an apopogy for the unforgivable
April 29, 2011 5:58 AM   Subscribe

I've been invited to a wedding where I'm only going to know a couple of guests. One of them is a woman who has every right to hate my guts. Help me navigate this.

We knew each other in college, and after graduation we had a one night stand. That was all she wanted, but I didn't get the memo.

My memory is poor about how this came about, but she invited me to visit her in her town some time after (a year later? More?). She made it clear enough this was just as friends. I very aggressively pursued anyway, and crossed many lines in doing so*. Somehow I recovered my senses in time to salvage the last day of the visit, but not surprisingly we haven't spoken since.

The bride knows none of this and is likely to seat us together.

I'm now in my late thirties with a family. (They won't be in attendance). I don't know anything about what life has brought her. She may be over the event but she has every right not to be. My goal is to at least give her the opportunity to avoid me, but hopefully make amends and be able to catch up as old friends.

Do I...

1. Tell the bride to check with her before seating us together?

2. Attempt to email her and apologize in advance?

3. Just go and let the chips fall where they may?

... Or something else?

* I climbed into her bed unbidden and copped a feel before figuring out how way over the line I was. Yeah, I'd clock that schmuck too.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (46 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
Here's the thing to keep in mind: while this is an uncomfortable situation for both of you, it is, what, 3-4 hours out of your lives? You are both adults; you can handle it.

Let her bring it up with the bride if she wants to move tables, not you. Apologize to her when you see her, and then leave it alone. Take your cue from her - if she's willing to engage in small talk, do so, and if she ignores you, accept it gracefully. Ultimately this is the bride and groom's big day and you're there to support them. The rest of the stuff can be put aside for the evening.
posted by widdershins at 6:05 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

This happened a life time ago! Don't say anything, act normal and pleasant, and have a good time. If she is still harboring a hatred for you after all this time, I would be surprised. She probably either just slightly dislikes you or is ambivalent. Let it go.
posted by katypickle at 6:11 AM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]

I want to say this before trying to answer this question:
You sexually assaulted her when you climbed into bed and grabbed her breast.

You can't know how she feels about this now. It is possible that for her this is very much in the past but it is also possible for her that it is very much still present. The best thing to do is to assume that she is still affected by your actions.

Do you have to go to the wedding?
Are you close enough to the bride to tell her that you and collegeperson shouldn't be seated together?
Are you willing to admit to the bride what happened?
posted by sciencegeek at 6:18 AM on April 29, 2011 [6 favorites]

It's so hard to get a read on what really happened with questions like this, so forgive me if I'm exaggerating the seriousness of what you did, but groping someone against their will sounds like a form of sexual assault to me. Normally I would agree with the "you should both just be adults and deal with it" advice, but if I'm not misreading the situation I think you are missing an option from your list of possibilities: make your excuses and stay home.

As the first poster noted, this shouldn't become a problem the bride and groom have to deal with - but neither do I think this woman should have to deal with memories of your "aggressive" pursuit or feel threatened in any way (even if you know you're no longer a threat), especially at an event like this. Just stay home.
posted by DingoMutt at 6:21 AM on April 29, 2011 [8 favorites]

She's probably over it. But...

1. Tell the bride to check with her before seating us together?

Nope. You can't alter their wedding arrangements; guests don't get to make demands or requests.

2. Attempt to email her and apologize in advance?

No; this is going to make the elephant in the room even bigger and probably look fake. You're saying you're sorry so long after the fact and only so you're not uncomfortable during a social engagement.

Consider not going. If you do, say hello, be polite and stay away. If she wants to interact with you, she will.
posted by spaltavian at 6:23 AM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]

When you say you "salvaged the last day of the visit", do you mean you apologized and she accepted? If so, just go and act like an adult. This is what, nearly 20 years ago now?
posted by apparently at 6:35 AM on April 29, 2011 [17 favorites]

Just go. You clearly feel bad about this, and it seems like what happened was more an error in judgment rather than committing outright sexual assault. You had been given the green light, and you just didn't see the red light. And once you saw that your advance was unwelcome, you were immediately remorseful. Humans screw up. Don't be too hard on yourself.
posted by pwally at 6:39 AM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]

Send your sincerest regrets that you wont be in attendance.
posted by jph at 6:39 AM on April 29, 2011

Do you have a way of contacting this woman? The range of responses here proves that you have no idea of how she's processed that event over the past two decades. She might still look back on that night in anger, she might be completely over it. Write her, if you can, and ask her how she'd feel hanging out with you in close vicinity.

Some people really might shrug off that event as just a guy being a jerk, some people might feel traumatized and upset even after many years, and seeing the person again might trigger really bad feelings. You simply won't know how she'll react until you talk to her.

Don't talk about it to the bride, it's not her problem.
posted by Viola at 6:40 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

crawfo: "it gives the appearance that you are ok with what you did, even if you are not."

so because he did something stupid to this woman 15 years ago, he should not go to a 3rd parties wedding? What, he should hide under a rock forever, or commit seppuku for this?

OP, I vote #3. If you recovered with the woman during your visit to salvage the last day, it will be fine. If you get a chance (and some privacy), you can apologize again for what you did. If not, be pleasant, but not overbearing. If she doesn't want to speak with you, don't force it. But if she says hello, then take the chance to catch up with her. She slept with you, and thus probably liked you somewhat at some time, so hopefully those warm fuzzy feelings overshadow any negative ones she has from the incident.
posted by I am the Walrus at 6:42 AM on April 29, 2011 [9 favorites]

If you managed to salvage the visit with her after copping a feel uninvited, then I would go to the wedding, make polite small talk if required, and leave as early as possible after the toasts/dinner/first dance. That way she is free to enjoy the remainder of the evening and you are still able to share in the special day of your friends. Don't make mountains out of molehills.
posted by pink candy floss at 6:44 AM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

Go. Be proactive about approaching your friend at the beginning of the event and assuring her that you know what a schmuck you acted like, you have grown up considerably since then, and your purpose in being there is to see the bride and groom while doing your best not to make her (your friend) uncomfortable. Tell her that you wanted to apologize right away, before she had a chance to worry, and you now plan on making yourself scarce and not making her deal with you. Then go away. You say you'll probably be at the same table for dinner; if she doesn't react well to your apology, then skip dinner. Leave the building and pick up a burger someplace, and if anybody asks you have a headache. Yes, you have to inconvenience yourself if she says so. Yes, you have to do this cheerfully and thoroughly and not say why.
On the other hand, if she reacts well to your apology (as is likely if you actually parted on okayish terms last time you saw her) then it's still not okay to sit next to her and talk to her all evening, unless she grabs you by the wrist and puts you in the chair next to her. So swing by the table you've been assigned to, and arrange the placecards to make sure you're sitting 3 places away from her. Not next to her. Not across the giant round table from her where even though she can't hear you she has to look at you. One couple in between you.
Now keep your mouth shut. Don't try to convince her you've changed, don't keep apologizing, don't try to demonstrate what a fun funny charming and harmless guy you are. Chat quietly with the people near you, and try not to feel like you're onstage.
posted by aimedwander at 6:55 AM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]

I climbed into her bed unbidden and copped a feel before figuring out how way over the line I was.

you sexually assaulted this woman.

It sounds like the OP made a serious error in judgment, realized it almost immediately, and apologized for it. There's a big difference between making an unwanted advance and then backing off when you realize you misread the situation and making an unwanted advance when you know that it's unwanted and you don't care. The OP is not trying to defend his actions, but saying that he has a lifelong obligation to avoid this woman because of his heinous actions is going way too far. It does not sound to me like he traumatized this woman.

OP, go to the wedding, and when you take your seats at the table make an effort not to sit next to her. (When you say "seat us together," do you mean at the same table or are there actual assigned seats?) Let her say hi to you first, so that if she wants to totally ignore you she can. Be polite, try to talk to other guests, and if she wants to talk you can say how sorry you still are about your actions 15 years ago and you learned a valuable lesson. Everyone makes mistakes. Life goes on.
posted by Dasein at 6:57 AM on April 29, 2011 [20 favorites]

Look, we don't really know what happened between these two people. Even the Asker doesn't really know how the woman in question interpreted what happened -- just because he "salvaged the last day of the visit", she might have accepted his apology and put it behind her, or she might have just been just playing nice to get him the fuck out of her life.

If it were me, I would find some excuse not avoid the wedding, as I would not want to deal with that possible uncomfortableness. If you do go, I would suggest not approaching or addressing this woman until she makes the first move. Don't actively ignore her, but don't go up and say Hi. Let her decide what your interactions will be like.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:02 AM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

Do not do not do not dump this on the bride; she'll have enough to think about on her day without dealing with your problems.
posted by ook at 7:05 AM on April 29, 2011 [12 favorites]

I've been a woman in this situation before and fwiw I remember it more as an embarrassing "Boy did someone make a stupid mistake" rather than sexual assault. If it came down as I picture it and as in the case I remember it is less a threatening situation than an over the top embarrassing flop where it is almost impossible to regain equilibrium.

If it really was just stupid then, it becomes the thing that can never be mentioned now. Go, be polite, give this woman lots of space, but also be aware she may have tried to put it out of her mind entirely so do not bring it up. If you adequately apologized then there is no need to revisit..
posted by readery at 7:10 AM on April 29, 2011 [20 favorites]

It is almost always a good idea to apologize! Get her number or email and send her a message before the wedding.
posted by yarly at 7:13 AM on April 29, 2011

Is the wedding close enough that you could just go to the ceremony, and not the reception? The important thing you're celebrating is the marriage of your friends, not buffet food, the hokey pokey and the garter toss.

Go, support your friends in their marriage, leave a gift with someone trustworthy, and go back to your own family and enjoy a stress and drama free evening.
posted by librarianamy at 7:23 AM on April 29, 2011

Like someone above said, there is a huge difference between someone who KNOWS his advances are unwanted yet persists, and you, who maybe just were being an oblivious doofus and hopefully you apologized and did actually "salvage that last day" as you claim, so don't let the "sexual assault" train on this thread bog you down in more shame about what happened several years ago.

That said, you need to think back to how you left things with this woman and figure out if she seemed genuinely OK and forgiving that day back then or if there is any possibility she was hurt deeper than you realize and just being civil to you. If you think there's a chance she DOES feel hurt/assaulted/whatever you might want to avoid the event, BUT...

I think it sounds milder than that and you deserve to go to the wedding of your friend. I would recommend not cornering her to apologize but let her engage you if she feels like it. Don't ignore her completely (that's weird), you know, make eye contact or smile if you see her and if she approaches you, talk or apologize or whatever seems appropriate. If you end up seated together and you think she'll be uncomfortable, just forgo dinner and work the room, go stand by the bar, whatever, people are always milling around at weddings. Hopefully it's a buffet!! Or just go to the ceremony if you think this "milling around" option will be awkward, like if it's a sit-down/waiter-style meal. You won't have to sit by her there and you can pay your respects to the couple.
posted by dahliachewswell at 7:27 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

I come down on the side of hey, you aren't a serial rapist, but someone who seriously misread signals, so go to the wedding and let her determine the extent of your interactions.

DO let us know what happens, though. When is the event?
posted by zachawry at 7:35 AM on April 29, 2011

I don't think this is grounds to not show up, but since you know there's an issue, it's on you to try to nip this plan in the bud. What the issue is exactly, is none of the bride's beeswax.

I think I would tell the bride, unspecifically, that the seating needs to be jiggered. Basically, "you know, Bride, that's really thoughtful of you to want to put me with someone I know. I don't think it's a good idea, though: There's some interpersonal issues there, and I think things would be more comfortable, actually, if we weren't thrown together all night. I hope that isn't too inconvenient, but really, it would be for the best." Then deflect any inquiries regarding what & why.
posted by Ys at 7:42 AM on April 29, 2011

I can't speak for this woman or how she feels, but if I were the grope-ee, I would be fine with you being there. In my mind, you would approach me with a sheepish, man-I'm-a-douchebag look on your face to apologize, I'd wave you off and say "don't worry about it," and then I'd just avoid you the rest of the evening.

I think you should go.
posted by phunniemee at 7:52 AM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]

Another vote for not involving the bride whatsoever. This is Not Her Problem and if one of my wedding guests had asked to be reseated because he'd done something stupid 15 years ago, I'd be uninviting him. Brides have enough decision-making and drama to deal with.

I vote for going and not initiating contact with the woman. Hopefully you've gotten better at reading signals over the last 2 decades, but just in case, err on the side of "she never wants to talk to me again." If she's attending the wedding with an SO, I'd double this advice. Her SO may not know anything about this, and frankly if I found out someone tried to take advantage of my SO years ago, I'd be furiously angry even if my SO was over it.
posted by desjardins at 8:08 AM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

Mod note: folks, you seriously need to back off. OP knows what they did was inappropriate and they are trying to figure out this wedding situation - Go to MeTa if you need to.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:20 AM on April 29, 2011 [4 favorites]

This is what bridesmaids are for. Do you know any of them? You do not need to give details but just say because of a "situation" in your youth you may make a guest uncomfortable at the wedding. Bridesmaids are supposed to shield the bride from this sort of thing. So you can ask a bridesmaid to make sure you two aren't seated together. And also you can ask if you can pass an apology to her (through the bridesmaid), no details please. And if you did that you could suss out the situation and if it comes back to the bridesmaid "that bastard is going to the wedding!?" Then, to be a gentleman, you should not attend the wedding. But she will probably say "We were kids! Apology accepted!"
posted by cda at 8:22 AM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

It's a good sign that you still feel embarrassed and bad about it. Still, it was a long time ago, so there's no reason to dwell upon it and live in the past. Smile, be polite and look for her social cues. If she wants to say hello, say hello. If she wants to avoid you, then do that. Say nothing bad about her, even if asked.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:33 AM on April 29, 2011

Facebook/email her.

"Hey X, It was hard for me to build up the courage to write this email, but I wanted to let you know how very sorry I am for the events that took place in the Summer of 1998. I think about it and you often and truly regret my piggish behavior. Now that I am a husband and father (of a daughter?), I feel even worse about it.

I want to let you know that I have also been invited to Steve and Susie's wedding and plan to attend, but I want to assure you that I will take all steps possible to make the event less awkward for you.

I hope that you understand.

posted by k8t at 8:43 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

Go to the wedding, act like yourself, and don't bring up the incident at all. Ask her how life has been treating her, like you would with any old college friend with whom you haven't kept in touch. It's a few hours of feigned normality on both your parts for the sake of the bride and groom.

If she brings it up to you (which she won't), then apologize. If she acts weird (which she probably won't), then just ignore it and keep on acting normal.

The "incident" may be a bigger deal to you than it is to her. Years ago, a male friend did the same thing to me that you did to her, and it wouldn't even cross my mind if I saw him again. It's only crossing my mind now because of this question. I'm not saying that you should make any assumptions about how she feels about it, just an anecdote to counter some of the hysteria I see in this thread from other commenters.
posted by amro at 8:53 AM on April 29, 2011 [3 favorites]

I had a guy do this exact thing once! If I ran into him at a wedding, what *I* would want is for him to look guilty but not say anything. But that's what I would want. I agree that contacting a bridesmaid or maid of honor would be a good way to go.

The biggest thing, though, that I'd recommend is to send her an apology AFTER the wedding. "Hi, I acted like a GIANT DOUCHE years ago. I'm really sorry." That way it won't be a Thing at the wedding, but you can still do the right thing.
posted by KathrynT at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

Seconding readery. If you believe you apologized at the time in no uncertain terms and showed genuine remorse and she accepted your apology, then bringing this up again will only be awkward and make for an uncomfortable evening for you both.

Also, just as you're aware that you're being seated next to her, so, chances are, is she. If that really bothers her I'm sure she'll have made arrangements to switch seats by now.

When you get there follow her cues: if she's cold, don't impose your company on her in any way. If she appears to be over the event of decades ago, then it's a nice opportunity to catch up.

Good luck!
posted by Dragonness at 9:15 AM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

Don't say ANYTHING to her about it. You will just make her feel uncomfortable. Once you say something she can't pretend she forgot about it and neither can you. She's not going to confront you about it. Worst she'll do is talk about you behind your back and point. Big deal.

You go there, you have a good time. You don't tell the bride or bridesmaid that you want your seat switched, because a) you're not five years old, and b) that gossip is juicy and it's going to spread through and add unnecessary drama to the whole event.

You don't know whether she feels uncomfortable around you or not at this point in time, so you avoid her at the wedding. If she has you in creeper status in her mind and you approach her, it will not end well. Even if it did end well, you don't gain anything of value from the interaction. It's a lose-lose.
posted by banished at 9:19 AM on April 29, 2011

My wedding was relatively small, and the planning was a giant headache and the guest list was doubly so. But, as a former bride, if one of my guests had sent me a short email saying, "I don't want to make this a big deal for you, but I think So-and-So will have a better time at your wedding if she doesn't have to sit with me," I would have regarded it as surprising but utterly reasonable, and swapped out the seating appropriately. Unless the wedding is, like, tomorrow, or it's 10 people total, or she's done something incredibly fancy with the seating cards, this will not take a lot of time.

There's enough background missing to the story that I don't know if just not going is a more appropriate choice. If you have a very trusted confidante, to whom you feel confident relating all particulars, you might run it by her. I recognize that takes a lot of courage.
posted by endless_forms at 9:27 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

You do not need to give details but just say because of a "situation" in your youth you may make a guest uncomfortable at the wedding

I like the bridesmaid route. I don't see anything wrong with saying "We dated, and broke up on not-great terms," especially since it's more or less the truth. It's a totally reasonable request to make, and doesn't leave the bride/bridesmaids endlessly speculating about what "The Incident" was.

When you get to the wedding, smile and say hi. The remainder of your interactions with her for the evening should be determined by her reaction to this initial greeting (Although evidently, reading this woman's body language is not one of your strongest suits, so tread lightly.) Who knows. She might feel bad about leading you on.
posted by schmod at 9:45 AM on April 29, 2011

Another woman who's been there chiming in to say I wouldn't have a problem with being seated at the same table as the guy. A brief acknowledgment of and apology for what he did would be nice. (Then again, I never got one in the first place.)

I'd prefer something quick, quiet and -- most importantly -- nothing puts any onus on me to comfort or absolve you. So no long face, no exaggerated awkwardness, no extra attention from him either before or after the apology, no rehashing of the incident or the past, no profusion of "I was such a bad guy," or "Are we ok now?" In other words, it's not about you. I would be comfortable with something short and sweet, like "I was an absolute jerk to you that night. I crossed a boundary and I'm really sorry. I apologize." Once the exchange is over, make an excuse to go away (to the bar, the bathroom, whatever) and then drop the subject completely.

If I were you, I would just go to the wedding and try to gauge her reaction to your presence for an appropriate time to apologize. I wouldn't want an email ahead of time because that would mean dealing with it twice: the email AND possible follow-up in person. I absolutely wouldn't bring this up to the bride.
posted by Majorita at 9:53 AM on April 29, 2011 [2 favorites]

Should have previewed: I respectfully disagree with telling ANYONE that you "dated" this woman. If that got back to me, I'd think you were still a psycho lacking the capacity to fully understand what really happened.
posted by Majorita at 9:56 AM on April 29, 2011 [7 favorites]

I like k8t's suggestion for an email. However, I would probably offer to this woman that you're willing to not go if it makes her uncomfortable. I realize that, yadda yadda yadda, celebrating the bride's day, but the important thing here is to not make someone you sexually assaulted (and yeah, you did, even if I think it's clear you've grown and owned up to it), feel uncomfortable. And that might include not attending.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:45 AM on April 29, 2011

I agree with the posters saying not to lay any of this on the bride at all. But consider, as a counterpoint to the "you shouldn't go" crowd, that you not going is also laying this on the bride in a fashion, who wants a good turnout of her friends. So I would go, not say anything unless it is brought up, and don't push it. If the other person has a problem with you, make yourself scarce and avoid a scene.
posted by norm at 11:20 AM on April 29, 2011

This is what bridesmaids are for. Do you know any of them? You do not need to give details but just say because of a "situation" in your youth you may make a guest uncomfortable at the wedding. Bridesmaids are supposed to shield the bride from this sort of thing. So you can ask a bridesmaid to make sure you two aren't seated together.

If you tell a bridesmaid that you can't sit next to so-and-so, the entire wedding party and possibly everyone at the wedding will know that you made such a request. Speculation will be rampant. You should not do this.

You should contact the woman in advance and ask her what she wants you to do.
posted by winna at 11:53 AM on April 29, 2011

You need to get over yourself here. You're just not that important.

If you are embarrassed and don't want to sit next to her, then tell a bridesmaid.

If she thinks you're a disgusting piece of filth and doesn't want to sit next to you, she can tell a bridesmaid.

The idea that you are such an important figure in this woman's life that she is incapable of making rational decisions about you fifteen years later is about as egotistical a stance as I've ever seen. She's a grown-up, she can arrange things however she likes.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:24 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

Dang, Tell Me No Lies. You weren't pulling any punches there!

Well, you've sure had an array of responses, OP. I guess my advice as a woman who has also had a similar embarrassing incident happen in the past would be: go, be polite, don't bring it up. If you guys get along like a house on fire, maybe after a couple of glasses of wine you could pleasantly say, "You know, I still feel bad for that incident back in '91 (or whatever)."

If it seems like she doesn't want to talk to you, then, obviously, respect that. But if I were to put money on it, given how you've described the situation, I bet it won't be an issue at all.
posted by jess at 1:59 PM on April 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

Just go and say nothing.

She doesn't hate your guts.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:55 PM on April 29, 2011

I don't understand the posters suggesting that you shouldn't bother the bride with this. It's not about you, or about the woman in question, it's about the couple getting married. They want their wedding to go off without a hitch, and for all their friends and family to have a good time.

If there is any possibility that you'll be seated at the same table - because you're both friends from college or whatever, and if there's any possibility that it will be awkward or uncomfortable for either of you (and it sounds like that's a possibility), then make that known to the bride in your rsvp. A simple "you may not be aware that X and I had a bit of a fling and it didn't end well, so it might be good if we're not seated at the same table" will suffice. Table arrangements are done after the rsvps come in, not before, so there shouldn't be any problem with that. It might all be okay, but you don't know that - you're happy to deal with it, but you don't know how she'd feel if she ended up sitting next to you on a table. Far better that you're seated on different tables and then have an amicable conversation during the night than you end up seated next to her and it being uncomfortable... But definitely don't let this stop you going to the wedding!
posted by finding.perdita at 5:11 PM on April 29, 2011

Don't bring it up! And don't bother the bride!

Just go and act like an adult. If she brings it up, be polite, contrite, etc., and if need be spend your time talking with other people - but I doubt she'll bring it up.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:11 PM on April 29, 2011

Don't involve the bride or the wedding party. No need to skip the wedding.

When you see her, don't make a beeline for her to Have An Important Talk. I think she has the greater dibs on deciding how your presence will figure into her day. Last thing you want to be is presumptuous, considering the nature of your original offense. Bonus, she'll hopefully notice that you didn't turn out to be a creepo lout.

A little while later (but not too late in the event), look for an opportune time to just briefly, discreetly, and humbly say something like "Hey, I just wanted to apologize for being such a jerk all those years ago. I grew up, got married, have a family, but I'm still ashamed of that incident. Best wishes to you. I hope you're well, and that you're enjoying the wedding."
posted by desuetude at 10:29 PM on April 29, 2011

"Hello Jane. I behaved appallingly to you, and I apologize. I hope life is treating you well." Then you leave the rest up to her.
posted by theora55 at 2:15 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]

if there's any way you can avoid going, don't go. You don't mention your relationship to the wedding party but unless it's family or someone who would really really really feel let down by your regrets and wedding gift in absentia, stay home.

I have to admit that this is coming from someone who thinks that weddings are pretty silly to begin with but from what I can tell, bringing external drama to a wedding isn't something that any bride and groom really want. You don't know how this person you had the misunderstanding with in the past is going to react to your presence and someone else's big life event isn't the place to find out.
posted by screamingnotlaughing at 12:24 AM on May 2, 2011

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