How to turn down this introduction?

May 5, 2011 6:44 AM

Went to a "networking" event, realized after I walked into the bar that they meant beer and business cards networking, but stayed a few minutes anyway and met someone who offered to introduce me to someone who worked someplace that might be hiring Ruby development interns. Help me talk my way out of this without offending anyone, and help me avoid this problem next time.

My chief concern here is that I have a summer internship and then a year of school, so it'll be a minimum of fourteen months before I could work for these Ruby people. (I am not going to entertain part-time proposals because I have an independent study which I'd like to turn into a thesis, and that will consume my spare time.)

If business introductions work anything like normal people introductions, this fellow whom I've only known fifteen minutes is not going to look good to his friend at the place when it turns out I applied for an internship with no intention of working for them for 14 months.

I'm all ready to send him a polite email "great to meet you, I'd be really interested to hear more about this Ruby shop [this is true] but I want to make sure you know I'm not going to be on the job market for at least a year, not even this summer". The one thing holding me back is this answer to a recent AskMe. Would it actually be rude for me to turn down this introduction, according to whatever etiquette applies here?

More generally, what etiquette does apply here? There's lots on the internet about this networking business generally, and all of it insists that I can't avoid networking forever, but what I've read seems written for established professionals who have jobs and projects and contacts. I'm not sure what would be expected of an undergrad who just wants to hear about cool technical stuff.

posted by d. z. wang to Work & Money (15 answers total)

You're not going to offend anyone by saying that you're not available, unless you explicitly said that you were.

Just say that it was good to meet people in the industry and that, although you're not available to work any time soon because of work, you'd like to know what is generally expected of interns at a company like that so you can prepare when you are available.

To avoid this in the future, simply say you're not available to work as soon as someone mentions introducing hiring managers.
posted by ignignokt at 6:58 AM on May 5, 2011 [2 favorites]

You're in good shape; when you finally do become available and let them know about it, they'll be like, "Oh yeah, that guy -- we liked that guy!"

So try not to overthink it, you haven't put anyone out.
posted by hermitosis at 7:02 AM on May 5, 2011 [2 favorites]

I am not going to entertain part-time proposals because I have an independent study which I'd like to turn into a thesis, and that will consume my spare time.

I think you just answered your dilemma right there.

The decent response would be "It was great to meet you the other day and even though I'm potentially interested in a Ruby internship, my focus at the moment is on other pursuits and at present my availability is minimal. thanks again, D. Z. Wang."

At the most you might hear back from them as an acknowledgement.

Just an aside, while business contacts are a good thing, they are by no means even remotely as complicated, sincere or interesting as social contacts. It's all talk until something gets sold and then the dance with many multiples of partners starts all over again. Whomever this person is you spoke with probably doesn't even remember your name and their contact probably doesn't even remember theirs. One part of the dance is telling a prospect how important you are and offering to introduce them to other VIP's in order to impress. It's kind of a lame form of name-dropping.

Also, there are networking events in any city every damn night of the week. After attending three or four, you'll start bumping into the same people and will be able to discern who's important enough to take seriously and who the dreamers are.
posted by jsavimbi at 7:02 AM on May 5, 2011 [2 favorites]

What's the problem? He wants to introduce you to someone who might be hiring. This is not a problem to avoid, this is what networking IS. Simply write the email you planned - "great to meet you, etc etc I'm not going to be on the job market for at least a year, but I'd definitely like to stay on your radar. I really appreciate your offer to introduce me to hiring managers and I'd love to continue to meet and learn from anyone you think would be able to point me in the right direction."

You don't network when you NEED something. You network before you need it so when you ask for a favor, it doesn't feel like a huge imposition because they know you. You don't need a job right away, but you do want to meet as many people who are of the hiring sort between now and when you graduate - get to know them, what their companies are about, and by the time you graduate they KNOW you and you are top of mind.

Etiquette demands that you gratefully acknowledge those who help you or introduce you to new people. It does NOT demand that you accept every job offer extended or that you imagine they are hoping to offer you except they don't know your unavailable. And you don't even have an offer! Dude, meet as many people as you can, be up front about your timing, and impress upon them that you are gonna be one smart cookie to look out for in a year.
posted by sestaaak at 7:04 AM on May 5, 2011 [20 favorites]

There is no problem here other than you overthinking this.

Tellthis person you are too busy at present, but make a point of staying in touch with him.
posted by dfriedman at 7:50 AM on May 5, 2011

sestaaak: "You don't network when you NEED something. You network before you need it so when you ask for a favor, it doesn't feel like a huge imposition because they know you. You don't need a job right away, but you do want to meet as many people who are of the hiring sort between now and when you graduate - get to know them, what their companies are about, and by the time you graduate they KNOW you and you are top of mind."

Exactly. In your position, never turn down an opportunity to meet someone who is creating jobs in your industry. Clarify your situation (not available for hire when they want), but see if you can get an informational interview anyway. Be the #1 candidate for the job, even if you're not directly interviewing for it. Follow up down the road, it'll be worth it.
posted by mkultra at 8:02 AM on May 5, 2011 [1 favorite]

Yeah. You haven't promised these people anything and they are aware of that. If you're interested in the future, see where the conversation leads. Be upfront about your situation and you have nothing to worry about.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 8:34 AM on May 5, 2011

I'd go a step further. Tell him you're not going to be available for a year or so, but that you'd love to have any conversations about how to position yourself when that time comes, and are totally interested in having a casual lunch in the near future.

As everyone else here is saying, effective networking isn't about "I need a job", networking is about "ooh, cool, what are you up to? That looks like fun!"
posted by straw at 8:36 AM on May 5, 2011 [1 favorite]

And you know--you can make up your own cards, which can be very useful. In my world (film/TV) even interns have cards.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:23 AM on May 5, 2011

sestaaak is really, really right here. Can you explain further what you perceive the problem to be? You are making industry contacts, even before you graduate and even with your plate full, internship-wise. It sounds like you're in a great position, but are seeing it as bad for some reason.

Maybe stop by your career services office to discuss networking etiquette, and just generally how to proceed in situations like this?
posted by rkent at 9:23 AM on May 5, 2011

Response by poster: I suppose it's a matter of expectation. I thought I was signing up to hear about cool networking techniques, networking like Ethernet and such, and then realized I was just going to talk to some people about whatever they were doing at the moment, and then somehow instead found myself being offered an introduction to an internship I don't actually want to apply for. And just when I was about to tell this person I was only asking for curiosity's sake, I found this AskMe thread which seemed to suggest that this would be ill-advised.

sestaaak: "It [Etiquette] does NOT demand that you accept every job offer extended or that you imagine they are hoping to offer you except they don't know your unavailable. And you don't even have an offer!"

It seems somehow disingenuous to wait until they make me an offer to reveal that I was never on the market. Is this actually condoned nowadays, to apply for things you know you won't accept?

But you've all be very helpful. I'm going to tell this person that I'd love the introduction, as long as everyone understands it's just idle curiosity, and that I'd totally understand if that wasn't what he thought his friend was looking for right now. Thanks!
posted by d. z. wang at 10:44 AM on May 5, 2011 [1 favorite]

But you are on the market. You are in the long game market and that is something you can and should explicitly say. You are literally not available right now but the whole point of going to school and graduating is to become the most available and attractive candidate for hire you can possibly be. Don't get so literal that you lose sight of the end goal.

No one is going to "make you an offer" before realizing that you aren't actually available. Offers aren't tiger traps you fall into with no warning; these are conversations that you're going to have where you have opportunities to offer some information before they spring an internship on you.

Presumably you meet a person, tell them your background, bring up your training and your hopes for the future and ask for their advice, and they are professional enough to not drag you into an internship or get offended when it turns out you actually have some school obligations to tend to first.

And for heaven's sake please don't tell anyone you want to talk to them out of "idle curiosity." You are interested in "building a foundation for your future and want to learn as much as you can."
posted by sestaaak at 10:58 AM on May 5, 2011 [2 favorites]

If someone wants to introduce you to someone, then go ahead and get introduced. There's zero harm in that, just make sure that everyone knows you're not looking for a job up front.
posted by empath at 11:39 AM on May 5, 2011

d. z. wang: "I suppose it's a matter of expectation. I thought I was signing up to hear about cool networking techniques, networking like Ethernet and such, and then realized I was just going to talk to some people about whatever they were doing at the moment, and then somehow instead found myself being offered an introduction to an internship I don't actually want to apply for.

I wouldn't be repeating this "I thought you meant networking with TCP/IP" story to employers and industry contacts.

My advice: you have an existing arrangement, but that doesn't mean you're not open to alternatives. They just have to be clearly better than what you've got now: a summer internship and a final year of school with a sweet thesis project. If they can offer something you think is better than that, wouldn't you by definition take it? I mean, perhaps you take a semester co-op for credit and graduate a semester later than anticipated with two employer contacts lined up. Is that so terrible?

So talk, make friends and contacts within the organization. Keep their contact info so when you are looking for a job, you've got someone you can directly write to / email. Make your current situation clear, but let them decide there's nothing to be done for 14 months.
posted by pwnguin at 6:47 AM on May 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I would encourage you to step out of your own perspective for just a moment and consider it from the other party's perspective.

You are thinking that you are worthless to the hiring party because you won't be on the market for 14 months, and because you might not be interested in a Ruby development internship either now or then.

But that isn't true. People who hire developers often have a longer time window than 14 months. They may also be looking for other things. Even if you're never going to be the person they want to hire, just because of the environment you're in you may know the person they eventually want to hire. The hiring party gets a great value just from meeting you, knowing you, being in touch with you, even if they don't hire you now or ever.

That's what 'networking' is and it's important for career success. As you pointed out, in networking expectation management is important so you don't come off as a flake. But "idle curiosity" isn't the right phrase to frame it; the way that sestaaak phrased it above is exactly the correct way to frame it.

Sestaaak must be an old pro at this stuff. Probably has a good job too, and helps his friends get good jobs when they need them. That's who you want to be once you're not in school any more.
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Sockpuppetry at 8:45 AM on May 6, 2011