The best possible state of your house will be a shithole where someone has picked all the crap up off the floor. You're going to have to sleep in this shithole, like, every night.
- The cops will get called on you. A lot. Probably every time you have a party, or every hour everytime you have a party. Drunk people are really loud and drunk people at someone else's house don't give a shit. Depending on your municipality this can have varying results, but there will likely be expensive noise violations levied on residents of the house. In my municipality we had to go to court if we got more than 3 and could theoretically go to jail (I think). You're also way at risk for underage drinking citations and when you have 100 people over for a party and some freshman girl shows up already drunk and falls off your deck and dies guess who's going to get sued.
- If you ever want a quiet night at home to study or get to bed early because you have an exam or you're sick, you're out of luck. 7 guys living in the party house means every night someone is going to want to be loud and drinking. I can't emphasis enough how grating and bad for your health this can be.
- Anything you have of value will be broken or stolen. All of your food will be eaten, at best. At worst it will be spread across your carpeted living room or used to clog up your toilet. If you have any decent cookware it will be abused and/or stolen.
- When a bunch of Marines come to town on leave and want to party and hook up with college chicks they're going to come to your house, and then beat you up when you try to make them leave. Marines are good at beating people up, but are generally not the best college party guests.
- I dunno how you feel about smoking but everything you own will smell like smoke, all the time.
- You actually probably can get through a year without seriously damaging the actual house aside from windows and carpet, the damage will mainly be to your possessions.
- People are going to piss in your sink and on any freestanding object in your yard.
Really the best option for you is probably to get a nice 1 bedroom apartment and encourage your friends to get a party house for you to trash.
posted by ghharr at 6:29 PM on May 18, 2011 [3 favorites]
- Your house will always be a shithole. The best possible state of your house will be a shithole where someone has picked all the crap up off the floor. You're going to have to sleep in this shithole, like, every night.
- The cops will get called on you. A lot. Probably every time you have a party, or every hour everytime you have a party. Drunk people are really loud and drunk people at someone else's house don't give a shit. Depending on your municipality this can have varying results, but there will likely be expensive noise violations levied on residents of the house. In my municipality we had to go to court if we got more than 3 and could theoretically go to jail (I think). You're also way at risk for underage drinking citations and when you have 100 people over for a party and some freshman girl shows up already drunk and falls off your deck and dies guess who's going to get sued.
- If you ever want a quiet night at home to study or get to bed early because you have an exam or you're sick, you're out of luck. 7 guys living in the party house means every night someone is going to want to be loud and drinking. I can't emphasis enough how grating and bad for your health this can be.
- Anything you have of value will be broken or stolen. All of your food will be eaten, at best. At worst it will be spread across your carpeted living room or used to clog up your toilet. If you have any decent cookware it will be abused and/or stolen.
- When a bunch of Marines come to town on leave and want to party and hook up with college chicks they're going to come to your house, and then beat you up when you try to make them leave. Marines are good at beating people up, but are generally not the best college party guests.
- I dunno how you feel about smoking but everything you own will smell like smoke, all the time.
- You actually probably can get through a year without seriously damaging the actual house aside from windows and carpet, the damage will mainly be to your possessions.
- People are going to piss in your sink and on any freestanding object in your yard.
Really the best option for you is probably to get a nice 1 bedroom apartment and encourage your friends to get a party house for you to trash.
posted by ghharr at 6:29 PM on May 18, 2011 [3 favorites]
In many college towns, this is now illegal. Local zoning rules say that no more than a set number of unrelated people can live in a house together. For example, Athens, GA and Chapel Hill, NC. So, I would check that out first, for your town. If it is illegal, and you find an unscrupulous landlord willing to rent to you anyway, but you might find yourself evicted in the middle of the school year if the neighbors complain to the right people.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:33 PM on May 18, 2011
posted by hydropsyche at 6:33 PM on May 18, 2011
One way to make this more viable is to buy a house instead of rent one. Can any of you swing the purchase price of a dumpy house near the campus? That person buys the house, and the rest of you pay rent to the owner.
After you graduate, the owner can rent it out to your fellow frat boys, drawing income from it for as long as it rents. And, no worries about the property damage, because instead of tearing up someone else's home, you'll be tearing up your own... and expecting future damage from later generations of students.
posted by Houstonian at 6:40 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
After you graduate, the owner can rent it out to your fellow frat boys, drawing income from it for as long as it rents. And, no worries about the property damage, because instead of tearing up someone else's home, you'll be tearing up your own... and expecting future damage from later generations of students.
posted by Houstonian at 6:40 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ideally, just inherit the house from the previous crew and effectively be subleasers from tenants who lived there in 1986, as suggested above.
If you do have to deal with the landlord, I want you to protect yourself (personally), so I recommend letting the person who (a) is most reckless, and (b) has the richest parents be the leaseholder. Then, it's all about how it looks at move-out compared to how it looks at move-in. Pick a house in poor shape, with wood floors that are already trashed. Discourage improvements before you move in -- come up with various reasons. "No need to paint, we like these designs they've drawn on the walls." "Oh, no need to repair that door, we're not that picky." (If existing damage is really egregious, you could even use it to negotiate a reduction in the deposit.) Take pictures. Then, plan to stay a few days after finals to do some repairs before the move-out date. Determine the skills you need, e.g., drywall? interior painting? and see if anyone you know worked construction during summers. (And remember that you'll need tools and a truck to get to the hardware store.) If you can, leave it in better shape than you found it in a few noticeable ways. Then get your names off the lease before future tenants do damage!
posted by salvia at 6:59 PM on May 18, 2011
If you do have to deal with the landlord, I want you to protect yourself (personally), so I recommend letting the person who (a) is most reckless, and (b) has the richest parents be the leaseholder. Then, it's all about how it looks at move-out compared to how it looks at move-in. Pick a house in poor shape, with wood floors that are already trashed. Discourage improvements before you move in -- come up with various reasons. "No need to paint, we like these designs they've drawn on the walls." "Oh, no need to repair that door, we're not that picky." (If existing damage is really egregious, you could even use it to negotiate a reduction in the deposit.) Take pictures. Then, plan to stay a few days after finals to do some repairs before the move-out date. Determine the skills you need, e.g., drywall? interior painting? and see if anyone you know worked construction during summers. (And remember that you'll need tools and a truck to get to the hardware store.) If you can, leave it in better shape than you found it in a few noticeable ways. Then get your names off the lease before future tenants do damage!
posted by salvia at 6:59 PM on May 18, 2011
OK, so my friends have a house like this - the 'Manor' - that has passed through the hands of group of guys who hold sweet parties, great bbqs, and are basically a sports frat. Things that are important to pulling this off:
- get a house where the neighbours won't complain. Make sure it is detached. Make sure it is not in a family neighbourhood. My friends have a detached house on the end of a street by a parking lot and a factory in the student part of town. Next house over is a law office that is empty at night.
- make sure the guys are responsible. My friends throw parties where they build fish tanks or put tin foil on all their walls or bring in tonnes of sand and that's sweet. What's even sweeter is that they all clean up the next day. They fix broken doors, replace toilet paper when it's empty, and all cook real food. This is crucial to a)maintaining goodwill and b) a viable living and partying house
- make sure the landlord doesn't really care. Most landlords for student houses don't care so long as you repair your own damage and don't get the cops called too often.
- as for legal ramifications, I have no idea. Make sure you stipulate expectations regarding upkeep, food, cleanliness, etc before signing a lease together.
- the things that has made this house "legendary" in a sense is that despite the fact that none of the original members still live there, other guys in the same social circle do and the "spirit" is still there and kicking. Make sure you have other people besides you in your social circle to pass it on to when you're done school.
- as for leases, I think they are all on the lease separately and they certainly don't update the lease as soon as someone moves in or out. There is a permanent "squatter" room for the friend who has no job/money/place to go, whoever that is at the moment. Can't squat for too long though, and you have to contribute in the form of cleaning and groceries, usually.
Done right, this can be amazing. It will be kind of like a family home, a sweet hang out spot, a bumping party house, everything you want. Open, honest communication, good fixit skills, and good friends are important to getting there though.
posted by hepta at 7:09 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
- get a house where the neighbours won't complain. Make sure it is detached. Make sure it is not in a family neighbourhood. My friends have a detached house on the end of a street by a parking lot and a factory in the student part of town. Next house over is a law office that is empty at night.
- make sure the guys are responsible. My friends throw parties where they build fish tanks or put tin foil on all their walls or bring in tonnes of sand and that's sweet. What's even sweeter is that they all clean up the next day. They fix broken doors, replace toilet paper when it's empty, and all cook real food. This is crucial to a)maintaining goodwill and b) a viable living and partying house
- make sure the landlord doesn't really care. Most landlords for student houses don't care so long as you repair your own damage and don't get the cops called too often.
- as for legal ramifications, I have no idea. Make sure you stipulate expectations regarding upkeep, food, cleanliness, etc before signing a lease together.
- the things that has made this house "legendary" in a sense is that despite the fact that none of the original members still live there, other guys in the same social circle do and the "spirit" is still there and kicking. Make sure you have other people besides you in your social circle to pass it on to when you're done school.
- as for leases, I think they are all on the lease separately and they certainly don't update the lease as soon as someone moves in or out. There is a permanent "squatter" room for the friend who has no job/money/place to go, whoever that is at the moment. Can't squat for too long though, and you have to contribute in the form of cleaning and groceries, usually.
Done right, this can be amazing. It will be kind of like a family home, a sweet hang out spot, a bumping party house, everything you want. Open, honest communication, good fixit skills, and good friends are important to getting there though.
posted by hepta at 7:09 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here's a crazy thought. Try to act like a normal adult (which you are) who doesn't consider his home to be a war zone! This way you won't have to worry about property damage, and the little wear and tear you do cause will be taken care of by the landlord. You'll probably end up attracting more girls in the process and only make your house THE party spot since you kept it clean and not like a gorilla pen that hadn't been cleaned in several days.
posted by darkgroove at 8:43 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by darkgroove at 8:43 PM on May 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
In many college towns, this is now illegal. Local zoning rules say that no more than a set number of unrelated people can live in a house together. For example, Athens, GA and Chapel Hill, NC. So, I would check that out first, for your town. If it is illegal, and you find an unscrupulous landlord willing to rent to you anyway, but you might find yourself evicted in the middle of the school year if the neighbors complain to the right people.
This is mad easy to get around. I lived in a six-bedroom house in Chapel Hill- no, sorry, of course, it was four bedrooms and two 'offices.' Offices with closets.
The catch is that only four people (or whatever the law is) can actually be on the lease in such situations, which makes it a very bad idea unless you COMPLETELY trust the non-lease people to hold up their end of the bargain.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:36 AM on May 19, 2011
This is mad easy to get around. I lived in a six-bedroom house in Chapel Hill- no, sorry, of course, it was four bedrooms and two 'offices.' Offices with closets.
The catch is that only four people (or whatever the law is) can actually be on the lease in such situations, which makes it a very bad idea unless you COMPLETELY trust the non-lease people to hold up their end of the bargain.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:36 AM on May 19, 2011
Ideally, we'd try to keep the havoc to a minimum, but there's no telling how well that can be contained once mob mentality and booze are involved. Conservatively, the assumption is there will be a fair bit of damage, and we've already considered whatever deposit on the house to be a sunk cost.
Mostly curious about the long-term consequences.
The long term consequences of having a party house can range from the benign "remember when joe did that flaming shot and lit the table on fire!" to the deadly serious. I was there that night, although thankfully I left before the bad stuff happened. That was a party house I had been to more than a few times, though.
My point is - you and your friends will be responsible for all that occurs in that house. A little oversight and supervision will go a long way towards keeping you and your guests safe and happy. The last thing you want to happen is something tragic and bad. Have fun and be stupid. Don't be too stupid, however.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:05 PM on May 19, 2011
Mostly curious about the long-term consequences.
The long term consequences of having a party house can range from the benign "remember when joe did that flaming shot and lit the table on fire!" to the deadly serious. I was there that night, although thankfully I left before the bad stuff happened. That was a party house I had been to more than a few times, though.
My point is - you and your friends will be responsible for all that occurs in that house. A little oversight and supervision will go a long way towards keeping you and your guests safe and happy. The last thing you want to happen is something tragic and bad. Have fun and be stupid. Don't be too stupid, however.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:05 PM on May 19, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Back in college, I lived in an apartment where the landlord, my roommates, and I drew up separate leases so that our parents could cosign just for our portion alone. None of the parents wanted to be responsible for the full rent, but were fine being the cosigner for just their own kid's portion. See if this is something a landlord would be ok drawing up for you guys. Include the don't be a douche clause when discussing it with your parents, and you should have better luck making the argument to them.
posted by phunniemee at 4:52 PM on May 18, 2011